Super Joe - Interview with Joe Harriger

Foreign welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. Certainly an honor and privilege to have our fine listeners with us. And I have an exciting, exciting guest today that you'll get to meet Joe later. But we're going to call Joe Super Joe and you'll, you'll see why. But we're going to get to Joe Hager of VHD Insurance here in a little bit. He's our special guest and has a really empowering story to tell that I know will be impactful for agencies and for producers. And so excited to have have Joe on. So, Joe, before we get to the official welcome here, just hello, how are you doing there? Want to say hello to the audience?

Hello, audience. Doing great. Thanks for having me.

Good. Well, you're going to, again, you're going to learn a ton from Joe and Joe shared his story and with us with Sitkins. He's been involved with Sitkins for many years and was just kind of sharing his journey with us as a team and it just blew us away. And I thought we've got to have Joe on the show to be able to share some of this again. I know the impact it'll have on others. Before I get to get to Joe and ask him some, some questions and about his journey, just want to remind all of you that the purpose of the Agent Leader podcast is to help you as an agency leader and whatever your role is, to help you gain clarity, build consistency, and make a commitment to be your best version possible. And I'm guessing that best version possible may come up a little bit in our conversation with Joe today as well. Also, as a reminder, as we have released new programs for 2021, if you go to sitkins.com programs, you can learn all about the things that we're offering for our clients and attendees of different, different programs in 2021. A lot of excitement coming your way. So with that, I don't want you to wait any longer. I want to get over to Joe Harriger or as we're going to call him today, Super Joe. And Joe, again, thanks for, thanks for being with us today. And if you could just, first of all, maybe just give the some background on your current position, your role, the agency, all the basic stuff that we'll get out of the way here first.

Yeah, sure. So I've been with EHD since 1993 and we have four locations in Pennsylvania and we're about a 25, $26 million commission revenue shop. And this Year. It's kind of a cool year because we're celebrating our 125th year anniversary as an agency, as an independent agency, and we're very proud of that and we want to keep a good thing going. I started my journey as a producer and I was. It's basically twofold, about 14 years as a producer and another 14 years as a branch manager and ultimately into the executive leadership team and as a current position of senior vp.

Very good, Joe. Just real quick too, for the audience sake, you know, just to give an idea of, you know, what kind of book do you currently have? One thing that we talk about a lot, and you know, this, Joe, is just the, the average, even account size. People just have an idea of what, what kind of accounts that you work on. What does it look like for you?

Well, for me it really was, that was the, the defining moment when I went to the, the first Sitkins camp back in, I guess it was about 97. I would thought I was on my way, you know, Super Joe's rocking and rolling big book of business of $200,000. And the first thing I realized with the very first camp, there were four camps throughout the year, every quarter back then. And the first thing I realized was my minimum account size was not very good. So the one thing I did when I came back, took the leap of faith from those four camps is I promised myself to only work on commission revenue accounts of 25,000 in commission and above. And prior to that, the four years to get to 200,000, I didn't have any accounts that I wrote at $25,000. So that was a leap of faith. Did a little bit of the trade down that Roger talks about in his camps and worked on really just the good stuff, the stuff that paid me and the stuff that paid the agency. So that year was a pretty good year. And I wrote about 150,000 in new business. And so off I was one year after joining the Sickens camp, being a producer for four years, building the book of business to 200,000 and one year later after those camps almost doubled that book of business. And ultimately I got my book of business to about a million dollars. And that probably represented about 40 to 50 accounts. And I was very proud of that because it was consistent performance and my book grew every year throughout those 14 years.

Wow. You know, as you're saying that just a couple of things stand out, Joe. And again, you've, you've heard this at different camps, but things to share with the audience. They always say, you know, it's really hard to be a million dollar producer writing a thousand dollar accounts. And I think, you know, looking back, you said 97. You know, the kind of that we call the blinding flash of the obvious is the fact that, wait a second, if I'm gonna make some revenue and really, you know, get some traction, so to speak, in this business, I've got to be more intentional about building the book of business that I want to build and having a model that I want. And I think that's certainly one of the great things about this business is that you get to get to create your model. Joe, just again, reading through your story and again, you could share whatever it is that you want because you have so many things of wisdom to share with this group. What have been, what kind of stands out to you? I mean, there's a lot of different principles and strategies that we talk about at Sitkins and our camps and you've applied maybe not all of them, but boy, it seems like most of them. Which principles, which strategies have really stood out to you and been most impactful for your business?

Yeah, I think if on the side of the producer hat, not management yet. Just talking a little bit about the producer hat. I was, I had a lot of relationships in the community and so it was fairly easy for me to get appointments. So as such, you know, for May, a success was just filling out a court applications. And in fact I would say I probably averaged somewhere around 35 submissions a year. And that was a big problem because there was really a lot of practice quoting. So I think the first BFO at the camp was, you know, npq. No, no, no practice quoting anymore. And the interesting thing about that was moving your minimum account size up to 25 and above and not practice quoting. My hit ratio went from, I would say a high of 35% in the first four years to a high of 75 or more consistent average of 75 to 80% hit ratio moving forward. And so that was a big deal. That really was eye awakening. The other thing was the trade downs. 8020. Get the smaller accounts to your special business unit or just concentrate on moving that account size up because that's really what's going to pay the agency and you the most amount of money. So the trade downs and letting go of those smaller accounts and giving them off, handing them off to a qualified team was really helpful. I also think that, you know, from 1997 to today, the one thing that Roger continuously, consistently and very concisely has preached to all of us is the 14 Rs. That's kind of the mission statement of, of the Sickens group that I always, that's the takeaway that I always remember and that's the referrals, relationships, retention and results. And so if you really concentrate on every day, starting your day to me with something sick and ized and you know, work towards really activity equals results and define your day to say, what am I going to do today that's going to generate one of those four R's and ultimately the most important one is results. And so that then as you start to make your way through your journey, you start to effectively manage your time and time management then becomes one of the most important things as you grow your book of business. So those were some really key takeaways for me and probably the one thing as a producer that I thought was kind of a gift and something that I recognized right away because, right, we go to all kinds of sales conferences. And so I had had the experience of going to several conferences. But Sitkins, you know, gives you a playbook. And really just like a lot of us enjoy sports, a great analogy is you have to learn the playbook whether you're playing football, basketball, whatever the sport may be. And if you can just perfect that playbook, you really have a great opportunity to succeed in this business.

Man, so many takeaways there, Joe. And for the audience, you know, again, hopefully you guys are taking notes here of what Joe's saying because this is just, you know, how he began to reshape, you know, his business and again, be proactive in it. And one of the things, I just want to highlight a couple things, Joe, and ask you a follow up question. But one of the things you said there in the middle was this idea of, and I'm going to say it different than what you did, but just being very focused on what it is that we're actually trying to accomplish for the day and for the week. And you mentioned the four Rs, you know, results, relationships, retention, referrals, and we hammer that home. A lot of people go, well, that's simple. Yeah, but the challenge that I see, and again, why you, Joe and other million dollar plus producers we work with is that they're focused and it's consistent focus. I've got to stay focused. And that word is used a lot, but how well do we actually do it? And the other part I want to ask, I'm guessing there's probably some people listening that are asking this question in their head. Okay, so you went to one of These camps, and you had a $200,000 book of business, and you decided you were going to write $25,000 minimum revenue account. How did you draw the line in the sand, so to speak? And how did you begin to say no? Because it's not like other opportunities didn't exist. How did you commit yourself? I guess that's a question I would have, too, Joe, on behalf of the audience, to say, listen, this is going to be my new model.

Sure. Well, I think sometimes it's for new producers, it's a little bit of a challenge because, you know, they want to write just something to impress the agencies that, you know, the agency that they're working for. And so you do have to, I think the first year or two, you have to, you know, try to create the ability to close some deals regardless of the size. But I think that. I think it was just the. The understanding and the blinding flash, the obvious, that if you start to put a pencil to your. Your goals and everybody. That's the other thing, you know, that I learned is you really got to have a plan. And we talk about it, but. But you have to do it. And, you know, let's just Suppose you had 10 really good, we call them future ideal clients FICs, and let's just suppose you had 10 really good FICs into 21, and you had a really conservative hit ratio of 50% and the average account size was 10,000. You're only going to write. With a 50% hit ratio, you're only going to write $50,000. I don't know what all the producers listening on this podcast, what their goals are, but our agency expectation is $100,000 in commission revenue on an annualized basis. And, oh, by the way, we had some compensation incentives tied to that $100,000 goal over the years. And one of the things was a trip. And if you produced 100,000 new business combined with referrals of 100,000, your total was 100,000 or more. You got to go on the trip. And I believe there was probably eight trips, and the only one I missed, I missed one year out of eight years. And so when I did that math of $10,000 accounts, which was typically what I was writing, and. And a fairly good hit ratio at 50%, I realized I was really only meeting the agency's expectation of 50,000 versus 100, and, you know, I wasn't also making the amount of money that I wanted to make. So you just have to commit to it. And, you know, when you have a playbook and there are plays that are working. It starts to give you confidence that, hey, I can write the $25,000 accounts just as easily as the $10,000 accounts. And that's the one thing I think that I just committed to that and, you know, never look back.

Yeah, it's as you're saying that, of course, I'm a big sports fan as well, Joe. And so I don't remember what game I was watching, but it was just recently about, you know, the offense kind of found the, you know, a weak link or found a play that was really, really working. And he's like, as, you know, this coach is just going to keep going back to it and, you know, and it works. And I think that's a lot of you're saying with the playbook is that as we always say, and you've heard us say this before, Joe, is that success leaves clues, just replicate them. And so often I see producers and agencies that something works and let's go try this. And they lose focus. And so I commend you. That's why you're Super Joe. You stay committed to the things that were getting you results. I want to ask a question around something you put in your, in your journey that you sent to us that, you know, your story, your Sitkins journey, you talked about, you know, one of the many acronyms or ideas we have is ME Inc. That you own your business as part of the agency, and you're part of a terrific agency. I mean, in fact, for the listeners, if you want to go back, on my podcast, we had John Miles doing a live interview with Roger. This has probably been a year and a half or so ago. You have to go back a little bit. But just an agency that. That does the things they said they were going to do, right? And that's. That's such a commitment. But part of that too, Joe, is just as individually as your ME Inc. And we always say, you know, as ME Inc. You're running your own company inside of WE Inc. Which is. Which is the agency. How had that philosophy of, you know, being that leader, owning your own company, how did that impact or work for you and your book of business?

Sure, I think that was a big deal. I think Roger could appreciate this. Everybody should be a CEO of a company at some point in time in their career. It really gives you a genuine appreciation of the challenges that you have. But the most important thing to me was as you grow your book of business with more and more and more clients, you tend to get bogged down or you can get bogged down with the service aspect of the business. And I always. One of the most defining moments was we had a group of the sales people in for, you know, one of our quarterly EHD sales meetings. And you know, one of the producers said, you know, I know I have to write more new business, but I just don't have any time. And I thought to myself, you know, here's a successful producer, maybe one that has plateaued a little bit. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, that's kind of ironic that, you know, that which we enjoy the most, which is playing the game of new business and that which we get paid the most by playing is writing new business. You don't have the time to do that. And I just, that stuck with me. And so what you basically have to do is trust your team, your teammates. And any good athletic team does that. They have trust in their entire organization. And so the, the ME Inc. Allows you to hand off and delegate some of the responsibilities. And guess what? Those account managers want that responsibility. They want that buy in your risk control department. They want to be deployed and go out there and really make EHD look really, really good. And so you, you, you tend to be the CEO of ME Inc. And let those people go out and do their jobs. And if you have the right team and we do here at ehd, then they're going to, they're going to make you look good and they're going to help you with your success. And back to that time management. You're going to be able to go out and do the things that you enjoy doing. And that which pays you and the agency the most to do.

I love that you just got to think like a leader. And I think, you know, so often we see that with, with producers and agencies. Well, you know, I'm doing my thing and what you said, Joe, and I'm taking notes here as you wrote, that is that, you know, just to take time of going, wait a second. My role here as a producer is to produce. And if I'm too busy to do that, I'm going to need to make some changes or I'm going to be at this level forever. Right? This is where I'm going to be. And I love the fact that you talked about it's gotta, it must take a team. You know, we talk a lot about high performance teams, which is, is takes work, right? You've got to coach and you've got to think about these things. And one other addition to that, Joe and I'm currently reading a book and the philosophy has been around for a while for from the Strategic Coach program and Roger spent years in that. I've gone through it as well from Dan Sullivan and what he always says Joe, is ask yourself the question who, not how. In many cases that the better question is who, who's the best person for this? Not how do I do it? And I think a lot of producers sometimes try to think, well I've got to do everything. No, what you have to do is the most important thing to get the result as you've already talked about and begin to think about how you can build a team. And every agency has different resources. We understand that. But how can I begin to build a team so that I am in my, you know, results area as much as possible. So thanks for sharing that Joe. It's powerful stuff. Let me ask this, you know, part of this. You mentioned some of the, the results you've had but I mean how have some of the learnings just impacted your results? Just, just long term and what does that look like?

Yeah, that's the one thing that I, I, you know when you look at the four Rs, everything kind of ties into the results. And you know, when I look back over the years I never would have thought, thought that those producer camps and all that investment of time and energy and effort would, I was hoping that it would improve my new business both in dollars and hit ratio which it did dramatically. I was hoping that it would grow my book of business so I could get the book validation as fast as possible. And it did that. But the ancillary benefits that I received from that is respect from our marketing department. You know, Roger talks about the top of stack submission toss and I went from not having really good quality submissions to having the best submissions and in the business. And so I started to get respect from the marketing department. I got it, I got respect from the insurance carriers. You know, in my, in my submissions I would say hey, here's an executive briefing, here's why we're going to write the account. Here's a summation of the loss ratios. Here's you know, some testimonials from industry practice group, industry leaders that are doing business with EH&D. All of that in my, in my submission. So I started to garner respect from the insurance companies, from the marketing department and then you know, from my peers here at EHD and ultimately, you know, I think that some of the other benefits was, were internal promotions. I was the recipient of some great promotions. And then freedom. Roger Talks about that all the time. You know, if you really work this process, the playbook, to perfection, you have freedom, you have financial freedom, and you have personal freedom. And ultimately the personal freedom was the best thing to me because I could spend time coaching my son. And I believe that if I was working somewhere else or if I was working the wrong way for another insurance agency, I don't think I would have been able to do that. So those were some of the benefits that I didn't foresee that just came as a result of working. Working the process, working the playbook.

Yeah, fantastic. It's just that freedom word. I love that. And you shared that. We've, we've talked about some of the recent workshops we've done, but it's fact for, for our elite producers in your organization has several, you know, younger people in there, part of the elite program that are really having some great success. That's one of the things we talked about earlier was the fact that you could either be trapped or you could be in the world of freedom. And I love that. Financial freedom, freedom and personal freedom. Because, hey, money is great. Don't get me wrong. I said, you know, I'm not going to turn down money, but it's what does it provide you the opportunity to do in your life? And that's what's important. So good, good stuff there. All right, Joe, so we've got, we've got a multitude of listeners. We've got agency owners, we've got sales leaders, we've got producers, we've got some service people all listening. So this is an important question. Are you ready for this? This is why you're stupid. This is why you're super. Joe. Okay, got it. What advice, in your experience, again, you mentioned, you know, the years of sales and of running and running the sales department. What advice would you give a new producer or maybe a plateaued or just a kind of a stuck producer from, from all of your learning?

I think that, you know, it's, it's being. I'll use the, the Sickens pyramid. And there's so much truth to that, you know, the bottom of the pyramid. That's a poor choice of words. The start of the pyramid is just being your best version possible. When you start to do that and waking up in the morning and say, you know what? I'm going to be the best version possible I can of myself, really good things happen. You start the day in a positive attitude and you say, you know what? I'm going to do the best job I can. Brent One of the things I learned from you was, you know, caring about others is such a valuable skill set. And whether it's part of your DNA or not, it's something that you can always strive to do, and that is care about others, because that resonates with people you do business with as well as your family. The other thing, one other thing is you taught us to consistently try to get better 1% every day if you really try to do that. And, and in my Sickens journey, the viewers can't see this, but there's the Sickens acronyms. And, you know, all of those acronyms. We learned those as a culture here at EH&D, and I intentionally learned each and every one of those. And what ends up starting to happen is you just start ending up working those acronyms because you get familiar with them, you believe in them, and you start to take it with you every day. And I find myself with some of those acronyms, the best version possible. The one thing that I would do differently today, the one thing that I want to do today, on a scale of 1 to 10, you know, with FICS, you know, how would you rate your broker or how would you rate H and D if you happen to be writing the account and then they're going to give you a score, and then if it's less than 10, how can we get back, get you to that perfect 10 score? So I think starting to get familiarity with the Sickens acronyms and working them and trying to get 1% better each day, I think what you'll find is 1% will become 2%, and ultimately you'll get to 100% a lot faster than what you would have ever imagined. So that's, that's one thing I'd like to share. Key takeaways, client relationship management calendars. We, I started to use that. We started to use that. And I think you can use that for clients, your A and B clients, your really good clients. I also think you can use that as a sales tool. And so we're, we're experimenting with that right now. And then really, I think that at the end of the day is you want to work towards the top of that pyramid. And that's a personal accountability. And that's, that's when you know that you're starting to really get it. And personal accountability, just as, quite simply put, you hold yourself accountable and, you know, at the end of the day, you don't use excuses. And that's, that's one thing that we preach here. That's one thing That I looked at myself and, you know, it's on me a lot of times if I don't write an account and, you know, we get the credit and we get the blame. So, you know, I think you just have to try to work yourself into being really familiar with all of the tools and resources that Sickens gives you. Don't try and learn them overnight, but if you break them apart into segments and you start to try to perfect those, after a while, you'll find yourself using that as your daily language, not only with your clients and your prospects, but even your family.

Yeah. The last part, Joe, that you mentioned there, I think is so critical in working with agencies. I mean, this has been for you. I mean, the fact that you're talking about all these different acronyms and what you've done, I mean, that didn't happen overnight. Right. That's that power of compounding consistency that you were talking about. And I love the fact you mentioned the 1%. That was obviously when we did our live training with your entire group. That was very sticky because I think you start to think about it, wait a second, I don't have to get 100% better tomorrow, but what if I just got 1% better tomorrow? Right. Or this week? What would that look like? And you start to realize the power of that, that continual improvement. And then I think the other part of that, Joe, just I could echo to the audience is to filter and to be able to take all these different ideas and things. Okay, what is it that I'm going to specifically do? And I have to give huge kudos to Eh and Dion on the end of one of our live trainings. And Joe, you can share about a little about this or expand upon it. You mentioned all the acronyms and obviously we're doing audio here, so there's no visual. But you all came up and you're really. Almost every single person in the room came up and put up an acronym and talked about specifically how it applies to the company, the agency, and what you guys are going to do, which just took it to a new level because it wasn't about, oh, that's a good idea. This is specifically what we're going to do. So you want to share anything about that because that was a really cool moment that you guys had with us at our live training.

It was epic. And before I forget, if you're an agency CEO or leader out there, I would say that the difference for me personally, when I started out as just a single producer going down to the camp by myself, and then fast forward that to the most recent year with Sickens. It was a lot more powerful to have embraced the Sickens group as an entire agency. And so the acronyms that we put were those acronyms that I was just talking about of trying to master. And we actually had that in our sales meeting. And we brought in the account managers, the HPT team, and the marketing team. And we had the account managers, HPT team asking the producers, what does this acronym mean? And I don't mind saying that the account executives, the producers, a little bit comfortable with that because they hadn't mastered it. And it was, it was really cool because as the, as the months started to develop, we would have some of the HPT team. For example, one of the acronyms is time spent selling. And if you're in the office on a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, then why are you here? And so the HP team members would challenge the producers and say, hey, it's Tuesday. Hey, it's Wednesday. Why are you here? You should be out selling something. And so we really had a lot of fun with that as much as we had a lot of fun showcasing those for you, Roger, or you, Brad, and Roger as well, when you came out to the agency and it just became that acronym dictionary became part of every single branch and every single department's sales room office. And so that was a constant reminder that, hey, we, we got to master all these acronyms so that we actually utilize them. Because you can't utilize them if you don't know what they stand for.

Right? That's right. That's absolutely right. And as you were, as you were saying that, I wrote down three things. I did a workshop. It's been a few weeks ago, before that, before the holidays, stuff you've, you've heard in different ways, Joe, but out to the, just kind of the general audience and other agencies and said, you know, really what we're seeing in agencies, there's three things that, that need to happen is number one is we have to move from just information to transformation. And that may sound cliche, but the idea is that we can have information, but as you just said, actually have them stand up and be uncomfortable. It's okay. As you know, it's called low risk practice and allows us to be more aware of it. But that's how you transform. You don't transform by just reading stuff. You've got to be able to get on your feet and to work on some of these things, even when it's uncomfortable. The other part that, number two is the process versus just an event. And you know, you at and D and all your producers and other people we work with, it's not an event. Yes, we have different events, but they build into a process and that was part of the playbook. And the last thing I just, I have to mention is the fact you said that it becomes part of the culture. It's this entire team approach that we, you know, it's got to be the agency's way of doing business. We just want to help you be able to get more buy in so that everyone says, hey, this makes sense. And I think what really needs to be highlighted there too, Joe, is that you guys have had a lot of fun doing this, right? I mean, let's say you can make more money and have fun. Is that okay? And I think that's been a big part of your story. So is it okay to have fun, Joe?

It's awesome to have fun and, and you really can. And you hit the, you hit the nail on the head. The one thing that resonates with having fun and getting HPT and the marketing department internally in your organizations, your risk control, your claims management, the next thing that happens, which is bfo, is you create this really cool culture. And I believe that EH D has created that culture. I actually believe that we've become very, very marketable and a lot of people that aren't working for us want to work for us. And it's because of the culture that. And that's a testimonial to the Sitkins group.

Well, thank you. And it's to the idea that you can be a comparison point or the point of comparison. And when you become that the point of comparison, yes, it helps in your clients and your marketing, but also helps in get the best people to be part of what you're doing. There's something very special going on at EH D. And Joe, you have been and continue to be a huge part of that. So thank you. Last thing I'll say is this. What's the one thing that's most exciting you for 2021, Joe?

I'm going to be retiring.

Congratulations.

Well, I mean, you know, never in my wildest dreams. I give this a tribute to the Sickens group as well. You know, the one thing is if you haven't embraced Sickens for whatever reason, why not? And you know, I'm happy to share that. I'm 62 years old. I'm going to be retiring basically on my birthday. And not many people can retire at 62, go out when they want to go out. Go out on top. And I believe that it's bittersweet because I literally am leaving where EHD is at the peak of our culture. And so it's a great legacy to be a part of, and it's a great legacy to leave behind. So thank you also for having me on this podcast, Brent.

Yeah, thank you, Joe. And again, there's a reason why he's Super Joe, because not only have you done the stuff, but you're able to transfer that information into, again, real practical ideas. And I think this has been. I know this has been extremely helpful, you know, to the audience listening. And I just want to congratulate you on your success and on your retirement. You're right at 62 to be able to do that. I know you're going to miss a lot of things because you give so much value. And, you know, just like any, you know, type of event or, you know, group that I'm with, you know, part of. As part of this longer process, the. The greatest part of this business, and this is true with your clients as well, is that your clients become great friends. And certainly we feel that way about you, Joe, at Sitkins and what you've done and just wish you all the best. So thanks so much for being on today.

You bet. Thank you, Brent.

All right, well, hey, again, the Agent Leader podcast. Purpose, clarity, consistency, commitment. Hopefully you got great value out of this and you had your pen and paper ready with notes for Super Joe here. So much great value to share. If you want to learn more about what we're doing at Sidkins, just go to sitkins.com and then you can hit programs, Learn about our programs, but a lot of different things you can check out there. We would love to be part of your success in 2021. So thanks for being a listener. We'll talk to you soon.