The Player Coach Trap

Welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. This is the podcast for independent insurance agency leaders to raise your game, to challenge the status quo, to raise your standards, and ultimately become your best version possible. Hi, my name is Brent Kelly. I am the host. Delighted to be with you on this episode. And let me just kick this off right off the bat. I'm gonna challenge your thinking today. In fact, I have a feeling I'm gonna ruffle some feathers. Woo! Yeah. Um, I'm gonna say some things today that might make some agencies, agency leaders, and their model a bit uncomfortable. You know, one thing that I believe in and we see all the time is that nothing grows in your comfort zone. I think we all aspire to have some level of comfort. It's called being human. But when we can force ourselves, or at least challenge ourselves to become uncomfortable, that's where the growth happens. I'll also tell you this. There are some agencies that this may not apply directly for you because maybe you're already doing some of these things. But I can tell you that for the majority of independent insurance agencies and how they grow and try to grow, this topic that I'm going to talk about today is very Normal. So what will I be talking about today? The player-coach model. The player-coach model. And I will tell you, the player-coach model on the surface makes total sense, right? It makes total sense. You have in your agency, and again, maybe this is an agency that's been growing for a while. Maybe you have multiple performers that are top performers. Maybe you are a newer or a growing agency. Maybe you've got one person who's really kicking some booty out there. but you have a top producer, someone who consistently performs, someone who knows how to win. So when it's time to elevate your sales team, or you bring more people in the door, you promote this person or this type of person into leadership, and you ask them to do both. It seems like a win-win. Hey, by the way, not only do you get to keep your book and go sell more. But we're also gonna either pay you a little bit or give you this promotion, this opportunity to lead other salespeople on the team. Now, maybe you take some of the book away and all that kind of stuff, but that typically is the player-coach model. Do both. Go sell some insurance because you're really good at it. Also, because you're so good at it, we're also gonna have you lead or manage or have conversations with producers on the team to help them do all the cool things that you're doing. Now, to be clear, this is not a bad idea. In fact, I think in the right situation, it can absolutely work. But here's what I've seen over and over again. And to be very transparent, in our private client network, the Sitkins Network, we have some agencies that do both models, and it's not to say they can't work, but I have seen both numerically and culturally that at the top level, when it performs the best, the player-coach model isn't the top choice. Because I think what works early for some agencies when they go to this model is often what holds agencies back later. Because at some point, trying to do both doesn't create more performance. It actually starts to dilute it. So we're gonna talk about that on today's podcast. And again, you might be thinking, well, we've had a player-coach model for years, Brenton, it's worked fine for us. Yeah, I'm not saying it can't work. I'm gonna challenge you to think a bit differently. I'm also going to call out some of the problems or some of the issues of why people stay away from this. Which makes perfect sense as well. All right. So let me go through 3 tensions, 3 friction points that most agencies underestimate. Maybe they acknowledge them, but I think maybe they underestimate the importance. So point number 1 is about as simple as it gets, but also probably the most powerful thing that we see why agencies either continue to thrive or start to plateau. Here's the point number 1. Focus. Focus. Tony Robbins said this years ago, where your focus goes, your energy flows. If you've ever been around a high-performing producer, you know how they think, right? They wake up. What do top producers think about when they wake up? Well, they think about opportunities. They think about conversations. They think about closing. They think about how they can win. That day. There's urgency, right, around that, which is great. That's what makes them top producers. Now compare that to what a sales leader should be thinking about. A sales leader thinks up the great sales leaders. And by the way, I'm just gonna take a step back here. I believe a great sales leader, a great leader has one main responsibility, and that is to grow and develop your number one asset. Your people. It really all comes down to that. So a sales leader is thinking about who on the team is improving, who isn't, where is our pipeline strong or weak? How do I elevate overall performance? How do I improve skills? How do I maximize each person on my team? Now that requires something completely different. That requires patience. That requires awareness. That requires true intentionality. So here's the real question. Again, these are questions for you to ask in your agency team. Do you, and if you were talking to a sales leader or a potential sales leader, do you wake up driven to write more business or driven to help others write more business? Because if you're trying to do both, it does create tension. And I have had one-on-one calls, numerous one-on-one calls, and I get very transparent with sales leaders. Maybe they've been in that role for a while and they're still producing. Maybe they're a producer who's getting promoted, or that's in the discussion. And I will ask them very transparently, when you get up in the morning, what would excite you more? To go out and write new business for the day? Or to help others write more business for the day, that week, that month. Neither one is wrong or right. It's simply who you are and who you want to be. Because in most cases, when I talk to producers, this isn't all, in most cases, most of them who have been promoted will say, well, I really like to produce. I love to produce. I'll do the coaching when I have time. Which we're gonna talk more about some of those issues that's coming up next. But I really love to produce, which that means leadership gets what's left over. They become the leftovers. So maybe some of it gets done, but not at the level that it could and should be. All right, so that's the number one tension. What's the second tension that we see? Point number two, I was alluding to it, getting there. Skillset. Skillset. The second tension is skillset. We assume that because someone is great at selling, they'll be great at leading sales. But those are absolutely not the same. Top producers, and I talked about this, they're often independent, they're competitive, they're instinctive. Sales leaders need to be consistent, structured, focused, on others. They don't win by doing more. They win by developing others to do more. And here's where it typically breaks down. Many top producers don't know how to explain what they do. They can do it, but they can't always teach it. Well, just, just do what I do. This is what I did. This is how I did it. Now, there's a number of problems here. We're going to get to the third issue here in a second. But like, the one of the problems is not only is, well, just because you did it that way doesn't mean I do it that way because I'm not wired like you. Here's the other part. We start to get multiple top producers and then we have multiple processes, multiple ways that we do things. We all know there's going to be flexibility in every agency because we are wired differently. But all of a sudden we have multiple processes because multiple people are saying multiple things. So instead of coaching, which by the way, coaching isn't about telling as much as it is asking, listening, learning. Those are different skill sets. You know, I always bring up in the training, in fact, just this week with producers, I talk about Michael Jordan, right? You could use any top athlete, but I'm not here to say that there's never been good players that have been good coaches. There's a few examples, but I'll tell you, there's far less of those than there are of the success stories of those where, why is this person a great coach? They weren't a great player. Now again, doesn't always correlate, but oftentimes top performers, whether it's sports, whether it's business, whether it's insurance agencies, they, they know how to do it. They're great. They're world-class at doing it, but their focus, their skillset isn't about teaching it. Or really having the patience and desire to develop others. In fact, you'll often see for top performers, and this is in their nature, this is why they are great at what they do, is they get extremely frustrated and impatient with people that don't do it like they do it. Why don't you just do it? Well, they're not you. And again, there's a different skillset to that, right? So the person, the team never fully grows and develops, right? So that's the second tension that we often see. What's the third tension? Point number 3. There's a human side to this. There's another layer that doesn't often get talked about enough, which is the human side. I've had so many conversations with player coaches who are incredibly confident in their ability to sell. And as I mentioned, they know how to win, but when it comes to leading others, there's hesitation. It's, you know, there's so much in communication that you get in tone of voice and body language. I will talk to a player coach who we're talking about production. They lean forward, they're excited, they're diving in. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And when we get to leadership, they have this like blank stare on their face. Like, I don't know what to do here. I'm lost. I'm confused. And this isn't because they lack, excuse me, capability. Because they're now in a role they've never trained for. It's a different skillset, as I've already mentioned. See, selling gives you immediate feedback, or at least pretty much immediate feedback, right? You, you win or you lose. Leadership is different, which is why it's really hard. You invest in people. I know this is such a cliché analogy, but I live in central Illinois. It is April as I'm recording this podcast, and very soon The farmers are going to start planting corn and beans in many of these fields that I live by. They're going to harvest them several months later. They're going to plant the seed and they're just going to wait. They're going to give it some air. Well, they don't give it air. The plants get air. Hopefully it rains, right? And they're nurtured in soil. They'll do a few things to help fertilize and help them grow, all that kind of stuff. But like, it's really about Nurturing and patience, right? And that's the gap that many top performers have that creates tension, lack of patience. Now, you contrast the story. On the other hand, I've seen top producers step into leadership intentionally. Now, this has been different. Like, I've talked to some leaders and I've, or player coaches who have either in that model or developing into that model. And I said, hey, what do you love to do? And they go, I love to see others win. It is absolutely the greatest thing in the world. And I'll see people like, I'm looking for a new challenge, or I have done the sales thing for 10 or 15 or 20 years and I loved it. I kicked butt. I got a nice book. I'm happy. I'm fulfilled through all that, but I'm ready for a new challenge. I'm looking for a new way to win. I'm looking for a different sense of purpose. And when that shift is intentional, everything changes. Because they stop measuring success by what they close and they start measuring success by what the team becomes. And you'll see and hear that shift. It turns into me, me, me to we, we, we, and the we is what lights them up. Now, by the way, you gotta have some really good mes to make the wes work. Right? So let's talk about, uh, another another area. I know I mentioned 3, but let's, let's talk about one more. That's really important. Economics. Economics, because there's just basic math to this. When you move your best producer into leadership, their production will likely drop. Now, are there exceptions? Of course. But for the most part, either they diminish their goal or just overall, and by the way, they may still write the most in the agency because they're that good. It's just less than what it has been or could be, right? So the team doesn't instantly level up, and now you've got this gap. You've reduced your strongest revenue driver without yet gaining the multiplied benefit of leadership. And over time, that shows up as slower growth, inconsistent performance, and pressure on margins. So these are the friction points, and I'm guessing some of these hit home with you, others maybe not. But something I'd ask you to consider in your agency now, who do we have in our sales leader role? Maybe you have no one there now and you're looking and thinking about that. You go, well, we don't really need a sales leader. We have some really good producers or a producer or two, and they can take this on. Well, consider what I just said. Maybe you currently have a sales leader or leaders, and you have to ask yourself, do we have them in the right seats? Is this best for them? Have we really talked about what it is they want? Does this optimize them and our agency? Right. So again, things to think about, to consider, and that's why I wanted to record this podcast today. So let's talk about solutions because it's easy for me to say, well, that may not work. Well, what do we do? Right? Because if not this, then what? So I'll talk about 3 paths here, right? First of all, and this is in the perfect scenario, I think is the great way to go and is a dedicated sales leader or dedicated Sales leadership. At a certain stage, leadership has to become its own role. That is my focus every day, not individual production. Right? So that's important. Number 1 is just have a dedicated sales leader. Now I know there's some friction points around that. We'll talk about that. Secondly, if you do use a player coach, if that's what you decide to do, define it. Set expectations, protect time, create structure. Because if you don't, they'll likely always default back to selling. And again, I can give numerous examples of conversations I've had. In fact, uh, again, without getting too much in the weeds here, we talk to producers about a green zone or creating a perfect schedule. What does the ideal or perfect schedule look like for you as a producer designing your week in advance? And I will just tell you, for producers, it's about 80% in the green zone, 20% red zone. And again, I could have a whole different conversation about that, but I will tell you, when I talk to player coaches that are officially in that role, we've gotta divide, determine, excuse me, design their perfect schedule as well. And it may look different. I had one sales leader, I remember we pretty much had a dedicated day for something different, right? Like Monday was getting ready, like we talk about, and he had Tuesday and Thursdays as 100% sales days. He was just going production. Wednesday, he would do some mentorship and walk and talk to his producers, right? So Mondays were sales meetings. Tuesdays was he's doing sales. Wednesdays was like joint sales calls or riding along with people or answering questions. Thursday was a dedicated sales day and Friday was kind of whatever you need. He kept that day open, right? Because he had some flexibility because he knew that life wasn't perfect. That was his system. It helped. Otherwise he's like, I don't even know what to do every day because they need me and they need me and they turn into, hey, this is when you get ahold of me. This is how I run things, which made things better and easier for him. And then here's a third thing to think about. Build a system. Because great, great sales leadership isn't just a person. Yes, we need someone to drive it, but it is a system. This is our selling system. This is our selling process. These are our sales expectations. And then we can have consistency around that. Now, some of you might be thinking this, well, if they're not the top producer, if we brought someone in as a sales leader, that either wasn't a top producer or gosh, maybe they didn't produce at all? How would our team respect them? Now, that's a very fair, valid question. How will they respect them? Well, I think too often though, we miss the point. We think of a sales leader as the person that answers all the questions as terms of coverages and policies. And yeah, that's great if you can have that. But here's what I believe, and I believe here's the truth. Sales leaders don't earn credibility by being the best salesperson. They earn it by making others better. Now think about this, like, well, is there credibility involved if you can go sell and talk to someone? Well, of course I get that. But if someone walks in a room with you and says, listen, my number one goal every day when I wake up is to help you go achieve your dreams, to help you go win. To help you achieve everything you wanted to achieve, to give you and give you tools and resources and empower you and challenge you all because I want you, using our term here at Sitkins, to become your best version possible. Well, I'll tell you what, I don't care if you sold more than me or not. What I do care about is that you can help me achieve what I need to achieve or want to achieve. All right, because when your team improves, and we've seen this for sales leaders, and by the way, we've had sales leaders come in that have been outside the industry. I've had sales leaders that have been the average salesperson on their team, but loved that role. And you could tell that's what they really wanted to do. We've had people that have been sales leaders that have come from different departments in the insurance agency. The point isn't all that. The point is, are they the right person based on the mindset, the skillset, and the behaviors needed to accomplish these goals. Because at some point, every agency has to decide, are we going to rely on a few high performers or are we going to build something that multiplies performance across the team? I am not a great math person, but one thing that I 100% know is that multiplication is way faster and grows way better than addition. That's the truth. It's this idea of putting people in the right role that their goal isn't just to make more sales, sales themself, or maybe help one person, but create models and systems and encouragement and accountability to build teams, to multiply their results. Because the player and the coach, those are not the same path and they don't necessarily lead to the same outcome. The player-coach model can work. It can. I'm not here to tell you that it can't work. And if that's where you are today, okay, consider some of the things I said today. You know, a joke that I always tell, a joke, I don't know if it's a joke, but a statement Jokingly, that I share with agency leaders is this: What do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to be when you grow up? So a year from now, 3 years from now, 5 years from now, how do you want your agency to operate at its top level to truly become its best version possible? Because yes, the player-coach model can work, but it rarely takes you to where you ultimately want to go. Listen, if some of the things that I share on this podcast or other podcasts, maybe get you thinking about some things, a few things that I would ask. Number one, if you could share this episode or share the podcast to other agency leaders, we're always looking to grow the audience. If you could like, subscribe, all the different podcast platforms, we appreciate that. It certainly helps our numbers, but it's not about that. It's about growing the message because we truly have a passion to help agencies become their best version. We mean that at our absolute core. And one more final thing. If you're an agency that maybe has been doing pretty darn good, right? Especially comparatively to other agencies, but you know, there's a higher level and you want to think and operate at the highest level. You're tired of saying, gosh, we're good, but are we just good enough? Then we would love to have a conversation with you. Start talking about your agency, where maybe you're stuck. What the next opportunities are and to help you, like I said today, multiply your results. If you're interested in that, go to sitkins.com/bookacall. We'll have an initial conversation. It's about perspective, not pressure. I appreciate you listening to the Agent Leader Podcast, and I wish you all the best in your success. Thanks for listening. Hey there, Agent Leader. Brent Kelly here. Want to take just a few seconds to remind you that now is the time to create your true best version possible agency. If you go to sitkins.com/bookacall, sitkins.com/bookacall, we'll get to know more about your agency, conduct an agency assessment, and provide your agency with a customized plan to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, frustrations, challenges, and roadblocks to get your agency to true ultimate freedom. And become its best version possible. It all starts by going to rogersitkins.com/bookacall.