Episode 106: "Why Not?" How to Go for the Big Wins with Paperclip Promotions

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

Just, it was day one of starting the company and I was driving and I can tell you exactly where I was when it happened. And I looked up and I was thinking about, you know, all these opportunities and sky's the limit. I literally looked up and saw a Southwest plane and I was like, they're a cool company, we should work with them. And then, and so began the, so began the journey.

That's Ruth Verver. Over 10 years ago, she and her business partner, Beth Walker, founded Paperclip Promotions in Austin, Texas. Mark Graham and I flew there to visit with them and to hear their story. We sat in their office among their team as we heard about their attempt to land Southwest Airlines, even though they'd just opened their doors. We talked about the critical missing piece in their values, an order for their biggest client that went south, a true planes, trains, and automobiles story, and their experience hiring a business development consultant. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, the Chief Content Officer at commonsKU. We just wrapped up our first Sessions conference in Dallas, the industry's one-day sales conference for distributors who want to ignite their growth. Next week, April 25th, we'll be in Chicago, on May 9th, Los Angeles, and May 16th, New York City. You can learn more at commonsKUSessions.com. And as a reminder, we released the schedule and session details for SKU Camp being held in Pittsburgh, September 22nd through 25th. The remaining tickets will sell quickly. We encourage you to visit SKUcamp.com to check it out. This episode is brought to you by Commenscue, the platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. Begin your free trial now at commenscue.com. And now to Austin, Texas, home of Paperclip Promotions, and our chat with Bruce and Beth. So what are you most proud of about your business journey? Beth, let's start with you. Because I knew that would be awesome.

Thanks for that.

Threw a curveball, didn't you?

I thought I was going to go right to the point.

My hands went immediately hotter. I think what we would say most is sort of 11 years ago when we just came together and it was like the fates aligned that we were both at the same point in our career where we wanted to do something new. And we literally said, "Hey, any chance that you want to start a business together?" And we both said yes. And then it was like, "Well, holy cow, where do we go from here?" And it was just unbelievable timing. Ruth and I worked together for several years before this point, and it just sort of happened. Everything lined up and we just took a big leap. So I think what one of the things I would say we're probably most proud of together is that we just took a big risk. And we've talked about this a lot, how much risk plays into and how it comes into play owning a business. But yes, taking a leap, I would say, and just going for it is something that we're most proud of. And saying that we're business owners is pretty unbelievable.

So now we're 11 years in. You took that big leap between then and now. What were some of the biggest threshold moments for you in terms of the business? Was there ever a time when you were up against the ropes? What were the biggest struggles? Maybe the high watermarks, the low watermarks? Tell us a little bit about that part of the journey.

For me personally, it's kind of a positive and a negative. It was kind of a win and a loss. When we were only like in our 4th or 5th year, we had an opportunity with a big prospect with Southwest Airlines, and we actually made the shortlist, and we got to go and pitch at their facility to a committee of 10 people. And literally—

That's huge.

It was so exciting. And literally day one, I mean, this is so corny, but we had just— it was day one of starting the company, and I was driving, and I can tell you exactly where I was when it happened. And I looked up, and I was thinking about all these opportunities, and sky's the limit. I literally looked up and saw a Southwest plane, and I was like, they're a cool company. We should work with them. And then so began the— So began the journey. Anyway, so yeah, it was really amazing, the whole process of preparing for that presentation. We actually had many, many dry runs with different groups of people and friends and family and had them critique us.

So this was for a big chunk of business. This was a big program.

Yes, and so we put a lot, 6 months of a whole lot of time and effort into it. And we had a great presentation. They laughed, they cried. I mean, it was amazing. Our primary contact there at the end whispered in my ear, like, you nailed it. I mean, it was unbelievable. A month later, they said, "Never mind." They said, "You're too small and too new, and you don't get it." And that was a crushing blow, but everything happens for a reason. And looking back, that truly was a win and a loss because we knew what we needed to do to improve and get better to go out there and get the bigger fish the next time.

This started— this was sort of— we didn't know it at the time, but this is sort of the intro to our whole concept now of preparedness. And again, like how I mentioned that Ruth is very disciplined, and when we were getting ready for the Southwest presentation, two things that I want to speak to. Is Ruth arranged— I thought this was brilliant, nothing I would have ever thought of— arranged presentation in front of 20 of our family and friends, which was far more daunting than presenting to Southwest. I mean, and we worked, and Ruth worked tirelessly. I mean, tirelessly. And this was before we had— this was like before shades were everywhere. I mean, like, we had shades made Overseas.

Yeah, that went the custom overseas shades, like the really custom ones were like brand new and super awesome.

Brand new, like no one— they weren't even— and, and in fact, just a little point that you failed to mention is that we got really, really close and then they said, no, you guys don't make the cut. And Ruth said, I'm not going to take that answer. And we made a sweet presentation kit to them, a box that said, you know, like with their custom shades in it that we already had specced out. Yeah, and it said something. We said something super awesome, I'm sure, and they said, "Okay, you guys can—" "You're back in." "You're back in," which was unbelievable. Then— "No for an answer." Exactly. This was not option A or B, but option C, give us, you know, we're making our own way here. And when they said no, that we didn't get it, obviously, it was devastating. Like, I'll never forget when Ruth said, "Okay, I'm done for the day," and left the office. It was devastating. But we asked the customer for feedback as to why we didn't— I get it. It's very frustrating because you'll see over there, Ruth had a plaque made with everything she said, very buttoned up, resourceful, customer service friendly. I'm looking at it right now. Quality, detailed. And Ruth left a blank mark on the plaque for what we were missing. So this is what we work towards now is to make sure that we always keep that top of mind is what is that— What is the missing part? What is the missing piece? And you'll see, I mean— I love that. When she said all of that, we're like—

When you ask why didn't we get the business and they come back with 16 copies You're like, "That didn't really satisfy what I was looking for. That just really made me more sad and more mad." Yeah.

Love that. This is sort of a constant reminder to make sure that we're always challenging ourselves.

I love how you turned this rejection into this opportunity to improve. We didn't mention it at the outset of the interview, but we're in your beautiful office here in funky Austin. Can you describe where we are right now? Describe this environment to us? Our office?

Yeah. Sure. It's a lovely, well-lit, open floor plan. When we remodeled a few years ago, we really wanted an environment for our employees to be able to congregate and talk and collaborate and help each other. So that's really what we were going for. And our office before was lots of walls and offices and hallways. And it was very dark. And yeah, we just decided to open everything up, let in some natural light. And really kind of make it conducive to the energy that we were hoping that people would feel when they walked in here.

Tell us your respective roles in the company and how does your skill set complement each other's strength? Ruth, we'll start with you this time. And it'd kind of be fun for you to comment on each other's strengths. And you guys have worked together a long time. You had already established a partnership together, so to speak, elsewhere before you started your own business. What was it that you knew she had? What do you think Beth has developed since then?

She's just incredible. She has a high energy about her. People like to be around her. She's off the charts on the extrovert side of things, and I kind of live in the quiet introvert area, right? So I love that about her.

Ironically, you're the— ironically, you're the one that did the Skew Camp presentation. We're not gonna forget about this.

But I tell people, people are surprised about that, but that's one-way communication. Like, that's me. That's— I can be an introvert because I don't have to communicate, I'm just sharing.

My friend Ann Hanley, who's spoken to thousands of people, actually said as an introvert, it's the best place to be. Yeah, absolutely.

It wasn't until a SCUCon situation where I thought I was presenting and then it was a workshop, then I was like, crap, I have to interact?

How do I do that? I know.

But that's okay, getting out of your comfort zone is okay. So yeah, and Beth also, you know, it was her idea to create this company, and she has a lot of really, really big ideas. It was her idea to start using COP. That came from her.

So our listeners will know that's Karen Kopp, who's been on the podcast before, but we'll link to that in the resources as well.

So yeah, and Beth has a lot of— she'll just come out one day and be like, "Hey, why don't we do this?" And I'm like, "Wow, I've never even thought anything about that at all, but it's awesome. So let's do it." So yeah, I'd say those were her two big strengths.

For me, this is easy. I told Ruth earlier that when I talked about her, I'd try not to cry. You know, yeah, I would literally trust I trust Ruth with my life. I trust her 1,000% with our business. That's because she knows if she let me do anything with that, you know, that it would not be so good. I think we challenge each other with ideas, but anything that we talk about, Ruth makes it happen and makes it happen quickly. She just makes everything happen. And the discipline— and I think how she's made me be better is that she's sort of forced me to look at the things the things in myself that I need to work on, the things that I know I need to work on. I think her and I are both huge on constructive criticism, and it's for sure made me get better in my career. And her and I working so closely, and in order for me to respect Ruth in the way she likes to be communicated with, I've had to significantly up my communication game. And I would promise you, she'd tell you that it still needs a lot of work. But I focus on, I I just want to make her happy. A pleaser.

Where do you as a partnership disagree on things?

Oh, gosh. We might both go to therapy for this. No, I'm just kidding.

We'll edit this part out. Maybe we won't, but I kind of love the spontaneity of it. But I think this is actually a bit of a riff on some of these existing questions because—

Wait, what was the question? It made me hot.

I kind of forgot about it.

Where do you disagree? Where do you disagree and why do you disagree on things in the odd case that happens?

No, I mean, I would imagine that it does. We would be like robots if it didn't. Generally speaking, we have the same philosophy about things and we like graphic design. We will look at something our designer gives us for our own company and I'll be like, I like 2 and 3, and she'll be like, I like 3 and 4, and easy, 3's the winner. That's usually what happens. I don't know, I think probably in my case, If I don't care, if I'm not super passionate about whatever the subject is, you know, maybe I don't really love the idea of that self-promo or whatever it is that Beth really wants to do. If I feel like I don't have a dog in the fight, to me, I'm just like, well, she cares about it and really wants to do it. So like, we'll just, we'll just do it. I can't think of a situation where it's really been like—

Truly, we've worked together for so long. I think any disagreements that we've had have just been more like life adjustments. —like, just like really personal hardcore stuff. Like, stuff that doesn't really impact our—I mean, it impacts our business, but I mean—so I think anything we've had has really been like family. Exactly, like, because we are family. So it's like any kind of conflict we've had has been really more based around like—but we move on.

Part of it, too, might be—I'm just guessing—that since you worked together for so long, even prior to starting the business, you'd worked out some of those things in learning how to work together and communicate with each other. For sure. For sure.

I think we know how to present things to one another.

It's not very sexy of an answer. It's not very too, too exciting.

I think it is exciting. But I think another dimension to that question is, are there examples in your working history where Beth has pushed for some big change at Paperclip that you, Ruth, might have been a little bit uneasy about, but Beth promoted it and pitched it to you, and then you ultimately went along with it because you believed in Beth. Or it could be an example vice versa where you believed in something and Beth was like, I'm not so sure about this investment, but you felt it in your bones that it made sense for Paperclip and that you pulled Beth along.

Well, like I mentioned, she kind of had the big— I— that, you know, the big thought process about pulling in a sales consultant, and so that's when we started working with Karen Kopp and her group. And that's a big investment. It's a lot of time and a big expense. And for something in the sales realm, like to do something like, to work with a company like that who opens doors, and then you've got to go out and go on a lot of meetings. And feeling like that's not necessarily something I love to do every day, it wasn't, I wasn't like all in. I mean, I was, but I wasn't. It made sense for the business. She felt very passionate about it and felt like it was the— and the way she pitched it to me, we've worked on the— we've met with a consultant on our branding. We've met with a consultant on the organizational structure of our business. Why don't we talk to someone about the sales? That's sort of the third leg of the tripod. And it made a lot of sense. I wasn't ready to jump in. It took a little selling for me to get comfortable with the numbers and the situation.

And again, just speaking to Ruth's is a discipline and following up and being so business savvy and business oriented and the numbers cop. I didn't think it through. I'm so happy we did it. Me too. But, like, literally, it was probably one of the most stressful times in our business, Ruth, don't you think? Why? Well, because the consultant had access to our calendars and would just stick meeting after meeting after meeting on our calendar. And I don't really like meetings that much.

That was the whole point. Meetings on your— with prospects.

Yes, with whatever door they opened. She'd open the door and get you the meeting with the prospect. And you're not sure about— they try to vet it to the best of their ability, but, you know, it's kind of— it was just a crapload of work. I mean, and, you know, we're juggling a business and kids, and it all worked out in the end, but it was a challenging— Absolutely. Yeah. Because we weren't going to go in there half-cocked.

We wanted specs so we could get it, and we really needed to make the appropriate pitch, not just show up because it was on our calendar. So it was all that pressure we put on ourselves also to really do it at 110%.

But anybody that is thinking about it, I mean, we've been talking about this crystal ball, and you kind of wish you knew what your life would look like when you pull the trigger to do this. Because once you pull the trigger, it happens really fast. Fast. And you're like—

They warn you, but you're like, oh yeah, sure, those prospects are going to be ready to meet next week. But they are. We had 33 meetings in 4 months. And a lot of them didn't have more than a day or two of notice. Wow. So yeah. Yeah. Was that worth your investment?

Yes, it was.

My thought process made me kind of think we would recoup all the money in a year. That's not necessarily how it's worked out. I didn't know how to think about it any other way. So it probably will take us 3 years. But even then, for all of the knowledge that we gained, it's absolutely— yeah. And then, of course, customers are going to buy from us more than 3 years from now. So it'll turn into a positive situation on the books.

And we might speak to this more later, but COP was sort of— had twofold, I guess, is that how it all started is I went to a Sandler training. And I don't know if you guys are familiar with that, but it's expensive, and it's over, like, I don't know, 2 days or 3 days. And I sat in there and I'm like, there is no way that I'm going to do this. It just, in theory, is a good idea. But it kind of started with, we just need to hire somebody to do that for us. I don't know. So this is how the whole thing started. And with COP, it was exciting to us to think about all this stuff that we did with them and how we spoke to them and all the information they pulled out of us about our business and what people's objections are when dealing with our industry. And this started the ball rolling of what we refer to as our sales playbook. And it's literally invaluable information. It's unbelievable. And we've continued the relationship with celebrate and— we call them celebrate and solve calls, where we speak to our consultant and we discuss successes, failures, whatever. Challenges. Challenges. And we add all of this to our playbook, which is amazing. We talked the other day about how to deal with— we called them another word, but how to deal with jerk clients. And ways to discuss language, and we have it all written down. So it's amazing that you can, when you're preparing for the difficult conversations, that you can just pull up the information and have it, and you feel more prepared.

Right. Awesome. Tell us a little bit about the types of clients you serve. You're in Austin, Texas. We're all gonna make assumptions about some of the clients you serve, but we're probably gonna be wrong.

It's a very strange spectrum. We have a lot of technology customers. That's the part that probably isn't too surprising. Cybersecurity and software developers. And then on the other end of the spectrum, one of our largest customers, a US manufacturer. So they have plants all over the country. And they do— Beth said earlier today when we were talking that we're comfortable from Converse to camo because the tech people really want the cool, like, Converse for their trade show getup. And then you've got your US manufacturers that want their flashlights and their camo hats for days and days and days. Very different way of thinking. Very different way of thinking. And then we're kind of just now starting to develop a new segment that is more B2C, more retail-oriented. We have a few customers in that space that is different. It's exciting to work in that space.

I love how you have a diverse client base that's in a range of different industries. But is there a way that you could define some traits of a Paperclip client, like the ideal client for you, whether they're a technology company or a B2C company or a government client? What traits do they all have in common? If you were to have a party and have them all in a room, what do they all look like?

We're starting to see sort of a common denominator in that our customers are starting to really sort of trust us with suggestions and really listen to us in terms of, this is what we're seeing, we think that this would be really successful for your end user, for your prospect, for your team, whatever it is. I feel more confident now saying that people are starting to lean on us and our team more, which is really exciting. And I think especially being in Austin, we're challenged with really showing what's new and cutting edge. And so that's been really good for us. And we're exploring different avenues of sort of outside of the industry too, to try to stay ahead of the game.

But one of the things that we learned from one of the gentlemen that spoke at SKU Camp was talking about identifying your advocates and who are those people that get you, that you want to work with. And so we went through that process with our customers too. And what we found is that mutual respect is a big one. We aren't that interested in working with the people that have, you know, mistreated or, you know, really didn't value our time in the past. And so that was such a great exercise for us to go through after SCU Camp to really realize just how important that is. And I think, yeah, if you got them all in a room, I think that's, that's the common denominator that I would see is that they respect us just as much as we respect them and their time.

Yeah, that's a great answer. True.

Any favorite complicated but successful project you guys have worked on? Anything come to mind?

Specific? Yes. This was a large order for one of our technology customers for their sales kickoff. It went south really, really quickly. It was 600 Nike jackets. Is that my number right? And our decorator used a broker to ship them. I didn't even know this could happen. We thought they were on a truck, but somehow, I guess because it was more economical, they put it on a train. And her event was in Las Vegas. And her event started on a Sunday night. And on that Friday, we realized that the goods were stuck on a train in a rail yard in California. And her event is in Las Vegas. And you can't just unload a train super easy and drive things from the rail yard. So probably at 3:30 on a Friday afternoon, we all got together. Poor Beth was off that day and had people coming over for dinner. And she spent the next 3 hours locked in her home office trying to help us figure all of this out. Having a heart attack. Yes. We ended up— everybody put their heads together and found an embroiderer in Las Vegas that we had never met before, and she was happy to throw some overtime to her people and bring them in for the weekend. And the jackets came from— we were able to get the jackets from Salt Lake City. No, Reno. Reno. And again, found a courier.

So wait, the jackets were finished on the train, but you had to redo the order?

Yes. I'm sorry, I meant—

you've got this investment on the train that you're going to worry about.

Now you've got to Right.

No, they were decorated on the train and it was our best customer and our best contact with our best customer.

And the best contact told me Friday at 3:30 or 4, Beth, your and my job's on the line. Yeah.

She said my job is on the line. She said your and my job is on the line.

So we got blanks and trusted some random courier that we found to drive them from Reno down to Vegas, like in the middle of the night, literally. And she— two-location decoration. She got them done for us and like literally delivered them on the back of her pickup truck, you know, a couple hours before the event started. And she did a great job. The customer was happy.

There were so many wrinkles in the plan because I remember I called the supplier. I spoke to this guy. I was probably bawling on the phone telling him what was happening. And he said, okay, okay, we're going to pull all this stuff. It's after hours here. We're going to pull it all and get it ready for you. And then I called back 20 minutes later and he had left for the day.

Oh my God. Do you remember that? Yes. Wow. How big was this order? We're guessing $600,000? It was probably $16,000 net.

Yeah. Yeah, a bunch. A bunch of dollars.

The replacements.

The replacements, yes.

But we're talking about your biggest client, so it's not really just the dollar amount.

Yeah, no, it was so much more than that. And I think she was pretty wowed when less than 48 hours later that she had. And then we're still, "Does anyone need a jacket?" Because we still have some.

What happened to the goods on the train? Did anyone else pay for that or you guys paid for that?

So far we have, but we are slowly reselling them as they have a need. We're slowly reselling them for cheap.

Yes, for a fire sale. To make a long story long, that was, I think it's kind of hard to realize that when those incredibly stressful moments are happening, I mean, it was It was probably one of the most stressful times of my career. But look, we're here and everybody's great and they're still a great client.

And everybody, the team really came together. I mean, we were all here until 7 or 7:30 and nobody in this office ever was like, hey, it's Friday, like, I got plans, can I go? Like, everybody just hunkered down, which was really amazing.

You know, one quick thing we're going to share at the sessions this week too about what B2B buyers fear the most when your buyer said, "Yours and my job are on the line with this project." The study done by the, the largest study of B2B buyers found out that the more personal risk a purchase entails, the more emotional buyers feel, the more they attach to brands that can provide value and eliminate risk. And they fear losing time and effort if a decision goes poorly, losing credibility if they make an unsuccessful recommendation, which is, she was in that position, losing their job if they're responsible for a failed purchase. So this study had actually proven that personal value trumped business value for a B2B buyer, which is an interesting case study right there.

I think that you also see that it's the measure of an amazing company in this business, whether you're a distributor or a supplier, is how you respond to screw-ups. I know from my experience with Right Sleeve that some of the most exciting, incredible moments in my time as a distributor were when things screwed up, and you go into problem-solving mode, and your whole team is rallying around you, and your partner, vendor partners are rallying around you, and once it gets delivered, you just have this massive adrenaline rush, and you look in the mirror and go, this is why I have an amazing company, or this is why I hope I have an amazing company, and I think that it's those screw-ups that test you, and they suck, But they're really what separates the professionals in this business from the ones that are the ones that leave after 20 minutes, right? You know, in the unnamed example, in that case. So congratulations to you. And I was just— I was getting excited listening to this story, going like, how would I have solved this?

It's a planes, trains, and automobile situation.

And Bobby, you also said it as well in your comment after what Beth said, But, you know, talk about how powerful our medium is when your buyer says to you, "My job is on the line if these jackets don't arrive." Absolutely. And, you know, anyone who says that we're in the trinkets and trash business, I mean, there may be a part of the business that one could define that way, but when you think about how important that is, that someone's job is on the line, that's pretty cool. And I think that's a responsibility that we take very seriously in this business.

And to that point, that project served a purpose, a vital purpose for that brand. So there was much more at stake than a jacket, right? There was something at stake much larger than a jacket. Ruth, you spoke at SKU Camp, and some folks may have heard you, but many may not have heard you speak about your high-touch and creative marketing services. Can you tell us a little bit more about your marketing strategy and how that augments your sales efforts, how it boosts your sales efforts? Sure.

One of the things that we really want to drive home with our customers this year is purposeful marketing. And we noticed a lot in Vegas, there was a theme with a lot of our vendors about giving back and social awareness. And we really liked that. So we decided with our marketing this year is that we're going to have like a paying it forward, giving back sort of theme. So our quarterly mailings that we do to our customers, we've really stepped it up this year. And everything is going to— all the promotional products that we send to our customers in this quarterly mailing, everything's going to have like a give back feature. We did the Memo Bottle first. We just mailed those last week. And with the Memo Bottle, if you're not familiar with that brand, for every bottle that they sell, they give 2 weeks of fresh water to someone that doesn't have it. So just experiencing that on our own, just with our order of 50 pieces, that there's 100 weeks of fresh water out there now being given to someone that didn't have it before, feeling that as a buyer is pretty remarkable. And we want our customers to share that too. So that's our plan as far as our quarterly mailing to our clip kits that we send out to customers is we're going to have a— really emphasize the giving back feature.

Tell us about the clip kits a little bit. Do you budget per client? Is it— do you spend money per client? Is it the same kit? Are they customized per client?

What does that look like? Initially, we were inspired by a Birchbox sort of an idea, but we realized to do that, we didn't want a box of a bunch of inexpensive things that people may or may not appreciate. And we weren't sure that we had the resources to really customize it for all of our customers. We send it to about 50 people. So we decided to do the same thing for everyone and make it one really nice promotional item that we love, that we use ourselves. Exactly. That was—

we seemed to be having this problem where we loved certain promotional items and we couldn't— it was sort of like we were beating it down our customers' throats, but they didn't have the same feel for it that we did. So we said, well, let's start mailing some of our favorites to our clients so that they can get an idea not only for the product, but also our quality level, our design aesthetic, those sorts of things.

Yeah. And so we also, instead of we would just do a very plain white box and just have the Klip Kit logo as a circle. So we had some round decals made that we would put on there, very simple look. But then through some of the shows at the beginning of the year, we found some vendors that will do full-color boxes at low runs. Without costing $50 a box. And so we decided, yeah, exactly. So we decided to— It looks gorgeous, by the way, yeah. What's so great about that opportunity with those is that not only are we doing our own mailers custom now full color, the boxes that you just referred to across the room are actually a mailer to a prospect. So we're actually now going to incorporate those in our marketing efforts as we send direct mail to prospects. We're going to customize it to their brand to try to get a little more attention that way. But really this year, yeah, we just decided to step it up. We're going to, we're rebranding. Later in the year, we have a fall party in 3 cities for all of our customers, and that's going to be our opportunity to sort of launch the combination of the give-back theme and our new brand. So yeah, marketing efforts this year, we really— we're stepping it up. My role has changed a little bit this year, and I'm doing less customer-facing. And already I've seen the difference there. It's sort of opened— I have more brain space now to think about marketing our company and what we want to do with our company, which is really exciting, and that's right up my alley. That's been really terrific for me.

Obviously the clip kits then have been one of your most successful tactics. How are you rating the return on that investment? Is this just an ongoing— you're getting good feedback, anecdotal feedback.

How do you measure that? We're getting great feedback. We probably hear from a third of the people that we sent it to within a few days after receiving it. Later on when we're meeting with customers, they'll point the item out to us if it's like a desk top item or a bag or something that they're going to have on their person, they make a point of going, look at this. Or like, I'm wearing all Paperclip today. They make a point of letting us know.

People tag us with what we send on Instagram. I get lots of pictures texted to me wrapped in the blanket that we've sent out or whatever else. It's just unbelievable.

Yeah. And then we did a focus group last year to learn more about what we could do to better serve our customers and to hear the feedback. About the clip kit and that it's— they are excited when they see the box and they look forward to it. And then we realize like just how important and impactful it truly is. And so we have our list of people that we send it to like last year, but now again, because of the whole advocate thought process that we learned from SKU Camp, we've added to that list.

Well, and the success on this compounds. I think a lot of folks try these types of things, but they stop too short. And it's the consistency over time that usually is where the payoff comes. I know that's very basic and obvious, but a lot of us, because we're in such an exciting industry that has so many different products and so many different marketing opportunities and there's so many tactics and there's so many things you could do, that's one of those core pieces that if you just keep doing it and keep doing it, you're training your buyer to think and expect and welcome that and have that experience.

Absolutely.

So something else, again, we're always concepting new projects and ideas, and so When we were thinking about this year, how to best capture when we have vendor meetings, we make a file in Commons Queue. I think we call the file Rep Meetings 2019, and then we make presentations based on who comes to see us.

So we created a customer called Rep Meetings.

We created a customer called Rep Meetings 2019, and everybody who comes to see us, we create a presentation for them. And we, of course, make titles of our self-promo policy, et cetera, et cetera.. And then we make note of our items that we like, and then we make comments on them, who they apply to in terms of our customers. But it's also very easy for us to make a title like clip kit possibility, holiday gift. We don't add this, but we should make titles that say holiday gift idea, things like that. But anyway, it's easy for us to go back and refer back and see what items we like for the clip kit or for holiday gifts. Or for our end user party. I don't remember the point of me saying that.

And then we use that, it's a way that we found to use common SKU with our marketing and idea generation. Yeah, that's cool. Because when we're putting a presentation together, something else, a new marketing initiative that we started last year too based on some feedback from customers is called Have You Seen This? They wanted to know the latest and the greatest whether they had the budget for it or not. So even if they're looking for $3 trade show giveaway items, we will put a have you seen this section at the bottom of the presentation. Go to that rep meeting customer, see all of our favorites from the rep meeting from the last 6 months. Grab, I mean, it could be a $60 something. If they're only looking for $3 items, it doesn't matter. It's really to kind of spur their creativity and shock them and make them realize that there are other things out there that they might need for another project. And that's really helped. And so also, to bring us back the clip kit mailer that we do to our customers every quarter now. We've actually coordinated it with the Have You Seen This initiative. So our customers get an email from us once a month with one product that's unique and cool that they probably haven't seen before. And now every quarter now they're going to receive the actual product as a clip kit that they saw in the Have You Seen This. So we're just— marketing-wise, we're trying to be much more coordinated. And much more effective.

A lot of this is based on the feedback that we received after the beta clip. We went to Dallas, just Dallas and Austin, right? And just selected our best customers and our advocates. We had a facilitator come and do this whole focus group. Yeah, that's cool. And this is, a lot of these things are based off of the feedback.

Yeah. Speaking of CommsCue, so we were talking a little bit about lunch, how you had met Mark, and we laughed about that, that story. How has CommsCue reshaped or realigned your business? How did this amp your infrastructure. I'm curious how you felt about partnering with Commenscue and what it did to your business. What do you feel like it freed you to do more? No, that's a great question.

And I think the answer is everything. I mean, Commenscue is so intuitive. We didn't know what to expect, really. What got me with the presentation initially was that we had like folders with printed orders in them. And then I saw the operation screen and was like, wow, this is about 1,000 times smarter than the way we do it now. I didn't realize at the time. I thought it would be a time saver in terms of like, great, no paper, and well, we can be more efficient. We can leave notes to each other. But the results were actually like tenfold. I don't think I realized at the time just how efficient it made us with the sharing and being able to search. If I'm doing a presentation on golf, being able to search the word golf, find a presentation, and edit it and move forward. All of those things were huge bonuses and surprises that I really didn't expect. Being mobile has been another huge one when—

Not being tethered to your desk. Yeah, right.

Yeah, when before we had a VPN at home and so we had to go home, it took me like 30 minutes to be able to get online to do anything and to process an order. Yeah, it's crazy. And now I joke about, literally it's a true story, that I like placed an order the Wednesday before Thanksgiving standing in line at the grocery store. It was a rush order and I placed it from my iPhone. I love those stories. Like, that's so awesome. Those are just surprises that I didn't. So I mean, really it changed it. I joked with Catherine initially when we talked about signing up, it's like, I don't expect this to change my life. And I was only kind of kidding, but it really has. Like work life, it's really changed immeasurably.

Poor Ruth, when we first demoed CommonSkew, trying to integrate it with our system, Ruth is like, now everybody just go slow.

We're going to use it for one customer that everybody took care of.

And then we're all like, sorry, Ruth. This is like so awesome. We're just gonna use it for everyone.

Yes, we didn't have the accounting side set up, so everyone had started using it 100% for everyone, and I could not receive money or print a check. So that was a bit of a challenge, but a good problem. Everyone was so excited, and that alone is worth it.

So can you remember the trigger event that brought you to consider software in the first place?

I don't know that we realized that we had a problem. I mean, looking back now, I call our old software like a paperweight. We were truly tethered and trapped underneath it. Any time I wanted to move anywhere, it was very, very difficult to navigate. I don't remember knowing that we had a problem or that there was any other way to do things. So I don't necessarily remember the trigger event myself.

Were we looking into— I think we had been to several education sessions and maybe heard about sales Salesforce or some of these other things. And then Commonsku just kind of kept coming back. The biggest hangup was getting familiar with QuickBooks, and we weren't using that with our other platform. So I think that was the biggest hangup at the time, but I can't speak to how quickly we got comfortable with it. But I think that was the biggest hangup. But from what I recall, we moved past that pretty— once we could print checks and send invoices.

But just knowing, for me, just knowing that a company like Right Sleeve was already using a similar software, that was evident to me that we were obviously much smaller at the time, and if it was good enough for a distributor of that size, it would be good enough for us.

Yeah, gave you peace of mind. Absolutely, yeah.

We didn't know we needed it, but once we got there, we were so happy to be. It's such a happy place compared to where we were before.

Yeah. I think it's being educated, right? We were talking about that we go listen to various sessions, and just becoming educated about the other avenues. Started kicking the can around about switching from our other CRM tool.

Favorite feature that you love? You know, I always thought it was the operation screen, but I think personally now it's just the feed. It's being able to— I mean, I joke that it's kind of being nosy, but just getting to see what everyone's working on and clicking around and being like, ooh, what ideas are they putting together?

So you're all over the world?

Absolutely. Yeah, that's probably my favorite. That's great.

That's cool. I love when I can't find something and I make a post. And everybody replies.

It's awesome. What has Commons Queue enabled you to do that you did not do before or could not do before?

It's really just the freedom and the flexibility on this side, like on the back end. But on the front end, looking back, like finding PDFs of copies of orders and invoices that we used to send to customers, it just makes us look so cool. And we couldn't have gotten there with the system we were using. I mean, it's super embarrassing to look back at presentations that we used to send.

It's very embarrassing. Our customers speak to it. And now, I think what's also so exciting is how really everything is just sort of all together on, like, the proof approvals. It's just so streamlined. It's just awesome.

So Ruth and Beth, it's been 11 years of growth for Paperclip. What do the next 3 to 5 years look like for Paperclip?

And let me add to this question. It sounds like— it's funny, sometimes it is hard for us in this business to think far down the line. Part of it is because of this on-demand. This demanding business that we have. And you guys both strategize a lot about the business, but you're already planning this future business because you're rebranding again, right? Or rebranding your company again. So I think that's exciting. And I love what Mark said about that at lunch, you know, that just shows the pride of ownership and the pride in what you do and how you're planning on taking the business in a new direction.

I think where are we in 3 to 5 years? We're servicing and partnering with Southwest Airlines.

I like it. Yeah, I think with the rebrand that we're talking about doing, it's a great time for us to sort of reevaluate and sort of relaunch ourselves. And, you know, who knows? See what the future holds. I think we both love what we do, and we love our customers, and we love our employees. Our team is fantastic. So I think we just kind of want to multiply. You know, with time, we'll find more people that we love as much as the employees that we have now. And go out there and get more business that we love working with. Yeah, awesome.

And I think my observation in closing, and this is such a privilege for us to come and see distributors in their offices, is that what's clear to me as an outsider is that you have invested in this great platform at Paperclip. You've got the technology infrastructure, you've got the great people, you've got this great culture, you've got a great brand, you're reinvesting in your brand. And these are all significant investments that allow you to scale. So from my perspective, as I look out at your business in the next 3 to 5 years, it's very exciting to see what you can do. I think distributors that don't invest in those things and just go after the sale each and every time, just pounding the pavement and grow their sales, but don't invest in these other things like brand and infrastructure and operations, they'll continually hit that ceiling. So kudos to you because it's uncomfortable to make these investments. It's uncomfortable to put yourself out there and set yourself up for growth because there's a lot of risk there, but it looks like you're doing it right.

Thanks. It's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you, guys. This has been fun.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of Skucast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to Skucast on iTunes, or to our blog at community.commskew.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.