Episode 115: The Adventure of Life and Business with Cindy Jorgenson, BDA

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I still get nervous in front of large speaking engagements. I do. I still get nervous in front of large presentations, even if it's just a couple of people. In those moments, it's really easy to say, Cindy, you freaking summited Mount Kilimanjaro. You were 3.6 miles above sea level. You trekked 37 miles through altitude sickness, camping, frozen snots. Damn right I can stand up in front of an audience and talk to them about the power of branded merchandise. Like, this isn't even going to risk my life. This is easy compared to some of the other stuff I've done.

Cindy Jorgensen is the senior director of client services for $450 million distributor BDA. 22-year industry powerhouse with strong expertise in both operations and sales. In addition to multiple sales achievement awards and Pyramid Awards, in 2014 she was honored as Counselor Magazine's Woman of Distinction. In 2011, tiring of the beach vacations, Cindy took a risk on a small adventure that would eventually lead to some of the most harrowing vacations you could imagine, including swimming with great white sharks, climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, trekking through the Amazon jungle, and more. In 2018, Cindy was recognized as BDA's Sales Leader of the Year, which she says would not have happened had she not stepped out and began an incredible personal journey of risk and discovery. In his book, The Art of Travel, Alain de Botton said, all of us are involved in an inner journey. We might be searching for how to be calm or how to find a way to rethink our goals. Where we go should help us with our attempts at these steps in our evolution. The outer journey should assist with the inner one. For this to happen, we need to be clearer in our minds about both what we're searching for inside and what the outer world could conceivably deliver for us. Every destination we alight upon contains with it qualities that can support a person's inner journey. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, the Chief Content Officer at Common Skew. And in today's episode, I talk with Cindy about how her choice to begin a life of extreme adventure has infused and transformed her business adventure. We explore her multiple journeys and discover some amazing similarities between life as adventure and business as adventure. Cindy began her career in this business entering orders, and back in those early days, she observed the salespeople around her and made a list of the 6 traits and skills she found were common with the most successful of them. She still has that list, and we talk about it today. Also, Cindy shares some of the best advice I've ever heard on how to lift your head out of the daily chaos of a deadline-driven business, what she calls the whirlwind, to focus on proactive tasks and goals. It's a great conversation about calculated risk, thinking more adventurously, and flexing your courage muscle. And we tie it all to sales and to business. Quick note, we frequently have folks ask about upcoming events. One event you might want to earmark, SKUCon, sells out every year. If you want to be notified when registration opens, head to SkuCon.com and click on the Keep Me in the Loop button. This episode is brought to you by CommonsQ, the platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. Begin your free trial now at CommonsQ.com. Here's my conversation with BDA's Cindy Jorgensen. So, Cindy, so we can get an idea of the scope of your travels, can you tell me all the places you've been to?

Yeah, absolutely. So I started in Costa Rica in 2011 learning to surf. I'd always kind of looked at these surf movies and magazines and think, thinking, man, I want to learn to surf. And at that point, I thought, why can't I learn to surf? So I did. Since then, I've been to Tanzania, South Africa, Mozambique, a great little spot called the Silver Bank, which is a humpback whale breeding grounds between Turks and Caicos and the Dominican Republic. I've been to Peru, the Amazon jungle, Patagonia, the very southern tip of Chile, Roatan. I have been canoeing and portaging in the boundary waters of Minnesota, Havasupa Falls, near Las Vegas, Great Basin National Park. Those are just some of the places I have enjoyed very much.

Now, you said something earlier about in 2011, there was this moment where you decided you had done all the beach vacations, you'd sort of done the normal vacation stuff, but there was something inside you that was hungry for more in terms of adventure.

And I don't— I can't even tell you where it stemmed from. I think I watched too much television or too many National Geographic magazine as a kid. And yeah, you know, I didn't, I didn't grow up with, you know, a family that was like, hey, you can do anything. If you want to be a National Geographic photographer, you can. It just— I think my, um, insight to what was possible was, was a lot smaller. And as I got older, I started to realize, like, okay, I'm a strong, physically active person. I was fortunate enough to have a good income, and I thought Why can't I start to experience these things? What, what is holding me back? And I'm very much a numbers person when it comes to risk. And, you know, and I mean by numbers person when it comes to risk, well, like, you know, getting on an airplane. Some people have an extreme fear of airplanes. When you actually calculate the percentage of people that are injured or hurt on an airplane, it's very, very, very minute. I personally believe I'm not going to be one of that tiny, tiny percentage of people. And I think about that too with, yes, you can get bit by a great white shark when you're surfing. You absolutely can. You're in their home. But you know what? I'm going to learn to surf anyway because again, the percentage of people that surf that actually get bit is extremely tiny. And I don't want to let that stop me from something that I've longed to do for some time.

Or yeah.

If somebody else can do it, then I can freaking do it. Like, don't tell me I can't do it. That's the— that's, that's going to be, uh, what pushes me to do it is when you tell me I can't.

Right. And you got two things at play there then that force you outside of your comfort zone. You've got the, the attitude of don't— you know, this, this little rebellion in you that we all have, which is don't tell me what I can't do. And then number two, you have a very rational outlook on risk assessment. What were one or two of the most life-changing trips or experiences you ever had?

2012, summiting Mount Kilimanjaro, without a doubt, was a complete life changer for me. It was the first mountain I ever trekked. So yes, I start very, very big, I guess. And it all came about because I wanted to do a great white shark dive in South Africa, and I couldn't find anybody to go with me. But my girlfriend said, hey, I want to— I want to summit Mount Kilimanjaro. Let's, let's go do that. And I said, I don't climb mountains. And she said, well, I don't swim with sharks, so we're even. So within 2 weeks, I had done a bunch of research on Kili and great white shark cage dives. And 2 weeks later, we came back together and I said, I'm in if you're in. And she said, wait, I didn't realize we're actually gonna I want to dive with great white sharks. And I said, well, that's one day. You're asking me to spend 7 days on the side of a mountain in a tent carrying gear camping. I think if I can do that, you can do a shark dive. And that was, I remember, April 16th of 2012. And by the third week in July, I was on a plane to Africa.

Wow.

It happened that fast.

You know, we hear this, we hear this of folks that have climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. Give us an idea of what a day in the life is when you're climbing Mount Kilimanjaro?

Yeah, every day is different. So from the start of the trail to the summit, you pass major weather systems and ecological systems. Experts equate it to walking from the equator to the North Pole because you start in an extreme rainforest jungle with monkeys swinging through the trees. By day 3, you can turn around and see the clouds below you over the city of Arusha. And by day 5, if you're fortunate enough, which I was, to actually summit, you were standing, you know, 19,500 feet above sea level. You are surrounded by glaciers, sleet, wind, freezing. I grew up many years in Minnesota, and it was by far the most gear I'd ever worn in my entire life. And then the next, you know, day and a half, you repeat the process going back down. So it's You know, tent, guide group, sleeping on the side of a mountain, no shower, the filthy dirty coming from somebody who everyone knows I'm kind of the high-heeled suit girl. It was my extreme polar opposite and I loved every second of it.

What was the hardest part of that journey?

You know, the mental aspect of it. While I was in great shape, Nothing prepares you for that altitude sickness, and nothing prepares you for the physical strength that it takes. I would wake up every single morning completely stiff, bandaging blisters, filthy stinking bear— like, legs barely moving. And the first thing you do, you know, and you don't sleep well either. It's cold, it's loud, it's Altitude does crazy things to your breathing in the middle of the night. So you wake up without a good night's sleep, stiff like I imagine a 90-year-old person feels. And even as I'm trying to warm up my legs to take a normal step, I think to myself, I get to do it all over again today. I'm still here. And I went to bed every night and I kept a journal. And the first night I had written, today was the greatest night of my— greatest day of my life. The second day, today beat yesterday. It was the greatest day of my life. It was even better. And it just continued to happen. And the people that you meet along that trail, you're just connected with them. Everyone's your friend at that point, and everyone is striving. You're all working so hard to reach the same goal. And while they may not be in your group, you may only see them once a day, everyone is cheering for you and you're cheering for everybody. So it's this really great source of sense of community. Up there with people a little crazy just like you are. So I still talk to some of those people that I met on that trail.

It's really great. I hear the euphoria. I hear it can— and, you know, you mentioned greatest day of my life day 1, greatest day of my life day 2. Physically, it's so demanding, and you said it was a mental challenge as well. I don't know whether to ask, did you feel like giving up, or how many times did you feel like giving up?

I was at times absolutely miserable. That summit day— and this is going to gross out some listeners, you might want to censor this later— I had like an inch of frozen snot on the front of my jacket. I mean, it is so— okay, my— any part of skin exposed was completely chapped and frostbitten. You can go so slow, you're gasping for air every single time. And while I wanted I wanted to summit, I wanted to be successful, I wanted to be done, quite frankly. There is a point when you're like, okay, I want this to be over. But I was not turning around on that trail. It was not going to happen. You go one way up and one way down. And if you're going down the up trail, you've quit. And while I saw people who quit and my heart broke for them, that was not going to be me. I was—

Did that help drive you?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I had so many friends and so many people, and I told so many people I was doing it. I was not coming home and telling people I failed. It didn't matter how sick I was and how exhausted I was. There were certainly a few tears. I mean, it, it happened, but it just never crossed my mind that, that I was gonna quit. And I, I didn't. I mean, there I did need help at one point, um, which I learned the value of a team after summiting so sick and so exhausted. Um, I had to give up my backpack to my guide who carried it, which I didn't want to do that. I am fiercely independent. I want to do it all, all on my own. But I was so miserable and so sick and completely out of any sustenance and calories and all of that. And yeah, after a lot of negotiation, I finally admitted to let one of my guide members carry my backpack, which, you know, was only like 25 lbs. But at that point, it's a lot of wait when you're that exhausted. And that's when I also learned the power of, of people around you and having the right people around you and accepting their help when you need it and, and giving them help when they need it.

This leads to my next question. Um, what have you learned about adventure travel that has infused your life with purpose? Now, I also want to ask you this since we were just talking about it. I have a series of questions around what have you learned through this that, that, that affects your day-to-day and your business life. But one of the questions is, you know, you said to me once that the more extreme you get, the more you need people around you. What a beautiful quote for business too. Can you elaborate on that?

Yeah. So, I mean, that was a perfect example of me, you know, suffering on Kilimanjaro. And I could have continued to suffer that bad and to be more miserable and to put my body through even more pain at that point. And it was hard to let go. It was hard to say, you know what, I do need help. But when I did, and I realized, one, that's part of what I'm paying them for, right? But two, even with your own teams and in your own business, understanding what, what everybody's strengths and weaknesses are, and it's okay to to use them or to not use them. It is OK to say, even me as a sales director and I run this team, I'm weak in this area. So, you know, team member, please take this part of the project because you're going to do it a lot better than I, than I will, or I need your different perspective on this. And vice versa. Not every single person on anybody's team is going to have all of the needed skill sets or strengths that, that we need to run, to run business. And we need to help them understand Understand that, use them for what they are really, really good at, and be okay when they're not good at something. Then you go to another teammate to fill in that gap. And I mean, that, that has been incredible. Also, you know, scuba diving is one where, talk about needing people, you are tied with a buddy. You two are responsible. If there is an emergency, if my buddy has an emergency, I need to be that cool, calm person to help them. I mean, this is, this is true survival, if a tank fails and my buddy doesn't have air and we're 100 feet underwater, you can't just swim to the top. That is not an option. Your buddy saves you, or you drown, or if you don't drown, you can have serious, serious health impacts. So understanding, as fiercely independent as I am, I can't do it all on myself, and I need other people, and it is okay to ask for that.

Yeah, I've often thought that interdependence is one of the most vital ingredients for any successful team in this business because it's such a vast industry. There are so many variables, there's so many options, there's so many projects. You can't master everything in this business. You require other people. And the irony is that the strength that it takes a salesperson to, to go out and do a lot of things on their own At the same time, there's a requirement to pivot toward interdependence and to rely on others. And it requires humility, which some people might be surprised at. You don't typically equate a strong, hard-driven salesperson with the word humble, but it requires some humility.

And I think the most successful people have both, right? We have that cocky arrogance. You can't tell me no. I'm going to blow that budget out of the water. We have a bit of that honey badger personality. But then the best also say, you know what, this isn't my strong suit, and I need someone to help me with this part in order to be more successful at that part. You're right.

What did you learn about risk when it comes to adventure travel, and how does this equate to business?

Man, you know, it's so cliché, but the greater the risk, the greater the reward is truly truly a real thing out there. Some of the riskiest things that I've done that I've maybe had to convince myself to do, and believe me, I don't go into any of these blindly brave thinking this is going to be a piece of cake. I obsess about them. I worry about them leading up to it. I wonder what the F did I get myself into? In the middle of it, I often think the same thing. But when you complete it and you've done it and you can look back and think, my mental aptitude, my inner strength, my willpower, my decision to choose the help of a team got me to this success, that risk becomes less risky in the future. One of my favorite quotes is, courage is not the absence of fear, it's doing what you want or need in spite of the fear. Which I think plays, plays to what I, you know, said a minute ago is everything terrifies me. I'm still afraid of it. I just know one, that I can do it. And with every step it gets a— every risk I take, it gets a little bit easier. Yeah. Um, getting into that shark cage with surrounded by great white sharks was one of the riskiest things I've done. One of them was hitting the cage trying to figure out how to get in, which is the point I realized I am dressed to toe in a black rubber wetsuit. I look like the seal this thing has ever seen, and it's hungry. But I also was, you know, 12 inches from a great white shark with his teeth exposed, and I felt like I was living Shark Week in person. That's an experience I, I won't forget. Um, the Inca Trail is another one. That was the Inca Trail into Machu Picchu, was built to be extremely difficult so enemies could not reach Machu Picchu. That is how it was designed. And there I am with 4 women, times extreme heat, freezing, raining, soaked gear. Tent slid down a hill one time. I was in the middle of the forest with— or jungle— with 4 women, and there's a raging thunderstorm. And you live through that, and you do your— you know, what you learned in those situations, you implement the practices that you learned, and then you come out of the other side and you realize it was a phenomenal experience and you protected yourself and your things and your, your, you know, travel mates around you, and, and it was successful. And, and you're rewarded with these things that very few people have the opportunity to see. You know, 10,000 people a year summit Mount Kilimanjaro. That's a really small percentage of the population. A lot of people have taken the train into Machu Picchu, but a very small portion have done the trek up the Inca Trail into Machu Picchu. So knock on wood, everything I've attempted so far I've exceeded. And knowing that, again, my legs, my, my inner strength, my willpower got me there is incredible.

It's going to sound obvious, like I know the answer, but I want to hear it from you. Prior to 2011 and 2011 afterwards, after you've done these things, How has this adventure travel that you've done and these experiences you've had made you bolder in business? In business? Or do you, or do you think it just galvanized you? Did it make you more bold or did it just bring to the surface what was already there?

I think it was both. I think I had some of it there, which is what made me book these trips to begin with, right? Like I had to have some of that to say, okay, sure, I've never hiked a mountain. Now let's go do one of the largest in the world, right? So I had some of that. But what it's done to my confidence and my boldness and my willingness to take risks is off the charts. I still get nervous in front of large speaking engagements. I do. I still get nervous in front of large presentations, even if it's just a couple of people. In those moments, it's really easy to say, Cindy, You freaking summited Mount Kilimanjaro. You were 3.6 miles above sea level. You trekked 37 miles through altitude sickness, camping, frozen snots. Damn right I can stand up in front of an audience and talk to them about the power of branded merchandise. Like, this isn't even gonna risk my life. This is easy compared to some of the other stuff I've done. Or I, you know, scuba diving, as much as I wanted to do it, it was probably the most terrifying thing that I've learned to do.

How so? Because of the claustrophobia? Because of the— because being that close to the wildness of it all? What? Why?

All of it. Claustrophobia. We are not meant to breathe underwater. Between your tank, your gauges, your hoses, your safety equipment, your buddy, your straps, your weights, there is so much that has to be monitored and measured and perfect in order for for you to have a, a safe, injury-free dive, and still knowing everything can be perfect. You can have done everything you're supposed to do and still have a problem. And add to the fact that there's a lot of stuff in that water that will and can and might want to eat you, sting you, bite you. I mean, there's just a lot of unknowns in that area. Plus It's dark, it can be cold, you know, there's all that. But again, that's that risk-reward. Some of my most amazing experiences since pushing through that. And oh, by the way, I needed a team of incredible people to help me overcome that fear, and I still rely on people when I scuba dive. But it's some of the greatest experiences I've, I've had. I mean, diving underwater and a pod of dolphins swims by you Doing what dolphins do to me is incredible. Even, you know, an eel that pops out of a hole you're staring into and bounces off your mask— luckily I didn't get hit or didn't get bit, he did, you know, hit my mask— is something I would never experience if I didn't overcome that fear and, and push myself through it. And using that in business That confidence that it gives me, these, um, you know what some people would say life-threatening experiences, knowing I can do that makes business better. The flexibility you need to have in travel definitely plays into a part in business.

You know, this also, um, what's obvious, the boldness in the risk and adventure, calculated risk all makes sense. We can all sort of realize how that would have an impact. But really, it's almost as if you get a crash course in practical problem solving. I mean, this business is nothing but problem solving. And you— that's all you were doing on these trips was problem solving all the time.

Constantly, constantly. They never go as you think. And well, I mean, I know we travel a lot. A lot of people in this, in this industry travel a lot for shows and client meetings. And we've dealt with all of it— missed flights, lost luggage, all of this. But the more remote you get, the small issues become bigger problems, and things come up that you don't think of. Like when I was leaving Tanzania, 4:30 in the morning flight, nearly empty airport— I use the word airport loosely— um, when I went to check in, obviously, very obviously a tourist, blonde hair, carrying a backpack, I stand out. Uh, the airline desk attendant advises me that they had just instituted a $30 US per person American tax, which was official, um, because he pulled a crumpled up Post-it note out of his pocket saying it was official. We all know it wasn't official. I mean, we all know this guy was finding a way to make $30 extra US dollars. But to compound this situation— well, and what am I going to do? Like, Arusha TSA doesn't exist. Arusha police aren't going to help me. This guy's He's obviously bribing me, but I don't have any options. To make matters worse, there wasn't an ATM at the airport that gave American dollars. It gave shillings only. I'm 50 minutes from my flight departing. I can't get in a cab to get to an ATM. I'd given every US dollar I had to my guide group because I was on Kilimanjaro the day before and they took such good care of me. I wanted to give them as much. I didn't have any money. So the girlfriend that I traveled with said, you're in sales. Go sell someone into giving us money. And I thought, you gotta be kidding me. But that is when I learned when I'm desperate enough, I can beg for money and people will give me money. So I literally stood outside of that airport and anyone that looked like they may have US dollars, I begged them. But I also told them, make sure you have $30 for yourself because you're gonna have to pay it as well. So, you know, that's just one of of many things.

Just thought your adventure was over with Kilimanjaro, and you're right, it's like done.

Yeah, but yeah, I wanted to get out, and I couldn't fight with this guy, you know. I couldn't argue. I, I didn't have a leg to stand on. So he got his $60, which he smiled, and because I collected for myself and my girlfriend, and he put it right in the front pocket of his slacks. I mean, it's—

wow. Well, yeah, some, some listeners are going to be a little irritated maybe that I didn't camp out a little bit on this great wild experience. What did you learn from that? What was the, what was, what was the most harrowing part of that?

People that are, um, surfing and scuba diving without a cage in South Africa are completely nuts. I mean, that to me, I thought— and again, go back to my, my calculation, my risk calculation earlier— but man, there are a lot of sharks in that area. The biggest thing is As much as I can be a bit of a rule breaker and like to do my own things, there are times when you, you just don't do that. And that is certainly one of them, paying very, very close attention to all of your surroundings, what the people are doing around you. You know, I was in a cage with 7 people and one of them making a wrong move or having a limb outside of the cage or something could have, you know, negative impacts on, on the entire cage. So, and to me, I am such a wildlife buff. I am that, that person that dreamed of being a scientist, it, it made me realize that while I'm not a scientist, I can still have these incredible experiences and, you know, kind of achieve some of these childhood dreams as an adult without having to be a marine biologist. So the only thing stopping us from these experiences is ourself and thinking we can't or we don't have the means or we don't know how to do it. Really just experiencing it. But I, I recommend it. Now, I will also say I will never do it again. I do not need to be that close to anything that physically wants to and can rip me to pieces. Check, done, bucket list scratched off. That, that is a no repeat. But I do think, I do encourage everybody to try it. It's an amazing experience.

Entrepreneurship and sales is anything if not adventure and risk and all these things we've been talking about. I've always equated adventure with business. Our outside lives infuse our inside lives, if you will. Our outside work infuses the work that we do on a day-to-day basis. Most of the successful people I know and respect have an adventurous life outside of work. And by that, I don't mean necessarily physically adventurous, but they cultivate curiosity in other passions. How do we cultivate a more curious and adventurous life outside of our adventure known as work?

You know, the easiest way is to think back to that childhood. You know, what did you want to do? What did you dream of? Or even now, like, when you think about, you know, what it is that you love, find a new way to do that. For example, wildlife photography is pretty easy, right? Get out more into nature. And you don't have to go as extreme as I do to go into the Amazon jungle for 2 weeks or go to the southern tip of Chile to photograph this unique penguin colony that's out there. But maybe it's your local forest where you sit quietly and watch wildlife and photograph them. Maybe it is that trip to Cabo and you add on a whale sightseeing adventure to get you closer to that. But maybe it's more simple than that. Maybe it's food. Maybe it's you absolutely love Italian food, so go to Italy, but instead of just going to the restaurants and eating Italian food, go take Italian cooking classes. And if you don't want to do the cooking, if you're not into cooking, you're just into eating, there's, there's great ways you can check that box too. For example, I found a company called EatWith. They're all over the world. They're similar to an online dating app but for chefs. So you can go to any part of Italy, check your EatWith app, find a private chef. Many of them run phenomenal restaurants, and they will they will do dinner in their home for tourists. So it's usually 6 to 10 people. You go to their home, you watch them cook, they teach you about the food, the culture, and everything. And you sit down and you have dinner with tourists just like you, often from all over the world, but in a very small setting. So that, to somebody, can be very adventurous. It's really just different and pushing outside of what you normally do. But just look at, look at what you love. Look at what you've been thinking about or what you'd like to do, but you might be too fearful to do it. And find small ways to get there, to build up your courage and to flex that courage muscle until you can get to what that kind of greater goal is. You know, I've now Because of my travels and because of people I've met along the way, I have met an incredible world-renowned humpback whale research scientist. And because of him, I've been able to play research scientist. I biopsied a humpback whale from a Zodiac using a crossbow. So I, I remembered way back as a little kid thinking that I wanted to train whales at SeaWorld.

SeaWorld.

That was before I was educated, before I knew how just terrible SeaWorld is, and I will never ever do that. But because I went to the Silver Bank and swam with humpback whales in their breeding grounds, because I've gone whale watching in Washington, because I've done all these little steps, things fell into place. I met Pierre, we became friends, he invited me, and before you know it, I'm biopsying a humpback whale and helping him study the impact of Fantastic on their migration and on their species. So again, little baby steps lead to that big leap, and before you know it, you're like, wow, I'm literally living the childhood dream that there was a time I never thought I was going to be able to realize. So start somewhere, start small, just keep working towards it.

I love that advice. You know, Nietzsche has a quote, um, become the person you really are.

That's great.

And you personify that. And I love your advice, how practical it is. What's fascinating too is that in 2011, when you started these adventures, I don't know if you knew back then when you thought, I just want to learn surfing, if in your future was Kilimanjaro and Great White and all of these things. But I love your advice about taking small, but also tapping back into those dreams of really who we are and what we want to do, whether it's those childhood dreams or the dreams we've since accumulated on our journey.

Absolutely. I agree.

Let's talk about business a little bit. It's funny, I wanted to get into the adventure right away so that when we talked about business, we could see where you're coming from. Can you paint a picture of what your normal day of business life— we— I read your bio at the beginning of the podcast. You're involved in leading the sales for the largest organization in the $24 billion industry. Can you paint a picture of what your normal day in business life consists of? A good, good way of answering this is like, what's on your day best guess?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, although I don't know that there's any normal in this industry, um, forever.

Everybody just said amen, but go ahead.

Yeah, yeah, um, I do. I run sales teams for BDA. I have my pod, as we call them, and I am responsible, um, for that entire team and account management within that. It is obviously profit center, so driving revenue margins, maximizing contracts, making sure any roadblocks that might be in the way for my sales team are cleared so they can go and just sell. Right now, today, on my to-do list, I'm look— I have a couple of my client contracts out, making sure that we're maximizing those as we get closer to the end of the year.

Maximizing meaning what in terms of gross sales, or making sure you're doing everything you can to re-win those contracts, to renegotiate those contracts?

Both. Making sure we're maximizing the margins that we're allowed out of a contractual margin, identifying all areas of revenue If one is, you know, nearing contract renewal, working on that extension before it goes out for RFP, monitoring the growth within the, within the account to see if I need to add team members to make sure as we grow, we don't, you know, slip on our SLAs. A lot of coaching and mentoring salespeople, getting them to, you know, think bigger and more strategic and pulling them up out of the weeds. We are already working on 2020 Olympic activities. Activations. We have a lot of clients that activate for that. Q3, Q4 is always extremely busy. So making sure as much proactive work is being done now, getting ahead of projects so they don't quote unquote sneak up on us later.

Sandy, let me ask, let me interject with something real practical. And I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is such a burning question because the economy is doing well.

Doing well.

We have many businesses who are doing well, and some businesses who are struggling. But, but we all struggle in this business to get out of the weeds and to focus down the road and lift our head. You train teams in this business. You've been doing this for years. What have you learned practically about that?

We get sucked into the day-to-day minutiae. We call it at BDA the whirlwind. You are so sucked into the whirlwind, you lose you lose that strategy time and you lose that proactive time. And it really, really is a discipline. So I start every morning looking at too many emails on my desk or in my inbox, too many meetings on my calendars, too much stuff to do on my to-do list. And my focus on is what are 2 to 3 things that I can do right now that is going to move the sales needle? That Well, I have this huge amount of thing I'm responsible for. BDA pays me to move that sales needle. So what, what are those two major, major things that I can check off right now that are going to do that? Once that's done, then let's get back to the whirlwind because you still have to manage that. You have to— you just can't manage that full time and miss the rest of it. And I've also learned if you ignore some of that whirlwind a little bit, and I'm not saying ignore the major stuff that's blowing up, but I'm saying you know what you can ignore or not. Sometimes those things work themselves out even without you, and that's how it should be. So it's really truly that discipline. And Bobby, I admit I'm not perfect. I still sometimes, and I think it's been 2 days and I haven't talked to a single client, that's a problem. So it's truly, truly that discipline, but, you know, really helping those teams teams in, in complete transparency of where we sit today, where we're going, and with them figuring out how we need to do to get there. That is how I like to spend my days.

Yeah. What have been some of the biggest, you know, adventures, so to speak, in your business? The wins and losses that you've had in business? I'd be curious about this because you've, you've had a great career, you've got a great career ahead of you. I'm curious what sticks out in your mind formative wins?

No, man, I gotta say, I am— last year, well, for 2018, the award ceremony was in January of 2019. BDA named me Sales Leader of the Year, and I have to say, it is one of the proudest moments of my career. I joined BDA because they are the largest merchandise agency. They are the forefront of this industry. They are doing amazing things. Quite frankly, I was tired of losing to them in previous companies. I'd looked at them from from afar in my 20-year industry thinking, man, these guys are the best. And then they hired me. And then 4 years later, they named me their sales director of the year. So, all this stuff I've been doing in my career and had it not been for the adventure travel that I'd been on, had it not been for pushing myself, I would not have accepted the position. I would not have left my friends and family and moved from Minnesota to Seattle, Washington. I would not have joined. That has definitely been one of my biggest business adventures and, and my most celebrated accomplishment. When I, when I accepted that award, that to me was fantastic. We've all had those misses though, right? I, you know, I had— this was years ago— long-term client, 10-plus years, multimillion dollars in business. We were aligned, we were connected. My contact got promoted. Their person's replacement came in. We lost the business in like 3 months. That person had another person. We've all heard it, right? They had a friend. They did that. They brought their own company in. Years and years of success was gone very quickly. And I hadn't built and established a great pipeline. I had all my eggs in one basket. It. And so that was a really big reality check that, man, it doesn't matter how good you have it, it doesn't matter how loyal you think clients are, you must always continue to develop that pipeline. You're going to lose them eventually. At some point, something's going to happen. Nothing is indefinite, especially in, in today's business. So that was, that was one of my biggest Biggest losses for sure. It was, it was painful.

You know what I love is tying in your thoughts about no matter how well prepared you have been, no matter how out on the venture trail, whatever it is you're doing, you've done everything right and something can go wrong. And that's just a direct corollary to business too. And that's what you just shared. You have seen enough success to know what these skills and traits are, but you also train salespeople What have you observed in salespeople as the most successful traits, or what advice would you give if a young professional sat across from you having coffee and she said, Cindy, I've seen your career, I've seen what you're doing, are there essential traits, are there essential skills, what are the most important things that I should know in a quick over coffee kind of chat?

Yeah, you know, when I, um, started in this business, I was truly entry level. I mean, I was data entering orders and then I was promoted and kind of moved moved up the chain, and I made a list. I knew I wanted to be in sales, and I watched the salespeople, and I made a list of things that I realized they all had. And many of these things I did not have, so I truly worked to get to that, to develop those skills. And I still have this list today. The first one is being engaging and entertaining, really working on being able to walk into a room where you know nobody I mean, you don't have any connections. It's not just a matter of introducing yourself and swapping business cards, but it is starting and engaging in real conversations and developing rapport with people so that they remember you, they open up to you, and they want to do business with you. We have to be a jack of all trades. We have to know a lot. We will go from You know, brainstorming a creative piece of merchandise to suggest with a client, to brainstorming how we're going to get UPS to deliver a package 2 days earlier than they intend to order a packet, you know, deliver a package to managing a P&L for your account. You either personally have to have these multiple, multiple skills, or you have to have people around you that have these skills.

What else was on that list?

You said engaging and entertaining, being creative, both from an art marketing standpoint but from a problem-solving standpoint, being nimble. I, I noticed these salespeople would be very flexible in their day and their work and their time. A project would go down path 1, you'd get a call from the client, you immediately have to pivot to a second path, and being okay with that and using your problem solving skills for that. Being thick-skinned. Sales in this business can be tough, boy. I mean, we all know it. Either your client's mad at you, your team is mad at you, your support team is mad at you. I mean, someone somewhere seems to be mad about something, and you're just trying to keep everybody happy. Being thick-skinned to know when a supplier person truly just made an error and that product is going to deliver late, but you're getting your butt chewed by the client that you promised is going to be No wig. It's not a personal thing for you. Negotiating is a skill that all of those salespeople had, being really good negotiators. And this last one took me a while, but partnering with your supply chain.

Oh yes.

You know, the first man I worked for in this business had the, the philosophy that we're their client and they do what we say. And I had that, that same experience. And actually, Sean Connack, which I'm sure many people on this call know, helped me realize years later that that's not the best way to do business. The best way is to partner with those suppliers, empathize with what they're going through, and what it— understanding what it truly takes to get an order done in this business from the supplier side, and being empathetic with all of their other demands to say, okay, if you can't do this this. What can you do so we can get to that? And having those conversations instead of just taking this different approach of, I'm your client and you need to do what I say.

Yeah, I'm just like you. It took me years to learn that lesson. Years. So I love this. I'm going to recap. We have 6. We have being engaging and entertaining. Number 2, creative. Number 3, nimble. Number 4, thick skin. Number 5, negotiating. Number 6, partnering with your supply chain. All of this matches perfectly to your adventure travel. What's your next adventure?

Gorilla trekking. I want to go to the Bwindi Impenetrable Forest in Africa, and I want to trek through the jungle until I find silverback gorillas that I can photograph for myself. And it's going to be hot, and it's going to be sweaty, and it's going to be buggy, and it's going to be muddy, and it's going to be miserable. I know it. I've been in enough jungles to know. In In fact, the 3 women that I convinced to go to the Amazon jungle have sworn they will never go to another jungle again. It's really that hard and that terrible. But the reward I got is worth it. And silverbacks are one of those species that are probably not going to survive our generation, and I want to see them before they're gone. So that's my next big goal. Big one for sure.

That adventure sounds just like prospecting for new business.

Yes, a good point.

Yeah, uh, Cindy, before we close, anything else you wanted to talk about or anything we missed?

Yeah, you know, I, I would be remiss— and anybody who follows me on Facebook or Instagram knows this is a passion of mine— I would be remiss if I didn't talk about our industry and the impact that we have this planet. You know, I have been to some of the highest points of the earth and into some, some deep depths of the ocean, and one consistent thing that I see is plastic. We are truly, in our personal lives, in our business lives, everywhere infusing more and more plastic onto this planet. And this travel and these things that I've seen I think one of the photos I sent to you for this podcast is a photo of me scuba diving carrying a plastic bucket that I had found 100 feet underwater. I hope that we as an industry start to really, really focus on the impact that we have and to help educate our clients. Simple things like, yes, I know that t-shirt looks better in a plastic poly bag, But understanding that that plastic poly bag is going to be on this earth for 100 or 200 years, is that second or two of you handing that t-shirt to that person in a poly bag, is that worth the impact? If we are selling a reusable straw, which is phenomenal to reduce plastic straws, but if we're doing that and that's in a plastic poly bag, Is that really helping us achieve our goal, or is the packaging, is the waste from a trade show, the things that we just dispose of, are these as important? We can't find another alternative. Maybe it's a few more cents for a biodegradable poly bag and us educating our clients that we can achieve these same goals. Goals and, and do these things while not impacting the client and, and, or the planet in such a negative impact. So that's just my personal soapbox, one of the things that I've seen, one of the things I strive for in my personal life and in my business life. And I hope that as an industry we can all think of that as well and, and just think twice about some of these things. And as we're showing them to clients Yes.

Cindy, thank you for your inspiration. You're such an incredible example of fortitude and patience and hustle. Thank you for that example, and thanks for joining us on the SkewCast.

Absolutely. And anybody out there, if you ever want to talk branded merchandise or travel, I'm happy. Reach out to me. I'd love to talk both.

Awesome. Thanks, Cindy.

Thank you, Bobby.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of SkewCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.