Episode 148: Creatives Who Care with Joe and Lucas from Rowboat Creative

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

Oh man, I actually had to change where the confirmation emails are being sent to because my, my email box is over 2,000 emails every single day now.

You might recall an episode we recorded last summer at Rowboat Creative in the heart of Chicago. Lucas Garriglia and Joe Zangrilli founded Rowboat in their basement. After spending 10 years as touring musicians, they hit their stride with a unique take on merch, creating experiences through product before we ever coined the term experiential marketing. Their all-star lineup of clients includes folks like Joe Fresh Goods, Chance the Rapper, Live Nation, Nike, and more. We wanted to revisit Rowboat for two reasons. One, they launched an incredible initiative called Creatives Who Care to help businesses and organizations like restaurants and the music industry who are impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. And two, we wanted to catch up with Joe and Lucas because Rowboat was started in the middle of a recession. So when coronavirus hit and businesses had to close, Joe and Lucas went back to their roots, back to the basement, literally and figuratively, to hammer out new ideas. Today, we talk about how they are using merch and e-commerce to give back, forge new relationships, while keeping their dream alive. Hi friends, this is Bobby LeHew, the Chief Content Officer at Common Skew. I want to invite you to a very special experience on Thursday, May 21st called SkewCon at Home. It's a gathering like none you've attended before with keynotes, breakouts, and one-to-one networking featuring a host of positive voices. SkewCon at Home is our way of bringing the community of innovators and explorers together to share ideas, rebuild, and renew. You can learn more at commonsku.com/skuconathome. This episode is brought to you by Commonsku, the work from anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more or to begin your free trial now, visit commonsku.com. Now here's my conversation with Joe and Lucas. Give us a brief glimpse of what life has been like for you both and your business since COVID Lucas, do you want to go first?

And then I want to turn to Joe and I have specific questions for each of you.

Honestly, I mean, it has been, I think, the roller coaster that everybody else is on. It's just one day, not even daily, just hourly. It feels like one hour is extremely productive and positive. And then that literally turns itself on its head the next hour. You know, it just, I feel like I'm torn in so many different ways physically and mentally and ethically. I think on my side and just for both of us collectively, we feel like we are absolutely busier than ever, but in a different sense. You know, we're just, we're focusing on completely different things because we have to in survival mode. But yeah, I mean, I just, I feel I feel very confused. I feel confused, and yet I feel extremely focused and sharpened. So, and that in itself is confusing.

Yeah, so true.

Joe?

Yeah, I, I'm, I'm with Lucas on that. It's a— the first thing we did when this all went down, after we started, you know, reading the writing on the walls Uh, which actually I'd like to say, when we realized— when I realized that it was gonna go down the way that it did, Lucas and I were invited to M&R, uh, the place that makes our machines. And when we got there in their war room— it was a war room— they had a massive screen watching the outbreak. And this was in— what was that in, Luke? Was that in, uh, February, or was it even end of January?

Um, honestly, I don't— it was 10 years ago at this point, right? A previous life, right?

I mean, these guys knew about it, but, um, so I mean, once that start with— that started soaking in, we, you know, we— I went back to the basement where Lucas and I started this all. And my, what was our screen printing shop in my basement is now a recording studio. And, you know, like the first couple weeks, I was just locked down there trying to come up with a new vision for how we could make this work. And, you know, we came up with a new initiative called Creatives Who Care, where we are helping, you know, businesses and artists connect with their patrons and fans. And, you know, every purchase we are giving, like, literally all, all the money, uh, you know, besides the production and tea, it goes directly to the, the service. And we, you know, we just, we'd never shut it off. We immediately went into, you know, when we were trying to come up with Rowboat, we went right back into that mode, came up with this, launched it, and jumped into that. But yeah, like, like Lucas was saying, is it's, it's, it's so confusing because we'll come up with the great idea, we're in heaven, and then the next morning, you know, the, your, your feet get knocked out from under you and yeah, it's like, wow. So we're, you know, we're back on that roller coaster.

Yeah.

Lucas, let's kick it over to you. Tell us about Creatives Who Cares, and then I'll ask Joe about it too. How did this come about?

I think like Joe said, you know, the biggest thing that happened was we, you know, given our background and coming from the basement, you know, we've already, you know, when you, Mark, and I sat down the first time, we kind of dug into, you know, just the fire that's behind us and really that kind of entrepreneurial mentality. And so what was just really interesting was diving right back into that kind of instinctually. And so like Joe said, we really had no choice. I mean, you know, for him personally, he was back in the basement, um, you know, cause that's where we needed to kind of focus on things. Me being remote, it was just a different experience. But so we flipped back into that mode really quickly. And I think that's what is helping us really kind of carry through. And also just knowing that when we started Robot Creative, I mean, it literally was in the heart of the recession. And so I think our mentality has been that, look, we made it through that. We made it out of a basement to this. And so I don't think we've ever been afraid really of anything in the business world. And our mentality is let's run right into the fire, let's figure it out, and we will come out on top. So that was the initial burst of energy that was there and really still there because we had no other choice, you know, we had been holding in our back pocket for some time, you know, we work with tons of different nonprofit organizations, a lot of amazing ones that are in Chicago, a lot of amazing ones that are national. But so we've always had that ethos about us of just wanting to give back and being as part of the creative side of us and artists at heart, how do we do that? And so really quickly, we realized that we've been The things that we've been doing, whether the production, merch production, fulfillment, e-commerce stuff, that was simple to us. We've been doing it for so many years. So how do we just create that platform that is able to give back very easily, very seamlessly, very transparent? And so that's kind of where the concept came. We put our heads together and just said, let's do something that is really taking the models that are out there that we've seen from other peers and competitors and just people around in the industry in general, and let's do it different. I mean, we try to do everything different. So, you know, the model was, like Joe said, kind of really flipped on its head and saying, let's not make this about margin for us as a company, for Robo Creative. The conversations that we've had with the partners who have jumped on, the businesses that we're helping, the creatives that we're helping, are very simple and very very transparent. It is a simple two-way street of saying, look, the concept of this is that we are raising direct funds and immediate funds that will go to whatever your needs are, whether that's, you know, your funding, your overhead, your lights, your bills, whatever it is. And the only thing that is keeping us alive on the back end is the fact that we know that whether it's 5 t-shirts that sell, whether it's 10,000 of them, that we're able to guarantee production hours to some of our staff. So, you know, that's really it. I mean, there's not a big conspiracy behind it and, you know, kind of blanket that is us raking in tons of money. It's very clear. I mean, we're, we're just, we're taking our raw cost of production and then everything else is going towards the people that we're helping. So it's been simple and clean. Yeah.

Give us a snapshot of what a successful campaign looks like. So if I'm a restaurant or if I'm a business, I partner with you guys and how does that work?

So very easy. I mean, we threw everything out the window. You know, there's no setup costs. We're taking that all on our, on our back. There's no monthly cost. So we very quickly will get the campaign together. If you need our help with design stuff, we're doing that. If you have logo stuff you need worked on, then we're doing that as well. For us, it's just been the immediacy. The quicker that we can get something up, the quicker the formula starts happening and money starts being raised. So, you know, we've been, again, very transparent with how the funding works. So, you know, for example, if a t-shirt is being sold for $25, a very basic, you know, gilden shirt with a one-color front, we're saying that $18 of that is literally going direct towards that funding. So, you know, that in itself is just completely flips everything on its head because we see a lot of other platforms that are out there that are sell a shirt for $20, $10 of that goes towards, you know, the fund and $10 goes back to the company. And, and, and look, we've all been in the industry long enough. We know how much a t-shirt costs and how much a one-color print is. So, you know, our mentality was strength in numbers. The more campaigns that we can have out there doing something is helping everybody. But at the same time, the idea for it is really that ethical side of it. Let's put that money where it needs to be. Yes, we need money for the company to keep our doors open, but some of these people just need money to eat and keep their pay their rent and pay their bills.

Yeah.

Let me ask this of both of you, Joe.

What's been your favorite campaign through Creatives Who Cares?

Well, Lucas has been crushing it with, with, with the onslaught of different customers that are coming to us. And we just did the Blackhawks, the Chicago Blackhawks, our hockey team. And oh man, I actually had to change where the confirmation emails are being sent to because my, my, my email box is over 2,000 emails every single day now.

So let me understand this right. The Blackhawks hockey team, were they a client before?

Yeah. So we've been— I mean, we've, we've done a lot of scaling up with them. I mean, they're, they're an amazing organization. They have an amazing, you know, nonprofit part wing of the Blackhawks as well. So it was just kind of natural over the last year, year and a half that we've been scaling up with them in terms of creating these these not arts programs, but, you know, kind of artist initiatives where we're helping connect some of our network to them as well as, you know, bring some incentive to some of their giveaway packages, some onsite branding stuff. So it was kind of a no-brainer. I mean, we were just, the first thing I think that we did was just, let's just start talking. It wasn't even, you know, this program is not something that it was something that we were looking to be predatory. It was just, let's have conversations with everybody around. Let's see where everybody's heads are at. Everybody wants to help, but, you know, everybody's really kind of not sure what move to make. And so we just said, let's, let's make the first move. Let's do something and let's reach out to everybody that we know just to let them know that, hey, we still exist. We're going to be here. We're going to be okay. Can we help you? Can you help us? Um, and it, it really kind of, it, it just, it flared up very, very early on. I mean, the Blackhawks, you know, that's something that we only recently just launched. Um, but you know, like Joe said, it's been extremely successful. We've hit hard with a lot of larger restaurants in Chicago too. Steppenwolf Theater has been huge. I mean, we're just looking for pretty much any— I mean, we've had, you know, there's smaller cycle studios in Maryland that, you know, we've been helping. There's a supermarket in Pittsburgh that we've helped. So it's pretty expansive.

One thing that we do, like Luke was talking about, you know, that we wipe the screen charges and all that stuff. The first thing we did was we actually build the actual store for the company that we want. You know, like when we were reaching out in the reaching out phase, we would actually build the site and make the product and have it live and then pitch it to the person, be like, this is it.

That strategy.

Oh, you want to just go, right? They got 100 calls that day of, hey, would you want to sell a t-shirt? You know, we could go half season. But ours, you know, I mean, we still— I still talk to Lucas. Like, even last night I was like, how do we, you know, trim the fat on this so we could give more money, more of a portion back? And yet, like, we know if it's working for us, but for me, I'm a robot and I could handle, you know, the work and stuff. But, you know, we don't want to be predatory.

With Creative Who Cares, The Blackhawks— I'm reading this from your website— the Blackhawks designed this Chicago-inspired t-shirt. You guys designed this t-shirt to highlight the allegiance to our city from our team. You produce and distribute the shirts. For every shirt produced, 100% of the net proceeds will go towards the Chicago Community COVID-19 Response Fund. Through Creatives Who Care, is every project then targeted toward a different charity, or is it also Is there also a portion of this targeted to just keeping some of these businesses afloat, like a restaurant, for example?

Yeah, that's, that's a good point. So the way that we really kind of vetted out is saying that, look, if there's somebody that reaches out, I mean, now it's, it's, it's gained, you know, some momentum. So, you know, our outreach is not really there because we just have so much capacity to handle right now as for fielding questions. So a lot of the people who are just reaching out, you know, a lot of them are just very heartfelt. I mean, we've had some amazing artists and creatives in Chicago that are literally just saying, you know, I'm, you know, Jamila Woods is one of them. Her campaign did really, really well. And, you know, it was a situation that is, here's a Chicago poet that unfortunately cannot perform, cannot do, you know, what she needs to do as, you know, an artist or a musician or whatever. And so everybody has got bills. And so we're just looking at it as like, look, let's just make sure we understand and we are all very transparent with where funds are going. Because I think we've seen enough in working, you know, in just in the industry alone and seeing that there are a lot of predatory platforms that are out there. So, you know, if you are very clean and just saying, look, here's where this money is going, here's how it's going to go there, you know, that's been, I think, very helpful for us just to be real and be human and say, look, if you need money for us to help you keep your bills paid, that's where this is going. So each, each person, you know, whether it's a business or a creative, you know, we work with them on the mission statement, you know, we vet out where those funds are going to make sure that it is clean so that it's not like we're just handing over checks and that, you know, goes in somebody's pocket. So I don't know, I mean, it's, it's, I think even beyond the whole pandemic situation, like I said, it's something that has been in our back pocket, and it definitely has legs and it has momentum. So there's no reason why, why this will not continue to exist even beyond this whole situation. Because I love that. The reality is that, you know, it's unfortunate that there, there will be things in the future, hopefully not of this size in terms of a pandemic, but, you know, whether it's a hurricane or, you know, if something happens to a music venue and they're forced to close or, you know, something. So like, we just want to be there at the heart of it and just saying, we can help. We know our platform, we know that we can create amazing product. And so what can we do to help raise funds for whatever those needs are?

What did you do different with the technology that makes this a seamless experience and a beautiful experience for the consumer or the end user and even the customer?

We've been to, you know, to tons of web stores. We've seen lots of things. And one thing we did not want, we did not want this to turn into go shopping for causes. We wanted it to be a direct connection between the business and their patron, or an artist and their fan. And what— so the only way you could get to the actual purchase is to have the link. And so what we do is, once the campaign is launched, we actually provide, uh, you know, the assets for the, the business or the artist to promote on social media. There's a, you know, there are— it's all— it's got a congruent look, you know, because all the assets look the same. So once you start looking across, across the board, you'll realize what it is. But you could— I mean, you can't— I can't send you something for one restaurant and you wind up, you know, donating to someone else. It's got to be a connection. And, you know, we We wanted to make sure that it, you know, this is truly to help the business or artist who the campaign is.

What I love about that, number one, you're providing your customer the assets so they don't have to do the heavy lifting on all that and it just gets a smoother, faster transaction. Number two, in this environment, in this climate, in the way the economy is and in the way the human heart is, we all want to help the causes that are closest to us. And so this creates more of an intimate connection as opposed to now everybody go buy this. I love that. Yeah, absolutely. Congrats to you guys on this. It's an amazing story. And it's no surprise given that you guys have both been these scrappy sort of sophisticated DIYers, these, you know, these musicians who had to figure it out the whole way. We talked about that in our first episode. Um, let me ask you, outside of Creatives Who Cares, what opportunities are you seeing now outside of it? Like, um, are you seeing, are you, you mentioned masks, are you seeing other business opportunities emerge that that you didn't expect?

So early on, I think what was very tough to wrap our heads around was, you know, just being ethical, you know, being responsible, and also just what needed to happen. So, you know, everybody saw, especially in the industry, the demand for masks came out of the woodwork. And so, you know, we were on the front lines of that, and we were making sublimated masks. We were doing, you know, what we could not to, create a secondary revenue stream for us, but just so that we had something that we could either donate, we could use internally for, you know, we didn't— we still have yet to even put our foot forward and to open up, you know, the market for what we're doing in terms of masks. I think that that was something that, you know, we literally talked on that day in and day out, and I would kind of flip-flop back and forth and just say, I just, it just doesn't feel right to me. I just, we can't do it. You know, it doesn't, it also just doesn't seem responsible. You know, it was, it was amazing that the entire world, you know, wanted to be on the front lines and say, all right, let's grab any sort of material and start making masks and donate these. But at the end of the day, everybody started seeing how quickly all of a sudden, you know, people were bringing in KN95s and those were rated for hospital and then those got kicked out. And so we just didn't want to be any part of the potential problem of arming people with these things and then having them not be safe. So I don't know. I mean, we definitely see the opportunity for masks. I mean, we've been helping a lot of people with those as much as we can. But in terms of other business opportunities, I think, you know, everybody saw the PPE stuff go out of control too. And so, you know, in the background, we've been helping just use our sourcing and our pipeline, not to, to be making margin on that stuff, but really to connect people who need that direct to source. So, I mean, I've had a tie-in with a couple different Chicago hospitals, and I literally have just sent over, you know, if they needed masks or gowns and just said that, hey, we can get this, here's what it is. And I'm in full transparency. Here's exactly what we're paying for it. And here's exactly what you will pay for it. And that's it.

So let me ask you both this, and you both would likely have a different perspective. What advice do you have for other entrepreneurs in this current climate? And trust me, I know when I ask that question, it's a very loaded question. All of us have more questions than answers. But maybe this is also through the lens of what you've learned so far. You know, what would you say to other folks?

I think you should use your powers for good. You know, I mean, don't— I just, I can't get past people who try to profit off people's misery. So, I mean, I immediately go to, you know, like everyone in the community, help everyone in the community. So, I mean, whatever you're good at, try to bend what, you know, what your normal business is to assist, you know, and get creative. I mean, we, Lucas and I, have never been the kind of people to sit and wait for someone to do something for us. And, you know, like he said, you know, a rowboat came out of, uh, you know, the, the economy crashing in— what was it, like 2005, '06, whatever it was. Now, now we got the pandemic. I mean, that, you know, you got to get creative and just keep moving. And, you know, not everything is about money, uh, but you do need money to make your dreams happen. But yeah, you try to, you know, if you do the right thing— I, I mean, I know this is, you know, a goofy way of thinking, but I feel like if I'm doing the right thing, eventually something cool will happen to me. And if it doesn't, that's— if it doesn't just keep going.

It—

you don't—

it's not about you, it's about the greater good. And which is what we're seeing right now with one person's health on the other side of the world affect everybody. And so, I mean, I, I— one thing I'm hoping is that, you know, maybe this just brings us all a little closer. And, you know, maybe it helps you find the other people in your community to like new businesses might emerge from here, like super groups and all sorts of cool stuff. So yeah, just, yeah, you know, just, you know, don't bury your head in the sand. Get online or however you, you meet people and, you know, see what, you know, everyone could band together to do. Because we are not just working just as Rowboat. I mean, in fact, the Creatives Who Care stuff, I mean, we, we don't even like promote ourselves barely at all on that thing. It's not— which is another reason why we didn't do it as Robo Creative, because we wanted a completely separate entity. So we— there is the complete transparency of what we are really trying to do, right?

That's awesome. Lucas, how about you?

Um, yeah, so I actually— I was supposed to, um, doing this or do a guest speaking appearance for the School of the Art Institute before it was scheduled way before all this chaos. And it was to a senior-level professional practices course. And so this exact question is something that the whole talk was basically focused on. We couldn't do that. And so I had to do it with the professor through a Zoom and blah, blah, blah. But we did it anyway because it's something that I'm definitely very passionate about and just trying to arm either young creatives, young entrepreneurs with as much ammunition as I can give them. 'Cause when we were trying to do it, you know, we were going through old forums and we were going through old books. And, you know, luckily now technology is amazing and there's so much— there's a wealth of knowledge everywhere. So what I just— given the whole situation, I kind of changed that whole, the whole outlook just to, to have a lot of the same fundamental understandings that we've had since day one of Robo Creative. You know, the compassion is there and has always been there. And I think that like Joe said, being compassionate, being real, and just being human through everything really tears down those walls that, that a lot of other companies are out there, you know, kind of building without even knowing that they're building them by, by positioning them in a way, in a predatory way that's just going to, it's going to create fires on the other side. So, you know, we've just been trying to, let's be real, let's be compassionate, let's be creative. Let's know that we don't have all the answers, that that's okay. Let's try to stay positive and just do all that we can. I mean, one of the most disarming moments of this, I think, has been very, very early on when we had to have conversations with our entire staff and being the leaders of the business and ultimately having to tell them that we don't really know what's going on. Like, that's such a conflicting feeling because you're supposed to have the answers, you're supposed to be driving this in the right direction, and the reality is that Nobody does. And so that's okay. So I think, you know, I mean, for us to be back in square one and to really be kind of cast down into a startup again, because we are re-envisioning the entire company by default. I mean, we have to get smarter with things. We have to get— we have to just sharpen every tool that we have because No one knows what's going to happen after this. So we've just been really trying to maintain that positivity. I mean, I think that we have been so blessed and lucky just to have each other and have that same sort of mentality that is like, this is it. This is not going to— it's not going to kill us. It's not going to burn the entire thing down. We will figure this out. And ultimately, we're going to come back stronger and we're going to come back smarter. We might not come back 10 times bigger from this, but we might come back even just sharper to a point of just being able to operate better. So I think that's, you know, maintaining that sort of positivity, maintaining the compassion, checking in with everybody. I think that, you know, the clients that have stuck with us through this entire thing, the partners that we've gained, the exposure that we've gained, I think it's just going to come back even stronger and tenfold from there because people see the— people see reality and they see that this is hopefully— these are two guys and a company that is out there doing good. We've been doing all we can to protect our, our employees, our staff, and, you know, all the stuff that a lot of people are doing. But, but hopefully the heart is very transparent with what we're doing.

Guys, I'll never forget walking in your facility and just had this raw energy and you guys have never lost that, that rock and roll edginess about you that is like, like I said about DIY, but also very smart, sophisticated. And you're doing some very smart, sophisticated work for clients and brands. And I just want to say thanks. I'm glad. I don't even know how did we get here? Mark sent some kind of email with some funky picture of us back in the day.

Yeah, I mean, that it— I think that situation alone is, is is a prime example of what's happening during this situation. You know, Mark sends an email to all of us with a picture from a year ago saying, I can't believe that was a year ago. But really, like, what that did was just, you know, that's just checking in. You know, we've had an amazing relationship from the jump of this. And so I think that's just a great, great embodiment of what this is— checking in with your people, checking in with everybody. You know, it's not just about business, trying to drum up sales. It's just checking in in saying, hey, I hope you guys are okay, I hope these relationships last, we'll all get through this. And then, you know, lo and behold, it becomes, all right, cool, we, we vibe really well together, we could talk for hours and hours, and we get some great content. So I don't— let's talk about something, let's just see where it goes. So I, I, you know, you and I have had a great relationship, and I very much appreciate, you know, the relationship that you've had, even just the risk of you reaching out, you know, back a year ago and saying, cool, let's just see what happens if And lo and behold, here we are a year later in the midst of chaos, just, you know, shooting the shit. Right.

Who would have known?

Right.

What I love is, you know, we meet so many people, but every once in a while you meet someone who's totally real. And I felt like, you know, when we met you guys, we picked that up immediately. I felt like that first interview we did, it was like, you know, college buddies getting back together to talk about, whatever we did in college. Even when we were doing the testing this morning, I mean, I could have just— if we never even did the interview, I had just as much fun. And, and, you know, that is— we reach out to everyone hoping we are able to find the diamonds, you know, underneath the mud. And, you know, and that's why we never stop, is because we want to connect with as many real people as we can, and that's why we never give up. So thank you for reaching out.

And then, uh, glad to know, guys, you know it, but the sentiment's the same. And more than anything too, I just love what a great example you guys are, not because you are standing from some, um, platform and looking down on everyone to hand out advice. It's almost like you're always in the trenches with us, always trying to help us learn, always trying to figure it out as a community. And Man, I can't tell you how much that means to me, to our audience, Mark, Catherine, and the whole team. So we're very honored to know you guys, and thank you for all the work you're doing, and we appreciate your friendship.

Yeah, thank you. I wish we would have been able to give an even bigger and longer hug when we saw you in January.

Knowing all of this, we would have had a couple more shots of tequila.

Oh yeah, that's right.

Well, we'll save some of that, save some of that tequila for sure, because I can't wait to connect with you you guys again.

For sure, we could have a Zoom barbecue.

There you go. All right guys, thanks a lot.

For sure, man, take care.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkuCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SkuCast on iTunes or to our blog at community.comandsku.com. Until next time, friends. Thanks so much for listening.