Episode 156: Caring Beyond Commodities with Nevin Bansal

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

Naveen Bansal is the founder and CEO of Outreach Promotional Solutions, a marketing agency out of Columbus, Ohio, and he's the founder and executive director of Small Biz Cares, a nonprofit that engages small businesses for philanthropy and community impact. The road that brought him here to today's conversation is a rich road with a diverse background as a senior consultant in corporate strategy, finance director, a CPA, a Kent State grad receiving his MBA from Ohio State University with honors. Among many other community endeavors, Naveen is also a member of Columbus, Ohio's CEO's Future 50, which recognizes innovative and creative leaders who are making a difference. Today, we talk with Naveen about how he and his company have transitioned to a true agency-style brand, including expanding beyond his print promotions background to provide marketing services to clients. And we get into the strategic and the tactical, how they differentiate all of their various products and services. We get into the particulars of how they work with clients strategically, how they plan and utilize their budget, how they bill clients, and how they vet and onboard marketing service clients using a 3-month discovery and evaluation process. In addition to marketing services, we talk about partnership marketing, advice for distributors on how to move away from transactional relationships to become more consultative, and more. 2 quick housekeeping notes. If you enjoy the SkewCast, you might want to tune in to our first ever live video SkewCast episode called, appropriately enough, SkewCast Live. And our first episode will be held on September 1st at 1:00 PM ET featuring Jason Lukasch from Batch and Bodega. Join Mark Graham and I as we chat with Jason about how to craft new experiences with merch in today's environment. We will be selecting 10 SkewCast Live attendees at random to receive an exclusive Batch and Bodega prize pack. You can learn more at info.commonsq.com/qcastlive. And we launched Sessions at Home last week, the industry's only virtual experience dedicated solely to thriving in sales. The response has been overwhelming. Join Mike Michalowicz, Dale Griffin, Danny Rosen, and Katherine Graham as we share how to refuel, refocus, and reenergize our sales teams to make sales growth a passion again. You can register at commonsq.com/qcastlive.

Sessionsathome.

And now on to our episode where I'm joined by Naveen Bansal as we kick off our discussion talking about fractional marketing and his marketing services strategy.

Naveen, you segment your business in 3 categories: promo, print, and marketing services that you branded Elevate Digital Marketing. What does Elevate do?

Yeah, so Elevate provides a fractional marketing department for primarily for small businesses and nonprofits that maybe don't have the resources in-house. And so what we do is we come on, we provide that fractional team, and, you know, we're really trying to solve the problem for the customer in terms of tackling their biggest marketing challenges.

What types of challenges do you normally tackle?

Yeah, so, you know, many folks, I think, especially right now, you know, digital marketing, social media marketing, email marketing, campaigns, paid advertising on, you know, Google or on, on social media, automation, even design. So all those different areas are, are things that we get into with Elevate. And really what we do is we, we flex depending on the, the client's goals. And so, you know, one client may have gaps in their social media marketing and maybe in their paid ads. Another client may have gaps, you know, in their email marketing efforts or in their lead generation efforts. And so it really allows us to tailor the service to the specific client.

Okay. So your background, your executive background as a strategist, as a CPA, you see these gaps and you're able to stitch those together to bring them a more holistic offering.

Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I love the idea of problem solving, thinking strategically. And so when we talk to our clients and prospects, you know, a lot of the questions that we get into are really just about identifying, you know, goals, strategies, you know, what problems and pain points that our clients have.

Marketing services is a category that's growing with quite a few distributors. One time most of us just gave lip service to it, but now there are many of us who are beginning to pursue this angle. You decided to get into it. What made you decide to expand in those types of services?

Yeah, so, you know, we saw throughout the years, you know, with our business, we saw a lot more clients, especially ones that got to know me personally. We saw them asking us for help around marketing strategy and advice. And something that I really enjoyed doing. So personally for me, part of it has been the enjoyment of, you know, being more holistic with our clients and identifying, you know, strategies for them. But also we saw, you know, the marketing trends like you mentioned, you know, we see that more and more companies are investing in digital marketing in different ways. It's becoming more—

especially now.

Yeah, exactly. It's becoming more and more critical and it's also more complex. You know, things change all the time. So, you know, we saw those trends there. And then we also had some internal capabilities. You know, I mentioned the strategy side. We have some design capabilities. And we knew we could also hire the digital marketing capabilities. And so, you know, using our capabilities, you know, to generate an additional revenue stream, additional ways for us to grow our business and also get more creative, I think it just was a way for us to, you know, institute fun, additional revenue, creativity, strategy, everything into our business.

You have a unique blend of being a strategist and an incredibly practical entrepreneurs. So I love the mechanics behind this. And you've developed a unique strategy for business planning with your customers. You mentioned monday.com. Can you tell us more about that and some of the mechanics of how you work with clients through marketing services?

Yeah, yeah. monday.com is basically our software platform. It's like a Basecamp or another collaboration tool, but we basically utilize it to develop our clients' plans. So every month before the month starts, We build a plan for our clients based on their budget, based on their marketing goals. You know, we, we set up their plan. We work with the client to make sure that plan looks good. And then we utilize that plan to guide our work. We also are able to capture, you know, our hours, our paid ad spend, any kind of comments and notes within the software. And so we really try to make sure that we're as transparent as possible. I think that's one of the keys with what we're doing. I think the challenges that many companies face with with digital is showing ROI and really being really transparent, you know, because it can be complicated. So we really, really believe in that planning process to be able to capture plans, work it, work the plan, and then also provide a recap. So we also capture, like, you know, when we close out a month, we capture what did we do? Does it match with our plan? If it doesn't, what were the changes and why?

And so, yeah, that's great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

The financial model for marketing service is broad. A lot of folks who just get into it, they really don't know where to begin or how to charge clients, how to provide fees. You found a way, clients for Elevator each on a retainer and you have a minimum spend threshold for working with clients. Can you tell us more about how that works?

Yeah, so, you know, our retainer program, we started at $1,000 a month and we do that because, you know, we wanna make sure that we can do, we can get to know the client well enough and we need enough of that budget to be able to actually do an effective job. But how it works for us is we start, we start our folks out on a 3-month contract and, you know, each month we have that retainer fee. And I mentioned $1,000 is the minimum. And we develop their plan utilizing 3 main components. You know, one is an hourly rate for our work. And that includes, you know, executing the digital. It could be, you know, social media posting, analysis, developing the ads, developing the designs, you know, doing all the work. We also take that budget and depending on what their ad spend goal is and what what they want to do. Part of that budget can be ad spend. So that could be investments in Google, you know, it could be investments on Facebook or LinkedIn. And then we also have an automation software we use for our clients that basically, you know, integrates all of their digital into one spot. It also provides the analytics. It provides us a way to, you know, it actually has a CRM built into it. And so, you know, we use that software, the ad spend hourly rate to capture, to roll up into that one monthly spend. And after that 3-month retainer or that contract, it then goes month to month. So we decided that we wanted to make sure that our clients are happy with us, that they stick with us because we're doing a great job. You know, we want to make sure that goodwill is there and that we're both tying ourselves to results and, you know, doing our job versus a long-term contract.

That also gives you a great window to vet a client in a very professional way.

Yes. You know, the 3-month startup is that time for us because, you know, many folks, I think, especially if you haven't been in the digital space, you know, they expect results immediately. And we tell folks, we tell folks, you know, you've got to get to know you, your industry. We got to get to know your context to what you've been doing. We got to build your plans out. We got to maybe re, you know, refresh your website, refresh your platforms, your, you know, your social media pages could be out to date. So depending on what all that is, there's some work in front for us to do that. And so that's why we do that 3-month startup. To make sure that we get all that done.

Have you found ideal prospects or are they all over the board for the types of clients you work with?

You know, we have a pretty good diverse client set. We have found that the education area and nonprofits have been better for us, to be honest. I think that, you know, nonprofits specifically are finding that they may not have the resources to hire in-house and, you know, they want the flexibility that we can offer as well as the expertise. And so that area has been pretty good for us. But in general, you know, we try to target, you know, small businesses and nonprofits that are typically under 50 employees that may, maybe don't have a marketing team or they may have one person doing the marketing or the owner's doing the marketing, which in some cases happens, right? So that's really kind of where we go. And I think we're smart enough to do the research, understand the business and leverage our clients' expertise to actually do a great job. So we don't, we don't claim to know everything. Right.

You used two great terms with me, partnership marketing, and you mentioned being driven by a philosophy of win-win collaboration. What did you mean by partnership marketing?

Yeah, so partnership marketing, you know, what we do and how I kind of look at that term, it's really connecting us with the companies or organizations that help us reach a larger audience. And so, you know, our goal here is to develop, you know, we offer value. So in our cases, we have partnered with several chambers of commerce, business organizations, membership organizations to be able to offer affinity programs, in-kind work, discounted products. And we also partner with nonprofits because we want to support positive efforts. But all those different partnerships, not only do we offer value, but we always look at ways that we can get more exposure, more awareness, help them advocate for us. And so, you know, we always talk like one, you know, selling is sometimes one-to-one, you know, it's I sell to somebody or I reach out to a prospect. But with partnership marketing, you know, the way we look at it is what if I can reach one organization that has 500 business members and now it's one to 500, right? And I'm able to get our brand out there to all these folks in a creative way. And not only that, but we're leveraging a credible organization that's advocating for us. And so that's kind of how we look at it.

What is fascinating about your journey is that you began, you grew up in a print family, right? That was the background, that was the background of your family and you've expanded, you just kept expanding into these other services. I'm sure probably went print plus promo and now these, all of these various digital marketing services. And it's, you can see then how you've chosen to stay on the edge. You know, we just finished a series on the future client and everything you're talking about, sitting down with a client strategically, And, you know, working with them and helping them understand that you're more than a sourcing partner is— you're that at the very base level, at just table stakes. But the fact that you sit down and have strategic discussions with clients, that's where all of us should be at and where we should be growing. And I know it's probably not that way with every client across the board, but at least you've got a really good system and philosophy to introduce clients to, to talk more strategically, even if they've targeted you or just asked you for a promotional product. Yep.

Yeah, no, definitely.

You started a nonprofit called Small Biz Cares. What triggered that?

Yeah, great question. So, you know, about 3 years ago, so going back to our business outreach, so we, since the start, we've always been focused on community impact and what we do. I mentioned partnership marketing. So we've always figured out ways that we wanted to support local nonprofits, do good., but also grow our brand. And so, you know, that kind of mentality combined with some experiences, you know, working with chambers of commerce over my career, you know, kind of led me to this idea of Small Biz Cares. So what I saw a lot of was a lot of business groups that focus on supporting small business, whether it's in cost savings, networking groups, all the different things. But what I didn't see was a lot of collaboration or focus on philanthropy for small business. You know, you see organizations like the United Way, you see other groups that, you know, focus on high net worth donors or large corporations for philanthropy. And a lot of large companies have those, you know, departments that all they focus on is volunteer programs and giving back and large dollars. But when you talk to most small businesses that we talk to and that a lot of us talk to, you know, they want to be able to make a difference, but they just can't do it consistently because they don't have the resources, the time. The focus, the know-how, how to make it happen. And they also are trying to make a trade-off between doing good and growing their business. And so that's kind of what inspired Small Biz Cares was the idea that we could create an organization that would be able to engage small businesses to be able to make a difference, but also do it in a way that provides a fun experience, a way for our members to be able to network with each other, enhance their brand. And we saw a gap. I mean, ultimately it's that problem-solving mentality, you know, the gap, you know, in terms of small business philanthropy when you have so many businesses that don't get involved consistently. That's really what created Small Biz Cares.

And your goal is to take this national?

Yeah. Yeah, that's our goal. So we started in Columbus, Ohio. You know, we have, you know, good experiences here. We started about 2 years ago. So we're actually in our second year now. So what we're seeing here in Columbus, I think we can see in almost any city, is we see a lot of small business leaders that want to be able to give back. And so really our goal is to be able to expand into other cities where you have some passionate small business leaders that want to start their own chapter. And, you know, we have kind of the tools and the know-how now to do that. And so as we roll things out, you know, over the next few years, you know, our goal is to get it out to different cities. And we think that we can make, you know, our vision is really to, for small business to be more front and center in giving back. And I think we can do it. As long as we've got a really good set of leaders within each city, I think we can do it.

Yeah, that's a great vision. It's almost like you're franchising a concept, not to minimize it by using the word franchising, but it's like you're running multiple businesses here. You got multiple disciplines under one roof and then you have the nonprofit. There's so many things going on. You're a CPA and you spent, as I mentioned in the intro, you spent 8 years in corporate strategy and finance. So how does that experience help you strategize with customers?

That's a great question. I mean, so, so first off, that experience helps you run a business, right? So having, having that accounting background, financial background, strategy background, it's extremely helpful when running a business. But, you know, it really helps on the problem-solving side for the strategy, strategy experience. And, you know, the financial accounting experience, I mean, you know, when we look at analytics, you know, we talk about our digital marketing side, for example, And folks want to know what the ROI is, you know, how can they look at metrics to be able to know results. And so having that background, you know, I think it brings credibility to the conversation, but it also brings just knowledge. And so, you know, we utilize, you know, that experience to just be more analytical when we talk to our clients, you know, especially when they're looking at the ROI. And I think overall that experience is just, you know, I mentioned problem solving before. The problem-solving aspect of it. And when you look at working in finance and accounting, a lot of that training comes into play when you're trying to solve problems.

We are at this monumental time where customers are facing really unique challenges. They've never faced some of these challenges before, and neither have we. We have an opportunity to sort of step in and be the advisors we often claim we are with customers because they're listening more, probably the first time. Is that your experience, D?

Are you finding that? Yeah, I think that, you know, more and more folks, you know, some clients are going to look at things more transactionally, but I think more and more folks, especially the ones that are continuing to invest in marketing, especially right now, are looking for advisors to help them figure out, you know, what are the right things that we can do, whether it's on the promotional side, whether it's on the digital marketing side, but what are the things that we can do to help them get their brand out there, show their employees appreciation right now, show their customers appreciation, attract new clients. And so, yeah, I think for us especially, I think we love those kind of clients, right? We love those clients that are asking us for that advice and help to find the right ideas, maybe to package it in the right way to communicate their brand in a unique way. So we definitely are finding that more and more folks, especially the ones that really invest in marketing, They're looking for those kind of partners and advisors.

What advice would you have for distributors who are wanting to become more strategic with customers?

Yeah, I think, you know, mentioned transactional. So I think it's really easy to just sell products, but I think we talk about selling the solution instead. And so, you know, a lot of companies are going to offer, you know, print or promotional products or apparel, but My advice is to really figure out how can you package solutions in a certain way that becomes easier to sell or differentiate. So for example, for us, we developed our brand stores platform, we branded it, we developed some marketing messaging and information around it, and we built the technology behind it, even leveraging Commskey Shops, right? So we've done all this work to really build our brand store solution. And so that has made it so much easier for us to communicate. To our clients and they know we do promo, print, apparel, all these different products, but really what's attracting them to us is that we have this BrandSource platform that folks are saying, wow, you guys, we can get this as a company. It makes my life so much easier. It looks great. The products are one thing, right? The assumption on the product side is that we got that taken care of, but it's really everything around that, the servicing, the experience, the online technology, everything that goes into it. And so that's what I would recommend is really focusing on how you can develop unique solutions. And I recommend branding it. You know, if you can figure out a nice way to brand things, it really helps you stand out.

It's good advice. Really great advice. You know, shops, my experience, of course, being a distributor and working for years with shops and stores, we always entered into a fairly strategic conversation when it came to those types of products and services. And it seems as though product was the last thing we talked about. And we talked about so much more. Is that your experience?

Experience too. Yeah, I mean, the product is there, right? So yeah, we talk about the other areas where we can really separate ourselves. Yeah, I 100% agree.

I was going to ask how you escape becoming a commodity, but you just said it really. And even, even just the branding on, on around these services you provide, do you find that sets you apart? And even in terms of the offerings of your services, and it could— because a lot of customers might get confused. Wait, are you a promotional products company or are you a print company or what? So by branding it, you are able to sort of then enter into that language and enter into that context right away.

Yeah, it actually makes it— because we did the branding of our brand stores and our Elevate solutions like a few years ago. So before that, it was a lot harder for us to communicate all that we do, all the different things we do. It really helps us be really clear on how we communicate. We have our marquee platforms that we promote. And when we talk about that solution, it also allows folks to understand that this is a place that we specialize, that we're really good at it. And so that's really, really helped us a lot. So without branding these solutions, I don't think we'd have the type of growth that we'd have on these platforms at all. Yeah.

You might have even answered the question I had in my head about differentiation because it seems you're wired, hardwired to think like a differentiator. What have you learned about differentiation in addition to all of these tactics like branding these unique services?

Yeah, so I think, you know, we mentioned before that marketing, I mean, I don't know how many companies are out there that offer some level of marketing, whether it's on the product side, the digital side. So there's a lot of companies out there. And so, you know, for us, it is, you know, we take a look at, you know, other companies, we learn from other companies. We also take a look at our local market too, and we get a feel for what folks are doing. And so we, we do take kind of a strategic approach to differentiation. You know, we know what we can do. We know where there's gaps. We listen to clients and customers and prospects. And so, you know, it's, it's not enough to say I want to differentiate, but I think it's actually doing the homework to figure out, you know, what do, what do clients care about that they would actually, you know, pay more for or work with you versus somebody else. And there's ways to get that information so you can figure out how to separate yourself from the crowd.

I love that. Instead of putting your brand under a microscope, what you're doing is going straight to the heart of where you're going to find— you're going to find differentiation ideas from the mouth and heart of your customer. Yep.

Yeah.

Do you have a favorite client story?

You've done so many things.

Do you have a couple of favorite client stories or projects that illustrate these services or strategies?

Yeah. So we have one. It's for the Ohio Council of Healthcare and Hospice. And so they are an association that has about maybe 650 members and they're in the healthcare and hospice area. And we've developed a partnership with them that's an affinity program, which means that, you know, we're basically offering their members a discount to work with us. We also have a give back to the association for projects from their members, but we've built an online platform or one of our brand stores we built for them. It's got 6 shops within it. Each shop has a specific product line. So one is promo, one is apparel, one is print. One is creative services. We even offer PPE medical supplies. And so we have all these different shops built into that platform. And the association is promoting that to their members. You know, we're able to then work with a whole new set of clients and we're getting them to promote us. And so that's a really great example of how we utilized our partnership marketing approach, the affinity program, the brand stores platform, and we've integrated all of our services into one place. And so that's probably one of my favorite Examples, because, you know, it really takes to heart all the different things we've been doing, you know, into one place and has allowed us to really get in front of, you know, a large set of clients really efficiently.

Yeah, I love that. What's also interesting is that you, it seems like a lot of what you do is very mission-minded from Small Biz Cares, even to the name of your company Outreach.

Where does that passion to help come from? Great question. I don't know. It's funny. You know, when I was in corporate, I enjoyed my corporate career, but one of the things I always missed was that ability to make an impact. You know, I was— my last role was a finance director supporting IT for a large corporation. And so, you know, while that was a stable job, you know, the one thing that I didn't have was the idea of making an impact in what I was doing. And so when I left, you know, that was really one thing that I saw that I wanted to do is I wanted to figure out how to make an impact, not only just to grow a business, but also to get involved in the community. I get a lot of personal fulfillment when I see the results of something, you know, all that work that goes into something, all the creativity, and we can see those positive results. And I love the idea of connecting with other folks. I think through our business and our approach in the community, through Small Biz Cares, you know, I've built a lot of relationships and a bigger network of folks that are community-minded, positive thinking, very philanthropic. And so I think that not only fulfills me personally, but also I think it is good for our business, right? And that's not why you do it, but I think that philosophy of do well and do good is also one of the primary reasons why I've always had this mentality is I know there's ways that we can get creative and make a difference, but also be smart with our business at the same time.

Yeah, a lot of heart. And being a strategist, it's— I can see how rewarding it would be to see all of these different arrangements come together orchestrally, if that's such a word. You know what I mean? It's like the architecture of it finally being erected, and you're able to see the beauty and the symmetry and everything that you thought about come together. That's why I love that one story you shared too.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

If you were sitting across from a 20-year-younger-you or a young entrepreneur getting into this business, what are a couple of things that you would share?

Yeah, I think probably the biggest thing I would share is, you know, if you're a young entrepreneur, I would say get a mentor, get somebody else that you can lean on for advice. You know, if it's in your industry, if it's outside of the industry, but I think if you don't have the experience in your background, it can be really tough to start a business and to get it to where you want. So I think definitely getting somebody to learn from is very critical. And I think, you know, we talked about it, but thinking Thinking differently, you know, it can be easy, like we said, to think transactionally. I'm just trying to get more revenue and sell things. But sometimes, you know, take a slower approach and actually think creatively and strategically and build a, you know, a creative program or some way that you can, you know, build something that's so out of the box that you can grow exponentially. So, you know, think creatively. Develop, you know, a mentorship, you know, somebody that you can lean on and then just study, study the industry, study trends, study customers, talk to people, you know, get, get as much information as you can to inform how you move forward. Yeah.

Love that advice. For those that might be listening that are fairly new to the business, check out Promo Kitchen and they have a mentor-mentee program that you can sign up for. We do have an upcoming guest that's going to talk about, and you exemplify this, that's going to talk about better is not better, different is better. And so your whole idea of approaching this, you know, with thinking differently is so much more than a catchphrase. You seem to analyze that very well. I appreciate it.

Yeah.

Naveen, final thoughts? Yeah. So we know, we know right now it's really a tough time, you know, with COVID with all the things happening right now. And it can be really hard for many of us who are running our own businesses to stay, stay motivated, motivated, energized. And really figure out how to still grow or at least maintain what you have. And so, you know, we've been able to do that personally. So for our business, we've been able to pivot, provide different services and products and actually still grow. But I always encourage folks to really, you know, utilize some of these lessons around partnerships and, you know, complementary products and services to be able to still grow and don't, I guess, don't sit still, I guess, you know, Improve the brand, improve your website, you know, think about ways you can kind of build things now because once we get past this, hopefully soon, you know, we can kind of, you know, we all can, can be at our best spots. We can grow, grow and get beyond it.

Yeah, great advice. Great advice. Because I know many of us seem to have been stuck there for a bit and keep moving, keep moving forward and just keep going. Thanks for taking the time to join us, man. You have a wealth of wisdom.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.

This is awesome. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of SKU Cast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.

Mm-hmm.