Episode 167: skucast Live! Rener Gracie’s Six Sales (and Life!) Lessons for Winning

Hey everyone, welcome again to another SKUcast Live. I'm Bobby LeHew, many of you know me, and joining us here of course is Mark Graham, CommonSKU's President and Chief Brand Officer. So our special guest today is Henner Gracie, who floored the Sharks on Shark Tank with one of the best pitches the show had ever seen. His product, the Quick Flip, earned not only a half-million-dollar investment but landed him on Time Magazine's Best Invention of 2019 list. He's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu instructor at Gracie University and co-creator of their online curriculum. And his amazing product is now available through S&S, which we're going to talk today, uh, with Henner about his entrepreneurial journey, how he started this, how he formed this, what— where the idea came from, what his journey's been like as an entrepreneur as he's developed this product, and how they've expanded and everything else. So, Henner, welcome to the Commscue community.

Thank you. I appreciate it, you guys. Congratulations on all the great work and thanks for the invite. We've been pushing for this for about a month now and I'm excited to finally be here and be with you guys and be able to chop it up about Quick Flip, Shark Tank, jiu-jitsu, and anything else in between.

Awesome.

And I want to give a quick shout out to our mutual friend Megan Erber at S&S who was one of the instigators in getting this going. I know that, Henner, you're a super busy guy and with Meg's influence, we were able to get you on here. So, we're really, really excited. So, thank you. And thanks to Meg.

And then of course the crew, you know, Mark at S&S and Frank, my good buddy, and both of whom are now doing jiu-jitsu. Both Mark Vitulli and Frank are now doing jiu-jitsu because of this Shark Tank and the Quick Flip connection. So it's in there. And yes, Meg is awesome.

Wow, that's amazing. So why don't we start off right at the very beginning? So hooded sweatshirt, we're in the promotional products industry, hooded sweatshirts, while cool, I mean, I have tons of them myself, are kind of an average commoditized product that everyone in apparel has. So there's not necessarily a ton of innovation when it comes to hooded sweatshirts, particularly in the promotional products industry. So my question to you is, why is Quick Flip any different than the masses of other hooded sweatshirts that are out there?

Well, that's not your question. You know the answer. What you're asking is, how did we get to this point? And I appreciate the lead-in. But listen, you guys, I'm the same as you guys. I just want to have a good Tuesday morning, you know, stroll in the park with my son. And this actually was December 27th, 2016. And what's funny is that this is the story I told on Shark Tank, and I'll tell it now for our viewers who haven't had a chance to see the episode.

And by the way, Hinner, we're gonna play a clip from your Shark Tank pitch.

Okay, okay. So, if you're gonna do the pitch, that kind of does the proper intro. The bottom line is I became very frustrated with the way, the lack of ways there were to carry a sweatshirt that you're not wearing. And it got to the— I mean, we've always— everyone has felt that for their whole life. You take off a hoodie from the time you're 4 years old, you take off your hoodie or your jacket at the school or at the playground, and you look at it and you think to yourself, why do I have this in my hand? And you just throw it, and then you run to the playground and you get on with your life. And that's why at the end of the day, you'll see 75 hoodies spread and, you know, dead hoodies all over the floor of the playground, because no one wants to carry around an unworn sweatshirt. It's only useful while you're wearing it. So this happened to me on December 27th, several years ago, 3 or 4 years ago, and that was it, man. I went home that day so frustrated that I would not accept no for an answer. And I knew that there had to be a better way to carry an unworn sweatshirt. And I went into the office, locked myself in there for 30 minutes, came out with a functioning prototype, which I actually have right here if you guys care to see it later. And in terms of how rudimentary it was, shoestrings, duct tape, paper clips, uh, you know, my mom sewed in a pouch into the lower back of the garment so I wouldn't take no for an answer. We got the first prototype that day. I came out of the office on— this is like holiday time with my family, and they're like, 'Henry, where were you and what is that?' I'm like, 'Watch.' And I flip it into a backpack and their jaws dropped, but they were kind of like puzzled at the same time, like, 'What's wrong with this guy?' And then fast forward 6 months and, uh, we have, you know, 15, 20 iterations later, we're going to production overseas., and we couldn't be happier. We ordered the first 5,000, those sold out in a matter of 30 days after doing a video on Venice Beach. I was like, man, how am I going to sell this hoodie? I'm a jiu-jitsu guy. I'm not really an apparel company, you know, any, any, any more than jiu-jitsu apparel, you know, kind of plays a role in my life. But how am I going to get people knowing about this? So I went to Venice Beach and I basically went up to random people and I said, hey, random people with the garments tied onto their body in awkward ways. So I'd walk up to the mom with the sweatshirt around her waist or the grandpa with it tied around his neck or the a guy with it tied onto his bike, and I would stop them in their tracks and I'd say, hey, you know, so I'm doing a survey, and they're always very skeptical because they think I'm selling them something. I said, I'm just doing a survey on hooded sweatshirts, and my question is, what's the most efficient way to carry an unworn sweatshirt? And at that point they realize, okay, you know, this guy's got a good point, and they look down at their waist and they go like this. Everyone, same response, that's the only way there is, is just to tie it onto something. And I said, check this out, and I would flip mine inside out, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I'm telling you, the— well, the video is viral, 13 million views all over social media, Facebook. And that's how Shark Tank heard about it and reached out to me. And the rest is history. But the bottom line is efficiency doesn't lie. And when you have a problem that everyone's had forever and you propose a solution that they never contemplated but always knew was necessary, I think you have a home run.

Yeah, I love it. I know I teed that up for you, but I think it's really important because people in this industry are pretty jaded, right? They see a hoodie, they're like, what's different about it? And that really caught my eye. Okay, I've got one quick little follow-up question. I want to make sure we're not giving you all these easy questions here, Henner. It sounds like the story is a bit of a fairy tale, tale story so far. Like Shark Tank, you got 13 million views on social media, you're just crushing it sales-wise. Can you talk to me about a really terrible challenge that you faced in taking this from ideation to final production? Yes, let's talk about a challenge.

Let's talk about the challenge, right? Because one of the earliest prototypes, or all the earliest prototypes— this is one of my favorite jiu-jitsu pullover sweatshirts. My grandfather's on there. So here's what it is. The front of the garment is this, the back of the garment. On the inside, there's this little pouch that I cut a t-shirt to make the fabric for the pouch. In goes the actual garment, and then you pull these little shoestrings that I had my mom sew on. And if I'll get really close right here, look at this. No, I don't really show this at all. The paper clip. Oh yeah, wrapping around the shoestring and the paper clip right there. Look at that. So this would then go on like this. And you guys, when I did this one, I was like, we did it! When I did this, I thought I was like, home run, we're rich, I'm gonna retire, we're set! But then my wife was like— and she's the one, my wife Eve— she was like, baby, it's really awesome. And then it had these little guys too. Check this out. This was the other key variable in all of this. These paper clips, look, they're adjustable. So you can— oh wow. So the way I configure the duct tape and the paper clip, I'm like, it has to be adjustable. So I figured that out. So I thought it was over, and she's like, baby, this is cool, but you know, all you did was found another way to tie the sweatshirt onto your body. It's just— yeah. 'So yes, you don't have to put it on the floor and you don't have to tie it around your waist. It sits on your back and that's great.' And then she was like, 'You know, the only thing better than that would be if you found a way to make this backpack actually functional to carry other things besides just the garment that you took off.' Yeah, dang it. And because here's the thing, when I first was at the park with my son and I took off the hoodie and I did this one, the reason why I was so frustrated, because I was about to tie it around my waist that day, that fateful Tuesday morning, But right as like this came together, right at the moment of them touching, I thought to myself, no, I'm a cool dad. And that wasn't acceptable to me that this would come together because I'm not a dad of a 2-year-old son. And like, cool dads don't tie the hoodie around their waist, right? Like older dads do. But I was like, no, I'm not going to be that dad yet. So I'm like, no, I want to be cooler than that. So then I took it and I did the over-the-shoulder kind of like this one, the draping one. That's all I could think of to like kind of hang in there as a cool dad still as many years I can get out of it.. But then when I bent over, that's when it fell onto the wet grass. And that's what was so frustrating. So for me, the reason to invent this was largely stimulated or largely driven by the fact that I wanted there to be a more fashionable way to carry the sweatshirt you're not wearing. Function was kind of the second thing, like, oh, let's make it a backpack. It was more like, don't go around the waist, don't go over the shoulder, and where it's falling off had to be tight and it had to be safe and it had to be better than tying it around your waist, the fanny pack. So I thought the backpack's little tight pouch was good enough, you guys, but it wasn't for my wife. And that's where she deserves all the credit. So check this out. This is the actual— and then we'll see, we'll discuss or answer any questions. In goes your favorite sweatshirt, it goes up and in one turn, and out comes not just a bag— this is our Gracie version of it, we do all kinds of different brands now— but in goes. And now look at this, this is how good this is. The old original can fit inside, and you can put a water bottle, and there's a special pocket right here for a cell phone or a wallet. There's a special little hidden pocket for your keys right where the branding window is. But look at this, so now you pull this tight and you have— look at this, there's still slack in there for more stuff. You can fit another hoodie, you can fit your baby, your cat, whatever you want.

Now this goes on some of your books in there, Bobby.

And the best— the problem with this, guys, the problem was this: it wasn't good enough for it to turn into a backpack that you can put stuff in. Those little paper clips that I had were critical. It had to be adjustable. So look what I invented— the world's flattest cord lock. Look at this little Christmas tree lock right here. So this is— look how it pays homage to the paper clip in terms of the shape at the top. So it's rounded edge, but here's how it works. It's even easier. You just slide up and you bite, and it sticks there forever until you grab that tip, pull it, and then it loosens back up. And because of the top Christmas tree peak, it never wears. It never wears the string. It just hangs on in a perfect compression lock.

Very jiu-jitsu-ish.

And when you tighten these up, you guys, now you go 1, you go 2, and now if you have to get down or whatever you have to do, it's going to be totally— it's not going to bounce around while you're running or jogging. It's going to stay tight the whole time.

Exactly what I do when I throw mine on too, Rener. Hey, you are like a natural-born salesperson. And so, that's something I want to ask you about. You are— I just need a bit of Rener's energy. We're going to show real quick your Shark Tank pitch, which has been called the best The best sales pitch ever. And while I'm playing this, Hunter, this is what I want you to think about. The way you communicate and your energy is just insane.

Right?

We understand that you're a jiu-jitsu instructor. We know you're third generation. Your family invented Brazilian jiu-jitsu. There's just such a rich history here. But you're also this natural born salesman. But I have a question for you. You're going on TV in front of millions of people and you refined this story to what they called the perfect pitch ever. We're obsessed a little bit about not only the entrepreneurial journey, but how you go to market and how you tell your story. And so we're going to show this as a masterclass storytelling. And then we're gonna come back to you. And what I want to ask you to think about is how did you come up with this idea to pitch it exactly the way that you did? And what did you learn from pitching this product? So hang on. Be patient with me, everyone, while I share my screen here real quick. And then we will— everybody see okay? Mark, you see that all right? Make it full screen. Okay.

Here we go. First into the tank is a dual-purpose product with convenience in mind. Greetings, Sharks. I'm Henner Gracie, and I'm seeking a $500,000 investment in exchange for a 5% equity stake in my apparel company, Quick Flip. It was a cold December morning, and my son wanted to go to the park. So I threw on my favorite hoodie, and off we went. After about 30 minutes of chasing this guy around the park, the sun began peeking through the clouds, and I started to sweat. At that point, I had no choice but to take off my hoodie. You can probably guess what my options were. We have the fanny pack. We have the European yacht club. I see you, Robert. And then we have the— And then we have the wannabe cool guy. This is the option I stuck with. But when I finally caught up to little man, I bent over to pick him up, and the hoodie slipped off my shoulder onto the wet grass. Oh, no. There has to be a better way. Sharks. That was it. Kwik Flip was born. Check this out. Flip it, tuck it, shake it, and voilà. In a matter of seconds— No. —using our proprietary conversion technology, we can turn any outerwear garment into a fully functional backpack in a flash. With our slide and bite technology, you can adjust the pack to keep it safe and secure during literally any activity. Even jiu-jitsu with your brother. But wait, there's more. You can store anything you want inside the backpack, and when the temperature drops, simply reach in, take out your stuff with one hand. Sharks, count to 3. Too late, we're already back to full hoodie functionality in a matter of seconds. Do you want us to leave? We can— all I need are my black belt business partners partners to help me submit the, to help me submit the outerwear industry and flip your investments into black belt profits.

Who's with me?

That was exhausting. And my brother, Hito and Gracie, thank you for being here, brother.

We'll see you soon. Bye, brother.

You want anything? No, I'm good, babe.

Can I get a quarter panel, please? All right. So Henner, hang on, let me stop this. So Henner, what, tell us a little bit what happened there. How did you end up coming up with a way to pitch this product? Just give us a little bit of the background of this.

Well, you know, having a nearly one-century family legacy of selling, teaching, pitching jiu-jitsu helps. People often forget that even though the Gracie family is credited with creating Brazilian jiu-jitsu, what you have And what they often see on TV is people fighting other people and beating people up and the real brawling effectiveness of jiu-jitsu. What you have to realize is, starting with my grandfather, jiu-jitsu for him, fighting in the, in the ring, wasn't an ego battle to say, hey, I'm better than you for the sake of me feeling good about myself. The reason my grandfather fought was to demonstrate proficiency in the art that he then wanted to teach other people. So he's not a fighter who taught jiu-jitsu. He's a jiu-jitsu teacher who fought to prove what he believed in. The reason I say that is at the core, Gracie family is a family of educators, of teachers, which means for 100 years we've been practicing how to choke people out, flip people, break joints, and do all of that and protect ourselves in real fight situations. But equally, and a lot of people don't know this, we've been spending the same amount of time crafting the art of communicating this skill set to other people, in many cases who have no experience, and in some cases who have no ambition to want to learn. So it's our job to transfer our enthusiasm to the student in that situation. And that's all, that's all sales really is, is the transfer of passion or enthusiasm for a topic for the receiving student, individual, or, or client if you're trying to sell something. So when I certify— because today my brother and I are, are really established as the teachers' teachers. We certify instructors of jiu-jitsu all over the world, and we operate nearly 200 schools. All of the instructors whom have been certified by us personally to verify that they can uphold this quality standard. And what I tell them when they teach is I say, guys, no matter what technique you're teaching, number one, always start with the problem, right? Because how good is any technique? The technique in jiu-jitsu is only as good as the problem it solves. So how good is a hooded sweatshirt? It's only as good as the problem it solves. And if you're cold, it's great while you're wearing it, but if you're hot, it's useless when you're not wearing it. So I had to begin that pitch by pumping the problem— the fanny pack, the European Yacht Club, and the wannabe cool guy— because now there are 3 very well demonstrated and very, you know, very exaggerated examples of how bad the problem can be. And now that I've what we call pumped the problem, it's time to now demonstrate the solution. And then when I go in to demonstrate the solution, what I teach these instructors is, you guys, your student's passion for your presentation will never exceed yours. It may not match it. If this is your passion and this is your student, they may never match it. They may only come to here. But what won't happen is if you're here, they're gonna go here. So what I tell my instructors that I'm certifying is that your passion has to always pull because you never want to rob. Let's say that jiu-jitsu is this amazing. Let's say it's really this amazing, and the instructor's presentation enthusiasm is this, this good. The student will be robbed of anything above this level because you didn't bring the heat. So what I tell them is your enthusiasm can never be the reason why someone does not appreciate fully that which is being sold or taught. So for jiu-jitsu, you got to bring it. You can never rob the student. And when it comes to Quick Flip, I know how amazing it is what I have. So in my mind, I thought, I'm not going to let my lack of enthusiasm or a clarity or conviction on stage or nervousness about being in front of these billionaires— I'm not going to let that prevent me from reaching the enthusiasm level in my presentation that will allow the Sharks to truly grasp the greatness that is Quick Flip.

Yeah, so good, so good. I want to jump in quickly here because Bobby, you've been, you know, preaching the storytelling gospel for so long, and I know Hanner's background to this. You know, a few, few weeks ago when we were planning this episode, we looked at the Shark Tank pitch and we're like, here is someone who knows how to tell a story and knows how to sell a product. And I want to say one thing about what you just said there, Hanner, in terms of the enthusiasm that successful salespeople and entrepreneurs absolutely have to be enthusiastic. But what I will say is that you not only brought enthusiasm, but you also brought this masterful ability to identify a problem and to solve it. And the reason I say that is I can't tell you how many salespeople that I've had to sit through sales presentations where there's been massive enthusiasm, but no substance whatsoever in the product, no ability to connect the problem that I might be experiencing. So as a result, all they do is they just jabber on at a high-octane level and I'm going, get the heck out of my office. Whereas what you were able to do, and this is why we wanted to have you on the podcast, is to convey to other salespeople in this industry that enthusiasm matters. But man, it matters even more to connect that problem to the solution. And you just did such a great job of that. Yeah.

And to add to that, you know, we're like 3 Ps here. You got passion, And then you have this problem solving, you have the passion, the problem, and then the precision is the one thing I think that we end up walking into a sales situation thinking that we can just be extemporaneously awesome. But the precision, which you obviously brought from jiu-jitsu, is what I, I learned from today. That's fascinating.

I appreciate that, guys. And you listen, people ask, how did, how did Quick Flip and what does it have to do with jiu-jitsu? What you have to understand is when you're in the Gracie family and you're really even the extended Gracie family of jiu-jitsu passionate ambassadors all over the world now, because jiu-jitsu is all of ours now, it belongs to the world now, is that someone who commits their life to jiu-jitsu, what they're committing their life to is a life of every single day problem solving. If you guys were my students, you'd walk in on day number 1 and I would get on top of you, maybe get you in a headlock, and I'd say, okay, Bobby, what would you do in this situation? How would you escape here? I would ask you, and it would be respectful and safe and controlled, and you would say, I would try this, this, that, and the other. I said, yeah, but if you do this, this might happen. If you do that, I might punch you back. And if you go here, they can scratch my eyes, I can scratch your eyes, and you would— I would force you to dig on the depth of the challenge that we're facing together. I would really make you sit in the difficulty that we're faced with, with this headlock, right? And then after you dug as far as you could, I would then say, okay Bobby, switch, you grab me in a headlock, and then I would escape in less than 3 seconds, and I would have you tied up in a pretzel, and you'd be saying, okay, okay, okay, I tap, I tap, and I would be doing it gently but controlling it, but ultimately what I would show is that, look, this problem, new solution. New problem, new solution. And that's all we do. And jiu-jitsu, by definition, is the, is the process of devising solutions to real-life physical altercation threat scenarios in a way that is most efficient. So we're always looking to shave off excess and useless energy, uh, effort, and to make it the most efficient. Alavanca is the term leverage. So we're always looking for the leverage, the hidden leverage in this situation. So my whole life Every situation I ended up in, in a grappling fight altercation situation, I had to ask, this is okay, this escape might work, I need something more efficient, more energy efficient, more reliable, more reliable, more. So you start whittling down to the core efficiency and principles of effectiveness in that situation. So when I dropped my hoodie, all I said to myself was, no, you can't tell me that I spend my whole life getting out of chokeholds, headlocks, arm bars, monster guys, 350-pound monsters trying to smash me and beat me up and I have to whittle my way out and choke them from behind, you're not going to tell me that I do that my whole life and that this sweatshirt that's frustratingly on the floor and wet because it was a dewy morning, you're not going to tell me that I can't solve this, right? That was it. So my DNA is problem solving, so I didn't have a choice. Now, how do we teach other entrepreneurs and Common Stew community members to be just genetic problem solvers? The answer is I don't have that process. All I know is the one that I was subjected to, which is learn and problem solve your whole life. So that muscle of looking at a challenge and then automatically thinking not, oh my gosh, that's so frustrating, but rather, wait a minute, every problem is a technique waiting to be discovered. When you do jiu-jitsu every single day— and this is true for instructors, but it's also true for students— you learn that to where when you kind of get to the home and your wife is like, hey honey, you know, the sink is leaking, right? The average person goes, call the plumber. The jiu-jitsu practitioner goes under, opens it up, and says, wait a minute, What do we got going on here? And really goes in to say, wait a minute, if it sinks and the plumber can solve it, so can I with my jiu-jitsu DNA. And that's what we try to create in all of our students. And that problem-solving energy and enthusiasm goes a long way, bro, in a day and age that we live today where literally it's all about innovation, it's all about the next answer to the old problems, and here we are.

And that's what Quick Flip really embodies. Okay, two quick things. Sorry, Bobby, to jump in here. I'm going to make a comment and a request, and then it'll be a question. So my request to you, Henner, is that at our next in-person event, we absolutely want to invite you so you can do what you just said to Bobby on stage, because that would be epic. That would be epic because he deserves it. He deserves it. He's a little too big for his britches.

You gotta take him down a peg. I'm gonna have Meg Erber in my corner though.

She's gonna sub in for me. So that's—

All right. I know we're jumping around a little bit, and then Bobby, I, I, I, You can ask the next question. So we've been talking about jiu-jitsu. We've been talking about apparel. I want to know, like, let's take a half step back here. How does a guy with, well, maybe I don't want to assume, how did you get into the apparel space? You're a jiu-jitsu instructor. You're in this world. How do you get into this space where you're producing a great quality hoodie, you're mastering the production, you're mastering the financing side of it, you're mastering distribution, you're mastering sales and marketing, Did you have an apparel background or is this just something that one day you just woke up and said, hey, I can do this?

Yeah. So, you know, listen, the supply chain manufacturing, we've dabbled in that with jiu-jitsu because like I said, we have hundreds of schools all over the world that we oversee directly for, uh, these are called certified training centers. So there's a merchandising and a branding element there and an apparel element and a training apparel. So I get some degree. So I would say like I had like half a toe in the apparel world compared to what I now do, but I had half a toe in there where for our kind of little niche audience, we knew what we were doing and we did well, we still do. So, it wasn't foreign, the language of manufacturing and all the communication with overseas and the timing and the awkwardness of those relationships were not foreign completely. However, getting into the situation where you are cut and sew, creating from scratch, an item that's gonna go to market, man, that was tough. And finding the right factory, the quality, does it hold up with the customers after several months or years of use? So all of those with a brand new— because what happens is with a brand, you can buy a pre-made t-shirt, put your logo on it, and you're good to go. I didn't cut and sew this Gracie t-shirt. We got it from you know who. So that's the difference, right? And everyone who's in apparel knows this. But when it comes to quick flip, it was like, yo, no, you're making all these from scratch. You're choosing the zipper, You're choosing the zipper tape, you're choosing the neck twill, you're choosing the hood, the cord type, the type of fabric, the blend, the fleece, the terry, the non-terry, the ribbing, the type of ribbing, the weight of the ribbing, the dimensions. Do you want to make it slightly looser, slightly tighter? So there was so much of a new world there to have to learn and understand, but, you know, my theory was the concept and the product was so unique that any mistakes that we made, you know, whether it was choosing the wrong this or the wrong that, we're just going to learn and fail forward. And that's a very jiu-jitsu thing, right? Like the first 5,000 hoodies, I did it. We got it out the gate and we were successful, but we learned so much. And I didn't go, oh my gosh, how terrible that we sold 5,000 hoodies that should have had a half an inch wider diameter on this wrist sleeve. It's like, yo, we carry on. We learn in the next batch, got better than 10,000, then 20,000 hoodies. Now we're ordering 50,000, 70,000, 100,000 units at a time. So this expansion and this rollout was rapid, but our jiu-jitsu kind of accept the past is the past. As long as you took from that last chokehold that you got caught in, as long as you take from that and you apply that to the next session with the same training partner and you don't get caught in the same exact submission, you did better. You might lose in an armbar, you might get caught in an ankle lock, but that choke that you just lost in, you don't get caught in that choke again. So this failing forward is one of the most prominent principles in jiu-jitsu and one that I've applied almost religiously to this Quick Flip growth, to have done so much in so little time. I mean, once Shark Tank hit, it's like pouring fuel and the whole thing blows up and you got to just keep up with the demand. And that was quite a challenge. And I was very fortunate also to bring on just a great team led by my partner Jordan Talmor who runs it. And he's just a blessing. And I very much hired my weaknesses in him in terms of the logistics, the back end, all the kind of the supply chain stuff he's handling now from top to bottom. So, couldn't be happier with the team. So really hiring to your weaknesses failing forward. And don't get too emotional about a victory or defeat. Like, yo, if we win, cool, let's go on and let's see if we can replicate. If we lose, what do we learn? Move on to the next one. And I think that's very jiu-jitsu also, having the ego— having your ego in check enough to ultimately win or lose. And just, right, you see this a lot of times with people where it's like they lose hard and they win too— they celebrate too hard. With me, it's like we celebrate here, we lose here, but we stay like in this. Because when you're bouncing like this, that's— you're wasting so much energy going from top to bottom that you're not actually progressing from left to right.

Ah, so good. I'm going to switch to a real tactical topic because we have an interesting audience here made up of entrepreneurs who are also selling. And so you shifted from selling to consumers and had this amazing, incredible experience selling directly to consumers and now selling to businesses in this new partnership with S&S and everything that you've done there. What markets are you seeing success with? What do you see? What do you see that comes around that you're like, man, that is awesome, I never thought that would happen?

What kind of success are you seeing with what market? Great question. So what happened is after Shark Tank and things blew up and retail was killing it, enough retail, uh, fans of the Team Quick Flip kind of movement here, right? Because once you own a Quick Flip hoodie, like, you look around and you're like, you see everybody with sweat. You know how like once you buy a car, everyone has your car? Or once you have a pair of colored shoes, everyone has those red shoes? Or exactly. So now Mark is 100% Team Quick Flip. The point is, once you own a Quick Flip and you go to the airport in Colorado, and you see the awkward manners with which all of their $250 jackets are tied onto their suitcase and their bag, and all you can think is, oh my gosh, what a sad tragedy that such an expensive garment is so useless and so annoying to them right now, until the moment they go from the airport to the car. And then once they're back in the car, it's back to being annoying again. You guys, with me, I, I never am frustrated by my Quick Flow. I'm sitting here right now, I'm perfectly warm in this room. But I have a backpack inside there and I'm totally chilling. And if I go to the park right now with my son, inside my backpack goes his jacket that may or may not convert. So inside my backpack there's a jacket for my son. We get to the park, we play for 2 hours, it gets cold in the afternoon, and when it does, out comes his jacket, out comes my hoodie from my backpack, and I don't have something to lug around anymore. I don't have an empty just-in-case backpack. So once you're on Team Quick Flip, you don't know— it's like almost like going out into the wild without a convertible garment like this. It becomes kind of a liability, like, oh, what might we run into? And what if I have to tie my sweatshirt around my waist? So you don't risk it anymore. Point being, we got so many loyal followers and fans and, and, and really committed members of the team, Quick Flip, that these people who work for different organizations started reaching out. So when someone from Warner Brothers, right, gets a Quick Flip and loves it, what do they do? They go to their corporate, like, you know, the corporate gift buying person in the company, and they say, hey, you know, the all those things, we need these.. And then for the next corporate gift, they get these Warner Brothers— look at this— in goes the hoodie and out comes a custom Warner Brothers embroidered backpack right on the pocket right there. And then this gets pulled tight, and now these are corporate gifted all to Warner Brothers executives all over the country. And then Warner Brothers just kept going, and then Google heard about that, and then Google jumps on, on the campus there. All the kids get Google ones. And then you get the gifts, you guys. Universal Studios. This is one that I anticipated. So this is Halloween Horror Nights., and this is born at the ride at Universal Studios Hollywood. So these are Universal Studios garments. So the point is, now the technology company started reaching out. We got the Alienware, did these custom ones for all the gamers with the Alienware down the sleeve. This is actually a windbreaker. So Alienware windbreaker that is like super chill, turns into your— so cool, you guessed it, you guessed it— one snap lightweight all-weather. Look at how simple Alienware backpack. You guys, they love these. And then of course Costa Rica, right? Brazil, Hawaii, Seattle, the rainy territories, Florida. They called and they said, Henner, we love your quick flip idea, but we don't wear sweatshirts because they get moldy and wet the second you go out in this humidity. You can't wear that. So look what we got, you guys. This is the one that blew away the sharks. Damon didn't like it that much, but everybody else loved it. Kevin loved it. Robert, this is like the— this is the dry. There's camo, there's black, there's different colors. This is a nylon waterproof fabric. The water beads and rolls right off. If I had a bottle of water, I would show you guys right now. So you're in Seattle, it's raining. Right? And then it stops raining 10 minutes later. What do you normally do with your jacket? You regret bringing it. You wish you left it in the trunk of your car. Not anymore. This comes off. It's all wet, right? It's all wet. Sure it is. Check this out. You flip it upside down, give it one shake. Look, all the water beadlets fly off in slow motion. You guys, or you could be at Disneyland and it rains, then it stops, then it rains, then it stops, then it rains, then it stops. So check this out, let me show you guys the inside under the hood. Outside you see nothing, look inside you see— because people often ask, where are the strings? They want to know where are the draw cords inside and do you get all tangled up in them? Reasonable question from an uneducated Team Quick Flip member. Look over here, there's your hidden pouch. The secret is here. There's a secret layer in between the garment and the inside. That's the patent right there. You reach in, you grab the bottom of that, You shake and pull straight through, you turn it over, and out come your backpack straps that were fully concealed so they never touch your body. Now you pull this tight, and here's the best part. This has a pocket inside, dry pocket. This goes on, and look at this, you guys, the full functional backpack, the dry clips. And the best part about this one is the actual— because the garment might still be a little wet, but the lining is waterproof so that my back is not touching the garment that is drying out inside my breathable pouch. But the exterior of the rain jacket— come on, chair, you got me clipped on— the exterior is breathable, the interior is waterproof. So it breathes and airs out while you're not getting wet. This is the Dry Flip rain jacket. We just got it back in stock at the website. But the point is, everything's now customizable. And the transition into B2B happened when these customers started reaching out and say, hey, can you customize for us? Can you customize? So we literally got in the business of doing anywhere from 12, 24, 36, 48 to $3,500, you know, $5,000 custom for a whole corporation or a Google. This happened because it just made sense. If Google's gonna put their brand or ESPN, you know what I'm saying, wants to put their brand on a sweatshirt, the problem is— this was actually sold, this was actually sold at Disneyland there at the ESPN store. So ESPN is gonna put their brand. The problem is this: when it goes around someone's waist, look, now the ESPN brand is getting sat On a wet bench. How disrespectful to the brand. How useful— how useless to the garment, right? It's getting wet and there's bird crap on the bench. But instead, if this goes in, you guys know where I'm headed. I think you know where I'm headed. In goes your ESPN, out comes your ESPN favorite backpack. And why is the brand like this? Because ESPN gets twice the marketing. Because listen, when I sell a Gracie t-shirt, one benefit is the revenue I generate from the t-shirt., right? The margin that I make on a t-shirt. The bigger benefit is the billboard of a person walking around proudly wearing my family name, totally, to then get people knowing more about jiu-jitsu. So when you sell Quick Flip, you get twice the function and twice the branding because we customize it, and it's always an asset, never a liability. And the only question people have is, is it a hoodie that turns into a backpack, or is it a backpack— that turns into a hoodie? That's everyone's question. That's like the chicken and the egg question. And the answer is it's both. It just depends. Is it hot when you're in the house, or is it cold when you leave the house?

No matter where life takes you, we got your back. Uh, Henner, um, that— now we have for our supplier friends in the room and on the call a masterclass in product pitch for B2B.

So there you go, there's, there's that one too.

Henry, go ahead, Bobby, go ahead.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I, you know, I'm curious, Henry, this is an amazing journey, right? This is, this is incredible. You obviously have an incredible product, an incredible story, incredible family. There's so much here. You talk about adversity and challenges and how jiu-jitsu has actually helped you with that. What I really want to learn is, imagine you're sitting down with a young Henry before he started this particular venture as an entrepreneur, what would you share with him that would help prevent his biggest mistake?

Great question. I thought about this, and my biggest mistake was failing to apply my jiu-jitsu problem-solving DNA outside of jiu-jitsu for so long. Do you understand? Like, we have a very special thing. Jiu-Jitsu is very special. Listen, this is my— it's my passion. Hoodies are my— it's like a profession, but it's, you know, it's a sweatshirt, it's a jacket. And, you know, Jiu-Jitsu saves lives. Hoodies can save a life too. But, you know, we're talking a different category here of life-changing impact. And all my life's been Jiu-Jitsu, and I've been so immersed in that Jiu-Jitsu bubble that I never thought to apply my problem-solving DNA outside of that world., and I've applied it very effectively in that world, and not just for techniques but also for online university, for teaching of jiu-jitsu through the internet. So we've really kind of restructured how jiu-jitsu is taught globally based on this innovation mindset that my brother and I possess. Failing to apply it outside of jiu-jitsu sooner in life, I think, was the big mistake. And, uh, it's very interesting because I've been to the industry trade shows, right? The B2B, the promotional products trade shows, all the ones throughout the country. The first year we just went on the tour and it was like always on the road. And it was so cool to be at these trade shows and then have industry big timers, guys that come up, a guy like Mike will come up and say, 'Henry,' after I do my full pitch and I'm rolling on the floor in these trade shows and, you know, they're all filming with their cameras. It's a whole spectacle, right? Like, I'm like, and in my mind, my thought is I'm have to be like, literally my guys were like, 'Henry, you have to go to the bathroom.' I'm like, 'No,' because I drink a full bottle of water every hour and then I sweat it out. So there's no bathroom, it just comes out naturally. And I wouldn't leave. 8 hours straight pitching the whole time, flipping every 6 minutes to 4 to 6 minutes is my pitch cycle in terms of pitching and then getting them to buy in the back and then pitching and getting to buy. So people will come by and my thought was I can't afford not to do a pitch. I can't afford to be gone for 6 minutes and miss a cycle where the potential buyer or the person who's going to make the decision for so-and-so company. And ironically, this is where I got connected through SNS, which we'll talk about in a second. But the point is, I couldn't afford 10, 12, 20, 30 people on a show that I would do on these little booths that I can't miss because I don't know who's in the audience. And it was just so cool to do those shows and have people come up after and say, 'Henry, this is really remarkable. I've been in this industry for 25 years.' And remember, I'm in my first and second year at this point. 'I've been in the industry of apparel for 25 years, promotional products. This is the one we've been waiting for in terms of something innovative enough that warrants a real push to our customers, to the industry. Like, this is totally different. This isn't kind of different. This is a hoodie that is also a backpack. Never tied around your waist again. It functions as both, and you're not sacrificing quality or comfort. You're getting a very comfortable sweatshirt that you don't even know is a backpack until it turns into a backpack, at which point it's there for you. So it was not good enough for me to make a hoodie that turns into a backpack if the hoodie was kind of cumbersome and awkward or looked weird, or a backpack that didn't quite function as a backpack. My wife wouldn't have it. The point is it functions as both. My hoodie is better quality than your hoodie. My backpack is better quality than your backpack because your drawstring backpacks don't have adjustable cord locks. Mine do. That's the whole point. So a better backpack, a better hoodie merged for a better overall experience. So when these guys with the industry experience come up and say, Hunter, you're doing the big thing here, and this is, this is something else, like you have no idea what this can do in this industry. That was the reassurance that I needed because I'm amateur and I'm rookie. I'm like, I'm in promotional products and I'm like, how does this thing all work? And distributorship, it was all new to me. And they were throwing terms about that industry. I'm like, wow, this is a whole beast of its own. When they come in with all their experience and say, Henner, all the jargon you'll learn over time. You have something that we need and this is what we've been waiting for. Thank you. I'll take a sample and they'll go ahead and buy a sample in the back and they're all stoked.

So I want to make just a, you know, an interesting observation about your answer there, Henner. And I think that, you know, in all of my experience in the promotional products industry for around 20 years is that if you look I look at anyone, whether they're a business owner, a salesperson, distributor, supplier, it doesn't matter where they are. And you nailed it. The true key to anyone who's successful in this space, in this business, is someone that is able to take a passion that lives on in their life outside of work and able to bring those principles into their work. So whether you call that like work-life integration or whether it's someone that just really brings and is able to leverage that passion to help them solve their business in a more creative way, like whether they're runners or whether they're professional or people who play hockey or they're jiu-jitsu, as you say, or just even people that are, let's say, into photography or into the arts or just anything like that. I feel anyone that is able to bring these external influences into their work are the ones that it's going to be— they're going to be more successful and it's a heck of a lot more fun.

So that's awesome advice. I'm with it. Yeah. And I'm with it. And, you know, someone could look at this and say, yeah, hoodies and jiu-jitsu, what do they have to do with each other? To me, everything, you know, makes tons of sense in terms of, you know, this— like I said, all the problem-solving aspect and everything I was born and raised doing. And this was a no-brainer, and it's just so fascinating, right? And other inventors that I've spoken to since and before Shark Tank, and people who are really innovators, and they say, yeah, Henry, it's interesting because oftentimes in an industry, the, the greatest innovation will happen by someone who's not from the industry. Absolutely. And I love that. I'm like, wow, most of the innovation is not from within because the people who are within are kind of like this. This is like just what we do all the time. This is how things are. A hoodie has one zipper and two pockets. There's no third backpack. There's no additional function there. People buy them as is. So it's so ironic, right, that there are billion-dollar companies that have been selling hoodies forever that didn't think that tying a sweatshirt or jacket when you're not wearing it— all they're thinking about is making the item successful and innovative while you're wearing it, right? That's great. I'm like, wait a minute, but we're not wearing it more than 50% of the time. Yeah, yeah. And if you're out and about, what a freaking liability that is. So I spent all my effort on the not wearing aspect initially, and then I backed into, okay, now that we figured out the technology, let's make a hoodie so comfortable, so easy, so simple that you can wear it proudly as your favorite hoodie but also know that it always has your back.

Yeah. You know what I also think is interesting, and I'll make one last comment, and Bobby, maybe we can go into the final question from you, is that if you think about any business or service that's successful, it oftentimes will start in a niche or a niche, depending on where, how you like to pronounce that word. And I think it's so fascinating with you is that you have this like laser focus with this small addressable market, right? And and he produced a hooded sweatshirt that could also couple as a bag, not really thinking that it would be some kind of mainstream success, but it took off within the small addressable market of people who were rabid fans. They spoke about it, they talked about it, they shared it, and all of a sudden Google saw it, Warner Brothers saw it, the guy in Venice Beach saw it, and that's not in jiu-jitsu. And then now you see how these products and ideas tip. And I just love when you see a product that's mainstream, and you can often just go back and look at it and see how it starts off in these very small, humble ways. So it's such a great story. I think it validates a lot of how I think about business.

And so kudos to you. Bobby, do you want to end it off? Well, just to add on to that right there, Mark, before Bobby jumps in, is, you know, absolutely. Listen, they always say it like, I didn't go home that Tuesday morning December 27th, 3 or 4 years ago— 4 years ago now— with the idea of starting a new company. Do you understand? I went home with the idea of solving my problem. Yes, yes. And I think that for our friends out there who are, who are all over the world, and, you know, the Common Skew community, you know, that's really the question is that, you know, really being in touch as you live day to day and you experience life, really allowing yourself to be sensitive to the daily friction or frustrations that exist in your everyday existence. Yes. And as you see those frictions, you then have to ask yourself, does it have to be this way? Is it possible that this isn't the way? That there would be a— is it contemplatable that there might be a different way? And if the answer is yes, then just say, okay, let me just explore a possibility. Just have fun with it. Just duct tape, shoestrings, paper clips, and just mess around. And if the first step in that direction, the 30-minute, the 24-hour prototype, we'll call it the first 24 hours of just what's up. If that, you pull it out of the office and you show some people and they're intrigued by it and they go, wow, I've had that same problem. The point is every testimonial and every reassuring tone or voice or person that's in your family or outside who says, yeah, That'd be dope if you made those. Every one of those counts, and let that count, and let that count, and let it build that momentum. And that's all I did, is it only became a company after every single person I shared my prototype with was like, man, 100%, where can I buy one?

And then I said, John, let's do this. Yeah, Henry, I, uh, last question we have for you, and we're gonna have one from the community here. Mark Jackson, friend of ours here that's on live, asked this question, and I love asking the same question of entrepreneurs and executives and salespeople, whoever you are, what's on your desk right now? And the question Mark's asking, he's asking it this way. You've had this amazing experience. It seems like you're the type that's always looking forward, always looking to solve the next problem.

What's next in the pipeline for Henner? Shoot, bro.

You got me.

We got you.

I can't believe it.

That was the right hole. I got the right move. You have to speak categorically, because the jiu-jitsu henna— we have some freaking monsters, some freaking major missiles ready to be launched in the jiu-jitsu category that are, that are right there pending, you know, some final steps, and they're going to blow up. Um, the entrepreneurial henna has a whole nother quick flip contemplated already. That I haven't even— another invention that solves another one of the most frustrating problems in the world that I've already invented. My wife and I, we already actually got the patent approved for this one, and we're literally like, that's a freaking monster. But we can't even do it because we're so busy with Quick Flip and with Gracie University. It's just sitting there, and it's almost— it's so good that I almost want to just like give it to some other henna out there in the world and say, bro, you run with this one because I don't got time for this one. That's how good it is, and that's how little time we have for that one. And then with Quick Flip, um, you know, the natural progression of international distribution, the progression of other continuing to the line extension of just other items that utilize our technology, um, going with S&S is a new partnership with us. For S&S, we're very excited about the distributorship partnership that we never had before. We did all distribution ourselves prior to 3 months ago, so that's all plugged in now. So all of these aspects are, um, so Quick Flips' path forward is clear. It's just, it's, it's, it's general public awareness. It's creative marketing. You know, the Venice Beach video had its, had its burst and it did great work and got us in a lot of eyes. And people recognize me on the street now as, hey, you're that hoodie guy. And I used to only get that for jiu-jitsu. So to be recognized as the hoodie backpack guy is pretty remarkable. And, um, you know, so, so that's growing and it's pretty strong. And just continuing to refine our operations, our, our manufacturing. So all of that just has kind of some growing pains that we're excited to go through and You know, we'll live and learn on that. But, uh, so for Quick Flip, it's just moving in a healthy manner. Um, new licensing opportunities of the technology, always excited to find new customers, theme parks, working on some stuff right now with Disneyland, like in the parks, actual Disneyland products for the park. So all this is natural progression. But, um, you know, this is it for Quick Flip. I won't stop until every hoodie turns into a backpack, until everyone gets to the point where we reach critical mass of customers and, and, and, and following and loyalty where they just go, no, the same way I won't. I'm like, no, I won't leave the house. That's why, you know, Gracie hoodies, like we make Gracie hoodies on Quick Flip now. We used to make them on random other, you know, hoodies that I'm sure, you know, many of the brands and just stamp the logo on it. But then our customers were like, well, we want the Gracie one that has the Quick Flip. So now the Gracie hoodie has Quick Flip, you know. So many of our items have that because I won't wear Gracie unless it turns into a backpack. So that's the point is I'm just living like my life of passion for Quick Flip, and then people who jump on are on it. And then, uh, for me, it's just, it's just a very gradual educational process. But once you're on Team Quick Flip, you can't go back because you're dropping 50% utility and function and freedom that Quick Flip provides. And it's kind of, it's kind of a no-go in that direction. So that's where Quick Flip is headed. But the other one is a monster. And then jiu-jitsu is always growing because it's just the time right now with the UFC, the popularity and the effectiveness of jiu-jitsu. It's the new karate, it's the new taekwondo, it's the way forward as martial arts. Delivers a promise that few other martial arts can, which is a smaller person, less athletic, not as powerful, not as strong, can reliably defend themselves against a violent, larger, aggressive person in a physical altercation. And that promise has been claimed by many but not delivered on, whereas jiu-jitsu for the last 100 years has made that promise a reality, which is why, you know, it's growing at the rate that it is. So I couldn't be happier to be in the Gracie family and really spearheading the growth in both the instruction and dissemination of jiu-jitsu, um, around the world. So it's very exciting, and I'll just keep chugging along.

I won't stop till I drop. Awesome.

That's awesome.

Wow. Well, thank you so much, uh, Rener.

This was just an absolute tour de force. Uh, I tell you, we look at the time, it's 50 minutes. It feel— it felt like it went by in 5 minutes. So, um, but on behalf of the whole Common Skew community, a big, big thank you. And I also want to say that we are delighted because of your generosity as well as S&S that there will be 100 limited edition Commskew branded QuickFlips that will be distributed at random to people that registered for the podcast. For those people who are curious about how that'll happen, if you're selected as a winner, you'll receive an email and we'll get your, all your particulars, and then S&S and QuickFlip will send that out shortly in the next week or so. So excited about it. I've been wearing mine nonstop for the last several weeks, and I can tell you that it is amazing as a bag and as a hoodie, and I don't really know which one it is because it's both.

There you go. So I appreciate the opportunity to educate more people and also this opportunity to speak about Quick Flip from both a sales, a marketing, and motivation, a problem-solving perspective. That to me, that's half the fun. You know, selling hoodies is cool, but you know, solving problems is my passion, whether it's on the mat or off. And to be able to apply that in this entrepreneurial way with the with an item, a product that every single person on the planet has, and a problem that every single person on the planet has experienced. It's just fun to play in that pool of, uh, a vast expansion. Whereas jiu-jitsu, 1% of the world will ever even want to do jiu-jitsu. 100% of the planet has hoodies and hates when they take it off and don't know what to do with it.

So I'm excited to be playing in that pool. Awesome. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody.

All right, see you next time.

You guys take care. Bye-bye.