Episode 168: Crafting the Iconic with Midnight Rider’s Mitra Khayyam

What have you learned about licensing that you didn't know when you first started out?

I thought it was like this untouchable brass ring. I thought that you had to be a bigwig who was throwing around a lot of money and were able to play with the big boys. I realized that the quality of my product and the uniqueness of my brand were enough to get me in the door with most of these clients. So all I had to do was ask. I was my biggest roadblock.

That's the voice of Mitra Khayyam, creative director, brand strategist, and founder of shopmidnightwriter.com. She wrote a thesis in design school on how the t-shirt can democratize art. And from there, the daughter of Iranian immigrants moves from the high fashion world in New York City to Los Angeles to create not just one, but two iconic brands that have sold in stores like Urban Outfitters Nordstrom, and Free People. And her t-shirts have reached cult status, being worn by Lil Wayne, Britney Spears, Paramore, Miranda Lambert, and Tim McGraw, and featuring artwork from emerging artists including folks like Todd Tursow, Beyoncé's creative director, and Kanye collaborator Kali DeWitt. The Los Angeles Times called her a pioneer.

I think it's really a paradox as to how a Persian girl from the same Fernando Valley got into country music. Down the Mississippi, down through New Orleans. I remember listening to The Cramps, and they turned me on to a lot of rockabilly.

And Mitra is one of our special guests speaking at SKUCon on January 7th, where we'll talk further about how to create merchandise experiences that connect. We hope you can join us there to see Mitra in person, virtually of course, and you can learn more and register at SKUCon.com. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, the Chief Content Officer at CommonsQ, and welcome to the Skewcast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the branded merchandise industry. This episode is brought to you by us here at CommonsQ. We are the work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to dramatically grow your sales. To learn more about us, or rather about how you can grow with us, visit commonsq.com. Today's conversation is ideal for this community. You're going to love it because we talk about building bold brands, licensing, creating high-demand apparel, we chat all around this intersection of art and commerce and branded merchandise. And mostly, this is an inspiring story of the tenacity of the entrepreneurial spirit. Now, here's my conversation with Mitra Khayyam of shopmidnightwriter.com, and you're jumping in the middle of our conversation where she's sharing how she got her start.

I went to design school in New York City and I tried working in the high-end fashion industry, working for like French fashion houses, and I didn't feel comfortable there. It wasn't a place for me. However, I got a job working for like a streetwear company in the late '90s, early 2000s that specialized in making premium men's t-shirts. And I really found my stride in that market. I felt a lot more comfortable. It seemed like it was more accessible, both, you know, lifestyle-wise and, you know, price point-wise. It wasn't a lot of— for me, what I felt working in the fashion industry the first few years was that it was very exclusionary. And for me, I wanted to work with products that were democratized and that anyone could access. And so that's why I kind of fell in love with t-shirts. Anyone can own one. You don't need to be affluent. You don't need You know, you can wear one anywhere. You don't have to be going to events. You can dress it up or down. And that's kind of how I made the transition from the high-end fashion industry to making really great quality t-shirts.

Well, let's talk about that transition real quick then. You went from this streetwear experience, from high fashion to streetwear experience, and then right into Blood Is the New Black?

Pretty much. I went to Parsons School of Design and I got a degree in design management and marketing. Like I said, I'm not an artist, but I wanted to work in art and design, and it seemed like the perfect fit for me. Like, I used to be a kid in the foyer and I would set up a fake store and have my friends come over and shop at my store. So I've always been entrepreneurial. So my thesis at Parsons was, how can t-shirts democratize art?

I love that.

Yeah. And this was like 1999, before every major brand had done an artist collaborative t-shirt. There was, there was like one or two Japanese or French labels doing it, but as an industry and as a, you know, specific point of view, it didn't exist.

Yeah.

And so that thesis turned into a business plan, and I was hired out of college to work for a t-shirt line in Los Angeles. So I moved back to LA, which is where I more or less grew up. And I was there for about a year, and I'm a terrible employee. I would— I got myself fired. I am feral. I can't work for someone. So I did my best, but my best wasn't very good. And I was fired within a year. But the opportunity kind of popped up for me to start my own brand. And I took the concept that I had written about my a year and a half prior in college, and I started Blood Is New Black, and Urban Outfitters was our first client.

That line was embraced by a legion of fans and many artists and celebrities. Can you give us a glimpse as to the scope of how successful that became and some of the, some of the folks that were wearing, some of the celebrities that were wearing your gear? I just want folks that are listening to get a sense of how you created this business from this thesis you created about a t-shirt, and it just And it just erupted.

Yeah, it was wild. I mean, folks from Lil Wayne to Britney Spears to Paramore and Tegan and Sara. At the time, it was huge. And we were selling to stores like Urban Outfitters and Nordstrom. But at the same time, we were creating programs for high-end boutiques in Japan and Paris, like Isetan and Colette in Paris. And then on the flip side, doing private label programs for Forever 21 and TJ Maxx. So What started with, you know, a paper ended up being a fairly large business.

That's wild.

Yeah. And, you know, being 24, I thought I knew a lot about how to run a business. And I think part of that innocence and that gusto and maybe some hubris really led to great success for a really long time. But scaling was tough. And I think I learned a lot about how to effectively scale. But it was the best education I could have gotten.

I imagine at 24 years old. Now you also reimagined a different way to create an expression by using original art. Can you tell us a little bit about that so that we can understand the context and where that passion started and why? And do you, and do you think that was a part of the success of, of it all?

Absolutely. So Blood Is New Black was a collaborative brand. I would curate collections. Designed by artists with very little direction from me. And we worked with over 100 artists. Their name would go on the neck of every t-shirt. There would be a hang tag promoting their work and linking to their website. So it was never about Blood Is the New Black, the brand. It was about Blood Is the New Black being a canvas and a tool to promote the work of artists who may not have access to large distribution channels.

As an aside, Mitra, this is a passion of yours too, right? On, in your personal life, you're constantly discovering new artists because it's what you love.

Yes. Like I really enjoy, and living in Los Angeles, it's such a blessing. We have a wonderful art scene here that rivals New York City and so much new, fresh talent. Like this weekend alone, I was able to go to 3 different galleries by appointment. It's just never-ending, the amount of inspiration and talent coming out of here.

Yeah. Yeah. And I interrupted you. You were getting into the custom designs or artistic designs.

Yeah. In the pre-Instagram era, I think artists had fewer channels. There were a lot of really great publications promoting their work, but there weren't necessarily mass market channels where artists could show their designs. So by working with some of these folks, they went on to do really great things. One of whom became Beyoncé's creative director. Another one did a tour capsule for Kanye West. So I can't say that that was what Blood Is New Black did on its own, but it was a tool that these artists could use to further promote themselves in their careers.

Yeah. Share with us a glimpse of what creating and promoting that line was like, and, and what did you learn from that experience?

Oh my gosh, it was really wild. We would do some peculiar things to promote that brand. For example, we We're one of the first people to have a food truck that sold apparel. Yeah, we called it the Summer Fling Truck and we drove around LA. We partnered with Coolhaus who do some really great ice cream sandwiches and we sold our t-shirts on the truck, uh, at events and at different pop-ups. So that was like an example of like one thing that we kind of did as a marketing initiative. We did partnerships with Urban Outfitters at their stores where we would do month-long events, curated events. We even had a hot dog eating contest, which has nothing to do with t-shirts, but you know, when, when they give you free rein, you kind of take with it and run, right? But you know, it's like we were kids and we were having so much fun. We were pretty wild in the way that we did things, like a lot of pop-up shops. We did a pop-up shop in a 60-square-foot space just showing how we could utilize small space for business, you know. Well, that kind of popped up. It was really fun. It— and I think the era was so carefree, especially before the financial crisis. It was so carefree. We had so much fun. And that's what so much of it is about. It's hard to quantify having fun, I think, sometimes for brands. And we forget to do it as a result because we're so caught up on, like, you know, the stats. Even, like, you know, at this point in time, me too. Like, I I let the numbers rule way more often than I used to.

Yeah. And back in those days when everything was so raw, I mean, it's funny, you remind me of the— there's a lot of the street poet scene, a lot of the street, you know, the street music scene that you've embodied in your work and what you were doing back then. You also learned a lot about building community. Was that a surprise to you or was that natural? How did that come about?

I think it's natural for me. I think I'm a natural connector. I think that that is like my gift. My gift is not necessarily that I'm good at creating apparel brands. I think my gift is that I want to share things that I care about and things that I think have value with others, and that I'm just a channel.

How did— what did you— what did you learn about this? What, like, back then, what would you tell a young Mitra about building community? Because we're all about building community here at Common Skew, and also we encourage our customers to do the same thing with their clients and create this, you know, this passionate group of not just fans, but close people that you can really connect with. What did you learn about that?

I think some things that I learned were about making sure that I had really good boundaries on my end and that I was still taking care of myself on my end. Yeah, you know, I think there, there needs to be balance, and I sacrificed some of that balance when I was younger. But also, I think that we need to carry ourselves with, like, grace and integrity. Our brands are acting as a conduit for other people's livelihood. And it's really important. And this is something that I've always been proud of, is that like running an honest business that has integrity in its product and integrity in the way that we run things behind the scenes gives me relief when I have somebody else's name on my apparel that I'm shipping out the door.

Yeah. Yeah. So Blood Is the New Black experienced this incredible success. You had these amazing people wearing your gear. You created this beautiful sense of community. And then you moved on to create an entirely different brand called Midnight Rider.

Yeah. I didn't think I ever would.

What do you mean? Do you think you thought you were done, or—

Well, I just couldn't— you know, our imagination is so finite. Right. It was not in my realm of possibility. Through a peculiar series of events, my father passed away away in January of 2011. In July of 2011, I was hit with an incredibly large 8-figure lawsuit about— yeah, that's right, that's the right emotion— um, about an image that we had used on one of our tops that the photographer had not secured model rights for, or model release for. And within 2 weeks of getting hit with that lawsuit, I got a message from Shooter Jennings asking if I wanted to do his dad's merchandise.

And, you know, wow.

I, I think there's synchronicity in this world. I don't, I don't think that I'm behind the wheel. I think I'm responsible for how I conduct myself on a day-to-day basis, but I don't think I'm calling the shots here. And, you know, we went through the lawsuit, and fortunately Fortunately, I had business insurance. So for every small business owner, I always say, "Make sure you have insurance." Oh, yeah.

That's good.

But with the closing, I sold Blood Is New Black. With the sale of Blood Is New Black, after The Suit, and starting Midnight Rider, and this opportunity that came to me by way of Shooter, it really felt like a natural transition in what I was meant to be doing next.

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of Shooter, my favorite Shooter Jennings song is Fourth of July. That is my absolute favorite song, and I can't tell you how many times I've played that. And speaking of Midnight Rider, and we'll talk about where to go to shop at Midnight Rider, which is shopmidnightrider.com, I'm also wearing my Listen to Townes Van Zandt shirt that I bought from Shop Midnight Rider because I'm a huge Texas songwriter, singer-songwriter scene fan. And so it's really cool merch. And tell us a little bit about Midnight Rider. You talk about a shift. You not leap in terms of musical genres, but also in terms of style. And yet you're still using this same thesis about a t-shirt. But tell us a little bit about Midnight Rider.

That's right. Midnight Rider is a licensed premium t-shirt line that focuses on sharing work from artists in the country and western scene. We have expanded a little bit beyond that, but we try to focus on musicians and icons more so appealing to the Western community. So we work with folks like Waylon Jennings, Townes Van Zandt that you mentioned, Nudie's Rodeo Tailors, which if you are a fan of Western wear, you know all about his work. And then we also do designs for David Bowie, Janis Joplin, Bad Company, Miles Davis, Muddy Waters, Aretha Franklin, Isaac Hayes, Eric Clapton, the list goes on. But I, in addition to being, you know, a lover of art, I'm a lover of music. And, you know, I grew up a little goth chick. And I think sometimes when you're a goth, you inevitably end up listening to The Cramps, and then The Cramps turn you on to primitive country and rockabilly. And then from there, it's a very natural transition. I feel like country is where punks go when they get old.

Oh, that's so true. That is so So true. Now, I followed your Spotify playlists, so tell us who are some of your faves. Is that like asking who your favorite kid is? Favorite food? Who are some of your faves?

Right now I'm listening to a lot of Terry Allen.

Oh yeah, he has a great song about the Amarillo Highway.

Yes, he does. And he's also a fine artist. He went to, I think he went to, if I'm not mistaken, I think he went to Chouinard, which is now Art Center, or I'm sorry, it's CalArts., and a lot of really great artists came out of there in the '60s and '70s. Most of them stayed in Los Angeles. Terry went back, but some of the albums that he's made have been like real great conceptual works that work alongside some of the art that he's created as well. He's just, you know, some people— and we can say this for Townes Van Zandt, we can say this for Billy Joe Shaver— some people just have a way with words that almost feels like— is unhuman. And I think, you know, the connection with the human condition in such a nuanced way that so many of us neglect it because we're so wrapped up in our day-to-day lives. And I think much like John Pryne, like Terry Allen really has a real knack for that.

Yeah, for sure. I love his work. I think he's from Lubbock, Texas. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Yeah. No, I think you're right about that.

Midnight Rider brand is this Americana brand then, with sort of— it's got a '70s style, a lot of attitude, some bold expressions. And we saw how you got the segue from developing for Shooter to creating this brand. What brand story does Midnight Rider tell? Because you're putting together this personality in this collection. You learned a lot from Blood Is New Black. And I'm curious then, is there a cohesive story that this collection tells?

I think it tells a story of any music lover. None of us are genre-specific. You know, if you're a real fan of music, you are not one-dimensional. And so is this brand. You know, it's for someone who really appreciates the nuance and craft of songwriting and musical talent the same way, like, we put a lot of care into creating our garments. There's a lot of hand-done details. We hand-distress all of the men's crews. Some of the women's tops are hand-distressed as well. We use special dye batches to make sure that things look like they've been aged and well-worn without compromising the quality of the product. Everything's made here in Los Angeles. We make everything in the US. That's been important for me.

Talk about that for a little bit. Why is that so important to you? And then, and then I guess as important, you've had to make some difficult choices to keep it that way and to stay on that path. Can you express a little bit about that?

Sure. I think it goes back to what we've been talking about as far as community. I know all of my manufacturers. I have worked with one of my screen printers for 10, 12 years. You know, he shares stories with me about his childhood. Him and his partner, you know, share their lunch with me. It's more than just, business relationship after a while. And I see how the bills that we pay positively affect these businesses and these individuals, their ability to hire more people, their ability to lease a larger space, the ability to bring on more clients because the work that they can show that they've done for our brand. It's important, you know. I do create some products in China. I make some pins and patches and smaller, you know, goods like that in China. And I will say, like, my Chinese rep and I, like, we, we also have a relationship. So I don't think that there's, you know, when you work with somebody outside of the United States, you're working with a robot or someone who doesn't have a face. There's still great relationships you can have with individuals regardless of where they are. Maybe it's just something that I prioritize, and so I will find that no matter where I go. But I do like working in the US. I also think that it is my responsibility to contribute, and so by keeping my dollar here, I am continuing to contribute to the economy here.

Yeah, we have a lot of folks listening that are makers and they're running manufacturing. About 30% of our audience are actual makers. Some of them run very large companies, some of them run smaller companies, and then we have distributors or folks like you that are doing the creating the branding, the merchandising, and the marketing. And, and so that's why this conversation about working with partners is vital for this community as well. Anything else you want to say on that topic, by the way, in terms of how to work better with your partners?

No one— I think, and this is something I'm sure everybody feels nowadays— no one's in it to win. I don't think that if somebody else loses, I'm gaining. So when it comes down to like some of the dollars and cents Sometimes we're the ones who need to make the sacrifice. I don't think it's fair to always be needling on price point. Sometimes we're the ones that may need to make the sacrifice. And my product is not an inexpensive product. It retails for $49.99 for our basic tee when Target is selling band merchandise for $14.99. And that's okay. Like, not everybody needs to buy what I'm making. And if it doesn't work for you, no hard feelings. I don't need to win everyone Right.

Well, I know exactly how much a t-shirt costs. I was happy to pay for that $50 Townsvans Ant shirt and my Highway Kind patch as well, which I'm proudly going to wear. I appreciate it. Yeah. So Midnight Riders, again, this is kind of interesting to me how you switch genres, if you will, styles almost, where Midnight Riders is now in Urban Outfitters, Free People, and Anthropologie, right?

We have sold to Urban Outfitters in the past. Right now we are working with Anthropologie and Free People.

Yeah.

Got it.

Yeah. What have you learned about that, working through retail channels? I'm just curious at this point.

You know, I don't have large issue with most of our partners or any issue really. I think there's certain things I've learned is that some folks will need more attention than others. We have to look at the volume of business and see how much we can allocate. We're still a small business. I have, counting myself, we have 5 employees and freelancers, and most of my employees actually work part-time, not full-time. So we need to look at our resources in-house and see what we can allocate to some of the clients who take a bit more time and see if that shakes out. You know, wholesale's been really interesting this year because we used to work with 60 to 70 mom-and-pop boutiques. And we love to service them, and they are— you, you know the love that's going into stores like that. We've seen a handful of them close this year, unfortunately, and we've also seen a little bit of indecisiveness when it comes to taking in product that they've ordered. Right. And so we're trying to figure out right now what the best way to move forward is with our wholesale clients who are doing business on a smaller scale. It may be more of an be its business going forward so that we can adapt to their needs as their needs change in this new environment. But that's been kind of the piece of the puzzle that we're trying to figure out.

Part of the reason why we are so excited to have you at SKUCON and also having you here on SKUcast is because there are so many similarities between folks that are listening to this and your story and what you're doing for brands and what you're doing for your brand, including working with a smaller team, and yet you're working with some of these larger organizations. Let me ask this question, and maybe you might need to give us some context. The Waylon Jennings line— can you share a little bit about taking this timeless brand, in this case of legacy artist, and making that particular brand appeal to younger audiences?

I don't think there is a special trick or formula to it. I think, I think it's intuitive. I wanted to make something I would want to wear. Right. Right. You know, that's, that's kind of what it came down to. And we, take care in making sure that the products that we design are true to life for the partner. So for Waylon, making sure that the design is— there's synchronicity between the design and the song. That we have things of various price points for various customers. With Waylon, I do his mass market merch, and we also have a website for his fans exclusively, which is waylandshop.com. And I make sure that there's accessible product because I know that there is a difference between the older Waylon fans who may be on a fixed income and Midnight Rider fans who are younger and at times don't have children and additional expenses.

Is that where I can get my Lash Hat?

It is. Um, great. You know, the Lash Hat— I'm glad you brought that up. That's something I'm excited about.

I love that hat.

Yeah, it's so— you know, it took, it took 2 years of emailing Stetson and sending them decks and showing them proof of concept for them to be open to the collaboration. But yeah, it was well worth it. I'm so incredibly proud of that product. I mean, you should be. 2 legacy brands, Waylon and Stetson, together is just iconic and a great heirloom for any fan.

I'm such a fanboy about everything you just said. Stetson and Waylon and the Lash Hat. How do you develop your own unique imprint, your own unique style? Because we have a lot of folks now— I firmly believe that we are entering an era where a lot of the folks listening are doing a lot more custom merch, for example. And we're entering an era where your skills and your talents and what you've done with these brands are what we are having to do now for even corporate clients every day. And there are folks listening to this that are working with some very progressive companies. What have you learned about creating your unique sense of style, creativity, and art form on a t-shirt?

I think authenticity is so important. And by that, I don't mean like, for me personally, like creating a t-shirt that looks authentically from 1976, but for me, having a product that is authentic to the style, the lyrics, that reflects the lifestyle of the musician that we are partnering with is so incredibly important. We had a hiccup and we created a John Denver West Virginia Mountain Mama t-shirt and the design had a cactus on it. Well, there are no cacti in West Virginia. Right. And you know, my mistake, I let that slide. It was a great design and our buyer that we created it for really liked it. But we got called out on that. People were not happy, and they wanted us to know what West Virginia looked like. So yeah, it's really important to always be authentic and keep the integrity of the musician and the music in mind.

Such a great comment because we have folks that are working with brands who also have core values. And we do have Maria speaking at SKUCon too who's going to talk about this, how to translate those core values onto merch and into merchandise as well. And so there's a lot of— I'm connecting the dots here, but there's a lot of similarities between what you're doing. Now, this is a big question because I'm sure this is what a lot of folks are asking at this point. What have you learned about licensing that you didn't know when you first started out?

I thought it was like this untouchable brass ring. I thought that you had to be a bigwig who was throwing around a lot of money and were able to play with the big boys. I realized that the quality of my product and the uniqueness of my brand were enough to get me in the door with most of these clients. So all I had to do was ask. I was my biggest roadblock.

Well, and about this licensing, then basically everything you're selling practically has a licensing component to it, almost, or maybe 30, 70% About 70% sounds about right.

We do our own branded graphics as well, things that just fit in well with the lifestyle, but 70% of what I do is licensed.

What's your favorite product you developed recently?

We have been playing a lot with tie-dyes, and we did a tie-dye yin-yang t-shirt that was like this whole entire oversized heavyweight t-shirt that was meant to be worn as a dress. And that was excruciating to try to create en masse in the middle of COVID But we got to the other side. And for that alone, I am so pleased with the way it came out. That's awesome. And that's when I do get to play a little bit of designer. With the licensed goods, I don't want to take too many creative liberties that are off the wall. But with some of our in-house unbranded merchandise, I get to play a little bit more. Yeah.

What's the— I'm just curious now too, what's your hottest selling products right now? I'm trying to get an idea for the feel for what's happening in the market.

Our bestseller for the last year and a half has been the John Denver Country Roads Take Me Home t-shirt. Why do you think that one? It really provides a sense of nostalgia. It doesn't say where home is. Yeah, great point. There's this great podcast Chad Abumrad did about Dolly Parton, and they talk about her Tennessee country home, and he compares it to his father's home in Lebanon.

Yes, I heard that episode.

It's amazing. It's beautiful. It's really beautiful. And I think it's the idea of home that really draws people in.

You are approaching some of these brands when we talked about licensing, you're approaching some of these brands to present to them your concept and idea. What have you learned about the, that part of the process? When you mentioned the Lash Hat, you had to go to Stetson, whom you just can't get a hat made by Stetson. You know, that's, that's near impossible. What did you learn about presenting your concept to folks to get them to buy in?

I had to learn a lot about presenting because keep in mind, I haven't had a job since I was 24 years old and I'm going to be going on 40 next year. So I, when I say that I'm feral, I truly mean that I'm feral. I don't know, you know, any systems and processes that we have in place, I've had to develop and learn on my own. So as far as like doing decks and pitches, I don't know the formal way to do these things, but I think we still do a really great job of it. So it's knowing your product, it's knowing your clientele, it's knowing your own business, knowing your own stats, and being able to share those with confidence, as well as knowing that you have damn good product.

Yeah. Yeah, right. Confidence, right? That's, that's, that's a big part of it. Tell me a little bit about working with a small team and, and, uh, the challenge of bootstrapping and, and just working with small teams and yet working with these large brands, some of these large companies. What's that experience like? And what have you learned?

I think between Blood Is the New Black and Midnight Rider, I did a lot of things differently. And the businesses were about the same size. Right now Midnight Rider is at where Blood Is the New Black was at. And it's last year. But, uh, with Blood Is New Black, I had 11 employees. Yeah, I realized I could do more with less. Part of that is also myself. Like, I want to be more than just a boss. I don't want to be answering questions all day. I want to be involved in the process itself. And when I had a large team, I couldn't do that. So I have hired folks who are really good self-starters. They don't need a lot of micromanaging, and they are able to bring really great ideas to the table as well, knowing that they will be heard. So I allow my employees to participate in the business in ways that they think that they could increase business, in ways that they think they could increase efficiency, in systems that they can create that help production, because the way that I've done it may not be the best way. And so now I'm willing to hear more. And then we have been really lucky. The brand has been profitable since day one. You know, this year we had about a 35% increase in sales. Wow, congratulations! Thank you. Last year we had another 30% from the year prior, so we have been able to continue to grow without any investment. We have been approached by individuals in the VC world who wanted to invest, and I, I don't know what money could do for me, quite honestly. You know, I don't want to have more staff. I don't want to scale in a way that is unprofitable, and so often the attempts to scale are unprofitable. Yeah, I don't want to necessarily have to work more than I work. I work about 4.5 days a week. I don't want to lose my work-life balance. So, I don't necessarily know what it could bring to the table. I've also been approached to sell the business, and at one point, I was toying with the idea. And now, I don't necessarily see why that would be in the cards for us at this point in time either.

Yeah, it's a great point. I love that you're talking about this. Switching gears a little bit, one topic you and we are passionate about is diversity and inclusion. How are you implementing that in your business, and how do you recommend we take practical steps to do the same?

Well, I am a Middle Eastern woman, child of immigrants, running my own business in the country music scene.

Yeah, where's your family from, Mitra?

They're from Iran. Yeah, so I am that, and I think the best thing that people can do is have a seat at the table, be willing to take meetings, recognize individuals who are different than you as your partners. When it comes to hiring, everyone's situation is different, and I don't want to comment on on who needs to be your next hire. For me, what I have done is hire women when I can, and also hire individuals whose resumes may not necessarily show that they are best aligned for the position, but their life experience does. Oh, that's such great advice, because I'm that candidate. Yeah, right, you know, I am that candidate. I And it has worked for me really well in my career. My employees have gone on to have great jobs and been able to grow their professional career like exponentially. So I think they learn a lot what to do and not to do here, and they take it with them. But diversity is really important, and diversity looks different in different situations. For me, diversity is me being at a table with a Nashville Record executive.

Yeah. That's what a beautiful comment. I love that. What's on your desk right now? Is there any project you're particularly excited about that you can share?

We are working on a collection with the Junk Gypsies, if you are familiar with them. Yeah. Okay. They're amazing. They're such a wild ruckus-like group of women, and I respect them so much. They have such— like, they're so specific about their vision. And they know themselves and their customer really well. They have phenomenal taste and they're just a pleasure to work with. They're so kind, they're generous. They open their doors to myself and had me come stay at their Wander Inn, which is on their property in Round Top, which was a lovely time during Antiques Week. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, they're just doing great work. They've partnered with really great brands like Pottery Barn, and they're very diligent about who they— doing the, the work on who they partner with and not just putting out product for the sake of product. So it's really flattering to be asked by them to collaborate, and I love the designs that we've been working on for them.

Yeah, I love that part of the country. You know, I'm a Texas boy, so I love that part of the country down there as well. Yeah, it really is. As a final question, one I like to ask our guests is this: you know, COVID, for all its calamity and heartache, has brought some of us unexpected gifts. So I like to ask, what gift has it brought you?

COVID has shown me that through tough times, I am the type of a good person who can show up and continue to do good work and continue to instill faith in my team that we are here for the long haul. I have a lot of grit and tenacity, and that's something I've known about myself for a long time. But situations like this show me that not only do I have those attributes, but that I can also go through these times with grace and kindness and not let my worst fears take over and interfere with me doing good work.

Here's what I've learned. Such an inspirational story. Daughter of Iranian immigrants from New York ends up in LA doing merchandise for this Western Americana scene, which is really merchandise for everyone. And it is so inspirational. What—

when I say that to you about your life story and what you're doing now, what do you I think there's no way I could have imagined that this is the way my life would go, but I am so glad that this is what I get to do every day.

That's awesome. Mitra, thank you for your time.

Thank you so much. This has been such a joy.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of SKU Cast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.skucast.com. Www.comandsq.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.