Episode 180: Adam Bluestein, author of "How Supreme-Style Merch Drops Took Over Corporate America"

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

One thing that was interesting, you know, the brands with the emotional connection that have led in branded merchandise are really these, um, brands that appeal to primitive instincts.

So like, remember when companies would practically beg you to front their branded gear? Show up at a conference and you'd come home loaded with swag that ended up padding the back of your closet. Open a bank account and you'd be prized with a branded blanket for the dog to sit on in the back seat. But now it seems the tables have turned. In a bizarre twist in the ever-evolving power dynamic between brands and consumers, people are now not only willing to adorn themselves in branded merch, they actually go to great lengths to seek it out and want to pay for it. That's a direct quote from our guest today, Adam Bluestein, whose voice you heard at the beginning of this episode. Adam is a journalist who writes for Fast Company, Marker, Men's Journal, and Proto. He writes about people and companies at the forefront of innovation in business and technology, life science and medicine, food and sustainability. The quote is from Adam's article titled "How Supreme Style Merch Drops Took Over Corporate America" in Marker, a publication from Media. It is one of the most insightful articles about branded merch I've ever read because it's written from the perspective of someone outside of our business who did a tremendous amount of research into the companies that use branded merch and why. I asked Adam if he'd join us to talk about the article plus the stories that didn't make it into the final piece. What I love most is how he creates fresh, evocative language that gets to the heart of how branded merch builds fanatical fans, creates emotional bonds, and elevates the brand experience. We have a link to the article in the show notes. I encourage you to share both the article and this episode with your team. Thanks to our friend Jeremy Picker at Amber Creative for bringing this article to our attention. And thanks again, Adam, for joining me for this conversation. You can learn about Adam's work at adambluestein.com. That's adambluestein.com. Quick note before we get to the episode, we launched a really cool new concept we're excited about. It's called SCaMmunity Meetups. We're taking live interviews featuring insightful talks by the most streetwise entrepreneurs, and we're mashing those up with a community hang and a micro-learning lab. Our next meetup is Wednesday, April 21st. We're going to talk about marketing. Bring your team. You can register at commonskew.com/communitymeetups. This episode is brought to you by Commonsku, the work from anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more or to begin your free trial now, visit commonskew.com. Now here's my chat with Adam. So Adam, can you encapsulate why you wrote the article and sort of give us a brief overview of it for those that haven't read it yet?

Sure. So this merch story really started, it was an idea that came from my editor, Danielle Sachs. At Marker, and we've been working on stories together for the last year and a half at Marker and before that at Ink Magazine back in the day. And she was really fascinated with seeing these crazy sort of branded merchandise out in the world. And the thing that originally caught her eye was a pair of, I think, you know, $18 or $20 fuzzy socks from a CBD drink companies. And her, you know, initial question was, you know, what's up with that and who's buying these things? And we really wanted to explore the question initially of what's in this for, for the businesses and, you know, kind of understanding the ROI on, on these kinds of things. And then as usual, she just gave me the time and the leeway to do a deep dive And I think I did more research on this story than almost anything I've ever done, honestly.

That's astounding for you to say because you've written about biobot analytics, you've written about anti-tuberculosis drugs, dairy farming, opioid addiction, and you just said you basically have done more research on this one than your previous articles. Yeah. I'm sure you walk into a topic, you know, with one opinion and you walk out with another. What was your opinion going into this and how did that change?

You know, I don't know that I had a strong opinion to start out on this one. I was just, I was interested. And so, you know, you mentioned I work on, my editor called it strategically random subjects, but I get bored easily. And so I like kind of coming fresh to a given area. And obviously I've been writing about business in general for, you know, for a long time, but this was new to me. And really the, the main, um, perspective I had on it was kind of as a parent of two teenagers. And so seeing their world, how they perceive the world and how they perceive brands and branded merchandise in the world was a really big thing informing my thinking.

Interesting.

Yeah.

I've used this phrase before, but we have said that the respectability of swag has grown, um, over the past years. And you probably saw that with the article.

Yeah.

Um, one of the big premises in your article was everyone's trying to mimic Supreme. And what did you mean by that?

Well, I think Supreme is the most obvious example of, you know, kind of what I generically call streetwear marketing, just the drop. I mean, just the fact that basically everyone, I guess, under age, what, 40s or 30-something understands what the drop is. Right. And so. Supreme has trained consumers to shop and to understand brands in this strange and passionate way and really like trained us to consume streetwear in this scarcity model. And so I think that that really is a big thing that marks a shift from, you know, kind of your Disney shirts and your Coca-Cola t-shirts to this world where like really every brand basically from the get-go, you know, if you're, if you're a DTC product brand, um, you're probably going to have some merch like almost from, from day one.

Yeah. What were you surprised by the most as you were writing this?

Well, um, it's a big business, you know, if you look at kind of more traditional licensing, I mean, you look at the numbers from some of these companies and actually the list of companies with huge licensing programs to me was kind of surprising. So looking at, you know, the top global licensing companies, there's some crazy stuff in there and it's not all the things that you would think. So just seeing how broad that was and then digging into some of the newer companies that are getting into this space, I don't know, you know, the traction of YouTube and TikTokers in this space was the thing that's— I mean, you look at those numbers and they're, um, you know, shocking, really.

Yeah, well, you mentioned that they've become the arch proselytizers of branded merch.

Yeah, so I mean, I kind of started to see as I was reporting these things falling into place, kind of like, you know, tumbling into place. So you had Supreme which really got people accustomed to this drop model of shopping and basically doing all the marketing online, right? Really doing no traditional marketing at all, like letting the hypebeasts themselves promote the drop. And then I think that the YouTubers first, and now really on TikTok, just really got Generation Z, or as my daughter just taught me, Zillennials, accustomed to the idea that like no brand was too small. So if you think about a YouTuber as being like a mini, you know, like one-person media company, basically. Yeah. You know, seeing how with nothing, right, no infrastructure or anything, you could launch not just a media brand, but a merch brand that's worth almost as much as, as your advertising, which is pretty remarkable. And I think that, um, any teenager, as I say in the story, you know, like knows when the pitch for the merch is going to come, you know, it's like smash the like button and check out the merch page, you know, and they can tell you the whole script.

Yeah. You uncovered several reasons why we do this and you used to turn a phrase that hinges an entire thought. You wrote that there's something more complicated going on beneath the surface and you talked about supply side changes. The drop, as you mentioned, plus the pandemic had something to do with this acceleration. What do you mean by those, those three things together?

Well, I think that the pandemic was really the last piece and the thing that, that took it to the next level, you know, completely. So, you know, look, everyone is sitting at home, everyone is looking for, um, something to relieve their boredom and to, uh, supply some kind of comfort Yeah, so everyone's shopping online all of a sudden, like 100% basically. You're looking at Instagram constantly, so you've got this captive audience that's ready for all the promotions you want to throw at them, and they're looking to just to be comforted, right? So like, it's just like it's part of baking, it's part of, um, Netflix, it's, it's all of the same kind of, um You know, the boredom economy I sort of stole from a— there was a New York Times writer who I first saw that, but we were looking for something to do and just like a little bit goofy. And so I think that some of the more like fun and silly merch worked just as a relief.

Yeah. Well, you also, you also pointed out, and I love the phrase you use, but this sense of belonging and this need for belonging was also accentuated during this time. But you used a phrase called a tribal signifier. I thought that was a brilliant phrase. Ways, because we can see that in the Peloton merch and other aspects as well.

Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, just like stepping back, you know, so when you look at really the, the— a lot of the origins of this come from music, right? So rock t-shirts and, you know, a band t-shirt or performer t-shirt is kind of just a really simple example of that, right? Like you see someone wearing a shirt of the band that you like And automatically, you know, you're making that connection, right? So for younger people, they see a brand as the same thing as a band in a way. And so making that connection in the real world, I think, you know, even in the pandemic becomes more important, right? Even with your mask on, I can see that you're wearing the t-shirt of this product or, you know, service that I really love too. And it's just, yeah, it's a way of connecting. It's always been a way of connecting, right? From your Grateful Dead t-shirt to your Peloton hoodie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love some of the stories you shared. The CEO and founder of Liquid Death was a great example. That was a, that was a, that's a water brand commented. They commented on the emotional connection of this and the quote that you have in the, in the article of brands core product as music, but they know that apparel is a huge part of building their audience loyalty. He said bands have multiple revenue streams and take every part seriously. That's our approach. What we're finding is that merchandise is no longer a sort of, oh, by the way, we have this too. It's front and center.

Absolutely. So you have multiple, multiple revenue streams. And so you had, you know, kind of rock, rock bands doing this maybe, maybe first. And then like, you know, hip hop artists have taken that next level and really, you know, are thinking about that from the get-go.

You had a great line too about that was someone that I think you were quoting someone put a sneaker on it.

Yeah.

What did that have to reference?

Yeah, so this was a guy who I was talking to off record, but was a marketing executive at a major shoe brand. So a person I know, and you know, sometimes when you do these stories, you've got to, I don't like to do off record, but people tell you more. Right. They tell you more. So I'm like, how does this all work? And, you know, so that was his thing, put a sneaker on it. But one, I guess one of the surprising or really fascinating things about this was how anchored this sort of streetwear merch moment is in the footwear market, you know? I'm sure, you know, you and your listeners are aware that sneakers are huge, that there's a huge resale market for sneakers. And it's a, it's a big, big multi-billion dollar economy. And sneakers are the gold standard of merch. So if a brand can connect through sneakers, then they're connecting to like everything that attaches to sneakers.

What are your thoughts on this fast food merchandise? I mean, the merch madness, as you called it in the article. What are your thoughts on this? I mean, because we're seeing now Kentucky Fried Chicken and McDonald's and all these brands suddenly releasing these amazing and collaborations with these other, you know, interesting bands. You'll take a big brand and an up-and-coming brand and they suddenly collab together on some merchandise. What was your thoughts as you were uncovering this?

Just, you know, amazement at how much of it there was. The more I dug, the more I found. So Taco Bell was early on this. Popeyes, had a big drop last year, sold out a run of basically staff uniforms, right, that they were selling as branded merchandise. You know, I don't know. I mean, I think talking to people, it seems like it was a way to connect and a unique way to connect through merchandise that you're not even getting through social media. So it's kind of easy to tune things out. But when you see that Travis Scott t-shirt, you know that Travis Scott t-shirt is out there. Like, that's really something that gets your attention. If you're a Gen Z or Zillennial who's tuned into that, like, wow, you know, a whole different way of connecting that they were missing. And the audience for that, it's for streetwear. Like what's really interesting about the audience is that, look, it's really multiethnic, right?

Yeah.

You're crossing over across race. Like it's pretty much like it's Black, it's white. It's obviously there's a huge Asian market abroad for streetwear. But for here, you know, McDonald's, you're connecting with these hard-to-reach young people, a lot of males. You know, it's a really unique opportunity.

You used another phrase I loved, amplification value. And that was a big— I think that was a big part of particularly these food brands. There's this amplifier that happens. I know the Travis Scott, after I read your article, actually went to go try and find the Travis Scott shirt. Here I'm in the business and I wanted to go find the Travis Scott t-shirt to buy for a friend. But the amplification value is a great phrase that you used. I think that we can share with our community and a lot of our customers because that's exactly what happened.

Yeah. So I think, I think that was an idea that came from Sam Ewen, who's, you know, kind of done a lot of great work on, you know, I guess what we used to call kind of guerrilla marketing, non-traditional marketing. And, uh, you know, when you're looking at the ROI on these things, it's not like McDonald's needs to make a profit on this merch drop necessarily, right? They're a huge company, right? Maybe they'll break even on it. But for them to, um, increase goodwill toward their brand even a little bit, it's just, it's an order of magnitude, you know, that makes a huge difference, you know, a 1% a couple of percent increase in trust in public perception of your brand translates into sales. And they saw that at McDonald's with this.

Yeah. Last quarter alone, Peloton sold 600,000 units of branded merch. In general, I think you cited this, global sales of licensed retail merch grew to $292 billion. And with Peloton, much like Nike and their greatness campaign, there's something about this merchandise. You actually said, Building community on the cheap was a phrase I think that you used. And what I love about that is there is an aspect of this branded merch, like with Nike and with Peloton, that sort of aspires to the greatest self within us and then builds this community. As you said, community building is huge with the merch. What else did surprise you in terms of the benefits of these brands doing this? Was there anything we're leaving out?

Yeah, so Peloton, I don't think a lot of this made it into the final story, but there's more on Peloton. And as you and your listeners may be aware, you know, they've made a lot of investment in their branded merchandise business in the past year. You know, they hired Robert Franklin, who was a former head of merch at Amazon, to come in as a senior VP of e-commerce. They're really focusing on doing sort of own-brand apparel, not to replace, but in addition to the high-profile collaborations that they've done. So they've got, you know, something like 24, 25 employees just working full-time on the merchandise business. I mean, they're full on on that. Another thing that didn't come in, I think was also cut from the story, was talking about Tesla. A little bit.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's kind of an interesting merch story or potential merch story there, which, which, you know, I can talk a little bit more about if we want to talk about kind of tech, which was a piece that, you know, I think Slack is part of that. But, you know, we can talk about—

Yeah, keep going on that. I'm curious what you think about how tech community actually uses this because I think that's, that's a great example of what Tesla has done with merchandise. What's fascinating is what Elon Musk, when the truck failed, he actually created a t-shirt to commemorate the failure. And that's an astonishing step for merchandise.

Right. So yeah, I think one thing that was interesting for me was just like, how do we define, like, I'm just no expert on promotional merchandise, right? But how do we define these different flavors of promotional merchandise? Yeah. Like there's traditional, you know, swag. So here's a bunch of free stuff that we're going to give away at the, you know, the meeting, the convention, right? And then there's stuff that people actually want to buy. So what's interesting is that tech— I had some crazy number, you know, the millions and millions of dollars that the tech industry spends on promotional giveaway merchandise, you know, and like good stuff, you know, Yeti coolers. Think about all the Patagonia vests. Branded Patagonia vests in Silicon Valley. And that's just stuff that's a pure marketing expense for them. So I asked, you know, I talked with a bunch of people about, you know, why hasn't tech moved into this model that all these other industries have seen where they say, look, we can also make a little money off of this. Like, why can't Apple have branded whatever, you know, clothing, accessories. It turns out actually that they did back in the day, like over 20 years ago. There's a cool catalog. You can see the Apple apparel line and accessories.

Interesting.

But right now, very few really tech companies have embraced the idea that, that they want to create consumer-facing merchandise for sale. So Tesla They're a car company, but they're really a tech company. Tech, right. They have really approached merchandise more in the way that these young, like, millennial and Zillennial DTC brands have, using it in a really provocative way, you know, which goes with Elon's personality, I think, you know. But, you know, they did these sexy shorts Right. You know, when it was basically these like satin red shorts that have sexy on the butt, right? Yeah, they cost $69.420, which was just like joke upon joke, you know, in the, in the Musk world. And it was really just a way of pissing off, like thumbing his nose at all these investors who were shorting the company. And right, he put these out when Tesla hit its all-time high in terms of its valuation. Right. So, and then he puts out, you know, a couple hundred dollar bottle of Tesla tequila. You know, it's like this stuff that's like very provocative. Yeah. And it's really, it's, and people talked about it. There were hundreds of thousands of media impressions from both of these things.

It's almost as if they're using merchandise as the new press release and making a statement. It's real statement making, especially when Elon uses as something.

Yeah, using, using as a press release. And just going back to McDonald's, I mean, wow, that Travis Scott stuff, you know, how much attention did they get for that? And at a time when, you know, frankly, the company was taking some heat for racial insensitivity and some issues within, within the company itself.

Yeah, it's interesting how big companies, like you just said, can change the conversation with merchandise. That's, that's something we don't talk about enough. Is there with the tech companies, do you think there's some hubris and ego involved with it so much so that, that they haven't transcended to that consumer? It's, it's more so about solely in the brand camp.

Yeah. Um, I think there's something about keeping it a truly insider thing, you know, that access to, you know, the Google cooler from the 2019 developers meeting needs to feel exclusive still. And so, yeah, I think there's a kind of a fear of going out there and there's, you know, there's a reputational risk, right, with any of these things. So with any brand extension, the thing that you make is going to reflect on your brand. So yeah, a t-shirt is pretty, pretty harmless, I guess. But when you get into other things, there's a risk that it's going to change the way people think of you. So if you do something— if you're Apple and you put out any piece of branded merchandise that's low quality, right? That's not the Apple brand. If it feels cheap at all or not well designed at all, that's so off mission for Apple. Yeah.

You said consumers have shown that they have limits, that their execution and originality matter. Is duplication of these tactics a success? I mean, thinking of of the Travis Scott versus J Balvin drop and then the Slack shoe drop fail, what did you discover were limits or lines that were being crossed?

Right, so after Travis Scott, soon after, you know, like within a month, McDonald's did a second drop with J Balvin, which was similarly ambitious. You know, I think dozens and dozens of SKUs, you know, a wide array of products, very, um, a different aesthetic, which may have something to do with it. It was very, um, almost like, you know, gaudy, which a lot of merch is, but this was particularly colorful, right? Which was, um, I think reflective of, you know, it was for his— he had an album called Colors, Colores, that was out. So it was paying homage to that. But I think, um, that, you know, landed, uh, you know, landed like a lead balloon, as someone said, um. With something else. And actually, uh, the merchandise never delivered, so there was, there was a whole other issue. Wow. There that happened afterwards. But there just wasn't the same excitement, you know. Travis Scott was a, uh, is kind of a uniquely popular personality, you know. And so also was very connected to the resale market. Yeah. People who buy on StockX know who Travis Scott is. And the audience for J Balvin was maybe a little bit different and not so tuned in to that resale market. Yeah. You know, and then we can talk about, you know, so Slack is an example of a tech company that did, you know, they wanted to put a sneaker on it, but it wasn't really tied to any particular event. So one thing that, that, you know, I note in the story, that's a characteristic of the best branded merchandise campaigns is that they're really part of a whole choreographed event. You know, it's around a thing. So a store opening, an anniversary, a new product launch, and I think that's where people have used it really effectively. I think the timing on Slack— so Slack came out with some sneakers that Cole Haan did, and in the Slack colors and the colors of the Slack logo. And, you know, they're pretty like harmless looking, you know, generic white kind of sneakers. And, you know, they're basically selling for a half, for, you know, 50% discount on resale sites now, which is not the way you want things to go. You know, which I think goes to some branding experts I talked to, you know, really noted that one of the keys to successful branded merchandise is that you have a brand where there's a real emotional connection.

Yeah.

And so like people have that with Tesla. People love Tesla, right? Right. They're passionate about it. People actually love Coca-Cola. People love their bands. I don't know that people love Slack.

Right. Right. That's a great point.

There's— are there, but you know.

Yeah. I love what you pointed out in the article is that a lot of folks will see these as tactics and they will duplicate these tactics. But there's so many other missing elements such as the timing or the celebration of anniversary, or in the case of building community, just the fact that maybe Slack doesn't have this tribalism that a lot of these other brands have.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one thing that was interesting, you know, the brands with the emotional connection that have led in branded merchandise are really these kind of brands that appeal to primitive instincts. So like, like energy, right? So you've got Coca-Cola, all your energy drinks, right? Red Bull have been huge pioneers in this. Alcohol, think of all the Budweiser, Corona t-shirts out there. And now, you know, one thing that was left out of my story is like the cannabis industry is all over branded merchandise. And I could talk about that forever because I had some really interesting conversations with people in that industry.

That's a great point, these primal instincts that we have, that there's something tapping into that. What did you discover with that regard, cannabis industry, and just how are they using merch different?

Yeah, so, you know, I mean, these are products, you know, slash substances that people really like.

Yeah.

They're passionate about their brand. So, you know, I talked with a really interesting small cultivation and company and brand in Southern California called Wonder Bread who are doing really interesting things with merchandise and their influencer program, right? So they do extremely limited drops of t-shirts, you know, hats, kind of the normal stuff, but nicely designed. Design is a big part of their brand. And, you know, hotel slippers, cool stuff. And they get these things in the hands of hip-hop artists who are one of their big influencers for the brand. These guys take pictures on Instagram of them wearing the slippers and the t-shirts. So they'll sell out a drop of like 100 or a couple of hundred of these t-shirts and get these influencers showing this stuff, showing the brand merchandise on Instagram, on these platforms. And it's really, it's, it builds, you know, it builds community again. And it's really an insider's club in the way that Supreme is, right? Like not everyone can get that stuff. This is like premium, right? So they're also offering, you know, a very high-end top, like the most expensive within its category and promoting that sort of air of exclusivity by, by having the merchandise be really exclusive too.

Yeah, that is very fascinating. Before we get to our last set of questions here, was there anything else that was left out of the article that you wanted to touch on or something that we missed?

I mean, I think, you know, just talking about just going back to tech for a minute, several people I spoke to talked about the potential for these brands to do a lot more. So when you're thinking about is branded merchandise just a marketing thing, or is it an experiment that's allowing you to test out an actual new line of business? And, um, that— I think that that's a really interesting space right now. So, you know, Peloton is— I would say they're doing that, you know. And I think people ask, do they want to be a competitor with Lululemon eventually, right? Why can't they have a whole line of branded clothing that's just as serious a business, right? And look at a brand like Tesla with their immense popularity, their visibility, you know, they could really launch a luxury, you know, a high-end sort of lifestyle brand of spin-out products. And I think that Elon Musk thinks is still too in this mindset of provoking with merchandise to think about making it that much of a serious business, but it certainly could be. I mean, you look at Ferrari and some of the European luxury carmakers, sports carmakers, they're collaborating with top streetwear brands and high fashion houses on merchandise right now. And you see that when Peloton has done that, doing some leather jackets when they still use leather, They've done really well and all that stuff has sold out.

I think it's really telling how much time you spent on this article because it's incredibly researched, a lot of depth, and you just got different perspectives. And what I love the most is that you got beneath the layers of intent and meaning and purpose and sort of the philosophy behind all of this as well. And just the meaning that it's imbued with. And I don't mean to speak just on behalf of a partial audience that this is what they sell. It's more uncovering the layers of why we buy what we buy.

Yeah, yeah. And what we started talking about was seeing how, um, how all these connections just, just kind of keep lining up, right? And yeah, something happened in, in people's mindset where we're just become really open to these weird brand propositions. You get a KFC, you know, KFC Crocs, right? Um, McDonald's nugget pillows, like, right, you know, so it's, it's easy to say like, look, we, we've jumped the shark on this stuff, but I don't think so. And most people I spoke with don't think so, you know, I mean, I think this is still the beginning of this stuff.

Yeah. Well, you're talking to an audience who agrees 100%. And speaking of someone, I've spent my career in this business. And so, um, I've watched just like we talked about about the respectability of swag just increased immensely. Um, there's lots to be concerned about. There's lots of sustainability issues and things that our industry is addressing. But, you know, as someone who has spent a lifetime in it, I have actually never seen a better time in terms of building brand affinity, making emotional connections, all of those great things that you highlighted in the article. Was there any dangers that you saw that we weighed into with this? I mean, was there any concerns that you had as you were reading it? Writing it? Excuse me.

Concerns. Hmm. I don't— I mean, for the most part, it seems like harmless fun.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I think obviously, you know, brands that just try to imitate the McDonald's Travis playbook are not going to be able to do it. You know, like simple imitation I don't think is going to work. And we talked earlier about how sort of the boredom economy and the mode of the pandemic influenced this. And so I think that we saw a lot of merchandise, as I pointed out, was really about comfort. So we saw a ton of blankets, a ton of like slippers, like really pajamas were super popular. So things for lounging around. So I'm interested to see next, how brands shift out of that into a different flavor of merchandise, maybe feels a little more active or has a different vibe.

Yeah, I would agree. We saw, of course, we saw from before, we saw a lot of these things, brand affinity, building community, all those aspects come to the surface. I think coming out of this pandemic, and there's going to be even a greater sense of tribalism, a greater sense of need for connection, a greater sense of belonging. And I think those things are just going to deepen. One of the things I learned from your article is that a lot of the larger companies have found swag and merchandise a great, if not playground, then a great place to take risks because they're taking a lot of risks. One of the comments that you wrote was quoting Rory Sutherland, whom I love, sometimes the opposite of a good idea can be a good idea. And then another way, said Ewan, the first person who said that making KFC Crocs was a good idea probably got some funny looks, but at the heart of so much marketing that breaks through, it's just the willingness to do it. So that's what I learned from your article was some of these brands this is actually a fairly conservative place for them to take risks that has a high return on value.

Absolutely. I mean, as you know, producing most merchandise in itself, like, is not generally a very expensive proposition, you know. So, you know, with the means of production that we have now, you can do custom printing really fast, you know, get some hoodies and shirts out there really fast. Try it out, try it again. You can iterate. So, you know, it is a real opportunity and you can do these small batches. So I think there's, there's an opportunity to do a lot of quick learning, which you see, you know, I mean, like Glossier, you know, was one of the first, but, but they've done a great job on going from having an initial sweatshirt that was ridiculously popular to having a whole glossy wear arm of the business.

Which maybe last question or two, was there a brand you fell in love with through this because of what they were doing with merch or that you got close to just going, that's really cool, what they're doing, one you're impressed the most by?

That's a good question. People are doing cool things all over the place. Glossier has certainly been really smart with combining their, their social media presence and leveraging that. With their store. The fast food brands, you know, Taco Bell has a tremendous online store. Yeah, maybe one of the most surprising to me was Arizona Iced Tea, not a new brand by any means, right, that some of us maybe thought was, you know, I don't know, like that was from way back, right? Kids are still into that, kids are still into that, and they They have a tremendous merchandise program which has really done the job, has replaced or took the place of a traditional advertising program for them. So they really spent— they spent no money really on traditional advertising and marketing, which has allowed them to keep, you know, a 99-cent price on their product and just keep putting this merch out in the world and people eat it up.

Yeah, it's fascinating. Adam, thanks for taking the time with us today and talking about the article. It was a joy to read. Uh, how many hours did you spend on this article? Can you say that? Or is that a lot?

It was something that sort of, uh, was around for a while, um, because I actually started it, um, before the election. Wow. So we— it got held and then we thought about it some more and I kept going back and looking again and finding more and more. So I honestly, um, over 100, 100.

I like to think that a lot of that is because it was fun too, but that was, that was a lot of hard work.

Yeah, I mean, I, I wouldn't have, uh, researched so hard if, if I didn't find it interesting and cool.

Yeah, for sure. Well, Adam, thanks again, man. This has been great. Thanks for taking the time, and we're honored that you joined us today.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SKU Cast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.

Mm-hmm.