Episode 181: Creating a Culture of Belonging | Johanna Gottlieb, Axis Promotions

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew. Sometimes between the heartbreaking tragedies in the news and the justifiable rage against injustices, we opt to step back and choose silence. Not because we don't care, but because we feel paralyzed by the enormity of it all. Not because we are insensitive or disagree, but as business owners, we're uncertain about what to do. We're doing everything we can to keep our clients happy so that we can keep our businesses afloat, so that we can provide a safe and secure environment for our employees to thrive. But we want to do more. We want to move beyond rhetoric and beyond the veneer of simply saying the right things to putting our desire into action. And in today's episode, that's exactly what I talk with Johanna Gottlieb about—what we can do in our own businesses, in our own community, to affect change. Many of you know Johanna Gottlieb. She's the VP of Sales at Axis Promotions, a New Yorker at heart, lives in Chicago with her husband and her daughters Olivia Bella and Lola Grace. Her mom was born in Cuba and her dad was born in Argentina. Over 15 years ago, Johanna began at Axis as an associate account manager. With her amazing zeal and energy, she rose to her current role as VP of Sales Midwest. Named ASI's Hot List in 2017, Johanna's optimistic worldview and love of her work has earned her the reputation of someone whom we all want as a spokesperson for the promo industry. Despite her incredibly busy work at Axis, Johanna makes her time to chair two teams that are important to her values: Promo Kitchen, and most recently, chair of PPAI's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Task Force. But before we get into that conversation, I want to tell you about a webinar we're doing in collaboration with our wonderful friends at Gemline on how to build a brand with purpose., and it's an exclusive interview with MIR founder Brian Pappe. Now, when Brian founded MIR, he knew he wanted to build more than another drinkware company. Today, MIR has given over $1 million toward clean water, healthy environment, and stronger community initiatives. In this interview, we'll explore with Brian what it takes to build a brand with purpose, how key decisions help drive their mission and improve communities, and how we can build purpose-driven brands through our own passionate initiatives. Now, I know some of you have heard Brian speak at SKUCon before, but I assure you, after having chatted with him, they have been incredibly busy over the past year transforming their approach as a leadership team. And during the interview, we'll explore that too. What an incredibly vulnerable and inspirational journey they've been on over the past year. The interview will take place on April 29th from 12 to 1 ET. You can register at commonskew.com/gemlinewebinar. This episode is brought to you by Commonsku. The work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more or to begin your free trial now, visit commonskew.com. Now here's my conversation with Johanna and a disclaimer, or more like an encouragement. As I mentioned before, sometimes the topic is so big we're paralyzed by what to do. The first thing we can do is simply slow down from our fast-paced deadline-driven world and listen to each other's stories. The more we understand each other's heritage, where we're from, and how that made us who we are, the more we'll make room at the table and honor every perspective. That's why I asked Joanna to the SkewCast to first simply share her story. Here's Jo. Jo, your mom was born in Cuba. Your father was born in Argentina. Tell us about your family story. Sure.

So yeah, my name is Johanna Gottlieb, and anyone that meets me through work or any channels probably assume I'm a nice or not so nice Jewish girl from New York. I certainly don't look traditionally Hispanic. I probably look more Italian. So my whole life, people have sort of just assumed my identity. And now that my last name is Gottlieb, people don't really understand or know that my mom was born in Cuba and my dad was born in Argentina. And that's something I'm really proud of. It's a really heavy week for me and a special week. So I'm glad I'm doing this because it's April 8th today. And in 3 days, my mom's birthday is April 11th, and she would have been 70 this year. She passed almost 3 years ago. So I'm sort of glad we're doing this and I'm able to speak about her. Yeah. She was born in a city in Cuba called Holguín, and she came to the US in 1970. On what was called a flight of libertad, a freedom flight. She came with her mother and her brother. They went to Florida and they made their way to New York City to start a life. My father was born in a small city outside Mendoza, Argentina, and my father is still around. He turned 75 this year. He came to the US in 1970 as well, and he landed in New York City. He came here with full intentions to go back. He had different plans and life had different plans for him. And he met my mother in New York City and they fell in love. And I want to take a second here to tell anyone listening that because my father is alive, thankfully, we recently, we meaning my family and I, my sisters and I, took the time to sit down with him and sort of interview him. So about 2 years, 2 years ago, we sat with him and a microphone and an iPhone, and we asked him a lot of questions about his past and his growing up, and a lot of questions about my mother and how they met. And I'm really glad I did that, and I suggest anyone that hasn't done that with any members that are older in their family to sit down and do that because the stories that you'll learn there are something you'll never get back. And unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to do that with my mother, and I have a lot of questions for her. But it was really a beautiful and cathartic experience. And I wanted to know a lot about how he met my mother and what she was like when she was younger and stuff. So it was really interesting to learn about their story in New York City. Through that session, I learned a lot about his childhood as well. And I think the grit I know about him comes a lot from his childhood. He grew up with 3 brothers and a sister, and his mom passed when he was very young. And so a lot of power, again, in the stories that I learned about my father and his growing up and his upbringing. Which certainly wasn't like mine. As my parents courted and dated, they settled down and they bought a home on Long Island, New York, which is where I was raised. They had a daughter named Ingrid, who was my older sister, and then 5 and a half years later, they had twin girls, me and my twin sister, who are identical. They had a proud home on Long Island, and we had a pretty normal upbringing for, I would say. My dad was in construction. He left really early every single day to drive through Queens and the Bronx and Westchester for jobs all over. And I can remember being little and hearing his sound of his really big van coming down the street at night, and I would run to the door to greet him. He smelled like spackle and paint, and I just loved the big hugs I would get when he came home after a long day work. He would try to be home to have dinner with us, and my mom was just sort of always there. She was always around for us, probably because my father was working so much. She was definitely a stay-at-home mom, and as I got a little older, she started to do part-time work in cleaning houses. And she took great pride in cleaning houses. She loved it. She loved the families that she worked for. You know, I know I love meeting and connecting with people. I can imagine she loved that too. And a lot of times I would tag along with her and I'd help her, or I would just be given ice cream to patiently wait, and she would clean these homes with great pride. She wouldn't cut corners. I remember wanting to like hurry up so we could go home, but she made sure everything was done perfectly. She took a lot of pride in that. And she showed up, you know, she did the work. It wasn't an easy job. It was tiring, but she did it, and she did it with a lot of respect. Yeah. Now, this is the early '80s, and being Hispanic in the early '80s was certainly not as common as it is today. And, you know, I think being a kid growing up, you want to fit in with everyone else, and everyone else around me wasn't Cuban, wasn't Argentinian, wasn't Hispanic in any way, shape, or form. I went to a high school with about 110 people. Everyone looked the same and I wanted to as well. And I remember that distinctly. My sister, my older sister, she sort of helped my parents learn English. They came and they learned English on their own and she helped them a lot. And when my sister went to school for the first time, she actually spoke Spanish more than she spoke English, which again was not as normal as it is today. So that was something that was a real staple for her. I did learn English while learning Spanish, and my parents made sure that we kept up in our Spanish skills. And we had tutors for teaching and learning and reading and writing it because it was very important to both of them. And I'm very grateful they kept that in me. And as I got older, my mom, she took a job in a home taking care of mentally disabled adults as a cook for them. My father continued in construction and worked long hours every day and worked very hard for us. My mother loved the work in the home and she took each client in as sort of her own son or daughter. And I would remember going to see her at work and, you know, it's a very challenging job. She didn't look at any of her clients differently. She treated them as she would treat us. She was empathetic and compassionate and she filled their days with yummy food and big smiles. She was always getting in trouble with the nutritionist on staff for overfeeding them. My dad worked construction still and he never wavered. He was consistent. He was a hard worker, but he managed to always be there for softball and volleyball and track games. And I'll tell you, I'll be honest, I wasn't a great athlete. My sister and I weren't great athletes, but he was always there and showed up as my mom did because he would tell us what didn't matter how we played. It was that we tried and that we showed up. And that was what he was proud of. And that's something I still take away from him. I remember after my first marathon, he sort of pulled me aside and said, "I'm not proud of you for finishing or for doing it. It's for getting up and trying and doing it and showing up." And he was really proud of us for that. I think my takeaways from them are sort of showing up, gratitude for what they could provide for us, and gratitude for what they could provide each other and the family that we built and the community that we became part of. We had an amazing community growing up, amazing friends that it couldn't have been easy for them as immigrants who didn't know the language to meet friends, They were both— we still talk to our neighbors. They built beautiful relationships that really taught me about the power of relationships.

Is that a part of what you've learned from your family and your heritage that drives you today?

I think the takeaway would be showing up. I mean, my mom had cancer and passed of cancer. And even in her final months, I remember taking her to Sloan Kettering and pulling aside her doctor one day and saying, 'Please tell me at what point you stop treating the patient. Please tell me. I need to know. I need to know. I don't want to be surprised.' The doctor saying, 'When a patient shows up and tells us they want to get treatment, we will do everything we can to get them treatment.' And my mom showed up till the end. My dad's still showing up, dude. Like, he has so many grandchildren that he shows up for. The pandemic has been hard on everyone, but we FaceTime, we stay in touch, and he shows up. And they're fighters, man. They worked really, really hard to give us what they could give us. My dad's really honest and humble. My mom was big personality, just like me, loud, wanted to be the one being listened to. But they were proud of us and they're still proud of us for everything that they could give us. So I think the takeaway for me was hard work and showing up. Yeah.

Before we move on to the next topic, Joe, is there anything else about your family you wanted to talk about?

I think something that people comment about a lot is the power of my sisters and I. My parents ended up divorcing as I went into college. And I'll save that for therapy. But what I heard most when my mom was sick was how proud she was of my sisters and I for how much we took care of her to the end. And I think those are things you can't teach. My sisters and I are so close. We talk all day, every day. We see each other as often as we can. Our children are incredibly close. I think what I'm most proud of with them is how they encouraged us to be united and be there for each other. I remember Ingrid was 5 and a half years older, her helping teach me to ride a bike and her looking out for us. And for sort of guiding us. My parents were certainly around and helped with that, but we just always looked out for each other and we still do. And I think I remember so distinctly after my mom passed, like friends reaching out and saying, your mom is so proud of you. And still just how we're so united. I am really grateful that they taught us how important that sibling relationship was.

Yeah, it's beautiful. Joe, you're the chair of the new PPAI DEI Task Force. Help us understand what that is.

And what that means? Absolutely. I am the new chair of this task force, which is about 3 months in now. I think this really stemmed where, as many of you know, Julie Kwon helped write the diversity playbook for our industry last year. And when the Black Lives Matter movement got really loud and strong, I think a lot of people are in the industry reached out to PPAI about what we could be doing and if any groups had been formed. I know I was sort of knocking on her door a lot and asking if there was any sort of committee and seeing if I could be involved. I'm sure many others were as well. Julie ended up leaving PPAI and Maurice and Kathleen Brower took over. Maurice Norris and Kathleen Brower. And they formed this committee with myself and a few fellow distributors and suppliers and a diverse group. And we're still finding our footing. It's about 3 months in. And we are here to expand diversity, equity, inclusion throughout the industry by creating education and networking opportunities. There's a lot of topics around this, and we just want to increase the visibility of underrepresented groups. We want industry leaders to listen to any webinars they can or any sort of content that we're putting out to help them in unbiased business practices.

How can the task force help me in my business?

We're hoping to offer solutions and helping to amplify voices that will bring others aware, you know, whether it's being on Women's History Month and highlighting anyone in our industry, which we did a couple of weeks ago, or talking about diverse businesses and practices and how is that profitable. You know, Cathy Chang talks about this a lot. She talks about the profitability and the bottom line dollar. And the reality is we are in sales. So it's important to think about how diversity can affect your bottom line. Sure. Your bottom line is your business.

Joe, tell me your perspective on the difference between diversity, equity, and inclusion.

So for me, these are— this is a word that's been used a lot, this term, this last few months. And I'm actually hearing more DEIB, so diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Yeah. But diversity is a range of different, not just how you look and who you are, but different social, ethnic background, economic background, gender, sexual orientation. Diversity is so much more than black and white. You can think about veterans, disabled. There are many underrepresented people in our industry and in this world. And that's, for me, what diversity is about.

I love the emphasis on belonging. Yeah. It's almost like a summation of the other 3. With diversity comes equity, inclusion, and ultimately belonging.

Feels good to say that, right?

Yeah, it really does because it elevates the conversation from, I think, a veneer of political discussion into is something that we can wrap our arms around, that I can actually activate in my business, belonging. That's something that all of us can do. We know the industry's challenge with diversity. I think we're all fairly aware of that. Feel free to speak to that, but we do have a pretty pronounced challenge with this. What positive impact are we making? Are you seeing us making strides in this?

You know, I think last year, after the passing of George Floyd, I should say the killing of George Floyd, but after last year when the Black Lives Matter movement got very loud, very fast, what I saw particularly on social was a lot of younger people really using social as a wonderful platform to talk and to share and to listen and to share resources and to learn. And I've been floored by how many younger people are doing a really wonderful job of not saying, this is something I care about today and tomorrow, this is something that We demand change, we want change. And I, for many months, I saw a lot of hope. I saw and I see a lot of hope and I feel really good about that, not just in our industry, but in, in the country lately, I'm realizing how much longer change will— change is not as close as I think it would be. It will be. I was— this came up because I was on a webinar with someone and they talked about how much work we need to do. And I said, Do you really think my 6-year-old daughter is not going to see the change that I think she's going to see? And the answer was no. I think we need to work really hard and thoughtfully to make positive changes for the youth of America today. I think we are making changes and people are listening. And again, I think inherently people want to learn, but I think we have a long way to go. Yeah.

I want to speak as the voice of a business owner, you know, of a small business. So let's say I'm a distributor. I have 10 employees. I'm doing everything I can to keep my business profitable. As you said, we're in the sales business. I see the issues in our industry around diversity, but my concern is not the industry at large, to be honest. It's my small world and my team and my clients. I don't care as much about the industry, so to speak, because that's like this amorphous non-entity. It's like something I can't really get my arms around, but I know, and I'm glad that there are people who do care about the industry. I care about making an impact in my world. Like I'm conscientious and very concerned about it. And I realize I need to do more and I can do more. Where do we start? Is it— does it start with hiring? How can I hire in a way that attracts a more diverse community to my business?

First of all, I think you have a really good point. I think a lot of people, their heads are down, their heads are buried. Businesses are opening back up and people are seeing— starting to see an uptick in swag and merch and promo, and thankfully people are getting busy again. I keep on saying I think people inherently care and people want to do good, but people are also really busy. It's almost like when you're on a committee and you need someone to raise their hand and you don't want to pick on someone and you think, well, someone else is going to raise their hand, I won't. That's sort of how it feels in the diversity, equity, inclusion conversation lately. Well, someone else is going to do the work. I don't need to. I don't think that's an answer anymore. I think you need to get uncomfortable. You need to get uncomfortable in some way, shape, or form. Maybe it's not a podcast. Maybe you're not leading webinar. Maybe that's not— you're not that person, but maybe you're behind the scenes reading things, sharing. Maybe you're reaching out. To Cathy Chang after her podcast on anti-Asian that we did with Promo Kitchen and saying, I see you and I heard what you said and I can't help you in this moment, but I do see you and I heard what you said. Yeah. I think all of those small moments are victories, right? Yeah. I think so much in social, especially, which was where we're getting most of our content right now anyways, we call them lurkers, right? You'll be doing something, you'll be doing the work, you'll be putting out your blogs, Bobby, as you do. And months down the road, someone will say, I love what you write. I love your, your words, your passion, the way you deliver, and you don't know this person's name. They've never commented, they've never engaged, you've never heard from them before in your life, and here you are making an impact. People may not wanna put themselves out there and share and like and say, I saw you, but maybe side message Bobby. You know, if you're not open to doing it, say, Bobby, I love the work you're doing. You're doing a great job. Go to Kathy, go to people that are sharing their stories, ask the stories. You and I talked a few weeks ago about your Indian heritage and hearing stories about other people that you work with. Why aren't we asking those stories? Why aren't we doing a roundtable within our own organizations?

That's a great point. Yeah.

We do Zooms all the time and happy hours. Maybe we do a happy hour about what's your story? What's your story about your immigrant parents that came here and raised 3 daughters? Yeah.

And Joe, I deliberately started this episode this way. I wanted to know your heritage. I think we have to pause and respect this is a part of the conversation we have to have is that we have to pause and respect. And in order to respect each other's heritage and to respect diversity, we have to understand and know. I know you referenced my Native American heritage. So I'm both Choctaw and Chickasaw Indian. And I got to thinking about this when I was a distributor with Robin. You know, we're in Oklahoma. There's a lot of obviously Indian population in Oklahoma and in my own company. I started looking back and realizing, you know, I think it's something we sort of took for granted. We— what I mean by that is we took for granted the unique culture in which we lived in this way. And here's what I mean. When we would recruit and go to hire folks, we would go to the traditional sources. You know, you'd go to LinkedIn, you'd go post on a job board, you would, you would go to various places that you normally go to. Well, when you have diversity on your radar, And when you're thinking equity and inclusion and belonging, and you realize that you need to do more, part of that doing more is just shifting our focus a little bit. So for example, what I could have done and would do now is I would post that next job possibly through the Chickasaw Nation and the Choctaw Nation tribes that I'm a part of. I'm a tribal member of the Chickasaw Nation, one of the largest Indian nations. And that's what I mean by what can we do at home, like under our own roofs, so to speak, virtually, there are probably things that we can do that would widen our focus a little bit. Yeah.

Thinking about, you mentioned how you can build your own culture, right? Talking about how you can inherently create a diverse culture. And one of the advantages of the pandemic for a lot of people is hiring right now. Thankfully, some people are getting back to hiring, which is great to hear and exciting. Right. And you know what's really exciting about that? We've learned we can do this remotely. You know, many people were doing the remote work anyway, but we've learned the talent doesn't need to be sitting next to me in Illinois. If the best talent is out there and the best talent is diverse and out there in another city, it can work. Yeah. So I think in hiring practicing, we need to look a little bit more at better ways to think about working remotely and better onboarding programs for remote work. Yeah. Especially if we're trying to build an inclusive inclusive workforce that feels like they're part of the team when they're in other states. That can be a challenge for a lot of people. Yeah.

You know, I saw this impact. I have Hispanic heritage as well. My great-grandmother couldn't speak a word of English, and I grew up for a season with my grandmother, and that culture I didn't carry with me, like many of us probably. My point in bringing this up is that when I, I look back We lost a client once who was the Hispanic Association, and the reason why we lost them— to my shame— the reason why we lost them is because we didn't have a bilingual-speaking employee. We didn't have a salesperson in a role that could work with the Hispanic Association. And I look back now and realize that what I really missed— and this is something I think Catherine's really good at with Commonsku— is that the reason why diversity is so important is so that we can bring diversity of perspective and it enriches our world. And I don't just mean by keeping a client or landing a client, but it enriches our world. And had I taken more proactive steps, who knows what the shape of my business might have looked like?

Yeah.

How can we move beyond? I know one of the challenges we have, you know, again, I'm back to thinking like that business owner, small business. How can I move beyond just celebrating diversity to actually creating a company where diversity of thought is the very fabric of our business? You know, how do I do it in a way that makes really a deep impact? Are there any other practical tips you can share?

I think, you know, as we call you again, the king of storytelling, hearing and listening to the stories within your own current stories. You might think you know your employees, but maybe you don't. Listen to what those stories are. Go deeper. You know, empower them, listen to their voices. That's amplifying voices does not always mean diverse voices. You have diversity within your own industry, diversity of thought and diversity of perspective. Listen to your current employees' voices and hear their stories. Especially if they're a little less willing to share. You certainly don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable or that they shouldn't and can't share things. But I think that's where the real beauty of this is, like when you push someone out of their comfort zone. We recently pushed someone out of their comfort zone through some DEI work and she's like, seeing her find her footing has been amazing and so rewarding. And she said, I'm so glad I'm sharing, it's helping me learn. And I think if you can do it without making someone uncomfortable and make sure they know it's a safe place, Just be their ally, help amplify their voice. Start small, start there, and other people will want to share as well. And it just creates deeper connections. You're going to retain talent that way. You're going to build loyalty. You know, you're going to— when I know your story, I'm probably more likely to stick with you. You're going to build some loyalty right there. You're going to help empower your employees and help them engage with each other, right? You don't need— Bobby, you don't have to be in the room for them to talk. Engage them to talk with each other, ask side questions when Bobby's not around. Right. Yeah.

You know, one of the things too, I think there are companies that choose to remain silent on this issue because they are concerned, right? It can be a little bit of a landmine. They don't know what to say or where to go or what to do. One thing I want to encourage folks to do, if you haven't done it yet, is to go to the ppi.org website and download the Diversity Playbook just as a great starter point. The other thing that I'm, I'm reminded of is that I do think we have to give a voice to this topic, not because of cultural pressure. And here's what I mean. I mean, because I really truly believe that diverse opinions are what really shapes a beautiful business, and it actually can build a business faster and more profitably. So speaking from a pure capitalist standpoint, it's just smart business. But I remember a chaplain telling me one time when we were, we were donating to a cause that we really believed in. It was a cause we really really thought was special. It was for kids with cancer, and it was a particular unique homegrown organization that affected folks just within our state. And we were doing this giving and doing projects for the association. And the chaplain, Danny, said to me one time, he said, Bobby, how come you're not talking about this? I said, Danny, we don't, we don't want to talk about it. Like, we just want to do it. And he said, yeah, but you need to be more vocal because when you're more vocal, other organizations are going to hear that and be inspired by that too.

What do you think of that, Joe? I, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think again, in recent months, it's more important than ever. I think in terms of like Google's hiring too, the reality is for myself, if I was a candidate right now and— yeah, no, Larry, I'm not looking. But if I was a candidate right now and I was looking, I probably wouldn't look at your website. I would be looking at your social. I would be sort of thinking about your Instagram and what you're putting out there. And so, yeah, it's one thing to put a blackout square for Blackout Tuesday. What, what else are you doing? Are you, what are you backing up? Are you, again, am I seeing that you're amplifying voices within your own team on Instagram? Are you sharing resources? Are you talking about new things? And social is just such an easy way to show your culture and what you're doing, but more importantly, showing what you're not doing.

Yeah, Joe, thank you for joining us today. I'm just glad we got a chance to talk about this, and I'm really looking forward to what you and the committee are doing. Kudos to you guys for putting in that kind of work. I know it's a busy, busy time, and this is such an important topic. So thank you guys. Thank you.

And just my closing words is I'm really glad that you asked me to do this with you. I am not the spokesperson for this. I have so much to learn, and we have So many voices in our industry to learn from. I think you just got to put your ear to the ground and see who's talking. Just shout out to Promo Kitchen, who's put some amazing content around diversity in the last few months. And we are committed to continue doing that. This is not something we're doing for this year. We're committing to growing our board to look like a board that does not look like we currently do. And keep an eye out for the folks that are doing that. Look for who's speaking, you know, check out webinars that you may not have been checking out and just keep putting the work in and hopefully we can keep chipping at this. Appreciate you so much. Sure, thank you.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkewCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SkewCast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commskew.com. Com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.