Episode 194: Media Convergence with Chip, Sean, and Mike from Promo Marketing

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

What we're seeing now is this is branded merchandise that people are paying for and going out of their way to buy, and brands are realizing that they have fan bases or audiences who are literally paying to advertise their product. So if you're a brand, you know, this is, this is a dream scenario for you. You know, before we might have seen this with bands or artists or entertainment properties, but now it's like people are going out of their way to wear a McDonald's t-shirt because there was a merchandise drop or something.

That's Shawn Norris, editor-in-chief at Promo Marketing Magazine. Today I'm joined by Shawn along with his colleagues Mike Bloom, publisher and brand director, and Chip Danby, executive vice president. Promo Marketing and their parent company, NabcoMedia, they're at a really interesting crossroad of manufacturers, makers, and distributors and more, involving all types of media. Moreover, they, like us, keep an eye on trends happening in the industry, and they have a keen eye for consumer trends as well. Today we talk about cross-channel selling, the evolution of the distributor from sourcing house to strategist, and what's happened positively in major media outlets when it comes to the perspective of promotional products. Before we get to our chat today, we launched the schedule and speaker lineup for SKU Camp. SKU Camp will be held September 27th through the 30th. It is sold out. However, you can still sign up for our waitlist in case there are any cancellations. Just hop over to skucamp.com. We're thrilled to announce an amazing group of speakers at SKU Camp, including Jeremy Lott with SanMar, CJ Schmidt with HIT Promotional Products, Chris Anderson with Hub Promotional Group, Sarah Whitaker, Williams Advertising, Sean Mooney, Show Pony, Alex Weir with Weir Stewart, John Vo with Woopla, Dale Denham with PPAI, Dan Pantano with Alpha Broader, Claudia St. John with Affinity HR Group, and that's just about half the list. Again, if you want to see the whole lineup, and sign up on our waitlist, visit skucamp.com. This episode is brought to you by Commonsku, the work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more or to begin your free trial now, visit commonsku.com. Now here's my chat with Chip, Mike, and Sean from Promo Marketing.

Mike, words like media convergence, omnichannel, all these represent some really big shifts in consumer markets, but in our industry, we're kind of sort of sitting at this really fascinating crossroads, and that we're seeing our own convergence of media, where once distributors and maybe manufacturers were defined by either print or promo, even categories like signage or forms, they no longer really have product-specific distinctions. In some ways, we're sort of becoming product agnostic, just a lot of organizations are. Your parent company, NabcoMedia, is at the center of this convergence because you serve print, promo, and distributor/manufacture. Have you seen faster adoption of cross-channel from distributors and manufacturers?

Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, we're at a time right now where end buyers are getting a little bit more sophisticated with brand development and looking to create a unique experience for their customers. So if you want to be that full solution distributor, you don't want to appear as a one-trick pony. So convergence has been happening in the market for a little while, whether it was printers that are— or print distributors adding promo to the line, or promo distributors adding apparel decoration equipment, or partnering with screen printers or suppliers and distributors offering both custom kitting solutions.

Those are—

that got in earlier, already ahead of the game.

Yeah, so we've seen this for a while now. For those of us that have been in the industry for a while, you saw especially the print companies, uh, when print sort of imploded, you saw about 10 years ago, um, a lot of the print folks getting into the promotional side of the business. But now what I'm seeing is sort of more of a quick adoption. People don't pause as much about do I sell this or do I not? It's more about serving clients. So what categories are we cross-selling now that we didn't even fathom before?

Some of them aren't really necessarily new, but I mean, just with the swing in swag kits and the interest in that lately, I mean, I'd say packaging in general has become a really big growth spot these days. So, you know, with the way brands are using kits in really unique and effective ways to appeal to their target audiences, the packaging really has to be the centerpiece of the promotion. So like a great example of this is Nike and Xbox's collaboration with the Space Jam 2 kit. So our digital content editor, Brendan Menapace, who's really awesome at highlighting these brands that use print and promo really effectively in creative ways, right? He just published a story about this that I hope the listeners can check out if they haven't already. But essentially what they did, Xbox and Nike, is they selected products that fit the theme of the movie. The packaging was created to make it look like it was a locker, and the kits were then sent to specific social media influencers to create buzz for the movie's premiere. So Brendan pointed out in the article that some of the products might have been specifically curated for each recipient, but at the end of the day, between the swag kit and the use of the swag kit in a social media campaign is like what I think is the perfect summary of what convergence can do to this market.

Yeah, it's a great point. Sean, anything to add to that?

Yeah, and Mike, you know, to your point about packaging especially, you know, some of it was necessitated by everything over the last year, you know, with the pandemic, and distributors needed to turn to kitting and things like that to keep get the sales up and whatnot. But I think there was this light bulb moment for a lot of distributors who realized like, hey, I can add a ton of value and upsell with these solutions that are— they're already right there and readily available to me, and they're just kind of adjacent to what I'm doing. Yeah, but you know, there's levels to it, right? It's like a good, better, best kind of thing. You know, let's say you have a customer who wants promotional products for one of these kits. Level 1 is maybe you get them the branded merchandise that they need, and then they figure out the distribution. They get the boxes elsewhere, they ship it themselves. You know, that's your good solution. Level 2 is you get them the branded merchandise, you kit it for them, you handle the distribution. You know, that's, that's pretty good. That's your better option. But then level 3 is like you do all that, plus you come up with this great full-color decoration on the box itself. You add printed materials inside that help tell this story better and you make it this complete marketing solution. So you took what could have been this really basic concept that gets the job done and you elevated it into something that's just levels above that. And we just featured Paul Keely. I think he's King Print and Promo, he's the owner. We had him in the magazine in one of our columns and he had this quote that I thought was beautiful. It summed this up in such a great way. But he said, here's the quote, it can be hard to tell a nuanced and moving story in the typically small imprint area of a promotional product. "And a printed piece is a great vehicle for the story, but doesn't have the emotional impact or staying power of a promotional gift. Together, our customer stories come together, come to life, sorry, in a uniquely compelling way." So, you know, that kidding example is kind of just scratching the surface of what print and packaging can do, but I think it really shows you how nicely this fits in with the promotional products ecosystem and how you can add different printed products to help customers tell that complete story.

Yeah, I love how you delineated to the different levels. There could even be a level 4 here that we're seeing that emerged last year where You as a solution provider, you've done level 1, 2, and 3, and now you're proactively approaching clients with strategic ideas on how they can use these kinds of products. Where I see we're seeing this evolution, I think, in people as sourcing agents only versus solution providers that are sort of sitting at the front end. So I think for the first time, we're seeing a lot of folks sitting at the table with decision makers on strategy, whereas in the past, it's always just been sourcing, I think.

Right, and it allows distributors to play a more active role in their clients' projects, and that provides even more value from a distributor standpoint if you can be that partner. I mean, that's the ultimate value you can provide.

Yeah.

Since you guys are sitting at an interesting crosswords where you're seeing this cross-selling happen through different types of distributor partners, not just promo partners, but print partners and manufacturers, is this signaling something else with the buyer? So I'm thinking of the buyer that used to also think in category-specific areas and now they don't. It seems like now they're just thinking in terms of their marketing partners in a general sense. Are you sensing that? Is that what's driving that?

I mean, if they offer the solutions or at least are listening to what they're trying to say at the end of the day, and if they can be that provider that can do everything too, that's the way you can really identify that.

To add to that, maybe it has something to do with the buyers of these products are getting younger and they're more attuned to this kind of omnichannel approach. That's just normal to a lot of these buyers now, where as before, in the past, it was With older buyers, maybe they're fixated on one approach. Maybe they're just big into print and that's the thing they've always known, and it's harder for them to branch out and see the possibilities from some of these other channels. I think that plays a big part in it.

Yeah, and I think you're right. I also think the same thing is happening on the other side of the table with distributors and manufacturers. The younger generation doesn't delineate as much themselves either, which is, I think, why we're seeing less of an obstacle with folks embracing cross-channel selling because they just think in terms of, of branded merchandise as a whole. For those that are reluctant to cross-sell into other categories, do you guys have some advice for being open to embracing some of this other media?

Listen to your customers at the end of the day. If you can be able to provide those solutions for them already based on the knowledge of what you're doing right now, but also embrace some of these newer things that you, that you can bring to the table, whether it is the printing, whether it's the packaging and all these other outlets, or even if you don't do that, you can still at least rely on some of these partners on there too. So. But also just keep an eye out for what other brands are doing and be able to try to present that as a case study to use it for this other brand to use for their own experiences.

Yeah, I love that idea too. I think often we get caught up in doing some project for a client and everything is so crazy and chaotic and we're just happy to move on to the next fire that we forget to celebrate and cross-sell into our other clients with those projects.

You know, if you're really good at selling promotional products, you can absolutely just continue specializing in that. You know, you can make it as just a promotional products distributor if you're providing that top-shelf service and creative solutions. And like, As we said, you're a partner to your clients and you can grow that way. But what we're seeing, I think, is that shift in buying habits and whether we call it the Amazon effect or whatever, where more and more you've got buyers that want things to be as easy as possible. That creates opportunities for distributors if they're willing to learn and expand into some of these other print categories. Let's say you've got one of your clients is like a potato chip brand or something. And you provide all the branded merchandise, maybe you run their online store. If they do giveaways, they come to you for that, stuff like that. But that same brand is doing wholesale packaging for their chips, they're doing corrugated point-of-purchase displays for grocery stores, signage for store windows, all these printed materials. And they're doing that through one, if not multiple other providers. And imagine if you as the distributor, you're also able to handle those things for them and be that kind of one-stop shop and make things as easy as possible for them. Huge opportunity there. And the flip side of that is if you don't do that, you've got competitors who are probably going to at some point. Yeah. And, you know, obviously, if you're really good at what you do, and you have those, those great relationships with your customers, that's going to make it a harder decision for them to go elsewhere. But it's like, why even open the door to that? You know, why even leave that room for that possibility when you have so much to gain from it? And, you know, your customer has so much to gain from it too.

Agreed.

Agreed. I also think it creates so much more stickiness with your customer, where that being that one source solution just allows you to continue tighter and tighter with that customer and be able to look at your other customer base too and offer other solutions for them down the road as your business continues to grow. And I think that, you know, a lot of distributors just need to look for— look at it a little bit differently and, you know, open their minds up to the opportunity of it.

Yeah, yeah, it puts you in a position more of strategy too than sourcing again, which is where we actually want to get to. Sean, I think it's safe to say you guys have done an excellent job highlighting what's happening in the consumer market in terms of trends. You mentioned Brandon and his eagle eye for spotting some cool things that are happening out there.

It's—

I think it's safe I think it's safe to say that swag over the past several years, maybe especially 5 years, we have seen this respectability, this increase, I think, in the consumer market with consumer trends, as it no longer being just, you know, the thing you threw in the top of your closet and forgot about. So now we're driving results with this on the consumer side. It's kind of cool what's happening. How have you seen this attitude impact our industry? Has it made it sort of across the aisle, if you will, to us, to where we recognize that this is a really cool experience that we get to create for clients.

Well, first of all, thanks for the kind words. I appreciate that coming from you, especially Bobby. And, you know, that's a huge part of what we try to do is really put a spotlight on these things and tell some of those stories of some of these great campaigns and branded merchandise that we see out there. I think to fully answer this question, you have to kind of look at the opposite side first, which is that it feels like every couple of months we're still getting that article from Fast Company or whoever about, you know, how wasteful promotional products are and how X event decided they weren't going to do swag bags anymore or whatever. I know a lot of people in the industry were kind of dismissive when that Fast Company article came out a couple years ago, but when I was covering it, we made a point of saying like, look, this perception is real. This can have real negative impacts on the industry. You know, there are potential actual business consequences that can come from this. This isn't just someone writing this and putting it out there and then everybody forgets about it. That may have just been an article, but recently you get something like Patagonia discontinuing corporate branding on their jackets because they decided that that's wasteful, which number one, that directly impacts any distributor who's selling Patagonia jackets. And number two, that ends up being a huge story. It was all over the internet. So people read that, they see that Patagonia thinks branded jackets are wasteful, and then it colors their opinion of branded merchandise. You've got this whole perception that keeps permeating things. I lead with all that because I think finally in the last couple years, and this goes to your point, we're starting to see more of the inverse finally, more coverage of branded merchandise as this legitimate, cool, must-have thing, and not just more coverage of it, but more mainstream coverage. Like I've now seen in the past year, the Washington Post and the New York Times are writing about merchandise drops. Like it's just a normal thing. There was a Forbes article in June where they talked about, I think the headline was like, if you notice, branded merchandise everywhere. You're not alone, here's why. And it was this long story about, you know, all these different drops and capsule collections and all that. And then earlier this year you had— was it Adam Bluestein? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wrote that great long-form article in Medium about how all these big brands are now selling branded merchandise. So you have these writers and publications outside the industry who are taking notice of this stuff and getting in front of huge audiences. And I think that really helps legitimize what what the industry is doing and what branded merchandise can be in the eyes of the consumers and helps to counteract some of that negative perception that's been out there for so long and really starts to put it in positive terms for people who aren't familiar with it.

Yeah. Sean, this whole sort of renewed— and I love the contrast that you made to the negative press, but this respectability of merchandise has really skyrocketed. I wonder if this is really affecting the way we sell. What I mean by that is, if I were presenting, if I were still a distributor and I was selling to a new prospect, for example. Those are examples that I would be taking and showing to my customers. What's happened in the consumer market? How else should this affect the way we sell going forward based on what you guys know and what you've seen?

I think the big thing here is that in a lot of these cases, what we're seeing now is this is branded merchandise that people are paying for and going out of their way to buy, and brands are realizing that they have fan bases or audiences who are literally paying to advertise their product. So if you're a brand, you know, this is, this is a dream scenario for you. You know, before we might have seen this with bands or artists or, I don't know, entertainment properties, but now it's like people are going out of their way to wear a McDonald's t-shirt because there was a merchandise drop or something, right? Um, and you know, on that subject, like, you've got the merch capsules and the drops, got the influencer marketing on social media, and all this is kind of coming together to keep amplifying, legitimizing these brands and, you know, the merchandise even more. You got Duncan just did the partnership with Charli D'Amelio. So that's— she's got 111 million social media followers. So you've got the branded merchandise aspect and also all of that, you know, social media influence and the exposure there. So again, I think this is all part of a broader shift in the way that people view branded merchandise as a must-have thing and kind of this natural part of the pop culture discourse. You know, like if I go on a brand's website and they don't have a merch store at this point, I'm surprised. Like, that's right, it's the opposite of what it was a couple years back. So I, I don't think this— it applies to every customer, every order. I mean, there's, there's still going to be customers who just want bulk t-shirts or pens or whatever, but some customers are going to, you know, maybe you show them what Dunkin' or McDonald's has done And they're more willing now to swing for the fences and try some things that allow them to get more out of their brand and merchandise than they ever thought was possible. And I think the cool thing is that it scales down pretty well. Like a local coffee shop isn't going to go insanely viral on TikTok. I mean, maybe they will, but most likely they're not going to, but maybe you can do something smaller scale that builds buzz on a local level on social media and get some of those local customers to come in. You buy our hoodie, post a picture of yourself wearing it, tag yourself, us, and a couple of your friends. And right there, that brings in that added social media marketing element that they might not have realized was even possible. And again, it elevates the merchandise from a logo on a shirt to this great interactive marketing medium that is kind of like the pinnacle of what you can do with advertising.

Yeah, and scaling down to every brand, like you mentioned, it's as if we're tapping into this pulse that's happening in culture right now where folks want to express this affinity they have for this brand because it's a part of their identity, but also they've got an emotional connection to this brand of some kind. And I think if I were selling even to a bank, an insurance company, whatever, I might be selling to an insurance company. And so Fortune 100 company, it might be a best places to work for company. And there is an emotional connection. I think with us, it's a matter of finding that emotional connection, using these examples to show what's happening in the consumer market. And then we can, we can actually elevate that for every brand. I love what you said though. Every coffee shop can become that sort of intimate experience that way.

Yeah, no doubt. I've also seen it in the retail brands. Like if you look like Brandy Melville, Nordstrom's, or PacSun, and you walk in any of those locations and, you know, either it's a Coca-Cola brand, a Busch. I mean, I bought a Busch beer hat the other day at a retail location. I mean, I was nostalgic from, from my college days. But, you know, you just are seeing much more of that, you know, branded merchandise in retail locations where you've never seen it before. And I think from perpetuating the concept within the retail marketplace, you're also seeing a lot there as well.

Yeah. And also, I was going to throw in just as far as like this, going back to the Space Jam 2 kit, you know, when I was talking about the products that were curated for it, a lot of them, when they were fitting into the theme, a lot of it was because of tapping into the nostalgia of what you were in the— like, when you saw that movie in the '90s too, you know. Like, I, I actually never saw the movie, but I remember it pretty vividly as far as like the advertising for it. And so you do feel that nostalgia of like, oh, there was Michael Jordan and Bugs Bunny and then all the other stuff too. And so, oh, they're bringing it back. So some of those products that were part of that were like— was like a Pez dispenser and really colorful shoes and things like that, of the example that I saw too. So I think at the end of the day It really is. Obviously, you want to get the brand out there and showcase it, but also you want to feel that connection and also kind of highlight the community that you're in. Because if there's some person that's doing this, I have that too. There is that connection point too.

Let's switch gears just a little bit to promo marketing. You know, I stated at the outro who promo marketing is, but I really want, you know, there are folks listening. We have a sizable audience and folks that might be brand new to the business, fresh to the industry. They don't really understand who promo marketing is. And I would tell you even those of us who've been in the business a while don't quite understand who NAPCO is.

And so why don't we let you guys explain a little bit?

Because there's some cool things going on. Mike, can you explain NAPCO Media for our community and what it is that you guys do?

Yeah, I'll just give you the 30,000-foot view of it right at the moment. So like, NAPCO Media is actually the media arm of the Specialty Graphics and Imaging Association, or otherwise known as SGIA, and of the Printing United Alliance, which is the largest association for the graphic arts community in North America. So Chip can explain a little bit more about that. But as far as NAPCO Media, it's comprised of 11 media brands and 10 event brands that serves over 650,000 subscribers across a variety of vertical markets, whether it's marketing or retail, nonprofit space, printing, packaging, publishing, and of course us with the promotional products.

Right.

Yeah.

One of the things we've really been able to do is look and connect adjacent markets and leveraging our different audience engagement tools that we have and the knowledge platforms that we've created to really grow and develop communities. So we've moved from one community to the next, really kind of as they interconnect. And just one good example of where we're at today and how we listen is 25 years ago, 80% of NAPCO's business was ink on paper. Today it is about 20%. So we listen to our communities and, you know, kind of change as, as they do to, you know, really support their evolving needs.

I, I'm really curious about NAPCO in terms of the reason why we started out this conversation with this cross-section and cross-selling is because you're working with all types of media, if I understand right, retail nonprofits, massive organization. Where does promo fit into this and what categories that you're working with are like the largest parts of Napco Media?

So the largest part is our commercial printing group. You know, the printing Impressions Magazine is our, is our largest connection. That's how we ended up getting connected to SGIA. That's where we found that main connection point. But like all of these adjacent markets that we've discussed have one way or another kind of plug into the marketplace. For example, Just to talk a little bit more about what Printing United is and, you know, what it really does. So it's from an expo standpoint, it was, you know, it's an expo specifically for professionals in the industrial, graphic, apparel, textile, electronics, packaging, and commercial printing communities. And really people go and show up at Printing United looking for different ways to diversify their business or investigating new segments. So one example I think that ties into our industry, if you're a screen or you're a a sign shop and you're interested in adding different things to your sign shop, whether it's a direct-to-garment printer so you can print apparel, or if it's an etching machine where you might bring in some drinkware and do some etching on drinkware. It's really a way for anybody who wants to lay ink on anything or put their brand on anything to be able to connect with each other and look for opportunities to grow there.

How big is that show usually?

So it's around 30,000+ typically is the, is the size of the show. Trade Show Executive listed us as one of the top 50 shows in the, in the world, as well as, um, we were listed as the fastest growing show as well.

That's massive, massive. Let's talk about Promo Marketing for just a little bit, Sean. You guys have done an excellent job reporting at Promo Marketing, and I love what you blend with expertise from practitioners in the business as well as strategic insight. And this consumer voice that you have, I think, is a brilliant voice that you guys do a great job with. That Promo Marketing Magazine Sometimes when you go to the website, folks can get confused and they're like, are they a distributor or are they a magazine? Do you guys get that a lot?

Yeah, we get, we get confused with a lot of different things. Sometimes I'll get emails like, hey, can you, can you help me find, you know, 30,000 USB drives at this price? And I'm like, yeah, that's not us.

Literally had that to me yesterday too. 50 insulated bags. I'm like, use the search engine.

We have a search engine that has, you know, hundreds of thousands of products that would probably fit those things. But I mean, our Our main goal is, like you said, Bobby, from a media standpoint, is to provide engaging content for promotional products professionals with the hope of giving them the information that helps them succeed. And a big thing for me in the time that I've been editor-in-chief has been to approach the content in an entertaining way, make it readable. I mean, my thing from the start has been, if we're writing about how to sell pens, that can get dry really fast. But there are ways you can do that and there are ways you can pull out the story and find a story in just about anything and, you know, tell it in a compelling way. And that's been a huge part of what we try to do with promo marketing, whether that's telling stories about people and companies in the industry and some of the great things that they're doing and putting a spotlight on that, or it's just telling a story of, you know, here are these tools that you as a promotional products distributor can use to help grow your business, you know, stay up to date on industry issues, things like that.

You guys have done a great job with that, Sean, by the way.

Yeah, thank you. And, you know, because we have all these other brands at NapcoMedia, we're able to really analyze the content through this wider lens and incorporate viewpoints that really resonate with our readers and kind of tell that conversion story. So that's, that's been a huge part of what we're doing.

Yeah, I can see, you can see that shift with what you're doing with your print media and promo and trying to help cross-sell and cross-educate folks. Printing United is such a huge show, but you also do these, these more intimate show experiences like, like the Promo Marketing Power Meetings. For those that are new that have no idea what I'm talking about, about. Can you share what those meetings are? They're specific to promotional products professionals as opposed to the Printing United show that you talked about. What's the format? Who are they for? What is that experience like?

Yeah, the Power Meetings. And just, just so you know, like, that's one of the connections that I had with NAPCO Media, and the reason I'm here today was because of the Power Meetings. I got connected to NAPCO through, uh, when I was with Delta Apparel, you know, found the, the meetings extremely beneficial. So basically what they are— and this is the 10th anniversary of the Power Meeting, by the way, um, so we're excited about that. Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's considered a, uh, a hosted buyer event. So we take, you know, top distributors, about 35+ of them, as well as 35+ suppliers, and they meet one-on-one in a hotel suite over a 20-minute period, you know, where they're meeting one-on-one. And that's over a 2.5-day period. So it's like speed dating for the promo market. Uh, it's a lot of fun. Um, it's, it's a great way to really connect and, you know, get to know each other. Our first meeting will be taking place in Napa on August 23rd. Yay for that! So it's, it's a— we've had a little time off for a couple different reasons, but we're excited to kick this off in August. And then we also have another event too, which is known as our Distributor Connect event, which we've been talking a lot about convergence here. So it's taking suppliers and distributors from that print and promo world and bringing them together, same exact format. That's going to be happening in November in San San Diego.

Cool.

Is that specific to cross-channel selling?

Yes, we've had that event.

Okay.

For about the last 5 years. Um, but it focuses, you know, so there's more label, uh, there's more packaging, there's a lot of different things that go into that. It also includes some of the promotional suppliers as well. So we focus on distributors who kind of have a cross-section of promo and print business.

For those that aren't familiar with the Power Meetings, are a deep dive with suppliers where you can actually dig in and understand their line, as opposed to a show where you typically walk by and just see something pretty and move on.

Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's what we found the most beneficial. And it, you know, from a sales perspective, when I was with Delta, it helped us grow our business, you know, double digits every single year by connecting this way. And it really gives you that opportunity to have that connection, to network, to build a relationship. And I can tell you from those meetings, you know, I have multiple longstanding, you know, friendships and relationships I've had throughout the years. And it just allows you to, you know, really grow your business.

Yeah, that's cool.

I was gonna say, just to piggyback off of Chip's statement, is something that you actually mentioned earlier, like a trade show, you walk by and see something pretty and just kind of move on. We've been doing this for so many, so many years, and there's not a time that goes by there's not distributors that say like, I'm so glad I got a chance to meet with, you know, X company. I walked right past them at a trade show, but now that I actually got to meet with them, I learned so much more about, you know, what they're doing, and they're my go-to supplier for whatever product that they're doing too. So that's always the big benefit to this, for especially the smaller, more boutique suppliers sometimes.

So yeah, that's cool. Mike, Sean, Thank you guys for joining us today.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkuCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SkuCast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.

Mm-hmm.