Episode 215: Transitioning a Legacy Business for Growth with Genumark's Mitch Freed & Mark Freed

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

All the kinds of things that we've been talking about for years and years and transforming our business like COVID sort of accelerated that whole thing.

Totally.

And that's why I think a lot of, you know, a lot of us are, you know, coming back with a bang here because our clients are really starting to appreciate what it is that we can do for them.

That's the voice of Mark Freed, the now executive chairman at GenuMark. GenuMark is the largest Canadian-owned distributor and recently named Mitch Fried its new chief executive officer. Mark Fried served as the company's top executive for 27 years, and Mitch, prior to joining GenuineMark in 2017, worked as a strategy consultant in KPMG's management consulting practice. He was also the co-founder and general manager of an experiential entertainment company. Most recently, Mitch led the GenuineMark sales team as executive vice president of sales and strategy. He also quarterbacked GenuineMark's acquisition of Right Sleeve in 2019. Today we talk about multiple topics including succession planning. Mark and Mitch provides some really practical advice on leadership transitions. We also talk about how to change a legacy business while staying true to your core, and we dig into Mark's journey as he reflects back on one of the most successful and storied careers in the business. We dig into his advice for leaders, and we talk with both Mitch and Mark about where we should be focusing our energies now. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, CommsQ's Chief Content Officer. On Wednesday, March 9th, we will be hosting CommsQ University. A conference for Commscue customers that focuses on how to use the platform to grow your business and boost your sales and productivity. It's for distributor and supplier customers. We'll share everything from how to simplify your workflow to creating a killer client experience. One reason I love it is that it's a highly concentrated few hours of in-app insight, and we all know we underutilize the tools that power our business because in our hurried pace, we often don't set aside the time to learn. Well, here's your chance. Go register at commonscue.com/university. And I'll see you there. Today's episode is brought to you by Commenscue, the work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more or to begin your free trial now, visit commenscue.com. Now here's my chat with Mark and Mitch. You know, Mark, there are two types of companies as they mature. There's companies who decide consciously or subconsciously to sunset their business, risk less, sort of coast on their success. No one can blame them for that. And then there are those who affirmatively decide we're going to continue to invest and reinvent our business. And you obviously made a decision to keep investing in Genium Marketing. You could have done any number of things. You could have sold the business, you could have merged. Why was it important for you to choose this path?

I think when we look at, or when I look at how we How we got where we are today, I think, is a combination of business reasons and maybe psychological reasons. So let's start with the psychological. I think that's probably more interesting. You know, I grew up in a family business environment, and I was in Windsor, Ontario, on the border with Detroit. Our business, or the family's business, was a clothing store that was started by my grandfather in 1929. And it's still there today.

Wow.

93 years later. And had a run where my, uh, after my grandfather, it was my dad and my uncle. They ran it to the point where it became the, uh, largest independent clothing retailer in Canada. And then, uh, it was followed by my, my brother and my cousin. And now I've got a couple of my nephews in there. So it's like 4 generations. And my dad, who is turning 86, if he's not in Florida and if he's, uh, in Canada, he'll still go he'll go into work every day. Wow. So maybe not the full day, but he'll definitely make an appearance, you know. So I obviously chose another path. I didn't go into that particular business. But in terms of our business, you know, every so often, you know, I would get approached and, how do you feel about selling your business? Or what's your exit strategy? And that kind of thing. And it always kind of made me feel a little uncomfortable and uneasy and I was never really ready for that. So that's sort of the psychology of it. And I think from a business point of view, you look at it and I think we could have been a very good fit with a number of other organizations. But you look at it and they value your business and whether it's 5 times, 6 times, 8 times, whatever multiple they're using, it could be very fair, But you know what, if you have confidence in the enterprise and you're enjoying it, uh, you know, why not hang on to it for as long as you can? And now, you know, with the second generation option with Mitch, who's, uh, you know, very, uh, capable and, uh, committed— hey, you know, you have an opportunity to work with your son, uh, how do you beat that? Yeah, I would say if he wasn't interested and committed and if that option wasn't there, that this might be a different conversation.

Right.

Very lucky that way.

Well, I could see, given your heritage, then how long you held on to the business and just you were in— you were like— you strike me as someone never disengaged from the business. And so given your heritage, there was this independent entrepreneurial, especially in that business where those companies got gobbled up in the custom clothing business.

Totally, totally.

So independence is obviously a streak that runs through you. Personally?

Yeah, I can speak to that a little bit. But you know what, some people may not remember, in my personal journey, if you will, through this industry, is in the mid-'90s, uh, we, we sold to Halo. And so we were— that's right, we in fact became Halo Canada. So I mean, it's a little bit of been there, done that. And I mean, it was great. And that was right, that was in the public company days. I mean, I was there ringing the bell on the New York Stock Exchange. Yeah, when, uh, Halo went public, uh, or, you know, got listed in New York. And that was really fun and fascinating. And it was a hell of a journey and learned a lot, met a lot of dynamic people, learned some great things. Some of it was what to do and certain things what not to do. Got lucky again. Hale Howe did sort of some restructuring, let's call it, and they spun us out. And I mean, there was a few dipsy doodles in between, but ultimately I was able to buy back what was the Canadian entity and then rebranded that as GenuMark. And then from then on, we just sort of felt like— I felt like we just— there was a lot to conquer in Canada and we could just sort of stay in our lane. I had experience of an enterprise that was trying to get up to $1 billion and take over the world and all that other stuff. And like I said, it was great and just a tremendous training ground for me. And, but, you know, I got very comfortable and, you know, could do it my way and our way and really haven't looked back from that.

It's a rare gift and chance to be able to buy your company back and then just in a sense start over.

Totally, totally.

I want to shed some light on succession planning and what that looks like from a real practical perspective. I know there's many second or third generation businesses or companies who are looking at succession planning and want to know what that experience is like. So Mark, as executive chairman now, as I mentioned in the intro, as executive chairman, how is your role going to be distinct from Mitch's moving forward? What does that look like on a day-to-day, month-to-month basis?

Probably looks like one of us is going to be working and putting in more hours than the other one. I think fundamentally, I mean, if you look at our org chart now and the little changes we made, a lot of the people who have been reporting directly to me are now, you know, reporting up through Mitch. And, you know, my main point of contact and collaboration will be with Mitch. Not that I won't talk to other people, be a little more selective, I guess, in picking and choosing. If I was 25,000 feet up or 30,000 feet up, maybe I'm 40,000 feet up now. So I think he'll definitely be in the weeds a little more, maybe a lot more than— but I spent a lot of time there. So it's his time. So I think it's a win-win. Look, I done it for a long time, right? Maybe some fresh and new ideas. I think you welcome that in terms of the transformation and the growth and the evolution of the company. I think, I think the time was right.

Mitch, before I move on, you want to comment on that?

Well, one thing I will say is when we announced the changes last Tuesday, I told a story about when I was in my first job in management consulting. My manager had basically said to me, or taught me, about role progression and progressing to new heights and taking on new challenges. And he basically said, you know, throughout your career, if you're going to want— you're going to want to jump to the next level, you're going to have to act in that new role for a minimum of 6 months, prior to taking on whatever that role is that you're trying to grab. Yeah. And I'd like to think that while the announcements sound like a big deal, and they are, of course, and it is a big deal, but I do think that once the dust settles, it's gonna feel pretty similar to the way it's felt. Yeah. Probably longer than the last 6 months, to, to be honest, actually. Yeah. And, uh, and that's what I think made us ready. Part of that, by the way, is good business planning. I remember it was 2019 ASI Power Summit. The two of us were talking. That would have been like October, November of 2019, so Q4. We're just talking about the business, and, and my dad said, you know, Q1 2022 should be a really good goal for us to make the transition. Wow. So with that in mind, and we, and we kept that as like a goalpost.

Okay.

So with that in mind, I, I think like maybe my mentality shifted gradually, maybe my dad's mentality shifted gradually. People who were in the know sort of got to know the plan sort of as we got closer and closer, and maybe we sort of inched into those roles a little more naturally because we knew it was coming. So I just think we were ready. And I don't think that, like I said, I think that announcements always sound like a big shock. I don't think day-to-day people are going to think much is different.

But that's a really great practical tip because succession planning can slog on forever as folks sit in indecision mode. And by setting those goalposts or setting that target, there was a self-accountability built in for both of you to aim toward a certain date.

Yeah. And we didn't, and we didn't change it by the way, with everything going on and, you know, COVID or whatever, we just, uh, really kind of stuck to it, to that plan. Yeah.

It's a great tip. Uh, Mark, what made Mitch ideal for this role?

And that's funny. That's something we also talked to. We, we talked to our, like our, all the Geniemark about that. Like, how is it that of all the people in the world, it's my son Mitch, who's really the, uh, the best guy, you know, most qualified person for this job. And, uh, But when you really look at it, you can make the case, you know, who's had more exposure to Genuine Mark and what we do in our industry. I mean, it's been a part of his life since he was a wee child, right? You know, and even beyond that, stints in high school, whether he did data entry or working in the— slugging it out in the warehouse, that was really good perspective. He's a pretty, you know, well-rounded guy in business school and MBA at Kellogg at Northwestern. And then, you know, Mitch touched on, he did management consulting and he even floundered in a startup for a while, and which was, I think, really, really valuable. And so just from that perspective and from that experience, that was good. And then since he's been at GenuineMark, I think We had to kind of see how that would go. And, you know, I'm not going to— it wasn't a free pass by any means. So he had to come and, you know, if he would have pissed off the existing management team and when he came in and not gotten along, that would have been a problem. But that didn't occur. And he was, you know, pretty humble about it as the owner's son or whatever you want to call that. And worked hard to earn the respect and trust of everybody else. And You know, I think he's, you know, he's got the goods. He's, uh, determined. He's, um, he's a good guy and empathetic and a great communicator. And, uh, now I feel really, really good and confident about, about what he can do.

Yeah. And I can really appreciate it, Mitch. You and I don't have the same pedigree, but we have— we both grew up in the business. And so I was slinging boxes, you know, um, right out of high school on fulfillment program and packing. And you learn by, by touching every part of the business. You learn so much, particularly now that the business has gotten so complex that just having your hands involved as you've grown up in the business is pretty vital.

Absolutely. I'm just, just knowing what the different roles are in the warehouse. Yeah, right. Understanding who's doing what at a pretty young age when you barely know what a program is, right? That, that really teaches you how valuable and how important the team is.

Absolutely.

Being it at every level and working in the different divisions throughout your life. So totally invaluable experience. And to my dad's story there, I mean, totally plagiarized. We told this last Tuesday. I mean, there was a podcast that you did with Jeremy Lott, talked about family business, and he asked the question and he talked about how he took this family business class out of school at Kellogg with the same family business teacher that I had, like really serendipitous weird stuff. When I first listened to that podcast, I don't remember what year you guys came out with that podcast. It was probably a year or two after I joined Jenniemark when I was probably feeling pretty self-conscious about the whole rough plan that we had had. And Jeremy told that story about, you know, how is it possible that of all the people in the world— and I felt like that, like I was super, super concerned about that walking in and, you know, people knowing the path that I was probably on. And yeah, and it actually, like, his perspective gave me a ton of confidence. Into thinking like, you know what, this is, this actually is a good plan. And if I work hard, I probably do, like Mark said, have the goods to make this work. And, uh, you know, that's why it's important, Bob, that you share these stories, because that actually made a big impact on me. And we told that story last Tuesday, and, uh, we, we videotaped our town hall, and I even sent it to Jeremy and showed him that I plagiarized and stole his idea. It was a big help. Yeah, sort of framing that paradigm shift in my mind, which was being super concerned about people thinking of me in that way to having some confidence in, you know, the training that I had growing up in my dad's house probably did prepare me a lot more than, than I give myself credit for, you know.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Mark Graham's gonna love hearing that because I think he's the one that did that interview on that particular topic with Jeremy. Yeah, switching over to another topic. Over the past few years, Mark, over your career, you've witnessed pandemics, multiple recessions— not just a recession, but multiple recessions— a complete change in how we work, from the virtual and hybrid, and there's likely more big changes to come. What's one or two traits unique to GenuMark that you feel like won't change?

When I think about that, I think it's like, you know, when in doubt, you sort of go back to your core values. And, you know, one of our core values is we are very customer-centric, client-first mentality, and really adhere and focus on that and to the end goal is, you know, what are we going to do to give our client the best experience that we possibly can? So we, you know, I kind of always go back to that and, and then, you know, well, how do we get there? And the way that we've gotten there is get the best people that we can. And we're still a, you know, a human-driven entity and, you know, love— we love talent and we love to nurture talent. And retain talent. We've had a really good recipe that way in terms of keeping an unbelievable team, core team, for a very, very long period of time. And that's really worked, you know, really given us a lot of stability at all levels of the company, whether it's the management level, the sales level, ops, finance, whatever. So, you know, I would go, go to that. And then, you know, in terms of customer-centric, but also, you know, to an extent employee-centric as well. So To that end, if we want to retain everybody and keep them happy and keep them together, then we've got to look at what do we need to do. So you talk about how things are changing and whether we're going to remote or hybrid or whatever it is. So we have been and we will be extremely flexible and responsive to our team and our employees and how they want to work, assuming they can still be productive, which they can be and have demonstrated, then we're open to whatever works best for them so that they're happy and engaged and committed and feeling good about things. So, yeah, uh, you know, that's— it was a good little tester for sure. And, uh, that won't disappear. And, you know, I think we also said when we spoke to everybody at GenuineMark with, you know, Mitch kind of knows how we feel and he's been part of it and understands our values. And, you know, if I was selling to a different ownership team— and listen, there's a lot of great owners and operators and some of the core values don't vary that much— but I can tell you we'll, we'll continue on that path For sure.

That sounded like a softball question. The reason I ask it is there's so many leaders and entrepreneurs in the business right now that feel like things are a little bit out of control, whether it's supply chain, whatever it is they're dealing with. And given you look back, the question is, what can you control? And you mentioned customer experience and employee experience. Those are things you can focus on and actually do something about. So that's why I love your answer about that. Mitch, you are not one to sit still, and you likely have some pretty aggressive plans for GeniaMark. Are there categories or like areas of the business you plan to intensify?

Yes.

Okay.

So there, there's really, there's two areas. If you asked me this question, by the way, Bobby, two years ago, it would probably be the same answer. So I would say we're laser focused on these areas. The less obvious answer is technology integration, both on their front end and back end. So back when I, when I joined GenuineMark, one of the first things I guess I put my thumbprint on was looking at the business, didn't feel like we had enough technology support in our sales workflow. That's how I met you, Bobby, and the crew at Commonsku. So we brought Commonsku into Jennymark. That has been great. I would still say we're still tip of the iceberg and truly understanding how to fully utilize the tool. One thing I'm super excited about is elevating someone like Stephen Musgrave, who's now our EVP of sales at Jennymark, who comes from Right Sleeve, which was an acquisition that we did a couple of years ago with our friends, the Gramms. And, you know, just, just helping our whole sales team just really dig into that technology piece much, much better than I ever could. He was really on the inside of developing that tool, I would say. So that's on the front end. But what we plan on doing and what we've been working towards for a couple of years now, just with interruptions here and there, the pandemic certainly didn't help, is integrating our ERP, our backend with our frontend, having the two talk to each other very seamlessly. Yeah. Just create a better end-to-end experience, uh, both for our customers and for our workforce. So that continues to be an internal project. We've made a lot of strides over the last year post the pandemic, I would say. I expect that to be tied up this year. So that's a, that's a really important project. So one is, you know, continuing to to invest in technology. That's a specific one we're working on.

Yeah.

And the second is the obvious answer, which is how could we not invest in our people if it's a people-driven business? Yeah. And of course I have big dreams and plans to grow the business. And to do that, we have to do that by growing our, our workforce, our sales force, and just growing the people that are already insulated in our workforce. Just an example of something that we announced and changed is, you know, we have, we, we have someone out west who's a phenomenal account manager but has this way with people that I've never seen before. She inspires people, she has charisma that's just incredible. So we've elevated her role to, to sort of be the face of Western Canada for us. Her name is Eleanor Davidson. She's, she's based in our Vancouver office, and, you know, my plan for her is to help us build a West Coast team because We have our head office out east in Toronto and can't be everywhere at once. So yeah, you know, we need, we need help sort of in all facets of our business to grow the team. So it's little things like that that continue to, to invest in, in our people. And, you know, whether that's, uh, hearing our folks and, you know, if there's specific trainings that they want. I mean, you can't operate a business with good people that want to stay in your business if you don't continue to invest in those people as well. So whether that's providing training that they need, giving them the tools, resources that they need to be elevated in their job. You know, that, that's going to be really important for us as we continue to maintain and grow business.

Genymark's always excelled at program business. So did your business mix change over the pandemic? Did your client mix change? Did your focus change? Did you end up doing far more program and fulfillment than you ever thought, or did it— was it not that volatile for you?

We did a lot more orders that touched the warehouse. I wouldn't say like they're pure programs, but we did way more kitting. Yeah. And we did way more, I mean, that's sort of, that's the sort of obvious answer. Yeah. So I don't know if you categorize that as pure program, but logistically the business became way more difficult.

And listen, anytime you're shipping 1,000 pieces to 1,000 locations, that's a hell of a lot more complicated than 1,000 pieces to one location. Right. You know, so that definitely, you know, we're no different than anybody else in the space for that. But we're all, we're all dealing with that.

Yeah. Mitch, do you see the world of sales changing? And if so, how? I know you have a traditional business, you acquired Rightsleeve, which was one of the big initiatives you had. And so do you see sales changing?

I just think that, listen, I know sales in the context of this industry. So let's talk about this industry, right? I think it's very clear, we talked about this all the time, like, the good old days of being an order taker and just sort of building a business that way and sort of getting lucky with clients and having like just constant emails coming your way and just having a great business that way, like that's part of it. That doesn't exist the same way it did. And our industry is moving away. It's, it's becoming less and less of a commoditized industry each and every year, in my opinion.

I agree.

We're in an industry now where ideas matter. Execution really matters. Sometimes price is going to play into that, but you should be able to sell yourself, the services we provide, way beyond that. So I'm saying if you're just an— you're an order taker, it's going to be really tough moving forward. I think, I think it's just so much more than also just being— maybe if you were really charismatic and you could sort of hook a client in, but then you could just take those orders back and like, that doesn't fly anymore. Like, now you need to be be super organized. You need to be able to use technology tools. Yeah, keep you super organized. You need to just be firing on all cylinders in order to be successful. So I think it's just so much more than just being that biz dev person that can just— that has that charisma that can attract him or herself to people. Yeah, it's now— it's, it's, it's also so much about that customer service component and execution. I think it always has been, but it's just exploding in terms of—

yeah.

The skill set that you need to make it in our business.

Yeah, totally agree. Switching now to the industry sort of in a general sense, Mitch, what do you think is one of the most broken parts of it? You might have already answered this, but what do you think is one of the most broken parts and how do you hope to make a difference?

The most obvious right now and the most current is the supply chain issues that we're dealing with. I mean, talk about broken, it is, it is a mess and it's affecting our interactions with our clients, quite honestly.

Yeah.

In a couple ways. You know, we don't have the information that we need as distributors, and I'm not like— suppliers are flying by the seat of their pants because things are changing all day, every day. I think technology tools like an integration through Promo Standards where you have live information telling you exactly what inventory is on hand, what the price is today, because the price is changing literally. It's one price one day and it could be another price the next day. Yeah, like, you know, having to quote something and then go back to your client 2 days later because because the information you thought you had was actually now incorrect. Like, that's just a broken, bad way to talk to your clients. And it's really out of a lot of people's control. So I think that tools like that common SKU promo standard integration will certainly help us. It's not gonna totally get rid of it. I mean, I think unfortunately it's one of those things where time is gonna—

Well, we got a, it's a global issue across all industries.

I mean, Absolutely. But I think for us, it makes things really, really difficult. And it also makes it really hard to keep up with the speed of like business demands too that we have from our clients.

Yeah.

So to me, that's fundamentally broken right now. I think it will get fixed with time. Yeah. Like Mark said, it'll get fixed sort of hopefully across all industries, but it also makes us just so much more inefficient You know, if you used to be able to quote a 100-piece order in 10 minutes, could take 10 times as long to find that exact piece for the right price. It's just, just makes it incredibly difficult.

Yeah, you add that to the business has gotten infinitely more complex than it, than I think it was at one time for everyone, then it just really is a recipe for chaos. Mark, where do you think it's most important for leaders to invest now?

You know, we talked about technology. I, you know, I'm— we are really focused on supply chain right now. And just further what Mitch said, I think there's the whole building that relationship with your key partners or vendors or suppliers. I, you know, really digging deep and finding out what it is that we need, what it is that our customers need, and having them understand where we need to be. And whether it's a product or whether it's timelines or whether it's sustainability, which is huge. And just that education and building great relationships with great suppliers, I think that's been the most volatile area the last year or so after we sort of got through the initial phase of COVID So, you know, I think as an organization we want, and we've done some stuff internally really to get better in terms of that, in terms of, you know, consolidating our best supplier partners and really having them understand our business and building strength and building trust and reliability. I think that helps a little bit in terms of, you know, some of the wildcard stuff that's out there right now. So we, we're going to do what we can and invest the time. You know, I don't know if that's necessarily dollars and cents investment, but it's just a real focus. You know, we look at our customers and for sure that's a given, but I think there's the other half as well that can't be neglected.

Yeah. What I love about what you said too is strengthening those supplier relationships. I remember I went through the same, not near as difficult as it is now, but went going through the same experience where we were reducing the number of supplier partners, we were amping up sort of our partnership with our key suppliers. And I remember sitting down with our P&L with actually about 10 suppliers and going, I just want you to kind of understand our business a little bit better. And that was like a watershed moment for me. That was like me entering into a better relationship with supplier in a very tactical way.

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes they just don't know because no one ever explained it to them, you know, not necessarily their fault. And, you know, so, uh, yeah, I think you can really make great strides that way.

Yeah, we talked a lot about the challenges. What inspires you most now? And Mitch, I want to ask you this too, but Mark, as you look at the industry, you've seen so many changes through the years. What inspires you most about this particular place and time and where we're at?

Yeah, I'm— I think truly it is an inspirational time. And, you know, when you look at the pandemic and everything, and the first month or so when like the bottom fell out completely from what we were doing, I mean, it's like, you know, do we have a business? Like, what the hell? That was, that was a little scary. And then Then I think for a short term, it was that run to PPE. We dabbled a little bit. We were fine. I don't think that was— I mean, it didn't transform our business. I think that was a great hustle business and commodity-based business for a short period of time. And that's really— we're more of the slow sell in the relationship and coming up with great creative curated promotional or apparel programs for our customers. So, you know, that was for the short term. Then I think what then evolved to what we saw is how this whole using our products and our merchandise really for, call it, brand elevation.

Yeah, really showcasing.

Yep. Our customers, you know, their DNA, and using our products for company morale and solidarity and rewarding people for all the kinds of things that we've been talking about for years and years and transforming our business. Like, COVID sort of accelerated that whole thing. Totally. And, and that's why I think a lot of, you know, a lot of us are, you know, we're coming back with a bang here because, uh, our clients are really starting to appreciate what it is that we can do for them. And, you know, in having some really great marketing campaigns, uh, HR now, you more than ever really understanding how our product— somebody gets a kit working at home and, you know, keeping— how do you keep them motivated and engaged and seeing the value of that? It's, it's never been better. So, you know, I think us and like a lot of the really good companies in our industry have done a phenomenal job and I think it's a win-win for everybody. So I think, yeah, I think that's really been inspirational.

Yeah, totally agree. Mitch, how about you? What excites you about this business now?

That is definitely the obvious story and one that we talk about all the time. Yeah, I'll just add to that. I went on a walk with someone this weekend and he was telling me that he had heard of a friend who just started working at a company, and they asked him a question like, pick a gift for someone. You could pick significant other, you know, sibling, or your dog. Or something, or a pet. And that company then gifted that significant other and said, hey, you know, your significant other just started with us. Thanks for lending him or her to us. Here's a token of our appreciation. It's like, talk about affecting culture. Now you've won over that person's spouse or partner, right? Look what our medium can do. And I think you talked about it at SKUCon a couple weeks ago, Bobby, which was, you know, we're having a moment in our industry, you know, merchandising at least is having a moment. And, you know, you're having— what was the campaign you talked about? Was it KFC where merchandise is running out, selling out before the campaign even starts, basically? Yeah, yeah. But I think we're pretty lucky that, that there's been this re-emergence and people are truly understanding, like, this whole trinkets and trash— I think the industry's done a really good job at combatting that, that slogan, hopefully eradicating it.

Agree.

Exactly. And the pandemic has really helped, as, as Mark just told his point of view. So, um, I think it's a great place to be and a great industry to work in. And I think it'll still provide— it provides people with exciting career opportunities and, you know, ways to affect their clients and team members more than we maybe ever even thought. Yeah, we used to think we were just supporting trade shows and yeah, doing cheap stuff for our clients. I mean, it's so much more than that, isn't it?

Yeah, I agree. Pretty exciting to see. Mark and Mark Graham and I talk about that, that it's never been harder to be in the business, but it's also never been more rewarding at this point to be in the business. So Mark, you're looking back at one of the most successful careers in the industry. This is really hard, but if you had to distill this and you had a cup of coffee with a new entrepreneur, what would you encourage them to do the most? And then what would you encourage them not to do?

What I would encourage them to do the most, I would say, is to surround yourself with as many smart and committed and driven people as you can. And I would break that down actually a couple of ways. Number one is within your organization, you know, you want, you want, you know, the best people you can who are committed to the organization, who are good people, people you can work with, people you can laugh with, and grow with. So, and you know, when I look at JenniMark, you know, like our management team, we've had unbelievable people who've been there a long time and, you know, David and John and that whole crew. And then I look at our client-facing sales team, you know, we've got some Hall of Fame people there, whether guys like Aaron Greenberg and Marie Sobko and Tricia Miller and Tracy Klingan who've been with, like, they're, you know, really it's the business family and these are unbelievable superstars in our industry who we've been lucky enough to have with us. And, you know, I can go, I can go to each department and go down the road. So within your company, get the best people you can. And then even outside the industry too, like, you know, you know, had great legal advice, accounting advice, banking advice, just really, again, developing relationships with people you can trust and, you know, talking to competitors and stuff like that. Just one anecdotally, we, you talked about Mark Graham. I'll give you a little Quick story there. I think it was about 20 years ago, we had a client, ongoing client, did lots of different business with them. Then the order we got every year, we didn't get it one year. I called the client, had a great relationship, and said, oh, we gave that order to Right Sleeve. And yes, like 20 years ago, I was like, what, what is Right Sleeve? And, you know, I had no idea. And then I think it was probably later on, a year or two or whatever, I saw Mark speak at some industry event, and, uh, I saw him and watched him. I said, oh shit, I mean, this guy's really smart. And then, uh, and then I, you know, I introduced myself to him after, and then found out that he's, uh, just as nice and as charming as he is smart. And I was like, oh, this guy is, uh, this is— and then we became, you know, those, uh, friendly competitors, although we really didn't compete all that much after that one client because they were kind of focused on one, we were focused on another area. And, uh, but we'd see each other periodically and, you know, hey, how are you, exchange a little information, stories and whatnot. And, uh, ultimately then I saw Common Skew, you know, I heard about that, and then I, I called, I said, we gotta have coffee and you got to tell me about this. And he says, oh yeah, we got this company and we got that company. And I'm gonna— I go, how can you do You know, the short story is I said, all right, listen, when you— when you— when both companies are too much for you, you let— you let me know. And, uh, I told him about Mitch, and Mitch was just, I think, coming on board at that time. And I was telling him about that, and he says, oh, you mean GenuineMark 2.0, and yada yada yada. And, you know, so when you look at what we've done with the impact of that with both common SKU and now with right sleeve, you know, it's really, you know, been a major part of the GenuineMark story. And that's Basically because, you know, uh, I, I guess had the good fortune of reaching out and meeting this guy and developing a relationship, getting outside the box a little bit. And that's the lesson. So, you know, I think the flip side of that is don't be too insular. And, you know, you can get caught up in it, you can be in your bubble early on. You're, you know, you're wearing multiple hats and you're trying the best you can to figure the whole thing out, and you really have got to carve out that time and make the effort to get out of that space.

I love that. Well told, because I think there are entrepreneurs that get into the business who are doing some great work, but they start to distance themselves from the business because they tend to kind of look down on some of the other professionals in the business. So they get further away, whereas it's a great classic story of, you know, keep your mind open, make friends in the business because you never know where you're going to end up with that. So, Mark, how about how— what would you encourage them not to do? I mean, I'm sure like many of us looking back, there are probably things you would do differently. Is there one or two things you would share?

Yeah, I mean, I think the only time I sort of get pissed off is sort of, you know, procrastination and delay. I think you're going to have issues. I mean, that comes with running, owning a company, and they could happen daily. Or, you know, the big ones will happen from time to time, and you've got to really dig into it and gather your information and get all perspectives and and then figure it out and then make your decision and then hit go. I think the times we've gotten in trouble is when we knew what we were supposed to do and we just sort of let it sit, whether it was, you know, whether it was process, whether it was personnel, whether it was not a great client fit, all those things. So, you know, do your work, figure it out, and move on because it's a fast-paced world out there and you've got to really keep it going and you've got to keep it fluid.

It's great advice, Mitch. Let's let you have the final word as you step into this new role. Um, what do you look forward to the most as you build out Genium Arc? Or maybe another way of asking that is, what does success look like to you in 5 years?

Sure. I mean, success— the, the obvious answer is, okay, well, let's look at the numbers. I want to see growth. I want to see, you know, X percentage growth year over year. And yes, I have a business plan, and yes, we have goals. I won't share those, but Those are the— that's the obvious stuff. But I think the stuff that almost matters just as much, if not more, is watching people continue to grow. And Jenny Mark, way before me, did an amazing job at bringing in great people and then watching them just blossom into these careers. And one thing that I was really excited about last week when we did all these announcements is we, you know, in addition to me there, like I said, there was a few other roles that, that were announced with people that were in the company, and people grew and have grown into new roles. And I, I love that, that part of the business and just bringing in new people, or whether it's people we have now, and just watching them blossom over their careers and grow into something more than they are now. I mean, that's, that's like the good stuff. That's, yeah, that, that's what you remember. And, uh, uh, you know, when you're looking back, I'm, I'm sure my, you know, my dad can think about his career and just You know, think about all the people that are still there and just where people started to where they are now. I hope that I have the good fortune of being able to watch that happen, you know, at Jenniemark as I step into this role and hopefully work with and help inspire, you know, a whole new group of people, you know, as we continue to do our thing over the next number of years. That's what I'm most excited about. And that's what That's what makes you feel good doing what we do. So, uh, certainly really looking forward to that and I'm confident we're going to do it.

Yeah, that's cool. You, you both built such an amazing business. What I love the most about you two though, is you're very approachable and talking about these things. Thanks for showing up and talking about these things, for being vulnerable with us and inspiring others. So appreciate you both so much.

It's been a pleasure.

Thank you for coming up with great questions. It always makes it super fun to chat with you.

Thank you, guys.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SKU Cast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.

Mm-hmm.