Episode 227: The twelveNYC Design Ethos with Katie Conovitz and Anna Wickes

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew. 12NYC was founded in 2005 to disrupt the conventional promotional product formula by delivering thoughtful, creative merchandise through experiences. Their ethos is anchored in thoughtful design, starting with merchandise and extending to every other aspect of the experience, from packaging, kitting, influencer digital engagement, to warehousing and shipping. They are a team of design thinkers, 100+ designers, operators, sustainability experts, and compliance experts who work in the spirit of partnership. Headquartered in Brooklyn, they have extended their global footprint to London, Hong Kong, Paris, and Los Angeles. They work with some of the world's most compelling brands across all types of industries such as L'Oréal, Sephora, Target, Google, Snapchat, and Pinterest, to name a few. Twelve NYC is very serious about sustainability. They have achieved their B Corp certification, and they've been recognized by the Financial Times, Business, Inc. 500, and many more, which I'll touch on more in just a moment. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, Chief Content Officer at Common Skew. Today we're speaking with Katie Konovitz, CEO and founder of Twelve NYC, and Anna Wicks, Senior Vice President and Creative and Development Lead and employee number 1. Our topics range from what it means to be an end-to-end design company, sustainability, their team structure, how they work with such high-demand clients, And we start our conversation by digging into Katie's story, how she started Twelve, and how to maintain year one mentality. Today's episode is brought to you by Commenscue, the work from anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commenscue.com. Now here's my chat with Katie and Anna. Katie, in 2005 you founded Twelve NYC at the age of 28 with just bootstrap capital, and you continued to bootstrap the business for years. Today, for just a short list of what Twelve has accomplished, you now have 102 global employees, offices in New York, London, Hong Kong, Paris. In 2020, you donated over $200,000 to nonprofits, 4 times Inc. Magazine fastest growing, twice Crain's New York City fastest growing. Financial Times 3 times. I know you want me to stop all these accolades, but 3 times fastest-growing women-owned companies. Take me back to that first year for just a moment. What did 28-year-old Katie Konovitz dream of then? What parts of your vision came true?

Well, that's a loaded question because I would say I'm not very good at talking about myself, but— or talking about it. And the irony is I'm still that 28-year-old Katie from a mindset perspective, the good, the bad, the ugly. But I think ultimately I set out to create a workplace that I wanted to go to. I set out to— I was working for a very successful distributor in New York after working at or starting my career in New York at Bloomingdale's in their buying office. And I just noticed and identified that my love affair of product could potentially dot-connect into something else. But I saw really an opportunity to create an elevated experience around the entire ecosystem known as marketing services or known as promo to some or merch or, you know, we like to call it, you know, we build experiences and merchandise for the world's most compelling brands. But ultimately that mindset of, hmm, I see an opportunity. I have kind of potentially the chutzpah or the self-identified hustle to get it, to figure out how to create a place in the ecosystem. And for me, 12 is my lucky number. That's always a question everyone asks us in a meeting. And for me, I always, identified I could double down on myself. So when I threw my hat in the ring, the reality was I closed my eyes and envisioned creating something that had the wings to fly well beyond me. But ultimately I recognized that it was going to be me harnessing and figuring out how to create that roadmap. So I still very much connect to the 28-year-old Katie with all the ambition and excitement excitement and fortitude to do something, I actually often remind myself that and let her know that it did get better along the way.

Right.

With all the highs, there have been many lows, but I could feel that day one energy sticks with us. It sticks with me personally, and I know Anna can connect day over day.

I think a lot of us look at Twelve NYC and we see this almost spontaneous success when in fact it has been a long journey. And you used a phrase that I love called year one mentality. Can you share the trade show story that you explained to me what year one and explain what year one mentality means for you and your team?

Well, I said, I mean, I steadfastly believe that every single success story that we're served, we read about, There's years of whether it was in that business, whether it was in other businesses, whether it was personal development, whether it was personal and professional development. There were years and years of bricks laid and thoughtfulness and hard scrappy work. I will never forget we went to our very first trade show in LA. It was the LA Gift Show, well beyond the budget we should have spent, ill-prepared, all the things that you, I don't even think that when I look back, like we didn't even really define the intention of what successful was going to mean, whether the trade show was gonna be good or bad. It was, we were just putting ourselves out there. And we stayed at Brandon's uncle who's a memorable fellow. And he, the morning of the trade show looked at me and said, "Well, good luck. It could be your first and last trade show ever." And I remember just kind of, I can still feel myself in that moment, like kind of not the kid with the balloon that just popped, but maybe like, hmm, is there a reality to this? Like, what am I doing and why am I doing this? Of course, then ferociously marched on and be like, this is gonna be one of many. But it did stick with me because I do move through that mentality. Day over day in the business, whether it's with a meeting, a meeting opportunity with a big client, a big, you know, a big order opportunity where we need to make it happen. The reality is, is that you have to perform day over day over day. And that mentality and that sort of, you know, grit is really what I think has helped and compelled us to consistently keep the drive going. But The reality is I think it's also evoked by a little fear and the fear in the eyes of that person embarking on a trade show that they literally couldn't afford. I think that, that, you know, fear lights a good fire under. And I think all of the, all of kind of those feelings of the possibilities, the unknowns and the opportunities really make up what I would define as that first-year mentality. But 17 years in, I think I look at it as 17-year mentality. You got to show up every single day.

Right, right. And as I mentioned in the intro, you are currently the Senior Vice President of Creative and Development, but you're employee number 1. You were there. And in a post on LinkedIn, you posted the original logo designed by Katie's artist mom, which we'll get to in a minute. And you wrote, quote, the evolution of branding is nothing compared to the evolution of the spirit, capabilities, and talent of Twelve NYC since 2005. I'm inspired, motivated, and deeply impressed by our global team every day. As the first employee 16 years ago, now 17 years, a starry-eyed, fairly disorganized 23-year-old, I've had a unique perspective and personally grown and evolved alongside Twelve NYC. It's been a gift. Give us a glimpse of the evolution of Twelve through your own personal journey. You probably started as VP of everything, as you do when you start out a business. Um, how did your role evolve with the company and what's your reflection on from that period to now?

Well, you're definitely right about VP of everything, including accounts payable, which was a huge mistake. You learn, you know, you begin when you begin at the beginning, you learn that hustle, like what Katie was speaking to, the grit, just that kind of need to always move forward. And you learn very quickly what you're good at, what you're not good at, which, you know, you have to continue to evolve as your career grows. You learn relationship building by necessity. For me, both on the client side and on the vendor side, you understand how important that is. And it's given me a very unique perspective, I think, at Twelve and in general. And it's something that I do talk a lot about now, both with my team, both with our clients, is I have actually been a part of every single step of the Twelve Method, of what we do, truly from ideation through delivery. And it has reinforced the importance to give our clients a really excellent end-to-end experience. So, and also, you know, the importance of one project needing to build into the next and building trust with your clients and just protecting it and how big of a part of your job that is. And also pushing capabilities. So what you learn every single day, you know, you, you, in the very beginning, it's like, okay, we have to learn how to say yes. And then you have to go out and figure out how to do it. Google played a big part of my learning. And so it's, yeah, my role at that point was learning how to say yes to clients and then eventually learning how to make it work for Twelve. So I did leave after 6 years. And when I left, we were a team of 2. When I returned, I was actually the 16th employee, which, you know, at that time I was, it was really a turning point for Twelve. It was a really exciting time to come back. And it was at that point that my role also within Twelve began to evolve kind of with that kind of rocket fuel growth that we've had since then. And I began to build out my team. So it's shifting that mindset from, you know, that lean, mean team of one where everything is kind of inside you and focusing more on leadership, on building that team, on building systems that scale and working with clients in more of kind of that larger way and growing just really learning how to grow and evolve a larger team of incredibly talented people that can now work across a variety of industries and categories. Yeah.

You had mentioned a few really critical things for new entrepreneurs there. One is you never really stop learning in this business. You learn a whole lot, but you're always faced with new challenges. And your early experience helped you, it sounds like, really appreciate how important every touchpoint in the business is from the client to the manufacturer, to the process. And that, that's an incredible experience.

Definitely. I think that's kind of a key to— I know my, my success is just seeing those connection points, the one to the next to the next, and valuing each one. Because that's how we are able to truly partner with our clients to offer that kind of 360-designed experience and make— it's, it's all important. The creative is important, but we all know that price points are important. We all know the delivery times are important. So bringing them all together is really a big part of my focus now.

Speaking of 12's difference and 12's distinction, Katie, can you explain something you're very passionate about? And you've used this phrase many times: end-to-end design. Break that down for us. What does that mean?

Well, first of all, I will, leveraging what Anna said in her, as she moved through her process of growth, learning to say yes did evolve into learning to say no too, which is equal, an equally important skill set. But, um, so diving into your question, what does an end-to-end designed experience mean? Well, at Twelvve, we are, and I will say, you know, as I started, you know, the business, as I mentioned, um, 17 years ago, I saw a real opportunity to put a designed lens on a lot of the categories across a marketing supported merchandise opportunity and budgets. And so for us, when we look at kind of who we are and our core ethos and really like what if I had to be definitive and what defines our DNA is really that end-to-end creative and designed experience, meaning your engagement with Twelve is from the initial seed to the doorstep. We are thoughtful, we are intentional, and we recognize the power of curating differentiation. And we see design as our, you know, superpower in that, you know, intention. And so, you know, when I look at our team, I mean, we are our team is truly, you know, every single individual plays a huge part in doing what we do successfully every single day. And when I look at really who succeeds and who thrives at Twelve, whether it's a short season or a long, it's really individuals that take a lens and really feel empowered to figure out how to layer in creativity, whether it's a compliance role, whether it is a true art team role, whether it's a creative product developer or someone on our ops team trying to figure out a supply chain challenge. Agility and the ability to really harness solutions within the power of being empowered through, you know, a creative perspective allows our team to really move through the nuances of, you know, building unique product all over the world through across multiple time zones and across multiple industries and client needs. And we do that really with this ethos and this kind of methodology that you take, you harness your creative superpowers in whatever jurisdiction you sit. And that really, I think for us is that leads our thoughtful dialogues, that leads our conversation and it leads our intention in kind of every single opportunity. Internally and externally.

I love the clarification you made around creativity often gets relegated to design only. And you're talking about engineering and manufacturing and critical thinking applied in very creative ways, no matter what your role is. That's where you've seen the success. Go ahead.

I was going to, you know, creativity is this like elusive word, like the creative team. Like, it's just like how we, you know, meaning that everyone else is not creative and just systems-driven. We have a new, you know, head of operations who's so passionate and excited and all in about NetSuite and the creativity she brings to being able to create dashboards and information and data to our teams is inspiring to watch. Like, that's creativity to me at its finest. So we were very careful to make sure that everybody recognizes that within their bevy of expertise is really like to lead with that passion and that ethos that design can be how you design your Monday board, how you design your, you know, it's really, it's far for us, it really stretches from end to end in everything that we do.

Yeah. As an example of working with clients, I know creativity and trends, for example, are very, very important to you. Can you share how you do something like your quarterly trends presentation to like a global beauty retailer as an example, what's your process like when you get to working with the client when it comes to creativity?

I think the beauty— I think what, what we do that's distinguishing and differentiating, at least for Twelve, is really our thoughtfulness around a curation of an individual experience per client really leads with, you know, us identifying and figuring out where we can add value to their equation. And so, you know, for If it's a global beauty retailer and they are on a quarterly system and they're constantly seeking newness, our teams are utilizing platforms, everything from WGSN to walking the streets to being able to really understand historically where their business has been successful and utilizing that to identify kind of the what's next. Really just dot connecting from a micro to a very macro level. I like to say about our business is we take a globalized approach in a very localized, hands-on way. And that is, that's from a supply chain perspective, but it's also from a creative and customer-facing approach. And so for us, the ability to harness trend isn't about just aggregating a bunch of macro trends. It's about truly figuring out what the intention, what the strategy is, and then helping to build tools that our clients can then use and go back and make informed decisions. And we sit at such a unique perch, you know, working across industries, across incredible clients, across, you know, a multitude of so many different experiences. So that aggregate really allows us to identify, you know, what is new and next, but when is a brand ready for that and what, flows best with their DNA and what are they hoping to— what's the business outcome that they're hoping for? And all of that gets kind of put in a cauldron and, you know, put into a soup. And so, I think almost labeling it trend forecasting almost doesn't give it enough meat and enough weight and enough flex. I think our teams do an exceptional job of listening and learning. And within that approach, figuring out how to add value to the equation every single day. So, whether it's trend, whether it's packaging design, whether it's, you know, helping to build out a packing plan, whether it's a sustainability end-to-end strategy, or whether it's literally just doing double the samples so that everybody on the team has an extra, you know, from the micro to the macro, from the localized to the global. I think we really try to go extra on everything that we do.

Yeah, I appreciate that, that you also are really stressing the fact that it's really not just about design and trends. It's about architecting an experience for that client based on their needs, where they're at and where they're growing. And it sounds like you also cultivate a very strong opinion on behalf of your clients, and that's why they turn to you as well, given this confluence of ideas that comes through the 12NYC team. Let me ask the real basic question, because this is— some folks may be wanting to know this is, Anna, what's the first thing you do when a client comes to you with a project or request? I mean, do you have like this initial design? You, you have as a team have worked on process a lot. And there's a phrase that you use called creating tangible magic. What's your process like? Can you give us a glimpse?

You know, kind of as we've touched on before, we, we do definitely have a method, but there is no one-size-fits-all solution for— because each client is different in terms of the kind of maybe the differences of like what they want versus what they need, working across the different industries that we do, it might be a slightly tweaked approach, but there's definitely a method that just sort of kind of drives our conversations when we begin diving in with a client. And it could be the beginning of a client relationship, it could be the beginning of a project. It's really about— first step would be defining intent. So kind of what Katie was speaking to in terms of what is this client trying to accomplish? Where do they need to go? I think Having a true understanding for our team of what the answer to that question is, is first and foremost. Where do they need to go? And then it's really our job to figure out how to get them there. So, and that brings together all of the elements that we work within. That means kind of assessing the landscape and bringing fresh ideas to them. That means understanding what their pain points are, what their challenges are, and then also working within the framework of our, you know, feet planted on the ground feasibilities that everybody works with. That's the, what's your budget? What's your timeline? What's your in-hand date types of questions. You know, those are kind of the walls in which we build the house that is a very successful project relationship partnership. But it is about understanding the client, what they need, what they want and where they need to go. And then, yeah, we kind of need to figure out the roadmap of how to get them there. And again, it's about that truly successful experience, not just a single project or a single conversation?

You know, I think one of the key differentiators kind of across our business model is that we do, you know, a fairly decent, pretty good size private label, you know, white label business. So for, you know, the world's most recognizable retailers, we, you know, get to work kind of across their portfolio of categories, helping to design and develop and deliver, you know, newness. Usually we like to say kind of icing on the cake, those categories that tick up in AUR, those categories that kind of what's now and next. And so within that, you know, within that framework, we've been able to build a lot of, you know, really powerful long-term partnerships with with different retailers, truly kind of adding that value and helping them to identify, you know, where they should be going in a lot of cases, or helping them to fine-tune SKUs that support their big launches. And that's on the saleable side of the business. And so, you know, we have built a relationship with a very recognizable boutique retailer, very— I would say there is kind of the categories are limitless. And it started out with one SKU that came to us literally looking for a water bottle and kind of didn't know where to put us. They're like, yeah, everything's— we love you. Everything's great. Like, we wouldn't know where do we get started? And that was one SKU about 6, probably 6 or 7 years ago. And now we're, you know, doing, you know, tens of tens of programs, you know, every single year, where Twelv is an integral part of the initial thought process, that kind of trend, harnessing trend all the way through development, packaging design, a creative fee, relationship with them and help to design packaging outside of our category scopes. We will also work with them on GWPs to support different launches. We've worked with them on unboxing and PR to support different category launches. So we've really been able to create, going back to end-to-end designed experience, it's our internal ethos, but it is our intention to do that within each client and to really figure out how to harness spend, how to be a part of the initial seeding, unboxing traditional PR spends, and how to then move it into marketing and help to be a part of the curation of like really well-done levers to support the intention of what the procurement and retail ecosystem is and be a part of that. And then help to support whatever corporate identification and marketing they're doing. So I think, you know, there are a couple of different retailers where I think we've been really successful having our value be seen and heard and capitalized on. And truly, I will say to you, and I say this about what we do and how we do it and and even doing things like this, it doesn't come naturally to me because I maybe my Midwestern roots, but I've always been like, do the work, put your head down, like don't talk about it. And I think that really is definitive of our, a lot of our successful relationships and partnerships is that we've shown up and done the work and they can rely on us and we've built the trust. And then they know that, you know, it's, it is, you know, from a partnership perspective that, you know, they can count on us over and over and over to consistently level up, raise the bar, elevate, tell the story.

I feel that energy from everyone on your team I've met. My favorite part of that story you just told is that all of that, all of that, that you grew to started with a water bottle. And that should be so encouraging to folks that are working with a potential client that has so much more potential and then used to begin to develop and create more more and more and more. So what a great story.

Um, every— I once had at a very, very big, big beauty company a long time ago, I got the big meeting. We went in there and she was very much like, so you think we're just gonna give you all the business? That was like— and I'm like, well, someday. I'm like, you know, but it's like, just give me a bone, throw me something. And it's true, the reality is, is that get the opportunity and then create in that experience, like at every touchpoint, like create the engagement, be very focused on that deliverable. And then something that did not come easy for me for so long was like, you know, ask for, ask for how, you know, be able to like, I have crawled through many a window or a door, a jar or a mouse hole or however it took to get in there. But really, like, the work will lead, but also create those ambassadors in the businesses that really— that you're adding value to their day-to-day equation, and they will sit around a table during a meeting and call your name out and advocate and advocate for you. So, but yeah, it starts— usually starts with a water bottle.

Yeah, I love it. Let's switch a little bit over to the topic of sustainability because you have become champions for your clients in there. In the world of sustainability. And I love, as we talked before, really your humility around this topic too. Like there's a lot about sustainability. And the minute I throw out the word, we all have attachments to that word. And it can be such a misleading word. But what is it we get wrong about sustainability? And how are you trying to correct this with clients? Katie, since we're talking with you, let's stay with you. And then I'll jump to Ana about that for some clarification.

I think that sustainability is like opening It's a big, broad topic with a big, broad— and for us, I think we, just like we kind of do everything else, I think we stepped back about 4 years ago and we're like, what does it feel like for us? Like, how is this even authentic? Like, I don't like to participate in any sort of, you know, stamps on things and, you know, trying to be a part of something unless I really think we can show up and really deliver and also do it in a way that feels kind of authentic to our teams, to our people, and to kind of to our mission. Like, we built out a whole compliance team really once we doubled down on where we wanted to go from a sustainability partnership. Then we started like building the teams out to be able to really deliver on it again, end to end. And so for us, sustainability, it's such— it is an ever-evolving, really, you know, it's an interesting space to be working in because there is no like, oh, I've reached the peak. You know, everybody's on the same climb. And that's the beauty in partnership from a client perspective is that we're kind of in it together. And a lot of times our categories are areas where they can— our clients can get some big sustainability wins, you know, because it takes a lot longer to change entire supply chains around like your core item. But these ancillary items are great ways that they can reimagine the packaging or they can rework how they're seeding and putting it out there under the guise of that sustainability lens. And so as we looked at the, you know, 4 years ago, we recognized and brought in a consultant who then, you know, joined us on a bigger capacity was that we started doing things internally, pulling levers, like, you know, doing clothing swaps and recycling programs and like really identifying that, like, that it mattered to us individually. Like, so you can't, we might be 102 people, but we're just an Anna and a Katie. And, and, you know, like we are each individual person. So when we, you know, So starting the journey with those initial seeds planted, we've really tried to work to be very humble in the sense of like, we're just doing our best. And tomorrow, today's best will be laughable in 2 weeks. But it's really, and I feel that the core opportunity really exists in partnership, in learning. Like we've built out this big, broad sustainability glossary. Like what do all these things mean that we have, that we provide access to our entire client base? We have, you know, a couple of individuals in the business in our compliance team and sustainability team that jump on calls with clients all the time and help them, you know, map out, you know, or solve a problem or answer a question or rework a testing strategy or whatever it's going to be. But what we've also learned and what we've also begun to really embed in our, in the growth of our partnerships is really recognizing where our brands brands are. Like our brand partnerships now really are created at the intersection of their values and our values. And so for us, sustainability is a great place that we're doing it authentically. Like we worked, you know, over this, you know, as I said, like, you know, past 4+ years, 5+ years to figure out how to, you know, position our business model to go from, one day at a time to really seeing true, true returns or true— we last year, 85% of our beauty programs that we did for big beauty had some sort of sustainability lever pulled on it, whether it was a materiality, whether it was a rework of a carton count, whether as a company we have, and we have done for 4 years, this offset carbon credits on everything that we ship around the world. We have, you know, built and building out a supply chain team sitting in Europe. Everything we do from a compliance and supply chain perspective is under the guise of European standards because it's, you know, they're a lot faster and further along in their compliance efforts around sustainability, but also just around compliance in general. It is, it is a never-ending conversation and it is which is exciting, and because there's a lot of possibilities to truly partner. At the same time, it can be daunting and overwhelming, and you don't feel like you've done enough.

Right. I love how you started with, this is going to be an intrinsic change in us, not just we're going to appropriate this on behalf of our clients. I love that you had to step back and go, this is going to be work from the inside out. When we were chatting before we were talking and while we were talking, you had a colleague send you a text or a message that said they found a term called Planet Positive. And I thought it was a really good snapshot of what kind of happens at Twelve NYC behind the scenes is this authentic moment, you know, where you're sharing these kind of ideas across from colleague to colleague because Planet Positive is a term we can all embrace and use and help educate clients. Anna, can you share an example of like a Planet Positive campaign that you've done inside of Twelve?

As Katie said, kind of at this stage, every project, every client, we are having a conversation about, you know, going above and beyond sustainability. I think Planet Positive is the way to think about it, because I think sustainability is limited in— it brings to mind the material, it brings to mind, you know, the sourcing aspect, which, which you kind of touched on before. Planet Positive, I think, is bigger. It's about the kind of the bigger overarching larger story of that encompasses things like usability and reusability. So, you know, it's the full process, I think, where you're starting with the ideation of what are products that will be important to people that will be used and reused and reused again, and then moving into the sourcing aspect Also thinking about things like the way that we, you know, do our packing when we're shipping internationally, or what is the packaging around every piece of this. And thinking, I think Planet Positive to me is just thinking about that full story from beginning to end and thinking about what the effect will be, not just say the moment that the fabric is created or the elements that go into the printing process. It's about what will be the story that we're telling in, you know, 2 years, 5 years. Like what is that third, fourth life of of this item and making sure that it's all, it all matters. So yeah, there's a lot of stories we could tell.

Have you felt the client has changed since the pandemic? And if so, how? Katie?

Oh, I mean, I think everything has changed since the pandemic. I mean, if you haven't, then I mean—

Wow. Wow. Good on you.

I mean, you were already working with very sophisticated clients with high design demands and all those, but then how has that changed since then?

Well, I think the value of what we do and how we do it has never been more relevant. I think the value of incredible relationships as we all, you know, missed that in-person meeting and really had to double down on finding other meaningful ways to drive partnership and drive trust and all of the, you know, pillars that make up a long, thoughtful, intentional relationship. But I also think the opportunity has never been so crystal clear that clients and our clients specifically, you know, where they sit in there are, you know, held to ensuring that the values, you know, the corporate values, the values of the bigger company are executed on every single day. And so for a pillar like sustainability, it allows us, you know, to really intersect our values and our ethos, you know, with theirs and kind of create that, I think, just more intrinsic, more layered, and more meaty partnership. And, you know, as we look at things are still feverishly happening at, you know, such a quick cadence and quick pace and our ability to be always rooted in agility, our ability to be owning a design and development process that allows us to create other options around supply chain hurdles and other options around geopolitical challenges has never, I think, been more relevant and important in the eyes of our clients. And I have been through, you know, in 17 years, many different challenges in running this business. And I think obviously the last 2.5 years have been extraordinary on that list. But we really just leaned into who we are and what we do. And that really has been our North Star and guiding light through that. And I think it's, it's, that's resonated with our client base. I hope that's the intention and we'll keep working at it.

Right. I have a sidebar question that's going to sound so pragmatic in light of everything that we've talked about, but it's very important because a lot of businesses are going through changes in their organizations. Anna, how is your team structured? Just make this quick, but do you work in pods or designers working side by side with creative directors? What's that day-to-day rhythm look like for you?

Yeah. Yeah. We work in, in teams that are grouped together more along the lines of capability, say, than industry. And we work in tandem with the different parts of our process. So our art partner, we are a pod of art partners, creative and development, and operations team members. And we work together day in, day out, talking all day long when we, about projects. So operations partners are involved in projects from the very beginning. Art partners are seeing the outcome of the work, so they know what to put into the next project for that client. So it's, It's very collaborative in the sense of people are allowed to kind of take ownership of their piece of the pie, and we listen to each other to kind of come up with the best solutions. So, separated by that capability, but always working together.

I know we could have a whole conversation around that, but I want to respect your time. Katie, one quick thing too. We've seen a lot of acquisitions and mergers, and I'm just jumping to another topic entirely here. Are mergers and acquisitions in your future? And if so, what's important to you as you seek to align with other companies?

Well, it's definitely like I think you— we just talked about change. It's definitely a time of expeditious change. And what I've realized in business, that's always a central part of. But for, for us, as we look at our next chapter of growth, you know, we are examining what that looks like and what sort of potential partnership that we would be interested in, what what type of partners could add value to our, you know, emerging skill sets or verticals that we're interested in continuing to pursue. And ultimately, we're a business built by talent, so what sort of talent acquisitions could we— or talent alignments, you know, could we lean into that would just continue to enhance our skill set? And ultimately, it's, um, potentially an opportunity for whether it's talent or a team or, you know, a larger company to lean into all of our magic as well.

Yeah. Okay. Great point. I love that. In a sense, I have a question for you because personally you're carrying on this really beautiful design heritage in that your mom's a fine artist who once was in illustration and design business. You can see this impact of your heritage on the work that you do through Twelve. Who do you follow for influences and brands, people who inspire you?

That's a, that's a loaded question. Loaded question. It's funny because when you're— I have 4 kids, so I've been able to like think of things through the lens of kids. And when you are a kid, you see things for face value. It's like, isn't everyone's mom a painter? You know, like, right. And, you know, your experience is whether you're realizing it, you know, really translating. My mom has always— our home was always so beautiful, not with like an— oh, not in an overdone way, just in a way that she would pick things up along the way or knew how to use color, or always, you know, things that were my great-grandparents or whatever, always just filled with layers and life and always truly authentic, you know. And you wouldn't walk— ever walk into my house growing up and like that would be replicated 4 doors down. So I think that has that sensibility of like creating and like showing up in the world as putting your own stamp on things was definitely just something I saw like at face value growing up. I mean, I obviously go down many Instagram, you know, follow so many unique individuals. I live in New York City and pre-COVID, we're traveling 250,000 miles a year. In a post or a current COVID world, not as much, but I really recognize the value in being immersive. Like I love to sit outside and listen to conversation and watch people go by. And I am someone who loves the energy of a city and very fueled by that. But honestly, Also, we have hired and had the opportunity to work alongside some of the most incredible talent at Twelve, and I'm inspired every single day by this team. If you saw what goes on in our Slack ecosystem, you'd be inspired too, Bobbie. It is just— the team is constantly in a process of leveling up and elevating. Figuring out how they can evolve the story, push the story, try a new tool or a new product. And so for me, that's a consistent and constant source of inspiration and joy.

I love it. We have 1 minute left, so this will have to be brief, but let me ask you this final question. Anna, what are you excited about the most for Twelfth's future?

I'm excited about the fact that it isn't defined yet. I think that that's one, it kind of speaks to a lot of the things that we've discussed today and points we've touched on of we are an agile, excited, passionate team of people who are always looking for the next way to, you know, connect, help our clients connect. And yeah, the future is big and bright and it does feel like an evolving world and we can't wait to be a part of it.

Katie, how about you? Last word.

Oh, last word was, I mean, to echo what Anna said, the possibilities are endless. I truly always feel that way. I think that we have had so many chapters in our business, but it's really all led us to, to this moment. And within this moment, this period of real, like, quantifiable, palpable change, we are leaning into it and figuring out a way to harness it and use it for growth, use it for scale, but ultimately ensuring that we're creating, you know, a workplace that, you know, people feel that they feel the growth. They fundamentally feel that there's an exciting path forward. And ultimately that resonates within our client base, within the categories we touch, within our supply chain. And the possibilities are endless and we're here to harness them.

Katie, Anna, thank you for your time today. There are so many folks that are interested in your story and watch you with admiration. Thank you for being an inspiration to us all and for being so humble about the hard work and your roots and everything else. So thanks for sharing your time with us today.

Yeah, everybody, everyone starts somewhere. And the reality is, is we started the conversation by talking about that first-year energy. That's the energy that truly lifts us up and sends us into new and scary opportunities, but don't ever lose it. And the beauty of what we've done is found our lane, but we'll continue to evolve that lane and we'll look back on this conversation and see it with a lot of probably who knows where we'll be in 2 years.

We can leave it at that. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkuCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SkuCast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.