Episode 253: Creating the Shark Tank Experience with Tom Rector, ScreenBroidery

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official special podcast of Common Skew. Tom Rector and his team at ScreenBroidery grew over 143% 2021 to 2022, and along the way they created a pretty special experience, a Shark Tank experience, bringing together clients and suppliers. Now, you might be familiar with a traditional industry end-user show But if you're new to the business, an end-user show is a mini trade show event hosted by a distributor. The supplier sets up their booth and the distributor's clients are able to walk through the show to get ideas. But Tom decided he wasn't keen on doing just an end-user show and he wanted to create something special. So he flew in his top clients and his best supplier partners and created this Shark Tank experience that we'll talk about today. They expected to net $450,000 in sales from this experience, but post-event, they're currently at $620,000 in sales and growing. We talk about this, what's driving their phenomenal growth, and because Tom started his business during recession back in 2008, I asked Tom's advice for entrepreneurs during uncertain economic times. Plus, we talk about something he calls storytelling land. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, Chief Content Officer at Commscue. Right now, as I'm recording this, it's Wednesday, January 4th. We're just a few days before SKUCon and PPAI Expo. If you are going to the PPAI Expo in January, we would love to connect with you there and we have multiple opportunities to do so. On January 9th, we're hosting CommonSKU University. It's where you can learn all about the platform, including presentations led by myself and my CommonSKU colleagues, Aaron Couturier, Dave Schultz, Aaron Burleigh, Katherine Graham, and our entire expo team. You can also visit us on the show floor at booth 57-17, or join us for a private session in the SKU Suite for a one-on-one chat with our team. But don't worry about remembering these details because we have a beautiful website that features all of this at commonsku.com/expo. That's commonsku.com/expo. And if you're not going to Expo, we hope to see you virtually on January 19th for SKUCon Virtual, the conference for innovators, explorers, and dreamers in the promotional products industry. We hope you'll rally your team to join us. You can learn more and register at skucon.com/virtual. Today's episode is brought to you by Commenscue, the work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commenscue.com. Now here's my chat with our good friend Tom Rector. Tom, thanks for joining us, my friend.

Thank you, Bobby. It's nice to see you again.

Yeah, yeah, you too, you too. You hosted 7 of your best customers in Indianapolis due to something quite novel. You hosted your own Shark Tank experience to hear product pitches from our industry's best suppliers. Now, before we get into the behind the scenes and, you know, how you put together and all that, what was the basic concept?

So it's— this is our 14th year in business, and I've always wanted to do some type of an end user show, but I was always— I've always been freaked out to do an end user show because I'm afraid putting in all this time and all this effort, you have all these suppliers that come and then you don't have any customers that show up, right? That's always, that's always been my fear. And, and it's such a, it's such a common thing. Like you see it around the industry quite a bit, those end user shows. It was like, I also didn't want to do the same thing that everyone else is doing. Like I wanted to be different. I wanted to have some value and some purpose. Like I wanted, if people are going to spend this amount of time collectively to participate in something like this is like there needs to be some reward or some value that comes out of it. So I've always had that in the back of my mind. And, and we have suppliers that come and call on us all the time when we do our— with all of our sales reps, and we go through the spiel. And we're sitting in one of those, and it— I just kind of had this idea. It's like, I wonder if we could create some type of an environment where the supplier, instead of trying to sell to us and try to get us to just pitch products, which is at ScreenBroider, we don't pitch products, right? We find the need and then we find solutions that cover the need. So I was like, I wonder if I can, if we can create a situation where the suppliers can just talk directly to our customers. And then, and then actually the things that they're trying to show us is that they can get right down and dirty with right directly with our customer. So we kind of toyed on that a little bit, and then, and then the Shark Tank ideas came up. It's like, hey, what, what if we could get some of our top customers who are not in Indiana, by the way? So it's not, it's not like they can just drive here, which is, which another reason that makes that end user show a little more difficult. It's like, what if we get some of our top customers here to Indiana, invite our supplier partners to to come and we can create a situation where our customers who are actually buying things can actually engage with those suppliers and actually buy something. So then the Shark Tank ideas came out. It's like, what if we could make our customers the sharks and then bring our suppliers into the tank and then let them really work with our customer with the products that they present and sell. And create an experience that is different and powerful and memorable. So that's kind of where it started. And then we kind of just kept escalating it and scaling it from there. So what it ended up being was this real, these were the purposes that we had in mind. It was like, yeah, we want to do an event where our customers can see products and make some buying decisions. In real time. But it was also an opportunity for us to— we don't get to see our customers as often because they're not as close. So a chance where we can get some FaceTime with our customers, really show our appreciation and thank them. So we had some, you know, some extra things that we threw in as just as a thank you for being a great customer. But then also to our supplier partners, like, and we really see them as partners. And I think it's really true is that Without them involved in this process, we don't really have, we don't really have much to sell, right? So we really, we really see them as true partners in our, in our company. So there's a way for us to, to give our supplier partners an opportunity to have a different experience in something like this. So, and to put them in front of our customer is not something they're used to.

That's true. Did that, did that— so each supplier presented their best idea and then the sharks, or the customers in this sense, voted on it?

Yes.

Well, how many suppliers?

Okay, so, so, so we, so we, we picked our customers that and we did this in September. So we were kind of gearing up for the holiday season and we knew that these customers were going to make holiday purchases, but then also had other projects where so we, we pre-qualified our customers. We and then, and then we knew what their, we knew what their projects were. Our salespeople did, went through the sales process with their customers at that point. And then we gave that information to the suppliers and then we gave the suppliers based on some product categories. So we didn't have all of the tumbler suppliers that were there. We chose 1 or 2 within each of those categories. And then at the end of the day, our customers were building holiday kits for their employees or for their customers or upcoming expos or projects that they have in the works that they knew that they were doing. We pre-qualified them with an actual budget. So they were coming ready to spend money, right? So, and then when we were able to bring the suppliers in and then giving them the information of what our customers were looking for and knowing that they have this amount of money to spend, then it really got real, right? So they now know is that, hey, if I do well, I'm gonna walk out with a purchase order today. And it actually happened, right? We had actually had that where making deals during that day, knowing that these are the things that they were looking to purchase for whatever project that they had coming up. So, so now we can now tie dollar amounts and metrics to our event. And that's amazing.

Also, I was, I was impressed at how you actually brought in the strategic part of it. You didn't— it wouldn't just everybody show up and just present a bunch of ideas. It wasn't that randomized. It was very strategic.

Yeah, yeah. And, and it came with a purpose too. Like, it was— yeah, like, these suppliers are here, not only are they great partners of ours, but they have products that fit the needs of our customers. So it makes sense that we kind of match those folks up.

Yeah. How many suppliers and how many customers did you end up having?

We flew in 5 of our— they weren't our top customers, but in our top echelon of customers. So we had 5 of those, and then we had 2 people from each of those each of those companies. They, they were the sharks. And then we had 12— we had 12 supplier partners that were there, and those 12 were the ones that actually made pitches. They actually presented. Then we also had some supplier or some, some apparel suppliers that were there and some box suppliers for kits, some box suppliers that were there, and they didn't, they didn't pitch, but they were— they had tables set up so that when we're during the breaks, as we're changing the setup for the next pitch, our customers can then go and peruse some apparel suppliers and, and ask some questions to the others.

Here's a clip from Screen Embroidery's Shark Tank.

Hello Sharks, I'm Kelly Yarbrough, Chief Wisdom Officer, also known as Socrates for SOC 101.

Thomas, thank you so much for having us. This is a first-class event. I am here today seeking as many orders as possible. Something coming up at the end of this year, first of next year. We're introducing a new style, but we're going to take it to the next level. We're going to light it up. What?

Hey, thank you. So just all the different options that are out there for our employees and for our customers are limitless, and screen embroidery has definitely introduced me to the world. My name is Vince. I am in the marketing operations department, and I currently work at Gong. Ah, best product. I think something that really stood out was the iridescent glasses and the glassware.

Love the Shark Tank, love the Sharks. I think the most significant thing for me is just knowing how qualified those Sharks were.

I mean, those guys came here, you know, with the means to write some orders and do some business, and they're just great people.

So I love how qualified they were. It was very focused, it was very purposeful.

Love the Shark Tank.

Just a super fun event. I've never done anything like this. It's been a super fun experience meeting the staff and getting to to know both the Sharks and all the staff at ScreenBroidery. It's been a home run. I think I swam. I think I swam pretty well.

You just saw the Shark Tank experience from ScreenBroidery.

What did you see suppliers bring differently to this experience than, say, a normal product presentation?

Well, one thing that was important to me when, when we selected our suppliers is that in other things that I've, that I've learned within the industry, when they do end-user shows or when they invite suppliers to expos and events that that they put on is that they have the suppliers underwriting the cost of the event. Whereas I don't, in my mind, I don't think that is a good practice, right? Because we look at these suppliers as they're our partners, it's like, hey, we are getting a huge benefit out of them being here and spending their time and money.

Great, great point.

To be here with us. So we didn't charge our suppliers anything to participate in this. All we asked is like, hey, you just cover your cost to get here and hotel costs. And then if you wanna give our, if you wanna pass out samples and things like that, like that's all on you, but there's no other expectation. And then ScreenBroidery picked up all of the costs for everything that was a part of this, a part of this event because of that concept. It's like, you're all our supplier partners, we're benefiting more of for you being here than you're benefiting from being here. So we wanted, yeah, we wanted to make sure that they recognize that and as a way for us to thank them for being our, for being a part of our process as well. So, but they, what was so unique with, with how those presentations happened is that, I mean, they truly were nervous. Like, you could see that this is something that is just out of their element when they're making these pitches. Right. And not knowing. And we tried to make it fun and exciting too. So we had all of our sharks had, we have these little hype buttons. So it's like that air horn type thing. Yes. You hear the DJs and they'll play. So we had— they all had those, those hype buttons. So when they heard things or saw things that they liked, they would hit that hype button, which would then give the feedback back to the suppliers that were presenting to make them feel a little more comfortable or know that they're on the right track.

That's cool.

They did or said something that was cool.

How did your clients react post-event?

It was, it was, it was very interesting. Our— the— we, we took out all the notches to, to how, like how we put this event on. Like we, we really rolled out the red carpet for these folks. So, I mean, we flew them in, but we also met them at the airport. The sales reps had signs with their names on it. We had limos that took them back to the hotel. And they, we sent, we sent out hype kits prior to the event. When they checked, when they got into their hotel room, there was another like huge swag package that was, we, you know, we really went the extra mile. Because we wanted to thank them along the way, but we also wanted them to experience what it's, what it's like to get promotional products and to have a really cool and exciting unboxing experience. And one of the things at ScreenBroider that we really hold true is we call it, we call it the 7-star process. I kind of stole it from the guys at Airbnb, but it's, it's everything that you do is typically on on a 5-star scale, right? So it's like your Uber rating's a 5-star, Google rating's a 5-star, but it's like, what does it take to get to the 6 and the 7-star? And that's doing the things that are unexpected. Those are the things that your customer didn't expect you to do that went well above and beyond. In Scream Warrior, we call that storytelling land. It's like when we get to storytelling land, we've done something special. We did something that— We did something that no one could ever think of, or a customer had no idea that we were gonna do. And almost everything that we did in the Shark Tank event was in that 6, 7, even 8-star level that, I mean, they were just, when they really thought we were done at dinner and we had given them all this stuff and they had such a great day and they had some awesome conversations, then we give them custom-branded AirPods that were wrapped in wrapping paper with their logo on it, right? So then they're like, yeah, what? No, I'm like, this is just like— it's like, wait, there's more. Um, that's amazing. It was such a powerful experience on the gifting side and on the branding side is that they're still talking about it. Like, they're putting it all over social media. They're still calling us and they're like, hey, remember those things at Shark Tank? Can we do do whatever it was, right? Yeah, they're still talking about it. But, and then it's— and so not only were the things that they saw that, that were things that they— the products that they put into their projects that they were working on, but also they got to learn more about our processes and more about our capabilities. The things that we just assumed that they had known and they had no idea that we could do. Or how does a kitting project come together and what does it take like, we can— you can do 12,000 pieces of it for a kit in, in less than 8 days? Oh yeah, that's no problem, right? So things like that, they had no idea. But what also started to become cool that I didn't expect to happen was that those sharks started to network and started to share ideas and talk about what it— what things that screen embroidery did for them within their company. And it was like, what? Oh wow. Yeah. And what do you have on your company store? Oh, you guys are doing that on your company store? And is that something that we could do? And then the next thing you know, we have this whole secondary conversation with our customer on things that we just assumed that they had known or that, or maybe that they, we didn't know that they were interested in. And now we could open up this whole new floodgate of ideas and experience.

That's phenomenal because it's really, it's really hard to cross-pollinate ideas to clients sometimes because they box you into a certain category or because they, in their own mindset, they didn't know that capability even existed, even though you've told them. So, wow.

And it kind of spurred that, that interaction kind of spurred another idea that we have that we're going to try to implement next year, and is to do a customer sounding board type of a committee. So like a committee of customers where they can, they can not only share ideas amongst themselves, but we can then take them ideas of, hey, here's a problem that we're trying to solve. Here are some products that we think might solve that problem. What do you guys think? Do you think we're on the right track? Or here's something that, that so-and-so customer did. It's like, this was really cool. It was like, what other ways can we do that across, across industries and demographics?

What do you think you and your team took away from this experience? What did you think you learned doing this? I mean, I'm sure the net effect of this was just profound in terms of what your team realized they're capable of, for one thing. And then what was the net effect? On them.

And what was cool for our team is that they got to see the power of the things that we do. Like this, the just the look on our customers and our suppliers' faces and the praise that they got is like, that's not some of the, I mean, the salespeople see that a lot more than the other parts of your team. But I mean, we have order managers and marketing people and graphic designers that they don't get to interact at that level with some customers and suppliers. So to actually see something come to light and something that was very well thought through and put together and to hear the praise for it really started to strengthen that culture and strengthen that, that the mentality of, hey, we're on the right track with something. And also because we've talked about the 7-star customer experience and why that's so important and to see results for it now, like the that they actually got to see the result of what it means to the customer when we're doing these types of things. So it starts to really reinforce what it means to have a really powerful customer experience and what it means for the bottom line when we're on the right track and we're customer-focused and we're mission-focused rather than just doing the status quo.

Speaking of bottom line and just net gain, what you're so good at tracking, are you tracking sort of what this revenue impact was immediately? And then as you're moving on.

Oh yeah. Right. So we had to start with some, we started with some goals. So we pre-qualified all the customers and collectively it was going to be about $450,000 in sales for that day. We're currently at $620,000. In sales. And we have some projects that won't close until January because they have— they were, they were purchasing things for this first quarter of next year, and that will push us over the $750,000 mark.

Wow, that's phenomenal.

We probably invested $35,000 to $40,000 in it, and to turn $750,000 in revenue, not a bad day.

Yeah, that's phenomenal. Phenomenal. Congratulations to you and the team. It's also an epic event that you pulled off and a heavy, heavy lift. So what an amazing experience.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, I also, since we're talking about this phenomenal growth, I mean, you, you've actually had this amazing growth this year. ScreenBroidery was recently featured in Indianapolis Business Journal's Fast 25 list with over 91% revenue growth in 2021 and 2022. Your revenue scaling at like a record pace. Tell me about your growth year to date, like how much are you up over 2021?

We're currently sitting at 143% for this year. Wow.

What do you attribute that to?

And we're probably going to see it increase just a little bit this last month of the year too. We're just at record pace right now. And it's really coming from several different things, like our capabilities for sure, like because we have the ability to do e-commerce. We build e-commerce sites in-house. We have a full creative development team and fulfillment and kitting in-house. We have an integrated on-demand production process that we've built. Like those things obviously help, but I think what happened within the last few years is that we've really stepped back and recognized a lot of things. One is like we've recognized that we're in a competitive marketplace and to operate in a competitive marketplace, you have to, you have to be very mission-focused and you have to have a very cutting-edge sales process. And we've spent a lot of time working on that sales process and how do you ask the right questions and how do you qualify the lead? How do you find the problem for your customer? Like if you can actually find the real problem for your customer, you've got it made. Like now you've really done something special. So we've really spent a lot of time refining those processes and discussing those processes and they're working really, really well. And we're now able to onboard sales reps and teach them this sales process and break them of all these bad habits and, and put them out and, and we send them to leads and help them qualify those leads. But then we're just building accounts left and right now. Yeah. And, and I think that, I think that another big thing that's leading to our success is that we've been, we've put company culture first and we've, we've created a team that, that functions very, very well together. So we've kind of, and we, and we And we've always had a great team, but we really started to identify as like, what is it that makes our people work well together within our structure and within our organization? So we've identified just like, what is it that's in their DNA that allows them to work well together? So it's things like their work ethic and they have empathy and they have goals in life and they have purpose in life. They're not afraid to ask questions. So they're curious and they want to learn and they want to know more. And then we started hiring based off of those those culture-based things. But then it now allows our team to work well together and go in the right direction because we all have the same types of, they have the same types of capabilities that we know are successful within our organization. And those things that are in their DNA are different from their personality. Like everyone has a different personality.

Interesting. Yeah.

So, but these are things that I always relate it back to like a sports team. Like, you know, when you have a basketball team that has a lot of talent, like the Brooklyn Nets is probably a good one. Like, they, they have, they have Kevin Durant and they have Kyrie Irving, and so they're— and those guys can put up some points, but they're— they don't play well together because they're, they're all ball hogs, right? So they have a dysfunctional team, so they can't operate as, as a team, even though that they're good and they win some games. But they— there's just something about it that makes them when you watch them, it's just like you're just uncomfortable because you can tell that they just don't match. They just don't work together. So we look at it as like, because customer experience is so important to us, is that really taking care of our culture and taking care of our people ultimately has an impact on our customers and how their experience with us and knowing that that matters. So if we can take care of our culture and we can really define our culture, we can cultivate it and make it stronger.

Speaking of team, you just added a sales and marketing manager and a creative director to your team. You don't see the role of creative director often enough in our industry, so it's surprising and admirable hire there. Why did you feel like you needed a creative director and what's your vision for all that? It looks like you're investing energy in many places, but in your creativity in particular.

Yeah, so, well, in our sales process, we've defined like We teach our sales reps how to go out and sell and what things to do within the process and how to ask the right questions and those types of things. But we've also recognized is that salespeople are good at selling, but what they're not good at is the creative side and the order processing side of stuff. And they shouldn't be in heat pressing things together and they shouldn't be packing and picking things off the shelf, right? So we want our salespeople to do what they're they're best at, and that's sell. But then that means that within that process, then once they've unqualified leads, we need to offer some really creative solutions to fill those needs, which then now enters our creative director and our creative department. And we're even expanding it into more. But in our process, our sales reps take the information that they've learned from the customer's project and the customer's need, and then they take it to our creative development team and they're the ones that help us cultivate products and pitch products and create pitch decks. And that concept has allowed us to do some really, really awesome things. Like we're doing some really powerful things and projects that are getting attention. And then it's also leading to our growth is that those projects are getting so much attention that then when our customers share that, their network then asks the question, hey, where'd you get that from? Then our customers are always so genuine. It's like, we get that from ScreenBroidery. Like, here's the person you need to contact. And then the next thing you know, we have a whole new massive account.

Yeah. Random question, but Aaron Kucherer told me that you landed a client because of CommsKeys Portals. How did Portals— I was real curious about this massive growth. I had two questions. You have— how much of that is new logo acquisition versus growing clients? And then my other question is, can you tell us a little bit about why you think the portals help land new business?

Oh yeah, so communication is so important, right? Especially in today's world. Those— the portal allows us to better communicate with our customers because we can, we can, we can centralize all of the information in the projects that our customer is working with. So We had a customer that came to us and he's like, they were, so in a competitive marketplace, we talked about, hey, we need to recognize what kind of a market that we're in. Well, we know we're in a competitive marketplace. In a competitive marketplace, that means that all of your customers were working with someone else before they started working with you, right? So our customer, our now customer was working with someone else and they're like, we just, we didn't communicate very well. It was hard for us to get like previous orders and we were missing invoices and we had all these things that, we needed to have in one central location, and they just didn't have a solution for that. So we, I mean, now have the— we have those customer portals is where we can centralize all of that information, and we can— our marketing teams can then add common SKU shops and common SKU market material and put those into those portals. And they didn't even ask for things like that, but once we started doing that, they're just like, wow, we can share ideas now across customers, and we can share ideas across across easily across sales reps and centralize that stuff so they can have access to it at any time that they want and as much as they want. That's adding, it was adding such value to our customer base, but now customers that haven't experienced things like that are now coming on board looking for those types of solutions.

Are you seeing more new logo acquisition this year than you've seen in the past? I know part of that has to do with a very strategic effort on your part because you're very strategic focused.

Yes, we have. And we have, I bet we have 1 to 2 very good qualified leads coming in every week. And our biggest challenge is what do we do with these leads? I mean, they're very good leads. It's like we just don't have enough salespeople to pass these leads over to because we're just, we just max out on our time, which is why we're in such a high growth mode with with hiring right now. Yeah, but most of, most of, I would say this year, 40 to 50% of it is all new business. Wow. New accounts. And we have, we've, this past 3 months, we've, we've brought on some major accounts. I mean, major accounts, probably $3 to $5 million worth of new business just in this past couple months that hasn't even started, hasn't even started firing yet. Like they're just, they're just now getting onboarded.

That's amazing, Tom.

Truly is.

And I've known you for a while and I've, and I know you've always, always been incredibly strategic and very purpose-driven. And you have also built an amazing team. Shout out to Gabe and Mark and the whole crew and the folks I don't even know. You're a big investor in your team. You're a big investor in your team technology. Talk a little bit right now. You're seeing some phenomenal growth, whereas some entrepreneurs might be struggling here in the fourth quarter and we're heading into uncertainty in the economic A year ahead, not bad. I don't know that it's bad or good. I don't know that I certainly can't determine that. I just know it's uncertain. Talk to that entrepreneur in the business who's struggling right now, or perhaps they're not struggling to grow. Maybe they're, they're not growing as rapidly as they want. From your experience, where would you encourage them to invest their time and money and talent for future growth right now?

I, I would say a couple of things is like most folks in our industry are they have an entrepreneurial type mindset, and it's our superpower, right? It's what's in our DNA, and it's where we started a small business from nothing, right? There's that small sense in all of us within the industry.

And did you start that in a recession, Tom?

I did. And which makes an uncertain economy that's coming up a little more interesting because I've already kind of weathered this twice now, really, right? It's like, right. And, but now we— and it's kind of cool going into something like that now because I have so many more resources than what I had back then. Like, in, in 2008 when I started, it was— I had a— I started it with a credit card, right? And it was just me. And, and we— and I didn't have, like, like lots of reserves, bank reserves of cash, and you didn't have lines of credit, and you didn't have assets that you could use. You didn't have other people that you could count on. So you really learn so much when you start, when times are tough, because it's either you sink or swim. Because you either work, you work yourself through it and you learn how to get out of it. But those lessons along the way are things that when times are good and the sun is shining, is like, wow, now I can really do something fun. Like, because this is, this is way easier than it used to be. And I— it's not as hard to, to find new customers because they're willing to spend money now. I don't have to like really like engage in and, and get— that's a great point— when I have, have no experience behind me. So now things are so much different.

Um, yeah, I think you answered the question, but you're— you've always been a glasses half full entrepreneur, but you also, like some folks would say, in the early days it was easier because there was less to lose. Do you feel— but you just answered and said no, actually you have more at your disposal. You have more resources. Is that how you feel heading into these kinds of conditions?

I think also what happened during, like, to start in a recession and start when times are tough is that you, you always, you, you know what the downside can be. Right? And it's always in the back of your mind is like, hey, this, if this doesn't work, these are the threats that can prevent me from doing what I want to do. So when you, when you have that and you, when you have that as, as a background and at least as a, as like the shadow that's behind you is that you, you then build these up, all of these protections around you as you, as you start to become successful and as you go forward. So I've always been investing in the reserve accounts ever since we started, or since we started making money. I started putting money away for rainy days and for uncertainties and buying assets and being as efficient as possible and making sure that we're not overspending on overhead before we really need to. So I've always been conservative in that. In that aspect, probably because I started during a recession when times were tough. So I know what, yeah, I know what it's like when, when, when things aren't as easy as what they could be. But what, but have done, have done that is that I can now fund our organization for almost, almost an entire year with not having any, any revenue coming in. And, and there's no account that is too big that we can't ever fund because we have all of this all of these resources at our disposal. So when times get tough, we start to get louder and we start to get more engaged in because the noise starts to settle. And this is our time to rise from the top, rise to the top, because we now can start to shine because we don't have to slow down. We actually will start to ramp up. And when times are tough, like that's when people really start to innovate and that's when new technologies are invented and people get smarter.

Great point. I just— yeah, I just, I just read a quote from an F1 driver who said, you know, it's hard to pass 16 people when it's sunny, but it's easy to pass them when you're— when it's raining. Yeah, it's easier to pass them when it's raining.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tom, last question for you. I think I'm going to— I'm not going to assume I know the answer to this because the industry is so radically different than when you entered it. 2008. How do you feel about the future of the industry compared to when you first started?

I'm, I've always been very bullish on the industry, but it's because we have such hard workers. I mean, I think work ethic is so important within our world, is that we may not always do it the right way and we may not always be perfect on the processes, but we are an industry that is willing to work hard and work our way through whatever it takes to get it done, right? And that's what makes me bullish on what the future will look like. I know we're heading to some uncertain times and what those might threaten the industry with, but I think our people will persevere through it. And I also think that now more than ever is that physical marketing products are more important than they've ever been. They, they now can tell a whole different story with, with a feeling that other marketing channels can't do. And, and I think that is— I think that's becoming more and more apparent with the technologies that are within the industry and how we can produce things and how we can personalize things and how we can, how we can re— really tie an an idea and a product to a message and to a person at an individual level. Like we're even doing things where our team, through our website or through our e-commerce stores, our customer can type out a note or a message to a customer and our team will handwrite it to get that personal touch that goes with the product itself. Like those things are becoming much more important, but it also makes the product that's going with it so much more memorable and so much more powerful. So that's what keeps me bullish on it. And I think in 2008, there was, when I first started, I felt like there was a lot of more old school type of thinking within the industry. And I feel like that has now started to change. I think the innovators have really challenged us to beat that status quo and to think differently in that. These ideas can actually be successful because we're seeing the rewards of what's coming with these new things that we've been able to produce and the eyes of what it is to do something that is so different and so cool and so challenging.

Yeah. Tom, you and your team have always inspired me, and I just wanted to say thank you. Thanks for encouraging us. Thanks for inspiring us. Thanks for speaking to that entrepreneur out there and sharing openly your ideas ideas and, and what you're doing. So I appreciate you so much, my friend, and thanks for joining us on SkewCast.

Thank you so much, Bobby. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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