Episode 268: How an Effective Rebrand Strategy Can Achieve Organizational Harmony

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skewcast is the official podcast of Common Skew. Chameleon-like was established in 1998 by, and I quote, by two French guys that believed in going left when everyone else was going right. Now, you know, Chameleon-like from their stylish journals, their econo-luxe mailers and packaging and more, but it's always incredibly designed and impeccably tailored. I know Chameleonlike from visiting both their Gilroy and Houston facilities, an astonishing hands-on group of craftsmen and artisans. Pierre Martichoux founded Chameleon Books and Journals in 1998, and he's been president ever since. A California resident for more than 30 years, he shares his time between the Gilroy, California headquarters, the Houston, Texas facility, and visiting clients throughout the U.S. Pierre is one of my favorite folks in the business. He's creative, extraordinarily helpful, and constantly pushes the boundaries of what a great maker can do. Camilla Lynn Weaver is the general manager at Chameleon-like. She's in the Houston facility and has been with the company since 2020. She has a background in fine art with an emphasis in sustainable printmaking and screen printing. She holds an MFA from the University of Oklahoma. Camilla is both an exceptional artist and an incredible production director, and she contributes to the Chameleon-like board of directors with experience in sustainable print practices and serves as a voice for Chameleonlike employees. Now, the Chameleon team recently rebranded, and when Mark Graham and Dave Schultz and I were in the Houston facility last year, we got a sneak peek into what they were building. And today you can see their new experience at chameleonlike.com. In today's episode, I asked Pierre and Camilla to break down the process they went through and the impact it's had on the clarity of their mission. Plus, we talk about the difficulty of navigating as a supplier between providing transparency as a manufacturer and working through their distributors while creating a memorable brand for both distributors and the end client. Hey friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, Chief Content Officer at Common Skew. Hey, this week we opened registration for Product Summit Sustainability. Product Summit Sustainability is a fresh take on product education, combining real-world learning with on-trend product ideas. And this year, joining us on the main stage is our good friend Danny Rosen, co-president of Brandfuel, and Mel Hubner, director of social impact and sustainability at Brandfuel. And they're going to talk with us about how in 2022 they achieved a decades-long dream—achieving B Corp status. Join us as we chat with Mel and Danny about making branded merchandise a force for good. Product Summit Sustainability is from 2 to 5 PM ET You'll not only hear Danny and Mel, but you'll see some of the most innovative product ideas in sustainability today from over 15 different suppliers. Invite your team and join us virtually on Thursday, May 4th. You can register at commonscue.com/productsummit. And one last quick special note. Seth Godin will be joining Mark Graham and me for a special SkewCast episode to talk about his new book, Song of Significance, to be released on May 30th, 2023. Song of Significance is a new manifesto for work. It's a management book for a new era and a new generation. I've had a sneak peek of the content, and in typical Seth fashion, it's incredibly relevant and a topic that definitely makes a ruckus. So stay tuned as we'll be releasing that episode on May 30th to coincide with the book drop. But here's the most important part. What would you like to ask Seth about the nature of work today and the future of work? We have some copies of Seth's book that we're giving away. All you have to do is visit info.comandskew.com/sethgodin-giveaway. Today's episode is brought to you by CommonSkew, the work from anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commonskew.com. Now here's my chat with Camilla and Pierre.

Welcome to you both. Pierre, it's always so good to see you.

And Camille, you're a new face. I'm so excited to unpack this with you today. But before we get started, can you share your background in both business and your art background? I want to hear from you so, so that the audience can hear a little bit of your story. Sure.

So I have a background in fine art, specifically in fine art printmaking. Which ranges from anything from etchings, woodcuts, and screen printing, which is how I got started at Chameleon. So prior to being here, I was teaching. I was an adjunct instructor teaching college art classes in several different community colleges. And then COVID hit and the world kind of fell apart. All of the classes were canceled, things went online, colleges were going through a hiring freeze. So I didn't have a job essentially. So I had to shift gears and get creative and Chameleon was hiring for a screen print specialist and that's how I got started with the company.

What's really cool about that, I just have to say one thing, what's really cool about that, sorry to interrupt you there, but I was gonna mention what some folks may not realize too is that you have this true production in our artistic background. And, and when you— when I met you, and we know the work that you do at Chameleon and that beautiful full-color work on the packaging and the materials, it kind of made sense that your role makes sense for Chameleon. Yes.

Um, it was, it was an interesting transition going from that academic sort of artist studio where it's, it's laid back, it's, you know, academia, it's a casual kind of— and then going into this production setting where, you know, it's— you need to produce and it's fast-paced and it's, you know, all of these things that are not anything like making art, but also still really, um, related. And I found myself really captivated by this entire, you know, process and seeing something, uh, you know, I was seeing the The e-proofs, so going from like a digital proof to seeing a finished product and we're seeing all these kits from these really cool companies and that was really exciting to me and something that I didn't anticipate loving as much as I do. This was, if I'm gonna be honest, this was, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this till I can get back to teaching. And now I'm not going back to teaching, so that's, that's kind of where I'm at.

I love that story because I think the industry has elevated to that point to where, especially the work that you're doing, and you're working with a lot of some of the smartest and most creative agencies in the industry. And so the work you're doing there, Pierre, I know what an amazing relief Camilla had to be to bringing her onto the team with you trying to run multiple sort of divisions. Now, most folks are familiar with Chameleon-like story, but can you recap the journey for us? Like you started Chameleon. Back when.

Yes. Before that, don't ask Camila about her first day on the job because I have to be patient. Oh wait, that's a story.

Was it bad? It was rough. It was a little bit, it was a little rough, but I stuck it out.

Did we have an order go awry? Was there production issues?

Well, Pierre was in town. I'll just say Pierre was in town.

That's like Mark Graham getting in the middle of one of my projects. That's probably what that's like. Yeah. No, and it was, it was a good shock, right? Between where Camila comes from and where she was stepping into. Because, you know, our promo and manufacturing can be totally nuts, right? Like, can be, like, it's not only the pace, it's all the stuff you can't plan for. Obviously, to answer, to respond to your question, we've been around for like longer than I want to say because I don't like to date myself. Sure. I always say, I leave people, I've been doing this for, I don't never use that. Uh, but, um, we've, um, we're strong on the journal side, uh, so along to 25 years ago. And then, um, and before the pandemic, we had this opportunity to buy a small packaging, you know, and custom box company, uh, that was located in Houston. And it was a natural expansion because we are like paper people. Um, and so that's, that's what happened there. And then the pandemic happened and we, we always struggled between, okay, journals and packaging. And so we decided Uh, we're gonna talk about branding a little bit. We decided to separate the two between Savvy Notes, which was gonna be the journal, um, and accessory mostly in, in California mostly. Mm-hmm. And Pact by Camelia and Like, um, so we could refocus on growing Pact separately from Camelia. Well, that, you know, Camelia can tell you what she thought about that initiative. Either. But that, that's pretty much, that's pretty much, you know, in a nutshell. Yeah.

So you had Chameleon and then you had Savvy Notes and, and Pact. And so you have these sort of 3 different brand entities. Now, Camilla, this is where you enter the story. And I just recorded with Kate Hallett at Harper Scott who said that an outside perspective is one of the most important things you can bring into your rebranding or visual identity process. So as an outsider coming in, you saw these three disparate brands, different disparate, not desperate, disparate different brands. And what was it about the Chameleon brand that you felt like you wanted to evolve?

Well, first I wanna say coming in as an outsider and trying to understand who we service and the, this distribution channel and all of that, it's really confusing when you're outside of it. It really is. That was a hard thing to kind of really understand. I didn't understand it when really when I was in the production and once I started managing, I understood that. And then once I started working with the marketing team, that's whenever it really became clear, okay, this is who our client is, this is who we're servicing and who we service in the industry. So understanding that was key, but once I did, once I knew, okay, this is who our client is, At that point, you start to see, okay, why are we pointing our clients to so many different directions? You know, there's so many different brands. At some point, we had 3 websites, we had 3 social media pages. It was a lot. That's asking a lot for a client to try to wrap their heads around all of that. And then, you know, what are your services? What do you offer? It just wasn't clear. So that's kind of what— that was the catalyst really for this whole, this whole rebrand.

And Pierre, I can see where it makes sense if you've got a brand new company you've bought and you have a separate identity, and especially when packaging became so hot, all of a sudden it kind of made sense that that brand had its own isolated identity.

But then they—

did they approach you about this? Were you aware of the challenge? Like, how did you respond to the idea? Did Camilla come in and like tiptoe in and go sort of walk on eggshells with you? How is the process? Yeah.

So, and then it's Camilla and then Jocelyn and Miles, right? It's like, you marketing team. You know, we were doing marketing by committee, and then at some point, like, I don't want a marketing committee, I want a marketing team, right? So we hired for that young people from outside of the industry. So Camila was kind of managing that team, and, um, and they're kind of like, as a young team, I kind of stuck up with you. Graphically, they were all in Houston, so it was a little bit remote, you know, right? And then they're starting, like, not going rogue, you know, but we had our brand brand guidelines and all that. And, and I remember one time we were talking about it, they were doing a backdrop for one of the small booths, you know, at a show. It was last. And then I'm looking like, what is that? Like, what is that logo? Like, what? And where is PACT and Savvy Notes? And then, and then after that, actually, I like it better, you know. So like, your first reaction was, this is not according to brand guidelines. When I saw that It looks really cool. And so, um, that's why I'm like, but first of all, like, what's going on? That's when Camilla, I think you said, well, we actually need to want it. We wanted me to talk to you about that. It's okay. Um, yeah, right.

So we tiptoed around it. We tiptoed around it a lot. I think Pierre at some point was like, what are you trying to say? Just say it. And we were like, we think we should just be Chameleon and drop all the other names and all this. And this is why. And, um. But Pierre was really receptive to the idea and listened to us. And, you know, at some point we were just going on a hunch. You know, we really felt like it would be more clear, more concise just to unify everything under the Chameleon name.

And then to that, at some point, Bobby, you're like, okay, are we reversing course because we made a mistake? Are we just giving up too soon? And we really ask ourselves the question. It was other people in the company like Brandon or even Danielle was involved a lot. Maybe we're just giving up too soon on. And, but ultimately, what did we do? We talked to some customers and whether it's Canary or Needel or some of the good customers, they were like, please bring Chameleon back. We are lost. You know, they wouldn't tell us. Great. When we asked them the question, it was an instant validation. And so that's what they know, like, that's it. That's all we need, right, at this point. Yeah.

What about a rebrand? One of the things I think we take it for granted as distributors is we have one brand typically that we're marketing to one audience. It might be different verticals or different industries, but it's one market. There's something unique that's happened with the supplier marketing. And so what about a rebrand is difficult for a supplier that we as distributors might take for granted or not even realize?

Yeah, I mean, in the same, at the same time, I think we all have the same issues is our focus is the end user brand, right? So it's like, well, I'm sure the distributors also have that struggle, right? Like, how do I develop my identity still? Because my client wants to hear about their brand, not mine. And I think it's amplified for us too, because, you know, we're, we'll talk, I think later about transparency, all that, but we're taught to be, you know, behind the scene, you know, and that's how it works out. And so when you can't put your brand on a product, I mean, putting your brand on a product, the big part of being a brand, you know, and then being retail, right? So we are, we don't have any of that. I see some distributors who are trying to have a retail line. I think it's very smart, you know. Yeah. I think you've seen like 12NYC and yes. And I'm like, that's, that's, that's how you establish a brand. So there, So for us, it's the same. It's just like amplified, right? With the fact that now— Yeah.

Camila, what impact did the multiple brands have on your internal culture in Houston and California? Because you mentioned something about unifying your company. Oh, yeah.

Well, so even when the company was bought in 2018, I wasn't here, but a lot of those employees stayed with and became Chameleon employees. So I really felt like there was a, it was disjointed. It was the Houston people, it was the California people, and the employees here, they, to them, they didn't even know anything about Savvy Notes or they just knew Chameleon was Gilroy, Chameleon was California, that's where they make journals. And it was, we were like, the guys on the side making packaging. Yes.

Right.

That's how they felt. So it was a little bit of that. But also it was interesting, even when we did some new hires, the candidates would come in and they would say, well, what is the company? Are you Chameleon? Are you Pact? Am I working for Savvy Notes? They didn't know. And Uh, it was very clear that there was a lot of confusion going on internally as well.

Yeah.

Now Pierre, did that change too?

I'm sure that was a welcome relief to you as, uh, there had to be a lot of things simplified through that process. Yes.

And then, and, and to that, you know, like branding is part of the culture too, right? In the company. So that totally, that was another reason why to do that because you can't, you can't tell people, hey, we're all in this together and then you have different brands. So like, you know, so. Right. Which was the case. Um, yeah. So that the other thing that, uh, when we talk to marketing people, they're all digital marketing. That's when, you know, Joslyn and, and someone else before that told us you can't possibly ask your client to follow 3 Instagram accounts. That doesn't make any sense. Right. So I think when that, when we started incorporating that, the other part is the new marketing, which is Tell her, tell your story, you know, the sustainability story, the maker identity, same thing. So you need to, how do you tell a story when you have 3 brands and location? You need to unify all that. So we worked a lot on that and that led to the new website. Um, but yeah, that would, I don't think we could have done telling our story effectively, right, Camila, if we didn't unify ourselves. Yeah.

I want to get to— Camila, did you want to add anything to that? No.

No.

Okay. I want to get to the challenge of anonymity and transparency in just a minute. But before we do, we just have a quick question or two about the process, because there are folks that are either distributors or suppliers that are looking at doing the same thing. Camila, how long did this process take from when you said, you know, we're going to rebrand to when you launched it?

I believe it was 4 or 5 months. From, you know, and prior to that we were, like Pierre said, the marketing team was kind of testing some things out. But, but the whole thing with website was about 4 or 5 months of really just focusing solely on that project.

Was the first of the year— I know it unveiled the first of the year. We were lucky to get a sneak peek because we had the awesome privilege of visiting you in your facility down there in Houston. Was there a finish line on purpose around the first of the year?

Well, we wanted to be done by PPAI. That was like a, you know, a big milestone. And I think we finished, we finished pretty, pretty on time to schedule.

Having been through this now, Camilla, how would you advise any one distributor or supplier based on your experience with this? What did you learn from this or what would you do differently if you were to go through this process again?

I think really all of this for us goes back to our client and our customers, and going back to that is really important, really understanding why are we doing this? Is this benefiting our clients? Are we making things easier for them? Which I think we discovered we had made a bit of a mess. So, but simplifying that as much as possible was crucial. We wanted it to be an easier process for our clients to understand who we are as a company, be able to access our products. So that is key. So why are you rebranding? Is this going to be beneficial for your customers? I think that's key to going into a rebrand.

Yeah. The only thing, the other thing is what I realize is you can't do rebrand with the same people in a way, you know? And so a lot of people, the choice was, do we go through an agency, you know, outside? Um, or do we give that to the younger, I mean, more recent, uh, team, you know, including was a really talented designer, uh, Miles Carney, who was with us. And so he, he, and through collaboration, and I kind of had to step out. And there, you know, I've been, Daniel who works with me, I think was more like, oh, he felt disinvolved and all that. And it's like, you're not being disrespected. It's almost like actually they wanted to do it on their own almost to impress us. And that's right. That's what ended up happening. And, but you can't be, you know, I'm very hands-on as a business owner, as Camila knows. This is why I had to learn to not be. Yeah. Yeah. For their creativity really to take place.

I know you and that had to be hard, but it's cool that you were able to take that step back.

And I did okay, right, Camila? Honestly.

No, you did good. You did good. I did good.

Yeah, you did good. Let's talk about something really, really important that's happened through in the industry from in clients to distributors to suppliers. And that is this challenge of a supplier having both anonymity and transparency. We live in a different world now where Camila, you both both have brought this up, but Camilla, you noticed it in particular, that now end clients are wanting transparency with factories that they work with. But you walked into an industry that likes its secrets, or at least that folks like Pierre and I have, have been a part of what used to be the industry's thinking on that. I think it's changed a lot. But Camilla, what— how did this factor into your website and customers?

Did you wrangle with this? Yes, so we knew that the corporate site was gonna be the place for us to be as transparent as possible. And when you go to our corporate site, you can find a list of our suppliers, where we source our materials, even the company of where, you know, everything from, you know, where are they local, you know, all of that. This was really important for us to be transparent about that. We are also very transparent about, um, the history of Chameleon. We have, you know, all of our milestones and timelines of, of what has led us to be the, the sustainable manufacturer that we are to this day. Um, so that's very clear on the corporate side. Um, another thing that we're doing as far as production, we have an eco card that we're now adding to all of our packaging kits and products. And this has a QR code that leads you directly to that site that talks about our sustainability and our transparency. So that's really— that was really important and kind of drove the way that we designed the corporate site. Yeah.

Pierre, this has been a challenge you've lived with for a long time, and you work with some of the most creative distributors in the business, as I mentioned. How have you seen this shift? I mean, you have an example you can share where it used to be, don't talk about your brand as a supplier, and now it's talk about your brand. Yeah.

And I think it's from the end user actually. Right. Like, and, and, and the distributors add so much value. I always say your value is not your Rolodex because you know who is doing the koozie out there. That your value is, is what you bring to the process. And we've seen that recently. Um, so typically it would be, we don't want your name anywhere on the product and all that. And then we're seeing that shifting and we, we just did an order, uh, for Disney and it was Disney's going to Japan and the distributor says, hey, they want your, um, your, your reference to who that comes from. Say, okay, great. We'll put our website. They actually wanted the physical address, like our physical address. And that was their client asking that, like Gilroy, California. And so, I mean, that's a good example, right? So I think, well, the end user, where is that coming from? Don't tell me any story. I always tell the story. You should be proud to work with people like us. You know, we are doing all the work. I mean, for God's sake, we're trying to become B Corp. Cross your fingers within 2 months, we're there. And so one of the first sessions that I went to at Q Camp, the first Q Camp in Palm Springs, the first session was Denise.. And it was about B Corp and sustainability. And she says, people want to meet their maker, right? And she was, she did. And they want it. And I was like, wow, that was very, very powerful. And I think it's, it's, it's becoming more and more like that.

Yeah.

That's very cool.

Camelia, was this a struggle at all? Did you, or, or, or with the transparency and having to figure out all the different voices and the importance of who hears what or not, or is it now, has it made it easier?

I mean, I think it's easier. I think it's, you know, we're just transparent about what we do and what we offer. And it's easy to be open about that when it's allowed. And, you know, it seems like people are wanting that. Yeah.

While we're still talking to you, Camilla, let me ask this. What I'm trying to do more on the podcast, and I think our guests accept this, is— and our audience really accepts this because you come to show up and share your expertise. So I like to highlight highlight what Chameleon-like is doing better than anyone else because we don't do sponsored ads or anything. So I have my ideas, but Camilla, as, uh, what do you wish more distributors knew about Chameleon?

Uh, well, I think what really sets us apart is that we have done such a great job of being creative and innovative, but also being reliable and, um, what is the word, uh, but being consistent. So, you know, we're creative makers, but we're also true to our process and our commitment to be made in the USA, to be sustainable, and all of these things that are big values for us. I really think that's where we—

that's our strength. Yeah. Pierre, how would you answer that? Yeah, I mean, exactly. I was telling Camila, you can find suppliers, you know, in our industries that are their process even better than ours, right? But you definitely, some, I would think about a sandbar, not that they're not creative, but everybody will tell you, wow, you know, their process and their, it's unbelievable. Then you can find little smaller suppliers that are super creative, but then it's, they don't have their shit together, you know? So you'll get it when you get in, you know? Oh, come on. They're sensitive. And the challenge is for us is is to marry the two. And I think that can always balance the two. We're not commodity, you know, but also real reliable. You know, you will get water in time. We'll communicate through all the process, whatnot.

So yeah, we, we have been in the Gilroy and Houston facilities, so we're proud to say we've been in both. And my takeaway was, wow, this is true artisan and craftsmanship. So when you bring someone like Camila in who has this both, both an artistic and a production background, it makes perfect sense to me that she's in the role that she's in today because of that mix of creativity, artistry, artisan craftsmanship. It's a beautiful thing to see. I also want to comment that what I think Chameleon does better than anyone else, and maybe you don't want anyone else to do this better than you, is this creative follow-through you've done. After our events, you send not just any kit, but a really cool creative follow-up campaign to attendees. Why? I think we know the obvious, but why do you do that?

Well, I think it's because, you know, we're a small company, right? And so those events sometimes are a substantial investment. And the return on investment is in the follow-up. And I think a lot of distributors realize that. And so that's something to tell our client. It's not going to the show. It's after, right? Because after the show, you're going to see so many people. You're going to party and whatnot. What are you going to retain, right? And so that is why it is so key. We've done it, yeah, a long, you know, long time. One of the new things that we do, Bobby, now, just to show you that the process, we email each contact, each contact from an Outlook, not from a constant contact, right? So, and we dispatch that, you know, you'll do this 20, I'll do this 20. And we ask them to confirm their address and that they do want that package. Because part of the sustainability is we're not going to ship it if you don't want it. We don't want it to end up in some, and we don't want to send it to your corporate address, which gives you more problems. And so that's something we added like as part of the B Corp ethical marketing, you know? And that makes it more powerful too, you know?

So I love that. You know, I got that email, Pierre. I have to tell you now, we all know to respond to it. I got it and I thought, I think they know I want their stuff. I love Chameleon. And so I didn't respond and I'm okay. Now I respond. It's really cool though that that's something you've brought online as a part of of the B Corp process as well, and it's probably been so helpful. What, how effective has this been for y'all as a brand that this strategy of the follow-up?

You know, I think it's, it's developed us as that, you know, like we're, we're starting to hear at shows, oh, you know, I know you're going to send me something cool. And no, it does. Um, so it, it leaves an impression of that. And then, you know, always trying to separate us from commodity, you know, usually the kids can as well put together, it's not a bunch of So obviously, that pertains also to packaging and kitting facilities. So, yeah.

Camille, Camille, I had a— I have a question that just sort of dawned on me about you and your role and what you do. I think you represent a new type of professional in the business who approaches what we do both with artistry, craftsmanship, as well as production expertise. If you were to encourage another person in your role, whether that's a supplier or maybe they're a creative director at a distributorship, which that role is growing to, by the way, how would you encourage them to look at the industry? I mean, you've done this 180 where you thought this thing's going to be temporary and now you're like, this is actually really cool business.

Oh, well, I would say, you know, being creative, coming from a creative background, you have to— you have to in some ways be scrappy. You have to be scrapping. That's how I ended up in this job. I would not have been at Chameleon if I wasn't like, you know what, times are tough, I need to figure something out. I have these skills, I have this knowledge of a very niche, you know, subject and skill that I can use somewhere else. So what can I do with this? So always, always bring that creativity to other facets of your professional life. I think that's That's key. And I think creatives are— creative people can do great things if put in the right environment.

I truly believe that. I agree. You are proof of it. Pierre, Camila, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for welcoming us into your business home when we came down there to Houston. And appreciate you joining the SKUcast as always. All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Bobby. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkuCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SkuCast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.