Episode 282: “A Sustainable Idea Factory” Kotmo Founder, Céline Juppeau

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew. A sustainable idea factory. That's the vision of a Quebec-based company called Cotmo. Founded by Céline Gippaud and her business partner Cindy Couture, Cotmo is now selling their vision into the U.S. market. 4 months ago, Céline and Cindy went on Dragon's Den, the Canadian equivalent and predecessor of the American show Shark Tank. After making their pitch for the first pen designed, sourced, and manufactured in Canada using post-consumer recycled plastic, the two entrepreneurs won. And after 3 years of research, a win of investment money through Dragon's Den, they've sold 185,000 units with plans to expand. Céline, an architect and interior designer, and Cindy, designer, entrepreneur, journalist, and strategist, represent a new kind of entrepreneur. They're a hybrid of sorts: a product design house, a supplier who manufactures through a hand-picked selection of factories, a distributor to the Quebec area, and a wholesaler through retail. But it's their passion for building a conscientious and socially responsible company that enabled them to become designated as a B Corp in 2016, just 2 years after their founding. And they were honored on B Corp's Best for the World list. To earn a spot on the Best for the World list, a company must score in the top 10% of all B Corps on the community portion of the B Impact Assessment. Today we chat with Céline about their journey, their vision, and their mission behind the Cotmo brand. But before our chat, if you're a new listener, each year in January we host an epic annual event experience called SKUCON. It is the conference for innovators, explorers, and dreamers in the promotional products industry. And this year we are celebrating our 10th SKUCON. Hard to believe, 10. SKUCON will be held on Sunday, January 14th at the Keep Memory Alive Center in Las Vegas. SKUCON is held the day before the PPAI Expo. And this year I cannot wait to tell you about the lineup we have in store. But for now, I just want to encourage you to visit skucon.com to preregister because in about a few weeks we'll release our lineup of speakers and open registration. SKUCON sells out quickly, so if you preregister, you'll be the first to know about it ahead of our public announcement. You can visit skucon.com to preregister today. Today's episode is brought to you by Comiskey, the work from anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commonscue.com. Now here's my chat with Celine. You know, I thought it was fitting that she joined me from her warehouse where her team listened to us in the background while we recorded and while they continued their work. I thought it was a cool real-time window into a thriving business with heart. Here's Celine. It's such a delight to have you here. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me.

What inspired you to start Cotmo?

I started Kopmo 9 years ago now. I moved to Montreal from France 11 years ago, and when I arrived in Montreal, I had no professional network. And my mom was from Lebanon. She always told me that relationship is the most important thing. And when I was a teenager, she was like, she forced me to to write emails to people I was going into do trainings and all that, sending vows and all. She was really focusing on maintaining good relationships and network. When I moved to Montreal, I had no network and I went to so many events to meet people. I was listening to big companies talking about sustainability, talking about recycling, buying local, and I was coming out of those events with a USB key made in China. I was like, that's weird. You know how a big company who has the money to, to have an impact is actually lecturing me on my sustainable actions, and they are giving me a product that is cheap, that is made out of plastic, went all around the world to end up in my hand and I'm going to throw it away.

So that inspired you to start Cotmo. Tell us for a minute just where you're at right now. You're in your warehouse?

Yeah, I'm at the office with all my colleagues listening to the podcast.

That's awesome. I love it. I love it. How do you do— how do you define Cotmo to customers and to friends?

Well, Cotmo is on a mission to change the promotional industry, to change an industry that no one cares about because We don't really take the time to understand the promotional industry. When we explain to people what we do, people are like, oh, is that an industry? All those goodies that I have in my hand, there's actually an industry behind that. We're on a mission to, to make sure companies understand that everything that they buy with their brand on it has a message and is actually It's putting their brand into the hands of customers. We work on and that we focus on is really making sure that the products that we create, that we deliver to our clients, have a positive impact, that are sustainable. So this is how I explain what we do.

Yeah. How many, how many employees do you have?

We're a team of 10 people.

Okay. Now here's the question I have for you. And I love when I, when you and I were talking about this in a pre-chat, are you a distributor, a supplier, or an agency? You said to me this, and I love it. You said, I don't know who made this rule about distributor versus supplier, but I don't want to choose. I want to be both.

Exactly. So when I started, I wanted to create products. So I have a background in design. I did my studies in France in interior architecture and design. And so I wanted to create products that are meaningful. So we started to create products and selling them to businesses. And so people were like, well, distributors were like, well, can you send me your products? Like, why are you creating products and you're also selling to companies? And I'm like, well, my purpose in life is to change businesses. Because I believe that all the big changes that we need, that needs to happen in our world regarding environmental changes and social changes, I believe that companies have the power to do so. And this is my focus, to make sure that businesses change the way they practice, the way they buy, the way they they, they source. We're, we're in between, like we're a distributor, we're also a manufacturer. So, and I remember having those conversations with, with distributors and they were like, well, why don't you focus on selling to me? And I was like, yeah, but are you really leading a message to the, the, the end customer? Like, what are you telling them? Because you're just going to use my product. In the big catalogs. And I want to make sure that you have the conversation with the business to change the way they, they source promotional products. If you don't have it, well, let me have this conversation.

So you are very selective about who you sell to, obviously. And what channel— what other channels? So you also sell to retail like, like the retail shop Bref. Am I pronouncing that right? In Montreal. So you sell retail, you're a manufacturer, and then you will sell to some distributors if it's the right audience for you. Is that right?

Well, this all changed actually when we launched our locally made pen last October. So before that, we were only selling to businesses. Okay. Uh, we were, some distributors were contacting us because they wanted to have some of our products, but it was not a lot of them. Last October, uh, we launched the most sustainable pen in North America and the first pen made in Canada from recycled plastic. And that is recyclable. And with this, we have a product that has the power to really change an industry. And this product, we didn't want to keep it to ourselves. We were like, if we want to change the industry, we need to have all the distributors embark in this mission. And so we built this product so they could sell it to their customers.

Right.

So it's a whole new business model and we're also now opening to retail so they can also sell to an end customer. Right.

I love this because we're stepping into the middle of your journey, right? It's not like— it's like you're figuring things out. You discovered after 3 years of research and development, if I have that right, you developed the first recycled pen made in Canada. So demand came from everywhere. And let's talk about that pen for just a minute as an example of what you're trying to do. How did you decide on materials and design? I'll get back to you as a business in a minute. But this pen, since we're on the topic, you went through multiple iterations of this, right?

Yeah. So the first reflection that we had was 5 years ago when we're like, oh, we need to have— we need to design product with more sustainable and responsible materials. And we first embarked in the R&D with thinking that we would create a compostable material. That didn't happen. Like, that was a whole other company. And the chemical, like, person we were working with was, was always asking us, what product do you want to do? Like, what product do you want to do with this materials? And we're like, oh, we don't know. We're designers. We're going to create anything, you know? And he was like always focusing us back to a product. So we sat down and we're like, okay, what is the product that is the most sold in our industry? And we realized that pen after all the clothes is the most sold product.

Most popular item.

Yeah. Most popular item. And we're like, well, all the, the pen that we have are made out— the sustainable pen, the, the pen that are said that are sustainable, but not really, are all made outside of Canada. And so we're like, we need something that is locally made. So this is how we started to work on the pen that was locally made. For the material, we had different approach. We had an approach on compostability and then we had an approach on recyclable plastic. And we worked with environmental consultant and they told us, now the best, the most sustainable option is a recycled plastic because there are all this plastic that is recyclable that has no second life and it's just a waste. So let's use this that we know how to recycle because the compostability is like, it's not yet there. The industry is not yet there.

Right.

Um, so it was harder for us to market a product like this, but on the recycled part, The industry is more ready. The infrastructure is more ready. So that's why we chose to have actually all— it's so it's plastic that is recyclable and recycled from the garbage of people in Quebec. Like we have this green or blue garbage where we put all the plastic and this plastic that you put there is actually recycled in in a factory and then we buy it from there and then we produce the pen.

And you manufacture everything in-house for this pen?

So we have partners around Quebec, in the Quebec region, that manufacture the pen.

Okay. I love this though. Manufacturing is such a capital-intensive investment. Like how many— so you got into this business and you thought, I just want to design cool things that protect the planet and save and stop destroying the planet. And you were very passionate about it, but you also had this product design focus. What else do you manufacture at Cotmo and how much of your product do you manufacture versus— I want to get one more question about the pen in a minute, but what else do you manufacture?

So we designed since the beginning of Cotmo, we designed about 100 products. That are made in Quebec. So we have manufacturers all around the province. We buy some of our materials. For example, we buy felt, we buy cotton, we buy recyclable plastic, polyester, we buy wood. And those materials are stuck in our different manufacturers with the collaborators that we work with. And they just, they produce the product that we design. So we have, it's about half and half now because in distribution, you know, like bottle of waters are really popular, but they're not made here. So we have some products that we also distribute. So it might be half and half now.

Okay. So you launched the pen last October. How many units have you moved and sold since then?

We sold, let me give you the exact number because I'm really proud. Um, we sold, and I have to have it right with my English, uh, 185,000. Yeah.

Wow. Love it.

So 185,000. 0, 0, 0.

I love it. You, you were featured on Dragon's Den, which for those of us in the US, Dragon's Den was the original Shark Tank. Um, and what was your— when, when was that and what did you pitch?

So that was, uh, in April. Um, and we actually—

just this year?

Yeah, just this year, like maybe 3— actually it was the 26th of April that we were on TV. So about 3 months ago, and we, we, we presented Cartmo, but we also presented the pen because it's a whole other business that it's kind of a whole other business that we're launching with this. It's new distribution channels. It's a new way of thinking and So we wanted to feature this product to have people to know about it and also have an investment that will help us grow the business and go outside of Quebec because we want to sell more to Canada and the US. And I also want to precise on something is that, and I know your audience is also more I mean, the Anglophone part of Canada and the US, but what we decided also with this pen, and you know, we were talking about we're a manufacturer and we are a distributor, but what we decide is that 99% of my clients are in Quebec. So for the Quebec market, we're still in between, but for the rest of Canada and the US, we want to be a supplier. So we only want to sell this product. Distributors and we don't want to, like, it's, it's, it would be too hard for us to go knock on every door or client in a new market. So we want to have distributor. And we have actually, we have now distributor in BC, in Ontario, in Nova Scotia. So we want to go out there and have distributor help us I put this pen in the hands of businesses and people. So a better environment.

Fantastic. So you go on in April, you launched the pen last fall, you get on Dragon's Den in April, you win some investment money into the product, and now you have decided— I love this distinction— you've decided you're going to sell into Quebec with your company, but then for the pen, you're obviously going to then sell to outside of Quebec to other Canadian companies and then into the US. What did you learn from your Dragon's Den experience? Like, obviously that probably helped you decide where some of these lines were going to be drawn.

Well, it was a lot of stress. You know, it's always stressful to, to know that at the end you're going to be like, you're going to go on TV. And, and it was really interesting because You know, we were talking about the promotional industry. It was really interesting to go there and talk about this industry because on the investor that are on the set, actually, there was one of them and she's the one who gave us the investment. She knew the industry. She buys a lot of promotional products. But it was really interesting to to talk about this industry because we realized that people don't really know what— that there's a whole industry with a lot of money that pollutes the planet, that gives a lot of crappy stuff, and no one cares about. Yeah.

So you started the business in 2014. Do I have my year right?

Is that right?

2014. You were designated a B Corp in 2016, 2 years after your founding. And you were also— this is an incredible honor— you were honored by B Corp on their— what was it— the Best for the World. They have this Best of the World— for the World designation. And it is a quote from B Corp: Community honorees have built caring for the community into their business model, like a business that donates all profits to rescue animal shelters or fair trade soap company that provides educational opportunities to all farmers, communities, and supply chain. They're proving the business care for supporting your community. How do you at Cotmo So how did you end up on that list? How do you support your community?

Well, by having all the products that we design made locally. I think this is, this is the first focus I had with the company. And when we had our first certification, this is where I can make an easy and quick decision is to choose the business that I want to work with and the manufacturers I want to work with. So that was always a decision that we took to make sure that we work with local businesses, to make sure that we have businesses that are from the social economy, that are nonprofit, that are woman-owned, and there are unions, you know, like all the social impact. So this is the first step that we took in the company because this was the first thing that we could be different from our competitors, you know, because, you know, today we talk a lot about like having locally made product and I see big companies coming to us and say, oh, well, we need to buy differently. Like, but 9 years ago when I started and I was telling companies, well, you know, like this is made in China. Do you really? Yeah, but the price, you know, You know, it was, it was really, it was a tough conversation and there was not a lot of businesses that were ready to make a change. But 9 years now after, they don't have the choice anymore. But we have 9 years experience in producing locally. Working with, with manufacturers is actually, it's a skill, you know, like it's, it's complicated. It's you have to adjust the way you do business. You have to collaborate with them. You want to make sure you understand, you know, like how products are made, you know, the people behind them. It's not machines that do everything.

Yeah. Celine, I know you're almost a decade into your business now, so you're not new by any means, but you do represent a new kind of entrepreneur where you come in with social impact on your mind. You want to impact the community. You want to protect the planet, you want to do things that are positive. It's such a refreshing message. And the fact that you are so conscientious about who you choose to work with in your supply chain, the fact that B Corp recognized this, the fact that you're very conscientious about the distributors that you work with, it's phenomenal. It's a great inspiration for all of us as we look to the future of the business. So congrats to you and your team and your business partner. I know you have worked very, very hard.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

You are an interior architect and a designer by training. This— you sort of already talked about this, but this factors into your work. Like, you're a designer by training, so you love doing product design, I would assume.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I, uh, well, as, as you, you mentioned, I, I grew up in, uh, in France, and my mom was half Lebanese, half Canadian, my dad French. So I grew up in different cultures and I was always interested in art. I used to go a lot to museums when I was young. Actually, Paris is a good place to live when you love art. And always creative, like I was When I was young, I was doing a lot of drawings. So when my parents had friends over, I would like set up all my drawings in the living room. And so they were like having a drink. Yeah. Like an art gallery and I was making money like this to buy candies. And, um, so, and I, I, uh, I went into design because I love, um, I'm fascinated by all the products that are around us that we consume. And I believe that there's a lot of history that comes out of design and the products that we have and how we use it, how we interact with them. And I think that more and more, we didn't give the conscious for people like to know how products are made, really understanding, you know, like how it's made. And this is what we love at Cobbo and we used actually to do some videos of how our products were made to, and give those videos to our clients so they understand why they're paying more, you know.

Right, right. I meant to ask this earlier. Are you, do you plan on releasing more product to your other North American distributors other than in pen? I'm sure you do. Yes. Okay, great.

We always have ideas. Uh, now we're— we need this pen to work to reinvest, um, right, the money and, and work on the next product.

Okay, I figured as much, but, but I thought I would ask. So tell me a little bit more about you. What brands or companies do you follow that inspire you?

Well, I love— and I— this is maybe cliché from all the B Corps, but I love Patagonia. I, I I read the book, um, Let My People Go Surfing, and that was, that was really a real revelation, you know, to how you want to manage a business. So I'm more interested in practices, how the— more than the brand, you know, and the look of the brand is more like what practices that you bring in, into, uh, into the business. I remember my first B Corp retreat, there was this company who made a conference and they were saying that part of the profit that they had was actually going into a fund. And when employees needed a loan, a small loan to do a little project, they could borrow money from this one, zero interest, and for a year, and they just give it back, you know, like this is practices that inspires me.

What do you enjoy doing when you're not working?

I draw.

Draw. Okay, so you still— art, art is still a passion of yours.

Yeah.

Last question for you: what's the most inspiring or impactful book, movie, or podcast episode you've listened to lately? Any recommendations for us?

Well, actually, my, my colleague, uh, we went to Vermont last weekend and she made me listen to a podcast that was really inspiring by Simon Sinek, How to Change Your Future, one of the best speeches ever for millennials.

Hmm, nice. Okay, great recommendation. We'll check it out. That's awesome. Céline, I am so amazed by what you and your company have accomplished. I know it's been a decade. You've worked incredibly hard. You can tell. So thanks for joining us for the podcast today. My best to you and your business partner and the whole company.

Thank you so much, Bobby.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkuCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.