Episode 288: Branded Merch as Social Signifier: Amplifier or Igniter?

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. Skucast is the official podcast of Common Skew.

In 1983, Catherine Hamnett lined up to shake Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's hand. Minutes before, she pulled an anti-nuclear protest t-shirt from her bag and quickly threw it on. The imprint said, "The 58% don't want purging." She startled the Prime Minister with her t-shirt and provoked a public conversation about nuclear missiles. In a 2018 article, Hamnett described the scenario looking back on it nearly 40 years later. The "58% don't want Pershing" came from a European opinion poll about the proliferation of American cruise and Pershing nuclear missiles across Europe without consulting the electorate, which was totally undemocratic. Wearing that on a t-shirt was the best thing she could think of at the time. Now, why on earth am I leading with this anecdote? Hamnett would go on to design many other protest shirts, including the Choose Life t-shirt made famous by musician George Michael, and she would eventually produce over a million t-shirts in total. Hamnett declared that a t-shirt is designed to make you think, question, and hopefully act, also stating that these shirts are actually designed to be seminal, in other words, a work strongly influencing later developments. That's what we're talking about today, because branded merch has crossed an important threshold. From protest merch to campaign merch to bands and brands, branded merch has become what one author calls a social signifier, from Tim Hortons shop to UPS merch to Biden's dark Brandon mug and more. Plus, how branded merch is the perfect medium for what some are calling The Joyconomy. Hi friends, I'm Bobby LeHew, Chief Content Officer at Common Cues, and I'm joined today by Mark Graham, Common Cues President and Chief Brand Officer. If you haven't heard last week's episode featuring Joey Coleman, bookmark that one for a listen later. He is phenomenal. Joey's the author of Wall Street Journal bestseller, Never Lose a Customer Again, and he's just released a new book, Never Lose an Employee Again: The Simple Path to Remarkable Retention. Joey is our keynote speaker at our signature event, SKUCON, held in Las Vegas on January 14th. This coming SKUCON marks the 10th time the industry's most innovative thinkers will gather together to connect, learn, and reignite alongside like-minded pros. If you're a new listener, SKUCON breaks boundaries in the promotional products industry and sits at the cutting edge of merch life. It features stories from pros in the trenches, fresh ideas from tomorrow's leaders, and a celebration of brilliant brand execution and growth. And SKUCon is almost sold out. So if you're interested in attending, you might grab those tickets for you and your team today at skucon.com.

I hope to see you there.

Today's episode is brought to you by Commscue, the work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commsscue.com.

Now here's my chat with Mark Graham. So Mark, let's start with a story. Can you tell the story about the chat our team had that just, they, we just went off on the Tim Hortons merch, but first explain what Tim Hortons is for anyone living in Terlingua, Texas.

So Tim Hortons is Dunkin' Donuts in Canada. They've done a great job of creating a coffee and donut and muffin brand. That speaks to Canadians and, and its parallel is, is Dunkin'. So that frames what we're about to talk about in terms of the kind of brand that we're getting at here. So we have a marketing channel in Slack where our whole marketing team will weigh in on all sorts of topics. And someone had posted this link to Tim Hortons' new branded merchandise campaign. Right. And everyone was super excited about it because it's really cool stuff. Great. Great merch, great, like thoughtful design, really cool product designed for a hip and discerning audience, right? So you look at the merchandise campaign and on some levels it's the absolute pinnacle of what we do as an industry, creating merchandise that people will pay their hard-earned dollars to go and wear a Tim Hortons logo. Okay. And so that was one side of the conversation, but Then the cynics kind of showed up and I, maybe I represented one of those voices, right? Where it was like, hey, on one hand, this is incredible merch and it's incredible, great design and all the high watermark of things that we're looking to do in this industry. But Tim Hortons, it feels like there's a disconnect between Tim Hortons, the brand and how they have typically shown up and how they're positioned in the Canadian marketplace and to be clear, there are some Tim Hortons locations in the US, but it's primarily a Canadian brand, right? How they show up with the merchandise that they've produced. So, and my comment was, well, hang on a second here. It looks as though Tim Hortons has created a merchandise line that you would expect from that local Bobby Lee Hue coffee shop, totally independent, run by artists in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Okay. Not from one of Canada's biggest brands that, to, to be honest, I think aims for kind of an every person demographic. Okay. Yeah. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's, it's different marketing. So it, to me, it felt like the brand was, the merchandise was incredible, but I was like, well, hang on a second here. Is, is this something feels off? It almost feels like they've. They've appropriated, they've stolen someone else's brand identity in creating this. And we had a big debate about that, whether that's good or it's bad. And our marketing team was really divided between the people that are like, get me that hoodie right now. I don't care if I never will drink Tim Hortons coffee again. And there were others that were like, I don't know. I actually don't feel comfortable about this because it feels like it's a brand mismatch.

I, it's funny because don't you think Hortons is trying to reach a different demographic with this then? Is that a possible play here?

Yes. And, and I think, I wonder whether that's where it falls down because they're creating this storyline, they're using merchandise, and they're, I think, speaking to people that if they showed up at their coffee shop, I think would be underwhelmed. And we, I won't out any of the people on the team that had this discussion, but it seemed to me that there were people that would say, I would love to wear this hoodie, but there is no way I would ever drink Tim Hortons coffee because it's awful. And I thought that was interesting. I thought that was interesting. It's like, how do you have that dis— how do you have that disconnect? And I think that's what I was spending a lot of time thinking about in terms of, yeah, Why, why would a brand try to go to these lengths when they may not necessarily be able to close the deal? Because at the end of the day, they're kind of a wolf in sheep's clothing, right?

I'm one of the few, or maybe the only one who didn't have a bias one way or the other because there's no Tim Hortons in my market. So I was able to look at it pretty objectively and go, that's some pretty rad merch. It was a really cool— two thoughts. One is we've seen this with Dunkin'. When Dunkin' first came out with their merchandise, it was fun. It was energetic. It had a really cool vibe, but there might be a mismatch there because, you know, I don't go to Dunkin' for any kind of cultural experience whatsoever. Just get me my coffee. Give me my donut. I'm on my way. But I remember Jordan Peele talking about his, his production company is called Monkeypaw Productions. And when they released the movie Nope, he released a merch collection along with it. Now you could think that one of the most popular filmmakers of today wouldn't need a merch collection to help boost his movie. But what he said was, we actually launched the merch collection to reach a completely different demographic. And I thought that was kind of funny. And so that's why I wonder, you know, in this case, is that why they partnered with Justin Bieber? Is that why they launched this merch collection? And of course, National Coffee Day is coming up and that, and I think we're about 2 weeks ahead of it or a week ahead of it. And that's probably another play. They said there was going to be another big drop. But there was no disconnect for me because I thought, what a fun brand. I actually wanted some of the merch because it was designed so cool. Yeah.

And maybe I'm, maybe I'm thinking about it too hard and maybe too literally, but I think the first thing that I thought of is it felt like they were copying someone else's branding because, because of the way that they had gone to market with this. So while, while I think all the merch was well designed and everything, it felt it felt that that's what they were doing, that they were copying someone else's branding, someone else's positioning, and it, and it, and it felt a little disingenuous. Yeah.

Well, I also wonder if they're not tapping into something that's happened as of the beginning of this year. The Hustle Trend newsletter pointed out that we live in now the joy economy, noting that the search for the phrase how to have more fun in life exploded in 2019. You think it would have dissipated, but it's actually skyrocketed in popularity this year. So it was coined by agency Wunderman Thompson, this term in their annual report on trends. One magazine wrote, coined by Wunderman Thompson Intelligence as the joy economy, the rise of trends such as elevated expressionism, feel-good feeds, and ageless play demonstrates the opportunities for brands who lean into consumers' desire for inspiration and optimism. As people are determined to show resilience, innovation, and joy in the face of continued hardship. I thought that was kind of an interesting take. Maybe, maybe in the grand scheme of things with all of these big brands, they're leaning more into that aspect. You hear me trying to give like real positive attributes to Tim Hortons because I have no connection emotionally to the brand whatsoever, but it could be that they're leaning into the joy economy part of it.

I, yeah, I think so. And, and, and to be clear, it, while I'm, it sounds like I'm arguing more of the negative side of this, I think that What they've done is a net positive for our industry. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, it's a great example of well-produced merchandise that people will purchase and they'll wear the Tim Hortons brand proudly. Maybe ironically in some cases, maybe it doesn't generate any coffee sales amongst a certain group of people, but the fact that they're walking around with this creates brand impression. And at the end of the day, if it creates good quality merchandise with branded impressions on it, then that's good for our industry. What I will say, and Bobby, in a podcast maybe about a year ago, we talked about the UPS merchandise program that they had created for Fashion Week. And there was a similar argument that we had about this where on one hand, you can argue that UPS is kind of everywhere. It's obviously a very well-known brand. A lot of people associate UPS with frustration, losing packages, with stress. And yet they created this beautiful merchandise line and I think it was a brilliant move, but it was an example of where a brand that's known for X almost felt like they were reaching into another space, into another space that would be a lot more comfortable for other brands to maybe more natural for, you know, maybe a more challenger type brand within the, I don't know, transportation space to go and create something like that. So I feel it's interesting when brands maybe cross the threshold and they use merchandise as that expression.

I think you just unlocked something there. I think brands are using merch as the vehicle to get them across that chasm. So UPS is an industrial logistics business. There is nothing sexy about UPS. But the shops that they launched are phenomenal and they're designed with up and coming black designers, Hispanic designers. What they're doing is really cool. And I didn't really notice it until now, but they're using merch as the vehicle to cross that chasm, as you said. And in the case where I often say the merch is the concrete symbol of the abstract brand experience, there could be a disconnect there, or what some of these brands might be saying is Wait a minute, there is an element to us that is positive, good, and joyful. I mean, even UPS could argue that when you get your packages, when you get things that are sent to you, when you— things go right, right? There's a, there's a very positive part of that. Same with coffee. You could say the same thing about coffee. So it could be that some brands are not only trying to cross that chasm, but they also may be trying to elevate that one part of their brand experience.

Yeah, for sure. And I think at the end of the day, great branding, whether it's UPS, Tim Hortons, or the You know, the hipster coffee shop that you go to in Fayetteville or Oklahoma City is their branding is really all about emotional and emotional response. And if you can do that through a television ad, you can do it through a video campaign, you can do it through outdoor billboards, you can do it through subway advertising, or you could do it through merch and the fact that big, big budget advertisers are choosing to invest in merchandise to be the delivery vehicle for emotional response, I think is the big win.

Yeah.

I still believe it's a little, I, but at the same time, I still feel a little bit funny about how Tim Hortons has done this and I might get some hate mail for, from, from fans of Tim Hortons, but it does, it does feel like they've appropriated something here in this process with their big checkbook. Yeah.

Yeah. I, again, I, since I don't have an emotional connection, I just don't have a dog in that hunt. Right. You know what I mean? So, so speaking though of the emotional connection and merching, the brand experience is all about the emotional connection, the politics and potential divisiveness of merch. This is, this is not necessarily new, but it's new that it's ubiquitous. So a few days ago, Biden dropped a dark Brandon mug. It's a new version of his popular campaign mug. This one has color-changing glow-in-the-dark eyes. Now there's a whole history of the dark Brandon and meme that we don't have time to go into, nor can we unpack all the layers, nor do we need to. But anyone who has been in the business knows this ink-changing mug. Mark, it was one of the first most creative products that I sold, I'll admit, 20 years ago or more. I don't— it was a product that we sold to the YMCA when they were going through a brand change. And we had put the old logo and the new logo on the mug and it would, the colors would change as you went from the old logo to the new logo, which I thought was a height of creativity in the day of C-handle coffee mugs., but here we have Biden dropped the exact same mug with this color-changing eyes thing in this meme. So you have Biden's dark branded mug. You have Trump MAGA hats. You wrote this to me a week ago that merch is ultimately responsible for dividing the US more than any social media platform. It was, you said I exaggerate, but my, look how crazy people are with the MAGA hats and the New Yorker tote bags. I mean, get these people in the same room. Has merch become, this is just you asking rhetorically, has merch become a weapon? Is it because, does it contribute mute to divisiveness?

What do you think?

Yeah.

So to be clear, I don't know that I was saying that as a declarative statement. It was really as a question.

Right. It was a question.

Sure. And maybe the backdrop to that is over the last 10 years, there's been a lot of discussion about social media algorithms as being one of the most troubling aspects of society in terms of dividing people along ideological lines. Oh, right.

In context.

Yes. Right. And so many people that are way smarter than me will say that social media algorithms have created a lot of divisiveness. And I think that that's a fact, whether it doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, is that is a reality, right? Navigating technology and social media today. And many people use social media for great, and maybe some people that don't. And so that's something that's stuck in my head in terms of how it is that we as a society use social media as being aware of the problematic presence of algorithms. Yeah. And then, and in, in terms of being able to divide people. And so I was trying to draw a parallel to our little old industry that is always an afterthought, right? Like the social media algorithm algorithms, they're sexy, they're tech focused, they're the future. You come back to our little old industry., which is physical media, t-shirts and coffee cups, the swag business, the business that is the afterthought. And hang on a second here, moments after big cultural events happen, whether it's a politician's mugshot or whether it's the Biden example or whether it's something that happens in Canada or an international event, and the fact that that can hit merch sites. And rally the troops, so to speak, in terms of using it as a fundraising vehicle, using it as a way to embolden your side, to me is fascinating yet a little scary. I think, does our medium, are there parallels to the algorithm? So I don't know that I necessarily come down on either way, but I do think it's the kind of thing that nerds like you and I will talk about. And ask as a question. So I may be posing that as a question to you, and I'm also posing it to people that are listening to this to say, do I have that right? Am I exaggerating or am I totally wrong?

Yeah. Well, you recall we had a podcast recording. We did this crossover experience with Kirby and Bill at Promo Upfront. And I asked this question because one author called these social signifiers that we've now entered an era where merch has become a social signifier. So whether you're wearing a Chick-fil-A hat, whether you're wearing a MAGA hat, whether you're carrying a New Yorker tote bag. And I remember I went through this mental exercise of how you could, I ask, I ask folks for those that don't know what I'm talking about. I ask, I ask those on the podcast to close their eyes and think about a few different people wearing merch. One was a NASCAR fan at a NASCAR race wearing a NASCAR t-shirt and a Jeff Gordon hat, or someone who walked in at a coffee shop with a New Yorker tote bag, Trump supporter wearing a MAGA hat. A, someone at the grocery store wearing a Notorious RBG t-shirt with the image of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. So all these little exercises to help us realize that merch has become this huge social signifier. And back to your point, equating it with maybe the algorithms, it has become a way to demonstrably declare what camp you're in. And social media on one hand has made the democratization of your opinion In your personal expression, vital. Like you now have this place to express that opinion and merch sort of, it can, maybe it can stereotype, maybe it can offer that kind of negative opportunity.

Yeah, I think, I think it's worthwhile to consider it. And I think as our industry continues to become more respectable, I mean, Bobby, that's a term that you've used, right? The increasing respectability of our medium. As it continues to become more respectable, or as it continues to become more ubiquitous, as it continues to become more effective, which are all things that we as an industry celebrate. I mean, we have a vested interest in the success of the promotional products industry. We talk about this all the time, right? This movement away from trinkets and trash, the Elizabeth Segran Fast Company article, like we stand in the opposite camp there, even though she does have a point, right? We can link to that in the show notes if you have no idea what we're talking about. So it's interesting as to how, as we move towards this respectable, highly useful medium, is there a dark side to that? And I think that that's the question that we ask as an industry. And I think it's a really good position to find ourselves in because if we weren't asking these questions, we would be an irrelevant afterthought of an industry and all the money would go to YouTube ads and outdoor billboards and newspaper ads.

Yeah, back to that exercise I was just talking about. We've sort of transcended the Rolling Stones era t-shirt, which at one point was ubiquitous. It was everywhere, but wearing Rolling Stones t-shirt 30 years ago didn't prove what kind of camp you were in. It's now a part of how we express our unique individual identity. So at, at Venue's merch report for 2022, small and mid-cap concerts have the largest percentage of fans buying merch. So it's not just the Taylor Swift fans. Besides when you, when you bought that Rolling Stones shirt, like I said, it was ubiquitous. It was everywhere. But now someone wearing a Jason Nisbell t-shirt or Tyler Childers shirt or Jason Aldean shirt might be expressing a very strong cultural opinion. If I was wearing a 1973 t-shirt right now, you would, I am expressing a very bold opinion that you sort of get. That's why Tara Burton, the author of a book called Self-Made, in an interview with Matt Klein's magazine talked about this, that, that increasingly brands have become social signifiers, ways for us to convey our class tastes, moral sentiments, political opinions in an easily legible way. She was saying this is not necessarily a good thing. What I sort of ask distributors, and I'm asking rhetorically now, is that if this is the case, do you think merch has reached a point in time and culture where merch providers should carefully consider the moral and spiritual impact of the merch they create for clients? So as a distributor, you take a company's brand guidelines to navigate colors and fonts and logos. Do you now have a category that is like this sort of moral spiritual imperative? And if so, is that a healthy thing?

Does this darken what would be a fun category? I think it's a fascinating question. And I certainly don't think that either you or I have answers, but part of the question you posed on the Promo Upfront podcast was, do we have that obligation as merch sellers? And I gave examples at Right Sleeve back in our distributor days. That there were certain clients that we absolutely embraced because we had an opinion about their industries. We loved what they did. We were part of those industries. And so we built a great reputation within those industries. And there were other industries that we either A, didn't know a lot about, or B, may have felt a little bit more uncomfortable having supporting. So we would, politely pass on opportunities. Now, perhaps those industries didn't seek us out because we didn't market to them. But there were definitely lines of business and customers that we would've politely declined. No question. And I think regardless of what side of the spectrum you're on, I think if you're doing your job, you're servicing customers. And industries and movements that, that you feel strongly about for good or for bad. Right. And there's no judgment there. So I think, I think, I think it's important that we pick our clients properly, but my good client might be a terrible client for you and, and vice versa. And, and, and I don't think we should judge for that.

Yeah, I totally agree. There's a new crop of agencies. There's a whole organization around this now where I think it was something like 100 ad agencies had banded together to create this creative organization that was against anything that's going to be polluting the planet. So they're, they're this conglomerate that got together, created a website and said, this is us. We're not going to serve oil and gas. We're not going to serve all of these types of clients. Not only that, but they're outing a lot of the agencies who are. It's a really interesting divisive moment in terms of, of, of, you know, probably very well-meaning people trying to make an impact. But it's an interesting dividing line that's happening even that borders our world because we're in the creative.

Merch business.

I do want to mention this because we've gone down some darker paths that merch has always had a rightful spot in bringing joy to people. Always has. That's been like, that's been our place. That's our mainstay. I mean, we planted a flag in that joyful experience, surprise and delight for years. I think it's in part why this industry is so amazing, even as difficult as this business can be with supply chain and managing, you know, thousands and thousands of products and hundreds of projects for clients that are very demanding. You have deadlines. There's a couple of things that weight us to this world. One is that we love the chaos. Actually, we really do. And the second is that we love, we, we provide a fun experience. And I think this is something we should probably emphasize more with our customers, particularly as that agency report talked about this being the joy economy. That, that is the heart of what we do. And I think it should take a major place in our communication with clients, you know, beyond just the sourcing. You remember we just had Steven Musgrave speak at SKU Camp and talked about the 5-3-1. He talked about the questions that you should be asking customers. 5 of the questions were the normal questions. When do you want it? What kind of product do you want? What's the art look like? Those kinds of basic questions everybody knows. Then he said there should be 3 value-driven questions, 3 value-driven questions you should ask your customer frequently, like almost daily. What's this for? What's going to be the net result of this? And then one personal question, but the reason I'm going to this is because I think we have to proactively claim the stake in the joy economy and actually communicate that with our clients that way.

I agree with you. And maybe my question back to you is clearly we're using examples right now that are very high profile, right? That create emotional connection, right? For the most part, very positive emotional connections, right? Tim Hortons merged. Dunkin's merch, right? UPS merch. No one's buying that because they hate the brand. They're buying it because they're proud. They might be, as I said, they might be wearing it ironically. They might be wearing it because they love it, but they're, they're not buying it because they hate the brand. That's for sure. Yes. If we maybe look down a, a layer or two in the industry and go, well, I've got a client that's at a trade show and they need to get some lollipops or they need to get some stickers or whatever to pass out to people that are stopping by the booth. To me, that feels like it's in a slightly different category than this high design, high intentionality merchandise. That, that seems a little bit more run of the mill. Um, lots of people listening to this podcast and certainly myself included did lots of that kind of business. And so maybe what I'm trying to say in a roundabout way is that not all promotional campaigns are necessarily created equal and do we need to Do we need to necessarily set that high a bar that promotional products create this emotional response, that they create joy in absolutely every campaign that we do? Can we forgive ourselves if someone just wants to order 100 t-shirts for some staff as a uniform, or they want to order some stickers for a trade show booth? Sure.

I think that's the ubiquitous part of our, I mean, that is the flexible part of our industry, right? You could have simply staff uniforms. But I would still go back to, I remember this project that we did for a customer. Now, this was when the days when we were looking for stories with our client about project that we sort of moved beyond just product marketing and we wanted to sort of tell the story behind the project. And we had the local nonprofit PBS affiliate, OETA, come to us and say, look, we're a nonprofit. We have no budget, but we need to go to this trade show and we want to hand out something to draw parents and kids to our booth. And we literally have no budget. And so we came up with stickers and because they were affiliated with the PBS National Broadcasting System, they had access to licensing rights for Sesame Street and for some of the other iconic characters that would be on the stickers. So we created this, just stickers with the pictures of those with the local OEAA logo on it. My point is that it was a lesson for us because honestly, it was like a $500 order. Yeah. And it was a lesson for us as we were telling stories. It was like, you know what? We keep, we kept looking for the big orders, like the $30,000 order that was a safety campaign that helped to re, um, create this safety incentive that added 5% to the bottom line or saved lives or something dramatic like that. When in reality, we had a $500 order that had a really fun story with an emotional connection behind it. But it was a very boring product. And so it taught me that even when somebody calls you up, that sort of curmudgeonly buyer at the bank who just needs to order some damn pens for their giveaway, there's still an emotional connection behind it. Yeah.

Well, and it sounds like your team at Robin at the time really thought about how to make an impact. I mean, you could have just slapped their logo, one color, one location on the coasters and been done with it. Or, or sorry, the product that you just talked about, but you thought a little bit more deeply about it. So I think that your point is that even for those smaller orders and more routine orders, that there is that opportunity to think more creatively in a more storytelling type, type manner.

Yeah. Thankfully our industry exists. It was such a— sorry to interrupt— broad. We have such broad opportunities, right?

It's not always true. So I'm glad that because I think we're talking about two extremes, right? I think that we're putting UPS Fashion Week and Tim Hortons on this high pedestal because the orders are probably that could have easily been in the millions, right?

So, right.

And they're very high profile, very sexy. Someone made a lot of money on that and obviously worked their butts off on it.

Right.

And then, but I think you did a really nice job of tying a line between that and the $500 coaster or sticker order. Right. You still have that opportunity. Also use this opportunity, given that we just came back from SKU Camp in Austin, that we heard this great story from one of our speakers, Leanne Davey, who is an author. She doesn't have, she doesn't have the budget of Tim Hortons. Right. Small world story. She works with SCORE Promotions in Toronto and gave them a shout out from stage where she had a limited budget as an author to go and promote this book. And she needed coasters and SCORE worked with her to come up with custom neoprene coasters that she could throw into the audience. So the requirement was, I wanna make sure I'm not injuring people. So you're not gonna do that with a, with that kind of coaster. They're gonna be light. They're going to be reusable. They're the lights so that she can put them in her carry-on as she travels to speaking engagements. And I mean, I'm sure that order was probably no more than $500, but here is a marketer that is using promotional merchandise where a creative element has been incorporated that understands what it is she's ultimately trying to do. So kudos to Scorp Promotions for thinking outside the box there. Absolutely.

And what I love about Leanne's story is that she, I forgot the phrase, but she's all about saying that contention friction and strife and sort of creative disagreements should be normal for us. And she put a phrase of hers on the coaster so that when people are in the boardroom and they were having some kind of disagreement, they remember, oh yeah, it's perfectly normal for us to have disagreements in this kind of setting. So that was really cool, both to Scora and to Leanne for thinking purpose first and product second. Anyways, I think the most enjoyable part of this, Mark, is you and I have been at this long enough to remember time and day when there wasn't enough through line to the purpose for product. It was just get us the stuff. And that can be a very normal part of our experience. In fact, that's a normal part of every distributor's everyday experience. But thankfully, we've also elevated the industry in the sense of a profession where people now come to us for a very purpose-driven aspect of the business.

Yes. And certainly, I don't think that we're stumbling across this as some new insight. I think this is something that you and I learned from other experts in, in our earlier time in the industry. But I think what the point is, is that as a distributor or as a supplier, you know, whatever part of the process you're, or whatever part of the chain you're involved in, that there are opportunities for creativity from a design perspective, but also creativity and understanding what that end client is looking to ultimately achieve. And, and without question, people who invests the creative time and invests the time to really understand what the client is trying to do is, is going to create a promotion with impact. And that, I'm not saying anything new. Maybe a part of me is also thinking about our experience. We, as I just mentioned, we just came back from SKU Camp and we have promotional branded merchandise as a key part of what we do and working in conjunction with our supplier sponsors. And, and we're effectively playing the role of a distributor as we're designing each of these logos. Which particular product, why we're producing that product, how they're going to interact with each other, how they're going to be photographed, how we want people to react when they receive it, how we're going to display and merchandise it when people get there. That is so much more than, can you print 200 t-shirts? I mean, we printed t-shirts. Yeah. But that printing of the t-shirts was like maybe a hundredth of the work that went into it. And, and it was really special to see the kind of emotional response that came from it. And it proves that this works and it proves when you spend the time and you care about what the end client experience is going to be like.

Right. To close this out, if, if you suffered enough to listen to Mark and I share our opinions about all of this, I want to share with you one more thing. And that is that we have a newsletter that we release on the first and third Friday of each month called the Backpack. And a lot of this we unearth through our research of what's going on in the market with merch trends through the back. I bring it up because not only would we love for our SKU Cast subscribers to have a newsletter subscriber, it's great for your team. It's great to send it to them because they can see what's going on in the pulse of the market and the marketplace, because to tie it all together, what's happening with political merch, what's happening with the ban merch, protest merch, whatever you want to call it, there are now new phrases popping up every day. Is a huge part of this cultural moment we're having where merch has arrived as a very viable and visible and powerful point of connection with people. So check it out. Go to, just Google Common Skew Backpack and you'll find the backpack newsletter. Subscribe. We'd love to have you tune into that as well. So Mark, until next time, my friend.

Thanks, Bobby.

This was fun.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SKU Cast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SKU Cast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commsku.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening. Mm-hmm.