Episode 316: Storm Creek's Trailblazing Vision with Doug Jackson and Teresa Fudenberg

Welcome to Skucast, the podcast for entrepreneurs in the promotional products industry. Skucast shines a light on our industry's best work, features maverick personalities, and discusses what's really involved in running a modern promotional products business. SkewCast is the official podcast of Common Skew. Storm Creek is truly a unique story in the promo space. Founded in 1995, they designed and created their first eco jacket in 2012, long before sustainability had become common parlance in our industry. In 2018, they launched an elevated eco-wear outer line. And by 2019, their full Eco collection came to life. You know, we throw around the phrase OG a lot, but they are truly the OGs of eco in our industry. They've upcycled 30 million plastic bottles into cozy, sustainable apparel. And get this, in 2019, they became members of 1% for the Planet and the Minnesota Keystone Program, donating over 5% of profits to charitable organizations. In total, they have given over $2.3 million to charity with a goal to give $5 million by 2030. Storm Creek's Doug Jackson, President, and Teresa Fudenberg, CEO, both join me today to talk about their sustainability journey, their passion for impact. And since they're the OGs of eco, we talk about today's buyer demands, how it's changed, and their practical tips on how we as distributors can make eco a priority with our clients. You know, at Common Skew, one of our values is to create delightful work. Delightful work for you and your team, and delightful work between suppliers and distributors. So I thought before my chat with Doug and Teresa, I wanted to call Aaron Smith, Storm Creek's Strategic Account Executive, to chat for just about 5 minutes here in the intro about how distributors and suppliers can work better together. Here's my brief chat with Aaron. You are such a great, great human being, and you've done a lot of work connecting Common Skew distributors with Storm Creek. And I think it's an incredible partnership because Common Skew distributors are very progressive, very conscientious. Storm Creek is a very progressive, conscientious brand. Thank you, my friend, for bringing us together, both Storm Creek and Common Skew. And because of that, how would you encourage us as distributors to work better together with you? And folks at Storm Creek.

Sure, Bobby, that's just, again, such a nice introduction, and I feel like you're really giving me way too much credit here. I'm just a big fan of the CommonSKU platform and the community that you all have built. I really do view it as the future of the promo space. I haven't been here for very long. I've been in sales for a very long time, but as I've mentioned, you and the SKU Cast are a big reason why I made the leap from the cycling industry into promo, and I can't thank you guys enough because of the community that you've built and that I get to be a part of. So thank you.

By the way, were you out there on your bike just listening to podcast episodes?

How did that work?

I was actually into up the nerdiness level for those of you who do cycle. I was listening to the Skewcast while talking with Storm Creek about making the leap on Zwift. So I was on a bike on a trainer playing a video game. In my basement.

That's next level.

Yeah, I'm pretty nerdy. I'm pretty nerdy. I'm a big data guy, but anyways, as far as back to your question about how distributors can work best with us as a supplier, it really comes down to really asking questions and presenting things not as like a transaction, right? Hey, you have— I need this hoodie. You have a hoodie that seems to fit. Let's see how much it is. Does it fit into the timeline, et cetera? Much more about My client has this event, or my client's trying to accomplish this. What do you have that might be able to help us in your experience solve this client's problem? And those questions and those problems, Bobby, and this isn't anything new. I'm not saying anything like TED Talk level here, right? Everyone knows this in sales, but that's where you get the really fun, interesting solutions that I think build those relationships that you can stand on for years to come.

But you know what I just learned from you, Aaron, is that yes, that may be something that we do, or pros learn to do with our clients after a while, and asking about intent and purpose. But you know what we do sometimes is we put you in a pigeonhole and we say, hey, we just talked with you about that particular hoodie, rather than saying to you, because you're the expert on your line, hey, I want some info on the hoodie, but can you share with me what else might fit this particular project? Is that kind of what you're getting at?

Yes, absolutely. I think that not just treating us— and with our brand specifically, and I know I'm probably doing ourselves a disservice here, but we make amazing jackets. We make amazing outerwear, right? But we also make a really great polo, we make a really great quarter zip. But those are the things that, because we've been making those great jackets for so many years, we can sometimes be seen as an outerwear brand when really we're a complete line. So yeah, absolutely.

Really good point. Since you are such a tech-forward supplier salesperson, strategic account executive, you work with national accounts and you're very tech-forward. How do things like the insights feed on Commonsku help you as a supplier?

Oh man, the insights feed is just like game-changing for me as a supplier. And the reason why I say that is it's not just nice to see how people are doing things. It's much more from a leading indicator standpoint, right? So often when we're presenting, when we're talking with our distributor partners, we're really not seeing the fruits of that labor until the PO is already in our hands, right? We already have the order. We might not even be aware that it's coming down the pipeline.. But now I have this way to say, okay, I went and I met with Jenny Mark, right? And we had this great presentation. I felt really good about it. And I'm immediately seeing the results of that on the insights feed in real time. And more importantly, I can reach out and really connect and say, oh, hey, I noticed that you presented this product. I might have some background information about maybe we're selling a lot of it. And if they want to act on it, we need to get going pretty quickly here, right? Or maybe we're bringing another product in to replace that product. So just things like that really help help us provide value to our distributors proactively, not just reactively.

Yeah, more transparency into that selling pipeline and that process. You are— Storm Creek is now Connected Plus supplier, so that means you've worked hard with the— at getting with our team the promo standards integration in place. How do you see this changing the way we do business going forward?

Yeah, Bobby, I do think that in general, the older way of doing business, right, where you're calling up your suppliers every day and you're asking for inventory or pricing or quotes whatever it is that you need and getting— that's a lot of time and energy that we're spending just trying to find out information that things like promo standards, common SKU are really just bringing to the forefront right away for you. Right? So you're saving time, you're saving energy, but from as a supplier side of things, that's really cutting down on my opportunity to approach you and provide value as a supplier. Right? So it's an existential crisis to the way that we're doing business. I'm not really necessary if you can just go online and figure everything out by yourself. Commonsku provides that kind of two-way communication where now I'm not just being cut out of the process, but rather I'm able to insert myself in the process where I think I can have the maximum impact.

Yeah. Yeah, far more strategic intelligence and a great use of you and your expertise. You know what? That's a phenomenal world. I know I'm on the team and I'm supposed to be the cheerleader, but honestly, to me, I get really excited about that because when I worked with clients as a distributor, that was the most exciting part, was thinking strategically with my clients. Aaron, Thank you, my friend, for doing this. I love having you here on SKU Cast. Before we were talking with Teresa and Doug, your whole team is just absolutely amazing. So thanks for taking the time to do this.

Thank you so much. This has been truly a bucket list item for me in the promo space. Thank you so much, Bobby.

That was Aaron Smith, Strategic Account Executive at Storm Creek. And now let's get on to my conversation with Doug Jackson and Teresa Fudenberg. Today's episode is brought to you by CommsCue, the work-from-anywhere platform that powers your connected workflow, enabling you to process more orders, dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commonsku.com. Here's Doug and Teresa. Teresa and Doug from Storm Creek, welcome to the SkuCast.

Thank you. It's great to be here, Bobby. Great to see you.

Thanks, Bobby. Yeah, we're excited to be here.

Your story is amazing. And Doug, I'm going to start right with you because you started the company in '95, 1995, making private label apparel for the promo industry. But what kind of blows my mind, and I don't know how many people realize this, you made your first eco jacket in 2012. That's crazy. Out of recycled bottles. So you were eco before eco was cool. So fast forward to 2024, you've upcycled over 32 million plastic bottles into apparel. How does it feel to finally have the market kind of catch up with you?

Well, it's, it's actually, we're at 36 million now. So that's exciting. But you know what, it, it's, it's super fun to to get people more excited now. So that is very exciting for us. But there is just a long ways to go. You know, there's just a lot of people that talk about it and then don't always follow up 'cause they might be scared. They don't really, you know, sometimes they don't move forward 'cause, oh, I gotta be able to answer questions. But the eco-focused ones are really getting serious. So, and I think a lot of the end customers, the end users are pushing it hard to the distributors. So that's helping. So it's, it's very fun to see. And it's also fun that they're asking more questions and they want to see accountability and the certificates and all that. So it's fun to see that they're taking it serious and they're not scared as much, you know, but like I said, there's a long ways to go.

Yeah. I hear you. I think most founders of businesses who have incubated ideas or started ideas for businesses would be inspired to know what sparked your original vision, because that had to come from somewhere intrinsically back when it wasn't like you were hopping on a train, like there was no train to success then. That was, that was original.

And so what sparked that? You know, so I'm from the ski industry and then I went to outdoor retailers. I would always go to the ski industry shows. I would go to the outdoor retailer shows. I'd go to ISPO. And but every year from show to show, you know, we go to 2 shows a year, but you would just see more and more, right? And like even just going out to a retailer, you would see you know, the Patagonias of the world and all the European guys, all of a sudden they're talking about recycled bottles and they're talking about, you know, things, you know, the outdoor industry is all about the environment, right? Every speaker was about the environment. So you just knew it was coming and it got louder and louder, right? So I learned a lot about it, but the key was I spent probably 2 to 3 months a year in Asia and probably, and it was before I had my own business, but I was kind of forced to go over there for a certain amount of time. And I got to be very good friends with a lot of fabric suppliers. I'd go, I had golf, actually, I just found out, Teresa, that my golf clubs are still in Jesse's closet. So I had golf clubs there. You know, I just, we had so much fun and I got to be really good friends. And so one day, one of the suppliers, he, he said, Doug, I just, one of our big, you know, one of our big brands that could afford to buy Eco canceled an order. And it got me like, that was in probably 2011 because I was too afraid to buy it because I'm like, oh God, it's too much stock and I can't afford this. Right. But I was so excited about it. So I took the plunge and we bought it and it got me excited about that whole process.

That's very cool. Well, fast forward again to 2019, Teresa, Storm Creek became a member of 1% for the Planet. Now I skipped a lot of history there. So there's a lot of stories that I just skipped over and glossed over. So I'm sorry. For that, but in the essence of time, you became a member of 1% for the Planet, and in 2020 you committed to giving $5 million to charity by 2030. You became a certified women-owned business in 2021 and surpassed $2.1 million to charity in 2023. Can you give us— I mean, this is astounding numbers. Like, can you give us an example of some of the charities you support?

Sure, sure. Well, first and foremost, again, hopping over from the outdoor industry, 1% for the Planet was a no-brainer. Yeah. And, you know, really woven into what we were aiming to do. But what I love about 1% is you can direct your dollars to things that are most meaningful because it's an association of nonprofits and that are committed obviously to making a change in the planet and environment. And so we do a lot with the National Parks Foundation, and that really went higher in 2020 when everybody was taking advantage of the opportunity to be out and recreating in those parks. They do also all happen to sell Storm Creek, which is a really cool, you know, integration. But those parks take take a lot of wear and tear with all the people that are using them. So we direct a lot of dollars to there. That's awesome. We just came off of Women's History Month, and we did a really cool promotion— well, not— I don't know if I want to call it promotion, just collaboration with other women-owned businesses, other women-owned distributors, and said that we will give 10% of all their sales in March to Girls on the Run. And what I love about that is just really thinking about empowering the next generation and giving them the confidence at an early age. And they're going to be— they're going to be our next peers. And same with like Big Brothers Big Sisters. I mean, those our next leaders. Those are the people that if we make a strong impact now, we're all going to benefit from that. And so being able to mentor them, we do some career days here, but also just we give them clothing for their families and just some really exciting things. So all in all, just really trying to tie what we represent and do, you know, every day with our apparel and then crossing over with our industry of women-owned distributors and other distributors, and then certainly what we can do for the environment.

Now, so that folks will understand how you both split your roles, like, Teresa, you're kind of more ops, right? And Doug is product and sales.

I'm gonna get it backwards. You know, I have a little way of explaining that if it helps. And it's, it's really interesting if you know anything about running on EOS or traction.

You're about to say EOS.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, there's probably some orange behind me on my bookshelf, but in theory, we're both real visionaries. And so thankfully we have an integrator on board that can work with us, but we're very different kind of visionaries. And I'm really all about the brand and the people and the partnerships and, and really the business strategy. And Doug obviously is born out of product and you've never seen someone so passionate and just so forward-thinking as it relates to that. And as a result of that passion, he belongs in those big relationships and converting those big customers and small customers over to just thinking differently about apparel and getting them off on board. He's got them eaten out of his hands when he tells his story and talks about products. So kind of co-visionaries in that regard.

Yeah, that's great.

This is not my strong point, so— Okay, all right, all right, I had it wrong, I had it wrong.

But, but for those that know, and we have, we have quite a few that follow, uh, the EOS or interested and they're familiar with the integrator world, that's that ops person that we're talking about. But two visionaries. Your team of— correct me if I'm wrong— your team of around 40 people?

Around 40 people. That's right.

I just want to stop and pause for a minute and say, you know, we have a lot of folks that talk about how they can make a difference and they typically are comparing themselves to very, very large organizations. And that's— Storm Creek is not— you look at the impact compared to the size of your business. And I know, of course, sales volume-wise, you're running a phenomenal business. That's impressive. But really, you're doing some amazing work. And you're an inspiration to all of us. Anyway, in your early days at Storm Creek, it was clear that you were trying to be all things to all people. You had a retail and a corporate division that created somewhat of a fragmented focus. Is that right? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, I can do that. That's for sure. And what decided—

what made you sort of decide to concentrate on promo? Because that's where you've put more of your focus, correct?

Since the early days that I've been at Storm Creek, that's definitely been the focus, but it's then led to proper growth on other channels. But, you know, really, it— you know, you've heard the term squirrel. Yeah. Or the tail wagging the dog. And in just— promo is— I was new to it, so that's another thing. I came in new to it, so I had a quick realization that you have one chance to do it right. You know, there's a certain structure, there's a certain protocol. There's obviously the way the channel works. There's an alphabet soup acronym soup thing going on that you had to learn really quick. And, and we really wanted to get it right and we wanted to get it right the first time. And we really wanted to know the key players, understand the channel, have the inventory that we needed, the sales resources that were needed. And so once we understood that we didn't want to go in and just halfway and just be a brand that was available to promo, we wanted to nail that all right. Everything from again, sales sales, marketing, inventory ops, all that kind of stuff, service and whatnot. But then having that down allowed us to really go in on the sustainable front in 2017 to 2020. I think Doug did an amazing job of getting that honed in and turned around and 100% in place by 2020, and, and then moving on to scaling. But because we did that properly, it allowed us to go back into retail full force, kind of the second time around, I would say. Not that we ever really left, but that focus then allowed us to go in strong to retail and direct-to-consumer more aggressively easily, scalably.

That's interesting. Yes, that's fascinating. Let's talk a little bit about sustainability and eco, because I know this is going to sound basic, but Doug, what does the— you have a wonderful tagline, sustainability in every stitch. What does that mean to you?

When we started, basically what happened is I was overseas on a trip and I realized that we could, we could truly make a complete line, you know, because we're, we're an outdoor apparel company with waterproof, breathable things that can handle any kind of weather. And then some basic, you know, now we're even doing doing t-shirts. But so we have a complete line and it's not easy, right? We have some really high-tech fabrics and the big companies can push a supplier to make whatever they want. We had to use what the market had available. So it was available then. And what's happening is with demand comes more supply. And so the supply just became available. And so Pretty much every trip I'm learning new things that they're making available to us. So we have things that over time we've increased the sustainability probably 3 times in 3 years because the different yarns available. Oh, and now we can do recycled here and now we can— you know what I mean? So we're constantly changing. So our view is we're seekers of better. Anytime we can do something better, we're going to do it. That's cool. And so that's kind of the deal. And so constantly changing it. It's a constant thing that we're trying to evolve and get more and more in it. And I truly believe after this last trip that the whole thing about a circular product line and all that, I think it's very attainable in the future. I really do. I think we're in a really good place because money's coming into this market.

That's really encouraging. Speaking of money, by the way, Seekers of Better, that should be on a t-shirt somewhere. Somebody should be like, Seekers of Better. That's fantastic. It's really good marketing.

Y'all are good at that.

Yeah.

So how is the market demand— like we were talking about the money coming in the market. How's the market demand changed for sustainable and eco apparel, particularly over the past maybe 3 or 4 years? It's really changed, right? We're seeing a velocity like we haven't seen before.

Yes. Yeah. It's especially this past year. Like it's, it's crazy. The change, you know, I think there, there was a lot of talk like 2 or 3 years ago, you know, 4 years ago, I don't know, but a couple years ago you started seeing more and more talk.

Yeah.

I think this year it's— there's more serious people.

Yeah.

You know, like our demand for certifications, like we've had certifications since 2020 on everything. Like I could, I could give you more documents that you'd ever want to see, but now people are actually asking for them.

Yeah.

So it's really fun to see because we're, we're all about having transparency. So it's, The people are asking now, so that's good.

Yeah. Teresa, what are your thoughts on that?

Well, I, I gotta go back to new in promo and that jacket that— so I'm, I'm on board late 2014. We still have a jacket from, from 2012. Lots of inventory. And I remember the whole ban on single—

who the heck are you, Doug? Why are you buying this thing?

The whole ban on single-use plastic bags was like all in the news, right? And we go to the PPAI show in January and they said Someone goes, I'm from California. And I'm like, oh, I got the jacket for you. Look at this, it's made out of recycled bottles. And like zero interest. And so fast forward to now, obviously it's a completely different landscape, but I can say very, very few times now do I get someone that says, oh, my end user just isn't interested. And you cannot ignore the stats. I mean, you just can't. And so just even when you say that they're not I'll say sometimes, oh, who is it? Let's pull up their website. And I pull up their website and I'm like, oh, look at this right here. They're super interested in this. Their employee base is super interested because, hey, there's so many different elements of this at play between like what the consumers want and demand, what the corporations want, what employees demand. So yeah, I love it. I love the change.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I do too. Doug, as an OG of eco, if you will, you've had to watch a lot of greenwashing both in our industry and others. How can a distributor make sense of all of that out there?

I always tell, I always tell people to ask a lot of questions, and, and I think they have to lean on suppliers. You know, I think, I think there's a lot of people that are scared, right? You know, they don't want to, they don't want to look stupid because I can't answer the questions. And, but they, like I always say, you know, if you ever have a question, ask us. Just ask the questions and keep, keep asking. Because yes, there is there's the greenwashing and there's a lot of that. But I think we truly have to have certifications and more people are demanding it. So just start asking. It can make them more comfortable. And we're not the only one doing this. So they just have to ask just the questions and ask for certifications if they want it to make sure.

Yeah, the CommsCUE community, Teresa, is full of folks who love Storm Creek, and we have found a lot of resonance with you in Storm Creek. What appealed to you to get involved with the CommsCUE community?

Well, it's interesting because I remember hearing about it in my earliest days of promo. One of our reps, I believe, said, there's this thing going on, SCUEcon. And I was like, is that like Comic-Con? And he goes, and he goes, this is going to change the world. And I said, oh, well, in the meantime, you know, we're heads down building what we were building, right? I don't even think we, you know, we dabbled, we, you know, had some discussions and stuff, but quite honestly, our early years were really spent on doubling down on being the company that we wanted to be. And I'm, I'm really kind of glad about that because we waited a little bit to join. And what was super important is having that point person who I, I know you know is Aaron Smith from our organization. But, you know, and you can tell the difference in the way that the community is, even without being involved, to know that it's transforming the industry and it's so many people on the same page. And it just wasn't the right time until a couple years ago for us to get all in involved. And we really needed that owner. And once you have that owner, watch out, because Aaron is so enmeshed with the people there. And anytime you want to talk to him about it, I mean, you're going to lose an hour of your time because he talks so much about just the community, the ethos, the focus on educating and Knowing that you're with a group of people who want to lead promo into the next and the next and the next and just be helping each other out too. I mean, it can be sustainability, it could be other education, just, but the movement toward technology, high quality, sustainability, and certainly debunking some of the hard hits we've had as an industry, as you know. And so it's great. It's great that we're involved. And I'm happy to hear that we get good marks from the community too.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great lesson for suppliers, for other folks that are trying to learn the business and learn that you've got a point person like Aaron Smith. Hi Aaron, I know you're probably listening and we love you. The Commsky community loves you and thank you for all your passion. But, but that's a great tip that you have to have a point person really involved with community. It is a community. Let's talk a little bit about EOS just for a second because you are—

you just a second.

Yeah, I know you love this. You were being a little modest because you had EOS Worldwide producers in your office recently to capture some of the aspects of your company from your Level 10 meetings to Samepage meetings. Why did you adopt EOS and kind of what impact has it had on your partnership?

This partnership? Bobby, first off, the producer from EOS, his name is Bobby and you guys are literally like brothers. You're both super kind, so well spoken, really fun to talk to and do such a great job of just understanding an organization. So I just wanted to share that fun fact. Thank you. You know, back to the squirreling and all of that, tail wagging the dog. Everybody said, you need to read this book, but I had no time. So I didn't read the book. And then Doug read the book and he said, of all people who need to read this book, it's you. You will devour it. So I did. And, you know, I think—

About 3 months later.

Yes, of course. Yes.

Yes. Right. And I do think that we didn't have the focus, we didn't have the accountability, and thus you don't have the results and you're hitting the ceiling, you know, just not getting traction. It sounds so common, but we are like the textbook reason to run on EOS for all those things I just mentioned. And I feel like we've been the textbook result of running on EOS and the impact. I do not think our partnership, business or professional, would have survived without it. And I know that seems like a really bold statement. I know I'm not paid to say that, but the key is, is businesses of anything of a small to medium-sized business, you know, and I'm talking up to 500 or 1,000 employees, can benefit because you can't be everything to everyone. And what's most important is that when you are on the same page as a leadership team and that— and you can articulate that vision to your team and that purpose, you know, I think the biggest thing that we've done over time and why I like working at Storm Creek is having a purpose. And we didn't have that purpose. We didn't even have— like, I could plan strategy meetings for days. That was what I came from. But I didn't use this tool, and it didn't have the simplicity, it didn't have the clarity, it didn't it didn't have the transformational ability. So yeah, it's been a game changer. And I'm super thankful for it because it's why we are where we are today. And that makes it fun because it's supposed to be fun.

Yeah, that's a great point. That's a really great point. Before I move on to the last two questions, Doug, are there any other thoughts on that you want to add to it?

It's okay if not. Just as Teresa said, it's been so beneficial to us.

Yeah, it's great.

It's great. Well, let's talk a little bit about industry and future outlook because, I mean, Doug, you nailed it way back then in terms of where the industry was going. And as you look at the industry in its current climate, particularly in regard to transparency in manufacturing, which is becoming a big deal this year— that's the biggest time I've— biggest time I've ever— or the biggest year I've ever seen in regards to transparency and the future of eco. Do you feel more positive about our industry making a difference in a responsible future through smarter product choices?

For sure, without a doubt. You know, I think so. I'm hearing more and more people talk about HIG and Worldly, you know, Ecovada, you know, but, but like there's so many people asking those questions now. You know, we, we joined HIG 18 months ago. No one knew who it was.

Right.

You know, I'd make comments, no one. But now they're actually coming to us and saying, hey, do you guys have, you know, this, do you have this? And so We're going through all these evaluations, which helps the industry, right? Because it just becomes—

but, but my—

I was just overseas last month and I came home like, boy, is the world changing. And so you can tell the investment going into sustainability is over the top, like truly over— like fabric mills are going all in. Like one of the fabric mills I was at, they're actually, they're actually starting to recycle full garments. So why would they do that? That's a crazy thing to think about. So that's very exciting. Every one of them that I met with is taking scraps now and they figured out how to do that and turn it into yarns. One of them was talking about they feel that they can make their recycled polyester so it's biodegradable in not too So, you know, I always say that the world will figure out some of these problems that go on and, you know, and they're putting the money towards it. So, so that just makes me feel good that it's going to happen, right?

So yeah, I love that. It's such a refreshing and positive outlook and a way to look forward. I just love how you both just tend to look forward all the time. Seekers of better. Seekers of better. Last question, Theresa, how would you advise a distributor today working with their clients to make eco a priority? It's almost as if we don't have to anymore, but I think we do. I think we still have to make sure we are taking these solutions to our clients in a proactive way, not just waiting for those to come. Are there practical things you would advise based on your best clients and distributor practices?

Yeah, I would agree. You still have to advise. And as Doug said, you can't be afraid of not knowing the answers. I mean, it's just like promo. It's alphabet soup and you're like, oh shoot, I'm not going to know what they mean by this standard or that emission or this group or whatever. But it all starts with asking, and what are your goals in sustainability? And sustainability just isn't on the environmental side, it's obviously on the social side. It's, it's the ability to leave things better than we found it. And so it might come up that they value diversity, it might come up that they value companies with purpose and give-back missions. They might— and so there's just a whole lot to unpack in just understanding what's important to them and their goals, which will some way surround this word sustainability, and then find out how I can help. And even if there is no way that they supposedly can help, bringing one sustainable option to every presentation and just demonstrating what— and getting the conversation going. More and more, we're getting asked for measurements, of course, as we said, and that's because they're getting asked for measurements. And so the ability for us to demonstrate, hey, let's have some fun with this. You're looking at 2,000 jackets. This one has an average of 36 upcycled bottles. Let's do the math. Let's send them a note. Let's send them a note that they could share in their company newsletter and show what they did. Let's help them look good. I mean, who— so again, it's all about we want to help the distributors look good and we want them to help their customer look good, whether they thought of it or not. So, you know, just really raising the bar and asking the questions and requesting that documentation, kind of expecting that your supplier should provide all that and, you know, helping with the measurement. But yeah, I think it makes noise about it and, and help them be the hero.

I love that. Doug, any final words on that?

I think she said it well.

Said it very well. I have never felt more optimistic about this industry, and I can honestly say it's thanks in large part to partners like you guys. And, and you have— you've just inspired us all. Well, thank you. Thank you. Seekers of better, right? I'm not going to lose that phrase. It's my favorite phrase lately. So thank you, Doug and Teresa, for joining us. This has been a very inspiring visit, like I thought it would be, and our community is going to love it, but appreciate you and all the work you do with us.

All right, thanks to you. We appreciate it. We'll get you that Secrets of Better t-shirt. Yes.

Okay, I'll look for that. Talk soon. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of SkewCast. Be sure to keep up with our latest content by subscribing to SkewCast on iTunes or to our blog at community.commskew.com. Until next time, friends, thanks so much for listening.