Episode 345: Why Experiences Beat Deliveries Every Time with Dean Caravelis (Blezoo)

What if your marketing didn't just deliver a message but created an experience that people actually remember? And what if the secret to growth wasn't in doing more, but in doing less with precision? Well, on today's show, we're talking about designing experiences that are meant to be remembered, not just delivered. And we're diving into why personal touch, not just automation, especially in the age of AI, might be the most powerful currency for our industry's future. Welcome to the SkewCast, the podcast for innovators and maverick thinkers in the promotional product space. My name is Bobby LeHew. I'm glad you're here. Dean Karavelas is the founder of Blazoo, a marketing agency with a knack for creating branded merch that connects. Dean's a marketer at heart, having come from the buyer side before building his own distributorship, and he's now the author of a new book, The Experience in a Box Playbook: Touchpoints That Change the Game. It's a smart and actionable guide for turning swag into strategy. Join us as we talk with Dean about how to shift from mass marketing to precise, intentional outreach and why that shift is more critical today, and also why experiences need to be designed to be remembered, not just checked off a delivery list. Today's episode is brought to you courtesy of us at Commenscue. Over 900 distributors powering $1.8 billion in network volume rely on Commenscue's connected workflow, process more orders, connect your team, and dramatically grow your sales. To learn more, visit commonsku.com. Now here's my chat with Dean. Welcome to the Skucast. Good to have you back again.

It's good to be back. I appreciate the invite to come and chat again. Yeah, it's fun to talk to you, Bobby.

Last time we visited, you were obviously at Skucamp talking about your experience in your business, and you just, as I mentioned in the intro, you just dropped a brand new book. What made you write? What inspired you to write the experience in a box playbook?

Well, you know, I don't know if it's one of those bucket list things where, you know, you want to write a book at some point in your life. And I talked to Pat Williams, one of the founders of the Orlando Magic, several years ago, who had written over 100 books. And he told me, don't write a book unless it's burning inside you to get out. And I sat on that for a while. And at one point I said, I think I have things that I need to get out. So I started writing. And realized after a little while that I was writing 3 books and, you know, that's not going to be for good reading, right? So I decided to focus on one thing, like what's the most burning thing that's looking to come out and it's related to my business. And that's when I wrote the Experience in a Box Playbook. It became more natural once I decided to just focus on one thing and at that point got it done and Really, probably about 8 months, but you know, it's, it's kind of up in the air how long it takes to do things, right? There's some books that can be done quickly, some take a while.

Someone said it can take 8 months to write it. It took 10 months to live it, or 10 years to live it and 8 months to write it. How, give us a premise for those that are new to the book. Give us a premise, a synopsis of what the book's about.

The Experience in a Box Playbook is really about swag. I mean, it's throughout the entire book. But I think if you zoom out a little bit, the book is more about how you think about your brand, how you can differentiate yourself by kind of changing the game on how you approach things, how to think about marketing and how to think about business development as well. And so it, it's kind of a, you know, like you said, it can take years to write a book. Yeah, it took me 17 years to write this book ever since I decided to, to start Blazoo. So, It's, it's about all those things, but it's really talking to marketing managers about how they can reinvent their brand and how they can create a new world for their brand to live within.

I read your bio at the beginning, at the top of the show. And so you have this experience as a marketer, like you come from, you know, leading companies in marketing. So it's interesting perspective. I've always loved your perspective because you came from the buyer perspective. And so In the past, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past, merch swag has always been an, oh, by the way, category. You know, we need to do this too. Whereas now it seems culturally to have taken a more front and center approach. So your book couldn't come at a better time. Do you feel that too in the energy in terms of culture and merch and swag and how it's rose to prominence in that way?

Oh, absolutely. In the book, I talk about my experiences as the marketing director in my past life. And being prospected by all these companies that would just send me catalogs over and over and, and call me like incessantly. And back then it was honestly, merch was just like cheap stuff you give out at trade show because everybody else is giving it out. Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

And, and so it, I think it's definitely evolved over time. I think the visibility through social media and other factors online have increased that. And also I think a lot of the retail brands that have entered the space have elevated it as well, sort of blurring that world, right, between promo and retail. And so I think all of that combined, I mean, just look at drinkware alone, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's sort of encapsulated every part of pop culture.

So that's a good point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Quite a bit of an evolution.

But you also sort of had your own evolution then as a distributor because you learned how to use it from the inside out. You learned how to use it to capture clients, to build a loyal fan base. And you've got this really great visual in the book, the shrimp boat captain versus the spearfisher. Spearfisher when it comes to reaching customers. Since you're talking to other distributors, how— like, this came out of your own experience. Like, it wasn't just swag is awesome, you should buy it. It was, we've done some cool things with merch and we want to share that experience. When it comes to reaching customers, how can distributors make that shift with precision and intention? And can you explain that analogy?

Yes, sure. The, the shrimp boat captain is the person that drags the bottom of the sea with a net and sees what they can pull up. There's not a lot of intention in being a shrimp boat captain. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's pretty horrific the way it happens. And so I equate that to the 10 spam emails that I received today that have no personalization at all. They're just trying to get me to click on something or reply in some way. The spearfisher, on the other hand, it, acts with intention, with personalization, understands who they're trying to connect with, and they use it as a tool to be able to build their brand and their reputation rather than just employing this army of one-size-fits-all. And so the other thing you're alluding to is, right, we've heard it a million times, drink your own Kool-Aid, eat your own dog food, you know, whatever analogy you want to use. And so for us, you know, We want to lead our customers and what better way to lead than to go, hey, look at this, look at this way I connected with you and you can do this too. Right? And so I think if we're not doing that as distributors, then we are kind of reverting back to the shrimp boat captain mentality, which also aligns with, well, here's a link, just, yeah, we can get you anything. Here's a link. Just, just look through that and tell me what you want. So I think it's a posture.

Yeah, a posture. I love that word. You said experiences should be designed to be remembered, not just delivered. And I think as distributors, we sort of get caught up in the delivery part, like just, just executing on the tactical things as opposed to executing on the inspirational things. And so that's what— that's my takeaway from your book. Having been in the business for a long time, I was like, that's super cool. Are there patterns or approaches that you've seen? Like, you've developed these merch campaigns. I've received one of your campaigns. It was memorable. Have you seen these sort of patterns in campaigns that you're building either in your own self-promo with clients or campaigns you're building for clients that sort of break through the noise?

I think that the big pattern is what's the emotion that I want someone to have when they receive this. And so in the book, I break down a few of those things, which is having one message, right? Like think about how many times we've talked to clients who are Wouldn't include everything, you know? And so focusing on like, what is the message you're trying to make and what's the call to action, I think is important. I think the emotion as well, right? You don't want to be whatever, if you're mailing something or if you're handing someone something, or if there's something, there's an event, you don't want it to feel like a me too moment. Like what I mean by that is like, oh, okay, I got one too. It was just a thing. There's nothing memorable about it. Oh, they were checking the box. And so I look at it like putting your dollars to use and creating opportunities with those dollars rather than checking the box. That's just very forgettable.

Yeah. Yeah. I love the— some of the campaigns like we've both received these campaigns that people send to us that are highly memorable. The thing I love about what you said was the simplicity, like, because we do try as salespeople, we do this right. We try to share everything. And that story and that message, the more it can get simplified, the better.

For sure. And I, I've said this before, you know, Kometsky and Blazoo both share a robot in their logo, and I don't know if that's a common thread, but you all get it, seem to get it with your merch kits, with the way you position your brand, with the way you communicate, with the intentionality. So yeah, I'm speaking to the choir.

That was some really good connection between Commonsku and you guys. And how does Commonsku help your team stay— I love the phrase outrageously remarkable. So are there examples of how Commonsku has helped contribute to this sort of standout experience with your brand?

I think the first thing that we found in Commonsku, honestly, we started using it was, well, A, the, the, the just the user experience of it for the team, but also presentation-wise on the backend to customers. So Presentation is super important to me. And so that was one thing that really stood out. And I think that has helped us stand out in a, in a big way. At the same time, you all have a lot of outrageously remarkable people working at CometSkew. I mean, you're packed with personalities there. I think that honestly, that shows through onto the CRM, right? And the roadmap and everything. So it's, I think, you know, the people, the culture becomes the product, right? Yeah. So I think that's pretty cool.

That's a, thank you for that. That's awesome. As you've scaled, how has CommsCue helped you grow without losing that personal touch? I mean, you're really good at personal touch. The first time I met you, I got one of your cards in the mail. It was just so, it just came right away and I loved that little moment. But CommsCue, then you, you work hard to build this personal touch experience. Then how does something like a complex platform that does so much on the backend help you deliver the personal touch?

I mean, the first thing is just keeping us organized, right? It's a more scalable system. You know, before we used Commscue, we were using a system that I created. It was not scalable.

Right.

You know, it, it was a lot, a lot of work. And Commscue, when you take the time to input things the right way and, and complete information and documentation, it makes the next order easier and the order after that easier and the order after that easier. So that's one of the fundamental things about the platform is just making it easier to be able to replicate things down the line. We've also used it for kitting. We've used it in unique ways for kitting to be able to organize our kits and bundle the pricing. And also have used Shops effectively and been able to use that to be able to create a more seamless experience for the customer and also for our team as well.

I want to go back to the book for a second. You, it's interesting how when you write a book, on any topic, how forcing you to codify and sort of elucidate your thoughts, it does change your own perspective, even though you've been working in the business for quite a while. But how did writing and releasing this book sort of change you and your mindset? Yeah, like, did, did you grow in conviction? Did it change in any way the way you approach the business as you work through the fundamentals in the book?

100%. I'll tell you a funny thing about it is, so I'm writing the book over time. I'm trying to do it on, you know, time block here, Saturday morning there. And what ended up happening was, you know, when you're writing a book, it's kind of like making a song, right? You hear it so many times, it's like playing in your head. And I caught myself, right, throughout the week doing things and, or making decisions and then going, hey, that doesn't align with what I'm writing in the book. And so it, it's forced me to kind of think back and go, okay, no, wait, like I do have to eat my own dog food, especially if I'm printing it on paper and distributing it. Right. So I, it, it really helped me sort of understand when I'm getting out of, you know, alignment as well. And so that I, that I caught myself doing that over and over again. Right. I would tell myself like, wait, you're not, you're not doing you know, this could be more personalized. Why is this not thoughtful? Why is this more thoughtful than that? And, and it got me a little bit, you know, if I started to get out of my spearfisher ways, it kind of got me back into that. So yes, it's, that was, that was probably the biggest epiphany I had was the writing kind of helped me create mantras that I then started to create way more conviction.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Speaking of something you just sort of unlocked there about how You were talking about being more personalized. Do you feel like with AI becoming such, obviously such a transitional period we're in, I've heard this said before, but it's from us on the inside. So, so I'd love your, your mind that thinks both still like a marketer on the outside and a distributor on the inside. The personal touch is going to become more and more important. Do you think this represents an interesting new season of opportunity for us? On one hand, we're all embracing AI. Commscue's developing some amazing things with AI that we'll be rolling out soon. On the other hand, the industry and what we sell has this emotional connection, and it could be that we're seeing even greater days ahead because of it. Do you feel that way?

Yeah. You know, Bobby, the thing I think about the most is, you know, I have a pretty big vinyl collection, right? I probably have about 2,000 pieces of vinyl.

Wow.

And vinyl came in and then it just started declining and now it's back and they're selling more than ever. For a multitude of reasons, right? You can touch it, right? It exists in the real world. It feels more— it's an experience rather than going, oh, my phone's not loading. Okay, it's loading now. There's, there's a song, right? So I, I kind of equate that to a lot of other things as well. And so one of them I think is merch, because we are approaching a point in AI where I think we're not that far from questioning the authenticity of virtually everything that we encounter, whether it's news, did this person actually write this email, right? Like there's, and so to me, is there anything more real than getting something in person, right? Is there anything more real than face-to-face? So I could see that becoming more and more valuable and also a breath of fresh air from what we are on the precipice of, right?

I think so too. I think it's such a huge thing. Your platform's growing between the book, the brand, speaking, mentoring. What's sort of lighting you up right now beyond just book and promo?

Wow.

Do you have, and do you have time for anything else other than that?

No, I spoke recently at University of Central Florida, UCF, and I, that was one of my topics that I spoke about was how to get get things done in, in different parts of your life, how to be a dad that's present, that shows up and has dinner with family every day, but still does these other things. And I think what lights me up is I've realized last year I'm a maker. And so I like making. And so whether it's a book or a piece of content or working on a new product offering in my company, like I just like making. Yeah. And so to me, any opportunity where I can get a blank sheet of paper and think of an idea and bring it to life, and that to me is what lights me up. So I know I'm gonna write another book about human connection that kind of goes, goes well with the Experience in a Box Playbook. And I'm also very excited about the different things that we're doing at my company because I think in this industry, it's just this wide open canvas 'cause distributors are doing so many different things and there's so many different niches. And so I'm, I'm very excited at how maybe AI tools could combine with different products. Where is kidding going in the future? Right. And so I'm, I'm, I'm super jazzed about just creating new products and finding new ways to connect with customers. And so, yeah, all of the above. I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know if that answered your question.

That's good. No, that was great. Are you, I, I would assume then with the book written now, it's a phenomenal tool to like kick open the door with business and prospects. Like whether it's you're sending it to folks, whether you're using it to open speaking opportunities. I think we sort of minimize what kind of a lever that can pull for you on behalf of a brand, both personally and for your business. Have you already seen it sort of kick open those doors for you? And this is new, so like it's fresh.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, the book came out about 3 weeks ago, so it's been pretty fascinating. The thing about the book that interests me, it's not a social post. Like it doesn't just happen and then, oh, you know, it, it lives, it's out there. And so I think the thing that excites me is like, I don't actually know what's gonna happen, right? And sometimes that's exciting when you don't know what's gonna, what's gonna happen. But I can tell you that if customer has two people in front of them and one of them wrote the book on the topic, might have a little bit of an edge, right? And so at the same time, I think people can forget social posts and LinkedIn posts. Yeah. And so I, for me, it was cathartic to get it out. And I do think, I don't know what it's going to do, but I do know that even just the element of getting that out and being able to use that as sort of a proof of concept for what we're doing at Blazoo and also some of the thoughts that I've been talking about with, with my company for years, I think is gonna have positive benefits, but I'm not really sure. We'll find out in a year or two. I have no idea.

Well, as for those listening, not all of us are going to write a book, but we all sort of have— we all live with these conceptual ideas in our minds, right? The kids call them side projects. We always have these things in our head that we're like, I really should do this, whether it's launch a podcast, create a newsletter, write a book. And since you're a maker, what advice would you give to those thinking about it now, having said— because I remember talking with you in the early days of the book writing, and you were trying to get you were in that stage where you were, I've got to get this thing done across the finish line. You did, and it was not an easy lift. So how would you encourage others who are like looking at this big creative project they need to launch that was going to be beneficial to themselves, to their brand? How would you encourage them now on the other side of that book?

Well, I can give a couple pieces of advice, which are things that I've heard in the past. And so I'll say that, you know, back in Silicon Valley, there's a saying that if you're not embarrassed by your first iteration of your product, then you didn't launch fast enough. You waited too long. And so—

Interesting.

I would say before you write a book, right? I think maybe posting something online like a blog or a LinkedIn post regularly and being able to get a cadence. I documented my LinkedIn posts for about 8, about 8 years. I have a Google Doc. Every time I do a LinkedIn post, I copy and paste them in there. So I have like 8 years of content to draw on. So I think sometimes getting into that writing habit, which nobody's going to tell you that more than Seth Godin, right? Like write every day, write a little bit, get into that habit. I think that's one way to get at it. The second thing is, is with a creative project, there's going to be iterations. And so it's just, just launch. Don't be stuck on the launch pad, right? Indefinitely, because it's not perfect. Launch and then get better. And that's really kind of like anything else we do, right? In life.

We have a mutual influence. I say we, the collective we at Common Skew, Mark, others with between, and you and Seth too. You, he has been a big influence in your life. He, he wrote a blurb for your book. That's pretty special. How has he, I would call you a mentee of Seth's and how would you say that he has impacted your work?

The funny thing is, is you could probably trace that book back to a 2016 workshop I went to with Seth because he encouraged me to focus on, not on the product, but the solution, which seems very basic. But when Seth tells you, you go, wait, I need to think about this a little bit further. Right? And so my Alt-MBA project was some of the kidding stuff that I'm doing now. And so he's been a big influence. Because he talks through a lot of the elements that are kind of universal within marketing. And we can sometimes dismiss things saying, well, those are just words. The promo's different, but there's common threads in all marketing. And so he's been just a great advocate. And yes, getting the blurb, I was, I, I joked with someone. I said, no, nowhere to go but down from here. I got my, it's like having, you know, Michael Jordan sign your first book. Like, what am I going to do next? But, but yeah, and there's a section in the book about that workshop with Seth Godin towards the back. It's called the Ruckus Makers Workshop. And so, yeah, I've, I would probably say that Seth was probably a big influence in this book, in just even writing this book. It started with him in many ways. Yeah.

You heading into the year, we are sitting in the middle of a year that there's always a level of uncertainty, but there's probably a higher degree of uncertainty now. Than there has been in quite a while in the economy and just in business in general. I hear so many fluctuating reports from distributors and suppliers about how business is doing. As you— as we close here, as you head into the rest of the year, how would you encourage other distributors like you who are running progressive businesses, your high-touch, amazing brand? You've built this really cool experience, this great company with great people. As you head into the next 6 months to 9 months of the year, how are you What's your mindset like and how can you encourage others to embrace sort of a mindset that is able to handle that uncertainty?

For me personally, whenever there's an environment that's uncertain, I just kind of go back to basics, right? And just focusing back on the basics. And I think that's, that's really important, right? Like, how do we engage? Looking at our processes, seeing if there's anything that we can do to improve, looking at your client list and seeing if there's ways that you can reengage with people. So I just think it's, I mean, you should always be going back to basics, right? Like Tiger Woods had a swing coach. Right. And I think when we stray from that, we focus on a little bit too much hot sauce. I think that's, I, for me personally, that's when I kind of stray a little too far out because you can control that certainty. Right. With all the external stuff you can't control. I go, okay, what can we control? Right now we're at halftime. Begin with the end in mind, especially that now, you know, before we know it, holiday, holiday will be here.

So true. So true, Dean. That's such great advice. And the reason why I say that is because I think when uncertainty hits us, we grasp and we panic. So we grasp for alternative solutions and then just zeroing in on our client, what we do well and all that can center us, can bring us back to, like you said, the basics that can help us plow through. Thank you for doing this, my friend. Congratulations on an amazing book launch experience, brand. We follow you with admiration. So thanks for joining us.

Appreciate you, Bobby. Thanks for having me.

All right, buddy. Take care.