Episode 367: A Masterclass in Making the PPAI Top 100

Hey friends, it's Bobby. Today's episode is a little different, but I think you're going to find it very helpful. Last week we hosted a webinar that turned into one of the best conversations we've had all year, so we wanted to bring you a few of the highlights from it here on the SkewCast. Now, here's the gist. PPAI just released a ranking of the top 100 distributors in promo. It's a data-driven measurement scored across 8 categories. This year, 23% of the PPAI 100 runs on CommsCube. So we brought together 3 of those distributors for an honest conversation about their growth, their challenges, and what advice they would have for you. It's part celebration and part masterclass. Our 3 guests are Sandy Gonzalez, the CEO of Made to Order, who has built Made to Order into one of the largest women-owned and employee-owned distributors in promo. Michael Wolliver, the founder of Magellan Promotions. He's built the go-to branded merch experience for higher education, serving more than 500 colleges and growing the company— get this— 71% in 3 years on a 4-day workweek. And finally, Robert Fiveash, friend, mentor to many, and president and co-founder of B Corp certified company Brand Fuel. He's the past president of Promo Kitchen and a driving force in Reciprocity Road. Today's episode is brought to you courtesy of us at Cometscue. Over 900 distributors powering $1.8 billion in network volume rely on Commscue's connected workflow. Process more orders, connect your team, and dramatically grow your sales. To learn how, visit communsq.com. Oh, and this episode is just a highlight reel. But if you want to check the entire 1-hour episode from this recording, see our link in the show notes. Now on to our guests, hosted by Commscue co-founder and president Mark Graham. Now, this first highlight gets right at the heart of it. The specific changes that unlocked growth for each of these 3 distributors. Mark starts with Michael, then Sandy, then Robert, and closes with a lightning round on what each of them would tell themselves 5 years ago.

Let's get started with it, and we're going to talk about the changes that unlocked the growth. So Michael, we're going to start with you because you're first in my panel. So Michael, it's spring of 2004. You join a 1-person merch company. Open a territory with literally no clients, having never sold anything. After this, you doubled down on promo and found Magellan. As you look back, do you see certain seasons that were significant unlocks to growing to the next level? Can you define what some of those big investments or changes were?

Yeah, absolutely. It's certainly been a journey. It was, uh, 2005, so 21 years. Ago, and I'd never been in marketing, never been in sales, as you said. And so one of the things that really, really good advice I got early on was specialize in something. And I didn't know what specialize, what that actually would do for us or like where we would go. And so when I first started working, I just tried to get anyone to be clients and tried a couple of different areas. And then I reached out to UW-Milwaukee. University of Wisconsin in Milwaukee, and I got my MBA from there. So I said, hey, can I reach out and start talking to departments on campus? And they said, sure. So we started working with some departments on campus and started having more success. And then we went to another campus and said, can we do this here? And we found success there and we started just building it from there. So that specialization piece really was a big unlock. And when we started going from 5 to 7 to 10 to 20 universities, Then we started changing our marketing around and started thinking that through. A few years ago, we went through a program that David C. Baker puts on called The Business of Expertise, and he does something called the Total Business Reset. I— David specializes working with marketing agencies and helping them figure out how to continue to build their business. And we worked through his program and it really helped us think through how we got to where we are and how we're going to get to that next level. Another key piece that has been really, really impactful for us is early on I joined a CEO roundtable of other— we're in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area, and I joined it through my local Chamber of Commerce, and I've been with the same group for 18 years. I have learned so much from this group. We had early issues of how to keep, how to recruit, how to onboard and retain team. And this group helped me tremendously. And now our retention is so much better than it ever has been. And it's really impactful from this group of helping me see through opportunities and learn from others. And that's just been so, so impactful for us.

That's great. Well, congratulations. And I certainly want to dig into some of those topics a little deeper as we move on. Sandy, moving over to you, you've grown made-to-order in a few different ways. Organically and also by acquisition. For the owner that's watching this today and they're weighing those two paths, what would you tell them about the positive impact of each path on your business?

Well, first of all, I have to say that both take a lot of time and energy. One isn't better over the other. I think one's a little bit faster, but it impacts the entire team. The most important thing to think about is the culture fit because in the first case, doing the acquisition, we weren't looking to acquire anybody. It just sort of fell into our laps and it felt like the right fit, like you're talking to somebody and you feel like you have the same DNA. And so we worked through that. And I'm really happy to say that I do feel that we have that with the team that came on board. And it's the same thing when we are organically growing or hiring somebody. We aren't necessarily looking for the big numbers. We're okay adding somebody onto the team that doesn't necessarily have a huge book of business, but if they look like they're gonna fit in with the team, they're gonna have the same culture fit, what we bring to the table is gonna get them to that million-dollar club. So we really focus on that. I think there's good to both of them. Right now, I think we're focused on organic growth more than anything else.

Right, right. And, and I think it's such a great point about culture that if you're bringing in an organization, acquiring an organization where there's a culture mismatch, they may have great growth, they may have great margins, they may have great clients, but ultimately culture, if there's a mismatch, it can really set you back.

Correct.

And so I think that's a really, really good point.

And yeah, not worth it.

Yeah. And congrats for having successful acquisitions where that culture was great. Certainly know, know the folks that, that, that did join MTO a while ago and just such an extraordinary group of people from a culture perspective.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Well, congratulations for that.

Thank you.

So, Mr. Fiveash, Brand Fuel needs to say has reinvented itself more than once since you and Danny started in 1998. Which reinvention— I know there's many of them, but maybe you pick one or two— was the hardest and which are you the most proud of?

A really good question. And you're right, Mark, 30 years later almost, and we've certainly changed a lot over the years. The one I'm— I think that I'm most proud of, the transformation I'm most proud of, this is a hard one because we're still sort of changing and we're still kind of striving to be that optimal brand fuel. So we're not quite there yet. But I think the hardest was probably our B Corp certification. And that's probably not a surprise. It was a 10-year process. We failed miserably at it the first time. It took slow and incremental progress to get there. And I just want to give some quick props to Danny and Allison on our team who really did an amazing job of like gathering the data and helping us focus on the things that improved our score. These were things like documenting and updating policies, improving benefits, being more transparent internally inside our company, and tracking resource usage, which is something that's really, really important. So that's probably the one we're most proud of because it took so long and it helps define to our customers kind of who we are and why we're different. And in a, in an industry where there are 30,000 competitors, that's really essential. So that's probably the, the one we're most proud of. Probably the hardest one, the hardest transformation. And honestly, we're still sort of that butterfly that can't really decide if we want to go back into the, the nice warm cocoon, but really becoming what we, what we're calling a challenger agency. And so it's really, really easy to take an order and it's much harder to tell a client like that they can actually do better. And as a salesperson, I think we're wired to get to the yes and lock in that sale. But we found that when we push back and certainly with professionalism and acting as the expert, Clients and prospects really do appreciate that. And so if you're a little bit skeptical of that, like telling a client no, I think the easiest way to start down that path is really simple. Like in your common SKU presentations, make a recommendation rather than just spouting out 20 items from the catalog. Take a stand, tell the client what you recommend and start that conversation. I think if you do that, you'll be one step closer to being that challenger agency if that's a particular goal of yours. I also think your clients are gonna appreciate working with somebody that's informed like that and engaged like that and willing to take a stand. Yeah.

People that have an opinion about the industry that you serve and the client to serve as opposed to just an order taker. And, uh, I think that that's, it's so easy in theory, but I think so hard, right? You're staring down a 50,000-unit stress toy order. I just use that as an example because I know that Danny, your partner, has famously rejected those orders and pivoted to something else. But that takes a lot of work and it's also a risk that the client's gonna go elsewhere. So, um, good for you. Um, okay, lightning round. Each of you, I'm going to ask, and I just want a short, quick, one-statement response. Think of where you were 5 years ago. What would you tell the version of you from 5 years ago that would have really helped you today? Sandy, why don't we start with you?

Trust your gut. I say that because I feel like some of the decisions I delayed, I usually made them anyway, but it was later after a pivot that maybe I didn't need. So now I say Go with your gut. Just do it.

Love it. Michael.

Mine is so similar. Relax. In 5 years, you're going to be on a Time Skew webinar talking about you being the PPAI 100. Like, I would say, you're kidding me. There's no way, right? We're the small company that is trying to figure everything out. So relax, go with the gut. Yes, I love it.

I love it. And congrats again. Robert, how about you?

Those are really good ones. Um, for me, uh, it's really simple: stay focused and be consistent. There's really nothing else that creates quicker, like, meaningful results, and those two are very hard for me.

Now that's the growth highlight. For the next one, Mark digs into the Commenscue side— how these three run their businesses on Commenscue and the difference it makes with their teams. Here's that clip.

All right, we are flying through this, so we're now going to move to the next section. We're going to talk about leveraging common SKU in your experience with the platform. Robert, we'll start with you. I'm fitting to start with you because Robert Fiveash and Danny Rosen at Brand Fuel were our first customer 15 years ago in 2011. We were just figuring things out and, uh, Danny and Robert took a chance on us. And with that in mind, back in 2011, what were you trying to solve in the business at that time?

Yeah, I mean, it Gosh, things were such a mess. I think at that time, Mark, in 2011, we probably had, I don't know, just under 10 salespeople and about that same number of coordinators. Excuse me. Everybody did things differently. Like nobody had, there was no consistent process, no method to the madness. And because of that, we really couldn't train people properly. We could grow the team, we could add folks, but we couldn't create scale on the operations side.

And that was.

Really hampering our growth. And so we're looking for something to help us there. Commonsku obviously gave us a process that each person could follow kind of depending on our roles in sort of a rinse and repeat fashion. And we've been following that path ever since. Today we still, we do offer a little bit of flexibility in terms of workflow among the team members. You know, everybody's a little bit different and has, is connected to a sort of a different situation, but the process is essentially locked in. And so Anyone new is trained on that workflow and CommonsQ. I honestly, I think without CommonsQ that never would've happened. I truly believe that. So it's really been instrumental in giving us a proper pathway for training and growth on the operation side.

Well, and thanks for that perspective. And I'll tell you, there's been lots of laughs along the way and it's, it's bringing out lots in us, just the history and everything that we've learned from you and your team. And certainly we've learned a little bit from Danny too, but mostly from you, Robert. Sandy, so one of the things that I know is really important in your culture is, is a strong sales culture. And of course, Commenscue has been built for effective sales teams. How does it help your team sell and serve clients together?

Well, I'm probably one of your biggest fans, having been in sales my entire life. I have to say that when we were evaluating systems, I spoke to one of your clients. And they said something to me that really, really stuck with me because we had come from a system that included the general ledger and everything. And we were trying to find something to replace exactly that. But I spoke to one of your clients and they said, we're not an accounting firm. And it just, I, it really, really stuck with me. And it just made such a huge impact because where we were coming from As salespeople, we had one tool for research. We had another one for, you know, and I just remember all those evenings of sitting there and rekeying in. First you did the presentation in one system and then the client told you what they wanted and then you had to come in. So the fact that you start a project and you finish it all the way through the invoice and it's all in one place and I'm just a huge fan and I just, When I see people not working in the system or when we interview somebody and we tell them that we are using this system and I try to explain how amazing it can be to work in something that as a salesperson truly supports the way that you work with clients, it's hard to make them understand that. But I think it really does give our sales teams a big advantage And we can get things to our clients so much faster than what we used to be able to. It's just night and day. I'm a huge fan. I don't know what else to say.

Well, you're very kind and, and it's certainly been a real, real pleasure and certainly lots of laughs with your, with your team. Hyper creative, by the way. So I just love it.

Obviously our finance team has had some, you know, has had a learning curve and had to learn to do things differently outside the system. But as far as sales and client-facing, it's amazing for sure. Yeah.

So Michael, one of the things that's really unique about your business is that you have implemented a 4-day workweek and you've done this for several years now. And so you've got 4 days that folks are working at your company. You've grown 71%. I'm curious at how Commonsku contributes to making that all work for you so that the business is growing and successful.

Absolutely. A lot of it was like what Sandy had mentioned about how you can take all the information, have it in one central spot. And when we, like Robert talked about, a consistency across the team so that someone can jump in on a project, need be. So like when we have someone who's on call every Friday to ensure if something goes, needs to be attended to, Anyone in our team can jump in, see what's going on in the project and get it to the next level to keep the client happy. So the ability for us to have that centralized system, without that, we would not be able to do what we're doing. And that's just the efficiencies that we get through it. The efficiencies that, you know, we know that are coming with Kanban Skew will make that even better and more exciting for us. So we're super excited about all the ways that the system has and will continue to do for our business.

Thanks for joining us today. That's just a taste of the entire 1-hour convo. Mark and the panel get into even more topics such as breaking through the sales ceiling, their thoughts on merch as a medium, and their perspective on AI. To hear the full episode, check out the link in our show notes. I'm Bobby Lehew. Our executive producer is Ritz, and we'll see you next time.