68 - EP 68 with Pat Moise: The Operating System of the Cosmos, Ancient Knowledge and Your Spiritual Transformation

Right on, cool, good to go.

All right, we're here.

Thank you so much, brother.

Glad to be here.

You were telling me about the play on the skies in reference to the astrological kind of play where the gods and goddesses are characters in this whole thing, and we can observe that as humans. What, what does that mean for us to understand that?

So the further back you go, the clearer the picture becomes of the way in which the heavens were observed and the way in which that observation related to the daily lives of people. We're pretty cut off from that now in our culture. So if we go far enough back, we find myths and stories of various gods. And when we were speaking earlier, we were talking about the idea of a heliacal procession. So that's going to illustrate this concept really well for us. So heliacal procession is the idea that while to our eyes it appears as though the planets are moving around us, in fact they're all moving around the sun. And so as they— as a planet goes around the sun, there's 4 phases can be in. It can be invisible to us because it's in the part of the rotation which is behind the sun from our viewpoint, and then it can become visible to us as it comes around the sun and appear on the— so let's say the right side of the sun. And then as it circles forwards, it's going to become invisible again because it'll be in front of the sun, and then on the left side it becomes visible again as it continues the process. So in the ancient world, in the Babylonian tradition, it was understood that in each one of these phases there was a different god or goddess, a different deity, a different entity that was demonstrably present in the sky. And so if you take each planet at any given moment and you understand that each planet is representing a particular god or goddess with this, this idea of a heliacal procession, you have essentially a cast of characters in a play. And if you understand the myths well and you understand the more mystical ideas that are present in the mundane stories about sheepskins and bow and arrows and things like this, you take those characters and you look for which myths have been told where those characters are present together.

Yeah.

And this unlocks, uh, significance in terms of what we're witnessing in the heavens. And so understanding that is kind of having a weather forecast of a subtle energy, and it's just about alignment. It's not about, you know, controlling everything and saying, oh well, this is the energy, so now I'm going to do— it's just understanding that Sometimes you push and sometimes you pull. Sometimes you rest and sometimes you go and you seek out.

Yep.

And so sometimes you want to strike up a romantic engagement, sometimes you want to be really careful that you don't have miscommunication in such a, such a field as this. And so the issue with the ancients and to this day is the question: is astrology an art and science of correlation, or is it one of causation? And so the meaning there is like, are the planets causing things to happen to us in a linear progression of events, of vector forces that are dominoing down the chain of being? Or is the entire cosmos built on one operating system principle, and therefore there is a correspondence of what is happening above and below? So the wisdom of Hermes tells us that as above, so below, not as above, then below. And so this means that we are inside a system of correspondence, which means by observing the heavens, we can understand It's as if we observe ourselves. By observing a cell, you observe the body.

Yeah.

And this is true, for example, in the medical field. You can take a drop of blood and you can zoom into it, and you can have understanding of the entire body from that one drop of blood, right? And so you can go up and do the same thing as you can if you go down, because the whole system is built like a holo-fractographic scaled representation of one and only one principle. And so this is why the ancients also would say all is one.

One.

This is where that comes from. Yeah, New Age communities will beat that over the head and bury, bury that dead horse many times over, but, uh, there's something to it, and there's a reason why that, that wisdom lasted through the ages.

Yeah, I think a lot of people will judge astrology and they just don't have an understanding of it. Um, just like people will say, you know, some biological scientific stuff is nonsense because they just don't have the physical understanding. Obviously my knowledge pales in comparison to yours, but what I have understood from people that have talked to me about it, having my own chart read and things like that, is there is an undeniable level of truth to what I was seeing happening in my life and whatever in this particular— this reading that I had done where he was looking at it and he was like, yeah, okay, so maybe you were experiencing this kind of situation based on these planets moving. And it was like There's zero possible chance that you could have— that he could have known what was going on in my life to that level of specificity, to like the relationship I was having or my business at the time. And, you know, like you said, with, uh, you know, all the Sol Brah stuff, it kind of expanded at the same time. Now I have to look for other periods where it might be more of a learning phase than a business expansion phase. And I— what it has done, and it's not like 'Oh, because of this planet movement, I'm going to be this asshole for a couple months and that's unavoidable.' It's, it's not that kind of thing. It's more of a roadmap, at least that's how I've chosen to interpret it. And within that, you're kind of flowing with the energies rather than because you subscribe to some kind of thing like, 'I need to grind every single day,' or whatever it is. It's also playing out with the seasons of life. Like winter, you want to chill more, and your energy is going to be lower than it is in summer. And is that planetary as well? Probably on some level. But people, you know, it's more temperature-based in, in the scientific world. But astrology is a tool like anything. Once you understand it and have the knowledge, that will serve you well. And that's, you know, that's how people should— and I used to be, astrology is BS. I just— because that's how it's presented. And I think it's It's intentionally done that, you know, to get the masses to obfuscate it and to, to psych you out of like, oh, it's all nonsense, I'm not going to pay attention. Meanwhile, the elites are birthing their children— or elites, the people that are in the know are birthing their children and timing that so that they're going to be having the greatest power and everything.

So everything they do is timed with these kinds of things.

I have a friend who's very, very agnostic Wow, I don't know what that is. Boat?

Yeah, yeah, ship. Um, so I have a friend who's about as passionately agnostic as you can get, right? And we've— he's seen my library, he's been in my library like a little bit.

Yeah, right.

He's, uh, he's been in my library many times and looked at the book. I, you know, I have a large astrology section. I've got all kinds of different things that aren't his cup of tea, but he's often said this one comment to me, which is, Pat, through the ages, all the philosophers, all the great men of history, all the advisors to the kings, all the kingmakers He said, it's enough for me to know that all of the most intelligent and productive human beings in the history of mankind, for any records that we hold, have all pursued this one science and art above all others, and they all held it above others. So he's like, I may not know, but like, that's good enough for me.

Yeah.

And I think that's a sound place to start. If a bunch of great people have done one thing and you don't know why, better to try it out and find out than to just, you know, blindly kind of say. But also, you're up against this massive, you know, tabloid, "Oh, Leo means this." So for example, first of all, a distinction between the modern system and the ancient system.

Yep.

The modern system, by the time it came to the Greeks, astrology had become a mathematical discipline that was based on charts. So you would have these charts and it would tell you at every moment, every position, every angle, everything. This is all done through formulas. But the maxim of the Babylonians was to always observe with your eyes. So they don't just consider the stars in the sky, they look at the clouds, they look at a leaf that might float by, and the leaf might flow by the nose of the, of the lion of Leo, and that's going to mean something to them because it's all happening on a canvas above. It's like a one— it's many dimensions, but in a sense it's two-dimensional. Everything that happens up there, they're correlating to each other as like a line that's coming down. And so this type of process of through observation you understand the position of things. If it's cloudy and you can't see anything, that means something for that night, what's happening there. This was lost by the time it came to the Greeks. The Greeks were relying on math and charts. And this has been continued all the way through. So if you cast your chart in any modern tradition or system, what you find out if you're— they say, "Oh, my Saturn is 22 degrees, you know, Leo," or whatever. In a case like that, If you were to actually be standing at the place of your birth and to look up at the sky, Saturn would not be 22 degrees Leo. It would not be, right? It would be about 26.5 degrees, like earlier in the cycle of, of the zodiac wheel. And so this is a difference that makes a— he has huge ramifications when it comes to people saying, well, I had my chart done and he knew some stuff, but he was off on a bunch of stuff. These kinds of examples, right? That's because it's an inaccurate process that's being used today in terms of what's actually happening in the sky.

Yeah.

And another piece is that in the modern world, we talk about the planets with prominence, but there's an entire ocean of fixed stars which were known to the ancients to have certain characteristics and properties, and their positions meant something. If they were in alignment with something, it meant something very powerful. And so when you shift, someone might be Sagittarius, and then in the Babylonian system, they'll be something else. And they don't like that. They say, "Well, I have all these Sagittarius traits." Yes, but when you shift to the Babylonian system and you take into account the position of the fixed stars, all of the traits they had demonstrably present in their lives from the Sagittarius position become explained by the fixed stars.

Right.

So they gain another layer of dimension of understanding. And astrology, like all mystical arts and sciences, is not something that we try to convince someone of. It's for the wise and those who wish to become wise. And so if someone can't see it, you wish them well, on your way you go. And you make room at the table for those who can, who can hear what you have to say.

Yeah, no, that's beautiful. Um, you said an ocean of fixed stars. Was that intentional or figurative?

Ah, yes, very good, very good. Yeah, uh, I think perhaps a little Freudian, but there's something there too. Um, yeah, a lot of traditions talk about, you know, the oceans. There's an interesting correlation between the sky gods and the, and the water gods, the ocean gods. And so you have this division amongst ancient cultures where some place sky gods as prominent and some place ocean gods as prominent. This divide collapses when you understand that the sky was to them an ocean also. And so this primordial aspect, you have the water, the physical waters are one thing, but the cosmic waters, the cosmic ocean is like the— it's the intangible, it's the quantum field, or, you know, modern people would say quantum field. I have other ways I could say it, but that is an ocean and it has fluid dynamic properties just like water.

Yeah.

And so the stars are these coagulation points, if you will. Um, the Jewish tradition has some great, uh, conversations in mystical circles had about the nature of the sky, the firmament, the dome, and the waters that are separated and all this. And I have a study with some very prominent, uh, Jewish mystics who have worked with me for a couple of years now. And so one thing he said to me, one of the guys in one case said, "Pat, imagine you have a flat water and you have to separate those waters. You yourself with your finger has to separate the waters. How do you do it?" And I said, "Well, can you like move the table? Can you jostle?" "No, no, Pat, just sitting where you are, have to separate the waters. How do you do it?" And I sat with this, took me like 3 weeks to come up with an answer. And then it occurred to me, if I insert my finger into the water and I spin fast enough and I make a vortex, I will create a negative space where there's no water by making that vortex, and I will have separated the waters.

Yeah.

And that separation is also a fluid dynamic process that is happening, which has a, a vector point, a focal point at the origin of the tornado that I created, and then it has this mouth that feeds out from that point, and it's creating a feedback loop of the energy of the water. And so this is actually, in fact, the nature of what a chakra is. This is how a chakra is structured. It's a vortex. It's not a circle. It's not a dot. It's a vortex like a tornado that emanates from a point in the spine where the nervous system runs. And so the more you study these various disciplines and the more you are open to the possibility that things which once seemed crazy might actually have some logic to them, suddenly you start to see patterns which illuminate through different fields, through different domains. And by focusing on those patterns and what you can gain from that, you begin to build a scaffold, a ladder, which you can climb to rungs that most people can't even see.

Is that a Jacob's ladder?

So the Jacob's ladder is an idea. So the Tree of Life, people are— well, maybe your audience may or may not be familiar, but the Tree of Life is a glyph. Glyph is probably the best term for it. It's called many things, but glyph is probably most appropriate. And it depicts the operating system of the existential cosmos. Basically. It's a, it's a map, a diagram, and there's 10 circles on it with 22 lines. This is one way it's displayed, and that on its own is a very powerful tool. But to understand the Jewish cosmology, they attribute the process of creation as happening across 4 separate worlds. And so, in fact, actually 5, but that's a more technical matter, so we'll say 4. And so this tree, if you were to take a copy of this tree 4 times and arrange it in a certain way so that it, it produced a very long tree, and you can overlap each tree with the others in various ways, you would end up with what's called the Jacob Ladder, which is the full Tree of Life in all four worlds. And if we look at something like the tarot deck, the tarot cards, or in astrology, the elements, you have four suits, you have four elements, and you have four worlds. And each world is a certain dynamic unfolding of the mysterious Unknowable Godhead. And so, the blueprint is held in one world in its totality, and the very last thing that is done in that world cascades as the first cause of the next world. And so, this iteration happens 4 times, and the whole process is considered— they call it the path of the lightning bolt, is the path that you follow when you unfold the tree in your mind's eye and you watch each thing happen. They say it happens like a lightning bolt because only in the very last step is the whole thing concretized, is the whole thing made real. Yeah. Other than that, it's a mysterious thing in the mind of God.

Yeah.

And so that's— that's the Jacob's Ladder, is this idea that you can understand the tree in a more multi-dimensional way.

So in a sense that it happens like a lightning bolt, is that because you're kind of breaking down these symbols and studying these concepts and it doesn't really make sense until it really does? It right at the end? And is that a response to the concentrated mind effort that you've put forward over years?

That's beautiful. That is actually what you just said, I would say, is the, the above-below principle happening, where if we take it at the above level where we're talking literal cosmos, not individuated interpersonal psychological understanding, they describe it as the path of the lightning bolt, because a lightning bolt, while we know it's a long thing, we can see it in the sky, it happens so quickly it may as well all happen at once. Yeah, so it's this attribute that's being done. And there's also a more modern idea, which maybe they knew back in the day, that the lightning bolt originates from below. It— something reaches up from the ground to originate the process, and so it calls it down in a sort of a way. So these two principles are very valuable. But then what you just said is to take that concept and overlay it onto an individual, where exactly what you said is true. You are striving, you're striving, you're striving, and then suddenly it illuminates, like, literally like a lightning bolt. And that is, that is what happens. You have to be willing with these kinds of things, mystical arts and mystical sciences and things of this nature. You have to be willing to pursue something that makes no sense with consistent effort for— and feeling like you have no idea what you're doing. And you're reading the books, you're going, none of these words make any sense, what am I reading, this is crazy. And people get discouraged and so they stop. And this is the firewall to the occult sciences.

Yes.

It keeps the unworthy out, so to speak, automatically. But if you pursue and you persist, what is happening actually is that the parts of your mind which most people aren't in touch with or aware of are being reorganized according to the blueprints, according to the formulae, the patterns that are present in what's being consumed as information. And it's this dynamic kind of back and forth process, this reorganization of these aspects of the mind that is what is facilitating the lightning bolt moment.

Yeah.

And so it is years and years and sometimes many years. And I have, I have books that I have spent in the past, let's say I spent 10 years looking at a book and really not understanding maybe more than 5% of what's there, but knowing that it was valid. And I knew there was all, it was all there, but I didn't know what I was reading. Yeah. And then one day I'm looking at like a napkin flutter off a table.

Yeah.

And suddenly it's, it strikes me, this, this all-important idea. And I go back to the book and that's the idea they were describing. And now I can see with their language what I noticed in a napkin first.

Yeah.

And so that's the way it unfolds. And when you unfold it like that, you are out of that control. We talked before about control. You are out of that control seat where you're trying to make it happen and you're inviting God through his creation to give to you that which is best for you, for where you're going, for what you need to do, for what you've set out as your goals. And even that idea of setting your goals, is something that's refined. Yeah, they're given to you. And so you have a goal, but then you become something to achieve that goal. In the becoming, you realize, I could make a better goal.

You make a better goal.

Now you're going for that one. So all of a sudden that becomes frustrating because you're like, what am I even achieving here? I keep spinning wheels in all these directions. But if you persist with that long enough, you transcend this process of setting goals and achieving goals. And now you become— now you're just like living in a very different way. And that's when things just come to you. You know, the master does nothing yet accomplishes everything. That's, that's that consciousness.

Yeah, I love what you said. I've spoken about this before, but, um, surrendering to everything, because our role as a human that does not have the capacity to control anything really in this world, and the success that you think that you have brought upon yourself— yes, there is the aspect of the concentrated effort and the focus and the discipline that goes on for years, but the stuff that you do achieve, there are so many other factors with other people coming in your life at the right time, coincidences and chance happenings, people responding to the work that you put out. None of that is in your control. And so this idea that, you know, this one person has done everything, you know, let's take Alexander the Great for example. He sets in motion the battles, the conquests, but is he really in control of how those battles and conquests would play out? I wouldn't think so. Like, yes, his superior tactic mind and everything, he was the greatest to ever do it in that sense, but all of that I think is just a function of the role that God has chosen for him at that time. And so removing the need to control opens yourself up to— opens your life up to the magic of God and everything else. And can you speak a little bit about how the aspect of rituals and all of those things which, which people do are in the know to try to control the outcomes of things, and how that can lead to this, this idea of the left-hand and right-hand path, and just kind of talk about that dichotomy.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, ritual is based on a principle of correspondence, that what we do with an object on a table has a relationship to other objects that are not on that table. And the link between what we manipulate with our hands—

or I'm holding the mic.

Yeah, the link between what we manipulate with our hands and our mind and what happens elsewhere in the cosmos or our local sphere of life is a chain that is built through the will and the imagination. And so if a planet is doing something and I take a rock and I take that rock to symbolize that planet, and I do something with that rock in alignment with that planet, I've created a correspondence, or I utilized a correspondence to facilitate a ritual act. And ritual is essentially— I mean, to my perspective, everything is ritual. Because if you live with intent, intention, then everything you do has meaning beyond the mundane action that you take. You can go to the bathroom. You could go take a leak in the woods or whatever. That can be a ritual act. You could hold the door for someone. That can be a ritual act. At whatever you choose to do, you can choose to do with the kind of focus that it's a ritual act. Now the question is, are those ritual acts being done to gain something materially in the external world, or to alter something materially, some material condition in the external world, or even spiritually externally? Or is the ritual act being done to continue a refinement process of your own inner world? That's the distinction right there, right? So if you want money and you buy some book and it says, "Oh, do this and dance under the full moon and burn this in a bucket and then slap a stranger in the face," and like, whatever it says, and you go and you do it, and then you win a lottery ticket, like, well, what did you really gain? I mean, materially, sure, yeah, but the idea is that the soul is gonna cast this off and everything that's here is gone. But not everything that we achieve is gone. Some things we'll take with us. Some things that we accumulate in this lifetime we actually take with us to the next. Those are the fruits of ritual to my mind. Now, left-hand/right-hand path conversation. So if someone in the audience is not— or listening to this is not at all familiar with this concept, the idea is that there's a distinction that's made between practitioners of magical arts or occult philosophy and mystical sciences depending on the way they orient themselves in relationship to the all, to the cosmos. And when you orient yourself as the pinnacle expression of the cosmos, and you declare that all forces and all principalities and all principles and all patterns present in the cosmos exist to serve your sovereign will as an individual expression of that, that is decidedly a left-hand perspective. And when you— now it gets a little more nuanced than this, but this is a very easy distinction to make. Now, when you say that you exist to serve the will of the cosmos in its totality, and that's the surrender principle, that is decidedly a right-hand path. Now, a useful distinction that we can put next to this right and left-hand thing is the distinction between an occultist and a mystic also. And occultists aren't always one path, and mystics aren't always one path, but yet a useful distinction emerges. A mystic is one who lives in a transcendent state beyond any appearance of anything.

Mm-hmm.

It's— none of it's real. It's all imaginary. We're not talking nihilism here, but we're saying there's a transcendent state of consciousness where you know none of this is real. That is a mystic. An occultist is one who recognizes that being true, but looking into the, the coding of the simulation, if you will, starts to recognize patterns and observe correspondences between like and like thing and uses that to alter and change the surroundings according to their will.

Yeah.

And so typically occultists can fall into the left-hand path because they're dealing with those types of processes. And typically mystics you could consider along the right-hand path where it's just some guy who lives in a cave and he said a few words and someone wrote them down and now thousands of people's lives or millions of people's lives are lived towards love and towards, uh, you know, what we would consider virtues. Yeah, because of those words, the fruits of the tree says much. But there is also a path called the middle path. Middle path is a little more complicated to understand because it's as if being an occultist and a mystic at the same time, a left hand and right hand at the same time. This is a very nuanced and dynamic thing. Most people, if you, if you go to an occultism convention, a left-hand path, Sitra Ahura convention, some nonsense like this, And you go and you talk to people and they say, "Oh, I'm a middle path practitioner." They don't know what the hell they're talking about. You know what I mean? That's nonsense for the most part. Real middle path people who follow the approach of a middle path, you have no idea. They could be a janitor. They could be a— you have no idea. It's all inside. And everything they're doing, they have made the cosmos their altar. And they have made everything they touch, breathe, see, think about, whatever, the objects of their ritual. And they are doing that to create, to build closeness to God so that they can be more effective in the world for whatever end they so choose or so chosen for them.

Yeah.

So is that—

you feel like that speaks to those? And is there generally, high-level speaking, the left hand could be said to be evil in the sense that it goes against the will of God, or because it's materialistic physical gain rather than serving the all, and then right hand is typically, you know, the best love-directed kind of actions.

Yeah, like Jesus versus like, you know, whatever, some like Luciferian pedophile baby-eating type thing.

Yeah.

So, uh, yeah, you could make that distinction at a high level, uh, for sure. Um, but really it comes down to the orientation. So if I orient myself so that I am the pinnacle of all existence and everything exists merely to serve my will and my whim whatever I so choose, and I view every human emotion like compassion or guilt or shame or fear as just pure weakness. If that's my perspective, then I'm a lot more likely to do things that hurt other people, whether intentionally or just as a side effect of the way I live my life. And, and then in fact, it invites the kind of sociopathic mind which is, you know, prone for intellectual pursuits, prone for high-level interpersonal manipulations is a very compatible package for someone like that. And it offers them, uh, also a sense of feeling special. You know, if you commune with entities, if you engage in spiritual activities which are, you know, not for the masses— people don't know about this— it enhances your sense of self. It enhances your egoic persona in powerful ways. And on the other side, if I view myself as merely one small drop in the ocean of creation, and I recognize that everyone else is a— is like, like me, a drop in this ocean, I'm going to look at them more naturally with compassion just because how I oriented myself.

Yeah.

So yes, what you're saying is true, but at the highest level, for people who have dedicated a lifetime to a mystical pursuit, whether it be a cult or esoteric or philosophical or otherwise, whether they're practicing magicians or, you know, armchair philosophers of it, um, you can find people on both sides of the aisle who can sit at a table and have a beautiful discussion and share a conversation and have no animosity and can be of like mind. Because there is a certain juncture which you hit when you pursue these, these roads. All these roads come to one juncture, and then what you choose to do at that juncture determines what will happen for you after, what path you'll, you'll be set upon after that.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, that's a useful distinction what you're saying, and that's a little color commentary on it.

Yeah, a little more. Is the political system of left and right, uh, manifestation of that same thing in the terms of how the general leftist ideology, communistic stuff that gets played out in the political spectrum usually leads to, let's say, genocide at its end result, versus the right hand, it's like, okay, let people live, truth, honor help people, family, all that kind of thing. Seems to be the general— obviously again, there are people on both sides who are doing good and bad, and I don't think, at least in the traditional system now, that people should be like, oh, the right is perfectly 100% good, let's support it all the way. It's, it's not that. But in general, I think because that is called the left and then there is the right, it's—

it just makes sense that that's philosophically— I think you're, you're right on the money. And And again, we look at it in terms of orientation. So ready? The left, the fundamental philosophic orientation for any leftist ideology would be collectivism, which is that the whole is to serve. You know, you exist to serve the whole. This is like collectivism, right? So this is like the left-hand orientation in a spiritual way. It's like the whole thing is there and I'm gonna, you know, so it's this, it's a little bit inverted, but the fruit bears you know, from the tree. So you can kind of like match it based on the outcomes of things because we have history to observe. But yeah, and the right does it in a different way. It says, oh, we're in— we're an individual, a bunch of individuals, we have to unite. Now on the face of it, this is like an inverse because I said before, spiritually, the left is like the individual is the thing. But there's this principle that when you go from world to world, everything inverts. It's like going through a looking glass. Everything becomes upside down and backwards when you go from one world to the next. So this is a more nuanced kind of like principle of spiritual— I don't want to say manifestation, but spiritual energies or something like that. Yeah, but so when you get to a mundane playing field, you'll see some things that are inverted on the face of it. But if you peer deeply enough, you'll see, yeah, you're right, the idea of collectivism leads to genocide and authoritarianism, fascism and dictatorship. And the ideas on the right leads to creative expression, harmonious like voluntary network and social engagement and promotes the things which are best for the most number of people without any type of other interference.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, absolutely. And if the principle is sound in one world, it should be sound across all things. So you have a great litmus test when you're trying to decipher a spiritual principle where you take it and you just stretch it out and put it on everything. You look at a tree and you go, well, left and right, okay, how can I think about this? And you might go, Oh, well, left and right, but let me turn that sideways and it's under the ground and above the ground. Now it's up and down. But you'll have some navigating principle to start to consider different things. And if you hit a dead end with it, it's a good time to pause and put that down for a while. Go have some life experience, revisit it. But if you reach what you feel to be a perpetual dead end, you have to go back to the drawing board of that principle and reassess whether you may have had some error at the foundation of forming it, you know, and that's a great It's a great tool. It's one I've used my entire life to refine my own sort of approach to things.

How long have you been researching this stuff and studying now?

I mean, technically since I was like 15, so, you know, 20-something years at this point. But in actuality, it goes back earlier because when I was a kid, I went to church when I was a kid and I was a lector and an altar server. But I also did martial arts, jiu-jitsu. And so I had learned to meditate. They were very big on meditation at the beginning of our sessions. So I had this meditation skill that I was developing at 5, 6 years old. And then I would go to church and talk about lofty things like God and Jesus and all this, but I would get bored with the mundane ritual of it all. And so I would just meditate on what was being talked about. So this began for me like 5, 6 years old. And then I got molested, unfortunately, by the priest that was there. And he ended up going to jail for molesting a friend of mine that was also there. I knew when I was a kid. But when that happened to me, it was like one of the worst things ever, but also one of the best things in a way. And by that, I mean that it caused a sort of fracture in my mind. And I just went into that meditation space at church because I really didn't want to be. It was like very uncomfortable, but it catalyzed in me relationship with something inside. And I began to have imaginings. I could see things, you know, like it was like people. In fact, the guy on the cross, it was like I would see that, close my eyes, see the negative image, and it would come alive in my mind. And it would talk about energy and the life and love and people and all sorts of things. For years this went on. And so that was a foundation in esoteric studies and occult science that I had no idea I was getting. And as time goes on, you know how you might forget about a whole chapter of your life and then it rushes back later like a lightning bolt.

Yeah.

So fast forward many years later, I'm now, I'm, you know, 15, 16, something, 17 years old and I'm reading some book and there was just one sentence in the book and it was like the whole experience of all those years crashed upon me. Then I had totally forgotten it. And then all of a sudden, like a lightning bolt, I was back.

Yeah.

And I was like, whoa. And I was like, tears were pouring down my face. It was very emotional. It was very powerful. I went outside, I looked at the trees and I was like, Oh my God, it's all real. It was like getting a letter to Hogwarts and thinking like it's all fake, and then you get the letter and you're like, shit, it was real the whole time. Yeah. Oh my God. So that was my experience there. If it wasn't for that, I would not have had a foundation, and I'm sure I would have gotten waylaid in some dark alley. And I've been down plenty of dark alleys with this stuff, but I've never done anything or gone anywhere that I couldn't recover from and learn a lesson from and become wiser for it. And so I have a library of about probably 4,800 physical books and a digital library of like 7,000 books. And it is exclusively focused on pursuing universal principles and universal, uh, spiritual truths that you can overlay over anything, whether it be history, philosophy, nutrition, science, chemistry, biology, math, geometry, or astrology, tarot, Kabbalah, um, you know, Sufi, Sufi mysticism, shamanism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, you name it, yoga. If it's true, it's always true all the time. And if it doesn't look true, you have to look harder, or you go back to the drawing board.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's at least the central principle for me that rings true, is that people around the world, different cultures, different times, they align across these underlying principles, and it can be packaged in different religions and different ways of thinking, but at the brass tacks of it, like underneath it all, there are things that you can connect the dots and say, oh, they say this, and then these people say this. Okay, so these two different communities, cultures, wise men have come to the same conclusion. There must be some truth to it, because if there isn't truth to it, then it wouldn't have come to being, and they wouldn't have realized the same thing. So for me, that really is just the obvious scientific experiment that shows that there's, you know, this is the truth and it's not something that's woo-woo and therefore you can just discount it. Because okay bro, you are the only one that has like figured out that this stuff is all bullshit compared to thousands of years of cultures, and like you're the smartest one that, you know, with people that have studied this for decades of their life across cultures, passed down through generations of monks and priests and all the rest of it, you're the one that's figured out it's all BS. And you know, like, that just doesn't— that is the more ludicrous, more crazy thing to believe to me. And so when I kind of realized that, I was like, okay, there's something to this. And then especially with, you know, what do you think of synchronicity? Do you experience that? And the idea of, oh, it's just a coincidence. Because even yesterday I was riding my bike and repeating numbers is a synchronicity that when you first start to understand these ideas and open yourself up to it, you see repeating numbers, that that's usually like a little nod from God. So I was just on my bike and then I was like, "Oh, you should go down that road." And I was like, "Okay." And now I know what that voice sounds like, that little suggestion to just take a left when I was usually gonna take a right or walk down this way, whatever it is. I take a right, first car I see, 555. And then I get home, look at the time, as I get out, just check my phone, 555. Like, it's within a space of 30 minutes. Like, that happens pretty much every day to me now when I pursue that voice that is like the knowing of, you know, being directed by the higher power, the soul's own knowingness.

Exactly. Yeah. So this takes us in. So synchronicity is, um, in the work that I do and also in the things that I write about, which at this point there's very little of which is out, aside from certain people that I work with. But synchronicity is a major, major principle at play because it is a feedback mechanism between what's outside and what's inside. So if we talk about synchronicity, we say it's an alignment of something on the outside with something on the inside in a way that you couldn't predict or expect to happen.

Mm-hmm.

Now, if one of those things happen once, someone might say, perhaps an agnostic might say, well, that's a coincidence, and that's fine. But when you start to think about these things, when you start to work upon your own consciousness, when you start to develop your consciousness with intentionality and you go down these roads, uh, you will always experience synchronicity, uh, in heightened forms to the point that within a few hours you'll have dozens of events happening. And not just, uh, not to minimize something such as a number thing, but it'll be something that's like a connection that will change your life forever, and it'll be 5 of them in an hour. No way.

Yeah.

So when that starts to package together like that you start to really disavow yourself of any doubt that it doesn't work this way. Yeah. And so the more that that doubt subsides, the more space is made for the experience of reality in such a way. But the only way that we can discuss reality as having this natural phenomenon present within it, accessible to all people at all times if they have the mindset or the consciousness to pursue it, uh, is to talk about reality like a simulation that was constructed all at once in an instant, which in fact is like a lightning bolt. And we're back to where we started.

Yeah.

And in fact, that is the best way I've come to discuss it. I don't think we're in a hard drive or a microchip. That's the hard simulation theory.

Simulations use loose— Soft simulation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that it's a schema. It's a structure. And in fact, everything is that way. And you know, I've had this great conversation with a few interesting simulation theorists over the years. And I always go back to this. I say, look, even if we exist in a microchip and your perspective is true, I said, how are we existing in the microchip? And they say, well, it's like electrical impulses. And I said, what are you anyways? And they're like, oh shit, it's the same thing anyway. So it's like, it's just, it's just about context. Like, do I want to be nice or do I want to not be nice? That, you know, yeah, it boils down to that.

That's, that's the, that's the thing, right? It's like your success, the success of others, the happiness that you experience and what you want to get done in this world is not dependent on whether or not this is a simulation. This is— it could be a simulation, it could be all a dream, it can be in a microchip, or it can be some energetic vibrational soup.

Yeah, oceanic soup. Yeah.

The end result is still the same. You can work with the principles that are generally observable and true across all these different worlds, or— and even your own world, internal or external. Or you can try to like control everything, this human, like I'm the tinkerer and that's it, and this is the scary world and everything is chance and there is nothing else other than this biological creation and I am a monkey. That just leads to, you know, depression and like lack of success. And so if you actually want to make the most of whatever this is, if you know, some people say that they know what it is, some people figure it out. Some people haven't figured it out, whatever. Like, the only logical action then is to try to align with what you see is observably true through cause and effect and through repetition of some actions. Some things work, some things don't. If I have these beliefs, how this— how are these beliefs going to serve me? Does it work better when I think that I'm the only one in this world and I'm completely alone and is all the rest of it, or does it work better when I think that whatever is out there that I am a part of that's running all of the different biological cellular processes that keep me alive unconsciously all the time, this energy that's flowing through everything and animating everything— what works better? And it's always indescribably the latter, correct? So that's how I see it, and that's how I've come to see it. And all of the doors that have opened and all of the magic that's happened is a result of changing that belief in my mind because I've experienced nothing else. And then the doubt falls away, and then it's like, well, we're good now.

It's funny as you're talking— so we're outside recording this at a beautiful park here, and, uh, there's a group of small school children, I don't know what, like 4 years old, 5 years old, something like that, and they're all rolling down this hill laughing and giggling. And as you're talking about this idea, I'm reminded of the Gnostic perspective that, you know, the Demiurge, you know, locked us all in and siphons our chi or whatever, siphons our energy, and it's a great prison. And I'm looking at these children and they're just like so filled with joy, and they're laughing and they're rolling in the sun and they're playing and they're hugging. And I'm like, tell them it's a prison. Like, tell those kids they live in a prison, you know? Wrong.

Yeah.

So is it a prison? Is it a school? Why not both? Why not it's up to you to decide and make it that thing? And that your own thoughts have that ability because, oh, we're made in the image of the Creator, which is a creator, and our words and our thoughts have vibratory effects on our surroundings. And oh, what if I link my words and thoughts with objects? Oh, what if I have correspondence between my words and the objects and bigger things like planets? Oh, that's a ritual. Oh, what's the point of the ritual? Is it to ensnare someone in a trap? Is it to make someone fall in love or pick the winning lottery numbers? Or do you have a greater purpose? And you can't persuade someone one way or the other. You just have to have the wisdom to recognize who's on what path and stay away from the people that aren't on your path and make space for people to venture towards you and link with the people who are on your path earnestly. And as you assist them in their unfolding, they assist you in your unfolding. And that's how, you know, that's how the magic happens. And yeah, synchronicity, just to circle back on that a little bit, is, you know, when I work with people in this domain, uh, with occultism or esotericism and things of that nature At the beginning, very often the experience is like, what am I doing? This is a waste of time. You're nuts. What's going on? You know? And so you lose people that way. And that's fine. I'm happy to have those people. Like, see you later. But for the people who stick around, then all of a sudden things start to happen. The synchronicity start to happen. The coincidences, the alignments. And it's a test in which you cannot cheat. You cannot fake your graduation. You cannot forge your certificate of completion. Life itself will give you the pass to move to the next level, or it will not. And if it doesn't, you will be presented with what's necessary to prepare for the next encounter you'll have. And if you live that way, it will take you to shores uncharted in any book, in any imagination, and it never ends. And there will always be another thing and a bigger fish and another island and another coastline to pursue. And, and in a million lives, you'll never have enough time to scratch an inch of what's out there. Yeah, that's the beautiful thing of what we are and where we are.

Yeah. So in terms of the simulation and us, as I understand it, we are a soul that has had previous lifetimes, different experiences that as far as time works kind of all happen at the same time. Time as we—

that's a high-level concept. Yeah, that's exactly right. Past lives don't have to be in the past.

Yeah.

Because it's all once, it's all one instant.

Yeah. So the point of this whole thing, I guess, is to experience what we experience, learn what we can, and elevate our consciousness, which is the soul's perspective of everything that's happened in this physical realm. Is this then— I mean, you can expand on this, whatever you understand it to be, the physical 3D world matrix, if you call it that, that our soul has been put into temporarily in this life to learn and elevate our consciousness. Sorry about the noise. Um, so that one day, whether it's in this lifetime or the next or whatever it is, to understand the fundamental principles so much that so we can kind of transcend this physical reality and exist in an energetic reality in a different dimension.

So that's a— so I'm going to focus on the last part that you said about the transcendence idea. Uh, this is what's known as, uh, the last trap or the last gate. It's not really the last gate, but it's one of the, the big ones for the first round of like going up a ladder. Yeah. And it's, you know, you, you have this idea— not you, a person has this idea. I had this idea has this idea that they're in a place that's low and they want to transcend it and go to a higher place. And this sets us in motion down a path. And like we said before, you have the goals and then you become someone on your way to achieve the goal and you think, oh, I can get a better goal. And then you become someone new and so on and so forth. And so the last thing that has to be transcended is the desire to transcend. That's the final release, the final submission. Right, so to speak. And it's, of course, it's not really the final. It just starts a whole other round of things that, and you go, whoa, I didn't even know any of this was going on. Like, what the hell? Like, you know, it's, life has this funny way of, you take the test and you, and you go, all right, God, I'm ready. Give me the hardest, scrape the bottom of my barrel, like take everything I got and put it all over me. I'm gonna do it. And you, and you do it and you finish it and you're like, I can't believe I did it. That was great. And then this little paper cut, this little splinter comes out of nowhere and hits you like a hurricane and absolutely demolishes you. And you're like, no way, I knew I was good with that, what do you mean? And you're just devastated. And it will always take you there until you transcend that rhythm, and then you'll still have experiences, but it won't— you won't engage with them the same way. It'll be, it'll be different. And so as far as this idea that the soul's incarnated in the flesh and all this, I, I happen to think that, and I guess every generation thinks this, and maybe, maybe every generation should, should think this because maybe it's true for them all, but I happen to think that we're in a fairly unique time right now where the encroaching, uh, global authoritarianism has not locked the door yet, but boy are they polishing the bars, you know. Boy, are they, are they tuning it up. And so the very devices that have been designed and implemented into our, you know, society and social engineering, those devices to ensnare us, really, the drawstring hasn't been pulled tight yet. And so it still has given us an unparalleled level of connectivity and communication. You know, thank you Elon for working, you know, getting Twitter back online, so to speak, and dealing with the free speech issue, because I think my— I think Twitter is the most important company that ever existed. Existed because of the— not because of what it's done so far, but because of what it could do, because what could be done in a forum like that.

Yeah.

And it— the sad thing is that people have the idea that it takes 51%. This is a tragedy that people think it takes 51% of any type of group to make a change.

Much smaller.

But yeah, I mean, if you look at the Revolutionary War, it was like— I think it was like 3% of people were like pro, and like 1% of people like actively like engaged and fought. And I could— I'm not a history buff, I could be wrong, but it was very small.

Yeah.

And like, that's all it took because that 1% emboldens the 10% to go, you know, tacitly, I agree, but I'm scared, you know, I'm scared that my neighbor will see my Pepe flag, and so I'm gonna, you know, put that in my trunk and like not, not say it's cool, and I'm not gonna say kek, but like when I see that guy do it, I'm like, inside I'm like, yeah, yeah. And then there's another like 25% that really just doesn't give a shit one way or the other. They just want to be with the the right side.

Yeah.

And whoever's got the most passion and the most energy and the coolest and the hippest and like not, you know, the authoritarian anxiety-laden purple-haired whatever, like they want to just be with that. So it's this domino effect. And so to get to that 1%, you really just need like 6, 7 people that don't give a damn and ball out with everything on the table and like don't care. Yeah. And just punch in the same direction with the same, you know, alignment. And if they do that, that's going to attract another 20 or 30. And by the way, this is the system that the elites use, the so-called powers that be or whatever. They make systems as rings within rings. So there's 3 people, they form a group, they invite 10 more people, and those 13 people are all told you're the inner circle. But there's a 3-person inner circle of that 10 person, you know. And then that 13 people invite 100 people and they go, okay, this 113 people is the inner circle. This is how they steer and navigate things. One way that it's done. Alice Quigley talks about this in Tragedy and Hope, you know, discloses this methodology of rings within rings. And so back to the question of the soul and being present on the earth at this time, for me, it's like, it's not that I'm not here to have like, to like learn stuff or do anything, 'cause of course I am. And I'm doing that every day in very powerful ways. But we're here to like be an enzyme, be a catalyst in this moment of time and push it in a certain direction that it wouldn't go without us, without you, without me, without a million other people we don't know. And only a very small percentage of those people are gonna do it with full consciousness of what they're doing. So many people will be involved in this and are involved in it, but very few of them know really truly what they're doing. Those are the people to find. In the ocean of darkness. Those are the people to bring together. And if you can get 6 or 7 of those people out of 500 million, that will change the world. That definitely will change the world, and it's going to, and it's happening right now.

Yeah, and people listen to this podcast, exactly, going to spread the information, spread the ideas to a couple people each that they know, whether consciously or unconsciously. And the network effect of that is, you know, the butterfly effect, even from a tweet. This is what I love about Twitter. Again, it's like I can have a realization, a thought that comes to me, uh, put that out into the world, and tens of thousands of people will see depending on, you know, how viral it goes or whatever. The catalytic effects of that one tweet is really inconceivable to us now, where it's like, why would you not to take advantage of this system, of this megaphone that's coming out there and also realize that what you do does matter because of that. Even if you don't have a Twitter account as such, if you're positively influencing the people that are around you and being that, you know, "Hey, you can do whatever you want, man," like to people that you meet and in whatever capacity, you're a teacher at a school, within your friends like, "Hey man, like don't be scared of this thing, you can go do it. Like, whatever that is, whatever that role is for you— everyone has their own particular role, uh, to fulfill, and none are better than others. It's just what we are in at the same time, uh, and the same moment, that it's like, it's motivating, it's beautiful. And when you relentlessly pursue that and things start to happen, because it is in service of the whole cosmos, everything becomes energetically charged because of that. And you'll experience Even if— okay, so this is like the other thing. If, if all you care about is your own success, which you shouldn't obviously, but the highest chance of you getting the highest levels of success comes when you help other people. If you don't believe in the energetic connection, it's because, oh, that person you do a favor for and now they'll be more likely to give you a favor or they'll know a friend that's like, hey, this guy helped me, I'm gonna help him. That's the reductionist perspective of it, but the function of it is the same, is like help people, encourage people, support people, give information that you realize out to people because you don't know what it will affect on who will— whose life it will improve. And that's really in whatever you do how you should view it all.

Yeah, and in fact, this is actually a mystical or spiritual principle that I deal with in the coaching or training and the work that I do when I work with people, which often is met with the greatest sort of like incredulity by people. And it's the simple idea that random acts of loving kindness, smaller the better, the smaller the better, but random acts of loving kindness are the accelerant, the greatest accelerant to your own spiritual growth and your own unlocking of the mystical knowledge hidden in the arcane books and all this kind of stuff. Because it acts like a sort of glue, a sort of etheric fabric that it builds up and it builds up like static electricity. And then in the right moment, with the right keyword or the right catalyzing line in a book or some, you know, phrase from a song or billboard sign or number on a license plate, doesn't matter. All that static electricity that you generate through random acts of loving kindness with other people and animals and just whatever and yourself coagulates and hits you like a ton of bricks.

Lightning bolt.

Lightning bolt. Exactly, exactly. And it's on. And once you experience— once someone experiences this kind of a dynamic one single time, it's enough to know that it's real. And now you're hunting for it. Now you're pursuing it. Now you're trying to say, okay, how do I make this like the norm for me? How do I— I don't want this like peak experience once in a while. Yeah. And then you find out, oh, but in fact the norm is the rhythm. So also the lows are part of them. So then you accept that, and then you go, oh, but I can be here in the lows too, though. I don't have to be here only in the high. Like, wait a second.

Yeah.

And now you just transcended highs and lows.

Yeah.

And now there's a whole— but then there's a whole other plane of rhythm that happens in the next level up, and it— I have not found a bottom or a top to it, and I don't think I ever will.

Yeah.

I don't think anybody ever has.

Yeah.

But it's quite beautiful though. It's, it's an art unto itself.

Do you think then that even the idea of a low being a low or a high being a high is just a human perspective because it's just completely rhythm. Like, there's a judgment there, right? Exactly. Like, this situation is a low for me and I should feel bad, and these circumstances mean, oh, I'm in a low. And then, oh, this external success means I'm on top of the world now and now I can feel good about myself. It's like that dichotomy is in itself an illusion.

Yeah, but Perfectly said. Do you know the story of the boy and his horse? It's like a Zen proverb or a Chinese saying or something.

I think I heard Shia LaBeouf say it on a podcast.

Okay, so yeah, Shia, move over, I'm gonna sit on this one right now. No, just kidding. I know you're out there, Shia. You listen to Sol, I'm sure.

He's, he's— yeah, he knows some stuff, man.

Yeah.

Oh, he knows.

Yeah, yeah, he, he's one of the ones I, I really enjoy watching break through the layers. And, and, uh, people like that, he's been through it, you know.

He was like anti-Trump that had that whole thing, and now he's Mochile and like his acting and everything.

Yeah, yeah, through the roof. But the story, yeah, so, so it's, it's quite simple. So there's a boy and his father and they have a single horse on a farm. And the horse, one night there's a storm, lightning storm, and the thunder booms and the horse runs away. And the boy comes out the next morning, sees the horse is gone, runs to the father. He's in tears, he's so upset. We're gonna starve, we're gonna die with all this stuff. The dad's on the rocking chair on the porch, cool as a cucumber, chilling, whatever. Horse comes back a few days later. Pack of wild colts follow it back. The kid's like, "We're rich, rich!

This is great!

Oh my God!" The horses go back to the stables. The dad says, "Alright, go to work. Now you have more work to do." So the kid's like, "Ah," you know, griping. But he goes back. He's brushing the horses. One of the horses kicks him, breaks his leg. Breaks his arm, excuse me. So he goes back to the dad. He's all bleeding. His arm's all mangled. And the dad's like, "Alright, well, patch it up. You're fine. No big deal." And he's like, "How can you not think this is terrible?" 2 days later, knock at the door. It's the military general or whatever, the recruiter for— there's a war going on the next town over and like everyone's getting decimated, everyone's getting like murked over there. So they're like, we're taking your boy for the battle. And he looks at the kid with the sling and he goes, all right, we can't. And he moves on to the next house. The kid looks at the dad about to say, this is great, stops and says, we'll see, we'll see. So that's the whole— so what is a high? What is a low? A low is only something that can be understood in isolation, in a vacuum. But life is a constant dynamic rhythmic unfolding process. It's not a static entity. It's a procedural thing. So the low only seems like a low because you didn't see where it went. But when you find out that it's—

You haven't seen where it's going.

Or you haven't seen yet. Yeah, exactly. You haven't seen where it's going. And you could say, well, yeah, we'll go to another low. Okay, no one's gonna have low forever. It just is impossible. If you do, then that's a mindset problem. That's a mindset problem. And objectively, yeah, getting into a car accident, totaling your car, your house burns down, losing a loved one or something. Yeah, obviously these are not positive quote unquote experiences, but the goal of this kind of training and this kind of pursuit and this kind of consciousness is that you are unshackled from the compulsive need to reactively respond to external stimuli, whatever they may be. I won $10 million. My house just burned down. You move through both those experiences with the same centered perspective, and you are free to choose which emotions you give when. Now, if I want to experience it like a human, I'm going to allow myself to experience all that stuff.

Yep.

And then when I complete that process, I'm gonna go, okay, moving on. It's not like a torture. It's not like being dragged through the mud. This is the point of all this stuff. But humans come up against the fact that they're actually quite addicted to those dramas. And so that's another thing to watch out for when you're doing this kind of work and you work with people in this way. You have to be able to identify fairly quickly, or you get pulled into these mazes, uh, who says the right words but they aren't taking the right action, they're not really about it. And who says you're crazy, you're nuts, this is all garbage, and I don't believe in that, but in— but from their actions you're reading and you're going, wait a second, no, they're actually hungry for that, and I'm going to put more time to that person.

Yeah.

And that discernment just comes from practice or experience and just trying and being wrong a lot, you know, getting into jams.

Yeah, so in the sense of when you're spreading this truth that you understand at your current moment in time and educating other people, teaching other people, you're spreading this network effect of these consciousness models which are objectively improving the reality that we're in. Are there negative entities that exist that will seek to stop that from happening? And that is partially some of the negative events or experiences that you may have with human appearances of a human that unfold in your life. Because, you know, if you look at it from this perspective of If there is light, there is dark. And objectively, if the darkness wants all the negative things to happen and wants the level of energy to decrease and feed off of that, wouldn't it make sense then that the resistance that you come across when you're trying to uplevel everyone is a result of those negative entities and forces trying to dim that light. Is that— does that exist? And what are those entities? If they—

yeah, that's a great— that's yes. And we're gonna go with layers here. So at the highest, at the highest level, or at the highest layer of consciousness or perspective, just like the highs and lows aren't objectively good and bad, these forces aren't objectively good and bad. They're, they're necessary. This gets to the mystery, the highest mysteries of the nature of God, which is how does nothing, how does zero become one? First of all. And how one becomes many, we can— okay, we can parse that. You can spend a lifetime studying that. But you can't even truly ask the question of how does nothing become something, because, you know, the Jews, the mystical Jews, they use the phrase Ein Sof for this idea of like nothingness, basically. It's not exact— that's not an exact translation, but it is imponderable. Even to say that it's imponderable is to say too much. I've already said too much. To say you can't contemplate it is to say too much of it, of its nature. You can only know it by negative knowing, and even that's too much to say.

Yeah.

And so this zero-to-one idea is like the ultimate mystery of the highest pursuit. And if you throw yourself at that, you will never ever break through. You will never ever learn anything, but it will teach you the ways of wisdom, that's for sure. And it'll make everything else happen faster, but also make you go crazy. First. So big note of caution on that for anybody wanting to pursue nothing, uh, caution ahead. Yeah, but as far as your question, so that's up at the highest level that we say these things are happening. They're necessary, uh, dynamics which were required by the mysterious plan God birthed in his nothingness to unfold himself for his own purposes, for which we may or may not understand. So that's the highest level. But yeah, okay, let's talk about The fact that when my mentor in nutritional sciences detoxification, who for 55, now 58 years has been doing things I can't say in public on TV or on radio or anything because I would get in trouble for saying it, right? And I think we all know where that's going. Is it God of knowledge? No, because if I say, "Oh, I can make something, if I can make a disease go away." Right, yeah, don't come after that. Right, exactly. Why does he have a bunch of peers that were doing research on enzyme therapies who one drowned, one's plane crashed, one killed himself, right? These are healthy people, stable people doing research that shows what happens when you flood the body with whole food, whole food cofactor, highly active medical grade enzymes. When you put that in the body, miraculous things start to happen. You can't do it in isolation, but that's one piece. People studying that around him all dying over decades. Like, what? Yeah, that's not a— that's not a coincidence. That's not a chance. So, so there are forces, and they're physical and they're spiritual. Now, the, the trouble with something like this, if you and I are talking one-on-one, we're gonna have a conversation about this, it's gonna go a certain way. But there might be people in the audience who could hear that conversation. There might be people who need to hear the opposite of that conversation. So for example, some people they come to me and they say, "Oh, these demons, these entities, all this stuff is going on." And I say, "Okay, well, let's just go ahead and just forget about that for a minute. Let's just actually think about your mind." Right? Doesn't mean they're wrong. It just means that's the wrong thing to focus on for them. Some people come to me and they say, "It's my mind, it's my mind. I can't get out of it." And I say, "Mm, you might have some spiritual influences happening here. Let's take a look under the hood a little bit. Let's see what's going on." So this is kind of a case-by-case thing, but from a philosophic perspective, the most important ideas that I, I kind of talk about in the models that I've developed over the last 8 or 9 years, um, is the idea of an egregore.

Yep.

And the idea of electromagnetic energy in terms of entities. So when we talk about an entity, there's 3 conditions necessary for something to be an entity of any type— human, cellular, spiritual, whatever, cosmic. It has to have some type of bounded condition. In other words, it has to be differentiated from one thing from another thing. It has to have its own boundary condition. It has to have, uh, what humans— what we could call, uh, you know, will or desire. It has to have something it wants to do and the means to do, right? And whatever that might be, it could be a 60,000-year, 60-million-year evolutionary arc which it feels is an automatic part of its being, but it knows it's doing something. And it has to have agency. It has to have the means to pursue that will, that, that idea. If it has those three things, it's an entity. So your cell looks at glucose and it knows to go towards the glucose and bring the glucose through the cell wall because it needs it for energy. It's an entity. It's got a bounded condition, it's got a goal, and it's got agency to make it happen. We do the same thing, and things that have different types of bodies in the electromagnetic spectrum of existence, uh, also do the same things. So Those entities, uh, you can divide in many different ways. Depends on the world you're dealing with, depends on the, the dynamics and nature at play. Most of what is considered to be evil, uh, of spiritual entities is probably misunderstood by human beings, but certainly there is much which is evil, and, and, or so to speak, like negative forces. And they absolutely have the ability to manipulate mostly through other humans' minds. That's why we guard the mind so powerfully and so closely. There are cases in which you can have spiritual phenomena. Something can— you can have an apparition, you can have— you can see something, you can— I mean, there's things that happen and they're real. A lot of what people talk about with those things, I think, is the product of their own imagination in many cases. But just like a charlatan reading tarot cards might, for one person, invalidate the principle of tarot cards being a an effective technology, it doesn't mean that there aren't use cases where when it's done right and it's done properly, it has something powerful. So the entities, we— it's best to treat the idea of entities that are non-physical the same way you treat things that are physical. If you meet somebody new or you encounter a situation or a group of people, you're asking yourself, do I feel safe? Do I not feel safe? What seems their intentions? Could I be being deceived? Could I be being tricked? These are all like valuable things that we should keep in mind as we go.

Yep.

The issue with humans is we're so easily impressed by so little. So if someone is having a spiritual experience and something happens they can't explain, they'll take that to mean that it must be a good thing, when in case— in point in case, it doesn't mean that it's good necessarily. It has nothing to do with good or bad. And so this is again an aspect of the mind which runs away. So Entities, spiritual entities, you know, it depends on which tradition. The grimoire traditions talk about contacting entities and having them do things for you and bind them and all this kind of stuff. You have stories about angels pulling someone out of a way and then turning around and the thing is gone. In the shamanistic tradition, you are using your consciousness to navigate to different realms of existence, and this is a practice I've engaged with for most of my life, where you can actually meet guides of yours. And then the Christians might say, oh, those guides are demons, and you opened it up through yoga. And so everybody's got a story about all this stuff. But at the end of the day, we know a tree by its fruits, principally and first. It doesn't mean you can't be deceived. It doesn't mean something negative won't do something, quote-unquote, good. So these things are not simple matters. And it should be dealt with case by case when people are having experiences. But I think of egregores even more importantly than I do entities. I give more weight to the egregore. Yeah. And also the, you know, they have like gravity like black holes, you know, and egregore does. It pulls things in. And what I have found in my own, what I have found is, or what I, the way I think about it, is that entities will use egregores like sock puppets because the egregore will be linked through these threads of consciousness to many, many people's individuated subconscious, individuated soul expressions that they're kicking about in reality with. And so an entity can get into an egregore, particularly if the symbolism associated with that egregore is placed in prominent views like on a billboard or on cars like we were talking about before, the symbolism on cars, can get into that egregore and can have an influential effect down that chain of causality into individual people's experiences. And it all gets very hairy. The problem is, is that most people are too ready to make up a story and embrace and accept a story that they're a victim to some outside force or principle, whether it's their race, their education, their wealth or lack thereof, their geographic location, whatever it is, what happened to them, what happened to them, their abuse or trauma. These things can be real, but the willingness for people— I found in working, I've worked with, I've talked to thousands and thousands of people over the years in various ways about different things like this, and definitely that's one of the greatest things to be guarded against. And so if you introduce some metaphysical spiritual thing that can become a new potential victimhood-making process, it has far more damage than it's objectively being true and needs to be dealt with. So there's a monk or Buddhist or something that said, if the devil comes to you while you're meditating, make the devil meditate. It's this idea that even if there is a spiritual entity and it's got its claws on me, I'm not locked in here with you, bro. You work for me now. Now you're locked in here with me. Oh, you thought you had me? No, I've got you now.

Yeah.

And so of course I'm not advocating to like summon up entities. And I'm not saying if you feel that you're being spiritually influenced by some dark force or something like that, take a second and realize how powerful you are, and that most of the power coming from that influence in a negative way is coming because you're thinking thoughts that are allowing it to have that sort of agency. Now, I've also done depossession work where somebody ate a bunch of, you know, psychedelic substances or did something and open themselves up to some really negative stuff and got tangled up in like really bad dissociative states. I mean, what someone would have been put into like a mental institution for. And over the course of several weeks working with someone in that kind of a situation, uh, they were more or less restored and then had some work to do for the next year or two to kind of get everything oiled up and tightened back up. But it was like, it was like, it was a moment. It was like a process was done and then the person opened their eyes and all that was gone. And it was gone, it never came back. So there's definitely things like that, but I tend not to get into it too much in public domains just because there's too much chance for people to get further jammed up.

Yeah, the takeaway is always God is overarchingly powerful over everything. You are made in the image of him. You only have as much— yeah, they only have as much power as you give them. Any entity, idea, people can have just a belief about themselves themselves that will make their life shit for their entire lives if they believe that belief and they never are conscious of, oh, they're doing it to themselves. Whether that is, you know, they're attracting that negative energy because it's a very low vibrational belief, or they never achieve anything because they believe my family is cursed, something like that. People believe these things, and because they believe them, then that leads that to, you know, have a negative effect more so than like the devil's wringing his hands. He's like, yes! And he hasn't had to do anything. It's the person themselves that has cursed themselves with their belief of that thing. So yeah, exactly. The takeaway then is nothing is as powerful as your own mind. You have the protection of God. You're a child of God.

And lean into that. Lean into that. I mean, for me, you know, people talk about Christ as a savior primarily. That's the primary way that Christians talk about Christ. For me, I think of him probably more as a teacher more than anything. Not that I don't see it that way also, but I'm saying for me, my personal relationship with that person is as a teacher because he literally taught me all this stuff that I know. Like, I didn't— I'm not smart. I didn't figure it out. Like, you know what I mean? It was handed to me. It was given to me with responsibility. And then you're tested too. To get the next level. Then you're testing, you're testing, and you think you can handle any test, and then that, that paper cut comes that you didn't see coming, and it's like, whoo, it's agony. But you learn as you grow. And if you're willing to— you know, all magic requires sacrifice, but the only worthy sacrifice is a sacrifice of the self, to my mind. Yeah, you know, you have no right to sacrifice anything else. Yeah, just the self. Yeah, and the self you sacrifice is not real anyways, because there's another self that blooms from that. And from that, and from those ashes, and from those ashes. And you do that enough, and you stop even thinking about that process. You get into a whole other level of the mechanics of it all, and it's just like a whole different game unfolds. And you just keep going, and then you're like, oh, how do I teach people to do that? And they're like, oh, how do I make sure this goes on for like a really long time? Because I only have like a split second here. Damn, but this is like, this has to last. And then, so then you start thinking about institutional change, and that's where you get into entities more than anything. The utility of consideration for entities Egregores is when you want to make institutional change that's going to be not multi-generational but multi-millennia. If you want to make really long-lasting change for a really long time, you have to understand the landscape under which those forces play out and the chessboard that's there, that exists there. And it's— yeah, you'll come up against some gnarly stuff, man. I've meditated and had an experience and realized that I went into somebody's little cave, you know. I didn't belong there, and they knew that I was there, and they were like, I don't like that, and now I'm gonna punish you for it. And I was like, oh damn, this is real. Like, Hogwarts is real, but so is the Death Eaters. Oh no, like, shoot, you don't get one without the other. I guess I'm kind of jammed up now. So, so then I mean, you learn and you learn, and if you have God's grace, which is all that it is, it's not a worth thing, it's a grace thing, then you turn in, you turn what could have been a fatality into, into a learning experience, and you keep going, and you try and help other people avoid those pitfalls so that their process and their growth can be faster and faster than yours was. And great teachers, they shouldn't try and have a lot of students, they should try and create a lot of teachers. And a great teacher should take someone that's starting further off than they started, and in a shorter amount of time, that person should eclipse them. Yeah, in some way, shape, or form. Form. Yeah, because they've got the benefit of a compressed life experience, so of course it should go faster.

Yeah.

And then that person should do the same thing in turn. And if you like— 6 people, man, 7 people, maybe 12, who knows. But yeah, you know, not a lot to make it happen.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Um, so as far as I can really remember, starting probably in my teenage years, I've had recurring nightmares that in some way, shape, or form, I'll be in a random situation— a house, a place, outdoors, indoors— and I'll come face to face with some very typically scary-looking demon entity thing that I do battle with. Sometimes it's just a recurring loop where I get torn to pieces. I've had that before. Um, where I'm vanquishing them, where I lose and then I wake up. And that's happened to me again for like, you know, since my teenage years, close to 15 years. Not, you know, very, very consistently, but consistently. What do you understand the dream world to be? And is that just a reflection of the psychosomatic beliefs that I have about myself that, you know, maybe I feel trapped in whatever else is happening in this 3D world, and then I'm like trapped by this monster in my dream, and then that's playing out, or is it more of a kind of when you're asleep you're going into these other realms that you don't— you can't access when you're, you know, consciously awake in this 3D reality, and that is an actual negative entity that it's recognizing that maybe I have some sort of power that it wants or it wants to stifle? Like, I've never really— I'm leaning more towards the fact that I have some sort of physical, uh, quantum realm battle going on energetically that I'm just like here for, and it plays out in a lot of different things. But what, what is that as far as you understand that?

Yeah, that's a great— so I studied under, um, a very, very renowned hypnotherapist who also was a dream interpretation expert as well. And I'm not an expert in that field by any means, but I've learned a lot from him about it. So So a couple of things I can say for sure according to his approach is that plenty of dreams are just mental masturbates. It's nothing. It's just figments of what you thought about before you went to sleep, right? But recurring dreams are a unique kind, and the length of time the recurring dream happens also unique. So follow-up questions I'd have would be, first of all, have you ever approached the— do you want to do this, like, yeah, this form is cool. Okay, have you ever approached the, um, the entity that you see in the dream and just like knelt down and let it kill you? I wouldn't say like let it, but as far as like submission, like just submit to be like, all right, fine, just take it then if it's so important to you, kind of thing.

Not consciously like that. I've been just like, one in particular, I'm strapped to a chair in the in this haunted house, and this chair kind of goes forward on this, like, a small roller coaster track, just cycling me through these corridors. And then it gets to a stop and there's darkness in front, and then this monster comes out, huge claws, tears me to shreds. And I get this point of view where I'm looking at myself in the chair just be killed. That happens like 6 times, and I've had that dream a couple times, so it's not like I've been consciously aware of submitting to it.

But yeah, because you were strapped in a chair, so there was no— so it's the will that was— that is— so, and I was just asking that, uh, I— that was an intuitive kind of thought that I had. Um, but okay, so the question is like, is there some type of perhaps past life connection, like your soul has some connection to this thing, and perhaps there's some type of long-waged battle? Or perhaps that is one of the spooks of the spiritual realm that's coming for you to just keep you you know, off your game, off your rhythm, and try and like mess with your head. Um, these are, these are two, two ideas. Also, is this an aspect of yourself? Um, so I would say like when, when it happened, do you remember what was going on in your life when it started happening? That would be significant to explore.

I think, yeah, from what I've thought about and understood is that if these kind of happen more frequently when I was not living my life like I am now, pursuing something that I'm, you know, so totally behind that gives me creative, positive, happy energy all the time because it's just, you know, amazing. And what I'm creating is really what I believe in. Whereas before, I was, you know, I was in an office job, I felt trapped and I wasn't living in alignment. So I think there's definitely a lot of that, but it's just happened in so many different ways and in so many different forms. Somewhere I'm just like slaying demons left and right. So it's—

yeah, and we do, we travel in our dreamtime. Our dreamscapes are very real. And you know, there's, there's actually a tradition called dream yoga, which is like a Buddhist technique. And they, when they go to sleep, they, they stay awake and they continue their work. So this is actually a great arcanum of lucid dreaming. It's not exactly lucid dreaming so much because like a lucid dream is a dream you control that you know you're having, but it's a dream. It's still a dream. This is not a dream technically. It's just during while you sleep. So this is a great secret of— okay, we'll say this now because this is in— technically this is in at least several books you can find and piece this together. So I'm not like revealing a secret or something that's unwritten per se. But here's the idea: when you develop the etheric double, when you develop your light body to sufficient pitch you're able to have your consciousness go from your physical body, which is where it is right now, into your light body. And your light body is not bound by your physical body. It can just go around, and you can see through its eyes and hear through its ears, and you can feel with its hands, etc. This is something that's definitely part of shamanic traditions and also modern Western esoteric traditions, but they don't really tell you that. So when you study the symbolism, for example, of of the tarot— of the, excuse me, of the Hebrew alphabet, and you study the 27 letters of the Hebrew alphabet, 5, you know, final letters and the 22 like normal letters. When you develop the light body to sufficient degree, what that facilitates for you is that when you go to sleep, you wake up in a different world and you have this other body to navigate this other world, which is boundless and endless. And it's in that world where the actual meditation work is done on the symbols. Because in that world, a tarot letter— excuse me, a Hebrew letter— becomes an entire dimension of existence, and you can enter into it. You can enter into the body of that letter and explore the domain of that world as it exists. And in that world, its nature and character will be ever-present in everything you experience in that world. And you take that and collect that experience and you bring it back and then you wake up and now you meditate on the Hebrew letter in your waking state. And that's how you build esoteric knowledge. That's how you build occult wisdom and understanding. So the prerequisite is that you master your dream time. That's like the very first level. Now the way that I do it, this is not even necessary. So I'm just saying this is one school of thought. This is one methodology in one school. There are other ways to pursue building relationship with God and all that based on a person's need. But it is done, it is taught, and it is practiced that you can achieve a level of consciousness through certain activities which are very specific. Different traditions have different techniques. They will all get you there if you pursue any of them diligently enough, where you— when you close your eyes, you begin another 12-hour day on the other side, 8-hour day on the other side, and you work and you do the work there. You build an altar, you have a home base, you You have entry points, you have ports of entry, you have an elevator shaft, it can be a Carnival World, it can be any type of thing. And the goal is to have complete and total mastery over your consciousness all 24 hours of the day so that you're always doing something. And if you do this unconsciously, our good intentions will drive us and we'll go do stuff and that's great. But the more you refine and the more you gain specificity with what you're doing and how you engage with things, you'll find more doors will open up. So if you study the tarot cards, you study the Hebrew letters, if you study the, the glyphs that symbolize the planets and the houses and the signs, etc., and you look at all this, then you enter your dream state and you go into the world that is the body of that symbol. And there the symbols become living. And this is also true with the Tree of Life. They call the Tree of Life a living glyph. Well, it's not living on a piece of paper, and it's not even living in our minds. In our minds, it begins to wake up, but it's alive in its own world where it exists in a corporal form, and that form is veiled by our, you know, our minds basically. And so you unlock this ability to do this, you pursue it this way, and this is where most people get entrapped. You know, it's easy to give up the material stuff. I don't care about my cars, I don't care about my clothes, I don't care about my money. Okay, yeah, most people can do that, that go down this road.

Road.

But when you get to that world and you're dealing with what I'm describing here, those shiny baubles are much harder to treat like money that you don't care about, cars that you don't care about, because that's what you've been doing all the work for. You're like, I gave that up to get that. Now I have this, I have to give that up too? For what? What's beyond that? Well, there is something beyond that. So this is the idea. So with dreams, I would say, you know, there's certain— there's certain things that I would suggest, like if we were— if having a— we were doing a session, we were talking, and I would say, okay, like, hey, here's some exercises to do to build something up. Here's a way to approach it. Here's a few different roads to go down. And then the feedback from that's going to determine what happens next. But it's probably reasonable to think it's part of your subconscious keeping you on the road, and it's also reasonable to think that you're here for a greater purpose and that there's forces that would like to see that stop.

Mm-hmm.

Both are reasonable. Yeah, neither one should be more powerful than you waking up and doing what you have to do, and it's not. So that's a great thing. But there is some like very technical stuff we could get into. Yeah, probably offline.

Yeah, another time. Yeah, that's crazy, man. The more I learn, it's the more I know that I don't know shit.

That's how you know you're on the— yeah, I feel the exact same way, man. People come to my library and they hang out with all these books and they're like, bro, you read all this? I'm like, well, I've read a lot of it, you know. Most of it probably over the years. And I go, but you have to understand, every time I read something new that answers one question, 30 more questions spring to my mind.

Hmm.

So I started with like one question: what is God? What is God? Like, what is that thing? And then from there, now, I mean, I've got to have billions of questions now that I'll never answer. I don't have time to answer because now my work is to bring forward what I've gained. Yeah, all these questions that used to drive me they became paperweights. I had to let those go too. You know, I used to think I was gonna get it all, or what, so to speak. And now that's like laughable. But yeah, the more you know, the more you know you don't know. And if you have that perspective, then you know you're on the right track. Beginner's mind is the master's mind. You just can't let a beginner's mind stop you from taking action and engaging with someone from a place of like, you know, I gained a certain amount of expertise, I'll speak from that expertise, I can be of service to another person in a powerful way, it's life-changing, transformational, etc. But that's a very delicate balance to keep the beginner's mind but also operate from that place with that level of power and potency. That's, that's another rhythm that you have to fine-tune as you go through the process. And once you, once you get acclimated to how God does these things and how you, how you self-initiate through the processes, it's a tightrope. I call it— I say it's a tightrope, but it's a mile wide, you know. It's like the tightest path. You have to stay so sharp on it, but once you're on it, you have all the leeway in the world to explore and learn and grow. And it's quite beautiful.

That's cool, man. Well, I think that's enough for people to digest.

Yeah, hopefully they find some useful perspectives in there.

Yeah, this is the highest level knowledge of this kind of world that I've ever experienced. So very grateful to have met you and discussed this kind of thing.

Likewise. It's beautiful to be here.

Thank you for listening at home. This has been Soulcast with Pat Moyse.

Pleasure, guys. Thank you so much.

Ciao.