EP 52 - EP 52 with Joel Kellett: Holistic Bodybuilding, Achieving an Elite Physique and Living As We Are Meant To

Hi, man.

It's so good to be talking to you. I've looked up to you as one of, you know, the premier bodybuilders who are doing it in what I believe to be the right way. You know, this this revival of holistic bodybuilding, which was prevalent in some of the golden era. Obviously not everyone back then, but, uh, really understanding the kind of building blocks of nutrition, natural living, and, you know, just the methodology and training systems behind it, where it's— it seems way less manufactured and it's less, um, it, it, it's just more enjoyable. And, and I think more pleasing to the eye in the physiques that it creates because it's not the hyper-manufactured, hyper-processed, you know, BCAA fucking bodybuilding competitions that we see on most of social media, at least today. So I just want to thank you for joining me here to talk, and you've been a massive inspiration for me in terms of your physique, and I know many thousands of people around the world.

Thanks, man. I actually really appreciate that and the kind words. Like, you can't see me, but, um, I was grinning ear to ear throughout that. Yeah, and, and yeah, it's, uh, it's very nice to hear. Like, it's, it's nice to be appreciated for something I think that's, you know, in my opinion, it's very simplistic. It's very sort of like a primitive approach, you know, as far as what it is guys are doing today to achieve like subpar physique. It's achieved, you know, it's true though. It's like, yeah, to achieve that, their, their idea of what they want, you know, they might point it out, or I might have a conversation with someone at the gym and ask what, what it is they want. I just want to put on a little bit of muscle. And it's within months that I'm having the, um, having a similar conversation with them, but now they've, they've bought every supplement under the sun, they've started taking steroids. That the, the things that they should have been focusing on, say, like training and diet, they've completely neglected.

Yeah, well, it's—

but going on, sorry, I was going to say, um, in their defense though, I think in everyone's defense, it's the, the industry is flooded, uh, with information, or I should say misinformation, and it's, it's very confusing. Like, I remember when I was young, thankfully when I started, like, the internet Even then, the internet wasn't a massive thing. There was like one gym in my area, and, uh, things were like very different. Like, you know, you still, you still bought, um, you know, fitness magazines to get your information from, and even those were full of shit. But you were less— you didn't— you weren't in tune with, uh, the opinions of every man and his dog, you know, at that time. So you sort of just went about it yourself, and you learned your body and discovered what worked best for you. Yeah, now it's, it's, I imagine it to be extremely confusing for a lot of people.

Yeah, so it's, it's really the result of the culture is what produces the type of people, uh, right? So the culture at the moment is, uh, get as big as possible as quickly as possible, and there's no real focus on, um, what it actually takes to get there. And the focus is on the steps of the equation that will lead people to buy things, um, because that's what's profitable, that's what people post content about, uh, so they can make a living, whatever it is, what it is. That's just the nature of these businesses. But yeah, the, the natural kind of first steps that will give you the most bang for your buck probably the entire way of your weightlifting journey are free for the most part, you know. Obviously you have to buy food and things like that, but the simple essential steps of lifting heavy, lifting hard, intensely, switching it up, different exercises, sleeping well, and eating whole foods, uh, that you make yourself, as high quality as possible— that's for the most part, you know, you have those building blocks in place, you're going to put on muscle, uh, right?

Those are the fundamentals, absolute fundamentals. It's mind-boggling to me that, uh, people would rather resort to— but it is like you said, you know, it's, it is marketing and it's obviously doing a good job, you know. They'd rather resort to supplements or steroids, you know, to— or, or, you know, gimmick-esque workouts to achieve— it's like, it's like, uh, you know, I was having a conversation with, with my mate Brock the other day in the gym and It's like people want to do as little as possible but feel like they're doing the most. Does that make sense? Like, yeah, yeah, you know, it's, it's all the gear and no idea type mentality. Like, they've bought all the supplements possible.

Yeah.

Um, they've watched some, you know, obscure— or listen to some guy like sort of, uh, promoting some obscure exercises, but the exercise itself isn't strenuous. It's, it's that kind of— it's like, you know, you don't— it's kind of like you don't need to put in hard work. Like, here's it, here's the, the shortcut, here's the easy way around that. And then the guys that are applying those principles don't seem to get that after years of doing that, they've made no progress.

Yeah, it's, it's, it is tricky. Like, I think It's always a learning process that you have to go through. And I'm sure even, you know, we have this internet culture right now, which is full of a lot of BS. But as you said, the muscle magazines, the stuff that was coming out of the fitness trainers that they could just print in the magazines, like that wasn't necessarily the fundamentals either. But I think just because there was maybe less amount of time that was enabled products to just be made, that there was just less BS out there. So you have, uh, obviously there are staple supplements that I believe are helpful, and there are some supplements, uh, which I think are the most helpful because they address a nutritional deficiency which you can get from food, but sometimes, uh, to get an extra boost, boost, especially things like magnesium, uh, that is just simply devoid of our soil quality at the moment due to our repetitive farming practices, yes, it makes sense to supplement those things. But the things that you buy that are like ExoShred 3000 and fucking test booster left and right, like, mm, maybe they have some limited amount, you know, if they have a very high potency or high quality herb within it. But at the same time, you're paying for a lot of filler shit you're paying for, you know, especially pre-workouts. I, I've had a lot of pre-workouts at the time in this, you know, this journey of trying everything. And it's fun to get a caffeine boost, like, yeah, you're going to have a better workout sometimes, especially if you are, you know, training and lifting in the morning or after work or whatever. But once you understand that, you know, I haven't taken a pre-workout powder like a packaged one in, in years now, and I'm sure you're the same. So there's, there are supplements and compounds that when you get their isolated high-quality form that you, you know, mix yourself and you apply to the right circumstances or address specific nutritional imbalances or lacks that you have in your diet, yes, that's, that's, that's, that's good. But you cannot use supplements or these, you know, primarily marketed towards bodybuilders for the most part things if you're not sleeping correctly. And that's, you know, you can't cover up these basic fundamentals with these external supplements.

Yeah, I tend to agree, uh, with what you said about those specific sort of, um, singular or like single ingredient supplements, say like magnesium, or, um, what's another good one? I don't know, even like, uh What am I thinking of? Um, I'm having a mental blank. Uh, like creatine or something like that, right? Yep, yep. Um, I tend to agree, like, you know, the— and, and, and that's the one thing, like, lately it's probably the most common question I still get in my DMs is, you know, what supplements do I take? More often than not, I just say none, you know, because that's the truth. But, you know, um, probably in the last few months I have started taking creatine, but I did, like, have to shop around and find something I thought was particularly trustworthy. And I think The biggest issue with the supplement industry, I mean, especially in America, is like, uh, the majority of it— not that I don't even think FDA approval means much, you know, but it doesn't have to be FDA approved. You can, you can put things on the shelves and sell it. And, and what's on the label, I mean, you can obviously, you can legally, and just in general, you can get a lot of trouble for it, but you can put something on the shelf and the label doesn't have to reflect what's inside.

Yeah.

So you can't— like, there, there are instances where you can be buying anything. And I think the worst, um, it's really, it's really protein powder, in my opinion. It's got to be the worst supplement. It shocks me that, it shocks me that, you know, how much protein powder a lot of people I know personally consume, even after I've had these conversations with them about it. They say, what, what protein do you get? I don't like— yeah, yeah. That's the last thing I think you need, you know, when you're talking about these, um, these singular ingredient, um, or like nutrient deficiencies, the singular ingredients supplements, um, that I agree with. But when it comes to, you know, protein powder taken, you know, 2-3 times a day, that's a— I think a big part or a big factor in that equation of why, you know, people aren't gaining muscle. It's kind of like, like I've said, I'll just give you an example of a conversation I had with someone in the gym when they asked me what protein powder I was taking. I said, I don't take protein powder. Well, how do you get in, you know, the amount of protein you need per day? And then I sort of just laid it out briefly, like, you know, the meals I was eating. I said, it's more like what I'm eating is more than enough. And I said, you know, if you— I think everyone should be concerned with the protein that they're taking in from supplements. So I said, just switch to like whole eggs or egg whites in your shake unless you've got an allergy. Yeah. And so, um, you know, this guy didn't take that advice at all, and he's, and he's having, you know, like say 2 protein shakes a day.

Yeah.

I said, what, you know, in your mind, he's like, yeah, but it's just an easy way to get protein in. It's 30, 30, 40 grams. I said, no, no, you think it's 30, 40 grams. Yeah. You've got no idea it's 30, 40 grams.

Yeah.

No idea. It could be flavored talcum powder for you. Yeah, you know, but people just put too much trust in that. And, and it's— I could be wrong, but I have never, in, in all the, the videos I've tried finding on how protein powder is made by specific, um, companies, like, I can't find anything, you know. And so that's— that protein powder is probably my biggest concern for consumers. You know, I would say with, you know, the utmost confidence, uh, that they're probably not getting what they think they're getting. And if even if there is that amount of protein in it, I can't imagine it being nearly— I can't imagine it being absorbed nearly as well as something like eggs, you know, or egg whites.

100%. And it comes with a lot, a lot, a lot of asterisks almost, you know. Yes, there are probably some protein powders which are, if they are just essentially dried milk powder, then you add to water. Yeah, you're going to get some protein from that. But on the other side, you just find a high-quality raw milk, that's going to be infinitely better because it's in its unprocessed form. It has a lot of other vitamins and minerals within it and enzymes and all the rest of it, rather than adding this highly processed, um, extracted form of powder that's been sitting on a shelf, maybe in a warehouse for months as well. So you don't know whether it's degraded or not. They've added preservatives so that it doesn't go off. They've added artificial flavorings and colorings so that it's like, oh yeah, it's fucking chocolate fruity boost tropical flavor. Like, what? Okay, what are you actually eating there? Yeah. So protein powder is one, it's a waste of money. Like just to like go, as you said, buy more eggs, buy a few more steaks. Like you don't necessarily need, um, 30 grams, like a scoop, 3 times a day. You think you're getting 100 grams of protein, you're not. Like, whether or not, like, one, you're absorbing this, this fake artificial powder, um, it doesn't have all the coenzymes and everything that's found in natural food to help you digest it and absorb it. And even, even real foods, a lot of people aren't absorbing that because they're not chewing enough. And this is like, digestion starts in the mouth, right? If you aren't chewing your food until it's primarily a liquid and allowing the saliva to mix throughout it, then you are swallowing, maybe it's like, and I've done this in the past, you know, like chewing steak. You have this big chunk of steak, you're not chewing it properly, and then you swallow it. You think that everything going into your stomach is being 100% absorbed. That's not how it works. If it's not been chewed properly, your saliva hasn't been mixed, then it's not gonna absorb at all. And the same goes with protein shakes. Let's assume that 100% of the protein you're putting into these shakes is being absorbed. If you're just chugging that down, you're not mixing saliva throughout, then it's not gonna be absorbed either. So that's like another thing that I say to people is like, you really need to be intentional with your eating. Sit down, don't watch anything at the same time, and literally think about what you're doing, thinking about what you're eating, and mix the saliva throughout. Like, there's some Qi Gong masters who believe that even with water, you should be moving your jaw up and down with each sip of water in order to mix saliva and mix the Qi energy within it, and then drink it. Because, you know, slamming a liter of ice-cold water straight up is quite shocking to the system, because if you think about it, in the, you know, caveman era, we wouldn't have found a water fountain with ice-cold water in a water bottle where we pound the whole thing straight up. It'd be like a river. We have a few sips, we have to sit down, and like, we can't just funnel the whole thing into our body. So this, this, this side of holistic living where your body— when is the most muscle built in your body? It's when your body has the most nutrition available to it, the most energy, and the least stress. And that comes from living in a holistic way that you can't really force if you're like just, you know, blank mind pounding these huge shakes, even smashing down food 4 or 5 times a day. You're not chewing properly. It's full of fake stuff. So if you actually want to put the most muscle on, then you have to look at the body as a system and how do you live in your healthiest way, uh, to make your body function and have the most energy available to put on the muscle. And that comes from being intentional about your eating, um, sleeping properly, uh, and, you know, training in the way and recovering in the right ways. Yeah.

100%. And I tend to agree with that too, especially about chewing. I mean, you look at the, the change in bioavailability in food, um, depending on, uh, like mastication alone, you know, whether you're chewing your food enough or not, um, like how you're, how you're preparing the food, how you're cooking your food. Yeah, that's why I've always, if I do have raw whole eggs. I blend them with fruit. Um, and yeah, I do tend to drink that very slowly.

Yeah.

And I think what you were saying too all falls under this umbrella of stress, um, stress on the, on the body, you know, physically, uh, physiologically, psychologically, emotionally. It's this sort of go-go mentality, smash everything down.

Yeah.

Uh, it's It's a high, it's a high stress environment, almost 24/7 on your body. And yeah, I think that's why there's a significant difference too in the, the, the, uh, how should I say, just the look of the physiques from say the '50s, '60s, and '70s compared to today. It looks, it's almost like the, the top bodybuilder, top pro bodybuilders, to me is kind of like, um a visual representation of stress, you know, stress while trying to pursue, uh, a really arduous, uh, goal, you know. That's, that's how it looks to me. And like, they've achieved it, say the muscularity, but it's like something looks off. Yeah, you know. And the culmination of all these things— supplementation, steroids, um, like you said, like lack of mastication probably horrible digestion because of all these things. And, and all those things fall under stress, and like stress on the body, and, and the cortisol that must be running through there. Yeah, their bodies must have a physiological and, and physical effect on the, on the body and physique and create a look that regardless of sort of how hard you, you try, you know, even guys that do take very minimal steroids, say, and minimal supplements and, and all the rest of it there's still something off about their physiques as someone competing in like, say, Classic Physique than the guys from the '50s, '60s, '70s.

Yeah, the, the cortisol one is, is huge. And a lot of people will, you know, the, the mentality is if they're— the harder they train, uh, the better they'll look. And on some levels that's true in terms of the intensity that you need to bring when you're working out is going to deliver a high level of muscularity and lower body fat if your training sessions, you're actually giving 110% every time. But if that's not coupled with appropriate recovery and appropriate lack of stress the rest of the time, like the Golden Age bodybuilders, they were absolutely smashing it in the gym. You know, you've seen training documentary footage of these guys, but What were they doing outside of the gym? The rest of the time they were chilling on the beach. They were laying outside in the sun. You know, they were eating steaks, you know, 2 or 3 times a day. And generally it was just a very laid-back lifestyle. Obviously, that's, that's their living. They had the time to do that. And a lot of people don't if they're working full-time. But you have to consider if you are going into the gym, you you're having your Bang pre-workout drink. I won't get me started on those. But you are, you know, you're having some pre-workout, even if it's coffee, black coffee is another mistake that a lot of people make that, you know, spikes cortisol a lot. You're training intensely, your breathing is off, that's another huge one. You know, the breath is the center of life. If you're breathing through the mouth, because you just, you know, you've never had that knowledge in terms of how breathing is meant to happen. You know, for everyone listening, try and breathe through your nose only all the time. That's even when it's like, yes, after a massive set of squats, you're probably going to be panting a little bit. But as much as possible through your training, only breathe through the nose because the mouth is for eating and the nose is for breathing. it's going to mitigate a lot of the cortisol response because— and I mentioned this before— if you are, you know, physiologically, if you're a caveman running away from a saber-toothed tiger, you just want to get out of there as quickly as possible. You're going to get more air in through the mouth, which is going to enable you to kind of in the short term move quicker and get more oxygen and, you know, breathe a bit heavier. But your body naturally is is not going to want to exist in that state. Like, short burst, sure, but for the most part, if you're breathing through your mouth like all day— even I've trained people where they are, you know, they're trading at their computer, uh, on the stock market, and they're, they're not cognizant of their breathing. So they will have like breathed through their mouth when they're trading. By the end of an hour and a half of kind of watching these charts and mouth breathing, their cortisol is through the roof as well. And this one guy said, okay, tape your mouth while you're trading. So that gives just like, you can't breathe through your mouth while your mouth is taped. It's as simple as that. I recommend it for sleep as well. But he found that his decision making during trading while breathing through the nose was infinitely better because he doesn't have that cortisol stress response that is going to spike his heart rate and kind of put you in this sympathetic nervous state, which is reaction, it's survival. And for the most part, you can't think as straight while you're doing that. So breathing is one thing that, you know, if that's a chronic state of mouth breathing in most of your waking hours, then you're not going to be able to get out of that hyper-stimulated nervous system, which you might from the, from the time you wake up and slam your coffee to the end of the day, really, if you're mouth breathing the whole time, you've never really existed in a state where you're just chill. So you're not going to be able to optimally digest, for the one thing. Another kind of breathing technique that I recommend people have is— it goes back to intentional eating— before every time you eat, before you put anything in your mouth, just sit down and do 10 really deep, long breaths in through the nose, out through the nose, and just kind of settle into a state where your body is relaxed and your body is not in a fight or flight state. Because if you are in that, you know, hyper-aroused state, your body thinks you're ready for battle. It's not going to— it's going to be pushing blood externally. It's not going to be putting blood to the digestive system, uh, because, you know, it's not really important if you're in a a fight-or-flight scenario to be digesting food. You want blood in the muscles ready to go. And that's where the kind of, you know, butterfly situation happens, is because your body is, is just ready to go and it's, it's not really dedicating its time to these recovery practices. So breathing is another one that's kind of fundamental that, you know, you don't really hear anyone talking about that in the bodybuilding space, but it is absolutely paramount. And I'm wondering if you, you know, have really kind of looked into that, or whether you just naturally have, have nasal breathed in your training as well.

It's funny you say that, actually. Um, I know very little— I would say I know nothing on the subject of breathing, you know, nasal breathing, or yeah, what's, you know, what, what passage, so to speak, is optimal for breathing. But it's funny you say that because I can't help but sort of like Um, I say this with some, you know, some sort of sarcasm, but I can't help but sort of look down on mouth breathers.

Yeah, exactly.

Something about it really turns me off. So I've always consciously breathed through my nose as, as much as possible. And if I catch myself breathing through my mouth, I quickly shut it and focus on breathing my nose.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, so, so it's also interesting that, that is the case, that yes, I, I do breathe through my nose even while training. Like, it's, it's not very often. I mean, I make very little noise in the gym, so it's not like you're ever going to catch me having to release some, you know, strenuous grunt or anything. I don't lift very heavy, so it's, it's not like I ever feel like I need to be breathing through my mouth. Maybe sometimes cardio, but that's a bit of, you know, a bit blocked up in the head, but Yeah, yeah, it's not very often at all.

So that's, that's interesting. So you— have you ever lifted heavy, or is when you're saying lifting heavy, you're, you're still lifting strenuously but not in those lower rep ranges, right?

Yeah, my, my, um, my— what's the word— my philosophy, I suppose, when it comes to weight training is, is trying to get the most out of the least amount of weight.

Frank Zane, right?

Yeah, well, I think Frank Zane said— I'm probably quoting him, quoting Frank Zane when I say this— um, the muscle doesn't know numbers. Yeah, so, so maybe he did say that, get the most out of least. I don't know.

I thought he, he quoted, um, he had a saying, you want to make, um, the lightest weight feel as heavy as possible through your training. Ah, okay.

Yeah, my quote's much much cooler. So it's, um, so again, for all those listening, it's, uh, getting the most out of the least amount of weight. So there you go. Um, Frank Zane, eat your heart out.

Yeah. So how do you do that?

It's, you know, like, it's, it's easy to— it's easy to, to apply to someone you might be watching training. So if you see someone say squatting or doing a bench press, whatever it might be, there's so many things. There's stones left unturned there. There's more they could do to, um, you know, maximize intensity with less weight.

But yeah, people are—

and I get it, like a part of me gets it. I, I never did it. I never like thought, oh, I want to try and lift more on this level. Like I was just never like that. I never came into the gym like, yeah, you know, the bunch of mates trying to lift heavy and stuff. That just seems to be very common practice now, but yeah, it's, it's easy to spot, but it's, it's, um, probably something I'll make a YouTube video on or something, you know, about, um, you know, it's just sort of a tips and tricks things on how to do that, like, and use different exercises as examples. But I mean, a squat is, is a very good example of how I would say the majority of people, at least the majority of people I see, could be getting so much more out of less weight.

Yeah.

And totally preventing injury, which is again common practice. Most guys I've talked to that do squat really heavy, um, well, it's not that they're like— look, it's not that— I don't want to say squatting really heavy, it's just, um, they're squatting too much for, you know, what they're truly capable of. You know, they're not capable of squatting the amount they think that they're capable of. And yeah, it's easy spot because they're only going— they're not even— their, their, um, thighs aren't even, you know, parallel to the ground. Yeah, it's very— it's almost like half the time what I'm— what, what it looks like I'm watching is like a good morning, you know, like a—

yeah, yeah, good morning.

Yeah, with the bar on back and you're bending forward and coming back up. Yeah, it almost looks like that. It looks incredibly painful.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, and there's very little, you know, uh, leg engagement at all. You know, it's supposed to be You know, you watch, you watch Tom Platt's squat and you know that he can push the weight he's, he's lifting. And it is very heavy, it's very heavy to a lot of people, but he's— and he's doing it at a high rep range. So, and I mean, his thighs speak for themselves. Yeah, you're looking at someone that's put themselves through it. They've done, you know, whether it be 20 kilos aside or 45 pounds aside if you're listening from America or anywhere else. You know, it's, um, you start there and you work your way up. But if you— if it's, if it's for you just about, um, you know, wanting to lift heavy and heavy and heavy, just ask yourself why and what is the goal. Like, if the goal is just— which is 99% of it— I just want to look a bit better, then you don't need to be doing that. Like, there's no reason. Like, and like, I know this sounds a bit, um you know, I don't know, conceited or whatever it might be. But it's not like you're going to go to the beach or you're not going to go anywhere where you can showcase your physique, um, look terrible and yell at, yeah, but I can, I can bench, you know, pounds. Like, no one gives a shit at the end of the day because there's always someone stronger than you.

Yeah.

And yes, there's always someone with a better physique than you. But if your goal is just to look a bit better, definitely consider, you know, dropping the weight, going It's full range of motion is really what I'm talking about. All the way down on a squat. Like, take— if you're doing bench press, take the bar to your chest. The only time you see, um, pec tears is because guys have become, become so accustomed to only moving the bar through, like, you know, this partial rep movement, and they don't come all the way down to the chest. So then when they go a little bit heavier and go, yeah, I want to try and push for a little bit more, and they accidentally take the bar through a slightly deeper range of motion, the muscle is not used to that. It's never— yeah, it's never been put under that stress at that, um, sort of level of extension, and it'll just snap. That's it, you know, it's game over. Yeah, so full range of motion obviously is like priority, um, and, and, uh, what was the other thing I was going to mention? It might come back to me, but, um, yeah, lessening the weight, like, I would still say the majority of people need to, need to do that if they want to maximize muscle growth.

Yeah, so it's again, what are your goals? There are some people that are doing powerlifting competitions, and I don't at all want to denigrate, um, you know, the capacity for people to become good at moving the bar in this certain path that will give them the highest number that they can. Uh, that's, that's the goal of some people, right? That's, that's a sport, uh, to some, to some degree. But as you're saying, for most of us, myself included, uh, I more so— my goal was to, uh, primarily craft and sculpt my physique and use my physique as an expression of art in a way, and kind of slowly build up proportions and obviously be healthy and, you know, strong and kind of prepared for the rest of my life in terms of like the quality of life I want to live. Like, you want to be strong, your bones want to be strong and live into old age. That was primarily my goals with the gym and still is. But you don't need to be pushing yourself to the nth degree with these 2 rep maxes, 3 rep maxes, because you— one, it's primarily egoic. Like, you can lift in a way where, yeah, it doesn't look as cool, but you can curl 20 pounds, you know, 10 kilos, uh, with the biceps where you are— you're not moving any part of the body apart from the bicep. And yes, you're bracing the arm and, you know, your core is engaging, but it— you can curl 10 pounds. And I'm sure you do the same with your arms where like What do you want to do? You want to stress the muscle. You want the bicep to be under the maximal load as possible. If you're using heavier and heavier weights, you're at some level, you have to compensate to the degree because you, if you've never done the 10-pound curls and then you kind of move to 25, yeah, I'm lifting these bigger weights, but you've never gone through the range of motion and really actually strengthen the bicep itself primarily, then you're going to bring in the delts, you're going to bring in the rear delts and like kind of swing a little bit. Like, okay, so what's, what's the aim of the exercise? It's a bicep curl and you're strengthening other areas of the body. And then it's like, oh, my arms aren't growing. It's like, yeah, because you are not lifting in a way where you are stressing the muscle that you want to stress. You're not actually doing the exercise. And I think that that's where, you know, I have gone through it. Um, when I, I cringe, uh, thinking back on kind of how I used to train as a, as a teenager because loading 3 plates on the bar when I had no business even squatting 1 plate, you know, properly. And like you said, it's almost like a good morning. It's like, yeah, okay, cool, you, you go down a few inches and then back up. But you know, what's the goal here? The goal is to put on muscle. Then you need to focus on time under tension. And it doesn't look as cool, but across a period of, you know, you've been training you know, close to 2 decades, I would say, right?

No, I've only been training about 12 years.

12 years, cool. So it's a long period, right? So you've been in the game— it's always a long period.

Yeah, that's consistent, you know, consistent hard training, which is the main thing.

And consistency is the main thing. Uh, so when you are pushing yourself to these very, very high heavy reps, you are increasing the likelihood of injury And if injury keeps you out of the game for 3 months, yeah, that's 3 months that you— if you had just lowered the weight and trained in a, in a better way, then that's 3 months of progress and consistency that you're now going without. So I really don't recommend people, uh, push themselves to that high level unless you are, you know, powerlifting or whatever. And even then I would say, okay, do we want to you know, is this going to be a career kind of thing, or are we just kind of egoically lifting and risking the harm to our body to do so?

Yeah, that's right. And, uh, I, I really— I know we've said it now like 100 times, but for anyone listening, I want to stress it, you know, what is your goal? And, and that's why I brought this up, because the majority of people I talk to in the gym the majority of people I know, uh, their goal is to just look a little bit better. But I still see them come in and they just can't help themselves. They want to do a 1 rep max on the, on the bench press. And they ask— these are young guys too, you know— and they ask me, oh, what's your 1 rep max on bench? I have no idea. I don't, I don't care. Like, and this is— I'm, I'm taking another quote from someone. I don't know who said this, but, um, I read it at some point and I liked it. It's, uh, it said You know, I'm a bodybuilder, not a weightlifter. I'm not, I'm not fixated on the weight I'm lifting. I have an end goal in mind. I want to look like this by this time, say, and what do I need to do to get there? So that's probably what's going through a lot of guys' minds. Like, they're just— a lot of guys come into the gym, they just lift weight, and they don't have an end goal in mind. That's probably the, the, um, the, you know, general consensus of gym goers. It's like they're not thinking that far ahead maybe, but that's why I really want to stress it, you know. What is your goal? And then like you said, is it worth, you know, whether you be in front of your friends, whether you, you find it, you know, genuinely enjoyable to lift heavy, whatever the reason is, it is still worth considering what the goal is and then asking yourself like, is it worth potentially hurting myself for one rep when it has— when it doesn't align whatsoever with my goal, you know, is it worth that? And, and for me it never was. So it was like, all right, I don't care how I look, I don't care if I'm lifting, you know, the smallest weights on the rack, I don't care if I'm only putting it— I put a 20-kilo plate aside on, on squats. And, and, um, you know, not to sound conceited, but I think I've got a lot more out of that than I— than the guys that have been putting 4 plates aside on, you know. It's almost like you can't fathom that that's what I've been doing. They're like, no, like, what else do you do though? Yeah, like, dude, that's it. It's just that I'm getting way more out of it. Like, yeah, it's, um, it's so hard to get that through to people. So that's why I said, you know, to— for everyone listening, stress that before every session, what the goal is. And that's— yeah, like you said, if it's— if you want to get into weightlifting professionally, if you want to become a powerlifter or a weightlifter, by all means go ahead. You know, you know the risks you're running. Yeah, um, but I'm— I wouldn't, you know, tell anyone not to do that. But for the guys that just want to improve their physiques, quit the 1 rep, 2 rep, 3 rep maxes. Quit fixating on, you know, what weight you're lifting and how you're going to look in front of your friends or everyone else at the gym. You know, focus on the task at hand, focus on the goal, and that you're going to achieve the physique you want if you're patient and persistent. And it's like you said before, consistency, you know, being consistent. And the last— I've never had an injury in the gym, ever. No injury ever in the gym. Never. Nothing. Not a niggle, nothing. The only time I got a little niggle is like playing tennis, you know. It was never—

yeah, that's great.

Yeah, it's, it's totally worth avoiding. Don't, don't run the risk just to— I don't know, what do you want to do with that? What do you want to do with like, oh, I lifted this one? Who gives a shit, man? Like, just focus on the goal.

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think you got to take ego out of it. Um, the one thing that comes to mind is like the, the stress factor and, you know, training in that way as well. You're gonna be in a higher cortisol response all the time. And like, you look at an animal in a zoo, they're in a high stress environment relatively, they don't have much space, they're gonna start losing their hair, they're not gonna look like a beacon of vitality, they're not gonna look like the wild tiger, you know? And it's a similar kind of thing when you are lifting in this way and living in this way that is antithetical to how our bodies are meant to kind of be. And this is where the side of like, How do I get more vascular? Uh, how much time are you spending outside in the sun? Um, oh well, you know, I'm training in the gym which is under fake artificial light, and then I go to my office, it's under fake artificial light, and I'm actually not getting outside at all. And so if you are actually dedicated to building muscle, that's— you say you want a better physique, then you need to treat, um, outside of the gym almost like— yes, the gym is the, uh, the intense stimulus needed to, to have the muscle, um, do what it does and repair and grow. But there's so much outside of the gym holistically that you need to take care of. And I know you're a big proponent of sun exposure as well, um, because that's gonna massively increase the blood flow, vascularity, your sleep quality, your recovery, uh, your testosterone in general, your hormone balance, uh, lack of cortisol, uh, and all the rest of it. So What, what are you doing outside of the gym to fully kind of support what you do inside the gym?

Uh, definitely sun exposure is a massive one for me. I love, I love the sun. I love talking about the sun. I love like projecting all my opinions of the sun on other people.

Me too.

Yeah, I just love it, man. Like there's something about— and I just like, like back to, you know living in this current climate of being fearful of everything, you know, and everything's causing cancer and whatever it might be. And I know this is purely anecdotal, but I just find it hilarious. And like, not in— I'll say this, you'll be like, how is that funny? But, um, it's, it's funny to the bit to me that, say, uh, like, take my parents for example. My, my dad was, you know, um, or like, was, uh, you know, um, how would you say, you know, not scared of the sun, but he stayed protected, didn't never— didn't really go outdoors that much, was a bit of like a sort of rock head, just wanted to stay, stay in. And, um, you know, probably a bit of a night owl, that type of thing. Yeah, a bit of a Boys type of guy. Whereas my mom like baked herself in the sun absolutely every single day, um, and has really like beautiful skin. She's in— she's in her like late 60s, has very Even now, beautiful skin, doesn't wear makeup, or she does very little.

Yeah.

Um, my dad developed— like I said, it's purely anecdotal, but it's just, uh, my dad developed skin cancer and my mom didn't. And then, yeah, you know, he said, oh, well, that's just, you know, this and that. But it's like, people don't get that it's not necessarily— or it's not even that it is the sun causing skin cancer. People think it's just the sun. All right, the sun, that's the only thing that can give the skin cancer. Like think about the shit you put on your body every day, including the sunscreen. Yeah, that to me, like, it blows my mind that people— yeah, but the science, dude, they're selling you zero science. Yeah, like, what, what is the science? And this stuff— and then if I— it's funny that I've shared, um, particular videos, like, and it's a— it's whatever, a scientist talking about the topic saying, no, you know, uh, in a nutshell, sunscreen is bad, sun is good. And they totally deny it. They're like, yeah, that's one guy. Yeah, I'm like, it's the, the, um, sun. It's funny that especially here in Australia, the, the sun or the skin cancer industry is like a multi-million billion dollar industry. It's like they're making— they're profiting massively off this. If they— if anyone genuinely gave a shit, you'd be able to— you'd be able to get all this, uh, stuff that apparently we need because skin cancer is such a problematic thing in Australia, you'd be able to get it for free, but that's not the case. Yeah, and, uh, you know, it's not government-funded. And so, so, um, back to, you know, sun exposure, um, without, you know, getting into the science of it, it is, um, it, it's, it's not just, you know, crucial in, in, um, being able to live as— what's the word— live as, um, you know, healthy as possible. But it's— yeah, it's very important when it comes to bodybuilding because it does have impact on, on your physique, on, on you physiologically, um, you know, and your, your— and healthy hormone production. And also the, the physical aspect of it, like looking healthy, you know, that contributes to good, you know, good, good-looking skin and hair. And, uh, again, it's, it's— people would rather believe in a product being able to provide them that particular look that they're after. Like, oh, my skin's bad, I'm gonna take— I'm, I'm taking this product, I'm taking this new product. Yeah. Have you tried sitting in the sun for 5 to 10 minutes a day? No, no, get skin cancer. All right, dude. Yes, put that concoction of chemicals on your face, that should fix it.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's several things for that, right? So it's one, they're spraying aluminum deodorant, uh, aluminum being one of the highest risk factors for things like Alzheimer's and cancer. They're spraying that underneath their skin, that they're using these lotions which are highly processed and highly chemical. They're using a body soap and like a bright blue, you know, fucking Lynx body wash, which smells like God knows what all over their body every single day, twice a day. Gotta get clean, gotta wash all that stuff off. And your skin's just kind of like, oh my God, what is this chemical bath you're putting me through every day? And then you strip your skin of your natural protective oils. And then if you ever go outside, it's boom, layers of sunscreen, which literally You know, most of the big brands have to recall because they're now finding like literal carcinogenic chemicals in them. You know, like there's several factors with that. And I hammer on about it because it's so important. And like the default consciousness right now is like sunscreen good, sun's bad. Sunscreen is going to protect me from skin cancer. Sunscreen is literally causing skin cancer. So is the blue light exposure that you're exposing your skin to most of the day. Um, the only science in, in air quotes and studies that have been done to show that the sun is bad for you have been on rats, first of all, um, and in isolated UV light. They stick rats who are in a laboratory under these fake blue lights most of the time, then they expose them to isolated UV light lamps and then don't take them out. Like, these rats aren't free range going outside in the sun, and then these rats are getting skin cancer because they are not outside and they're in these isolated, you know, man-made wavelengths of UV light. And they go, oh yes, therefore the sun causes skin cancer. No, the one that you just have to look at the actual studies that they're doing, um, to, to see that that's BS. And then there's the financial side of it. It's like, yes, sunscreen is a bigger business than even, um, you know, the cancer industry. The cancer industry wants to propagate cancer because they can then sell cancer treatments, right? All of these, um, quote-unquote cancer charities where people are donating money and raising money, you're raising money for a pharmaceutical company to find new profitable treatments. If they actually wanted to heal cancer, they wouldn't have any customers. And at a base level That just means that that industry and whether or not there's like, I don't think that there's at the top some, some dudes, I want to give skin cancer to everyone, but it's just the nature of the pharmaceutical system wants to maximize profits. How do you do that? You, you know, you kind of, you fund things that are going to have people feel inclined to do things that give them more skin cancer or other types of cancer. That's just the way that it is. And that's a terrible realization to make. And people feel kind of hoodwinked, which they have been, you know, for the most part. There's also like just the intuitive, like, okay, so the thing that gives everything in this life, everything on this planet life, that thing, if we are exposed to it, kills us. 100% of the time get skin cancer? No, it doesn't make any sense. Anecdotally, the guy that I know that died of a horrific melanoma on his face was the guy that was slathering his face in sunscreen every single time he went outside that I saw him, you know, playing sports. So how does that happen? I mean, that's, that's because he was covering his face every single day that he went outside with these chemicals and he was never able to You know, a lack of vitamin D is one of the highest risk factors for cancers on the whole, you know. So there's a lot of things like you're going outside, you're never exposing yourself to sun. When you do, you're putting sunscreen on. So you're, you're getting rid of vitamin D. Then you immediately go and shower in this toxic chemical slop, which actually washes whatever little amount of vitamin D your skin was able to produce because it sits on the skin for 48 hours before it's absorbed. You're washing that off as well. So it's really this, this insidious epidemic where we are not like we're, we're moving away from what we naturally holistically, you know, every other animal on the planet, you'll see dogs and cats literally follow sunlight around the house. They'll, they'll sit and bask in the sun. Like, so why are they doing that? Why are they intuitively like their instincts tell them to do that. Like, you think dogs and cats are talking to each other like, whoa, what do you think about the studies of sun exposure? Like, no, they have— like, why does it feel good to sit in the sun? Why do you feel amazing? Why does your blood kind of get moving? And why do you just intuitively look better when you're tan? Like, why are bodybuilders putting this fake tan on themselves for bodybuilding shows? Because it enhances the muscle and they look better. So at an aesthetic level, yeah, tan looks better, let's do sun exposure. But there are so many different things that kind of contribute to holistic health again, which is the basis of muscle building in general. It's like you can't be the most optimal level of your physique if you are living this crisis of modernity where you're always inside and you're eating fake foods and artificial flavorings and sweeteners. So I think like part of the reason I do what I do and share the things that I do and you talk about the things that you do, I think is is because yes, there's the bodybuilding side of it, but health in general is just under attack from so many different directions. And if we can, through bodybuilding, say, you know, you want to look your best, cool. But yeah, that, that it's not just looking good. And when, when you are healthy as an organism, you naturally look better.

I totally agree. Yeah. And, and back to Quickly, actually, I want to say, I want to stress, uh, back to sun exposure. Um, it's not to say go outside and, and roast yourself every day.

I do say that. Don't burn yourself. Don't burn yourself, but do roast yourself, right?

Yeah, there's a difference.

Yes.

Um, yeah, I, I, I say don't, don't burn yourself. And if you, if you're someone that hasn't been exposed to the sun, you know, for the majority of your life, go outside just for 5-10 minutes. Yeah, um, maybe, you know, face the sun in one direction and turn around and expose your back to the sun, 5 to 10 minutes each side, and that's it. Go inside, see how you look the following day. If you're not burnt whatsoever, do the same thing, add a few more minutes. Like, this is what I had to do. I was incredibly pale. Yeah, I started exposing myself to the sun um, sounds sexual, it kind of was, um, at about— I think I was like 19, 20 or something, you know. It was about 10, uh, 31 now, like 11 years ago that I started really tanning religiously. And before then, yeah, very, very pale. And my mom would say stuff like, you know, I was transparent, she could see my veins and things, and never ever thought I would tan. But it was constant It was like the sun tanning was like the training and like the diet and the, and the sleeping, you know, the, um, it went hand in hand. So I tanned every day, but I started just with— and I didn't even— I didn't believe it. I just read at some point that you can change your, you know, your pigmentation permanently with enough consistent days of sun, like consecutive days of sun. And this was back like when we had droughts here in Australia, so there was consistent consecutive days of sun. And I laid in the sun every single day for like, I reckon it could have been 20 or something days. And then, you know, we had rainfall for a couple of weeks, and, and my tan didn't really fade in that time. And then I just got back to it, and I did it over the course of years to the point where now I can go, you know, say a month or so, or even longer, maybe the entire winter without really, like, without the same sort of high-quality sun exposure as I would get in summer. But I don't lose my tan. I still remain pretty tanned throughout winter. And that's part of the reason, is that I do believe genuinely that I've, that I've changed my pigmentation permanently because of that sun exposure. And so what that means now is I can go to the beach for a couple of hours. I'm not using sunscreen, I'm not, not sheltering my myself with shade and I don't get burnt. You know, I've increased the amount of melanin within my skin and changed the pigmentation, and that's the benefit of that gradual tanning.

Yeah.

Um, and what sunscreen does, like, and I'm sure you know, is people think it's like, yeah, but I'm not— I can go out all day and I'm not getting burnt. That's great, but you're not preventing, um, that specific type of sun ray from, you know, giving you cancer. It's just preventing the burn, and the burn is essential. It's the body's way of saying, yes, get out of here, too much time in the sun in the one— at the one time. Yeah, so don't do that again. You know, when you're preventing that, it's like, um, what would the equivalent be? It's like, I don't know, it's—

if you take— it's like if you take painkillers to get over some sort of pain, you know, consecutively, it's like the pain is a messenger. There's something wrong with the body, and if you cover that up with a Band-Aid, it's It's pretty much the, the issue with medical treatment today is the treating of symptoms and allowing— not allowing your body to tell you, hey brother, uh, something's wrong.

Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. That's a, that's a good analogy. Thank you. Uh, and that's, that's what people, you know, either like they don't, they don't understand or they don't want to believe it. And I've had this, like, I have a daughter and I've had this argument with my daughter's mother like 100 times about, you know, I said, can you please not put like lather in sunscreen every— like, just to walk to the park and back? Like, you know, you're not going long.

Yeah.

And that would be, that would be like some debate of contention. I'm like, how is this? And I'd send the documentation, like, I'd have to provide the science for it, you know. And I'm not, I'm not gonna— I'm really not trying to, um, bag anyone out here. It's just that we have been fed this idea that it's you know, protection against everything. And then when you finally do get that one thing, we got the drug for you. And not only that, it's on a subscription basis, so you're going to be paying for it the rest of your life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's insidious. And once you see it in one thing, you see it in everything.

Um, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I see it in everything.

It's that, that would annoy me if, if I had a kid and, and that was you know, scenarios happening. But it annoys me when, like, the, the powers that are meant to— or at least they purport to protect us— are almost doing everything in their power to make sure that we are, uh, weaker, sicker, more reliant, more dependent, unhealthy. Because a healthy population that is strong and isn't sick is a much less it's much harder to control that population, right? So a lot of the things that come out of the Heart Association, the Australian Cancer Federation, these kind of like organizations which sound very fancy and you think there's a whole bunch of like really smart doctors behind the scenes being like, hey guys, like let's look at all the science and what, what really is the best way to make people healthier. It's like, no, they are getting funded by either food corporations or sunscreen corporations and like, yeah, the Australian sunscreen company XYZ is donating to the Cancer Federation to figure out, you know, the best way to prevent skin cancer. Well, no, they're just paying board members so that these guys recommend this is the best sunscreen for you and boom, they get a ton of revenue and a ton of sales. It is not to keep us in our healthiest forms. And that goes pretty much across the board with all dietary, um, dietary recommendations as well.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's, um, it's something that, uh, you know, is very easily overlooked. But I just don't think you, uh, as, as, as a consumer, you don't have to look too deeply into it. I know a lot of people, like, they start getting you know, worked up when I'm sort of engaging in this type of conversation or listening to it, or think it's like it has to be something deeper than it is. I, I've had this conversation with other people, and I won't say with who, but, you know, with one person in particular. I said, you don't have to look at anything that deeply. Just look at it. Look at, um, say pharmaceuticals or the pharmaceutical industry from a surface level point of view. I said They're public, they have shareholders, they have people that have interest in their company and they want to profit. It's like, I've spoken to Brock about this, we've got more than muscle. Yes, we want to profit. It's like kind of saying like, I don't wanna give everything away for free and not be able to sustain my own life. And then you take sort of the, sort of for lack of a better term, tricks of the trade, you know, when you own a business and you apply that to a trillion-dollar industry, you know, what do you think they're capable of in order to make, you know, last year's profit double? Like what, it's just surface-level thinking. You don't have to think Yeah, conspiracy theories.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

To realize, all right, they don't give a shit about your health. They care about profiting. That's— that is the ultimate goal as far as, uh, you know, anyone should be able to see.

Yeah, and that's what you have to look at with, you know, the situation that's kind of unfolded over the last 2 years. Go look at Pfizer's fucking before and after, uh, profit in, in this whole scenario. And, you know, we don't have to get into that. It's kind of been beaten to death. But like you said, it's not canceled anyway, man. I'm uncancelable. You can only get canceled if you give a shit, you know? Like, oh, these guys—

100%.

Literally, like, you can only cancel yourself. It's the same as, like, you know, taking offense. You can only— you can't give offense to someone. You can only take it, right? So you can only take a cancellation if they— oh, you think I'm crazy? Cool. I don't care. Like, I'm going to say what I say. Regardless. But yeah, it's funny because the bodybuilding and getting bigger and becoming healthier and investigating all the different ways that that happens was pretty much the catalyst for me getting into, oh, so why is this, you know, why is this supplement even necessary? Oh, the soil quality is bad. Oh, okay. So like, what else is kind of in my environment that's bad for me? Oh, so this company made this happen. And what's the history history of this being banned and bodybuilding and like figuring out how to get bigger muscles was almost— it was the pathway for me to becoming inherently highly distrustful of government at the end of the day, you know, which I think is hilarious. Yeah, yeah. What do you— what about the mental side of things? So there's the physical side of things, but how have you found that, uh, bodybuilding and training has impacted your mental state and, and the changes you've kind of experience from that? And, and do you do kind of focused visualization of how you want your muscle to look and things like that? Because I think that's a highly, uh, you know, everything that you do is kind of a result of your mental position as well, uh, especially in creating the body.

Yeah, I definitely visualize how I want to look, and it— like, this is probably the first time I'm saying it publicly or at all out loud. I did have— when I, when I was younger, like, I had, uh, I went on another podcast with these guys from Australia called Hello Sport, and it was just funny that they even had us on because they're all about, you know, NRL and cricket and all this sort of thing.

Yeah.

And we just went on their podcast randomly, and, um, yeah, I brought it up there with, like, I had this this, these bad issues around, you know, how I looked when I was younger. And I was always trying to sort of tailor how I looked according to whatever it was, whatever, you know, the, whatever, um, the girl that I had a crush on liked, you know. So there was this girl that, like, I was like Fall Out Boy, what I was trying to look like, some scene kid. And I wasn't doing it for me, like, it was like, oh, this is what she likes, like, this will impress. It was always for someone else, you know, in the and I wasn't doing anything for me. And, and it got to— thankfully, my sister, who I definitely like at the time, I had a lot of, um, sort of respect for. I respected her opinions, um, and she's quite successful and has always been into sort of health and this sort of thing and exercise. She was saying to me like, you just look sickly. Like, she said something really blunt like that. It was sort of like a wake-up call. And, and I was— I was like, you know, um, clinically anorexic. I think at the same height I am now, which is like 6 foot, I was about 58 kilos.

Holy shit. Yeah, wow.

Then in perspective, I'm like 90 now, and the heaviest I've been is 98. So that was incredibly thin and sickly. And so I started like— or I was like, what, like, what do— how do I want to look? How do I want to present myself, you know? And I always— I had this fascination with like shows like Dragon Ball Z and movies with Arnold in it and that sort of thing. And I loved Arnold's physique. And it just— it was that same thing at the— like, for a period of time, it was like, this is never going to be achievable. And I haven't achieved that, but it's like, to have people say, oh, you look like Arnold— like, honestly, it is like, it's very rewarding because I just had one image and it was just Arnold's physique. And I just actually Um, you know, it's not like he's gonna be listening to this, so he shouldn't take offense to it. I cut his, uh, head off this image and just put his physique up, like, on my bedroom wall. This is one physique. It was just Arnold's physique.

Yeah.

And I would look at my physique in the mirror and try and find similarities, like, between the two. And I thought, if I can't find any, that's it. I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna try and find another visit, you know, that I could sort of tailor my own physique around while I'm trying to gain muscle. Yeah, but I did— admittedly, I did see some similarities, you know, like where the, the belly button sat under like 4 abs instead of 6 and things like that. So it was like a shorter sort of looking torso because the pecs are longer, uh, and the longer looking legs because of that and all this sort of thing. Like, I was adding all that stuff up and I thought, oh, maybe I could create something like this. And then my mentality went so from that to then It was like a switch, like a light switch. It was just, no, I can do this, and I will do like whatever it takes to do it, except I could like— except drugs. I just couldn't do it. There was something about, um, you know, I think kind of like knowing that and looking at everyone else in gyms and things that did take steroids, I thought there's something not quite right about whatever they're taking today in comparison because the skin doesn't look clean, it just doesn't look healthy. The blood pressure looks like, you know, it's gone through the roof. And I just couldn't bring myself ever to take steroids. So I thought, I'm just gonna have to do the best I can naturally. But my mindset was still on this idea that I could look like Arnold, basically. I could get that big. And I haven't yet, but I'm still like, I don't think like that, like, oh, maybe I've reached my, my natural, um, genetic potential. Like, I never once thought that. And each year I make some more progress, and, and, and I think, wow, if I actually— if I listen to those guys in the gym that said, yeah, man, to achieve that, like, to achieve what I have now, basically you're gonna have to take gear.

Yeah.

If I listen to that, like a lot of people do, I wouldn't be where I am today. Like, I'm actually able— I was able to start a business and actually make money just purely because of the physique I have. And it's not to say that wasn't hard work. Like, we're talking 10+ years of like arduous training.

Yeah.

But yeah, my mentality's always been pretty strong with that. But, um, the, the doing— to answer your question, actually training, it's kind of like the culmination of the training, the sun exposure, you know. I try really hard, like especially lately, to get good quality, uh, longer sleep, um, all that. Has definitely improved. I did a post about this, about it sort of improving obviously my physique, like my psychology, even my skin. Uh, like that was after years of struggling like to, to rid like my skin of like acne. And, and also it helped me overcome a lot of psychosocial adversity, you know, with people that suffer from you know, whether it be anxiety, ADHD, ADD, all these, all these very modern sort of nuanced, um, you know, quote-unquote illnesses that people are diagnosed with. Yeah, I'm not— yeah, it's just symptoms of their, of their surroundings, really. We live in this world where you go to the gym, look how many— like, at the gym I train at, there's 100,000 TVs. Like, it's very easy to get distracted. There's constant distractions. That's the way everything's made to be set up. So it's, it's definitely going to be hard for anyone to go, all right, I just want to focus all my attention into this thing. And the kind of mentality that, like, to say, to build a good physique, the kind of mentality you have to do that in today's day and age. Yeah, extremely commendable if you get there, because you've also got a million distractions trying to force you out of that one-track mind.

Yeah, yeah.

So, um, but training, the sun exposure, and obviously diet, I guarantee will help anyone overcome those psychosocial adversities they may be, uh, you know, going through. Just, just exercising in general. If you don't exercise today, start and do something every day. Just, just move, eat better. And by eat better, I mean eat whole foods, eat foods that are, um, not in a packet, essentially. Like, yeah, and, um, and get some fucking sun. You'll feel good, I guarantee you. I feel good every day. And yeah, regardless of what's going on in my life, like, if I just— it's been raining a lot here, but if If I just see the sun, my moods improve. You know, a lot of people can say the same thing, and there's a good reason for that. You know, yeah, it's, um, it all goes hand in hand.

It's, it's very simple at the end of the day. Um, we overcomplicate things because of the culture that we're in. Again, kind of looping back to the start, um, our mental energy, we have, you know, 24 hours a day, we're sleeping for a lot of it, and then The thing is, the things that you're focusing on at a basic level, they're the things that grow in energy. If you're spending hours a day visualizing what kind of physique you want, plus thinking about your training, plus your diet, sleep, and whatever, you're going to make more progress the more dialed in and focused you are. And this is why anyone that achieves anything of any great note is they are one-track-minded. They're always thinking about this thing.

Thing.

And that it's because they're directing their mental energy towards it. And the issue with why a lot of people don't get the physique they want is they're distracted in the gym, they're on their phones. When they're not in the gym, they're distracted, they're on their phones, they're watching TV or whatever. All of that is, it's kind of by design as well by these, you know, corporations, media corporations. They, they want your attention because their attention— your attention is is valuable to them. You know, they try and optimize algorithms to keep you on their apps because then they can sell more ad revenue, so on and so forth. But all that it ends up doing for you as the consumer is taking away from anything you want to do. Even take the gym completely out of it. You want to become a chess master. You have to dedicate your mental energy to thinking about chess and doing chess every single day. So the principle is the same across all metrics. It's like, You want to succeed in life? Okay, get your health in order so that you do not have the distraction of low energy, the distraction of pain and dysfunction in your body, the distraction of indigestion. You know, all these things that take your mind off focusing on what you truly want. That's, that's, you know, that's why we want to direct energy towards our health and make sure that, as you said, you feel, you feel good every day, you feel motivated every day. You're much more likely to practice the thing that you want to achieve great things at, or, you know, creativity and things like that. You can't be creative and whatever if you're sick and you're ill. So your health is really your number one priority, and training in a way that facilitates health and doesn't, you know, hamstring you—pun not intended—is really important for everything that you do. And I think this podcast has been a bit of a masterclass in terms of like what are the key things that will get you to where you want to be in terms of physique. But all of the, the kind of principles, uh, we've mentioned can be applied to anything you want to achieve in life. So Joel Kellett, man, thank you for your inspiration. Thank you for joining me on the Soulcast, and I really appreciate your time, man. What are you working on at the moment? Talk about More Than Muscle a bit, and where can people find you?

Uh, people can find me on, uh, really only on Instagram. Or, you know, through my website, which is morethanmuscle.com.au. Uh, with More Than Muscle, you know, I wrote a bunch of ebooks. Like, so they're very affordable, uh, very affordably priced ebooks on everything from training to diet. I wrote a nutrition ebook that I think anyone listening to this would be very interested in. It, it not just touches on, you know, what, what we've been speaking about here, but um, goes into, you know, depth on everything nutrition and everything whole foods, and more about what you should be doing rather than what you shouldn't. Um, and also apparel. Like, we, we started apparel a couple years ago, and it's— that's very slow moving. That's, that's on us. We just, um, haven't got as much out as we hoped. But, um, yeah, that's what we're working on now. Um, Yeah, you can find the MTM page on Instagram. It's, uh, MTM underscore More Than Muscle, or my Instagram, which is @overkell.

Boom. Okay, bro, well, thank you so much for joining me again. I'm sure we'll run this back, and, uh, in the future we'll get a lift in together.

Dude, I'd love that. Appreciate, appreciate you having me on and your time, man. That was a good chat.

Thank you. No worries. And for those listening at home, see you next time.