Ep. 120 Your Epic Keynote and Career with Jane Atkinson

Oh, no. Too soon. Hey there, Mark. I am thrilled to have Ms. Wealthy Speaker Jane Atkinson. She is the one who. Let's just say we've had Kendra hall. We've had Ryan Estes. These are like rockstar. There's speakers, there's great speakers, there's unforgettable speakers, and then there's rockstar speakers. She actually is kind of the brains behind helping them build their brand. She's also the author of the epic keynote.

Yes. And you know what? It's gonna be epic when you get to meet Jane Atkinson.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown. Mark Brown.

Your life tells a. And there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time.

Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, AHAs. Let's dive right in.

All right, well, welcome, Jane. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for taking time out of your schedule to help people be. There's good. Great. Unforgettable. And now epic. Epic. So, Jane, a little bit of background on you. So for people who don't know you, how did you get started in being the maker of wealthy speakers?

You know, it's funny. I got into this business because of an epic presentation, an unforgettable presentation that I witnessed over 30 years ago. I was kind of trying to figure out what I wanted to do next in my career and had lots of jobs, 25 years old, kind of wandering in a little. Not aimlessly, but, you know, from job to job. And I saw Les Brown's live your dream speech on pbs, so that's our public broadcasting system. And I recorded it on vhs, so that dates me. And I watched it over and over and over again, and I thought, that's it. I was working on a contract at 3M at the time. I thought, that's it. I. I am going to go and work for a motivational speaker. And so I crafted this beautiful letter to Les Brown and his team. They were in Detroit. I just happened to be living in London, Ontario, and they sent me back an order form for his products that didn't quite pan out. But be careful what you wish for, because within a matter of weeks, I was working for my first motivational speaker.

Wow, that's pretty awesome. You mentioned Les Brown, by the way. For those who are new to our podcast, we did interview Les Brown back in episode 88. That was a pretty epic interview as well.

I can imagine. We laughed probably about 10 years later about his office sending me the order form. In that moment, I was working at 3m on a contract and there was a woman who was just leaving as a vice president at 3M to go and launch her career as a, a motivational speaker. And so I worked with her best friend. She put me in touch and bang, bang, boom. You know, really, it's true that what you put out there is important because it often comes true.

And how did that assignment give you direction or inform your next steps to get you to be so epic right now?

Well, that was a foundational three years. I went to work as a business manager for a speaker. Three, three years basement office, straight commission. She handed me a stack of business cards, you know, 100 business cards and said, I'm going away. I got, I've got a four week training with Chrysler, then I'm going on two weeks holidays here. Go get me some gigs. I'll see you in six weeks. And it was kind of like this sink or swim situation. And I immersed. I think one of the things that I got from the Les Brown Live youe Dream speech was to be to have your car be a university on wheels, to be learning constantly about your trade. And I immersed myself in those first three years. And Betzka and I, the speaker that I worked for, we really like. We bought the Book at one and Book It Two series by Tom Winninger and we went deeply into how do you get bookings and from, from that. That was the foundation from which I then created a 30 year career from.

Wow. And I do want to get into the business side because that's your expertise. But before we get into that, just a little bit of some of the insights. Because you created a, wrote a book, the epic keynote. What do you think are some of the critical either mistakes or essential elements to being epic?

You know, I think the thing that I see the most in my clients right now and in people who have given me feedback on the book is the balance between stories and teaching. Isn't it our natural tendency to just start teaching? And when Mark Sanborn used the term, when you give people the mental coat pegs to hang the ideas on in the form of stories, that allows them to remember things. So, so they may not remember leadership tip number three, which is teaching, but they will probably remember the story about you on the, you know, the day on the beach with your child. And this happened and that happened. It wasn't the starfish story. But you know, they're going to remember that. And so I think probably even the most seasoned speakers have to remind themselves to constantly be crafting and recrafting the story. And a term that I heard, I think from Mark Scherenbrock was you want to kind of throw out all your material onto the floor in front of you and then audition your best stories to see what's going to make it back in. And I don't know if we do the throw out process enough. And so if you've been telling a story for five years, it's been probably time that you start looking at auditioning that to see if it makes it back in. And that's one of the things that I'd encourage people to do over the holidays, for instance, is let's spend some time really thinking about how do I go to this next level in my presentations, both virtual and in person. You know, maybe it's just leveling up your virtual equipment or the look of your. The look of your office or whatever it might be.

Wow, sweet. And you see this all the time in terms of working with your clients. So again, just on the presentation, we'll get right over to the business because that's your strength. What do people do as mistakes? Like you mentioned that, but any other mistakes that stop people from being epic?

I think when we forget, and this is something that I think we all have to remind ourselves of, I think when we forget to make it about them and not about us, that can be something that becomes less memorable. For instance, one of the things we talk about in the book, this is an idea that came from Joe Calloway, is talking about making the audience the heroes of your stories. So by doing your homework and your research, you know ahead of time that you have someone in the audience who can be the hero of the story that makes your point. And you're able to go and interview them ahead of time and really find out great ideas that you can then pull into. And when you say, you know, stand up, Rosa, let's give Rosa a hand now it's all about her and not about you and your ideas for them. And I think that the more we can make other people the heroes in our stories, that's probably something you guys talk about all the time. Is it?

Yeah. But you came at it from a different angle where you said, what are the points you're trying to make? And then asking the client, is there anyone who had this challenge or this problem that's different, that's deeper that's better. That's awesome. Mark.

Yeah. Because Darren has been saying this for a long time. I guess he must have gotten one of the cards out of your playbook because he has always advocated going in early one, but even before that, contact a senior officer and ask who are your top five people in this area? And actually interview them. So when times come to present, he has information about that particular individual that he can share. And I invite. I went to a program for Boeing once and I did a similar thing and I pointed out somebody who'd been there for like 35 years. And it was amazing to see the reaction that the audience gives when you know enough to acknowledge an individual, their length of service, how long they've been there. That tells the audience, I'm not. If I'm not incorrect, Jane tells the audience, I didn't just bring a cookie cutter back pocket speech.

Yes.

Customize my remarks just to satisfy my audience. And in their minds, and in their minds, I become more epic because they now see I've made the effort to let them know they are important.

What's the best not reward. What's the best piece of feedback that you might get from a client? It is, wow, I thought you worked for us. That is a huge compliment. Right. And I would even encourage. So let's say you're an executive. We really want to be doing this in our speeches as executives, calling out particular people. Let's say you're a celebrity. I used to work with Sugar Ray Leonard, who is of course, as you may know, a boxer. And it's. The story is all about him, but helping him figure out how do you make this more about them? Not everybody wants to get into the boxing ring. Not everybody wants to get to the Olympics. That's not their goal. How do you make it more about them? And so I think that no matter where you are, this can apply. This can apply. Trying to make other people the heroes of your stories is a very cool idea.

Yeah. And when you actually reach out to them too and talk to, let's just say Barbara. So Barbara from the company or association, you're not only showing you did your homework, but now if everybody loves Barbara, you want to know who everybody loves? Not, not, let's just say the villain in the company.

Yeah. You definitely want to make sure that you're asking for someone who is well loved. Because if Barbara is a brown noser and everybody knows that, then you're like, okay, you're now you've just shot yourself in the foot by using her. So make sure that you word it correctly. And. And we would do this all in the form of a system, I. E. A questionnaire that they would fill out ahead of time. And they would give you these key people that you could call on. And I would take the three key ideas from the speech and ask each one of them if they had a story or a situation where they faced that before, and then you've got lots of material to pull from.

Brilliant. Brilliant. Mark. We never covered that before either. And obviously, you may have heard of a questionnaire, but customizing your questionnaire to try and find the people who could reinforce your point with their stories. And what you also get is if everybody loves Barbara, you get some of Barbara's juice. Like, you get that Barbara Love juice.

Barbara Love, yes.

Yeah.

Overflow.

Get the overflow. Yeah.

All right.

So, Jane, we talked about Kendra, we talked about Ryan Estes, now Sugar Ray. What are some of the ways you helped them, whether it's in their business. Let's switch over to business or a speech here. How did you help them?

If I were coaching with a client over the course of a year, one month we might focus on speech, but the rest of the 11 months, we really are talking about how to move your business forward. What are all the action items that you need to do that are going to get you the best traction, that are going to get you the best results? And so with the Ryans and the kinders of the world, with Sugar Ray Leonard, there was a little probably bit more work on the presentation, simply because as a celebrity, he hadn't given it a lot of thought.

If people don't know Kendra, no one ever heard of her. And then, bam. Everyone's heard of her. She was a keynote at Toastmasters, and she was a keynote at NSA in the same year.

Same year, yeah.

So she came to me probably before that, maybe four years before that or three years before that, and said to me, I'm gonna be your next Ryan Estes. And I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Bring it on. And so she went. She set about it in a very determined factor and in a very determined fashion, I should say. And I think that really deciding and committing to something is so important. Like, that was the beginning of everything for her, just making that statement, just staking that claim. And it's funny, because the three of us did an event in Minneapolis years later, and, you know, there she was, sharing equal stage with Ryan. And it's so amazing to see someone commit to it and then follow all the way through to action and make it happen.

Do you see a lot of people and this is just my own personal curiosity that you give the path to them and then they don't do the work and then they wonder why. But Jane is not working.

Yeah. And so I'll say, for instance, they'll say, well, I've already tried to reach out to that particular industry and I didn't get anywhere. Oh, how many emails did you send to each person? One. Okay, well, that tells me all I need to know. So what we really need to do is create a plan that's going to give you some consistency and some longevity. And it's like a, it's a seed planting process. It's a numbers game to actually see yourself getting booked to speak a lot like Kendra, for instance, started with 600 emails. She sent out the 600 to the American Marketing association chapters and she was doing at the time, I have this new term from d' Abondi pro boner or low bono. Okay. So she was doing some speaking at not necessarily her top fees. She was just getting started and she agreed to go out there and do this for a period of time and spoke to a lot of AMA chapters. And those people today, I will guarantee, are some of her top Fortune 100 clients because that's who's in the American Marketing association is a bunch of people from Fortune 100 corporate. And so she started with 600 email and went and played all those dates, did another 600 emails and now has kept the pipeline full ever since. Those are the action items that need to be taken.

And a little bit of clarity too on the 600. Are you saying 600 individual emails to different people or 200 people, three emails each?

I think probably it was 600 contacts to begin with. And she would have done a series of emails. Yes, yes.

Wow.

Everyone write that down. If you're not making that many calls, that could be your problem.

A commitment to do the work so that they say it's not working. Maybe because I'm not working. Yeah. And I didn't say you, I said me. Maybe because I'm not working. So it's a wake up call to know. But you mentioned a plan and I think that is a key here because very often we don't have the right plan or we haven't. We aren't properly executing the plan. So someone comes to you, Jane, and says, listen, I know it's going to cost me an investment. I'm starting out and I know it's much, but I really, really, really really want to do this? Do I really need to make that kind of investment or can I kind of wing it as I go or do you have a very short conversation with them?

Well, I think that trying to weed out the people who don't really want to do the work is part of a coach's job. Right. We really like to talk to people and see where the commitment is and see what they've been doing. I will say though that there might be an exception to the rule. And actually I would probably put Kendra into this exception in that the Epikino, the keynote being epic is the best form of marketing you can have. And the reason why all of that worked for her is because she was so good on the platform. Coming back to what you all do. And so when you invest the time and energy into getting good on the platform, that is an excellent first step. But if you do indeed want to get booked far and wide, there are going to be steps after that.

Well, I want to go back to that point because since we address so many people who are emerging and here are middle of the road speakers, it is critical to get this, invest the time and energy to being good on the platform. Darren has a less tactful way of saying it. He says if it's not working, it's your speech. But I can't quite do a proper Darren Lacroix impersonation, but you get the idea.

Well, that's actually. Yeah, that's me passing along what I learned from Mike Rayburn, who also learned it from. You just mentioned him. Mark Sherror, Joe Calloway, I think, I think that's where it came. But anyway, if you're not getting the speeches you want, the problem is your speech. I just love that it's like people don't take the time to start there.

There is no better form of marketing than an epic presentation.

Not have said it better myself.

And I think Jane too, to have an epic keynote, you also, some people think it's that Les Brown, one of our heroes in the industry, somebody who inspired all of us to be speakers, you know, Les Brown is Les Brown. Like you can't duplicate it. You gotta find your version in your way. But I think one of the keys to Jane that you talk about, that I've learned from you as well, is to have an epic keynote, you have to have the right keynote in front of the right audience. Like if you don't have the right audience, there's a chance that it could be awesome. But it's not epic because it didn't reach them the way they need it. Your thoughts on getting the right audience?

I think that comes back to that preparation phase and making sure that you have found out where their pain is points are and address those in your presentation. We have heard nightmare stories of speakers walking on stage the day that they announce a thousand people are going to be laid off. Well, okay, let's. I think that's when we have to just read the room and figure out what's going on. But when it comes to your research, you can't stop a week out. You need to be watching the news cycles to know what's happening, like 24 hours ahead of time when you walk onto a corporate stage, because that's how quickly things can change. You need to be watching the Twitter feed, knowing what might be blowing up all around you. And that is the best way. So I would say there's an emphasis on the research because if you are there to provide the wrong message to an audience that's going through something else, then you haven't done your homework and maybe haven't done your homework right up until stage time.

That is so important because I had a similar experience some years ago. I had a corporate event, it was in Canada, and I've been in contact with the CEO for a while and one of his other associates. In my email correspondence, that was going really well. And the week before the presentation, the CEO did not respond to my email. We got the assistant, we got the planning, the hotel's booked, the flights are all set. My speaking slot will be Tuesday at 1pm it's all great. And I get there the day before Monday and I say, you know, I hadn't heard from Jeff. Oh, the. Jeff and the board came to mutual agreement last week. He's no longer here.

Oh, boy.

And I'm going to speak the following morning. This happened to me. I'm like, okay, whatever I was going to say about Jeff and our conversation, that's gone.

Yes.

So you got that night you're going to redo your keynote. The night before, I put a bit more stress on myself because I wasn't aware. I didn't dig deeper. I saw he didn't respond to my email. I never asked, hey, Sal.

Sal, what's going on, Jeff?

What's going on? I never asked a question. And we had one of our guests, I think it was Ford Sakes. Darren came on our podcast and mentioned he went to a program and they weren't responding to him. And he realized they had bad news and he had to change his Whole offering on the fly in the moment. I don't say to put forward down, but the point being sometimes we don't realize what is going on around us. And I love the idea of taking the temperature, being aware now, truth be told, at the time, Jane, Twitter wasn't part of the equation for me. But I understand you want to be aware of what's happening in social media. It could be simple as going to Google and doing a search and hit the word news.

Yes.

Happening now and setting an alert.

Like the day that you get the booking. Let me set an alert. I want to see all the news that's coming down the pike on this company. It's so helpful. You're absolutely right, Coach. Coach Mark. That news, that news button is so helpful in, in Google and a lot of people I don't think know that it's there. Like there's other things that are going to come up first. But if you click on on news, you're really going to get the juice.

Yep, yep, the juice.

And I know, Jane, you also have a program, the wealthy Speaker. So I know we have a lot of, we have pastors, we have presenters, corporate presenters, but also a lot of professional speakers at varying levels in their career. What are some of the essentials? Because I know a lot of them want to get booked more often at higher fees. So since we have you and this is your expertise, I would not be doing our listeners a service if I didn't ask you for two or three ideas. What does it take to be a wealthy speaker versus a wannabe?

So one of the things that I think will allow you to elevate yourself above and beyond is consistency in whatever you choose to do in terms of your outbound marketing. I was just talking to my team an hour ago and we were doing deciding about our Tuesday emails. We have been sending emails every Tuesday at 1 o' clock Eastern time now for probably 10 years and with tips and ideas and newsletters and what have you. And so we're thinking about how do we adjust it. And we're getting into the LinkedIn newsletter, so we're gonna maybe try to double dip with that. In terms of podcast, we had done a podcast probably for eight or nine years, but it wasn't until I got serious about and started to do it weekly that it actually gained traction. So we dabbled for four years and then we committed and got into it and everything has changed with regards to the podcast. So whatever you decide to to do, do it consistently and commit to it. I think that is A huge game changer when it comes to speaking. The second thing I'll say is rather than selling one off speeches where you're doing a transaction, I will come to you on April 24th and deliver such and such presentation. And that will be our relationship. Think about how you can solve a problem for the company over the course of the next year. What is a package that you can offer them that can include a lot of the things that you've already developed? Maybe it's seats at your course or books or maybe virtual events in between live events. Maybe it's more than one live event. You know, how can you develop something that is more trans. Transformational than it is transactional? Okay, so when you're talking to a client, sure, I can come on the 24th of April and do that for you. Why are you doing this event? That should begin a series of questions that will allow you to dig deeply into why somebody has the motivation to bring you in on that topic and let's say, see if we can't provide them with more than a band aid solution. That's a couple of things that's big.

You can't tell. Now, Darren told you I keep track of the keepers, the notes of the wisdom you drop. I began on one page and I flipped it to the other and I'm still writing.

Okay, good.

But there's great wisdom in that because I think the idea of I am a speaker, which means I am going to give a speech, whereas I am a problem solver. Solve your problems with options. One of our partners, we work with another csp, Ed Tate, is always very adamant about the idea of giving them options. Not just here is a fee for a speech, but how can I best serve you? And you made a very key point, which you said so often you probably blew right by it. But you said, jane, you need to ask a series of questions about why they do what they do and figure out what else you have in your arsenal that can serve them, help them, and move from the transactional to the transformational. I'm going to get back to that later on, but for me, that is just epic.

Ed Tate has been a client of mine and I absolutely adore that man. I'm very happy to hear that he's selling bigger packages because that was always a part of our conversation. Let's get to the place where we're transforming companies.

Yeah, love that rubbing off, because I tell you what, I got that from him and he does give you credit for helping him direction. But I did learn that from him too. So that's really valuable. But the key there is to ask better questions, not just say, yes, I can deliver this item to you. So that's really, really powerful. I thank you for that.

This is kind of a selfish question, Jane, because of where I'm at, but I think it might help other people. How important, in your opinion is for the wealthy speaker is a book and or the title of their speech? How important is the title to becoming wealthy, to becoming booked a lot. And then is a book important? What's your take on that?

I would name them both the same thing, by the way. So if you have a title that's good enough to be on a book, it's good enough to be on a speech as well. And I think that a book is a game changer in that it allows you to gather all your thoughts into one place and put them into a formula. And I think that in and of itself is very, very powerful. It also elevates you as the expert. So it just takes you to this next level. Now, sure, lots of people have written books, but I think that it's still something that, let's say a decision maker is looking at three people on one topic and you've written the book on the topic and the other two have not. That may be something that leans into your favor. So I would say that a book is an important thing to elevate your expertise in terms of speech topic titles. I think that's where you get to play. You can test out titles on your keynotes and workshops page. And I don't remember who told me about this idea idea, but I love the idea of the format being title subtitle, so the title can draw people in and get them curious, just like a book title would. The subtitle then shows them exactly what they're going to get. And then you could also put another feature, best audience. And if you wanted to take it that much further, you could even say best format. So the best audience allows you to say, well, this speech is for that group of people. And that way if you are straddling a couple of different niches, it's not a problem in your marketing because it's like clear to me that, oh, okay, this is the one for associations. That's the one that we want to look at. Perfect. And then go on from there. So I think what we find is that titles we can try on a title for size and then if want you, nobody buys it, then we take it away and we put something else on there and we Try something new. But if you have a title that's good enough to go on a book, it should probably go on a speech as well.

So, as we start winding down. Jane, what haven't I asked you that might be helpful for presenters creating the epic keynote and getting paid for it?

Well, I have this postcard in front of me and it's about decision making and it says you cannot play small in your decision making while expecting to play big in your income. Let's say there's people who have been skirting around you all and, you know, maybe I need to get some help. Oh, I'm not sure. I don't think I can really afford it. When you're making your decisions coming from the place as if you're already achieving the income that you want, let's say you are a speaking professional. That is your sole source of income or one of your sources of income. You want to come from the place where you've already achieved your goals. Because when you make decisions based on lack, you're probably going to be limiting yourself. It's kind of like trying to accept accelerate forward with one foot on the gas pedal and one foot on the brake, same time. And so I think that, you know, whether people are looking at coaching with you or coaching or coming into the wealthy speaker school, whatever it might be, be thinking about where you want to come from with this decision and come from a place of abundance and investing in yourself. I mean, my goodness, people go out and spend 30, 40, $100,000 on college and Bach at $20 for a book. So be thinking about it from that perspective. These are foundations that are going to help. And I have to put in a plug for you all. There is no better time or money spent in the early days of your business than on getting an epic presentation. It's gonna really, really pay off.

It becomes the foundation of your whole career.

It really does. And it'll be something that the next decade will be launched from.

I was going to ask one more question, but it becomes has become Darren's trademark to ask one specific question of all our guests before I go into my keepers. So I'll let Darren ask just two questions, one about contact and the other about coffee.

Contact, contact and coffee. So first, Jane, if you are sitting down to have coffee with a presenter who was out there, Covid's kind of messed things up. They really want to be unforgettable or in your case, epic. They're eager, they're hungry, but they really don't know what to do. What Advice would you give them?

Start looking at, you know, who you can learn from, who are the people that you want to emulate? Start watching the tapes and looking at yourself. I think watching our own game tapes back is really hard, but really going in and analyzing and then seek professional help to help take you to the next level. There are people out there who have gone before you. So why invent the wheel when the wheel has already been built for you?

Well said. I was looking. As we were talking, I was looking. I don't know if you've ever seen it, Jane, but I have a picture of my closet. Stacks of VHS tapes, of speeches that I went back and studied. And I say people are jealous of the trophy, but I say be jealous of my closet, which is the work ethic that got me the trophy that most people aren't willing to do.

Exactly. Do the things that your competition is not willing to do. And that is exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah. And I'd even surmise if you have that opportunity to meet a Ryan Estes, to meet a kindred, to meet a rock star, ask them, what did you do? Who did you go to for advice? What books did you read? What courses did you take? Who coached you either in the business side or in the skill side? And if you ask Ryan or Kendra, they would say Jane. So, Jane, if people want to reach out to you know more about your wealthy speaker school, where would they go?

They would go over to speaker launcher.com and we have things for people at all different levels. If you've been in the game for a little while, we have some masterminds. We've got the school, which is just an incredible process to help people move from the beginning through to building a foundation that they'll then scale for the next 10 years.

On speakerlauncher.com Jane, thanks for being here. Mark, what do we got for keepers here with Jane?

Oh, I think I need to take a deep breath and I'm going to need Jane to help me to correct one line. One of my people. But here we go. First of all, let your car be a university on wheels.

That's a Les Brown.

Well, this because you said we need to immerse ourselves in our industry as presenters, create a balance between teaching and stories and constantly craft and recraft your stories. Ask yourself, how can I level up my presentation and my offering and never forget to make it about your audience? Acknowledge audience members who are in the room and make them the heroes of your story to get better equipped and information, customize your questionnaire for your specific audience demographic. Invest time and energy on being epic on the platform and there is no better way to market than to have an epic keynote. Address your audience's pain points and to find out what's happening, track the news on your client's feed, Twitter feed and do Google search and look for news as well right up to the day of your presentation. You don't want to get blindsided.

Brilliant.

Be continually consistent in your outbound marketing and don't think transactional. Think transformational. Seek pro help. Invest in yourself and remember here I need to help Jane, you cannot play small in your decision making and expect to win big.

Play big in your income.

Play big in your income. You cannot play small in your decision making and expect to play big in your income. I have a mouthful, a heart full and a brain full of keepers from you today, Jen Atkinson, and I'm pretty sure you and I will talk again offline.

Yay.

That's fantastic.

Mark, Jane, thanks for taking the time to be with us and helping our audience become epic. Build that epic keynote and more importantly, an epic career. Thank you so much Jane. Wish you all the best. Thanks for being here. Mark, take us home.

Friends, you've heard from the best of the best of the best. Don't be good, don't be great. Be epic and be unforgettable.

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