Ep. 14 How to Choose the Right Speaker Coach for You

Hey, Darren.

Mark.

Yeah. I've been thinking, you know, we have met so many great speakers on our podcast and I was wondering, is there any one thing all these speakers have in common?

Yes. And I think almost every unforgettable presenter. Not the average ones maybe, but every unforgettable presenter has one thing in common.

Do tell. What is it?

They were coached. They were coached. Now there might be that 2%, those rare anomalies that weren't coached. I hate them too, because for the rest of us, we gotta get coached. So, Mark Brown, how do you choose a coach? Let's do this.

Yeah.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? About to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? Ahas, let's dive right in.

Okay, Darren, so you said all these great speakers all had coaches, but how do you find the right coach for you? Any ideas on that?

Yeah, I think I want to back up a half a step and why coaching matters. And we've had people, you know, we have our events and we have, we call VIP coaches at every event. We got that two or three people who are up front and we're working with them. And a few of them, I asked them, what did coaching do for you? So these are their words. David Chase said, getting coach forces you to risk, which ultimately pays off. Gary McKenzie said, When I'm coached, I internalize new techniques. The benefits are quick and lasting. David Fritzland said, getting coach, great coaching expedites the process. And then one more Terry beg, he said, I have so much more confidence. So, Mark, why? What other reasons should people get coached?

I think coaching gives you the opportunity to derive benefit from those who are wiser, more experienced and those who are where you want to be. They're going to help you develop, not only as a presenter, but as somebody who has a chance to influence others. Not just as a presenter, but as an influencer and as a speaker. That's what you are. You are somebody who puts in you has influence, who then shares that influence with other people so they can then do better things, help more people and literally make significant changes to their environment, their company, their corporation.

For years, my mantra has been stage time, stage time, stage time. And for years, for seven years, I grew. I grew Incrementally, I got better and it was slower. And if you remember Mark, episode two, you even know where I'm going with this. Episode two.

Yeah, Mike Rayburn.

Yeah, Mike Rayburn. And if you're listening to this podcast, if you haven't heard Mike's episode, definitely check that out. He's world class. And he said that for years he was self taught and he thought he was pretty good and bright. Brian Tracy was his personal mentor. And Brian Tracy asked Mike, have you committed to being the best? And he said, well, I'm doing pretty good, I'm getting paid well, I'm booked constantly. And he said no, that wasn't the question. Have you committed to being the best? And he said when he sat back and thought about it, he said no, I really haven't. And he had the reflection, the realization that when you're self taught, the teacher's not that good. I love that. And that was me for seven years. I was working really hard. I didn't really know what it meant to be world class. But once you get direction, you can increase your impact. When you can find the right teachers, taking the right courses, that gonna change your trajectory of your career and your audience impact. But until I met you and David McElhaney, my other coach, then it went exponential. I was never the same person after that summer in 2001 when I got coached by you and Dave, then my growth became exponential. You found the holes. I love the analogy about Swiss cheese by Ed Tate. It's like you don't know where your holes are. And everywhere, everyone's holes. Like Swiss cheese, it's in a different place. So the coach helps you find that. When you get feedback from unqualified people, there's feedback's easy. But getting the qualified coach to give you the right feedback is what makes a difference. Cause I had a lot of people give me bad advice early on in one of my presentations. In fact, my winning presentation, that would have lessened my audience impact. And there's a quote, couple quick quotes that I think are important for people to consider. You're like, well, maybe I should get a coach, maybe I shouldn't. Ron Lewison, fellow toastmaster here in Las Vegas, said this brilliantly. He said you should ignore 90% of the feedback you receive. The trick is recognizing the 10%. That's gold. I think that's so important. That's cool. And I love this quote by Geeta Nadkarni. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. She says, a coach has the power to unlock what's always been inside you that you can't access and powerful and important. Because some people think, well, I'm doing pretty good. Well, do you want to be unforgettable? And so I think coaching is one of those things that eluded me for years, and I didn't want to invest the money. I didn't want to invest the time. Honestly, Craig Valentine has that great quote. He says, some people get coaching for validation, some for education. Some people just want. And honestly, Mark, when I came to you, that's what I wanted. I wanted you to just pat me on the back, see how amazing I was. Pat me on the head, and then kind of like, here, do this and this, and you'll be amazing. Ouch.

That's interesting, Dan, because you said you wanted validation, but in the true sense of the word, a good coach makes you better. A good coach makes you better. If you come in thinking I'm good and my coach will give me a couple tweaks here and tell me how good I am, then maybe your mindset isn't in the right place. If you really want to be better, if you want to be unforgettable, you gotta be coachable and let them help you to achieve that which you can, especially they can see in you, as Gita says, what's unlocked within you that you can't get to. So it's important to understand the why you need a coach. I totally agree with that.

Yeah, the why is so important. We just need that help. We can't become great alone. I mean, there's a great book called the Art of War. There's another book, the War of Art. Not to be confused. Mr. Pressfield says in it that he's talking about Tiger Woods. And he says Tiger Woods. It would never even occur to him to be able to figure it out on his own. It would never occur to him to not seek out coaching. I think that's really what I want to emphasize. If you seriously want to be unforgettable, whether you're a pastor, corporate presenter, or professional speaker, if you don't have the courage, if your ego gets in the way, just like mine was in 2001, if you're not coachable, there is no cure. There's two kinds of presenters, and this might sound brutal, but there's those that see the value in a coach and seek it out. And there's those who will never reach their full potential.

That is kind of heavy, the idea of me or somebody else I know not reaching full potential because I Don't need a coach. And funny, mention Tiger Woods. I can recall a few months ago, I was reading USA Today and it said, tiger woods gets new putting coats. He's Tiger Woods. He was the best. He had a difficult run, he came back, he won a trophy, but he gets a new putting coat, but he's Tiger Woods. And that struck me, even the best of the best of the best get coached. And I can happily say, there are times you and I will go to Fripp and say, fripp, what do you think about this? And get her ideas and input. So you're right. Even the best get coach. If you're serious about being unforgettable, you need to get a coach. So we know the why. Yeah.

And even I remember Mike Rayburn talking about it. I love that interview. He said that when he realized, okay, once I committed to this, to being the best, to being that virtuoso, he said, what would a virtuoso do? And he said, take lessons. And he had never taken lessons. So he sought out a coach, Robert Fripp, world renowned guitarist, who did David Bowie's. He was the guitarist on David Bowie's as well as he had his own band or has his own band, King Crimson, which has been super famous. And he said that the first thing that Robert Fripp taught him was how to hold a pick.

Yeah, right.

He goes, I've been doing this for a long time. The one thing I thought I knew how to do was hold a pick.

So that to me has one point of interest, Darren, that sometimes the littlest, most basic thing a good coach can tell you can transform your performance.

And sometimes we have stories that we tell that are good. I remember at one of our boot camps, Patricia Fripp happened to be in town and she said, could I pop by and see what you guys are doing? And we said, of course. And I showed this video clip of one of my favorite stories that has worked and always got laughs, my valet story. She watched it and at the end she said, darren, why don't you make the meeting planner an Amazon meeting planner? I was like, why? Never thought of that. And so now when I describe the event planner, I have her be an Amazon woman. Why? Because she was very intimidating and it helped me tell the story. It increased the conflict, which made the payoff much better. I've been telling that for years. And it worked for you. Listening to this podcast, do you have some stories that are always working? What if they could be even better?

Mm, well said. I love that. I Love that. And the Amazon gives. It gives the audience a visual image of what she looked like, so it added a bit more of a flavor. Again, how do you hold a pick? A small change, a small nuance. And someone like Patricia Fripp, the legendary Ms. Fripper, gave you some advice to do that. So we hear about Robert Fripp, who, by the way, is Fripp's brother, who's a virtuoso guitarist, and Ms. Fripp, who is a legend in the business. And these are all top notch coaches. How do I find a coach? What if I can't afford a top notch coach? Are there other coaches out there who can really help me? And what do I look for in a coach?

That's what you and I wanted to focus on on this podcast because I had a great experience right off the bat. You had an experience, too. So let's just talk about our experiences and then we can relate that. We have, like a checklist here for you to consider and go through when you're finding a coach. Because if you end up with the wrong coach, it could hurt even more. And then you'll never get coached because you have a bad experience. So, Mark and I want you to give you a process to go through to find the right coach for you. There's no one perfect, amazing coach. Well, other than Mark Brown, but other than that, I'll pay you later.

Trust me.

So, Mark, tell me about your coach's experience. And you had more than one coach, right?

Yeah. I think the key here is. Yes, we may think if I have this one coach, my world is perfect and I'm all set. Not true. My coach is David Brooks, who is a 1990 world champion of public speaking. And when he was coaching me back in the previous millennium, we did it old school, by fax and by phone. For those who are millennials, a fact is a box on your desk. Never mind. Okay. But he was the wordsmith. He taught me structure, where things go, and why I had the raw material. But he was the wordsmith. He was structured, he was content. He would tell me how to use a phrase in a better way. It was really remarkable. But his style was to ask questions. When I asked a question, hey, David, what about this? Is it too me centered or why do you think that? And he made me go back and rethink. I would rethink my question. He helped me. He would guide me to find the answer. And he was wonderful with the content. But the week before the Toastmasters World Championship, I was living in Mount Vernon, New York, and I drove to New York City to meet a pair of toastmasters, Robert and Randy Cadalia, who've been around for a very long time. And they were my platform skills coaches. I went to their home in New York City and we spent two or three hours there with a video camera. And I would do my talk and they would question why I moved that way, why didn't stand still. And they really showed me. I was so green then, but they really showed me how you could use the stage to tell the story and depict certain scenes and how to use nuance. And I did a lion's roar in my speech and they told me how to make the roar real, not just go roar, but to actually do the roar. You teach about blocking and holograms and all that. They taught me all of this in a three hour marathon session with a video camera. And it really made a difference. The point is, sometimes different coaches are really experts in certain areas. And if you have different coaches for different needs, not just in giving a particular presentation, but concept, style, it made such a big difference. And I realized we were able to gel because we have a good match in our personalities. And sometimes people try to get a coach because somebody says he or she's great and you meet them and you don't really have the right kind of personality. And trust me, I've had clients who were difficult to work with. I tell myself I choose not to work with them again because one, we didn't have the right match in terms of personality. I guess my first recommendation would be, you know, you hear a name, check them out, do your due diligence, find out who they are, because they may not be the right match for you and your personality. I don't know what it was like for you when you first met me or why you even chose me, but we're still here 18 years later, so it can't have been all that bad, right?

Well, you know. No, just kidding, just kidding. I think what's important is Mark and I are stressing, don't just get a coach, you gotta get the right coach. Because two things. Number one, coaches have different quality. Just like speakers are of different quality. There's bad coaches, there's average coaches, there's good coaches, there's amazing coaches, and then there's the right coach for you know that. Number one, there are different quality of coaches. Just because somebody says they're a coach doesn't mean they know what they're doing. It means they're starting their business. You don't know where they're at. You got to do some due diligence. So, number one, there's different quality of coaches, and number two, great coaches have different ninja skill sets. Sometimes you might coach with one person for a while to help you with one aspect of your speaking and maybe somebody else for another aspect. So when I met you, Mark, because I was looking for a coach, I said, you know, I'm in this contest. I started winning, I should probably get a coach. And I had never been coached before 2001, so I started looking for who is around that I really think is good and is known to be a good teacher. You and I talked about this before when we were preparing for this podcast, that just because someone's a great speaker does not mean they're a great coach. There's a difference between being a great speaker and being able to coach it, because we've even seen this even in the Toastmasters World Championship, that sometimes you can tell who's been coached by who because it's almost like the technique shines through rather than the right coach will dig out your own delivery style and your own stories and put them in your own words. I remember Jock Elliott, world champion, says, my words might not fit in your mouth.

Your mouth. Yeah, yeah. Remember that? Yeah, Brilliant line. And the thing is, Darren, is one other slight nuance here. You may find yourself faced with the potential to have one of two who are good coaches. One is very good and one is deemed great by the. And your mind is, well, they're great. I want to work with them. But they might not match your personality and you get to the one who is very good, you're an instant match. And what happens is, if you opt for the one who's very good, the payoff and the benefit is better because the relationship, the experience is that much better that the great coach at the world sees would not have been the right fit for you. And hear me carefully, sometimes the one who is not considered great because they are better for you actually gives you greater benefit because it's a relationship, it's a personality match. You want to spend time with them, they invest their time in you, and in the end, it's a better experience. Don't just go for a reputation, as Darren says, it has to be the right coach for you.

Yeah. When I found David McElhaney, I said, Here's a guy who's been to the semifinals and at the same time, he also is out there teaching this. And I like him. I trust him. Trust is so important. If you don't know the person. Okay, well, you got to do some due diligence. We'll get that into in a minute. We'll go deeper into that. But for now, you got to find that person that you can be open to trusting and then see if maybe you can, in fact, build some trust with that person so you'll be more coachable. So when I started working with Dave, he just. He was great. He saw the insight. Although, you know, part of the story, Mark, he said I had to write out my speech. I said, what? I don't write out my speech. I'm in the moment. I've got a. I'm a bullet point guy, okay? Like, no, I need to be connected. And he said, okay, Darren, you came to me for coaching. Here's my first bit of advice. And you're arguing with me. I'm like, oh, got me. And then I honestly tried to follow his advice. I sat down to type out my speech. I'm like, I don't work this way. I called him up, I said, dave, I'm really trying to follow your advice.

Give me.

Is there another way? And he said, yes, absolutely. He said, go give your speech the way you want to record it and then come back and transcribe it. Oh, Mark. I was passionate. I was into it, I was connected. But when I looked at my own words, oh, man. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And here's one of the secrets. You can't edit what you don't write down. It's hard to edit in your head. So the first bit of advice, and then I realized, bam. Little boy needed a lot to learn, and he's not as good as you think. And I realized I might have been passionate, I might have been connected, but I wasn't saying anything and it wasn't that deep.

Yeah, but you trusted him. You built a relationship that was built on trust. It's easy, particularly in Toastmasters, to say, well, I'm in a contest. Let me go find a world champion and they'll be my coach. Not really. Darren, you and I both.

I know, I know this happens. That's why it's funny.

They see a title. He's a world champion. Oh, Darren Lacroix. He is an accredited speaker. I'll go to him. Or is a csp. I'll go to him. And they go with the credential. But you've got to understand the power of the relationship. So that's really, really. I'm really glad you mentioned that. About being trust, trusting them and knowing who they Are you heard about Mark Brown. He's a world champion. He's on the East Coast. He's easy to get to. You could have said, okay, he's Mark, I'll take him. But I want to get a feeling you did some more digging than that to kind of find out more about me. I hope you did anyway.

Well, I listened to my coach, who I had trust with, and he said he had gone to the semifinals and he didn't win. And he said, once I got to the semifinals, he said, I can't take you where I haven't been.

Whoa, hold that. I need to hear that concept again one more time.

I can't take you where I haven't been. And that was big. He hadn't been to the big stage. There was a different mindset. There's a different set of circumstances. So he reached out to Mark and asked if Mark would then co coach me. And David stepped back. So he was still one of my coaches. He was still on my team. He stepped back. Here's the other cool thing about having two coaches is David McElhaney saw some things in me and my speech that were missing that Mark didn't bring up. Mark helped me in many areas. But for example, one of the things he said you need is some Darrenisms. I was like, what's a Darrenism? Well, Mark has Marcisms. Darren is Darrenisms. But Dave was able to point out and realize I had no unique phrases. I had no terms that were coined in me to have that memorable phrase or term that would then become memorable and the audience would walk away with. So we created the phrase Ouch Master. So in Toastmasters, you have a contest. Master, you have a table topics Master, you have the Toastmaster. So my message was about mastering the ouch. So we coined that phrase to resonate with that audience. But that was something that I got from my other coach. Mark helped me in other areas. Mark was the wordsmith. Mark was the story guy. Mark pulled the right stories out of me. David, that was not his ninja skill set. So I needed both. I needed help in both areas.

Mark, to go back to this point about trusting your coach, I hope y' all didn't miss this. Darren says he wanted to get to the big dance. And he trusted Dave enough to know that when Dave says, listen, I can't take you where I've not been, but I know somebody who can. He trusted Dave enough to believe that I would be able to help him. We would get along very, very well. We would build that relationship and history Proves Here we are 18 years later doing this podcast, trying to help you become unforgettable. That trust in Dave existed. A trust was passed on to me and it made a huge difference in the way we were able to work together, relate together. So trust the coach. Don't just go for the title. He or she's a cpae. That's great. Somebody says they're fantastic. No, Find out who they are and you could even do some more. As far as getting involved and doing some due diligence there, what else do you recommend to make sure they're right for you?

Yeah, well, I also want to plant the seed at the end of the podcast. I have a little mini assessment that we're gonna ask you. Take some inventory where you're at and maybe where you could get some help. So stick around to the end for that, for the assessment. But going back to our story and reason, so let's start going, how do you choose a coach? Where do you look? And one of my first tips on this is ask. Ask the speakers around you be careful. Figure out what level they're at and are they talking about, well, here's a person who coaches or are they talking about, well, here's a world class coach that I know helped my friend. We're really looking for that credibility through experience that someone was helped. You can Google search. So if you want to work with somebody face to face, if that's important to you, you could Google search speaker coaches in your area through the beauty of Zoom and other webinar platforms. Now don't have to do it face to face, but if that is going to work better for you and you're going to have more trust, then find one local. Find a coach near you and you can do a Google search. But don't just take for granted whatever's on their site. You gotta do some due diligence. I had a conversation yesterday with world champions Ed Tait and Craig Valentine and I asked them too for some of their insights. So some of these insights come right from them when they had their experience as well. How do you start looking for a coach?

I'm glad you said referrals because if I want to be coached, if I have friends, associates, people in the industry or the genre who are getting success, I'm going to ask who would you recommend that you believe could help me to achieve the goal I have? Who would you recommend? You want to ask your. You want to verify with your top five people you trust the most? Ask them who do you think might be A good fit for me. And that's only the first step because you may get four or five different answers, which means if you get four or five answers, which of those four or five is the best fit for you? That's only the beginning of the process.

If you know someone in nsa, National Speakers association, great place to ask around as well because you want to ask people who are in the professional level for their advice of who they've heard. Here's the cool thing. If you start hearing a common name, chances are that could be a good coach. So we're looking for that commonality. So that might be one way that, oh, okay, so start with a list of people you could choose from, have that list and then build on that, keep asking. It's a fairly involved process, but we're talking about your career. We're talking about finding the right person is going to affect the rest of your career, not just these three months or two months or six months, however long you work with them. That's just to change your trajectory, ask around, look for commonalities, maybe do some Google search. But of course, personal recommendation goes so much further.

Also, Darren, don't forget now when you ask some of these experts what they recommend, they may in turn ask you, well, what exactly are you looking for? When you say a coach, what do you really need? Because sometimes, as Darren knows in his business at stage time, you have business coaches, you have speaking coaches. Somebody may say, look, I'm fine with my words, but I just tend to be on ones. But I don't know how to use a statement. I need somebody who can really help me to in my presentation style. Oh, you might want to talk to Darren Lacroix because he's really good at that. Or go to Mark. Mark said wordsmiths, they may ask exactly what you need and they may make you drill down more deeply to find out. What do you mean by a coach? That's a general term. You want to say, I need somebody who can help me to advance in these key areas so I can really build my business. When you can be more specific, then your network can also help you more closely and then also sift. Or they'll filter out and weed out people who can't meet that specific need. So you want to be listen, as Darren says, it's your career, it's your future. You want to drill down deep and find out who can help me to achieve these specific goals. At times that may be also a.

Consideration as you do some of your research. Here's an insight, an Important insight is to look at the testimonials on their webpage. So their testimonials on their webpage are a clue. But then here's the important part. Find those people who gave those testimonials and see if there's a way you could have a personal conversation with them. Because this came from talking to Craig and Ed, that in that conversation you're going to be able to read between the lines a little more. I had one person, I'm not going to use their name that I was looking into learning from. I looked at the site, I looked at the testimonials and someone who gave a testimonial. I know someone who knows that that person. I sought them out online and I reached out to them and even though they gave a glowing testimonial, now I'm not exactly sure how this went down, but they basically didn't want to talk about the person.

Wow.

Yeah. Which tells me I don't even need to know. But that's enough information that there's maybe a lack of integrity. May, I don't know, it doesn't even matter. Next, taking the time to do some due diligence by asking the person who has a test. Now if this person's putting a testimonial on their website and that person doesn't really want to talk about that person. That speaks volumes.

Red flags.

That speaks volumes.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Another suggestion too is to get their products. What are some of those? If they're a coach, chances are maybe they have an MP3, maybe they have a book, maybe they have an audio program or a six week class. Invest small to be able to get a feel for this person. So as you go through their course, does it make me want to know more about them? Would I be more willing to open up or less willing? Do I want to know more or not quite enamored with them as I was at first. That's perfect. That just saved you time. And chances are that one course is going to cost a lot less than time with them coaching. So if you pay for the time coaching, you are also probably paying more and it's going to take a lot more of your time before you discover that. So if we can figure that out beforehand by doing again the due diligence. Also someone suggested the sniff test, meaning again having that conversation. But I just love the term because it just, just made a lot more sense because you want to find out and read between the lines. Even if it's a phone call or maybe a Facebook instant message. Or some other way to get a little more insight. Because if the person goes, oh, my gosh, that coach was awesome. I did 12 sessions with them. I can't wait to save up and I want more. Blah, blah, blah, okay, now that person doesn't mean he's the right coach for you or her is the right coach for you, but it just just moved up in your list.

Right? Right. Well said. And the thing is, I'm pretty sure you're going to see coaches on their website will tell you what they offer. And I just said, some have certain ninja skills. And it's important to understand, can this particular coach strengthen my area of weakness, which means you have to be honest with yourself about what area do you need in improving. And when you're honest about that, don't just get a coach who is a good coach, but will this coach help me to improve on my weaknesses while not losing the strength I already have? So you got to figure, what is the best investment of my time, my money, and my effort for me to achieve my goals? Don't just say, well, I'll tell the world I got coached by Darren Lacroix. It looked at my cv, okay. And he was awesome, fun to work with. The question is, you want to be sure. Can this particular coach, does their ninja skill meet my particular need? I have had potential clients come to me and talk about certain. I had an email this week. I went to an NSA event recently and gentleman got hold of me and he says, I want to do X, Y and Z. And I pointed out, here's my strength. Number two, your question, number two, that's my wheelhouse. I can certainly help you there. Number three, I'm not the best for this. So right now, as I record this, he's saying, I'm going to get back to you. Which is fine with me because I will not take an assignment to help someone when I know I'm not meeting their specific need. I'm not helping them to strengthen their weakness. I may not be the best, I may be good, but I may not be the best for them. If he does come back to me and we see exactly what he wants, we'll straighten that out. But you've got to be honest. Who will help me to improve on my weaknesses? And as a coach, I gotta be honest, if that's not my strength, I'm not gonna sell you that just to have a new client, a new name on my resume, or some more money in my pocket. I'm not gonna do that.

Yeah. Craig spoke about when he was looking for a coach his first time. His first coach was Patricia Fripp. He said he knew he was pretty good with stories, but he knew structure was a place that he needed some help. So he bought some of Patricia Fripp's products, which is exactly what we're telling you. That do a little investment, a mini investment, is gonna save you time, and you'll probably learn something along the way. But he said he wanted to find someone who was strong where he was weak. I love that he wanted to find a coach who was strong where he was weak. And as Mark and I keep saying, each coach has their own ninja skill set. They might be good in many areas, but they still have their strength. For me, using the stage and in the dialogue, delivering the dialogue, that's my strength. That's why I love working with you, Mark, because when you and I coach at a live event, we just have this cohesiveness. I'm using all the wrong words today. This cohesiveness that you help them with the words. Now, here's the other cool thing. When you get a coach, if they have a strength where you're weak, you're also gonna find some collateral growth. I just termed that phrase collateral growth, Mark.

Collateral growth. Right. It's done. November 22nd.

Okay, well, I was thinking about that. I was thinking collateral damage, meaning they'll help you in other areas. So even though Craig might have gone to Patricia for help with structure, she may have still given him a couple insights in storytelling. So you're still going to find other side effects, other collateral growth from a good coach. But still, the reason we go to them is for that place where they have a ninja skill, where we are weak.

So it's not just, I need a coach, why I want to get better. That's nice. But in what area, in what way, and for what purpose do you want to get better? Which means part of this get a coach process is you being 100% honest with yourself, identifying your weaknesses, and then doing everything you can to strengthen those weaknesses. Definitely.

Yeah. And create a list of potential coaches as you narrow it down and as you think it through. And if you meditate. Meditate. If you pray, Pray about it, who would be the best person for you then? One of the things that Mark and I recommend is have a conversation with your top five. So yesterday I had a conversation, and Ed was looking into a business coach, and he talked it through with me and Craig, and we said, you know what? You need to do this because it's the right coach, the Right time. And you trust this person and they're strong where you are weak. And it was great because he fully thought. Because it was a huge investment. He fully thought we were going to say no. And I thought about it and all that he said. I could tell he was itching to do this. And here's the cool part. He knew when he sits down with this person, it's gonna be painful there, too. Like, when you started working with me, I didn't know it was painful. And it was painful at first, but after the fact, I know I needed it. And I'm not the same speaker I was 77 days later when I started working with you. I'll never be the same again because I was coached. So have a conversation. So narrow it down to maybe two or three, and then bring your research, your thoughts, your feelings to the people that you trust. Now, they don't have to be speakers, just people that you trust that you know will tell you the truth about what you're gonna make for a decision. I think that's really key, Mark.

It is. Because if you're serious, and I believe you are, it's gonna require an investment of time, effort, energy, and money to achieve the goal you want. As Darren said earlier, it's your career, it's your future. So you want to make sure that you get wise counsel from the best advisors, those whom you trust most. And they need not be fellow speakers, but individuals who you trust. They'll give you guidance, wisdom. It's like having some of the best minds on the top boards of companies. They may not be involved in the manufacturing of widgets, but they are minds. They understand business, and they serve on the board to advise the chairman in the same way, your five, your top five will advise you what steps to take and who may seem best for you. And chances are. Chances are, as was the case with Ed yesterday, that when your 5 agrees, it's likely that their hearts will be aligned with yours. If you have done all the due diligence, if you're honest with yourself about why you want as coach, chances are you and your five will be in harmony and in agreement about next steps in hiring that coach and working with that coach. So, yeah, it's a very good idea. Talk to those who advise you closely as to how to handle it.

Yeah. And in talking it out, you're even gonna listen to your own words. And you might even realize as you talk it out, you know the decision you need to make. And they might also stop you from investing with the wrong person. Sometimes we make that emotional decision.

Yes, yes.

And I want to be. Yeah, it's almost like pride. I want to be coached by Fripp. Like, I want to say I was coached by Fripp. Well, she might not be the right coach for you, but you're definitely doing it for the wrong reason because you want to brag about the person you were coached by, whoever that is. That's not the reason to get coached.

As a coach myself, I can recall one time an individual approached me and she was very honest. She said, I'm looking at three different coaches right now and I want to hear more about you. I want to talk to you a little bit and kind of see if we're a good fit. And we had a conversation. And then eventually she told me, you know what, Mark? I'm going to hold off for a while. I'm going to go with X. I said, great. If they're the best fit for you, I wish you nothing but success and blessings and go for it. And it didn't bother me one bit because I knew she made that decision based upon having done the research and who was best for her. The piece that we haven't talked about yet, Darren, is that she contacted me and we had a conversation. And it's possible that different people have different ideas about what happens when you first contact a coach for potential. I mean, it's an interview. Technically you want to interview him. Right. But there are different schools of thought regarding what happens in that interview and how it's being handled. What have you heard about that approach in the past? Yeah.

Sometimes coaches will call it a discovery call. And it's interesting because I heard two opposite philosophies on the discovery call. I know one coach that I heard of. Sometimes people will call them so often because they're successful at what they do that they really are doing the discovery call to get free coaching.

Oh, sneaky.

So they really don't want to invest. They really don't want to. And I love what. What she does and how she handles it. I won't use her name, but very blunt and very straight up front and says, look, this is not a coaching call. This is a discovery call. We'll talk about it. We'll see if we're a good fit. But do not pick my brain. And I love that. Now, on the other side, Patricia Fripp, when she was talking to Craig having his discovery call, she immediately jumped in and started coaching him. That's her approach and that works best for her. So she gives away like A free mini coaching session. And she suggested. And Craig tells a story. She said, why don't you tell me how you open your speech? And Craig gave his opening at that time and she said, I'm going to suggest you never do that again. And he said, bam. I knew she was the right one for me because she didn't hold back. She. He told the truth. And he had already, just like we suggested, already purchased some of her programs and went through them as he was doing his due diligence. That's the cool thing. As you do that due diligence, you're going to learn something anyway. Even if you choose not to go with that person as a coach. It built trust with him. He had the Discovery call. She coached him immediately and just told it like it is. And boom. Sometimes people who revere us with the wrong intentions and the wrong reasons, they're going to give us too much street cred. And then they think some people won't be blunt with us and won't be honest. It's like when you get coaching, you got to be ready to hear the truth. You can't handle the truth.

Who ordered it? Okay, we're not going to go there today, but do you see, though, Darren, you just mentioned this. Choose approaches that coaches may have to the Discovery call and if. If your goal is to find out about them but also get a taste of your coaching style. Not every coach is going to reveal that on a discovery call. Some will, some won't. And that may be a factor for you. I don't know. Ultimately the decisions and the choices are going to be yours, but you want to give yourself every opportunity to learn everything you can about a coach to decide for yourself if he or she will be the best fit for you and the best value and ROI for your investment.

Yeah. And we need that person, that coach that will challenge us for our own best good without making us incredibly uncomfortable.

Now you're gonna be a little uncomfortable, but you're saying. Wait, you're saying on one hand, challenge us, but don't make us uncomfortable. Now, how do you relate that idea to our interaction back in 2001?

I wasn't uncomfortable. I was mad. Don't you see my brilliance, Mark? Don't you see how talented I am? Do you know anyone who's as animated and passionate as me who doesn't say anything? Yes, you were certainly very passionate.

Animated. But all kidding aside, what was really heartwarming for me was that despite the fact you were uncommon and in a full friend's honest Full disclosure. There was a point early in our interaction. It was Dave, Darren and me in the little theater, the Wallace Auditorium, Reader's Digest in Chappaqua, New York, back in 2001. We had to literally take a break, breathe, relax, cool off, and we came back together. I challenged him. He kind of pushed back. I asserted my authority as a coach, and Dave was a referee, and it cooled off nicely. But you know what? Darren's heart is so big, and I mean this sincerely. He wants to help the world. And he saw and appreciated the fact that I was trying to help him despite his discomfort. And he came bearing gifts the next time, a genuine gift to say thank you for being patient with him and for working with him. And here we are. As I record this, we are here 18 years later, and I love this man. We love to work together. And it began with me challenging him. Him being uncomfortable, but sticking with it. And now we have a wonderful relationship that I will never exchange with anyone, anywhere in the world for any reason. It was worth it. Wow.

Thank you. And you said it so politely. You said that I was willing to be uncomfortable. And you said that you phrased it so perfectly. Not that I was angry and mad at you. Anyway. You're very kind. Before we get to the assessment, which I think will be very helpful for people, Mark any other thoughts in terms of finding a coach and why we should find a coach and who do we choose? How do you get started?

As we said before, you have to determine exactly what you need. Because sometimes people get a coach because somebody said, you know what? You're okay, but you need a coach to get better. And they walk away and you're like, okay, I need a coach. But you don't know. What do they mean by I need a coach? As Darren often says, you don't know what you don't know. So if someone says, you could do so much better if you get a coach, have that conversation, what do you mean? What do you see in my performance, my style, my presentation, my content? What do you see that's lacking? So if I can identify where my shortfall is, then I can now more aggressively and with more direct focus, take on the responsibility of building myself with the right kind of coach. So find out what your needs are, where you fall short, identify those who can meet that need and go through the whole process. Again, we mentioned due diligence. Anyone you can trust have those conversations. Is that somebody I can build a relationship with or not? Because I can tell you right now, I can think of three people Right now who I've been coaching, who if they call me again about coaching, my calendar is full. I'm being honest, it's just not worth it. We weren't a good fit but they heard Mark Brown, world champion csp. He has coached other world champions, he has coach finalists. This guy came third, he came second. Mark is great. That does not mean I am the right person for you.

And also sometimes it's the mindset that the person brings. They're not fully coachable. They're looking for the validation rather than the education. Like me ator I came to you but I switched over and realized how much help I truly needed. Sometimes it's the person, when you go to a coach, just know that some of them that are really busy and earning a lot and helping a lot of people, they're not going to want to put up with your crap.

Like be honest Darren, don't hold back.

Yeah, they're not going to want to put up with it like you did Mark, you were very kind and I got over it, thank goodness. But they do this professional like if you need the hand holding, you're not ready for a coach. If you're like yeah, somebody hurt me, somebody ripped me apart, I'm ready. I really want to grow now because just like our coachees said earlier, it accelerates your growth. When you can be open now, it takes courage. But when you are and when you're ready, that's the quickest path to be unforgettable. By the way, if you want to check out we have a list of coaches. If you go to get a, you'll even find mark there. But getaspeakingcoach.com might be the beginning of building your list. Another thing you could do which I love about our online university, check out stagetime University because we have mini coaching as part of our membership that you can get a five minute piece of your presentation looked at live during our membership calls which we do once a week. So every week there's an opportunity to be coach you personally by two world class coaches. And here's the cool thing, we record each of them and then we have it inside the university that we have two coaches on each column. They're different each week there's a different combination but that's another way that you could watch the coaching and see who resonates with you before you invest in the coaching. So just go to stagetimeuniversity.com if you want to check that out. Just click on speak like a pro and check that out and See what we have as options now. So, Mark, one of the things I promised before we were done was the assessment. So what I'm going to do for those of you listening to this is I'm going to ask you to pull out a piece of paper and I know this is asking a lot, or pull out your phone and I'm going to ask you some different aspects of your speaking, of your presentation or keynote or sermon, whatever that is for you and rate yourself from 1 to 10. From 1 to 10. And I would even, I'm going to ask you to write down two numbers where you are now and where you want to be a year from now. So let's just say one is an amateur, five is you stand out from the rest, and nine or ten is world class. So Mark, I'm going to play a little subtle music while we do this because I want you to think about this. Take the time to write it down. This could be the most important few minutes. We'll do this quickly, but I think it's important to almost take inventory of where you're at. And this might help you figure out where you might need or want some coaching. Again, one is amateur. Five is you stand out from most people around you. And 9 or 10 is world class. So write down two numbers where you are now, 1 to 10, and where you want to be a year from now. So Mark, actually, I'll have you read that off.

First category.

Yes.

With your speech title. Is your speech title an amateurish speech title? Is it a standout speech title or is it a world class speech title? On a scale of one to ten, think about that.

Okay, Number two, clarity of your message. How clear is your message? Be honest with yourself. This is for you. 1 to 10, clarity of your message.

Your speech introduction. First of all, do you write your own? If you don't, you want to write your own, we're going to do a podcast on how to write a good introduction as well. So on a scale of 1 to 10, is your intro amateurish? Will it stand out or is it world class?

Next, your foundational phrase, that marketing phrase, that memorable phrase that you are known for. Stage time, stage time, stage time. Your forgettery. 1 to 10. Rate your if you don't have one, that would be one. But your foundational phrase.

Category, the number of stories in your story file. Your life is full of stories. We teach ways to find these stories. So number of stories in your file. If you only have one, eh, but one to ten, keep a good number of stories in your Story, like a library of stories. Stories.

Next, your unforgettable stories. So first, Mark asked you about the number of stories, but those key stories that you use over and over again, your unforgettable stories, how would you rate them? 1 to 10?

And since stories are so important, what about this? Your storytelling ability? Again, not the content, but how well you deliver it. On a scale of 1 to 10, how well can you tell and deliver your stories and how well and how quickly can you create a new story or customize the story to an audience? Think about how do you tell it, how can you adjust it, how can you tweak it, how can you deliver it well?

Next is your client stories. The success stories of your client. How would you rate those? People that you've helped, people who've read your book and did something with it, people who've been coached by you, people who went through your courses, your client success stories, how would you rate those?

I guess that's your son, Darren. Next category is your speech structure. We teach a lot about structure at stage time. On a scale of 1 to 10, is your speech structure strong enough to flow well and to get you to your. Get your audience to your destination? Well, scale of 1 to 10.

Remember, write down where you're at and where you want to be a year from now.

Two numbers for each item. Where I am now, where I want to be.

Next. If you had to rate your open and closing, your opening and your closing, how would you rate your speech? Opening and closing, 1 to 10.

And this one is really important, it's your delivery, not just how you tell a story. It's your entire presentation. On a scale of 1 to 10, where are you now on your entire speech delivery or where do you want to be a year from now? On a scale of 1 to 10, on your entire speech delivery.

And Mark, and I hope this is eye opening, taking your own inventory, but also helping you clarify where maybe you could use some help. So think about it this way. What would a world class speaker do? What gaps are most important for you to close? Meaning if you wrote down a 2 and you wanted to be a 10, that's a big gap. So that might be one worth focusing on. So Mark, other thoughts? Closing thoughts. And do we have any keepers?

Well, I'm hoping that for me one of the big keepers is the idea that don't get a coach just for validation. You want to get a coach who is going to give you guidance to help you achieve specific goals. You want to get a coach who is going to make you better. Don't just go to get validated because I'm good. I know it's also a don't. It's very important. Don't just get a coach for the name recognition. I got coached by Tony Robbins, therefore I am great. That's not the purpose of it. Okay. One of my keepers for me is definitely this. You want to identify a coach who will help you to overcome your weaknesses. Get a coach who will help you overcome your weaknesses and one keeper. General Statement not every great presenter is a great coach. I'll say it again, not every great presenter is a great coach. And the biggest one for me in any area of my life. Verify Wizard 5. Talk to your key advisors. Get their wisdom, their insight, their input to help you make a decision. If you have the kind of relationship with them that you think you do, chances are you may find yourself in agreement with them and you'll make your best choice and decision that way. Those are my big four keepers here, Dan.

And I think it's such an important decision that they're going to encourage you. Your top five are going to encourage you or discourage you. And this is an important decision because it's also making you vulnerable when you find that coach. But again, you don't have to have a lifetime relationship with the coach. I mean Mark does with me.

So far I have.

But so far you have. So it's an important decision. But don't not make the decision because it could be crucial and it could catapult you to a whole nother level. And then again, Mark, my inspiration in the moment. Collateral growth.

Nice phrase, right? Nice phrase. Don't forget the wise words. Words from Mike Rayburn. The problem with being self taught is the teacher ain't that good.

So if you want to be unforgettable, I hope this conversation has helped give you some new insights on how to choose a coach and the fact that maybe you should choose a coach or if you've been coached in the past, maybe it's time to get coached again. Consider check out getaspeakingcoach.com as well as Stagetown University if you want to do your due diligence through checking out our online university and getting coached by Mark or me in one of the calls. It's a great way to get started and get some new insights as well.

Hey Darren, been great fun today. Hopefully our listeners will find themselves good coaches and those who already are experienced and who are coaches will bear in mind the responsibility we have to be good coaches to help our clients help ourselves and. And help everyone be unforgettable. Yeah.

And talking about unforgettable and coached. Next week, Mark, we're going to sit down with Mark Eaton, seven4.com. Check it out. Former NBA All Star. Just amazing, man. One of my favorite people on the planet and one of the rare celebrities, so a sports celebrity who is coachable. We see a lot of celebrity speakers out there and a lot of them are not very coachable. Some of them are average, some of them are good. But Mark has grown so much since he came to our first boot camp many years ago. So he's like gone. Way surpassed us. And I got to be with him at a keynote he did here in Vegas. Just sit in the back of the room and I was just like, I was like beaming. I was so proud of him and his proud papa.

One of your children. Yeah. Awesome, man.

And he's going to talk about getting a speech, right? Because that's what he got. He came to our event, we helped him find some stories but he didn't stop there. He kept finding a speech writer to help him with his speech. At the same time you get to hear Mark Eaton very inspiring story as well. So I hope you can join us next week for our Unforgettable presentations podcast. See ya.

See ya.

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If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out Stagetime University where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about, go to stagetimeuniversity.com join us next week. If you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.