Ep. 140 Inside the Brain of a Bureau with Deia Starr Rank

Hey there. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast. When we can sit down with someone who books speakers for a living, like this is what they do. It's enlightening. So today we're going to go inside the mind of a bureau.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas? Let's dive right in.

Dia Rang, thanks for joining us. Thrilled to have you here. For those of you listening, Mark Brown, who is usually my co host, had a power outage in Georgia, so we're hoping he pops in. But we're going to keep and honor the time. So Dia, thank you. Thank you, thank you for joining us. So here we are. You started your career. Let's get a little background first. You started your career back in 1999. You knew Ford when Ford Sakes was still in training wheels in the speaking world and training world. Tell us about how you got started.

Absolutely. And he wasn't training wheels back then. He still may be right. No kidding. I entered this business in 1999 in the training side of the industry. And like people who want to get into this and dive in headfirst, they get into public seminar training because there is no faster way on this earth to get your skill from good to great in about this much time when you're practicing it day after day after day, pounding the pavement two and three weeks out of a month. So I got into that industry. Loved it. I started doing a lot of train the trainer. I was part of my role at the company was speaker recruiting. So I got to do all the vetting. And I love the days because it was those back when your sizzle reel wasn't very sizzly and it was like great big VHS tape and all of those good things. And here's the fun thing. I remember when I would watch a video, what I would do is I would actually, I would put the video in, start it, and then I would turn my back and not look at that.

Interesting.

Because I wanted, I would. I'm like, I didn't want to see them. I didn't want to pass judgment and all those good things. So I would listen and if I was intrigued and I like the voice inflection and I love the tone and the pace and all of those things. And then some hopefully good content. Then I would turn around and begin reading your resume and see what the expertise was and so on and so forth. That's how I got into the industry. And then my skills are. Are ones of pretty heavy left brain. So I started doing a lot of the logistical side of the and working on speaker recruiting, doing scheduling, management, travel management, hotel management, kind of all of the bells and whistles that have to be in place, I guess I should say, for a speaker to go out there on stage and do their thing. So fast Forward to about 2016. I decided to jump over to the bureau side of the business and do more of the keynote speaking side. Different than the training. And they are two different worlds. Some speakers are very equipped to do both sides of that world and some are better facilitators and trainers and some are better keynote speakers. So now I get to do the best of both worlds, mostly on the keynoting side, but because of that training background can do some of the clients who are needing the main stage keynote, but then also the education side or breakout sessions.

So you have been doing this since 1999 and then in 2016 you move over to keynoting. So you have seen a lot. So let's just go back to the early days when you were doing vhs and I know it was a big day in your career when they finally got you your own tv.

Yes.

So you didn't have to be in the boardroom and you could sit there and watch and turn your back. I love that, love that, love that. What are some of the things you used to vet people on? Like what are some of the things you're like? Nope. Yeah, maybe. Nope.

Number one, speaking has a level of entertainment. So you can be the smartest person, you can be best looking, you can be all of these things. But at the end of the day, there isn't. Remember when the edutainment term came out? I can't really remember that one. Maybe early 2000s or something. I just remember that became a big buzzword and I felt like that was a really good word for people to really digest and understand. Because in this industry there is a. There is a part of entertainment that's required to be successful at it. So, you know, I might have a big no or a big aunt. Would it be somebody who might have amazing content, but they just are on the stage, they can't engage and they can't create a desired outcome or the desired outcome of interest and those kind of things. So, you know, finding somebody who had great energy, great content and the look, you know, I mean, I would may not sound very PC to talk about, but this is showmanship or show personship, if you will. So having, you know, looking great, doing the best you can with your physique, whether that's a man and some color or something. I mean, you know, you don't want to be in a black drop background with a black suit. I mean, as silly as that sounds, the look and doing the best you can. So those are all things that I used to look for and coach on, honestly, you know, kind of train the trainer. But it's interesting because really a all those same principles apply to this day. It's just in the keynoting business, most people who are taking that level of stage, they've got all those tools already in there. You know, they've lived and they've known, you know, here are the things that I do to be successful on the main stage.

How do you give people advice on like great energy or the look? Like, do you encourage people who maybe aren't quite ready yet to maybe get a fashion consultant or.

There are so many great resources and you know, thanks to Mr. And Mrs. Google about anything in the world out there works. Right? So I mean there's a lot of resources that we can send them to, you know, whether it's dressing coaches or makeup coaches or whatnot. But really at the end of the day, what I spend a lot of time doing is finding speakers that I think are at the caliber and that's not just about looks or presentation style, but it could even be about a speaker's website. So I'm a big believer in. Nothing really in this industry is brand new, to be very honest. I mean you can look way back to Zig Ziglar days and you can go way, way back. And while things are rearranged and recreated and new and fresh ideas, it's silly to recreate really cool stuff. So when I've got a speaker that I see could use some pump up in certain areas, I might guide them to another speaker's website or guide them to a service that I know, a trusted service that might be doing some train the trainer or presentation skills or marketing enhancement because there's a lot of great resources like that out there for speakers if they want to take it up a notch.

Yeah, I think though you have that opportunity to create the awareness for people where they'll listen to you. I could tell Them I could give them advice. I learned early on I suck at fashion, so I need help in that area. So I had to hire somebody. And I don't know if you with your family, you know, remember about Granimals, I need somebody to say, this shirt goes with this jacket and I take a picture and then when I'm going on the road, I'm like, okay, so which shirt with which jacket? But I know that I don't know. So aware, awareness is critical for sure.

And here's a cool thing, is that when you're looking to do keynote speaking, and I'm talking like the main general session stages at large events, and most of the events that I book now are usually those bigger annual events or semiannual sales meetings, those type of things where associations or corporations are bringing people together once or twice a year. And here's the thing, when the client is looking for that keynote speaker, all of those tools of the trade, if you will, the websites, the titles and descriptions of your topic with the desirable outcomes, your sizzle reel, all of these pieces, marketing tools, if you will, they're really, really critical when I'm presenting those to the client. So in my role now, when a client says to me, you know, I always say there's a little bit of. It reminds me a little bit of like a real estate agent, Darren, if I was going to say, hey, I want you to. Or that you said to me, d, I'm going to move my family to Kansas City. And you know, I've got this much to spend on a home here. We would like to have a finished basement. We want to be close to highways, into an airport, like. So, in other words, you're giving me the specs of what you need. And if I was your realtor, then what I would do is I would go with all of those specs that you're providing me and I would say, hey, Darren, bring your family down here this Saturday. I've got five homes I want you to take a look at. You go and look at those homes. You like it? You like it? Stink, stink, stink. My job is to maybe bring two or three more ideas to the table. Again, still within your specific. And so a bureau has a very similar role in that. When I'm working directly with a client, I have to know what their specs are. So I do a lot of vetting, asking lots of questions to that client. Because what they're using me for is they're using my brain of being in the industry. 20 some years of here are my Specs. And then I say to them, okay, here are four or five, six, seven people, whatever the number is, that would really, really match up with your current specs. So those tools of the trade, those marketing tools, the sizzle reel, the look, the website, all of these pie. If I'm presenting that speaker among four or five other peers to that client, you can't look subpar. Right. You've got to look awesome. So all of those, you know, just that package of being a speaker, it's not just what you're saying. In my world, the marketing tools are really, really important because that's what the speaker's seeing. They're kind of making a first impression based on what I'm sending over.

Wow. And so having those tools. So our job is to have the tools to hand to you. And I love the analogy of the realtor. And here's the specs that I'm looking for. I never looked at it that way. Brilliant. And it helps us understand what you have and what your real role is. Connecting the right specs.

Yeah. You know what's weird? It's my job is matchmaking. It really is. Like, when you step back, like, it's really about understanding who is attending my clients meeting. Is it. Are they members as an association? Are they a bunch of entrepreneurs? Is it a, you know, like, who are the people coming? So I spend a lot of time understanding who the clients. Participants are. And then ultimately all of those little ancillary, you know, like, I have some. Here's my favorite. I'll have a client say, well, I want somebody who's motivational. And I always go, whoa, let's back way off of that great big word. Because motivational is a really, really, really big word and means a lot of different things to lots of people. Is it somebody who has overcome a horrific life experience, maybe near death or a climbing or a fire? I don't know, like just a horrible life experience. Is that the level of motivation or inspiration they're looking for? Or are they looking for a business speaker who is entertaining to listen to and motivational to listen to? So these are all things that I have to do a good job of asking the right questions, and then that's why. And then I can provide them with the right solutions. Hopefully.

Yeah. So it's understanding their definition of motivational because there's. It's such a big word that you got to know how they're looking at it.

That's correct.

Gotcha. And welcome back, Mark. I'm glad the power came back on In Georgia.

Oh, it's a different tale for a different time. My apologies, my friends.

No, out of your control. No worries, dear. Early on you said that you were in the training world and now you're in the keynoting world. Just because now I'm personally curious. We talk about being unforgettable. What does it take to be an unforgettable trainer versus an unforgettable keynoter?

Well, that's a great question and I'm sure it has a lot of different definitions, but I feel like most of the clients that I hear from, they want a keynoter to leave them in thought and in mind, feeling inspired, maybe thinking a little differently. And on the training side or more of the breakout or education sessions, like in a large event. Now that's where your clients are saying, I need tangible takeaways. I need something that they can leave with today that my attendee will be able to go back and implement right away back into their work, home, personal, whatever it is. So, you know, I would say that's not, not to say there aren't some companies that may not or may want some tangible pieces in a keynote session. I just think the difference is a little bit. When you have 60 minutes, you know, standard keynote is going to be or 45, 75 minutes, your breakout session, we might get an hour to two hours possibly out of a breakout. And again, this is, I'm just speaking general sense of like what I see clients booking, you know, so in a one hour period, if you can leave them in thought, if you can make them laugh, if you can leave them inspired and just get them trying to think just a little bit differently of how they might do the business. Whereas in the training side of the breakout sessions, they're really looking for a little bit more facilitation, some specific things that they can walk out with and change.

Nice. Well said, well said. And since we teach people about being unforgettable, what is your definition of an unforgettable keynote speaker? What do we need to have or work on?

Well, oh, gosh. Well, I mean, I ultimately, so I'm not going to answer this the way you think. Ultimately we have to have the client who's at the top of the ladder happy. Right. So I always kind of visualize this business as a ladder and rungs on the ladder. Not to degrade what I do, but I do look at myself as being kind of the lower rungs and that client looks to me to provide them with great solutions so that at the end of the day their Keynote was a success, whether it was everybody is rating high on surveys or maybe it was a standing ovation, whatever that success looks like. So really what, what we try to do is I try to come up with those ideas, then I find talent. Like you guys like these amazing speakers out there, they make that choice. And so what does an amazing keynote look like is that client. We're all pushing each other up. I'm pushing you up as a speaker, the speaker's pushing up the client, and then at the end of the day, the client shines when everybody in the audience is pleased. Right. So it's hard for me to say exactly what that success. I mean, ultimately the success relies on the client being satisfied. But that comes in a process, right? I mean, and that's why, you know, it does take a little bit of time to make sure. One of the things that I really love to encourage a client is that they're looking at a proposal and they're going, gosh, I wonder if Darren Lacroix would be a good match this year. I don't want to push them one way or the other because I want it to be their decision. I've given you the idea. Of course, I believed and trusted in you. Right. You're great. I put them in front of you because I would never put somebody in front of a client I didn't believe and trusted.

Yeah, because it's your reputation.

Totally my reputation. Because think about it. If the speaker collapsed, if the client isn't happy, the speaker collapses. If the speaker collapses, I collapse. So when I tell you we are in this together, every one of our reputation is on the line. You know, I really just want them to. If they're on the fence or they think that you're a great fit but aren't sure, then I always encourage us to do what I call an exploratory call. And it's a little bit of time investment for you and the client and myself, to be honest. But here's what I know. 15 to 20 minutes with you on the phone with a client, two things will happen. Well, number one, you can always sell yourself better than I can at the end of the day. But ultimately, here's what I know, that client's going to hang up the phone and they're either to go, boom, he's the one, or not hitting the mark. And both are equally valuable, right? I mean, who wants to spend 10, 20, $50,000 on a keynote speaker and not satisfying none of us. Right? You don't want that. I don't Want that. The client doesn't want that. So you know, really to circle back what is an amazing keynote look like, it really is about the satisfaction of the client.

Nice, nice. Love that answer. Love, love, love that answer. And in your going inside the mind of a bureau for a speaker who wants to get booked, we obviously all want to get booked. We all want to get booked at a high fee. But what are the. Let's just say what are the most important marketing materials? Like where does demo video to one sheet to website. What do you believe is most important? To have a great.

Yeah. So yeah, no, that's, that's awesome because like I mentioned, these tools are critical for, for me to get a bite. Think of me like a fisherman, you know, or a fisherwoman, whatever. I'm out there fishing for great big walleye fish, you know, and if I don't have the right bait, I don't get the. I don't even get to reel anything yet. 100% a good sizzle reel. These things cost a ton of money and they take a lot of time. And ultimately what I mean by time is not just the production of it, but you've got to gather the, the stages. Everybody wants that big fancy multi screen woo woo woo stage and those are hard to get on. But I also, you know, you also don't want to be in a boardroom on every slice of footage that you have and not showing that you're a bigger speaker than just like a little boardroom speaker. So the sizzle reel is huge. I get asked all the time, like how long do they need to be? And I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I don't think there's a magic number of minutes what I find clients asking more. So you know, a speaker reel will be. Sometimes we see too much sizzle in the real. So while oftentimes a speaker might think that testimonial after testimonial, woven in, woven and woven in is like the main thing. I think a little bit of that is awesome. And like I love when you know, a little quick zip of a bunch of branding like big name woo woo woos that recognizable companies that you've spoken for. I think that's important. The clients really want to see what do you talk about far more than they want to hear how amazing the speaker is and they want to hear those testimonials. I don't mean that the wrong way. Sure. But I would say that as you're creating those sizzle reels, when you when you look at the big picture, whether it's 2 minutes, 4 minutes, 7 minutes long, ask yourself, if somebody watched this, does it just like a look like a big infomercial? Or could somebody really understand from watching this what I talk about without giving them the bank? If you can't answer to that ladder, then I would say put a little bit more meat into that. So the tools of the trade, we've got to have a sizzle reel. We have to have topic titles with descriptions. In other words, you know, you might have a flashy, fun marketing title, but under that title we must have a description of what will the client, what's this talk about? And then ideally maybe three or four bullet points of key takeaways that the viewer or attendee will walk away with. So a sizzle reel keynote titles and how many keynote titles? I don't know. There's no magic again to this. There's no right or wrong. I work with some speakers that have one keynote title. I have some speakers who have 25 keynote titles. I would tell you probably not and probably not have more than one, but 25 looks like the jack of all trades, master of none. So, you know, a few different keynote titles. Think about what sector is it going to hit service, Customer service, Is it going to hit leadership, Is it going to hit sales? You know, I don't know what your expertise might be, but think about what different genre of area that might work in. So sizzle reel topics. And then of course, we love to have a great bio on you. That's always important. And from a bureau standpoint, what we need really are, is the sizzle reel, the topics, a bio and a professional. Here's a fun one for you, Darren. A professional high res headshot that looks like you today.

I can't go back 15 years, five years ago. Oh man.

Oh my gosh, you would die. Oh boy. Sometimes I just. I mean, you kind of love when I have to make that call and say, can I get a headshot like from today instead of 20 years ago? Because I've had that bite me before. I mean, clients again, it's almost like I'm mismarketing. If it doesn't look like. I mean, I know that sounds kind of crazy and I'm sort of joking about it, but it's. I really shouldn't be joking about it because I've had a client comment going, whoa, that doesn't look anything like them in their pictures. So again, why would we create a ick taste in the client's mouth? We Want to represent the speaker as who they are today. So that kind of goes along with careful on your sizzle reels. They take a lot of time. They cost a ton of money to do. But watch yourself because everything has a shelf life and we all evolve. So, you know, you can look at websites where there's sizzle reels, where they have footage from 15 years ago. And you know, I guess I'd ask you is that if you're in this business for 15 years, aren't you a lot better today than you were 15 years ago? So let's show them. Let's show them your very best.

Well, I mean, I guess that means I can't have my. My picture of me dreadlocks in Darren. That's not gonna work.

You know, Gosh dang it.

No dreadlocks, man. That's not going to work at.

You want to find something fun and spiff and, you know, hair. No hair. I don't know what to tell you.

But yeah, well, dia. To your point about scissor reels, do you find on average that people who are actively getting booked regularly change their scissor reel every two to four years? Is there a thing there or not really?

Yes, I would say there. I would say definitely within about a four to five year period they're operating. And again, it goes back to these things. They just have a shelf life. And one tip I would give you is when you're creating that sizzle reel, I would caution any speaker because of the investment, to avoid any background that shows a date. So, you know, sometimes on a podium, you might be at the whatever, whatever event 2020. I would just avoid any clips that you're actually cutting from those in your sizzle reel to be dateless and make sure nowhere in your footage, you know, for example, right now, cause this is relevant, is that I wouldn't be mentioned if you're in the process right now of putting tons of money and time into the sizzle reel. I wouldn't really mention anything about the pandemic because what I'm hopeful for is that in maybe two more years, we're not even talking about, I mean, I don't know, maybe we will be up to question. But my point is you want to avoid date stamping your content. That might show that. Because the truth of it is your content 5, 6, 7 years later may still be very relevant. Okay, but if you're date stamping it and now they know that it's from 2017, I will have a client say, do you have anything More recent sent. The two biggest questions I get asked from a client when they are reviewing sizzle reels are two things. Do you have anything more recent? And number two, do you have anything that shows more content? So again, when you're thinking about I kind of hate that they're even called sizzle reels. While they need to be a little bit entertaining, it really is less woo woo and enough snippets of what your content. And here's my worst question I get from clients is, you know, when you do have multiple topics, I have some clients that will inevitably ask me, do you have a sizzle? Do you have a video on this topic? It's like a speaker cannot afford to have a video on every single topic title they do, right? So that usually becomes my role to educate the client. You know, what you have to do when you're watching these videos is you have to do you like who they are? Do you like their personality? Is that the right fit? Is their energy the right fit? Could you listen to them for 60 minutes or does their voice make you crave? You know, like it's see if you like the flavor of the speaker. And then what I'll do is I'll try to get them on the phone with you to talk more about the content about XYZ topic that I may not be able to show video footage.

Of question for you on that last piece. Diya, do you ever offer to do a video conference so they can see the speaker in person, read their body language, their face, how they dress, their demeanor? Is that also one of your techniques, so to speak?

One of the hardest things in my business is getting that client on the phone with you. I think I said earlier that at the end of the day you can always sell yourself as a speaker better than I can, no matter how much I know you. And I try to get to know speakers because at the end of the day, the speaker is my product. And the better I know my product, the better I can sell my product. But here's, here's how it works. So when a client is ready to go, they're ready to begin looking at speakers. I act on them immediately. So one other pro tip I would give you as a speaker if you're interested in working with bureaus, is that is if you get an email from a bureau office, stop what you're doing if at all possible, and respond at your very earliest. It's so selfish of me to say this, isn't it? But get back to us as quickly as possible because there's tons of speakers out there, there's tons of bureaus out there and none of them are better or worse. Everyone just operates a little differently. But one of the differentiation factors that I try to make for my own business is to be able to get back to that client quickly. So the faster you let me know, know, are you available, is this your current fee? Any of these kind of pieces, then I can look like a superstar when I get back to the client and try to try to get back with them. So how the process works is my client says, hey, I'm ready to start looking at speakers. Here's the specs that I'm looking for. And then within a 24 hour period, I will have a proposal link in their inbox with a small handful. Again, this is every bureau's different. Some bureaus pitch a lot of speakers at one time, some don't do many not right or wrong, that's personal preference. But then I will, so I will provide them with that link at that point in time. On the bureau side of the business, usually we're working with a meeting planner. I'm not always working with the decision maker. I'm working with a meeting planner or a committee of mini cooks in the kitchen. So they look at that link, they begin reviewing the speakers. It could be a week, it could be two months. It just, everybody works at their own beats to their own drum, works at their own pace. And so once they have narrowed it down, like, I kind of keep checking in with them, how are we coming? Who's rising to the top? Is there any, you know, is there any hard and fast no's? Let's get them out of the link so that we can keep a running list of potentials in a perfect world at that point in time. If I could get every client on that exploratory call that I mentioned earlier, where it's just no, no strings attached, you've got 15 to 20 minutes of time investment. So do I and so does the client. If I could make that happen every time, I would. But that's like pulling, you know, wisdom teeth with no Novocaine to try to get that client on the phone because it could be a whole committee. So it's, it's just not. While a speaker thinks that's so easy. Well, get them on the phone, I'll close the sale. Yeah, believe me, I'd love to. And sometimes I can. And I tell you, most of the time it's a trickier thing to do. So what typically happens is they begin reviewing they might find a few like I mentioned if they're on the teeter totter then I'll say hey, let's get on a call. Let's make sure you know and then hopefully then we'll bring in contract to you know, or releasing holds. That's the other fun part.

So yeah. One of the things you, I hope everyone heard is that getting back to you quickly is imperative. And I learned from Patricia Fripp years ago, always try and be the client's favorite. So as to me to the client, but also me to the bureau, what else is important to be your favorite. If Mark and I want to be your favorite to work with with ever, what could we do to reach that status?

You have to look like Mark and do sweet things like Mark.

Cute faces, puppy faces.

This sounds kind of crazy, but here's the thing. I would say touch points with a bureau. Well first of all, I do think this is worth mentioning. I know speakers out there who have not had great experiences with bureaus. I get it because again it's not right or wrong. It's just a little bit of does it fit with your business model and those kind of things. But being in this industry for as long as I have, I think it is crazy. Honestly. That is speaking is your full time business and you're not as busy as you want to be those two things then I think it's crazy to not have a bureau that you like and trust in your egg basket. At the end of the day like I think about your egg basket business. As a speaker you will always sell yourself better than any one. Period. Then you might have enough money or enough ambition to hire a a personal agent who's like out there beating the pavement on sales outbound calls for you, that person might be next. So they're another big egg in your basket. Right? But the way I look at bureaus is find a bureau that you like and trust and you can try to develop a relationship with because those are small eggs in your basket. And here's how it works. I mean not every bureau you'd want to investigate to make sure that kind of what the rules and regulations are. But many bureaus, there's no strings attached. And let me speak specifically for mine to give the example I might put you, both of you gentlemen and multiple proposals and there's just simply no strings attached. You haven't signed a contract with me. I'm not signing a con. I'm not your agent. I'm not signing anything. Neither are you. But the cool thing Is is I'm out there doing free marketing for you until I bring you that book of business. So I could be out there marketing you over and over and putting you in multiple proposals over and over and over again. And you're not paying me one dime until I say, here you go. Here's a $20,000 gig or a $10,000 gig, whatever your fee is, that's when the bureau gets paid, when I'm bringing you business on the silver platter. So to me, having a bureau in your egg basket, one that you like and trust and have some relationship with, is kind of silly because you guys know how much marketing costs, and I'm doing it for free until I bring you business. So then pay me once I've done that. But beyond that, it just seems like a really smart thing, so I think that's worth mentioning. And then how do. How do you become a favorite or whatnot? There's a. Okay, are you ready? Can I be rude?

Please, please.

There's a fine line between staying in front of us and then driving me crazy. Us crazy. I will give you a real life example with no names. I have got and I. And you know what? Most of us work off of some kind of a CRM system that helps keep our brains organized or some kind of a scheduling system that we think, ah, let's touch base with that client or whatnot. And so I have speakers that do a really, really beautiful job of maybe once a quarter or maybe if they've done, I don't know, like they know something a little bit about me or my kids or that I'm a Chiefs fan or a KU fan. So, like, I get a lot of speakers pinging me when the Chiefs won the super bowl and a lot of speakers pinging me when KU Jayhawks just won. Right. That's a good touch point for them. I get it. I'm in sales. I do the same thing. But they're relevantly reaching out to me, not with a 14 scroll email telling me what all they've done. And here's their testimonials and who they. They've spoken to. You know, all of this stuff. But it's. It's more of just a relationship touch point. And what that does usually for me is it's like, oh, yeah, I need to remember him. So I would say that is so beautifully appropriate, and I would welcome that any day of the week. Because at the end of the day, there are tons of speakers out there. And because we do not manage anyone exclusively, I need reminded of you sometimes I really do, hands down. The flip side of that is I have a speaker who sends me a daily quote every day. And we're now on week, I don't know, six and I feel really embarrassed to go in and block him on, you know, like, I don't want to block him on my email, but it's like, this is not working and I have to be very transparent. I delete the email I don't even read. I read the quote the first week and I responded a couple of times going, oh my gosh, this is so cool. You know, I appreciate her thanks for the inspiration or such a true quote or whatever. And now I delete them every single time they come to my inbox. So those are two very real examples. I would say to stay in front of us is important. And then also doing it in an appropriate way, I have. Sometimes I'll just have a speaker dash me a text and say, hey, I just got done speaking for an ag organization. If you have any ag clients that you think I might be a good fit for, here's what I did. They're helping me connect dots. One of my favorite things is learning something about a speaker that's usually not part of their content or marketing or sizzle reel. You know, learning that, hey, you know, sometimes it's a small ancillary things that you learn about somebody that might make me think, oh gosh, I could put them in this, this proposal. Get to know a bureau personally the best you can. And sometimes that's easier said than done, dear.

For some people, there may be some fear and Aaron, ready for this? Aaron, trepidation regarding Wheaties. I use big words. It's going for a dictionary right now.

I gotta go look it up.

Hold on.

And trepidation about working with bureaus because for a new and emerging speaker, they may hear, well, they want to lock you into a contract, an exclusive agreement. And there's fear that some bureaus may want to lock them in and they'll miss additional opportunities. Is that a real fear? And how can you help our listeners allay their fears about this concern?

You know, I do think it could be a real concern depending on what your current business model is or what you're trying to build in your own business. When you are looking at a bureau or reaching out, I think it's important to ask those kind of questions, like, do we have to sign a contract? Am I going to be put on your website? I can tell you it's for us, for my bureau in particular. It's really not very complicated because I don't want to manage you. And one point I do want to make because again you hear of, you hear of speakers who have really built their career and rely 80% on bureaus for their business. And then you have another speaker, you know, right down in the same room who might say, I've worked with the bureau two or three times and I've never had anything from, I've never had one book of business. I think what's important to understand with our bureau and most like non exclusive bureaus. So we don't, I don't manage any speakers at all. Some bureaus have a management side and a non management side to their big roof. I am 100% non management. So I'm caught. I love that actually because I'm, I'm always out there looking for new and fresh ideas to pitch to our clients. The speakers who feel. I find when I listen to the speakers who are most frustrated with the bureau is they'll say, well you know what, I signed up with this bureau and they never ever booked me. And I guess what it's important to understand is, is that I'm not your specific age. You know, I'm not now your agent because you have hooked up with a bureau just because you and I have a conversation. I like what I see. I've put you in a proposal. So now you're technically in our back end salesforce system. I'm not your agent. I'm not out cold calling for you every day. Specifically to Mark Brown. I'm thinking of Mark Brown when I think, oh this client is needing these specs, oh he would be a perfect fit. So I keep think of it as I continue to grow my library of speakers and I'm using that library mind to go, oh, that one, that one, that one. Which is why thus maybe staying in contact with us once a quarter, couple times a quarter, pinging when the time is right helps keep you fresh in my library. But I think speakers get most frustrated with bureau's when they say, you know, hey, I've been hooked up with this bureau for a while and they've never once booked me. That's frustrating. But for me my response would be I just haven't had the right match. So it's not that I don't like you, it's not that, I mean I've got some speakers, I just, I mean, gosh, if I could work with them day and night, I would because I just love them. I, I believe in their stuff. They're wonderful to work with, but I just, like, in the last few months, I haven't had the right opportunity and I can't put a square peg in a round hole. And I won't. I don't want to set you up for failure by doing that. I hope that's helpful, Mark.

Does that answer your question? Definitely. I do have one in the weeds question. I don't want to go too deep in the weeds, but I'm thinking of the new and emerging speakers who are hearing bureaus could be helpful. And it's two very common terms. It is the, the soft hold and the firm hold. When they want to book a date because their name is in eight different bureaus. And someone says, oh, I got an idea for you. I'm going to give you a soft hold. And they hear the word soft hold for the first time and they go, what is this?

What is this?

Yeah, so just real quickly, okay, this.

Is such a fun topic. So. And we rely on this a lot. And again, every bureau works a little different on how they do things. But I personally will not send a proposal out to my client until I have a hold on your account. Okay. Basically what that means is I'm doing some back work initially, you know, when I learn those specs and I'm sending out four or five, six ideas that I feel like are really good, nailing it on the head prospects for that event. I contact you before I put you in that proposal, and I'll say, hey, Mark, are you available on March 22? My client is ABC and the event is on September 22. Are you available? And then you say to me, yes, I'm available. I say, are you available? And will you please put a soft or pencil hold on your calendar for me? So you say, yes, I will or no, I won't, or you're a second hold. And let's kind of talk about what that means. So it's first come, first serve is kind of how I see it. Again, not right or wrong, but this is like mentally how I hope it's being handled from a speaker perspective. And that is, is that like if a bureau contacts you for September 22nd and no one else has contacted you, then I would see myself as a first soft hold on your calendar. And then let's say just by craziness, five days later, another bureau contacts you and says, are you available on September 22nd for this ABC event in Nashville? Well, here's what's really crazy is we could both likely work. Both bureaus are after the same Client because clients use multiple bureaus. I have one client, you guys, that vets to 14 bureaus. He lets you know that coming out the chute. Wow. So you have to always understand we're in a competitive environment almost always. As much as I wish, even the clients I love and just feel so near and dear to and know their birthdays and their kids birthday, like that type of relationship. I'm still not the only bureau that they're potentially vetting to. So please understand that from a speaker perspective. So back to the holds is like if another bureau comes in for the same date but two weeks later, then that bureau should be told, yes, I'm available, currently available, because you're not booked, but you are a second hold, and so on and so forth. Maybe bureau number three comes in, yes, I'm available, but you're a third hold. So in my proposal to my client, if I have a second hold, I note that to my client in the notes just so they know, hey, there's somebody bumped in front of us. So if you, if this is your die hard, you love them person, then you need to get off the toilet and let's go. Because they've got, they've got somebody in front of them, we've got somebody in front of us. And I have to give that kind of the courtesy in the industry is I have to give that client a 24 hour notice to either book or release you. It's one of those things where I need to rely on you as a speaker that you're keeping your availability for me. If a client contacts you and is ready to move forward with that booking, I just need you to let me know and let me give my client a 24 hour notice. And if my client won't get off the toilet, then I don't ever want you to lose that business opportunity. So I need to get you released so we don't lose a date.

I'm glad you said that because I know people saying, well, what if I get, get a more firm offer for the same date? I'm kind of holding for Darren, but Diaz, because I want to go now. I don't want to upset somebody else. And what's the right, what's the professional way to approach.

Yeah, just think of it in the pecking order. Right. You were my first hold. Two hours later another bureau called me. So that's a second hold. Thirty minutes later another bureau called me. That's a third hold. It's not that complicated. But I'll tell you what it does require. It does require a speaker to stay.

Organized and have integrity.

Yes, absolutely.

That's a big piece. Yeah, because you never know. I didn't tell you. Oh, I forgot. I'm so sorry, Nia. That has never happened before, right, Nia? It has never happened to you.

We'll make that a podcast too.

That really does sound interesting.

Final question for emerging presenters who want to get ready to work with a bureau. What's too soon? Or what does a speaker have to have in place before they should ever consider reaching out to any bureau?

This is so easy. And we'll just circle back to the top of the podcast on the tools of the trade, the sizzle reel, the topics, the descriptions, desirable outcomes, bio and high res headshot. When you have those tools put together, that is helpful. If your website is still 50% in development, that's okay. I mean, you need to have a website. But really, those tools of the trade, I cannot sell you without them. Because remember, if I put you in there without some of those pieces, I've got a speaker I personally know very well. He has a horrifically terrible sizzle reel. And so I can't sell him. I have to sell him by name. He's kind of a local Kansas woohoo sports dude and all that. So people that are around here know him by name. Like, oh yeah, I know him. So they want to book him based on name, but I can't send him anywhere else because he doesn't have the tools of the trade. If I put him in that proposal, he looks subpar.

Is there a certain fee level that someone needs to be at before your bureau would even consider them?

I would say in the short, no. There are bureaus out there that like, want to see a speaker at 10k or higher. I book $5,000 speakers. I mean, I love this. I mean, I have to pay my bills and I have to pay my team. So I can't. I have to have enough money in there to make that happen and to make you money. But you know, if I've got a client who has 5,6000 bucks to spend, and I've got speakers that I know of that are really good at that level, I'll do my very best to make it happen. And you know, at the end of the day, you treat the client the exact same, Whether it's a $5,000 speaker or 55, no one's better or worse. They're having an event and they want an amazing one. So we want. Our job is to make it happen.

I recommend one more thing. A Speaker needs to have. How about a speech? I'm just kidding.

That would be helpful. That would be helpful.

Last question. What advice would you give somebody who truly cares about their message and wants to be unforgettable?

You know, I would say never give up your passion for it and never give up your purpose of where you want to be. You know, I always feel like if your passion and purpose are aligned, the universe wildly leads you in the right direction. And it may mean that you're not getting paid as much as you want to be getting paid. It may lead you to an audience who doesn't have the kind of budget. But maybe that audience created spin opportunity for you or additional events. Or maybe it created connections in ways that you didn't know. So, you know, I would just say that if you, if, if you love what you do, this job just finds its ways and just believe in integrity and doing the right thing, creating the right relationships and being real with those relationships. I'm. Nothing can break you faster in this industry than not just this industry, really anything in life and just making the wrong choices and being too selfish and greedy. So I just think that collaboration, connecting with the right people, serving and loving, you're just not going to go wrong. Dennis Biz. It's a blast.

All right. So, Mark Brown, what did we have for keepers?

Well, I have a few. I know you have a few as well. It's kind of cool though. I like this. A bureau is many ways like a real estate agency. You give us the specs and we'll find the right match for you. You need good marketing tools besides your speech, a website, a sizzle reel, your programs and outcomes, and of course a good one sheet to help the agent sell you. In many ways, a bureau is also like a matchmaker to find the right fit for every presenter and they know how to ask the right questions in terms of what we offer. A keynoter leads their thoughts and inspires them. A trainer gives tangible takeaways that can be immediately implemented. An amazing keynote will inspire the audience and the audience please. And the client shines. Let's see. Sizzle reel. It's wise to change your sizzle reel every four to five years. And the key is this. Avoid showing dates and seasonal dated material on your sizzle reel. It will not go well for you. Key advice, Respond to bureau correspondence in immediately. And if you're brand new and you have never worked with a bureau, it's wise to have a bureau in your egg basket as a tool. You want to stay in front of them but you don't want to stay annoying. And bureau's like when you share something about yourself that audiences do not hear in your presentations.

Hmm.

Mark, she also said at the beginning, whether it's training or keynoting, she said speaking has a level of entertainment. We're still entertainers when it comes right down to it. And she also said your look and your energy are important. Our look on stage, do we look professional? How do we look? Do we come across as professional? Do we come across as that authority? I know, Mark, I talked about it before when you were off. I said look, I know I don't know fashion. I get a coach. I have somebody tell me this jacket goes with this shirt. But I know that some people are not aware how they look on stage. But to a bureau it matters because it's how they sell you. And the more professional you look, the easier it is to sell you looking like that. Expert DSR rank. Thanks for your time. Thanks for helping us, helping us serve our audience. Thanks really for being part of it. We know you got to run. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Have an awesome day and for those of you listening, we'll see you next week.

Awesome. It's been a pleasure. Have a good one, guys.

So great, great insights from inside the mind of a bureau.

We'll see you next week.

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