Ep. 144 Using Multiple Coaches with Manley Feinberg II

Hey there, Mark Brown. There is nothing like seeing someone who comes to one of your events and then, boom, surpasses your mentors. Like it is a thrill. Thrill. Mark, your thoughts?

Yeah. You know, my mentor told me, I want you to surpass me. Well, our guest today has done that in double, triple time. I can't wait for our friends to meet the inimitable, Manly Feinberg ii.

Let's do this.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas. Let's dive right in.

So, Mark, I think our first introduction was one at one of our coaching camps. It was Craig and me leading it, and this young whippersnapper comes in. I don't think I've ever said whippersnapper on our podcast. Comes in, and he was just passionate. And, Mark, your words come to mind. Oh, Manley, we have some work to do. Manly, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you. I'm honored to be with you guys. Thank you both. That was really kind to say that I've surpassed you all, but that's not true, so. But thanks for being kind, and I don't see that that way at all. But I appreciate you saying that you're out there.

I think you've climbed higher, though, man. I think you've climbed higher than we have.

Maybe physically. Yes.

It's an early pun, Darren. The audience doesn't understand that yet. We're going to get there, but when we do get there, go. Oh, another bad Mark Brown pun. Oh, my gosh. So, Darren, lead us, my friend.

Yeah. So, Manley, just take us back to the very beginning, just because we were a little part of your journey and your success, and take us back to. Why did you decide speaking was the thing for Manley?

Oh, that's a great question. And you all are a huge part of my success, by the way, and still are, which we got to come back to that continuous improvement. So, okay, so a quick version is in 95. I did my first paid speech. It was sort of an accident. I didn't know what I was doing. And my boss asked me to talk about my climbing trips, and he said, man, your photography is really great. And I happened to be in the outdoor retail industry. Basically, I think rei, private version of that kind of store called Hoopers Paducah, Kentucky was the general manager. And I went to clock out to do my slide presentation for our guest because my boss said, why don't we invite our customers, you know, and, and he's like, you should get paid for that. Stay clocked in. Like really? You pay me to talk about climbing. So I showed my slides and basically just talked about my trips. I had a Rotary club member come up and asked me to speak at the Rotary Club after that event and a librarian who was worked at elementary school. And she said, I have. Could you do six 30 minute presentations for kids and I'll pay you? And I was like, you'll pay me? And she said, yeah. She said, I only have $150. And I was like, oh my God. I told my boss to have off like next Tuesday and she's gonna pay me 150 lots more than I pay you all week. You should go. So that was my first two paid speaking events. The Rotary Club one was free. They still are. So. And then you fast forward 2000. I didn't even know what speaking was. 2001 I got recruited by Build a Bear workshop to come move from Kentucky up to St. Louis and lead primarily focus on business systems. Our first, my first many years there. I went to, my first conference was a business systems software conference. Ironically, the keynote speaker was an climber and he was, he was a Canadian. His name is Jamie. I always want to say Jamie French. Our friend Jamie French. Jamie, I'll think of his name in a minute. He's pretty big. A big, you know, very accomplished speaker in Canada. Mike Rayburn knows him. I can't remember his last name. I'll think of it. Anyway, he's on the keynote stage and I look, turn over to my boss and I was like, that's what I really want to do. And he said, oh, okay, I forgot this moment. So fast forward another five years or so. And he's like maybe three or four years. And he's like, I want you to take on more people. And he said, you're really good at business systems and you're actually brilliant at it. And he said, you're even better at inspiring and developing people and we want you to lead more people. And I said no, specifically it was the service desk help desk team. And I love that team, the great team. But who wants to be in charge of the team that everybody calls when everything's wrong, right? So I said no. So he said, do you remember that moment? We were in Quebec, in Montreal, that is that speaker. You leaned over to me and said, that's what I really want to do as a keynote speaker. And I was like, yeah, I kind of remember that. And he said, here's your chance. He said, I'm going to give you a team. You can give them a keynote on Tuesday, a workshop on Wednesday, a seminar on Thursday, coach them on Friday. I'll even give you a budget for books. I was like, okay. And so anyway, talk me into it. Ironically, one of the first conferences I went to and that more niche focus within it being service management and taking care of people and operations. That conference led me to see a guy named Jason Young out of Dallas. He's a Southwest, he was a Southwest Air Airlines trainer. He's full. Been a full time speaker for a long time. Wrote a great book called Culture Topia. Not that involved in nsa, but he has been at times a really good guy. So I saw him do this keynote and it just clicked. This is in. This is November 8th of 2010, actually. And I was like, I want to. That's what I'm supposed to do. And it was like this divine, like lightning struck me and you know how fired up and excited I get about things. And I walked up to the guy and I was like, I must have been like, you saw me on fire. That must have been like times 10. I've just realized I'm supposed to be a keynote speaker. And he's like, I remember he physically took like three steps back. He goes, he goes, wow. He said, man, I got. I have like two or three people come up to me after every speech. You know, people say, oh, I heard speakers make a lot of money or it seems glamorous or, you know, I'm looking to retire and I want to do something with my life. And he said, but man, every once in a while somebody comes up to me and it's just like, really on fire. He's like, I really want to. I feel compelled to help you. He said, do you have 30 minutes on your open. On your schedule this afternoon? I said, whatever breakout I was going to, it's consider my schedule open. He said, okay, cool. Meet me in the lobby. I'll give you 30 minutes. So we sat down in the lobby of the Hotel InterContinental, Miami, Florida, November 8, 2000.

We always remember those moments.

Oh, you do? Yes, sir. Exactly. And specificity builds credibility.

I love it.

He. He comes in and we sit down there for 30 minutes. And then next thing you know, three hours had gone by and he, he basically concluded that conversation with three takeaways. First of all, he kind of explained the basics of the speaking business, how it works, what kind of money potentially make even in a, you know, just doing pretty well. And they said, number one, I want you to go find a Toastmasters Club. And I said, okay, I heard of it, my sister went to it. And he's like, go find a ToastMasters club. Number two, I want you to start going, find, go to your NSA local chapter, get involved in nsa. Number three, start reading as many books as you can on speaking and the business of speaking. And I was like, there are books on speaking? I heard say that he goes, of course. And this is the funny thing about that is still this day, on average I buy like a book almost every week or every 10 days on Amazon. And I had no clue there were books on professional speaking. I really didn't know much about the industry. You know, I had seen that first keynote speaker in 2001. But I really don't tell anybody. We're on a podcast, right? Don't tell anybody. But when I decided to be a full time speaker in that moment, I wasn't really even aware of Tony Robbins. I'd heard his name, but I had no idea what he was about or I mean, so I didn't even had no clue what I was doing other than ironically, I had been speaking. So let me Another little interesting thing is from 95 up until 2010, I had been speaking about two to four times a year, specifically around my climbing stories. And then inside of Build a Bear, I started doing more and more speaking, more presentations, and then towards the end of my career there, I ended up doing our leadership and development talent. Not talent, but leadership and development culture classes with another colleague. One of my good friends and colleagues stepped out, went to another organization and I offered to backfill her position. She was sitting in hr, but I kept my executive position and I volunteered to lead these classes until they found somebody to backfill that spot. And I had a really good relationship with hr and she was like, oh, I'd love that. It's a crazy idea. Who in, who in it has ever led our culture and leadership classes? You know, not no one. So that's a great idea. So I did that for a little while and that was around 2010. And then I, by 2011, you know, you get involved and I was in it. I was in my first Toastmasters NSA meeting within 30 days of him telling me that, you know, within three days I was ordering books on Amazon. I still have the first two. I remember which ones. I bought one of my first events, Darren had come in town, did a nsa. I think I was involved by then. Maybe. Maybe that was about. Okay, that's about a year later, fall of 2011, I got involved in NSA chapter. Scott Ginsburg had been president, and Doug Devitry was president. He's like, hey, you're here at every meeting. You're enthusiastic, and you want to help out on the board. And, you know, I was, like, flattered. I said, yeah, of course. And so anyway, next thing, I'm helping out, I guess, with events, and Darren comes in town and did we used to do that? Try to do these double headers? We did it for Craig and Ed and him as well. I don't know why we didn't get you in town. Bark. But do an NSA meeting and also do a Toastmasters event. And then for Ed, I pulled off the triple for him. We got a TedX speech for him and NSA meeting and a Toastmasters event, of course. And I think that when he and I did a Toastmasters event, like a half day workshop together on storytelling. So by then, I think it was about two years into my career and been full time. So 2011, I got my first NSA mentor, Carol Weissman, out of our chapter. She said, whatever you do, don't quit your day job. And I think that's probably because of the reality of how hard this business is. And number two, she'd see me speak, she was like, no. She said, you're really good, but you're not great yet. And. But keep coming to Toastmasters. Keep coming to nsa, and you'll. You will become great. So I met you and I said, man, I've got a showcase I'm in in December. And I. I got the. I got to work on my story. What should I do? Your timing's perfect. My. My friend and colleague Craig Valentine and I are doing a storytelling boot camp in Las Vegas, and I would. I would strongly encourage you to consider it. So I said, all right, I'm in. Yeah, I came out. And that's worked up with you guys on my story. Started jumping off stuff and telling stories, and so. So jump. Speaking of jumping off stuff and last part of that little story is, so my mentor says, don't quit your day job. This is early 2011. I take on more and more and more speaking roles inside the organization. I get promoted. Here's something I wanted to tell people that are listening to this who are not Maybe full time or maybe you don't even know if you're ever going to go full time as a professional speaker. I start when I got really serious about my skill set. Because in anything in life, whether it's it or business or speaking, what's worked well for me is here's the little three step formula. Number one, find out who the best in the world are at it. Get as close as you possibly can to them. Step two, and then number three, which is the hardest part is do what they tell you to do. It's actually pretty simple, but it's really hard. Yeah, simple can be hard, right? Like hitting a baseball. I used to use that example. Pick up the stick, hit the ball. That's really simple, but it's not easy. All right. In a professional environment. So anyway, I jumped off. She said, don't quit your day job. By the time, by the time I fall. By the time I met you and Craig in that room, matter of fact, one of the things I did there was you all entered Craig and you got a guy over. He at the time was working for Fred Pryor career track. And, and you specifically, I said something to you all that I was interested in trying to do that route, go out on the seminar circuit and they're like, well we got a buddy who can help you get in that world if you want to. So he came out, had, we had lunch together during your boot camp. And then Guy introduced me to career tracker Fred Pryor helped me get in there. And then I ended up going and doing that and winning a rookie of the year award, which is kind of fun. Apparently it's a big deal. So I jumped off the cliff. So she says, don't quit your day job. By the fall of 2011, I was like, I learned so much so fast studying and immersing myself with you all. In addition with the NSA chapter, the combo was just mind blowing. So it didn't take long before I had a bigger, a much bigger list. I knew what I needed to do and that exceeded the amount of time I had to do it. And I knew how badly I wanted to do it. And as soon as Guy helped me get the Fred Pryor gig in December 2011, I got certified. I could turn in my, I literally turned in my 30 day notice the Monday after I got back from the Fred Pryor certification class. That was that. So that started off 2012 with no full time job. Everybody thinks that since I was involved in Build a Bear I must be like self trust funded. But the truth is the truth is, I used my home equity loan. Wow. So this. I just want to address excuses. I know everybody listening to this, whether you're a professional or you're thinking about becoming a pro, you're like, there's some excuse you probably have in your mind around money or whatever. And there's two times in my career. We can talk about this second time later if we want to about the pandemic. Two times in my career, I've put everything on the line. Like, literally, if it didn't work, I'm going bankrupt. No joke. And that just happened again during the pandemic. I got my ass handed to me in this pandemic massively. You all I know did a little better than me because you had virtual thing going already. I did not. I got crushed. Anyway, we can talk about that more, but. So here I am, though. But I'm back on top, man. You all come in a good day. I'm better than. This is my best day ever in my entire life right here, right now.

Nice.

Well, Darren, first bad joke for the day that we understand. So you jumped off the cliff, but you didn't fall in the fall.

That's right. I fallen many times, but not in the fall.

You left in the fall. You jumped off. And I know my second reference to heights and cliffs. We gotta give our audience some clarification why I keep mentioning heights and cliffs. Give us a cliff notes. Oh, my gosh.

I didn't plan that. You didn't mean that.

I did not plan that. Give us the. I did not plan that. Manly. Give us the cliff notes. Why I keep mentioning cliffs and heights and fall real quick.

So what I speak about is my life perspective is a little unique. I've spent 30 years of my life climbing mountains around the world. 30 years of my life getting my wife to stay married to me and raising two kids. And 30 years of mine. Share. Mark and Sue, Sharon Brock keep telling me they're like, that's your biggest accomplishment. Like, you should lead with that. You know, forget about all this other stuff. And then the third thing that people find fascinating or want to hear more about is that I've been involved in several businesses that have helped grow significantly as part of. Not me alone, of course, as part of a big team, one of which is build a bear workshop that I mentioned. I was there for 11 years and we grew from 42 stores to 447. I think it was from. I think we had 42 million the first year I was not there. 42 stores, 54 million and then about 104. I'm getting my numbers messed up. 450 million, I think was a 454. Something like that. So about a half a billion went public. Fortune 100 best companies to work for four years in a row when I was there. Another seven when I left. But I don't take any credit for the years I wasn't there. So I thought it was all very kind of me.

They kept going.

Yeah, no, they didn't need me there full time to make it happen. It was a strong culture globally by that time.

So so many questions come up. But I want to go backwards in time to the event where we had coached you. And I think you may not consider this, for you a defining moment, but I think when someone I know, we were brutal in coaching you. We saw that you had so much potential. You're so positive, you're so passionate and you can't not see that when you're around you. I just, I sit up straighter when I'm around. Manly. Seriously. But how did you process the fact that when we looked at what you did, we saw the potential, but we realized you had a lot of work to do because I think some people that might just knock them off track.

The ego is a bit. Choosing a little bit of pseudo Kentucky English. The problem is here's, here's why, here's why I was able to receive that. Well, it's, it's, you know, people say you have it's thick skin for this business. And it's so true. Especially I tell you what, you all are easy compared to doing public seminars for Brett Prior.

Oh, wow.

Oh God. Not that, you know, not the training and all that. Although you know, going through the certification process can be brutal. But get in a room with people who like when I show up, when somebody shows up, one of Yalls events, they want to be there. And most of them have paid out of their own pocket. Right. You're in a room, we call them prisoners, right. They, you know, a room full of people want to be there. They've been sent there exactly by their boss to fix it. You're supposed to fix them. There's some skill set in which they are deficient. You've got six hours they didn't pay for themselves. They don't want to be there. They don't get the own, your own development mindset, you know. And then at like noon, I'm trying to pitch them, you know, 2000, you know, anywhere from $200 to $2000 worth of resources. And try and get them to invest in their own. In their own future and. And not just wait on their boss to do it. Which is all stuff that I truly believe and had done and been successful. But anyway, here's why I was able to receive that primarily. My first mentor and hero in the world is my older brother, Bill Ransdell. He was. He's my half brother. I only have two half brothers, two half sisters, so they're fully brothers and sisters to me. We share our mother together because people always wonder what was his last name? Because he was an NFL quarterback. He was never an everyday player, but he was successful in the NFL for three and a half years. He played for the Jets, Tampa Bay Buccaneers under Vinny Testaverde, and they played for the Indianapolis Colts. And he was a star SEC passing quarterback before the Tom Brady, like, pass all the time kind of approach. Was really popular. He. He was a really strong passing quarterback. Anyway, nine years older than me. You grew up in a shadow of someone. It really impacts you and influences you. And I saw two or three. Three things specifically with him. He was very clear on his goals and he always wrote things down. He had read Psycho Cybernetics, you know, one of the. Mike Maltz's book on visualizing and, you know, thinking through things. He just was very into using. What I saw him do is take every tool he could get, whether it was a book or a person or a Bible or whatever, everything he could possibly grasp to help him accomplish that goal. And then the second thing I saw him do consistently his whole career was he was surrounded by coaches. So when I used to embed myself and hang out with this college football team and his professional friends as well, I would. I remember coming up to, like, when I was a little boy, I'd meet his. He'd like, I. When he got to the University of Kentucky, when I first went up for spring break, we'd go around and meet everybody. He's like. I was like, who's this? This is your coach. He's like, oh, that's. Well, he's not the head coach. This is. He's an offensive coordinator. Okay, how you doing, coach? And he's like, oh, let's come in here. And no, this is Jim. I'm like, he's coach. I was like, I thought I met your coach. He's like, no, he. He's a quarterback coach. Like, okay. And he's like, this guy's my passing coach. He specifically helps me with passing. I was like, okay, cool. Who's this? This is My nutrition person, like, who's this? And he's like, this is my strength coach. Like, who's this? This is my aerobic, like this guy, this person, trainer, works on aerobic capacity for us. So I'm like, in 10 minutes, I meet 10 different people. So the way I saw it was like the strongest, best, fastest, baddest best in the world at what they do. All are surrounded by and they're humble and they're constantly doing another thing. The third thing he did was watch film all the time, right. I've got. I have thousands and thousands of hours of audio and a lot of video recorded of myself and I. My process is to iteratively, obsessively listen back, transcribe my keynotes and improve things. Right. But I saw him being very coachable. That was something I learned from him very early on. So when you all laid it on me, I was like, okay, it's not fun to hear, but this is exactly what I need. I knew it's what I needed to hear and wanted to hear because I knew where I wanted to go, which was basically just be able to make a living doing what I felt like I was compelled and called to do in the moment. I saw the guy, Jason Young at the keynote.

And out of curiosity, tell me quickly the story of when you knew it was time to leave being a contract trainer and going full time. Manly keynote.

Oh, that's a good question too. Yeah. Because that was. That's something Ed was really. Craig and Ed were very helpful with. Ed Tate and Craig Valentine were like, you know, both of them had done it and said. They both said to me, don't especially. Ed was really adamant, like, do not try to get out in 12 months if you can. 24 max. He's like 18 months or so. You're going to get so burned out from the travel. It's so intense. The pay is pretty, pretty slim and most days it's quite grim unless you can really do some back of the room resources with people. So he really pushed on me and I'd heard that from a lot of people. Like, don't get bogged down in it, because you can. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. I know people who just. That's what they do, right? And that's fine. But since I had a clear vision of what I wanted to do, which was specifically be do keynoting and workshops and experiences around my content, so I take my climbing lessons and my business lessons and merge them and reverse engineered how to make people perform at A higher level. How to create teams very quickly, how to get people to step up and get more engaged in their life and be more focused and. And then also how to not kill yourself in your climbing or doing something dangerous. I do some safety work. It's an area I need to explore more. To answer your question.

So you, you. How did you know it was time?

Oh, yeah. Yes. Oh, great. So, yeah, Ed said, don't, you know, don't stay along. So I just, I got burned out pretty quick. But what happened was a relation. This, this is a good. This is a good answer. I think that will help people see one path into making it. And you. You talked about this in your original course. I bought around. Get paid to speak by next week. If you're coming out of a corporate or whatever, if you're coming out of some background where you have an association or some experience that you already have because your professional career. So in my case, I was an IT professional, even though I was a business guy hiding in it, that's where I played. So this particular, ironically, the association where I saw Jason Young do the keynote was where I had the most leverage because I had expertise and depth in that realm. So I was actually getting a certification within that realm as a Director of Service Management. And I met a gal at one of the instructors and I said, hey, I'm thinking about going, don't tell anybody. I'm trying to become a professional speaker. And she's like, well, you should just put in a. Submit a breakout proposal for the conference, the big conference for hdi. And I said, okay, I put it in. And so I ended up doing one of my first breakouts at hdi. HDI is a really big association. Those listening, there's associations are 100 people, some are thousands. And in this case, it's a big association with a big conference, about 2,500 people. And then they have a training development arm where they do public seminars and training. And they do a lot of other events too. They have chapter events. It's a really strong. So I got really deeply embedded in that and I love the people in that association. Phil Gerbishak of a colleague of ours, he's also very involved in hdi. So I ended up becoming a faculty member for hdi. So what that means is basically you do contract training for them and you sit in on standards and advisory boards and stuff. It's pretty good, pretty cool gig, and it paid a lot better than the career track. So that was my bridge. So as soon as I nailed down The HDI and I went through their process and training, which was really cool because it was totally different. Total opposite of Fred Pryor, much more facilitation style training. Instead of like seminar, we're going to just throw a bunch at you that let me turn in my notice at Fred Pryor and focus on HDI for a little while and that also I cycled out of that when less than 18 months as well. So I did 18 months with Fred prior career track in another 18 months or two years or so with HDI as a faculty member. Then I continued to speak for hdi and then eventually my goal there was to be on the keynote stage that I saw Jason Young on Waldo and some of our other friends. And I think Tim has been there as well. Anyway, that was like, that's, that's where I had this realization. Like, because I knew all the meeting planner and everybody involved, I was like my shortest path to the big keynote stages in this association I already have leverage in. So to summarize, get involved more in your association if you're a full time, you know, career person still right now, trying to start doing, speaking within that because you're more likely to relate to the people and, you know, get some traction and, and from there, somebody saw me, you know, that starts to spread. If you do a good job, you know, if you do a good job on stage, which is where you all come in, then that's, that takes care of a lot of it. So I think a lot of people don't really. I don't know many colleagues. Honestly. I have like five or ten friends that I can count. I can count on two hands the number of friends I know that are as obsessive about consistently constantly developing their skill set, which specifically, I mean, how good are you on stage? How good are your stories? How good? That's why I keep coming back to you guys. And I will too. I'm gonna. By the way, I was gonna reach out to you and talk about. I think I've got one in person thing in the bank if you still do it. I need to get out this year to work with you guys because it's just been too long. It's never gonna, that's never gonna stop. I mean, just like my brother never stopped offseason. A professional athlete is working on their game. They're not screwing around. I mean, they're having some fun, but they're working on their game. They don't ever get to a point where they're like, oh, I'm good. I'M a Cardinals fan, you know, big Cardinals fans. We got this year. We got Yadir Molina sitting behind the plate 20 plus years. Adam Wainwright, 20 plus years. And Albert Pujol's back with us 22 years. Those guys, the reason they're still playing at 20 plus years is because they never made it. They are constantly working on their, their game. So anyway, I'm fired up by you guys.

Manly, you just set me up for a question. I'm going to yank wheel a little bit. But you said a nugget for me was these guys go to work in the off season and they know when the off season is going to be. You know, season starts, season ends and then we all get an off season we didn't plan for two years ago.

No doubt.

Now the work you had done before, how did that help you for that off season in 2020?

Oh, that's a great question. There's. Well, first of all, there's no. And this is maybe partly because I worked hard, but partly just timing. I think people who might have. If you just started your speaking business at the beginning of the pandemic, I know a few people that did this and that would be hard. So my hard work in creating a product, in this case a speech that's this referable that I get, I get a lot of all my business up till 2020 was spin off, but 95% of my business was all spinoff business. I do a pretty crappy job. Associate media.

Can you explain that just for people who aren't familiar what spin off business means?

Spin off business is what we use that phrase refer to. You're at the speech, you do a good job. Somebody comes up to you afterwards and says, hey, I've got a meeting. I'm part of a committee where I'm in this association and I think you might be a good fit for our association. People only do that if you're good. Right. And I want to be humble, but I'm proud that I worked hard. You've got to be really good for that to happen.

Absolutely.

But it just made sense to me. It's like at Build a Bear, we focused on the experience we created for people and making sure we had a solid. The physical product was good. My brother, for him it was his product was how good he could pass the ball. Specifically, he drilled that down to like literally this is what he needs to do well. And when I asked everybody in NSA that I met and I said, how do you become great and be a great high paid keynote speaker they said, you gotta be great storytelling. I said, okay, so who do you go to to become great storytelling? And they started. I heard names started coming up that some mentioned more than others. Patricia, Fred. But as an example, right. Always comes up in the conversation. You're all's names coming up in the conversation. And some other colleagues and friends of ours. So there's a short. It was a short list. It was less than 10. So I kind of got a sense real quick. And I kept asking, I kept polling. I'm like, okay. And especially, like, somebody would introduce me. Oh, this is Chef Eichen. And he's like, a big deal. Yeah, Chef. Hey, Chef, how are you? Who do you work with on your speech? He's like, oh, that's the thing. I appreciate you asked that. That's kind of been. My approach is just be obsessive about that. So. Because I. To answer your question, Mark, I hope that answered it. Because I had worked so hard on my product and I'd worked so hard on building my business, and I'd worked so hard on putting hours in and boot camp, I would call it. Like when I met Lois Kramer, she's like, do you realize after a year with Fred Pryor and Career track, you already have more hours on the platform than most people I know. They're NSA members that have been there for 10 years or more because you're doing like 60, 70, 80, 100 hours a month on the platform. And so, like, in a good month, I might do two to five hours now. So how fast you get better? So much faster when you're in that den of wolves. It's pretty challenging environment. But it, No, I can just tell people still is. There's no, I don't think there's any possible way to go faster and learn more and get your stage exactly well.

Real quickly and just to dig a little bit deeper. When this off season hit you, did that totally throw you off? I mean, all the hard work you put in come to nothing. Or were you still able to navigate the dry season because of all the investment, time, effort, contact, relationships?

Yes. How did you do?

What are you doing now to help our listeners who are saying, I don't know what to do in this season.

I think that's interesting. If I was starting right now, I think you just start like you normally would start, like, you know, get, get, get paid to see speak by next week by Darren and do everything he says in there or pick some things and do it. Well, for me, relationships helped. I think one thing I'm proud of is I. You know, it's funny, I have people I kept. There's two things I like to pick on, at least one of them if we have time. One is people. You know, a lot of people are like, all my stuff is canceled. Everything on my calendar is canceled. And I was like, wait a second, is it canceled or is it postponed? And usually almost everybody's like, oh, oh, well, it's actually postponed. Like, okay. I mean, do they ask for their money back? Because that's canceled. That's. That's different, right? And thank God I only had. I had no. No clients. Not a single client cancel. Every single event was postponed. I still have just two, I think, left. There are two left. They're outstanding. One or two that need. I still need to deliver that. There's a deposit of fully paid to actually to deliver. So everyone rescheduled. Pushed, pushed, pushed, pushed. And then I had a couple. Here's another thing I'm proud of is I had about 3 convert. When I mean say convert. I mean, they said, we're going to do virtual instead of in person. We still want to have you. And then of course, there's all this conjecture on nsa, you know, all of our Facebook pages and everything about everybody like, oh, you got to go sell the farm. You know, and if you're going to go to virtual, it's worth a lot less. Or you give it to it for free. I never had all the ones that did convert over. I kept. Held the fee and I had some. A couple that were really multi, like pretty, like two keynotes, a breakout, pretty good fees north of, you know, 15, 20, $25. You know, they don't want to talk fee, right?

But pineapple, we're not nsa. You can say it here.

One wasn't. One wasn't in person. When it was over, it was only. It was like $22, right? For this, like multiple keynotes and stuff. And I was like, oh, my gosh, there's no way they're going to give me 22 grand for virtual, right? So I was like, how can I. They go, are you still available? Do you want to do virtual? And I had to come back strong and confident. Oh, yeah, I can do it. I love virtual. I didn't love virtual. I didn't love at the time because I felt like it live in person, been stolen from me anyway. So I just added more value. I said, hey, I'm going to do. You know, we're going to do. Oh, she came back. I said, tell me what you Think, what do you need? And I let her say, and save me trying to guess a little sales lesson there. And she came back and said, here's what I need. And she goes, I feel like this is a lot. I feel like it's a lot more than your original scope and I want to be fair and not take advantage of you. I was like, oh, I like the way you're feeling because that's going to help me be, you know, honest and not, you know, be more courageous with my fee. And so I. She asked for like seven, basically seven sessions across two days. And it was healthcare, right? So of it's kind healthcare distribution company. I mean these people are suffering on the front lines and we really needed help. And of course I said, you know, I thought for a minute I could go back and ask. Some of our colleagues was. Went back like, oh, you sense that desperation in their voice. You could have went back and asked for my money. I'm like, you know what I think? I think it was 22, 24 or something like that. 20. It was 22, 24. Like that's a pretty fair price for, I think for whatever it was seven or nine virtual sessions, you know, it's two full days of my time essentially, plus a lot of prep. Like that's a really good. Especially in the middle of pandemic. So I said yes. I never asked him for more money. I said, absolutely. Being established is what saved me. And having good people like you all saying, man, you got. I had many people, including, I think, I don't know, at least I think both of you at some point said, dude, if I know anybody in this world is going to make it through this, you're going to make it through this. So it was, it really worked me over. I was physically not well when I went into the pandemic. And then I made a couple financial moves right before the pandemic and sold, refinanced my house, sucked all the equity out of it, took all the cash out of my business and bought a piece of property in Colorado to chase down a dream, which put me in a really precarious position. And by the way, you're still married, right? Yeah, I caused.

Yeah, you caused the pandemic.

I did. So I'm sitting in Tracy Brown's kitchen in December 15th of 2019 and I told her what I'd done financially to buy this property above her in Colorado. And she said, wow. And I said, well, Tracy, barring a global Chrysler, this what could happen. It wasn't Wuhan, it Was me.

Is this, is this Tracy, body language expert Tracy?

Exactly. Yeah, Tracy.

Yeah. I talked to her recently myself.

So our, so our podcast is focused on unforgettable presentations. You are amazing. You have this energy, you have this passion that just comes out of every pore. What do you think? Based on helping our listeners, what do you think it takes to be unforgettable?

I think specifically if you had to break it down to a subset of skills, it's storytelling. But before that, like fundamentally, I love my audiences. David Horsager, when he accepted his hall of Fame induction, I think his wife, I think her name's Lisa, she whispered in his ear one time, he was really nervous for this big speech. She said, just love your audience. And I know this is totally opposite of some of our hard hitting colleagues, but this is the way I roll in my heart and how, and I know you all feel a same way. So that's fundamentally, foundationally, that's what drives me and that's what there's, that's one of my magic. I think the X factor that I bring to an event is I'll spend in midnight. I've had meeting planners walking through the hallway at midnight. They're like, why are you still here? Because you're. This, this is Susan. Do you know Susan? She's one of your members, your audience, you know, your attendees. And Susan had just some powerful personal things she wanted to share with me. So I show up in a way that I love my audiences and I want, I care for them and want to pour into to them and they know that and they feel that. And I bring, I think I bring as much as much value off stage as I do on stage with that approach. So. And then within. Okay, so that's fundamental, like just heart mindset as well. Then the mindset about being obsessed, about relentless pursuit of excellence for my brother. And then thirdly, storytelling specifically. I think that's like if you had to focus on, you know, gestures are nice, you know, props are nice. I've got really. Craig and I have been meaning to do it a program, a product on how to use visual and physical props for years because he's impressed the way I do that. I've got really nice photography for my expeditions, but really it all comes down to great storytelling. I mean the best. The people we look up to, like the master storytellers in our, in our field, a lot of them don't even use slides or props. They just like to hold the mic and talk really well. So don't ever get Distracted with all.

The, well, manly you mentioned. Distractions. Come on. You climb mountains for goodness sake. You take amazing photographs, and then you pull out this guitar.

What's up with that, dude?

What's the lesson for those of us who may have a skill or a talent, but we want to be a speaker? Should we kind of open the blinders a little bit and see what we can do with other skills? What do you recommend in that regard?

Absolutely. And everybody that met me early on, people, especially people, knew me, like Doug Devitry, my friend, as our chapter president at the time, he had seen me play in some bands. I've been. I've been a professional musician since I was about 15. Oh, wow. Playing out in St. Louis. And he was like, man, I know you can play that guitar. He's like, you got to figure out a way to bring that into your speaking. And he. And. And everybody kept saying, you gotta check out Mike Rayburn. You gotta check out Mike Rayburn. Yeah. I made a note to myself, this is because I'm just crazy weird about integrity. I was like, I will never, ever bring the guitar on stage until I talk to this guy named Mike Rayburn who's like, all about this, because I. Don't you think I'm stepping on his toes? Which in hindsight is kind of silly because nobody does that in nsa. People just steal. Actually do the opposite, I think. Steal big people's material. So finally we had. I met Mike at Euro at one of your events, and then we had him in our chapter, and I had lunch with him, and I said, hey, man, here's the deal. I want. I want to bring my guitar into my. And I'd already. Actually, I'd already started doing it. And he gave me some really good advice, was really kind and open, and. And it's not my core part of my brand, you know? So it's like. It's like Mike is an outdoor enthusiast, as you all know, and he probably. He does some. I've climbed with him, actually. He could tell a climbing story and his presentation. He's not gonna be stepping on my toes. It's gonna. You know, his brand is about the music. So I have a story in which I play the guitar. It's about courage. And my mom's the hero, so. But it's not really my brand. Although I want to bring the guitar into more of my. What I do. So I probably maybe will in time. That's what Mike told me to do, too. He said, just do this thing you're doing. Which I played A national anthem. It's a true story about what I did in high school. Almost got expelled. And he said, keep doing that. And if people ask for more, then, you know, you're, you're clicking. And I've had, I've had that happen many, many, many times. I just need to figure out how to, you know, do that. But I'm not. Here's the point of this. I'm not contriving it into what I do. So I took it literally. I started hearing this in 2010. People like you got to bring the guitar into your presentations. I never picked up the guitar on stage until 2014, I think. 2014. Before, actually. I think at Craig, Craig, Valentine and Mitches. I'm a certified world class speaking coach with them. And at our little summit, we had about 35 of us speech coaches. They allowed four of us to do keynotes. And that was the first time I actually did it, I think in front of a live audience. That was late 2014. So my point is that's four years. So don't contrive your talent onto the stage. People will sense it and it'd be cheesy at best. And I would encourage you to do it. But it takes hard work. It took me four years to figure out what's available. I can't just play the guitar just to play it.

Right, right.

Then you're just showing off. It's got to be like, what's a really powerful story or something this can help invoke and lesson or content or insight or inspiration. Can't be just because you can do it. Same with the climbing thing. That's the crux of my. That's a word we use a lot in climbing to identify the hardest section, you know, is the crux. The crux of that. And you all told me this, like, you gotta find it's great. You're gonna be entertaining, you're really good, you're colorful, you get good at storytelling, you can keep people's attention, but if it's not relevant, it's only the value is limited. And I think. But that said, entertainers get paid a lot in this country, right? But if you can be entertaining and you can make your content and your personal experience or your talent relevant to the audience, then your, your value goes way up.

Wow. And manly. I'm going to be super bold here. I'm going to invite you to come back again because our time's cutting short now. I want to honor your time and there's more I want to know. There's Deeper we want to go.

So, so much stuff. I'd love to share.

Let's have you back, if that's okay.

Please. Yeah. Like, tomorrow, whenever y' all want it. And I would love that.

My last question is, what are some of the mistakes? Let's just say the lessons you learned along the way, but the mistakes, you see other people that dilute their power. So they're not unforgettable, they are forgettable. What is some of the mistakes or lessons? Lessons learned along Manley's journey.

I think the number one thing I see people doing. I love Ed Tate's quote. You can't cheap your way to the top. It comes. I think it. I think it's a derivative of the, what I call the employee mindset. It's this mindset, like, I'm the employee. The boss is what. Who pays for my development. Right. So if you've been caught up in corporate America, or any business for that matter, other than if you haven't owned your own business, where your own tail was on the line every week, every month, then maybe you probably don't fully embrace the mindset it's going to take, which is this is. I own this company. I own myself, and I've got to invest in myself. I mean, I still spend five to $10,000 a year in my professional skillset development, specifically just on the platform. That's not including my business development I do with Mark LeBlanc and other brilliant NSA speakers to up my sales game or my marketing game or. And that's not even including my personal development. So I go to, like, meditation retreats and Tony Robbins events or, you know, all these other things just to keep me at my peak performance. But I spend that, like, at least, you know, two to five, seven, eight grand just on the platform. Skills. You got to invest in yourself if you want to make it work.

There's a great book called 17 minutes to your dream.

Oh, I heard about that book, man.

I am the CEO of my dream.

Which is what I exactly so got to own that.

Man. This has been so, so heavy. I agree, Darren. We need to get Manly to come back, because we haven't even looked at the way he writes, creates, and delivers. And that, I think, will also help our audience to become not only good, but unforgettable as well.

I have.

What we do, Manly, at the end of our program is to go through some of the keepers and nuggets that we pick up. And I don't always get them all. Sometimes Darren gets a few, but you've left us with several nuggets I want to pass on from you, from you and your brother. You say find the best people in your chosen field and get close to them. And whatever you do, do what they tell you to do. You have to be clear.

Right?

Clear on your goals and you can surround yourself with coaches. You just said you do personal, you do business, you do skill set.

I do. I have a meditation coach, I have a business coach, I have smart. Many speech coaches. Two. You are two of them. Two of the very best. Like if I had to have, you know, two or three, it's like you, Craig, Ed, Mark, maybe Michael, I've got. Yeah. So you carry on.

Yeah, that's it. And here's one that Darren and I would pull our hair out with with our clients is record yourself, transcribe your, your work, then watch it, assess it and then improve it. Excellent advice. Also, stay humble. If you're part of an association, get involved and get known that way. Consistently develop your skill set and work during the off season as a presenter. Master storytelling and bring as much off stage as you bring on stage. Involve yourself in a relentless pursuit of excellence. And if you have different skill sets and talents, find a way to validly and relevantly include your additional gifts in your presentation. Always invest in your self development and whatever you do, love your audience.

Bam, man, bam. Wow, I didn't know we had covered that much good stuff. That's a. Oh yeah, good podcast right there. That's a brilliant Manley.

Finally, final question. If you are sitting across someone with a having a cup of coffee and it's a new emerging speaker presenter, you've obviously given a lot of advice. What would you say to them over coffee if they said, manley, I really want to be unforgettable, I have a message I care about. What do I do?

This is what I tell people all the time. This is. And you're going to. You know this because I've done this many times. I tell them to go see, be with you guys and surround yourselves themselves with you all in your work. I've just, I mean I've literally told hundreds of people that it was my path and there's not. You're not the only shop in town. But I gotta say two things. One is there's not many that are really solid and ethically and integrity grounded in the way you all are. Secondly, I have not found any other including some really, really good speech coaches in nsa. There's some couple other speech coaches in NSA I've worked with they're just as good as you guys, but it's limited to the moment. They're really good, like live coaching, but they don't only have the content to back it up, which is fine. What's challenging about that is especially starting out is like, you forget so much, right? So I go to a boot camp with you guys and the same thing I used to tell people in Fred Prior seminar, like, I'm gonna make you think you know everything you need to know when you walk out of here, but you're not gonna remember that much of it. And you need. You're going to need something when you walk out of there. So I don't care if you go with a book. People like, they're trying to sell me something. Well, buy a freaking book. It's 10 bucks, man. I want to read. I don't want to read. That's a lot of work. I'm like, then buy the CD package. Like, well, that's 200. Well, you know, don't be griping at me when you're like, well, how do you. So anyway, invest in yourself and get yourself the resources you need to support that path. And then pick one, right? Pick a path. Like if. If you guys resonate with you, then go with you guys. There's really. There's only no, like two or three programs I would even consider. And really by you guys, for me or by far, I think especially for an emerging speaker, no question, the most dependable way you can get the skills you need. And the coaching, the support and the content, that's the thing. It's not repeatable for a lot of people. Like, you work with a coach, you might improve the story, but. And then a month later you're like, how do I improve this story? You got to go back to that coach. Which is fine. But I also like the frameworks. You always all are really good at the content piece because your business model is demanded. You create solid content that will sustain and not just be something, you know, some people really use can anyway. That's. That's a really a game changer. I think that you all have the content to back up the learning in person or virtual. So that's what I would recommend. I also really like another one that's not in your all's realm. So people don't think I'm just brought on as a shill to testify how amazing you all are. Because you are is a.

No, this advertisement exactly.

A friend of your alls. Judy. I think Judy Carter's book, the message of you when I had somebody two weeks ago to conference a lady, she had this powerful personal story. You're going to be my mentor. I said read this book, do all the exercises, then call me and I'll pour into you. And she's like, oh, I don't know if I have time to read that book. I'm like, well then, but you want me to have time to spend hours of for free anyway. For free. Oh yeah, of course. But. So that's another great resource I especially if you have like a special story or some life experience you want to share and you know, really solid marketing ideas in there too. It's a great comprehensive take on it, I think.

Manly, thanks for being with us. We are going to have you back as soon as Mark and I are.

Done with our so much stuff we could talk about.

Amen.

Mentioned specific lessons, you know, with that I talk about in this little thing, you know, like actual. Yes. Your book.

How manly. How can people reach out to you if they want to find. If they want to be more manly.

They want to be more manly. So it's verticallessons.com vertical, vertical lessons. The word vertical. Then lessons plural.com. and then at the top of that website, my email and self. My actual cell phone numbers on the top of every single page.

Man. All right, well, hey, we'll have you back soon. Mark Brown, take us home, man.

This has been a great part. One to find out how to be a manly presenter. Listen, we're going to have Manly back but in the meantime take note of the nuggets that he left behind. And if I want to leave one with you, it's this. You want to be great. We're unforgettable. As Manly says, love your audience and you'll be unforgettable. We'll see you next week.

Thanks guys.

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If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out Stagetime University where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about, go to stagetimeuniversity.com join us next week. If you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.