Ep. 159 The Biggest Mistakes with Patricia Fripp

Hey there, Mark Brown. I just returned from a conference in Florida and I was on stage with colleagues who were world class speakers. They were great, the audience loved them. And because I've been frippicized and enlightened by Ms. Patricia Fripp, I saw so many things they could have done better. It drives me crazy now that I've been enlightened.

Well, the thing is, Darren, I will confess, yes, even pros like us do make some common mistakes. But here's the blessing we have with us today our mentor, the one I call the inimitable Ms. Fripp. And we're going to talk with her today about some of those mistakes and how to avoid them. So let's jump into it and meet Patricia Fripp.

Anyone can give a presentation, few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time, Stage time, Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. AHAs. Let's dive right in.

Yes, Mark. And you can be a good speaker but not have awareness of some of the ideas, some of the mistakes, some of the techniques that could make you unforgettable. So this we're going to bring some awareness. We're going to do it with the woman. Here she is. If you don't know her, then this is your first episode of our podcast because we mention her all the time.

All the time.

And as she says, she taught us, us everything we know. Not everything she knows, which is why we brought her on. And if you don't know her, she changed the industry where she was the first female president of the National Speakers association back in the day when it was mostly men and definitely male presidents until they were fritnicized. She's a CSP CPAE. She works with executives, CEOs, engineers and sales teams. And we are thrilled to invite you, Patricia Fripper, to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast. Welcome.

I am thrilled to be back.

Yes, she has been on before and this time we want to kind of COVID mistakes, mistakes that we see presenters make that are common. And it doesn't mean they're not good, it just means they could impact the audience in a more unforgettable fashion. Mark Brown, how are you?

I'm doing really, really well and I want to jump into it. I want to Ask Fripp, what is your perspective on mistakes as presented?

There are two types of mistakes. Mistakes we make and don't learn from and mistakes we do make and learn from. Robert Fripp, my brother spoke on lady and the Champs in 2015 and one of his frippicisms is there is only one mistake in life and that is to not learn from our mistake.

Nice.

That's wisdom right there.

Back to your situation that you just had in Orlando that reminds me very much of what was perhaps, at least in one industry, an unforgettable presentation for me and for the audience. Now, before I tell you what I what what happened? And I'm not saying the other speakers who were a lot more famous and well paid than I, because it's not that they made mistakes as much as they didn't do all they could do. The meeting planner wrote me a letter which is still a quote on my website, which will never go down. He said, you sure showed Zig Ziglar how to deliver a speech. He said, I have never seen any speaker in the industry who works as hard as you do for the client. This was in 1996, the American Cemetery association and as we know, Darren and Mark. At many large conferences, the keynote speakers are paid for by corporate sponsors. Now, I listened to both the presentations that Zig Ziglar and Mark Victor Hansen, and that was in the heyday of Chicken Soup for the Soul. I listened to their presentations before I delivered mine and they were also sponsored by corporate sponsors. However, after my opening remarks, I quoted the president of sci, who paid for me and my walk away line included the corporate sponsor sci, which was helpful because when they said, would you sponsor a speaker? They said, only if it's Patricia Fripp. Because I'd spoken at their meeting before. So obviously that presentation was unforgettable. For 14 months I received all the newsletters from the corporate sponsor and all the magazines from the American Cemetery Association. So although my core presentation, how to Get, Keep and Deserve Customers, were the same framework, the same structure, the same signature stories I would use in every presentation, we all have our classic stories. However, what was different, I incorporated stories from their magazines and quotes from the corporate sponsor. So it looked as if I had written the presentation just for for them. If I were be so bold as to say more famous speakers and perhaps those that were on the program with you, Darren, if they were to make a mistake, it was to not incorporate unique differences with this audience than the one they delivered from last week.

The next week, I like to say that it's our job, our responsibility to build the bridge between our content and their world. And sometimes even though our content may be directly relevant, there's still that one or two more items that by doing your homework, you can help make that bridge just this freeway to help create that content stick. Mark your thoughts.

And you know what I like about this concept is this. Darren, you said you went to this conference this past week, but you went in early, two days early, and you delivered a keynote speech. I did the exact same thing several years ago for an insurance company in Chicago, Illinois, where I went for the entire. I went to as many sessions as possible. I took copious notes and I incorporated what I found in my closing remarks. And they told me it was the best closing they've ever had. And I think there's great wisdom in realizing how can I be their favorite? How can I do my utmost, do the best that I can to let them know I'm not going to come in with my back pocket canned speech? Yes, they want our stories, they want our experience. But if we could include details, a story, an anecdote, an exaltation of their team, of their accomplishments, then they know we didn't just come in with a back pocket. We invested the time to learn about the client and in so doing, to serve the client. So I'm going to kind of cap this off, in my opinion by saying we have to be aware of the potential to make the mistake of not truly serving our client in the best way possible. And the simple solution is to invest the time to get the corporate newsletter to get their magazine. And Darren, you make phone calls to key employees and very often you'll find the one who gets more celebrated. But these are simple techniques that can elevate your presentation from great to unforgettable. Let's not make the mistake of thinking that my back pocket prepared speech is all and the best I have to offer the audience. Any more thoughts on that, Ms. Fripper?

Well, the techniques that I used then when I was doing my interviews and reading their publications, very much what I do now, helping companies restate their new message. For example, the client I have next week. Now this is a technical company, though I interview as Darren does and I say is what would you want them to say about your new strategy? And I record, I have them transcribed and I take what they said and fritnotize it so I say it slightly better. As you told the audience down you're.

Kind with slightly, you probably tell it much better or say it much better you're being kind much more eloquently as.

Well as we will know in my very next meeting, we'll find out if they like what I've done with it when I run it by the boss. Oh yes. And then I saw is talking to engineers. Engineers who I spend a lot of my life with. I of course don't know everything that they're talking about and people are often. Well, how can you help them? One teaching them what we always teach and what you teach in stage time university. When they are speaking, it can't be about them. It has to be about the audience. You have to use you focused language, speak in shorter sentences and make it very specific and write to speak rather than write as if this were a brochure. And the question I would challenge our listeners that I ask my clients is these words you are using, would you use them at the dinner table with your family if you're sitting having a cup of coffee with your colleagues? So I'm not telling people dumb down your conversation at all. But don't use words that you would write for a marketing letter if you wouldn't use them in a conversation. So perhaps that's one mistake is using words you don't normally use use just to think it makes you sound smarter, more eloquent.

And Patricia, one of the mistakes that you brought to my awareness early in my career that I'd love to know the background on is the biggest enemy of speakers is sameness. Where did that come from?

It came from a great speech coach who is no longer with us, Ron Arden. And he was the last interview I did for my celebrity series when we had a different community. Darren, remember that one? I do, yes. Ron Arden came from a theatrical background. He was an actor and a director. And he said the enemy of for speakers is sameness. Now, any mistakes, believe me, I've just had more years to make them. I remember early in my career I attended a Bert Decker speaking session. And that was when they were a brand new company. We were, it was like in the late 70s. And we videoed ourselves. They were videoed us. And then I sat down with Deborah Decker the way she described it, which is perfect. She said, patricia, you have wonderful energy and passion. However, think of an orchestra. It's loud and then it's soft. And it's the variety that makes it more interesting. So if you're always racing around the stage, if you're always loud and excited, it gets boring. So when you're loud and then you also get soft, you move then you stand still, you're on the stage, you're in the audience, every variety. And you talk about it, I believe, as elements. Darren. All the changes helps keep our audiences, which every year become even more stimulation junkies with short attentions. Variety. We have to know who we are talking to and personalize. You don't have to overdo it. But it's very important. I say to my clients when I'm helping them, I'm not trying to say I can do their job. I just want them to know I do understand what you do and the.

Challenges you have real quickly. I deeply appreciate this point because in my experience of almost 30 years with Toastmasters, the idea of sameness is often misunderstood or misconstrued to mean monotone and boring. You can be, as Fripp says, you could be high energy all the time, take a breath that becomes boring if that's all you ever do. And some speakers, they start high energy and they stay here for 45 minutes. When you're done, you're exhausted. Okay. The nuance, the shading, the colors, it really enhances the experience of an unforgettable presentation if we were able to avoid and eschew sameness and give them a true emotional experience as well. So thank you for that. I made a big note here. It's not always boring. Monotony. It could be the same as at a very high physical and verbal level.

And let's look at some of the mistakes executives make. And perhaps it is also everyday professionals that suddenly have to give an important presentation. They are so nervous that they do not realize you cannot begin too early, at least thinking about your presentation. There is so much more thought in the process than when you sit down and put it together. So I would say mistakes many people make at every level is don't begin early enough to prepare. Yes. And with my corporate clients, it's that many of them have communication teams working to get the content together. To make the slides is to think that once the presentation is done that they're over. I say, no, it's halfway done, and you've got to get it in your body, especially if other people have done a lot of the preparation for you. You have to go over and over to internalize it. And then another mistake we have all seen, not pausing and the pause is so valuable. As Alan Alder said, there is not nothing in silence. The silence is a powerful part of the communication one. It gives the speaker time to think, well, what comes next? And then the audience has time to think. That makes sense. Never thought of it that way. Really? It's that much?

Yeah. It's like they talk about music and they say part of the music is the space between the notes. For us as speakers, it's the space between the poignant words that allow them to absorb.

And if I may quote Robert Fripp, he would also have said this at lady and the Champs. The principles in any one discipline, exactly the same principles in any other discipline. I remember when in the days pre PowerPoint on the flip chart, I was speaking in Nashville and I had the Fripp speech diagram up and Jana Stanfield, very famous songwriter, singer, speaker, came up and said, fripp, that's exactly the same way you writes a song.

Nice. Mark, I want to go back for a second. I thought when you mentioned that not being ready early enough in your experience and you do work with several executives and high powered CEOs, Fripp and I was just wondering, random thought came to my mind. Is it possible that sometimes executives fail to make the assumption that at some point I will have to deliver a presentation update by our shareholders or hold? Have you found some who simply aren't prepared for the principle of being required to give presentations? Maybe they're a young CEO, a new company or a startup, and they don't realize that's part of their job. Is that possible?

One of my new favorite CEOs, his company just received another $200 million in funding and that's when the entire company said, all right, you are the public face. You got to notch it up. So there are times that shareholders or there are times that investors, a lot of these venture capital firms will say, yes, we're investing in you. However, your leadership needs to learn how to communicate better.

You've confirmed to me what my thought is. My thought is if you find yourself quickly ascending to leadership, you should be prepared at some point or at least understand you will be required perhaps to be the face of the company or at least deliver talks to shareholders and other individuals because of the role that you have. If you're hearing this now and you've been fine behind the scenes in the past, but your career track is bringing you higher, you might want to start thinking right now about if I do not, if I do, when I do get called upon to present how well I prepare, and that may require getting a coach now in advance in the expectation of the requirement being made of you. Darren.

Yes. I would love to ask you, Patricia, from your perspective, because you deal with a lot of corporate clients, coach a lot of corporate Clients I have had one large one. One of the mistakes I saw them make, same thing I saw at the conference in Florida, is slides. Now it's obvious, okay, maybe too many. Maybe they're reading them. That's obvious. But what are some of the other mistakes? I'll throw it to you, Patricia, and then mark some of the other mistakes you see on slides.

Oh, well, it's having too much information on one slide. Well, of course, it's called cognitive overload. And this is very well researched. If you give too much information without breaks or you have too much information on the slide, it hurts the audience's head. It's almost like you're giving them a headache which they're going to disengage if you have a busy slide. What I just tell all my engineers who are going to, they're talking about complex issues. They need visuals. However, take all the elements off and put them together. Builds one at a time that tells the story. So this is the headquarters, this is the technology, this is the customers. Now how are they all linked together? So that would be the best. And then a challenge I like to give everyone is, all right, that's your slide. Now imagine your technology didn't work. Now can you tell Dori and help the audience understand? Ah, now this is another technique that I would suggest if you have too much complexity is think of a way to relate this before you introduce the slide. For example, my first scientist I ever coached in the 90s was my next door neighbor, Mike Powell, and I invited him to speak to my professional women's organization. I spoke Mike, we don't spend time with scientists and even if we did, we probably wouldn't know what you were talking about. Can you help this lay audience understand what it's like being a scientist? And Mike said being a scientist is like doing a jigsaw puzzle in a snowstorm at night when you don't have all the pieces and you don't have the picture you're trying to create now. So for many years I would, as an exercise with my clients, as a group exercise, say being a emergency room nurse. Being a is like. And that is a way that very often, if you're talking to an audience who wants the benefits of your technology, doesn't really need to understand it. That nitpicky way that engineers speak to engineers and is what we call fat and skinny words. You have to present your message from a fatter version, even if you're going to get more technical for those in the audience. Because if one mistake you make if you have different segment in the audience, some are not technical. A little technical and very technical. You have to speak at a higher level, a fatter message, and then gradually get more technical. If you start technical first, you've lost the people that don't understand, and you never get them back. However you take them by the hand, you see, it's like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Oh, I know how to do jigsaw puzzles. And take them along, they'll understand it better.

That's like a verbal build.

Yes, yes, that's a great phrase. A verbal build. That's a new Darrenism.

Yeah. One of the things that I had taught my corporate client when I worked with this large company in Boston was to the executives. Now, I was working with young executives who were new to presenting. They were account executives working one on one with customers and clients. But the presenting part was new to them. So I would have them show me a slide. I would cross my arms and I would say, okay, what's your one point from this slide? Well, but what I'm trying to say, I'm like, okay, you know what you're talking about. You know your business. This is my first time seeing it as the potential client, I need to understand it. So I always say, defend each slide. What's the one point from each slide? And if you look at it from that way, it will force you to stop, back up and make another slide. They're free. Make another one. Make a third if you need to. Mark.

It's funny, Darren, a thought occurred to me that if you can't in an emergency whiteboard or flip chart the content of your slide, chances are your slide is too complicated. I'll say that again. If you can't whiteboard or flip chart what your slide has, should you encounter technical difficulties, then maybe your slide might be a little bit too complicated itself for you to portray that simply or easily. Now, I don't use technical slides, but I do remember when I was doing youth programs years ago, I was using my PowerPoint images, quotations and so on for impact for these young minds to absorb. And we were supposed to be in an auditorium with 500 kids and the lights and PowerPoint projector, my flash drive, good to go. And at some point an admin says, we want more than not just 8th grade to hear this. We want both 7th and 8th grade to hear this and for it to be effective. We can't put them all in our cafeteria or gymna cafeteria multipurpose room, but we have a wonderful commons area. Outside, like a coliseum with raised seating. We'll put them all there. We'll have big microphones, big speakers. It'll be great. In California at 9:30am on a sunny day, you will not get a single slide to work. And thankfully I didn't have a reason to panic because I realized that while the slides were there, they were what they were intended to be back in the day. We call them visual aids to assist you, not to overtake you. And I believe one of the mistakes we have to avoid is relying too heavily upon our slides to do our job for us. It sounds harsh to say that. I would rather say let your slide be your guide, but don't let your slide dictate what you present. And Darren and I don't know if I told you this, maybe we did, but about six years ago, we had a client, a large client in Europe. They flew us both over to do a three day training program for them. And we were helping them to present eloquently. One of our programs we do at Stage University. And we realized that they had brought in their presentations with the slides and they have an entire division, as you said, their job is to get slides ready. When we both saw those slides, that comical double take, you know, just slides, we said, and Darren being Darren, it was not on our agenda. But Darren kind of addressed the whole slide thing. But they made it clear to us that's what they do and that was their culture. But as outsiders, we were like, what in the world do they have on images and lines and graphics and words? It seems so busy. But that was the culture in which they found themselves. My last thought is this. In 21st century, with so much reliance on topology and virtual communication, we have to be aware of what the person on the other end sees, understands, comprehends, or are they going, when they see.

Your slide, they can't see it and understand it and comprehend doesn't matter. You've just confused them. You lose the audience lose, the event planner loses, the company that brings you in association loses as well. One more mistake, Patricia, that I'd like to bring up with you. And by the way, one of the reasons we have Patricia with us is we are out of our minds excited that Mark and I invited Patricia to work on a book which is based on her content. Mark and I thought, well, let's invite the woman who we learn from. And so we're thrilled. So we have new, a brand brand new book, brand new coming out. Deliver unforgettable presentations. Anyone can deliver a presentation. But step by Step seven steps how to create and deliver an unforgettable presentation with the subtitle Mark being How to.

Speak to be Remembered and repeated in person, Online and on stage.

So if you're listening to this, it comes out September 13th. September 13th. You'll find it on Amazon. Check out our website deliverunforgettablepresentations.com you can see what's coming. You can see some background on the book and what it will do for you. One of the mistakes that I wanted to bring up before we wrap this up for me personally, because I would love your take on this, is I saw people go back and forth. They were delivering, but they were going back and forth like a caged lion. They had passion, they had enthusiasm, they were good. However, their movement, they're moving without purpose. How would you advise them?

One of our most loved and famous NSA members who is one of the best motivational speakers I've ever seen, he would give Zig Ziglar a modern day run for his money. And years ago when we met, I said, would you like me to pretend I'm Ron Arden? Because I didn't, I wasn't established. Hey, you want me to give you advice and this is a great way when you're giving feedback to other people. I always say when I work with a corporate client, you have to give feedback to each other. So make me the heavy say, well, if Ms. Fripp were here, she'd probably tell you that. So I said, well, if Ron Arden were here, he would tell you you're delivering your best lines to the wall. I find that a lot of corporate execs, I don't know if they've seen Tony Robbins or they think roaming across stage is. One, if you move across stage, you still have to look at the audience. Two, if you are on a speaking at a large conference, it's on imag. So you're watching on IMAG and you're making your audience dizzy. I have sat in and had people around me looking at their leaders saying, I can't watch. He's hurting me. He's moving so fast. So one, also, don't take on the Persona of what you think think is a motivational speaker. You want your Persona notched up. You need to create an energetic intimacy with your audience, whether it's a virtual or a live presentation. You might have energy moving, but look at them. And every time you get to a key point, stand still, pause.

Remember.

Stage time, stage time, stage time. Remember to develop before rapport. So it's building in so it's almost the energy and then you stop. That is, is. It's the quiet part that is as if you are underlining and putting an excl, exclamation mark on your point of wisdom. Not when you're racing around high energy that's getting them all revved up. But now this. And it all goes back to certainly the orchestration, as you said, the orchestration of the speech and the variety that makes it interesting. We all know an audience will forgive you anything except being boring and being energetic 100% of the time can become boring.

Well, I just got my favorite key for the day. Develop an energetic intimacy with your audience. That's like a cherry on top of the cake for me.

Bam.

Mic drop right there. Boom. Thank you so much, Patricia.

Patricia, thanks for being here with us. We're excited to have you next week as well. We get you for two weeks in a row. Next week we're gonna cover, I think. Bam. Look at that. I have my little subtle background. Patricia is the only one I know who owns her non subtle Persona. And thank you, Mark.

Big bet and proud of it.

Yes.

There you go. So we're thrilled this book's coming out based on all of our experiences combined. This was not simple to do, but to make it a simple step by step process. If you know anyone who gives presentations, if you have a team that delivers presentations, whether it's a professional speaker, a corporate executive, a sales team who presents, look, this is the, in my opinion, the bible. And presentations deliver unforgettable presentations, tapping into all of our experience. So join us next week. We're going to go into one of the most important critical aspects which is the process putting together and structuring your presentation. So join us for that next week. The book comes out September 13th. Check it out on Amazon. It's on Kindle. There'll be a Kindle special going on there. But definitely. Look, if you want more insights and what's the book about, go on. Deliver unforgettable presentation. We also have a bonus section, deliverunforgettablepresentations.com bonus. We have a knowledge vault there that you can access for free, but please help us spread the word. If you've ever learned from any one of us, please help us tell the world about this book. That's going to help them avoid frustration, have a process to follow, proven by years and decades, and most importantly, help you be remembered or repeated online. We'll see you next week.

Next week.

Join us. Thanks, Patricia.

My pleasure. The number one mistake, not buying the book.

Yes.

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