Ep. 16 The Sexy, Unsexy Part of Unforgettable Presentations

Hey there, Mark. Have you ever been in front of a presenter of any kind and they had some beautiful moments, but there was just one thing that you and I knows was missing, and it's actually the sexiest part of speaking, but it's kind of unsexy. You know what I mean?

I do.

And I bet our listeners want to know what that is too. Darren, you gonna share it?

So I was in front of a pastor and. And he is super talented. He tells some great stories, but he's never really gone to training. And it broke my heart because he had this great message and these beautiful moments. But there was one thing that was missing that would have made it so much sexier. Mark, do you have ever a situation like that?

Well, it's funny you say that. In my coaching too, I've had clients who've had a really good idea that they want to share. As I go through with them and I hear their talk and I look at their. I go, oh, my gosh, this is okay, but it'd be so much better if they made one significant little change to make it really sexy.

Are you curious?

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? AHAs. Let's dive right in.

Hey there, Mark Brown. How are you today?

So far, so blessed, my friend. How are you doing?

I'm doing great and I'm excited about this subject. You and I just did an event, Unforgettable Presentations, where over two days, we walk people through the important part of literally the process for creating an unforgettable presentation. We had so much fun.

Oh, yeah, it was great. One of our best, actually. Really? One of our best so far.

Imagine that 20 years later, we're still getting better.

Hey, it's a lesson there. You stop learning, you stop growing. You stop living, my friends.

Yeah. Amen. And we're talking today about the sexy, unsexy part of speaking that work that maybe you didn't consider. And honestly, in 2001, I had been a speaker for seven years. I was in Toastmasters 4 Clubs and NSA for seven years. I was getting paid. And there was just one thing that was missing. I knew about material, I knew about delivery. But Mark, what do you got to say?

Darren, you are holding people in suspense for too long, man. That's not very nice. It's not. Well, come on, come clean, man. Be nice.

But isn't it. Aren't you curious?

I think everybody is. Come on, man.

Well, that's the part. Structure. This was the piece that I was missing. I always remember sitting at the ToastMasters convention in 2001, and Patricia Fripp, our friend, our mentor, was up on the. She was the keynote speaker opening the convention. And I just sat there and she put up this visual of her speech model. And as a visual learner, after seven years, I finally got it. I understood the power of structure. I knew material, I knew delivery. But without structure, truly your message doesn't stay in the hearts and the minds.

Of your audience, doesn't resonate, it doesn't stick. I mean, you want your message to stick. And sometimes we don't really even understand what structure is. I can recall being in Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Toastmasters Convention and my friend Thorgen Muirk, he's a German living in Barcelona Artrese Barcelona, and he often consult with me on his keynote speeches. And he says, we're Germans, we love structure, we want structure. And he has built his keynote business there in Barcelona on using infographics and having structure to his presentations, because realized if we don't have a good structure, the audience will miss the benefit of giving the best of what we have to offer. And Darren, I've often heard you almost preach this. You have to have good structure for a couple of reasons. One is it gives you as a presenter, confidence, which is a plus. But the second plus is it also gives the audience clarity. But if someone says, darren, Mark, come on, define for me, how would you really define the structure in a presentation to make it unforgettable? What would you tell them?

Well, I would yield to the queen, Patricia Fripp. She has the best definition, which I think is perfect, poignant and simple, yet powerful. When I learned material delivery and structure, structure. And she defines structure as the order and framework of your presentation. It's the foundation. It's built on a strong structure. Because if you're not clear or you have these beautiful moments and then these random thoughts, and then you're going on this wild goose chase with your head cut off, which is what I was doing. I was passionate. I had some poignant moments, I had some beautiful moments. But without the right structure, it just isn't absorbable by our audience. And if we want the standing ovation, if we want them to remember us three days, three weeks, three months later. It's gotta have structure. It's gotta be built on structure. I love what Lou Heckler says. He's got this beautiful quote that he says, structure doesn't freeze you, it frees you.

Now, that sounds like the same word twice. Doesn't freeze you. As in frozen. F R E E, Z E if you're British. F R E E. Z e doesn't freeze you, but it freeze you. F R E E S as in liberates. Right?

Yes, Lou Heckler.

It doesn't freeze you frozen, but it frees you. Ah, liberates you. That's a pretty cool quote.

It doesn't freeze you.

It frees you.

It frees you.

Oh, man, you are like a boy with a toy. Darren Lacroix.

That's right, man.

A boy with a toy. Darren Lacroix. Doesn't freeze you, it frees you. The other early keeper, again was Fritz. Definition of what structure is. The order and the framework. That's really important for us to catch that, because as you said, what really struck you with that pastor was his order was going hither, thither and yon, all over the place. And when we structure our presentations, one of the benefits is the clarity that the audience gets and the freedom we have and the confidence we have to know we're delivering our message in a poignant and powerful way for them to give. Get that message. I guess that's really why it's important, why it matters, because you have been given an opportunity, a blessing to spend time with people who are willing to hear what you have to say. The last thing you want is for them to walk away going, huh, Nice guy, great voice. But what was he really? I didn't quite catch that. Did you get that piece? I'm not quite so sure. And all your effort goes to waste. You have that responsibility to give the audience the best you have. You're an expert. It's your knowledge, your expertise. It really is important to structure it well, create that roadmap that will lead the audience to where you need them to be. So when they walk away, they'll say, yeah, it was worth my while to have been there. Any thoughts on that, Darren?

Yeah. Our friend Maureen Zappala, former NASA engineer, everything she does, she needs literal rocket science. She needs a flowchart. When she wants to understand it, she needs a flowchart. So what the structure is, is it allows the audience to have a flowchart of your message and your points that we can See where you're going, we know where you are. And if a random thought happens, you can do that. But then you need to come back to that moment. And within that structure, we still know where you are. So it allows tangents if you come back and remind us where we're at. So the structure so far of this podcast is, number one, what is it? Number two, why it matters. Number three we're gonna cover is mistakes. Most of the common mistakes that we see about structure, and three is the must have the things you need to have a strong structure. So again, the structure of this podcast. What? What is it? The order and the framework. Why does it matter? To make your message more digestible that we take away. And we have a clear understanding, giving you confidence as the presenter and your audience, clarity. So now, Mark, mistakes, let's go into what are the common mistakes that we see about structure?

Well, one is not having a structure. Honestly, I have been to presentations where a speaker is trying to get a point across. They go off on a tangent. I actually saw a presenter at a Toastmasters International convention delivering a keynote, got off into a story and said to the audience, I'm not lying. Where was I saying? And there was no order or framework to what he was doing. What he was actually doing was telling a series of stories that he thought would be appropriate. But there was no rhyme or reason. There was no starting point, There was no direction. There was no clear set goal. So there was no structure. With his presentation, he thought, I'll just toss a few stories together. Love my stories. If the topic is interesting, it'll be great and they will go home and everybody will be happy. But have you ever seen a confused dog go? That's how some people felt at the end of that main platform presentation at a major international convention, you need to have structure, as Darren says, the roadmap to get you where you need to be. And sadly, many times I've seen presenters who had no structure, got off on a tangent down the rabbit hole and had no way to find themselves back. There was no gps.

Mark. That's gonna be a keeper for me. All. It's. It's the Scooby Doo issue. Ruh, Roh.

Don'T get off into a tangent.

No, we are on m the structure right now around mistakes. And you said number one is not having one. Mark, I'm gonna add a new one. You and I discussed the structure of this podcast beforehand. I'm gonna add another one right here. Cause I think it fits in the flow. So number one is not having one. Number two is not having a world class structure. Because those of you, I know a lot of toastmasters, we have pastors, we have entrepreneurs listening. So for our toastmasters, you might have heard or actually heard, this is big in the pastor world. Tell them what you're gonna tell them. Tell them, tell them what you told them. That is a structure. It does help, but it's totally surface level. So just having that at least is some structure. But it's not world class structure. I also heard tell a story, make a point, tell another story, make another point, tell another story, make another point. You know, have an open and close. That's middle act advice from my world, the stand up world opening act advice. Tell them what you're gonna tell them. Tell them, tell them what you told them. Middle act advice is have an open, have a close, tell a story, make a point. Tell a story, make a point. The challenge with that is not all of the stories are working together and all of the points for one clear, powerful message. And if you're listening to this, we encourage you to go back to episode number eight where we talked about clarifying your message. This is not about clarifying your message. It's a part of your structure, but not the whole structure. So again, number two, not having a world class structure. Find one from a coach. Mark and I teach it. It doesn't have to be from us. Patricia Fripp's speech model. But even just having the model isn't enough unless you know, in fact, step by step, how to use it and the why to use it. Mark, when we had our event this past weekend, it was just, you saw the aha's in the minds of the audience. It was so beautiful. Cause you could see that they now understood how it all works together. That's like I almost cry, I almost shed a tear.

Oh, Darren.

Well, because now we know that we've affected their presentations for the rest of their career and that's why you and I love doing this.

And I'm glad you made that point. When you are in front of an audience and you get to teach and share some of the concepts and they get the aha moment. Because for some it's not that they didn't care about structure, but I think for some it could be they didn't really see the great significance of it. You know, we got, tell them what you told them, tell them, that's fine, I'll get, I'll use that technique and give my speech. But when you understand how powerful, well constructed, well structured, Presentations, the impact that can have when you can measure an okay response versus a good response versus a wow response. When you are unforgettable, you get the wow response because you understand the significance of having a good structure to your presentation. It's not enough to have a structure, but to have a world class structure. And when you see what it can do when Lou Heckler's words doesn't freeze you, but it frees you, when that makes sense to you, then you go, aha. I can't do anything but use a world class structure because I really want the audience to get the maximized benefit of what I have to offer. And that's really, really key to make sure not to devalue the importance of having good structure in your presentations.

Yeah, so well said. And I think mistake number three is understanding the importance of structure.

Misunderstanding it.

Yeah, misunderstanding it or not understanding, misunderstanding. Tomato, tomato. But I just think that a lot of presenters don't get it. They don't understand why it matters. They just think open, close stories and points.

And I think also, to be honest, not knocking Toastmasters, because Toastmasters will teach you how to be a better speaker. But what often happens is that is the benchmark that's offered particularly for brand new speakers. We're reaching out to presenters, to pastors, to leaders, and at the level at which you want to present, you don't want to have a basic, simple structure that everyone says, yep, open, tell a story, make a point. I'm going to talk about this. I did, Here it is, goodbye. But when you structure it well and make sure you have the right parts, the composite parts, the components of a well constructed speech, you create greater value, you create deeper thought for your audience and they get to look at what you have to offer from different perspectives, bearing in mind what you don't think about when you do open. Tell a story, make a point, tell a story, make a point, tell us to make a point, close. When you do open, I'm going to tell you this, I tell you this, I told you that close. You don't consider that there are different learning styles as well with your audience. People need to see things from different vantage points to get it. So when you structure your speech well, you'll find ways to make sure, almost ensure you cover almost everybody in the audience and their learning styles as well. What do you think about that, Mr. Lacroix?

Again, well said. Also, just want to caution people who are Toastmasters, Mark and I are still Toastmasters, we're still paid members of Toastmasters and Still active at the beginning, Toastmasters has its place. And at the beginning, all you can handle is tell them what you're gonna tell them, Tell them, tell them what you told them. And that's also a five minute speech. So that's different from a one hour or a 35 minute sermon. That's a different structure because if you apply that to 35 minutes or 45 minutes, that gives you a lot of leeway to confuse people. So to be clear, at the beginning, you're so nervous and you have so much anxiety, that's all you can handle. So at the beginning, that's a good thing.

It is.

Mark and I are here to address people who are skilled, who do have confidence, who do have some stage presence and know what they're doing, how they can go from good to unforgettable. That's the point of this. So please do not misunderstand that we're not dissing Toastmasters. That's the starting point. That's good.

No question about that. I can't reiterate that enough. Darren. Thank you for clarifying that point. It's very important to catch that we're looking at some of the mistakes that people have been making. Look. That we have made too, when we were in our career, certainly when we were younger and earlier. And at times we all make mistakes. But I did notice one in particular, Darren, that I thought, I think you and I need to spend a little bit of time on. And it's creating an anticlimactic finish because of how a presentation is structured. It may seem like a little bit off topic, but I can remember a couple months ago, my wife Andrea, who, you know, Darren, is a pretty decent cook, was involved in a chili cook off at a farm in the middle of Georgia here in the countryside. And there were several entrants. And when they finally made their decision, the judge came to announce the winners. And the judge said, okay, in first place, John, and in second place, Nancy, and in third place, Pullison. And we're going. Wait, you announce first, then second, then third. There's no suspense.

Yeah, there's crickets. No one's listening. Once first is announced, no one cares about two and three.

You want to do third first? Okay. We can't wait. Who was second and then second. And our winner is. Drum roll, please. We've all seen that, but we may think it's a funny story. But the question is, Darren, is it possible, Is it likely, Is it probable that some presenters don't think in the same way as they prepare a presentation. And unbeknownst to them, they don't realize they really are giving us an anticlimactic finish. They're giving us the first place, first, second, and then ending on the third. And that can happen easily if we don't adhere to a decent structure in our presentation. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I would never do that because you're Darren Lacroix. I mean, if you're sitting here listening and you hear, well, obviously they should announce the preble. 3, 2, 1. Yeah, but let's look at your 3, 2, 1. What's your 3? What's your 2? What's your 1? Are you actually doing that way? And I bring that up because. Guilty. Mr. 2001. Before Mark. There's before Mark and after Mark.

Oh, wow. Thank you.

Not to be confused with aftermarket.

Boom, boom. Okay.

When I brought my speech to Mark, I had a fall at the opening, which was really good, drew people's attention in, got them engaged with my premise, and it worked. And then Mr. Overly Legally Logical, I had a second fall right in the middle of my speech. And then I was gonna go on and explain the difference, and I had this poignant quote that I thought was poignant. Nobody else did. I would go on and on, and it was just not right. It was anticlimactic because it was such a powerful second point. My other fall in a certain direction, falling forward, that after that it just. It was anticlimactic is the best way. Mark, your thoughts on that.

When we talked about that the first time I saw it, I saw the value in falling on your face. One, because it was a physical act to support a metaphor of falling on your face. It was very effective as an opening, and you wanted to use it a second time to reinforce what happened, but show how you changed over time. And it wasn't wrong to have a second fall. However, when I said to you, Darren, move that fall to the end, it became more climactic. It became more physically visually impactful, and it gave you the opportunity to leave your last line, go ahead and fall, fall forward, as truly a high point of the presentation. And people remember to fall as the opening and a close. It served as a bit of a bookend, if you want to call it that. In truth, had you done the fall in the middle of the speech, anything you had done afterwards would have been anticlimactic. I'll give you a case in point. In a presentation that wasn't a speech, but it was actually a trial. It was a trial of O.J. simpson back in the mid-1990s, and one of the lawyers and the prosecution had a great line that they were going to use to sway the audience about Ron Goldman, the victims, and Nicole Brown Simpson. And the line went something like this. Ron Goldman was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nicole Brown Simpson was in the wrong place for a long time. And then he kept going. Yes, he. I was going. No, no, he kept going. And the impact of that line was lost structurally. That should have been his punch line and delivered at the end of the presentation. So when he was structuring his remarks to the judge and to the jury, had he considered what would have been the most appropriate place structurally to deliver this impactful line, he would have realized that's when he should have shut his mouth and sat down with that. Exactly. With the audiences with that line resonating in their minds about the impact of this horrific crime, it's not the best example, but it really shows the power of structuring your presentation to deliver the power at the end. And that's why I'm happy you made that change. Because to this day, people still remember not only the first four, but go ahead and fall, Fall forward. And having that second fall at the end of your presentation structurally really made the speech stand strong and deliver the whole arc of the presentation. It really seemed to flow smoothly, seamlessly, and led them on the journey where they needed to be. That's why we need to make sure we structure it properly. If we don't, we're going to have our audience trying to disassemble and reassemble in a way that's cohesive and makes sense to them. And while they're off trying to do that, you're still talking. They're going to miss something else that you say. So your structure has to really be in place to create the environment where the audience follows seamlessly and they get the powerful impact in the right place in your presentation. I bet you never did that again.

Well, here's the thing where a lot of us don't know. We don't know what our 3, 2, 1 is. I love using that as the example that's going to lead me to next mistake is not testing your structure. We've got to get out there and execute it. And that's why I love Toastmasters. It's a great place to work things out, but we've got to get some qualified feedback. And either from an audience or from a coach, I don't care. But we've got to see if the structure we Come up with is truly clear, understandable, allows our message to be digestible and in the best order to deliver that. Case in point, after I won the world championship, I created a brand new keynote called the path to powerful Presentations. And I laid it all out, Mr. Logical. And now this is the first time I'm really structuring a keynote. Before that, I had a keynote, but it was tell a story, make a point, Tell a story, make a point, Tell a story, make a point, Tell a story, make a point, tell a story, make a point. The more time I had, the more stories and more points. The less time I had, the fewer stories and fewer points.

17 points.

Thank you, Darren. And so when I started giving this, we've got to be aware. This is why recording. Mark and I are big fans of recording your presentation. So you can go back and listen to see, really, where did you get the reactions? What really resonated? And then what people say to you after. If you keep the recorder going whenever people come up to you after. So, oh, that was great. That was awesome. Ask them what part. What part was powerful to you, and then shut up and let them talk. Because when I was doing the Path to powerful Presentations, this was a body language observation, which is also big and important. I would have this moment where I talked about the cherry tree effect. I had to pull it out of my championship speech because it was just off track. It wasn't the main point of being there. So I pulled it out. So when I got the keynote, it was my favorite part. I could put it back in because now I had 45 minutes. The challenge was, whenever I said, before you sit down to write your speech, ask yourself this question. What do I want my audience to think about differently when you're done? Or what do I want my audience to think about differently when I'm done? And when I would say that, I saw the aha's in the audience's mind and one third of the audience grabbed their pen, leaned down and wrote that one out. They wrote out that keeper. And it kept happening and kept happening. And I was like, huh, maybe that's a better close. So I pulled it out. Ironically, it actually fit better to bring everything together as well. So we as presenters, even though we got a good clear structure, we might not have the strongest structure. Go from clear to strong. They should feng shui together, which is what's gonna make it strong. So for me, it was only by testing and giving the speech did I realize that had to move to the end.

Mark, I got a question. For you, Darren, as a humorist and a comedian, have you ever had like a small story? You worked on it for a routine and you had to ever figure it out? You know what? I thought the punchline was this, but really a better punchline for that particular story is that. I mean, in terms of your process, trying to find the best way to make the humor come out, do you ever have those questions in your mind or ask yourself, you know, if I move that there and make that the punchline, it'll probably rock more. I mean, do you ever do that or. I'm just curious.

Absolutely. We should always be doing that. You know, great speeches aren't written, they're rewritten. But great jokes aren't written, they're rewritten. Great punchlines and stories aren't written, they're rewritten. So sometimes I sit down and try to say, okay, what's a better way to say this?

Okay.

But sometimes in the moment I come up with a better way to say it. And that's why recording is so good. Because sometimes it happens in the moment when you're completely connected. For example, Dave Fitzgerald, my comedy mentor, he had this great routine about his buddy bought a new motorcycle. And as, as guys are when they buy a new toy like that, they buy the costume that goes with it, the chaps. Chaps, yeah, the color coordinated goes with the motorcycle. That's why it's kind of funny, because he calls it the costume to be color coordinated with the motorcycle. And he's making light of that. And he said his buddy ran out of money and he didn't have enough money to buy a helmet for him as the rider on the back. And he goes, you know, it wasn't really my dream to be snuggled up to my buddy Joey on the back of a motorcycle either. So he makes light of that. It's a very funny routine. This isn't the place to redo the routine, but he initially said that he had a colander on his head because his buddy ran out of money. So he had a colander on his head and he said it was perfect because it had the two handles and he just grabbed a shoestring to go between the two handles to hold it on his head. So it worked, it gave us a visual. But he had used the word colander over time. As a comedian, as a world class presenter, we're always thinking, how do I make it better? How do I make it better? And his wife at the time was Italian, loved to cook, and they were in the kitchen one day and she Said, hey, Dave, go grab me the macaroni strainer. He's like, what? Macaroni strainer is funnier than colander, Right? Macaroni strainer is funnier than colander. Not only are we putting the punch word at the end, but now we're looking for always a better punch word in the structure of that presentation. So macaroni strainer is funnier for two reasons. One, it's a funnier word. The alliteration is funnier. Macaroni is funnier than colander. And number two, it gives a better visual. Visual because a lot of guys don't know what a colander is, so they can't picture it. But a macaroni strainer, everyone knows what a strainer is. So we have that as a frame of reference for two reasons. We have that convergence on the punch word. Getting into the humor side of it, but anyway, yes, Mark, long way to go for that answer. I could have just said yes, but yeah, I know.

The reason why I ask is you told me before, when you told our attendees on the weekend in Las Vegas, at our workshop, you said that even great comedians test. And your point is? Many of us fail to test to make sure our structure is right. And you told me example of the great comedian, former Tonight show host Jay Leno, who was big on testing to make sure everything he had was gonna work properly. He'd write them up, but he would test them. The idea of making sure that we test, is it in the right sequence? Are we structuring correctly? Will my audience be going off on a tangent? I think that was why I wanted to make sure the concept you point out of significance of testing to make sure everything fits in the right way. Maybe think of what you said about Jay Leno and going to comedy clubs just to make sure his routines are going to work. So thank you for sharing that. You want to make sure that you don't just go off and have the audience wondering what's going wrong. I got one more thought for you on mistakes.

One more mistake. Yes.

And I've seen where some presenters will introduce an idea, a concept, a character or something that would seem significant at the very end before they close their presentation. Have you seen that before as well? I guess you have.

It's scary. You can't introduce a major concept if you're running out of time, especially if they change your time. That's why structure is so important, especially for us on the professional stage. We have to be able to change our structure based on the time that they allot us. And sometimes they might shorten our time on our way to the stage. Like, I love what Craig Valentine says about this. He said, you know, if they give me an hour, it's the four R's. To remarkable results. If they give me 45 minutes, it's the three R's. If they give me 30 minutes, it's the two R's. If they cut it any less than that, it's the R. But either way, it's clear. And what a lot of people will do is instead of shortening their Rs, they'll shorten the evidence to make the Rs memorable. Yeah.

So it goes both ways. When you have to shorten it, you shorten it wisely. But at the same time, you don't want to add at the very end, introduce a new character, and you can't develop that character. We don't see the significance of that character or the impact of that character. And if you want them to be significant, maybe structurally, what you need to do is to introduce them earlier to give the audience time to get acquainted with them and to see the impact and significance that they can have on the characters, on the story, and ultimately on the entire presentation. I happily, I haven't seen too many pastors do that, but I have seen where people would just randomly add somebody and they were a great guy to meet. But we don't develop the. You don't develop the character. We don't see the true impact that they can have. But a proper structure allows you to look at what you have and determine, ah, we need to put him here because his role is important in these two or three ways or in this one way. And again, it flows more seamlessly and smoothly and the audience gets it the same with a concept or an idea. Some people think I'm going to hit him with my best material at the very, very end. But if you don't, you know, you always save the best for last. But if you don't do it in a strategic way, the potential impact can be lost. It is very important to understand how structure can help you. So the question becomes, in Darren, if we have no mistakes to share at this time, what do we need to do?

Well, Mark, let me back you up just a second, because when we were. I'm backing up, see, you have built in sound effects. I can't do that. I need a machine. So, Mark, on that last point, that last mistake, you said something brilliant. When we were putting this together, this podcast, you said that if we introduce a major concept Too late or a character too late. We not only cause confusion, but what are we assuming that the audience can do?

They can disassemble and reassemble in a way that it's cohesive and makes sense to them. Because now they're gonna. Okay, sky out. What if this idea or concept had been placed before or earlier? I as an audience member now have to try to restructuring my brain how that fits, because now it's in the wrong place. And you thought you would be doing me a favor by giving me your best concept late, but had you given it to me earlier, I could then apply that to everything else you've taught me. And now it leads to a cohesive end where I can say, okay, now it makes sense and I can act upon that, I can use that, I can change my life around that. But it has to be done structurally in a way that reduces the potential of giving the audience more work to do.

It's like, okay, so, ooh, they just cut my time. I've only got two minutes. So let me leave you with this. The meaning of life. Believe in yourself. Okay, gotta go. See ya.

Don't tell me you've ever even thought to do that, Darren.

Not intentionally, but early on I didn't know any better, which is one of the reasons we're doing this podcast. So, Mark, let's move over real quick.

Real quick. To be honest, we're not just preaching at you people because we admit we have done these mistakes, we have made them ourselves. And all cheesy sound effects aside, we believe that what we've learned can really, really help everyone who listens to this become better on the platform. So we're not preaching at you, we're confessing our sins to you. Go ahead, Darren.

Final idea is the must have. So what is important in a strong structure. Again, we do a whole two day event on this, but want to give you some, leave you with some important highlights.

Mark, first of all, there has to be a premise to your presentation. You don't just go and say, I was asked to say a few words, I'll wing it. And believe me, we have met people who admit and confess to us, even in our workshops. Yeah, I'm a kind of winged kind of guy. I won't say Darren is a winged kind of guy. And I know you have been at times. Hey, Mark, I'm spontaneous, I'm in the moment. Hey, I gotta do this. I'm in the moment. You did confess to being that guy.

I was passionately pointless.

Pointedly pointless. But if we Have a premise, an idea, a thought, a concept that we want to leave with the audience to one we want to imprint on their brain, on their psyche, in their hearts, and to improve their lives. That that's the first thing that you need to have a premise. How do you define the premise, Darren?

Again, I yield to Patricia on that. The premise is the thought or the idea that you're selling. The thought or the idea that you're selling. So Mark, when you and I do the two day event, the thought or the idea that we're selling, whether it's an hour or two days, was every presenter can create a world class presentation. And as I learned from Patricia, a good premise gets the audience to lean in and say, how? How do I do that? Perfect. Now they're leaning in. Unfortunately, with poor structure or not thinking it through ahead of time, people cross their arms and lean back, think, I've heard all this before. I don't believe this person. They're full of it.

Blah, blah, blah, oh, I don't want to be here. That's true. But one of the cool things about that is, Darren, once you can start off establishing a premise for your presentation and the audience finds themselves leaning in, the arms are uncrossed, their heads are forward, their pens or pencils are poised and raised to take notes. That in itself will tell you, okay, I've gotten them to step one on this journey. I need to make sure my next step is the right step, not a giant leap 85 miles ahead. But I've got to give them something valuable next, which means I got to share concepts or ideas to give them value along this journey. I state the premise. Every presenter can create world class presentations. They're not verbally saying it, they're asking you, well, how? So then you must then give them tools, techniques, concepts, ideas, methodology for producing the result you want them to have. I may call them concepts, I may call them principles, I may call them ideas, but you have to have structurally, it must follow that they must have something that they can use to achieve the goal you promise that they will when they come to your presentation. Well, Mark, time out. Wait. I'm a pastor. I'm a minister. Well, your sermon, your message, your. Your four points, your four sermon series has an objective, has a premise, has an idea you want the audience to buy into, to transform their lives or to change their lives or to adjust the way they live by their faith. So yes, there is a concept idea that you are providing for them, not so much selling, but the idea is the same. Therefore the structure would be the same. The same way for an attorney who's trying to convince a jury of a point of view, he must have a premise for which he stands on and concepts which he must share with them to prove what he's trying to say. Any thoughts on that, Darren?

I agree.

He concurs. He concurs.

So the concepts that we need to give them need to also be uniquely ours. It may be universal principles, but when we give a concept, we kind of have to have our angle on the universal principle, and that's why we're there. What's your proof? Why should we listen to you? Well, what have you done? What have you accomplished? And then being what we call the thought leader, that's what they want as a thought leader. Well, thought leaders have concepts, but you can't just say a concept and assume someone will get it. We've got to prove. Prove the concept from three different directions.

Because why three, though, Darren?

We're trying to get it into the subconscious mind. And we have the emotional people who are sitting there in our audience. Oh, tell me a story. We have the skeptics who. Yeah, I tried that. Okay, well, why is yours different? Why is yours worth trying? We've got the analytical person who wants the source. Where did that come from? Well, what study? Well, was it a proper study? Was it a scientific study? We've got to realize that all these different people are sitting in front of us. We've got the brand new person who needs hope. We've got the experienced person who's heard it all before. Okay, so how are we gonna get our concept across to each of them? Mark, when you and I do the events, we have people in front of us, our workshop attendees. They have a name tag. And towards us it gives us their name. But towards them, we have all the different types of people in their audience to remind them when they're creating presentations. They've gotta help each of these people.

That's powerful because you're right. And you mentioned different learning styles as well, and I didn't really grasp this until later in my career. When you want to give proof to your concept or idea, if you can find different ways to provide it for different learning styles. Some people are highly visual. They love some PowerPoint slides and they want infographics. Others, you're right, they want to hear the story and some really want to connect with you emotionally. They want to hear your story. If they can bond with you, the speaker, that makes you that much more credible to them. So think about this structurally it's not just enough to say, here's the idea, preach to him and move, move on. It's also important that they get the proof into their understanding where they can embrace what you have to say and then apply the lessons you're trying to share with them and the principles you want to teach them. It's important to really catch that in your structure as well. The concept and the proof to support it.

Yeah. The premise, the thought or the idea you're selling that gets the audience to lean in and say, well, how? And then the concepts that you're giving them, those new thoughts, those new ideas, and then you've got to prove those with different pieces of evidence from different directions. When I teach stage time. Stage time. Stage time. I tell a story of how Vinnie in the back of a comedy club got me to understand stage time. I talked about Toastmasters and I talked about my trips to Maine for driving, two and a half hours for five minutes for free. So all three of those stories point back to the one idea. Never turn down stage time.

Definitely. We want you to think about your presentation, your sermon, your message. What different ways can you make sure your varying audience learning styles can get your message? And maybe right now you're listening to this and you're in the middle of working on a presentation and you get an aha here. Really think about this. Different people can get the message with different styles. Think about that and try to apply it as you go forward, because that way you can really make sure everyone understands exactly where you're going with this. They will then feel the need to act appropriately based upon what you share. And that action piece is really important, Darren.

Yeah. So third idea, and must have is have a call to action. A clear call to action. Now, if you're listening, I know you've heard that before, then why do we not see that in every single presentation? Everyone's heard it. Why do so few people do it? Like, if you're a pastor, what's the one thing you want us to do? Maybe it's ask for help. Maybe it's read the Bible every day. Maybe it's come join a men's group or a woman's group. Yeah. If you're giving your keynote presentation, maybe it's go get my book. This is just the scratching the surface. Maybe it's ask a friend. Maybe it's sit down with your boss, whatever your idea is. What's that one idea, that one next step? And I think it's. I think it's our responsibility to give our Audience that one next step. If we get them excited, what are they going to do with that excitement?

Mark, people say call to action. It sounds almost superfluous. We often ask our clients, our students and those who work with us to ask yourselves a question. When it's all said and done, what do you want the audience to think, to feel and to do after they hear you present? Because you need to structure your presentation in a way that when they walk away, it'll be more than that was nice. He was funny. Said a great voice, Love them shoes.

Wow.

That presenter had an impact on my life. They made me choose to do something differently as a result of that presentation. It has to be some kind of action that they take as a result of having heard you present. And there must be a clear. Darren said it very closely. He said clear call to action. Don't make it too nebulous. And it may not be a massive, life changing, world changing call to action. It could simply be go out and call your loved ones. Don't wait till it's too late. That could be a simple call. Pick up the phone. Could be a call to action. It could be a stop doing something right. Could be a call to action. But it's a call to make some kind of change validated by the value of what you have to offer, the credibility of your stories and the evidence you've presented to prove it. And it all has to flow seamlessly and sequentially, well structured with the objective in mind. That's what's really important.

All right, so to recap, what is strong structure, clear structure, the order and the framework of your presentation. Number two, why does it matter? To make your audience message more digestible to the audience. And then three, the mistakes. We covered six different mistakes that we see over and over again. And then finally the must haves. You gotta have that clear premise in order to build your speech. You've gotta have that concept conditioned with the proof to prove it in the court of the audience's mind.

That I love that.

Yes. That this truly concept will help you get what the premise. What's the premise? How do I do that? The three concepts are how to do that. And then again, three pieces of evidence and finally your clear call to action. What are they gonna do now after you get them all jacked up? If this made sense, if you want the whole process, go check out stagetimeworkshops.com and you can check out the recordings of that two day event that Mark and I had. So by all means, that's one idea. That's our clear call to action. If you truly want to go deeper in this subject and have the step by step process. Mark covered and I covered as much as we could in this time to just get you excited in understanding the power of structure. Next call to action. Two calls to action. Join us next week when we are going to sit down with Mr. Experience, Mark Camp, who is a human experience. When you get around him, yeah, he's the king of audience engagement. So we're Mark and I are going to sit down with him to see who he chooses to go up on stage with him, how he does it, how long he does it, all the different questions like go check out marvelousmark.com and check out his demo tape. It's brilliant. It's him. He's very unique in his own way. So I hope you look forward to joining us next week for Mark Inside Story. So Mark Brown, what are the keepers from this week?

Well, you already gave a couple of them very quickly. One was this is a long one but you want to avoid giving the audience the responsibility to disassemble and reassemble your thoughts in a way that is cohesive or makes sense to them. The key for is make make sure your structure is so well defined they don't have to disassemble and reassemble. One keeper avoid adding characters and concepts at the end of your speech before you're able to fully develop them. Again, structure the order and framework. Keep that in mind. Those are the main keepers that I got hearing you talk, my friend. And one last thought. Never devalue the importance and significance of of good structure because that is the roadmap through which you will take your audience to get to your ultimate destination which is your call to action.

All right, let's be clear. Join us next week when we sit down with Mark Camp the stories, the strategies behind some unforgettable presentations. Hey Mark, thanks for joining me. We'll see you next week.

Bye.

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