Ep. 166 Going Pro with Jim Cathcart

Hey there, Mark Brown. We have a lot of people who are emerging presenters and we have a lot of people who are professional, world class presenters who still listen in and always trying to improve their game. I saw an interview recently on YouTube with Kobe Bryant and he talked so much about when he was at the beginning, he had some natural talent, he had some height, he was a little skinny, but he focused on the fundamentals. And I know when some people hear the fundamentals, they think, oh, wow, this is going to be boring. But if we. You don't become that perpetual student to be that sponge to say, hey, maybe things aren't working, maybe things could get better. What could I do? So, Mark Brown we're gonna sit down with again. This is like the first third timer, I think.

Yeah, right.

To join us on the podcast and thrilled to have Jim Cathcart. We are gonna talk about going pro.

Let's do this.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unfor. Unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches. Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time.

Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. Ahas. Let's dive right in.

So, Mark, we're in Nashville, we're having a cup of coffee for breakfast, and Jim Cathcart literally opens up a piece of paper with all these notes on it. And he talks about the top 100 people he wanted to be connected to. And my name was on there. I almost teared up. And when Jim Cathcart talks, I take notes. So I took a lot of notes at that breakfast. Good morning, Jim Cathcart. Welcome.

Good morning. Great to be back. Third time back. That's pretty cool.

That's.

Hey, they say the third one's a charm, Jim. And you know, Darren always chides me for being a bad punster, but he said earlier, you gotta focus on the fundamentals. What our audience is gonna learn today is that Jim Cathcart put fun in fundamental. Wouldn't you agree, Darren?

Thank you, guys.

Well, sometimes it's a big mystery on going pro. How do you get started? How do you truly go from, look, I'm a really good presenter to look, I'm going to get paid, or I'm going to get paid a lot, or I'm going to get paid a lot more. So I thought this would be perfect. To sit down, because this is one of his areas of expertise that he teaches. And so, Jim Cathcart, welcome.

Thank you. Thank you both. You know, it's. It's coincidental in a really, really nice way. This year, I spoke in Nashville as the opening keynote speaker for Toastmasters International. So it was their world convention, 149 countries, and they were all there, you know, represented there. And I did my keynote speech. It was the third time I had been on their main platform. 1995, 27 years ago, I won the world title.

It was 90 wanted that year.

Yeah. And I was. I was the keynote speaker that year. And then in 2001, when Darren won it, I was the golden gavel recipient. Main platform 20, 22. Back again after 21 years. And when I opened the speech, I walked out on stage and said, as I was saying in 2001.

Nice. Well, Jim, we're. We're thrilled to have you here. And I think to some people it's a mystery, or they don't realize everybody's journey's a little different. So sometimes we have envy of, wow. Well, they're getting paid a lot more. And then we have that problem where we compare ourselves, which is never good. So, Jim, we want to sit down with you and talk about going pro. What is, what does the legend say about going pro?

Well, first off, in any field, there are lots and lots and lots of players, lots of people involved in that field, whether it's transmission repair or professional speaking or, you know, name your poison. But there are very few in that field who have decided, I'm going to be a professional, I'm going pro. In other words, no more amateur play. I'm doing this for pay, doing it seriously. All of a sudden, I'm going to, you know, turn on the dial at the timer and. And have records being kept about what I do. I'm taking it seriously. And when you do that, the rules change the expectations on yourself, change the standards that you have to operate by, change the measures, the things you measure yourself against change. And so you've truly got to raise your game. So what does that mean? Well, the day, back in the 19, hesitate to say it 70s, when I decided I was going to go pro and become a professional speaker. I had been a trainer and a speaker and for free and for whatever fee they happen to have for a long time. And I'd worked in the JCS and worked in the community at civic clubs and. And little company meetings, and I was selling Earl Nightingale's motivational tapes door to door to businesses in Little Rock, Arkansas. And finally I decided, I'm going pro. I'm all in. This is what I'm going to do. And people said to me, jim, how do you know you're going to succeed? I said, because I'm not going to quit until I ever do. They said, well, what do you mean? What if it's too hard? Then it's too hard. What if it costs too much? Then I can't afford it yet. You know, it's all yet, yet, yet, because I'm going to stay the course. And I did. And I went from being somebody who had never given a speech and certainly had nothing worth paying to hear, to someone who's earned many, many, many thousands of dollars for speeches all over the world. 3,300 paid engagements around the world, three separate times on lecture tours, 23 major cities in mainland China. I've written 23 books. I've received every award that the speaking industry holds, aside from the world championship, which you two both achieved. But that was because I wasn't a member of Toastmasters. I received the golden gavel from them, but that was the award they give to outsiders like my hero Earl Nightingale and Zig Ziglar and some of those other folks along the way. So that's what going pro is all about. It's, what do you do when you get serious and you decide, I'm going to make it in this field?

That is a very bold statement to make. And as Darren said, we have individuals who we. We know, who we work with, who we coach, who we train, who are saying, you know what? I'm going to be all in. And in fairness to Darren, he has been promoting the idea of all in for the last several months, and the.

Results have been lives in Vegas. So all in is a daily.

Exactly.

Metaphor.

So someone says to you, hey, Jim, I want to go pro. I'm all in, and I want to make it big right now. What one bit of initial advice would you offer someone with that mindset who's really fired up?

Well, first off, burn your ships. In other words, you know, don't leave yourself an exit. Consider that the bridges behind you, the ships you came in on or whatever, are no longer an option for you. You're only going forward. And it may be painful, it may be expensive, it may take longer, but you're going to do it. So if you're serious, if you've decided to succeed, you know what you will. That is the single distinguishing factor of successful people, those who sustain a success or those who decided to do so. Everything else was committee work. So the first thing I tell people to do is, is if you're really, really serious about it, then let's, let's identify your level of aspiration. Because there are different levels of going pro. You could say, I'm on a golfer and I'm going to go pro. Does that mean you're going to be the pro at the local club or does that mean you're going to compete with Tiger Woods? There's a huge difference in those two. So I tell people, here are the levels. The lowest level which is acceptable is competence. To be good at it, to be able to do it, to be able to sit at the big kids table and not feel like an outsider, right? The next level is excellence. And that's where you not only can do it, but you can do it so well that occasionally the real players look over you and say, hey, nice job. Okay? The next level beyond that is mastery. And that's where they not only look over at you and say, nice job, Mark, but hey, I've been meaning to ask your advice, you know, or Darren, come here. I'd like your opinion on this. That's when you know you've achieved mastery. So it goes from competence to excellence to mastery. Next level, leading authority. Where they say, well, let's see, let's see what Jim says about this, right? So it's not just asking the advice of the other person and respecting it, but it's your voice carries the distance, right? Leading authority. The next level beyond that is celebrity. Where you're in the news, where your name is known, people talk about you. The next level beyond celebrity is star. Oh my gosh, here he or she comes. Everybody knows this person. They're the star. If they're on a platform, they're the one that all the attention's going to, right? If there are five speakers on stage, people notice them first. And the next level beyond that, which I would consider the ultimate level, is superstar. Now it's okay to want to be a superstar, like a Tony Robbins, you know, that's fine, or like a Carrie Underwood or something. But recognize that if you choose that as your goal, it's going to take every fiber of your being in every element of your life for as long as you can do it. So that's all in. My brother in law, when he was a little kid said he wanted to be an astronaut because we had just landed on the moon about that time. And so astronauts were in all the news and they were the heroes. And he did all the things he needed to do to get to the Air Force Academy and major in astronautical engineering. But when he graduated, he became a pilot and instructor pilot and instructor of instructor pilots. And then he went to work for Delta Airlines for the rest of his career. What? You know, I said, sam, what about astronaut? He said, jim, I didn't know what an astronaut was. When I was 11 years old, I just wanted to fly airplanes, and now I've got a life of doing that. And he's close to retirement age now and, you know, still happily flying planes all over the world. Now, how big was his world have been had he not set the goal in the first place and decided he was all in? See, he had a reason to be the valedictorian of his high school class, to be the one who delivered the commencement address. To be a guy who, despite his dad working in his factory and his mom taking in laundry to help pay the bills, was able to get an appointment to the Air Force Academy and to West Point. Wow. Right? So when you're all in, you need to understand what level of all in you're going for. So when it comes to playing guitar and singing, I do that professionally, but it's my side gig, and I'm competent. There may be a couple of songs I can do at an excellent level, but I'm content to just be competent. To be able to get on stage with some major famous performer and hold my own and not necessarily outshine them, but just hold my own. That's fine. And that. That meets the needs of my heart. Right. But when it comes to professional speaking, I want to be a player. I don't want to just be competent or excellent or achieve mastery. I want to be one of the leading authorities. I want to be a guy who other people quote, and other people say, hey, what does Jim Cathcart have to say about this? So I went from being a clerk at the Housing Authority in Little rock, Arkansas, for 500 bucks a month to being president of the National Speakers association and then inducted into the speaker hall of Fame and the Sales and Marketing hall of Fame very intentionally by doing the things required for going pro all those years.

That's big. That's big.

Yeah.

I didn't even think of the level that you're trying to get to. And then. And then you went to celebrity. I was like, oh, there's the top and star. And okay, there you go. I didn't think of start then. Super. I was like, yeah, there's more levels.

Patricia Fripp I would consider to be a star or a celebrity. Right. And she earned her stripes. She became competent, excellent, achieved mastery and so forth, and then became a leading authority on speaking and then continued to progress up because she was so doggone good and so lovable in the way she went about it. Right. But superstar has never been an aspiration of hers. Same thing's true for her brother. He's one of the world's great masters of guitar. Yeah, and his group, King Crimson, became famous, but they weren't trying to be the Rolling Stones or the Beatles. They wanted the purity of the music. They wanted their performance to be what it was they were hoping it would be. Not. Not nearly as worried about how much press time they got in the media. And here he is in his, what, 60s, still going strong.

And you've obviously seen so many people come to the top and rise to the top. You've seen so many careers and go.

Back down to the bottom.

What are some of the mistakes you see of people who, let's just say, want it but haven't actually made that decision?

Well, the first symptom you'll see is that there's a lack of integrity, meaning some part of this picture doesn't fit. I can't tell what's wrong yet, but the more I look at it, there's something wrong. Right? And it may be their personal life, it may be their behavior off the platform. It may be that they're stealing someone else's materials and you don't know it yet. It could be that they're. They're not taking time to understand their audience. And so when they get on the stage, maybe it's a good speech, but they didn't tailor it to anybody. Then maybe they even mispronounced Lacroix, you know, when they were referring to one of the people in the organization. So, Lacroix. So those are things that you can tell. And. And they're not. Also, they're not willing to do the grunt work. They're not willing to do the. The drudgery that's required. Like, when I get a booking, even an inquiry, many times I'll go to that client's website and I'll read every page. They may have 37 pages. I will read every page. I will click on each bio and scan down that bio and look for things noteworthy, you know, like went to Notre Dame or. Or graduated from the Sorbonne or without a high school diploma, achieved X, Y and Z, so that when I get on the phone with them next, I'M fluid talking about their products, their markets, their people, their. Their world. And they go, where'd you learn all.

This on your website?

There you go. That's what professionals do.

Yeah, but like you're saying, most people won't take the time. They don't think, well, is it really matter? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let me tell you about one celebrity. I'm not going to mention the name, but it was an Olympic star. Don't try to guess, because it goes back generations, but it was an Olympic star who was professional speaker and highly paid and famous and believed that it was cool to trust karma to keep him on his commitments. And so he would show up at a speaking engagement, having taken the last available flight into that city. I booked him for the National Speakers association in Chicago one year, our annual meeting. I was a convention chair, and I was sitting there in the hallway looking at my watch, and he's not in the hotel yet, and I haven't heard from him. And so I've got a backup speaker for his spot, which is a big main stage spot. And the backup speaker is doing vocal exercises and getting ready to come on the platform. And here he comes strutting down the hallway as if nothing's going on. I said, where in the world have you been? He said, oh, I always take the last available flight because I know that the power of my mind, I can, you know, I can will it to get me there on time. Wow. And I thought, you arrogant. How dare you care so little about us that you want to just show off your optimism and positive thinking instead of assuring us that you're in the building on time, prepared and ready. And I don't have somebody else out there that I'm going to have to grab by the collar and say, hey, never mind, he's here. You know, that's. That's the difference between a professional and a jerk.

Tell us how you really feel, Jim. So the lesson there is one. We want to research our prospects. If you want to be a pro and also always respect your client and.

Your audience, that's that.

That's goal right there.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Another thing about it is if you want to be a professional. No, when you decide to be a professional, forget about want. Everybody wants things like the will to win is wanting to win as far as most people consider it. But that's not how winners think. They have the will to prepare, the will to endure, the will to resist temptation, the will to put up with disappointments and heartbreaks, the will to do the things that add up to winning. The desire to win is universal. Everybody wants that. Well, same thing about being a professional. If you've decided you're going pro, then take this formula. V I D A H V I D A H. Become more valuable in everything you do to your clients, to your co workers, to everybody. Become more valuable in everything you do. Become more intentional in everything you do. Do it that way because you know that's the way that's going to work. That's the way that's proven. That's the way you meant to do it. Right? More disciplined about every single thing you do. Don't turn everything into work, but be disciplined about doing it right. You know, if you're going to brush your teeth, might as well do it to keep all of them. It's like the old line, you know, the guy asked the dentist, should I floss my teeth? And if so, which one should I floss? Well, just floss the ones you want to keep, right? That's the joke. So V I D A H Valuable, intentional, disciplined. And then become more accountable in everything you do. In other words, publish your numbers. Show, you know, be open about things, at least to yourself and your co workers, whether it's to the public or not, in a matter of what's appropriate. But be accountable, be willing to be, no demand to be held accountable for everything you do and stand behind your work. Right. And your performance and your behavior. And then finally be more honorable in the way you do everything. Do it with dignity, do it with respect and admiration for other people. And if you're more valuable, intentional, disciplined, accountable and honorable on everything you do, I'll guarantee you the world's your oyster. You will succeed and you will succeed at a very high level.

Wow. These characteristics really are the epitome of what it means to be professional. Darren?

Yeah. So Jim, when somebody makes the decision to go pro, like I really want to do this, I love being on stage. I am all in. What are some of the new habits they need to create? Because if they haven't been pro, they don't know what habits are important. What do I need to do with my time? So what would you say to that?

Well, the first thing I do is I take things, I take people through a process over an eight week period. You know, I do zoom calls like, like this, this podcast. I do meetings with them on, on video over a period of eight weeks. And then we get together live here in Austin, Texas for two and a half day Mastermind event. But here's what I take them through over the eight weeks, the first, first part of it is about absolutely clarifying the future you that you intend to become. What is your pro version, you know, the more advanced version of you, you know, look like, sound like, feel like and live like. What, what's your day to day work gonna be? What's your day to day life going to be? Who are you going to hang around with? Who's going to know you and, and you you belong to? What kind of contributions are you going to be making to the world? Describe the future you? Because my goal for the whole experience is to get people to be absolutely clear on what they're trying to accomplish and how they're going to do it, have more confidence in doing it and have more courage to face the challenges that they know they're going to face. So number one steps the future you, Number two step gets into the future you. And I call it reputation creation. And that's where we look at every group of people that know you. Your family and family, extended family, your friends, both business friends and social friends, your co workers, your community, your colleagues, your clients, etc, even your competitors. And we define in writing the reputation you want in their minds. When you're not around yet, they're thinking or talking about you. And that's a powerful exercise. The next thing we do is we spend a good deal of focus on identifying what's the one thing, one thing that if you did this consistently and almost exclusively for the next five years, would solve every problem in your life. What one thing, if you focused on it exclusively for the next five years, would transform your very existence. And it's amazing what comes out of that. And then I say, okay, now let's identify from the other people's point of view, from the world looking at you, what's the most valuable thing you do? And we identify not just one necessarily, but the most valuable things that you do. And then we rank them as to what's most and least valuable so that you know where to spend your time and when to spend your time. Right? And then after that there's a little exercise of what should I stop, what should I start, what should I increase, what should I decrease? That's, that's just, you know, common sense but applied in actual action. And then I did a two day in depth interview a few years ago with a man named Tom Vacola. And Tom's a brilliant executive coach. And he came to my home and we sat in my office and for two days he took me back virtually the birth canal and said, tell Me, Everything you remember? Oh, my gosh. Well, I've got 800,000 stories in me. So the poor guy was, you know, on story overload by the end of the two days. But he had been recording them on a series of flip charts. And so we had these pages all over the room of all these little stories and vignettes from my life. And he was identifying the patterns and the milestones, the turning points in that in a way that I never had. And it was fascinating to see. And at the end of it, we came up with a little, what I call my passion and purpose statement. And it's a one paragraph summary of all of that that tells me what I believe the reason I'm alive is and how I can live that in the most meaningful way. My passion and purpose statement. So I lead people through a limited version of that experience and come up with theirs. And then we tend to be a reflection of the people we hang around with the most. It was like Charlie Tremendous Jones said, you're going to be five years from now the same person you are today, except for two things. The books you read and the people you meet. Well, the people you spend your time with. You tend to be the common denominator of the small inner circle of those people. If you change that circle, you change you. If you change it down, there goes your life. If you change it up, there goes your life. Right. So we should be intentional about who we connect with on a regular basis. Some people were just connected with as a matter of course, because of what we do, and that's fine. But when it comes to the ones we're most in touch with, that true inner circle of people in our life, we need to decide who those people ought to be. And even if we don't know them yet, start sending out little energy bursts to connect with them and then to cultivate that connection and make it valuable to them. That's the next exercise I lead people through after. The inner circle is an exercise in defining who's glad they know you, not who you know that counts, not who they know that counts, not who knows you that counts. It's who's glad they know you. So how do you do that? Find out what they want and help them get it. Like Zig Ziglar said, you can get everything in life you want if you help enough other people get what they want. Well, how do you make people glad they know you? Because when you come around, it always looks like good news. You're always bringing something happy into their world. Right? And Then I have an exercise called the Book and you to help people refine the message that they have for the world, whether they're ever going to write a book about it or not. But they could also turn it into a speech, of course. And then the capstone for all this, after I've taught them Spencer Johnson's map to better Decisions. Spencer Johnson wrote who Moved My Cheese and co authored the One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard. He also wrote a book called yes or no the Guide to Better Decisions Decisions. And I collaborated with him on that book. And so I teach people his decision making map. And then we focus on what I call your thought diet. If you want to change your body shape, you go on a food diet. If you want to change your world, you need to go on a thought diet and actually intentionally every day, avoid certain thought patterns and increase other thought patterns. And there's a way to become easily more intentional and disciplined about that that I developed from a lot of other people's advice back in the 1970s and has paid off for thousands and thousands of people ever since. You can read about that in my book, the Acorn Principle, or I can walk you through it as we are in the Going Pro program. But that's basically, that's the, that's the package. That's what I take people through. When they say, jim, I'm ready to go pro, I say, come with me and let's find out how good you could be.

And Jim, I know you have a brand new book out, right?

I always have a brand new book.

Right over your left shoulder there, the High Rev book. Congratulations.

It's right there over my shoulders.

I noticed it. Right, right. Kitty Connor to 17 minutes. Your dream. Well placed.

Thank you.

High Rev for small business.

You go. Nice. The one just before that was intelligent curiosity. 2021. Oh, wow. This one's 2022. This is 2021 with Lisa Patrick. And then in 2020, I had the self motivation Handbook, which has been re released under a new title. It's called the Power Minute. And then I've got two more in the pipeline and one of them is already written. I just need to find a co author who can do the, the legwork part of it. And I'll give them co author status and we'll run with that. And that one's on professional selling.

Wow. So my question to you is. Okay. You know, I heard early on in National Speakers association, you got to write a book. You got to write a book. You got to write a book. I'm like I'm dyslexic. I don't even like to read. But I get it. And I understand now because of that, when you're an author, you looked at differently. What would you say to someone who has an idea for a book? They want to go pro. They're clear on. Let's say they're clear in their keynote. Maybe it's not quite to the level it needs to be, but they want to turn into a book. What was your habit? You write so many. How do you write certain number of pages a day or certain days a week?

No, but that's. A lot of people do that. You know, Stephen King and people like that. They recommend that you have that kind of a discipline for writing, and that's fine. I love writing. I. I like to write articles. I can, you know, someone can say to me, jim, write an article about what? Mark, Give me a. Give me a topic, easy topic. It could be dogs or. Or pyramids. I mean, I don't care what it is.

The power of having your own stuffed animals. The power of your own having your own stuffed animals.

Okay.

Beers and, you know.

All right, Darren, give me an audience. Who am I writing that article to?

The Novelties association of America that sells stuffed animals.

You're making it too easy.

Make it harder, young moms.

Okay, okay. The power of having your own stuffed animal. I'm writing an article right now. Okay. When I was three years old, my teddy bear was named Louie. He was one of three. Huey, Dewey, and Louie, named after the ducks in the Donald. Donald Duck cartoons. And I played with Louis from the time I was 3 until I was about, gosh, 10 or 11, when I was way too old to be playing with stuffed toys. But having that tangible companion, even though it had no life in it whatsoever, allowed me to fantasize and create play scenarios that never would have come up on their own without that stimulus. But there was another value that came to me, and that was the warmth of having that animal to cuddle and to make me feel better when I wanted to be comfortable or when I needed a little bit of nurturing. And there was nobody around to say, that's okay, Jimmy. It's going to be okay. So when you're a child, of course, a stuffed animal is a great plaything, and it's a good, good companion of sorts for a child. But when you're an adult, it can still be a good idea. And let me show you how. See this little guy? This is a hand puppet. Squirrel with an acorn, of course, because I wrote a book called the acorn principle, and I bought this in the Gaylord Hotel in Denver, Colorado a few years ago because an acorn is my company logo. It's a symbol of potential. And I found that the power of a stuffed animal is that it takes you out of your day to day dry print and paper world and into a world where the possibilities are endless, just like when you were 3 years old. How'd I do? Wow.

You just told me, I'm a young mom, that it's okay for my kid to have a stuffed toy because it's not just a toy for distraction. It really can be that much more meaningful to a child if I understand the true value of a stuffed animal. And now I'll probably look at stuffed animals for my husband, my children, my partner, differently because of what you just said. So as a young mom. Thank you.

Yeah, see, so when it comes to writing books, Darren, I don't look at a book as something you must have. I look at it as a excellent business card and a really nice handout. So if I'm doing a speech or a seminar, then I say, everybody should get a copy of this book. And so they buy boxes of books and I go to give the speech and I say, you know, each of you has a copy of my book, the self motivation handbook. By the way, this relieves me of the need to ever mention my book and try to get them to buy it and stand in the back and do individual sales. So I just sell once for the whole audience. Right. So it's part of the speech and they get it as a handout. I say, this has 336 one minute ideas on how to motivate yourself and others, how to get yourself to do what needs to be done when you don't feel like it yet and still do it. Well, people ask me, how do you know each one's one minute? Because I first wrote them as radio scripts for a one minute radio show, and they had to be one minute. But there's 336 ideas in here. Darren, give me a number between one and 217. Oh, that's the.

I see it there, Darren.

17 minutes to use the best one. Now, no matter what number he had said, I was going to say that's the best one, but that's just a fun way to do a little playfulness. So I turn, I say, do you want item number 17 or do you want page number 17? So that they know this is really, really random. And they say item. And I say, okay, One minute. You are part of a chain. When my grandson was about to be born, I gave my daughter in law a little treasure chest with an acorn in it. And I told her the acorn represents the seed growing within her and it holds the potential of all future generations of our family. The cap on the acorn represents us, the parents and grandparents. The stem represents our connection to the ancestors in the past. And the seed represents a potential that lives within her and that lives within all the generations that will ever be touched by that seed. And I said, you carry the hopes and dreams of all these folks and thank you for honoring us with this child. She cried, I cried, my son and wife cried. Tears of happiness and gratitude to those in the past. Now, if you've got a book, you can do something like that, you know, you can say, give me a number, you know, and they give you a number and you say, okay, the value of having a creed. And then you read them or have them read it, you know, tell someone in the audience, please stand up and read that aloud. It'll only take one minute. And so they stand and they read and you say, okay, what did you get from that? That. So having a book like that not only gives you your business card because it's got all your contact info, your, your websites and social media links and all that, but it's, it's such a cool tool. And then when it comes to writing, I, I tend to be good at creative writing because I find links to things and I slip into story mode real easily. Well, heck, I've been doing this 46 years full time, so of course I'd be good at it. When it started out, I was still fairly decent at writing themes or articles in school, but never thought of them that way. Now then, I've, I've determined, you know, how I can crank out a good 500 words or 750 or 1500 in a short period of time and then go back and make it meaningful to that particular reader group. They say there's no such thing as good writing. There's only good rewriting. And that's pretty accurate.

And what advice would you give to someone who decides part of their journey going pro is to write a book, but I don't know how. Where do I start? What would you tell them?

First thing, you've got to find the idea, you know, a book is a carrier of something. It could be illustrations, it could be jokes, it could be tips and to do's. It could be quotes of other people, it could be a List of life experiences, you know, like a bucket list for people to choose from. It could be stories, it could be how to. I mean, there's an endless chain of things. It could be. So decide first off, why am I writing it and who am I writing it to? So if you're writing it to business people to supplement your career as a professional speaker and a consultant, then, you know, you need to determine who am I talking to and what problem do they have that I'm helping them solve? What's worth paying to make that problem to go? What problem is so important it's worth paying to make it go away? Paying 1995 for a book or paying 1995 for a Zoom call, or 19,000 for a keynote speech or whatever it happens to be. Right.

And I know going pro, one of. One of the big questions is how do I market myself? And I know we don't have time to go deep, but what's one idea or one tip for somebody wanting to go?

Probably go, yeah. The main thing is if you're not clear, you're not going to be confident. So that's why I said clarity is my goal for them, so that they will have confidence. And if they're not clear and confident, they're not going to have the courage to withstand resistance, challenges, problems, setbacks, disasters, you know, disappointments, the betrayals and things like that, all of which I've had, and I'm sure everybody has had. So clarity is number one, because it. If you're marketing something, there's got to be a something, right? You know, how do I. How do I market me? Well, are you for sale? Well, no, I don't mean that. I mean, how do I market my skills? What skills do you have? Oh, well, I don't know. Well, then it's not time to market. You know, go. Go watch somebody else market. So figure out what you've got that helps other people either be happier or better informed or make a problem go away or help something they want come into reality. And Then second, there's 3M's message. Market mileage, right? First, you got to be clear on what is your message. Second, you got to be clear on who's the market. Am I talking to children, to moms, to young adults, to business people, to entrepreneurs and startups, to. Am I talking to school teachers or insurance agents or bankers, you know, the clergy? Who am I talking to? So you got to have a message and a market, and the first one doesn't match, the second one sucks to be you, right? So make sure it matches your market. And really, really, really study your market, every aspect of it, even the parts you don't like, and know as much about it as you possibly can. Become an industry expert, so to speak, in that niche. And then third, like Darren says, stage time, stage time, you got to have mileage. You got to get out there and speak in a bar, shop, talking to five people on a frozen day with snow two feet deep outside. You got to talk to six people off of the bed of a pickup truck in a field. You got to give speeches to the local Kiwanis club when half of them show up drunk. You know, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta speak in a bar. You gotta speak at a school assembly when they don't want another speaker. You gotta speak when it's 100 degrees and you're in a church basement talking to 25 JCs. You, you got to get the mileage. And if the mileage doesn't include a few scars, then you're not going to be very strong at the other end of it. I did 400 free speeches for the Junior Chamber of Commerce in the state of Arkansas in 1974. And 75. No, 73 and 74, before I ever got paid even $10 for giving a speech. And I did them all free, all after work and on weekends. And I had some of the most ugly experiences you can imagine. Hecklers, people who didn't want me to be there. People who would chew out the audience and then say, we brought in a motivator. Maybe he can do something with you. I'm stuck with that. Literally, that's what he said. And it was a group of doctors in that case, they were sitting there like this, you know, just staring daggers at me.

You have a way of making speaking sound so glamorous, Mark.

Well, I've also been brought into the room with an entourage of 18 security guards with the entire 2,000 person audience chanting we love Jim in mainland China.

I saw that video clip. Yeah, I did. We missed two things I want to touch on real quickly because you mentioned 400 free speeches. Somebody with your expertise and experience, please remind your audience that there is a process of going from, from 3 to fee. Could you very briefly help us to understand that? Particularly because I think there is some confusion here because some you say go all in, but there are many who decide to go pro while maintaining their dirt. Their day job.

Yeah.

And eventually they jettison the day job and are all in. And there may be some confusion regarding that process and the whole fee to free how can you address that succinctly?

Well, here's how I did it. When I was active in the jcs, that was my evening activity. And during the day I was working as a clerk for the Urban Renewal Agency in Little Rock, Arkansas for 500 bucks a month. Well, the better I got at goal setting and leading meetings and organizing projects and motivating volunteers, the more that showed up on my day to day job work. And so I got promoted and I got raises and I got got, you know, better positions. But then I didn't want a career in government work or urban renewal. And one day the guy said, hey, how would you like to be a full time jc? What do you mean? I mean work for The United States, JC's national headquarters, be in charge of leadership training for all 356, 000 members. This was 1975. And I said, absolutely. And he said, okay, come up and interview tomorrow. So I drove from Little Rock to Tulsa, Oklahoma where they were headquartered. And I was there the next day and interviewed and they said, okay, we're not going to make a decision until later today because there are two or three candidates being interviewed today. And I said, okay. And so I went to the office that I would have if I got hired and I asked the guy that would be my boss what projects are being worked on in this office. And he told me and I said, could I do that one while I'm waiting? And he said, well, sure, free work. Yeah, knock yourself out. Because I'd already proven I knew what I was doing and, and I was, I was a worthy candidate to be doing the work. So I sat down and started working on this project. And a guy came in and he says, who are you? And I told him and he said, what are you doing here? And I said, I'm waiting to hear if I got the job. And he said, but you didn't get the job yet. Why are you doing the work? I said, somebody's got to. So if you'll excuse me. And he said, well, the word got out and then they came up to the floor I was on and said, you got the job. So for two years I flew around the country doing that, but I wanted to be a full time professional speaker. And so I got a booking to speak for an insurance agency in Tulsa, MassMutual. And they said at the end of that speech, you know, our guys really like you. Would you come back in a few months and do another? I said, sure. So a few months later I came back and the general agent, Joe Willard said, jim, changed my mind. I said, well, obviously you've changed your mind because now you're in a beautiful penthouse suite and you're, you know, your agents are doing really well. He said, no, no, that's not how it changed my mind. Time. I want you to go clean out your desk at the JCS and move in with us. I said, well Joe, I'm making fifteen hundred dollars a month. So I'm just saying, you know, I can't make a change like this unless you're willing to step up because 18,000 a year. And he said, jim, I think we could cover that. He said, come move in. I said, no, I've got another problem. I don't want an insurance career and I would be misleading you if I came over here with you think that's what I'm gonna do? He said, I know you want to be a professional speaker. He said, you got to be somewhere. I said, you mean I can go give speeches and be based here? He said, yeah, just give us X hours per month and X days per year for sure. And then the rest of the time go give speeches. So I grew where I was planted, branched out into professional speaking that love that little by Little picked up $10,000 in engagements that first year, 28,000 in engagements the second year, 36, 64, 89, 107, 174,000. And it just kept growing. Well, after year two with Joe Willard's agency, I had to go to him and say, Joe, I've got so many speeches, I can't justify staying. He said, Jim, what if we gave you a corner office space for a secretary, free use of our conference room, our lunchroom where we have a full time cook and, and all of that in return for your services and you stay here while you grow your business? I said, yes, sir. So with that continued for six years and I flew all over the world and ended up UP hired by 36 other MassMutual agencies and ultimately on to what I'm doing today.

Wow. So Jim, we gotta wrap it up here. So Mark's gonna, let's not. Mark's gonna put together the keepers while he does that. Look, if you want to gopro, it doesn't happen overnight. Jim just gave you a schooling. But if you wanna work with Jim, he's mentoring people. He's, he's got a program. Jim, how would they find out more about that?

That. Well, first off, I work with people that don't need a lot of help, but they want it. In other words, people like the Two of you who really have it together, but you're looking to go to the next level. Well, in that case, going pro would be for you. Now, they don't have to be at your level, but it needs to be people who are genuinely serious about taking their career to the higher levels that we talked about at the first part. And so they just go to Cathcart, my last name.com/going pro. One word going pro. And that'll take them to a one page description. And they click and send me a note and I'll, you know, I'll set up a call with them and, and find out if this is right for them. And so, you know, it's easy. Just. Cathcart.com goingpro cool.

Mark, I'm gonna, I'll call that up real quick and then we'll grab the keepers. But this is it. If you're watching video.

Going Pro Experience. Going Pro Experience Institute. All right, so there it is.

That out perfect.

Our YouTube viewers can get to see us very Clearly. But it's CathCart.com GoingPro radio voice there, Jim.

What do we got?

All right. There's so many keepers here. That amazing. First of all, understand this. The rules, standards and expectations will change when you decide to go pro. You burn your ships and decide that you will succeed quickly. Identify your level of aspiration. And remember, there are levels to going pro. There's competence, excellence, mastery, leading, authority, celebrity, star and superstar. Things to avoid a lack of integrity. And make sure to research your prospects deeply and be willing to respect your clients, respect your audiences and never, ever disappoint. Grow where you are planted. You may not grow. You won't go pro overnight, but grow where you are planted. And remember, your mindset will be one of what you deliver. Valuable, intentional. Be disciplined. Be accountable and be honorable. Clarify the future you and create the reputation that you want. Identify the single habit that will transform your level of excellence and your experience within five years. Also pinpoint your most valuable asset and the things that you you do well when you do. Compose your passion and purpose statement. And remember, if you change your circle, you can change your life. Ask this key question, who is glad that they know you? Learn to make better decisions and adopt a thought diet. When you're ready, write that book. It's a great business card, it's a great handout and it is a tool to promote your message. Most important, clarity, clarity, clarity. If you aren't clear, you won't be confident. And remember, get your message, your market and put in the miles and begin the journey of going pro.

Wow.

That's the best summary of going pro. The most succinctly stated and accurate, accurately recapped that I have ever heard. And I, I created the thing. Bravo, Mark. Thank you very much. And thank you, Darren.

You're welcome. If you're listening to this again, check out CathCart.com forward/GoenPro. And thanks Jim for being with us. Always great to chat with you. We'll have you back anytime you want to be with us. We, we love you, we're fans of yours. And thanks for being the role model and a legend all at the same time for people like us. So thank you. Take care. And for those of you listening, we'll see you or hear you next week.

Make sure you subscribe to our show.

Remember to subscribe because if you miss a week, you miss a lot.

If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out Stagetime University where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about, go to stagetimeuniversity.com join us next week. If you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.