Ep. 17 The Story Behind Marvelless Mark's Rockstar Experience

Mark Brown, I love, love, love your phrase. Give it to us.

Oh, yeah, man. Hey, don't give a speech, give an experience. You don't want to give the audience words. You want them walking away saying, man, I am sure glad I was there.

And there's nobody better than our favorite industry rock star, Mr. Experience. Mark Camp. Mark Camp, how are you?

Hey, is that my cue?

We should say here's Marvelous Mark, you.

See what I just did there? I asked you a question. And forced you to engage in the conversation. Nice.

And to use your name, Darren. Has Mark heard our cheesy opening yet?

Not yet, but he's about to. Here we go.

Here we go.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas. Let's dive right in.

All right. Mark Brown, I'm so excited. This guy has some unique rock star talents, and he teaches businesses how to use rockstar principles to get rockstar results. Mark Camp, welcome.

And he's got the rock star clothes, too. Man, your wardrobe literally rocks. What's going on, Mark?

Hey, I'm just ready to rock out on the engagement program of a lifetime. Omg. Two world champion speakers. And I should have shaved my head for this presentation.

Well, the cool thing is, man, we get to call you friend. We get to call you brother. And I'm just flat excited to have the king, the rock star of audience engagement online today to teach our listeners the importance of and the skills and the power of really engaging your audience. And nobody, Darren, nobody I know does it any better than Marvelous Mark.

Amen. So, Mark Camp, we're gonna show them your demo video because you just gotta see this or hear this. So if you're listening to the audio podcast, listen carefully and we'll explain what's going on visually in the background. If you're watching this on YouTube. Enjoy. So here we go. This is a little taste of Mark Camp in action.

Rockstar and business success both start with dreams. So what is different about rockstars? They don't just want to get by and pay the bills. They want to dominate the world. Years ago, reasonable may have gotten you by, but today, reasonable is just not going to cut it. As entrepreneurs, business owners we want more than just satisfied customers. We want raving fans who will enthusiastically go out and tell everybody how awesome our services are, our experiences are. But if we are not excited, how do we expect to get everybody else else excited? What does it mean to be a rock star? When you hit the stage, you are connecting with your fans and giving them 110%. The world is changing every day. The way we do business is changing every day. So why wouldn't our dreams change? KISS knew they want to create a rock soldier spectacle. They knew they weren't just creating a band, they were creating a brand. They weren't just music giants, they were business giants. What are you willing to do that others are not? The extra mile. I mean, remember, most people don't even go the first mile. That is so true. That guy is awesome.

Well, the rule number one, you got to believe in yourself. Question for those of you who couldn't see the visuals, oh my gosh. The way Mark is in the audience, he's got everybody in the room with drumsticks, drumming. He's got people just out of their minds with his energy. And I just love watching you, man. It never, never gets old. But the one question is, who's got more clothes, you or your wife?

Well, you know, that's a gimme. I have more clothes, I have more rooms in the house. I have more closet space in the house. Not to be a control freak. When we moved into our new location, that was all negotiated out in a legal contract so that there's no discrepancies and we are in agreement and we're living happily ever after.

Nice. You bet. So, Mark, we want to dive into your story. So people who listen to this are entrepreneurs who gives presentations, corporate presenters, and even pastors. We want to tap into your experience. I mean, you are like the ultimate extrovert on stage. Is that just who you are? Have you always been that way? Where'd this come from?

Well, like many professional speakers and entertainers, I started out as a very shy and quiet individual until I hit the stage. A lot of people find that hard to believe. For many of us in this profession, the fact that, oh, wow, I bet you like this all the time. And people say, man, do you ever shut Marvelous Mark off. And, you know, it took a lot of years before I have the level of confidence that I do right now. But when you own the stage, as you both teach and show so well, it's just a whole different Persona. And, you know, one of the things, Darren, that I always remember when I Say a little prayer before I go out to do an event or a speech. And that is, you know, to have God remind me that it's not about me, it's about the audience. And how can I best serve my audience? Or a lot of times in my case, how can I best engage my audience?

When did you start speaking? How did you come over into to the speaking world?

Well, I guess that kind of depends on what you determine as speaking. Like, probably around age 2, I think I had my first words out. So technically that could be. But I joined NSA in 2003, the National Speakers association, and that's when I started going down that path. But as an entertainer, a lot of times you're asked to emcee. So I've got hours and hours of stage time, stage time, stage time. Due to the fact of, you know, being a traveling and touring entertainer.

I see what you did there. Stage time, stage time, stage time. So real quick, your entertainment background, Mark, where did that begin? As a singer or performer, what were you doing?

I had a vision back in ninth grade. Me and a couple friends that went to church. Our church was kind of like the Footloose church. There was no dancing. And we knew that if we didn't do something for our church to engage the youth of our congregation, that our youth program was going to die. And I had forgotten about this. But one of my old Sunday school classmates reminded me when she visited Las Vegas a few years ago, she said, do you remember when we decided we wanted to have a dance for the youth? And you went out to all the elders of the congregation and you were politicking and you were soliciting and you were like, asking for their vote and their approval to allow the. The youth to have a dance. And then you and Mark Williams and Tim Sievers, you put your stereos together and you made the first DJ system. And we passed the hat and we gave you the tip money. And that was the beginning of my DJ business. Like, wow, you can make money playing records. Pretty cool.

You are Kevin Bacon. Nice. Mark, in terms of engagement in Rockstar, where did the idea of that as a keynote, a paid keynote? Because I love the concept. In fact, right here in my office, you can't see this, but right here in my office, I have a couple quotes that actually come from your keynote. I have the Lady Gaga quote is always in my head, and the Jay Z quote, but that comes right from you in your keynote. So where did the idea come from of that as your theme?

I think it just kind of Evolved. I mean, I had always been inspired, I guess, in the early years by mtv. I was just mesmerized when MTV first came out. And I realized that I didn't have the patience or the desire to play a musical instrument to be in a band, which was my dream. But I decided to take a different route, and I started my DJ business, and I wanted to make my DJ business as much like a show band as possible. Back in the early 80s was the birth of the show bands, when they were doing props and costume changes and engaging the audience in the bars, and that inspired me. So this one group would come through our town, like, every month because they play the circuit. So I would buy props and a white tuxedo, top hat and cane, and I would show up at their event or their show every month, and I would just kind of jump on stage with them, and they allowed me to do that. And that was really kind of the beginning, because I would see how the audience would respond. And they wouldn't just have one drink and leave. They would actually stay the whole night, which means more money for the bar and better press for the entertainment group, because they're gonna keep hiring you back. The people that draws the biggest crowd.

Awesome. So you've written a book, Opportunity Rocks. Tell us about the book. Cause that goes with your keynote.

Well, actually, I kind of did things a little bit differently than most speakers. I produced the keynote first, and then that led to the writing of the book, where so many people will write a book first and then kind of develop their keynote off the book. But I did a program. You talked about using the drumsticks as an emcee before I even had an idea that I would end up in the speaking world. I would hand out drumsticks to the audience, and we would just drum, make noise, have fun, create energy, not realizing what was down the road. And it was such an engaging and powerful way when you have these drumsticks in the hands of everyone. And IBM hired me for 4,000 people in the Atlanta dome, whatever name it was back then, and we did 4,000 drumsticks. And their program was called Opportunity Rocks. So I thought, hey, you know, Rockstar, Opportunity Rocks. We did the program. It was amazing. So immediately I started checking out the URL and the trademark to see if it was available. And I snagged it. So that's where the title came from. And then from that, we just started putting together bits and pieces of the book, interviewing different entertainers, rock stars, business people. And of course, things evolve, change you tweak but it came into what the book is now and what the keynote is.

That's a great story. And, of course, your drumsticks now are pretty much your trademark. But what was it? What was the catalyst? What was the trigger that led you to believe, if I can get 8,000 drumsticks in that dome and have everyone drumming, it could be transformational. Why the drumsticks from a guy who was normally shy when he was younger?

Well, in my earlier years, when I moved to Florida in 1990, one of my first gigs was karaoke. And in Missouri, growing up in a small farming community in the 80s, we didn't know what karaoke was. Was. We'd never heard of karaoke. And the person that I went to work for said, hey, I'm gonna throw you in this karaoke show. I want you to go check out a couple other people and, hey, there's Oliver.

Hey, Ollie.

For those of you don't know, Oliver was featured. That's our dog. That Oliver was featured in one of Darren's podcasts. Anyway, where was I? Train of thought.

You were doing karaoke.

Hey, guys.

So I saw this karaoke host that had took beer cans and filled them up with popcorn, taped the tops over them and gave them out in the audience and while other people were singing, because really, if you're not there watching a friend or if you're not singing yourself, karaoke is kind of boring. So to keep the audience engaged, she had everyone with these shakers that she made. So after I'd done this program with playing around with drumsticks, I thought, wow, I could do this with drumsticks. So when IBM called and said, hey, what can you do for a group of 4,000 to get them pumped up and, you know, totally, you know, take it over the top, I thought, hey, how about 4,000 pairs of drumsticks with your brand on it as a souvenir and keep it and take it home, and then you can keep the message or the energy flowing throughout the whole year. So that was kind of the beginning of the drumsticks.

The idea was to get them up and excited. You said over the top, Mark. Which for some people, to get the audience involved, I don't want to do. I want to give my program. I want to give a speech. I'm done. But you get people really engaged and excited. You're the king. You are the rock star of audience engagement. Was there a point in time where you said, ah, for me to engage my audience as an audience is a key for me to be Successful.

Well, I'm sure both of you, as speaker coaches, teach, you know, your people that you respond to the feedback. And feedback doesn't have to be verbal. It can be how the audience responds or how the audience is engaged. And when you get that feedback to you, then that makes you're telling yourself, all right, we need to do this again. How can we make it better? How can we expand on it? Because originally it was just with the drumsticks, and it wasn't until years later that we started adding a program and content around the drumsticks to make it an actual presentation that we can present and sell to corporations.

I admire that so much, Mark, because you made a very, very key point here. And this, our friends, is a keeper. Mark said, you listen to what the audience tells you. And their response told him, I'm onto something here. How can I use this? And then he expanded it and built a program around one key factor, the reaction of the audience. So not only did Mark engage his audience, but he used the result of the engagement to transform what he provided for the audience, and he really took it one step further. And that's really important to catch.

Well, another thing that you guys talk about as well is most people remember the opening and the closing of your speeches. So you want to make a big impact at the beginning, and then you also want to leave them with something to remember or whatever memory they're going to walk away with. And when you have, whether it's These work for 13 people, they work for 4,000 people. When you walk away feeling pumped up and energized and you actually have something physically to hold in your hand, you're going to get great speaker reviews, you're going to get great feedback from the meeting planner and the attendees. And there again, you just figure out, how can you keep making this better? How can you tweak this? How can you make this more over the top?

And Mark, I want to back up. And if you want to.

Love it.

And you never know when the neighbors are going to pull out the leaf blower when you're in the middle of a podcast. I know, right?

So much for the soul proof wall.

Feel free to hit mute in between, but I want to go back because one of the things truly impresses me about you is your work ethic. When you were creating your keynote speec, give us a little idea of that process. I know you had some coaches and some guidance. In fact, you were coached live at lady and the Champs, formerly Stage time live. But your eagerness to get It. Right. And your work ethic. So number one on that, and then number two, if you're willing to talk about your investment in your slides. Like, that blew me away. So first, Mark, just tell us about the process of creating your unforgettable rock star keynote.

Well, I mean, you're either all in, you're in it to win it, or you're not. I mean, if you're going to invest in a coach, why would you not listen to the coach? And I've been a firm believer my whole life. In fact, my wife questions me sometimes because she's like, man, you pay everybody to do everything for you. And I'm like, no, I pay people to do things for me that I don't know how to do if I'm not an expert in a situation. And I was an entertainer, I was an emcee, so I knew nothing about the speaking business. So it's common sense to find the best people that know the speaking business and how they can teach you. So, you know, Darren, you had said, you know, you don't have to be an expert in the subject right off the bat. You interview people who are experts in the subject and then you look like the expert. So that's what I started doing. I started interviewing people that were touring, finding out their work ethics, finding out what, what they did. And for me personally, you know, I haven't punched a time clock since 1984. I've been a full time performer, entertainer and speaker since 1984. And it wasn't until I made that jump of where I was doing two or three jobs that I didn't really want to do and then just kind of doing part time what I really wanted to do. It wasn't until I took that leap of faith that things really exploded for me and my career. So you have to be all. When you give 100% of your focus to what you want to do the most, that's when growth happens and that's when your business really starts to expand. So it was that key point back in 1984 that I went full time, that things just started going on. For the keynote, of course, I told you how I got the name, and we just expanded from there on what it would be like. And then I started consulting with other music experts, finding out what principals work for rock stars. I read all the rock star books, from Kiss to Bon Jovi to Motley Crue to the Grateful Dead memoirs, to find out if there were patterns. And there were. So I started expanding on those patterns and broke those Principles down to the four chords of rock star success on the keynote. And in the book, there's actually six chords that you play because a lot of people don't realize that 90% of the songs that you hear on the radio are based on the exact same four chords.

1, 4, 5, 6. Yep.

So if the rock stars are playing these four chords and getting gold records and number one hits, doesn't it make sense for you to play the four chords every day for your business? So that's kind of how the whole gave birth to the keynote.

How much time would you say you got coached and you practiced? So you got coaching, you applied it, you practiced and rehearsed more than just about anybody I know. Which is why, part of the reason why you're on this podcast, because I seen you, you're amazing on stage. For those of you watching this who don't know, Mark Camp, he had his own show on the Vegas Strip performance he's got. But to take somebody just like we interviewed Mark Eaton a couple weeks ago, who was world class, and then switch them over to another talent and have that same eagerness to learn and study and grow. How many hours would you say you put into the keynote? You to take it from good to great?

Oh, wow. I have. I have no idea. Because you're constantly putting in hours. You never, you never stop. I mean, that's the key. I mean, the Rolling stones are approaching 80 and they're still touring, they're still riding and they're still performing. So if you're serious about what you do and you love what you do, the Stones don't need the money. They just love what they do. They were born to play. They were born to, to entertain. They were born to perform. And if you're really passionate about what you do and you feel you have a message out there that people need to hear, or you just don't love getting the feedback and the energy back from your audience, you just keep trying to make it better. Because if you don't, one of the things I say in the keynote is you can change the times or you can change with the times. If you change with the times, you're going to be unemployed or out of the game. So you have to constantly be reinventing, you have to constantly be making it better. You have to be constantly tweaking and finding new ways. And Glenn Frey of the Eagles said that they did not go out on tour until they rehearsed their set list 100 times in a row perfectly. This is during rehearsal. If they didn't hit it 100 times in a row perfectly. They did not go out on tour yet. So do you have that kind of commitment to your craft? Do you have that kind of commitment to your speech, to your presentation? Because that. That's what it takes to go from good to great. And you never stop rehearsing. You are constantly rehearsing. You're constantly in tune to feedback and finding out new ways.

And are you willing to share what you invested in slides? Because this blew me away as well.

I'm selling Rockstar. So as Mark made a comment about my wardrobe and my dress, that's become my brand. So I want to present a rock star Persona. I want to look like a rock star when I walk into the room. I want heads to turn. People say, who is that guy? Even one of our NSA greats, David Averin, said in a conference call a few weeks ago. He said, I knew who Marvelous Mark was for years. I'd never met him, but I always saw him around influence and NSA because of his jackets and his coats. And I would ask people, who is that? And someone always knew who it was, even though I never met him. So that becomes. Becomes your brand, and you have to constantly be pushing that. So with the rock star mentality, I felt not only did my stage presence need to project engagement and energy like a rock star, but my PowerPoint presentation as well. So I invested a little bit over $15,000.

Those of you listening to the podcast, you do just did the little Austin Powers.

Austin Powers.

Austin powers.

Pinky.

Pinky, Dr. Evil Pinky.

Now that's amazing. So just. Yeah, Ollie agrees. That's like for all of us who want to be unforgettable, just. I want to emphasize this, and I'll turn it to you, Mark Brown, that if your slides have to reflect your brand, have to reflect who you are, have to reflect your message, and those. The walk that you're talking and the talk that you're walking. So I just love that. Mark, you have no idea how much that has impressed me when I found that out. And that's just a lesson to all of us. What are you doing? Are you trying to do the slides yourself or have you had somebody professionally design them? If you want to be unforgettable, Mark.

Brown, one word really hit me. He said, I invested $15,000 in my slides. We're hearing 15 grand for PowerPoint. Are you kidding me? But he's. He didn't say, I spent it. He said, I invested. Which means he put the money in to get a return on his investment. And from look at things, Mark, you're getting a good return on the investment. So, one, the investment was one, and number two was your willingness to be coachable. You're on your own for over 30 years. You're an NSA member over 25 years, over 15 years. But you still saw the value of getting coach. And here you are, a performer at lady in the champs, coming on stage, willing in public to be coached by world champions because you wanted to be better. Because I remember very clearly, you sent us a script and everything. Opportunity Rock. You wanted to get your opening down pat. You wanted to have an impact, and you were willing to do what was necessary. Invest money in good slides, invest money in professional coaching. And you said, I would put the money in to get the return I need. And that is the lesson for all of us. You can't be a rock star, and you can't be unforgettable on the cheap.

Keeper.

You can't be a rock star. You can't be unforgettable on the cheap. I'm done.

Yeah. Ed Tate says you can't cheap your way to the top. And Mark Camp, you are an example of that. Mark Brown, say investment one more time.

Investment.

We've got to look at that. Give a guy a sound machine. I'm no DJ Mark Camp, but anyway, got my sound effects here. All right, so.

Hey, Darren, let me interrupt you for just a second since we're on this subject. And here's a little behind the scenes that the two of you probably don't even know. First, I don't call it a slide presentation. When I present it to my client and I'm talking about it, I call it my backup band of a multimedia presentation. And. And a lot of times I went, wow. Yeah. I Travel with a $15,000 backup ban in the form of a multimedia presentation, because it's not just slide. There's movie parts, there's videos, there's cartoons, there's captions, there's movement. And then here's the thing that I was kind of embarrassed about, but now it's kind of turned. When I first started hitting the stage, the feedback that I would get from audience members and different coaches and different people in the industry, it's like, wow, Mark, you have the best slides I have ever seen. Best slide presentation ever. I'm like, yes. They never commented about how great my message was or how great my speech was. So that told me feedback. I have to now work better on my stage presence. And with the help of Darren and Mike Rayburn and Patricia Fripp and many of the other coaches that we work with and hang out with. You know, it's. Now I'm getting feedback on myself and the slides as a great presentation, but that really was an eye opener in the beginning. Like, what about me?

What about me? Well, you know what?

We laughed, Darren. But I tell you what, it takes a degree of humility, an honest self assessment to tell yourself, I've got to rise to the level of my slack. I like that. I've got to rise to the level of my slides.

So it means unless your slides suck.

Well, if you're investing 10, $15,000 in a multimedia product that implies quality that people love, and you're saying I've got to at least match that. Eventually he becomes so good, they do in fact become his backup. They become supportive because his level of excellence has risen so high that the amazing PowerPoint and the Amaz slide presentation, the amazing multimedia, is a backup to him. And that's how good Mark has gotten by. A commitment and dedication to being unforgettable. I love that. And also, Mark, what I'm really, really happy about and jazzed about is that you see that audience engagement is a key to who you are as part of your Persona. Not part of Mark the brand, but part of Mark the person, which is really, really cool. Because there are people out there who are hearing this who are wondering, how can I best engage my audience? I don't want to get drumsticks and do what Mark does, but maybe they have a different tool or a different skill set or a different way to engage the audience, but they don't really see it yet. And how did you know, for me, I have to engage to be effective?

Well, part of it, A lot of it was ego driven because, you know, a lot of us are on stage for many different reasons. As a. As a performer, it's. That's the way we. That's our dopamine. That's, you know, instead of likes on Facebook that, you know, rock so many other people's brain waves. It's. It's the crowd. It's the noise of the crowd. It's the feedback, it's the yelling and screaming and the women throwing roses on the stage and women throwing. Well, you know, and so.

Nice. Nice. Yeah, they usually don't do that at corporate, but hey, if that's engaging, go ahead.

Oh, I have stories on corporate in the 90s before.

Before the days of procurement and HR.

HR, right.

So, Mark, if you're. Go ahead, finish Sorry.

No, I was just. I was just going to say that you both, I think, will agree that it's a different speaking world nowadays and the old, you know, founding rock stars that would stand up there and just tell an amazing story and get people to lean in and wonder what's next. That doesn't cut it nowadays anymore because we have a different kind of person in our audience. We have people that are looking, you know, for that immediate gratification, that dopamine fix people that if you don't get them right off the bat and keep them, they're going straight to their phones or they're tuning out, or they've got something else on their mind. So. So anybody from a CEO to a professional speaker, to someone that's just giving a commencement address, you have to have some sort of engagement, and it has to be every few minutes to keep your audience in tune. That is why corporations are freaking out or associations especially, that their attendance is going down. Trade shows are wondering how to get more people to come to trade shows, because if they're just coming for education, they can get that online now. People want an experience. People want an engagement at a live event or a reason to come to a live event.

Wow. What you're saying, too, is audiences are changed and they're more savvy than they used to be, so it's harder to keep them engaged. How many times, Mark, in your keynote, do you reach out to the audience to give them some kind of engagement experience?

I haven't really timed it, but if I had to guess, I would say about every five to six minutes. And not just with drumsticks, but either with a question, with having the audience say something back to me, whether we're branding ourselves as a rock star, I have a whole bag of engagement tricks, I guess you would call them, to keep the people engaged. They don't realize it. They're just part of it. It's part of the show or part of the experience. But. But it's just like a comedian. I think Tim Guard said you have to have a laugh every three minutes. Or somebody said that. I don't know. It was Tim or now.

I'm curious, Mark, you also, at times of will bring people on a huge stage. You get them on the stage wearing wigs, playing instruments, jumping, dancing. How in the world do you determine who gets there and when to use those techniques?

Great question.

A lot of that just comes with experience. I mean, as a professional entertainer and an emcee. Well, even as a speaker, you know, we have about 30 seconds, sometimes less to win over the audience or to get them to love us or wonder, what's this guy about? I think I'll stick around a little bit longer. So you have to kind of judge your audience. So I have a plan A and a plan B. Be always. I have like the silly wig air guitar bit that I'll use during my keynote presentation. And then I have a more distinguished, subtle form of engagement that I'll use. And if I feel the crowd is going to look at me like, I can't take this guy seriously, he's a goofball, then I'll go with plan B. And if I feel like, wow, they're fun, the client really wants them, this, then I'll go with plan A and bring people up on stage and dress them up and get them to do things. Because it ties in with the message. And the message is what I call the kiss question. What are you willing to do that others are not? So if you're willing to get up in front of your peers, put on a wig, play an air guitar con, or play an air guitar in front of your peers, those are the people that are going to be the rock stars. Those are the people that are going to go to the pinnacle and be at the top, top of the sales triangle and get the awards at the end of the year.

Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Real quick, Mark, you've gone back to one of the first lessons I learned back in Toastmasters in 1992 about knowing your audience. But for you, it's not just knowing it's high energy or low energy. It's also knowing who they are, where they are, and what you will do to engage them to get them to your destination. It's not just their upbeat and they're low, they're low key. So I'll do this or I'll do this. That everything is geared towards your objective, to serve your audience, to let them know that they can be rock stars. That's very impressive and I hope everybody gets that from your last answer. Truly, really powerful, Mark. Thanks a lot.

Thanks. I never thought of it like that. Well, you should do. You should do writing for me.

Can you afford me though? That's the question.

Are you more expensive than slides?

Well, we're friends too, Mark. We're friends too, so it's cool. I can give it a friend discount. How's that sound? Yeah, we both named Mark, so that's a bonus for you as well. I do have one more question before I let Darren take over here. There Was one tip you would give to the eager listener. Maybe it's a pastor who says, I've been doing sermons all my life and I need to switch it up. What one thing could I do to increase my engagement level with the audience? It's a trick question because I want to try and make it generic across all industries, but still be valid in terms of the principle of audience engagement. One tip.

Well, that's pretty easy. And that is be fearless. Don't be afraid to try it. Take, take a risk. One of my coaches from keynote camp was Eric Chester is a legend in the speaking industry. And he. He actually came and saw me a couple times and he's like, man, you do things on stage, you ask things of your audience that I would be afraid to do. I would never do that. I could never pull it off. And I'd say, yes, you can, but you're never gonna know if you don't try. Have I failed a couple times? I wouldn't necessarily say failed. Things didn't always turn out at the level that I thought that they would, but there again, I get feedback on how I could do it differently the next time. If you don't try some engagement ideas, then you're never going to know. But the next person is because there's so many go getters out there and so many people competing for our business that that's a rock star mentality. Rock star mentality. My definition of a rock star is standing out in your industry, remaining or becoming relevant and being heard above the noise.

That's awesome. And what you did not say, but what my Jamaican brain is hearing is whatever occurs to you is worth a try. It need not be huge. It could be simple. It just has to be different and new and the idea comes to you. Try it. It may not work the way you want it to work, but at least it gives you an idea. It's something different. If it came to you, it came to you for a reason. It applies to lawyers, to pastors, to leaders, to speakers, and to rock stars.

A perfect example is in the early days of the drumsticks. I started getting bills from the client for tablecloths because people were feeding on the table so hard, it was cutting the tablecloth. They would actually cut a whole circle around a round table.

That's amazing.

And hold it up. And I'm like, what is this? So after, after my first $400 tablecloth bill, I put it in my writer that I am not responsible for tablecloths, but I also change my bit. So when I'm instructing them about the drumsticks. I'm like, you know what? We can just be wild out there with no direction and we can just beat on the table just to make noise. But are we making the noise that our customers and our fans want to hear? Or we can be a professional and hold the drumsticks like a professional drummer and rap. Tap, tap, tap, tap on top of it.

You could say, are you making noise or are you making music?

Right. Adaptation as well. Sorry, Adaptability. What happened there was he was willing to adapt to what was not working perfectly and change it, switch it up and still have impact on his audience. That's pretty amazing. Well done, Mark.

Thank you, Mark Camp, you are remarkable and definitely unforgettable. We do a quick thing here, Mark, where we recap some of the keepers. So in a moment, Mark's going to recap the keepers from this episode, and we would love to hear one more bit of advice from you after that as to what you would tell somebody who needs to make their presentation more of an experience. What advice would you have for. But first, Mark Brown, what are the keepers from this episode?

I have three that jumped out at me immediately. One was never stop rehearsing. Never stop rehearsing. No matter how good you are, never stop rehearsing. Two, be willing to invest in yourself, your craft and your success. Number three, be fearless. No matter what it is, be fearless. And number four, not only must you be fearless and try it, be also willing to make whatever adjustments you have to make to make sure your client, your audience or your clientele gets the result that they need to get.

Wow. Thank you, Mark Brown. So, Mark Camp, last bit of advice you would have for people who want to make their speech an experience rather than just the presentation.

You have to, I guess, be comfortable with what you're doing first. Because like Eric Chester said, he said I would never be able to do that. The things you ask of your audience, I would be afraid to do. You know, you've got. I won't say what he said I've got. But anyway, he'll never go there, and that's fine. He's happy with his career and the way things are going. But for me personally and for the people out there that want to make a difference, that want to stand out in the crowd, you have to do things differently. You have to take chances. You have to do things differently. And if you try something and it doesn't work the way you want it to do, that doesn't mean it's a Bad idea. It just means you need to redefine it, tweak it a little bit, try it in a different way. You know, you think about when you were dating and did you give up the first time you asked somebody out? Hopefully not. You asked again but maybe in a different way or you tried to woo them in a different way with flowers or jewelries or Goldslauger or something like that. That would be my tip to give is just like can't be afraid and, and don't give up the first time. Never surrender, never give up.

And Mark Camp, if somebody knows a great audience where you could teach them how to be rock stars in their industry, where would they go to learn more about you?

Well, Darren, that's so kind of you to ask. You can go to mmspeaks.com capital M, capital M, speaks.com and if you want to go to the Marvelous Mark blog. I actually have a blog called engage to uncage your business. It has a top 10 list of engagement tips and tricks that you can use for yourself and for your audience. One thing we didn't talk about when you're speaking to businesses and importance of engagement is that just like if your audience isn't engaged as a presenter, you're probably going to be out of business for the corporations. If your employees aren't engaged, your customers are probably not going to be engaged either.

Yeah, you can also sign up for Marvelous Mark's newsletter there, but I definitely want you to go there to just watch his speaker demo if nothing else because what a great example of a demo that stands out. But you can see how Mark has worked on this really hard. But the result that he got from that demo video really shows you how he gives an example experience. So definitely go check that out and watch that demo video because it's amazing. Mark Camp, thanks for joining us on unforgettable presentations.

Yes sir, it was a rocking good time.

Wish you well in your career. I really do appreciate your time. I know you're busy and tell Ollie we said thanks saying hello and for just saying hello.

Yeah, I need to go do some yard work now.

Mark Camp, you really, really are a great example of making it an experience rather than a speech. Mark Brown, closing thoughts.

Hey Mark, thanks for the last thought. Your last thought was be unique. Not don't be one but be the only one. And certainly there's no one in the world like marvelous Mark, Mr. Engagement. Mark Camp, thanks again man. You show us don't just give a speech, give an experience. Catch you all next time.

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If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out stagetime University, where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about, go to stagetimeuniversity.com join us next week if you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out stagetime University, where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about, go to stagetime University. Join us next week. If you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.