Ep. 180 The Unforgettable Inspiration of John OLeary

Hey there, Mark Brown. It's my turn to levitate. I am so freaking pumped and excited. We're gonna sit down with a guy, John o'. Leary. If you haven't heard his story, you gotta go out to YouTube, search his name, check out the Gold cast video. It's seven minutes, and I just watched it again twice. Twice. And got choked up both times. But I shared the stage with him in Florida, and when he got off stage, I was just like, you've got to get. Join us. Please be on the podcast. His story is unforgettable, and how he tells it is unforgettable. So, Mark, I just want to dive in to get more time with John.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown. Mark Brown.

Your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time.

Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. Ahas. Let's dive right in.

All right, Mark, when I say I'm excited like John o'. Leary. John, thank you for joining us. All right, hero worship here. I'm just gonna say it. I'm just gonna say it. And John, here's why. Because not only did you live that story that is unbelievable, but you learned how to tell it in an unforgettable way. Because some people have magnificent, outstanding stories, and they. Let's just say they ride the celebrity or something, and then they. They tell it. Okay, Right. The way you say it and the principles that you teach.

Just get us started.

How did you even come to becoming a speaker? You live the story. That's one thing. But how did your speaking start?

Well, let me just start by thanking you both for the work you're doing and the influence you have, and now for inviting me into this. This community. I'm honored by it, and I'm looking forward to our time together. And no one's more surprised by the fact that I'm on your show and doing the work that I do than I am. You're on the show right now with a guy who's an introvert by nature, who's shy, who struggles with self worth from time to time, who struggled in school, who, as a business major, was forced to take a class called public speaking for the business Major second semester, senior year, because I was terrified of it. So you're not on the phone with a guy who was preordained to be on stages. And I think there's something about being a redeemed introvert. Like extroverts, they want to tell the story, you know, they want to take a microphone into a room where you don't even need one. I think sometimes there's wisdom and sitting back and learning and growing and asking questions and wondering if you actually are worthy and then trying to. Trying to prove yourself time after time after time. So when you and I first met, Darren, it was probably the 23rd hundredth presentation that I've given in my life. That's a fair amount of time on stage.

Wow.

But that one is serious. As I did the one before it or the one after it or the 33 or so since I've, I've met you last. So I think that's where we ought to begin with just the sense of humility that any great speaker ought to take onto that stage with her or him.

Absolutely. Do you remember back to your first request for being a speaker or how did that happen?

Yeah, you know, so for the folks who don't know the story of John o', Leary, you're, you're right. Now please, please listen to the voice of a guy got burned when he was nine and we can spend more time later on talking about it. But nine year old burn victim, five and a half months in hospital, 100 burned, absolutely should have died, does survive. And one of the commitments I made in hospital was to never look back. I didn't want to become a speaker. I wanted to become ordinary. I didn't want bright lights, man. I wanted dim acceptance. I just wanted to be kind of gray matter like normal people. So I spent 20 years hiding from the scars and trying to be something that I really wasn't. Just trying to be like everybody else. And then back to your question. Do you remember the first? Yeah, dude, I remember the first because it changed my life. I'm working construction, which is a strange career path for a guy with no fingers to work, but it's the one I chose. So I'm working construction, get a phone call. I flipped the phone open so that that's going to date this conversation. And I remember a little girl on the other side began the conversation with the question Mr. O'. Leary. She said, Mr. O'.

Leary.

So I said, oh, let me get you my dad's number, you know, and she goes, no, no, Mr. O', Leary, before you hang up, your dad just gave me your number. I have a question for you would you speak at my school? And I said, about what? And she said, I've read that you were burned when you were a little boy. You should have died and you lived. I want to hear that story. And guys, I never told the men I was working with at that time. I'd never told college roommates. I tried to kept this thing as buried as I could. But on that day, outside of this construction site next to my pickup truck, I uttered the word yes and regretted it immediately. You know, I could have used Mark's help quite a bit in the early days. Practice that talk for 48. I'm not exaggerating. 40 hours. It was a 10 minute talk to three girl scouts. So that's the first presentation. We're not talking overly bright lights, but I was nervous, got sick ahead of time.

That's intimidating, by the way. Three girl Scouts, that's. I wouldn't take that now. I would say no, it is intimidating.

It's still intimidating, in fact, for those of us who are speakers, the more you do it, the more you realize the smaller the group, the more intimate the group, the more difficult the group. So you're right, three is a big number actually as a presenter. But I'm in front of these three girls, I feel like I failed. I'm reading the note cards. None of it's memorized, none of it's honest, you know, none of it's real. Like you and I are talking right now. But as I'm packing up the note cards afterwards, a father came up and said, john, that was terrific. Would you speak at my Rotary Club? Wow. Yes. So I went, did a slightly better. And then one of those members was also a member in Kiwanis. So in the, the first year, guys, I spoke three times. Second year, eight. None of it was for income. None of it was for celebrity status or selling books. I was just saying yes. And then the third year, I spoke 36 times. And during that year I realized that there was a calling here and there was an opportunity to positively influence lives through your story. I think, Mark, you have a quote around that you, if you have a story, you can influence lives through that story. So I, I try to get better and better. I actually hired a speaking coach. I practiced an awful lot of the mirror. I eventually hired someone to help book speeches for o'. Leary. She requested and required more money as a salary than I'd made the previous three years combined. And I realized right away, like, well, that's not going to work. So we shook hands and said goodbye. But then I got a let three days later in the mail. Show you the power of follow up. Young speakers out there sent me a letter in the mail and all it said it was a quote from Abraham Lincoln. Let us determine that the thing can and should be done and together we will find a way.

Wow.

So I said, what the heck, man? So let's determine that. So we did determine that. We figured out a way and we've been speaking now 16 years since couple thousand audiences, couple million people live by saying yes authentically to the one in front of us.

Wow.

Say yes. That's a keeper right there.

And John, you, you had this story. You work with a coach. The story is so powerful. But what were some of the, let's just say, lessons you learned along the way about telling your story? Because a lot of people have stories, but they're not sure what to leave out, what to add in. How did you figure that out?

Man, I'm still figuring that out. I go through old slide decks from a couple years ago and I can't believe I had seven bullet points. Can't remember two things, let alone seven. So I'm still figuring out what needs to be there, what doesn't. So on this side of it, what I'll say is always start with the end in mind. What do you need the audience to receive? And if it is how good you are, you're focused on the wrong thing. If it's how terrific that one story is, when you climb to the very tippity top and the view you had, I think it's the wrong thing you're focused on. It ought to really be about what's their struggle, what's the tension, what are they walking into that room with? What does success look like for them and how can you help them get that? And then if you start with that, then you back end into it by saying, so it's that point and it's this one, it's not that one. And it's more interactive or it's less interactive. So we always begin with what they need, not what we do from a delivery standpoint. One of the things I remember she had me do, her name was Linda. One of the things Linda had me do, it was terrible. Is to read in front of her children's books. And this is before I had my own kids. So she would bring in books that she had for her grandchildren. And I would stand with a camera, rolling, tape, rolling. Good old days, boys. And I would read children's books to Linda and a camera. And then we would watch it and she would say, do you believe it? Is it encouraging? Are you bringing. Bringing the child along for the ride?

Wow.

No. I hate. I hate myself doing this. She's like, we'll do better then. Make it more playful, more energetic. Act like you're into a child. So I'd read it again, and it was horrible, and I'm not a good reader. And then again, and then again and again. So before we got to tell us again how you were burned, who showed up? What was it like to wake up with our fingers? How'd you learn how to write? No, it was reading kids books to an older lady and to a camera. And those were some of my very first presentations given, and they were some of the worst presentations given. But sometimes you got to do to the. Do the bad to ultimately deliver the good.

That's wisdom right there. I mean, I know Darren and I encourage people to videotape themselves, which is fine. And they will do it. Then kind of hard part is watch it, watch it and learn from it. So you see, you do the hard stuff or do the bad ones. Yeah. Do the hard thing.

Yeah.

This is a powerful idea.

Do the bad ones to get good.

Yeah, the bad to get good. That's correct. You know what, though? We have been often telling people and trying to inspire people to understand, we from our own experience realize you don't start out that great. Right. But many times we want to start at a certain level. And if it's not good enough, and we do talk about good enough, in one of our other podcasts, we figure, well, I'm never going to do it.

Yes.

But I love what the. I think it was 14th century Persian philosopher Saadi S A A D. I said, he said, all things are difficult until they become easy. And the last part I added using my brain, logical brain. Well, that generally is time and practice. Yes, they become easy. It's time and usage. It's time and experience. But it becomes. It starts out hot and bad, but it becomes better as your life certainly bears out right now. When did. Did you think four years down the road when you said yes to three Girl Scouts, it could lead to a career. And at what point did you realize. Was there ever a point in your. In your progression, John, where you said, you know what? I could really bless people with this skill. Was there ever a moment like that in your experience?

Yeah, several. And as they start layering on top of one another, there's conviction for the work you're doing and why you would go through the Difficult why you would fail and fall trip, dust yourself up and do better. So there two that were most meaningful for me. One was a, a local Rotary club, but it was all the chapters combined as one. And again, I'm not being paid for this. I may have received a chicken dinner that night, but I was able to bring my mom and dad in. So they were honored guests. They were celebrated by this large room. And I remember thinking, isn't that cool that my heroes are being elevated by this big room, couple hundred people? And that was a meaningful night for me. And then there was a deal where we spoke at a prison in Fort Leavenworth. And again, I told you guys before we went live and recorded that you're on the phone with a guy who's an introvert. And you know, all these, all these mitigating factors that would suggest I would not become a speaker later on in life, those things are true now, but they were certainly true back then. So I'm going in here scared and not a convicted or confident presenter or even as a human being. But I'm on mission. I'm saying yes to opportunities and I'm reading note cards and eventually, about halfway through, realize like, that that's not at all what these guys need. And so I just put the cards down and start speaking authentically to them. And we have this exercise near the end where I have them make a list of what they're grateful for as a result of being here in prison, which is kind of a weird thing to do on the heels of me sharing what my father was grateful for because of Parkinson's disease. And it's this incredible list of joy in the midst of the storm. So I shared my father's story and I said, guys, listen, I was in hospital for six months. None of us want to be in this room. None of us want to be wearing these clothes. But even in the midst of this storm, what are you grateful for right now? And so I sat down, I just played the piano for them a little bit while they were taking notes, finished up that thing and I, I said, who wants to share your list? And by the way, as a speaker, I think what allows you to be great is to take risks. So if you're doing what everybody else is doing, you're going to be just like everybody else, which is fine. That's not bad. But I, I, I'm willing to take risk every day. I don't really care. I think that's ultimately when you allow them maybe to become the heroes of the story that we succeed together. So I'm always looking for opportunities to bring along the audience and allow them to shine. But there's risk involved, as you're about to find out. So I ask if anybody wants to share their list. One guy raises his hand and he reads word for word, not one damned thing. And then he crumbles up this piece of paper and throws it at me. Wow. Thank you for that. Well said. Anyone else? And there's a guy in the back of the room. This is a true story. Kind of musty, this musty room. This guy's got kind of dirty brown hair, unkempt. He stands, he says, I'll share. And he starts reading this. This list. And I'll. I'll forget a lot of the items on his list, but he included things like this as a result of being here at Fort Leavenworth. I am grateful for. And he reads three square meals. I never had that on the outside in the winter. Never had that on the outside. Air in the summer, boys. You ever think about that? We got AC in here. Never had that on the outside. He talked about the ability he had picked up in this facility to learn how to read. Again, he never learned how to read on the outside to get his ged, Access to books, access to the Internet, a chance of forgiveness, opportunity of redemption. Goes on and on and on. He sits down. When he's done, the entire room elevates. They all rise. When the first prisoner sat down, everybody laughed. When the second prisoner sat down, they stood up and cheered him, not me. They cheered colleague. And I remember just observing this, thinking, like, dude, is that the power we have as presenters to allow people to feel so intimately and wholly that it changes, like, the entire tone of the conversation once you walk out of the room?

Wow.

And that's what I tried to do in Fort Leavenworth. It's what I try to do in organizations, wherever I'm speaking, to change the temperature of the room once I'm gone. Not just while I'm there. That's easy. But once you're out, can you keep a change after you walk out?

Wow.

And that's about impacting. Impacting people's lives, hearts, minds, attitudes. And I believe that's a challenge for any presenter, but I believe it also speaks to the mindset behind why you do what you do.

Right.

I mean, you started off, I was asked to talk to three Girl Scouts. Okay, I'll tell them my story because they want it. But over time, the perspective shifts, as you said, you really want to be able to have an impact that have some kind of value you give. Now, what do you say, John, to the emerging speaker who says, well, I want to be a speaker, but I don't have. I wasn't burned over my whole body. I didn't die and come back to life. I don't play the piano with. With knuckles. I mean, you know, why should I even bother? How do you. And how do you encourage them?

Well, I think some of the most powerful stories that I share have nothing to do with playing the piano without knuckles, being burned to an inch of death, and then rising up and having a good life afterwards. I think the best stories that I share have very little to do with me. And the more ultimately we can share stories and insight into how the individuals in the audience are the heroes of their stories, the more effective we will be in changing their lives. The mistake we speakers too frequently make is to think that it is about us. About how high the peak was that I summited. About how difficult it was to go to the moon three different times. About how difficult it was to go through the 33rd skin graph. The reality is the audience doesn't really care. And so it's not enough. Because the reality is if you were in the audience, you wouldn't have either. You're thinking a lot more about your marriage. You're thinking a lot more about your dad. You're thinking a lot more about your kids. You're thinking a lot more about this economy. You're thinking a lot more about your addiction or your dreams or your life than you are about some mountain climber, burn survivor, or overcomer. So then the job of those people with terrific stories is to remind them in the audience, it's not about the one with the microphone. It's about all of us in the audience. So you don't. So all that to say this. You don't need a crazy story to move audiences, to move minds and hearts. I think sometimes in sharing a remarkable story, you are actually maybe detrimentally blocking the audience from moving forward in their stories. Because the mistake I used to make a lot as an early speaker is people would come up to me and say, well, it's not like you, but. Or I've never been through anything bad, but. And they almost felt like less than because the story was so terrific, wasn't relatable. Yeah, we want to be highly relatable. And the way you do so is to focus less on your story, more on theirs.

And if you're watching this live, please feel free to put in a Comment, Mark, we got one from Rafiq.

Hey, Rafiq, good to see you, my friend.

Not sure how to pronounce that, but he was recapping one of John's quotes. Do the bad and ultimately deliver the good. So thank you for posting that. We greatly appreciate it. And I just love the willingness to take risks because that's the opposite of what our human body. And especially if you're an emerging speaker, you don't want to take the risks because you're afraid to screw up. Well, impact is on the other side of the risk. And, John, let's go back to your story a little bit. Even though a lot of your powerful stories aren't about that, just what you say and how you say it. I remember sitting there in the audience listening to you just in awe and like, you bring humor to one of the most tragic stories I've ever heard. I just forever will love your line when your dad. After the. Well, I'll let you set it up. But what your thought was about your dad, to bring levity to that. That's as a comedian background, that's like, that's the ultimate. But I'll let you.

Yeah, there's a lot there. The first is if we aren't moving the audience to laughter and tears and movement, then we're not doing our jobs as well as we could otherwise. So I learned early on, because, you know, I'm John o' Leary living in the Midwest. Irish folks naturally have humor to get them through the misery of their lives. It's cloudy every day in Ireland and it rains a lot of the potatoes. Potatoes get old after a while, man. So like, when we came over, like, we needed humor to not take the struggle so seriously, and that is still true. And like, big, big Irish families. And so I'm from a mother and a father who were both Irish. And so humor was a big part of our lives. And if that's true, it ought to be a big part of our delivery as speakers. So even if I'm in a storm, when I'm sharing something difficult, I try about halfway through that, about three to five minutes in, to shock the audience where they think they're about to cry, and all of a sudden they're like, I'm laughing. What is it okay? Like, is it okay for me to be laughing right now? And if you pay attention to horror movies, they will have that same kind of build out where you're. They open up the closet door, oh, it's nothing. And you almost find yourself as an audience member, laughing like oh, it's okay. But then it's like, no, it's not okay. The monster's over there. And so the more you take them on this wild roller coaster ride, the faster that hour goes and the more transformational it is once the hour is over. So the specific story you're talking about is after John o', Leary, your guest today, blows up a can of gasoline in his face and burns himself and almost dies and burns down the house. And there's a lot involved in that story, of course, of heroes that morning of. But once I finally get to the hospital, the first person back to see me is my dad. You know, I'm nine and I'm laying in a hospital bed, no clothes on, no skin. I'm dying. I knew I was dying. And, Darren, what you heard in Florida when you and I met was, I'm looking up at the bright light, and this is all true story. I'm looking up at the bright light, and the only thought I had was, oh, my gosh, my dad is going to kill me when he finds out. When, When. When dad finds out I burned down the house. He's just going to. He's going to tear me up. And then he walks into this room, and the first thing he says to me is, john, look at me when I'm talking to you. So I look up and I see his finger in my face, and, you know, the judgment index finger pointed right at me. And I look up, right through it toward him, into his eyes, and he says, I have never been so proud of anyone in my entire life. And my little buddy this morning, I am simply proud to be your dad. And then he says, I love you. I love you, I love you. And there's nothing you could do about it. The final part of this little story I'll frequently share live, and it's true, is I remember crossing my arms, shutting my eyes tight, thinking, oh, my gosh, nobody told my dad what happened. The old man doesn't know I burned down the house. Maybe I can get away with it. You tell this story, there's pictures back behind you, backing it up, and it's so real and raw. But it's not because, oh, he got burned and his dad was mean, and now he's nice. The audience knows, like, yeah, I've messed up, too. And I had that disciplinarian figure, and they did judge me poorly sometimes, and they did have moments of grace, and we need the two and the tension between. And that pulls us forward. Not into John's story, but into Ours. And that's the power of storytelling. When it's done well, that there's sadness in humor and drama and trauma, and it all merges together to ultimately animate us as listeners into action.

And you set it up so well by adding the tension where he, you know, puts his finger in your face, and then I will never, ever or I will always nothing. And, like, that moment of hesitation just draws you in, and then, bam. The humor, it's. It's just well done. And again, if you're listening to this, there's humor in your story, even your tragic stories.

Right before you say that, Darren, before I forget, I don't want you to lose my thought here. I pictured this, John, and maybe I'm the only one who does this, but I pictured. You say you're dying. I know I'm dying. You're being drawn towards the light, you know, kind of thing. And this figure just kind of blocks the light. Wait, you can't leave yet. Got a bone to pick with you, young man. Yes. And that, to me, was also this moment of, oh, my gosh, he's going towards the light, and then all of a sudden, it's dad. And this is how I thought about it.

So that's pretty awesome. Actually, it's pretty accurate as well.

Mark, that was the visual I saw when you made it. Told the story.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Yeah. And what I also love is you have these points of wisdom all along the way. So it's a powerful story. We're with you. But you almost step out for a second to, boom, drop the wisdom.

And.

And by the way, Mark is when his head's down, he's taking notes because we're going to recap at the end. So he's very much engaged. Just.

I figured he was sleeping, and I have that effect on many audience members. I just figured he was part of the healthy majority who just passed out about halfway through the o' Leary keynote.

John, trust me, you are in no way soporific.

Oh, man.

Soporific. Or sleep inducing. Here we go, John. True story. For years, Darren. I'll say a word, he'll go for his dictionary. And just to make me feel bad.

About.

The problem is I don't even know how to look up the words because I don't know how to spell them because I'm just. Anyway. Yeah, well, so you dropped some points of wisdom. Like, what I love, too, is it's not just. It's not like cliche wisdom, but one of your points of wisdom is it Changes the life of the giver and that.

Whoa.

So you have several points along the way. And those of you, if you haven't heard John's story, Jack Buck, famous radio announcer, sports announcer, was one of the heroes in John's story. And I just love what he did and how he did it. And when he asked you to write him a thank you note but you couldn't and you had no fingers and, and he was asking you to do something because he knew you needed that push and he was that person in your life that you look up to and you admired. If it's like your mom or dad who said it might not have had the same effect, but Jack Buck asked you to do the impossible. There's just, it's a. Anyway, I love you.

Man on Radio for a moment. Sometimes folks will ask, where did your style of presenting come from? And like, I do love great presentations, but it's not from watching other great speakers as much as two things. One is I love radio. I love baseball in particular. And a great announcer. The reality about baseball, for the baseball fans in the room, there's not a more miserably slow sport in the entire world than baseball. It's pretty slow going on July 3rd with two and a half months left and you're a fourth place team. Like it's hard to be engaging in the third inning. Down four, nothing. So then what does a radio announcer do to make sure that you don't go anywhere? Tell stories well, and there's that pause and they don't try to fill it like an auctioneer. They don't try to get in as much content during that three hour game as they can. They let the background noise kind of tell the story too. And the audience noise, imagine that. Imagine as a presenter allowing audience noise to help tell the story. So I, I love the way a great radio announcer will, will broadcast a baseball game. And I wanted to do something similar as a presenter. So that's one area that I drew some inspiration as a presenter. And secondarily, like I'm a Christian, so I go to church on Sundays. But where I get inspiration during the week as a human but also as a presenter is from great radio pastors. And the way these guys, man, they, they draw content for day after day after day, 30 minutes at a time. And they get you to laugh and feel and learn and do, gosh, their cadence, whether, whether you're Christian or not, there's something we can borrow from their cadence that when applied well and when honed with practice, can move Any audience.

And Rafiq had another question. I'll throw in my two cents. But, John, if you have any thoughts on this, should humor come before tragedy or after, which is more effective in storytelling? My quick answer is yes. Is it depends. It's not a before or after. It can be to release the tension and then add tension before we get to the tragedy. In your situation, it is after the major tragedy. But I would just say I think it's gotta be organic is the key. And usually comes out in a line of dialogue, which, you know, if you listen to Mark and I's podcast a lot, we always talk about dialogue. We just had an episode that came out recently about dialogue versus narration. And John. John's line that he delivers is internal dialogue. Oh, my gosh, no one told my dad what happened. That's internal dialogue. But, John, your thoughts on this question?

Yeah. So it's funny you say yes. That would have been my answer too, but then it forced into a corner. Almost always I'll begin a presentation with humor. And I found that when I used to begin more with the trauma, it was harder for folks to recognize it was safe to laugh. When I began with humanizing the story and the guy delivering it, they recognize immediately, like, okay, I get where this thing is going. They don't know the depth of it and the drama and the trauma of it, but they understand that if this guy doesn't take himself too seriously, but he takes the work we're about to do together very seriously, that this can be indeed a very meaningful conversation. So if we get him to laugh early, they'll be freer to do it later on.

Excellent and tough question. You said we could ask you anything. Had you ever made any mistakes early on telling your story where maybe you lost the audience?

Yeah, tons of times. So when I started rolling my eyes thinking about how should I answer? It was with, which time should I use as the example to fall on the sword? But the more we humbly fall in front of the audience, the more they say, gosh, she's like us. So even the way I dress, I try not to dress above. Yesterday I was in Las Vegas wearing a T shirt. Not because I don't respect the audience, but that's what they were wearing. I want to meet them where they are. Always, always respect the people that you are presenting in front of. So the times in the past when I used to make the greatest mistakes primarily were around the times when I wanted to get 100% of the audience to like me. And there's a Lot that we could unpack around that. But part of that was if I would see someone on a phone, I used to call it out. I think there's a way to walk over toward them. I think there's a way to whisper. Like, you know, it's so easy in life to, you know, rather than being in the moment to actually look down at your phone and get lost in things that don't. Like, there's ways to be indirect about this that are good, but when you're like. And there's people in the back row right now, don't even look up. Like, all that does is you make them feel horrible. They could be responding to a daughter's suicide ideation that they're discussing at home. And now you're calling them out and what are you doing, o'? Leary? Not only are you running for them, there were 84 other people or 2,000 other people engaged. And as soon as you caught the guy in the back row, every single head swivels from you where they were, another lost. And now you lost not only the one, but the all. So the mistake I used to make is to think I was really courageous in calling out one or really challenging the folks who weren't going along for the ride to join me. And now what? What I've recognized is be bold and attracting one and then another and then another. But don't go. Don't swing for 100%. Start with 1 and then grab that beach head and move onward from there.

Funny. Very early on, I was told to find a friendly face in the audience. I'm talking 95, 96. Very, very early on, when I began speaking, I was told to find a friendly face. And I didn't realize the power of the comfort it could give. But also, you no longer choose to challenge that person in the back row. I remember one time. This may not be the right approach, but to piggyback on that real quickly, John. I had a youth audience. I've had many high school audiences. And they had a device in their hand. I said, yep, I know what you're saying. This guy sucks about me and the kids. And they busted out laughing. And it was great. It was fine. It was humor and it was. I didn't call the kid out. I'm like, yep, yeah, I can tell. And I made it about my being. I made it self depreciating.

That where you gained the audience, Mark. Yes. Yeah, it's okay for you to make yourself the butt of the joke, but never the audience.

In my mind, yeah, I Remember Johnny Carson, when he was wrapping up his stint in the Tonight show, was asked, you know, what was it about you? What was your magic? And he said he thought about it, and he said, I always played up to my audience, and I just thought that was brilliant. And then Mark, you know, the story of Dave Fitzgerald, my comedy mentor, passed away. He started before he did comedy. He was speaking at AA groups, and he said, I could see the guys in the back of the room who were there because the judge told them they have to with their arms crossed. And he said, but I made it my goal to be so funny that they had to uncross their arms and say, hey, I'd drink with this guy.

Yeah.

But making that to engage them so much that they put things down. So, like, if you got Everybody laughing or 80% of the audience laughing and the other people are distracted, they'll be like, oh, what did I miss? And they'll put down their phone to listen because they missed the humor. Anyway, that's my thought. And with our goal to be unforgettable. Do you have any comments that you heard after that just touched you so much that. That just made it worth all the work and the effort and the travel. Any standout in your mind?

There's too many. And that's not a humble brag. It's just true. Like, every time my. Let me answer it this way. My favorite part of speaking is not the stage, it's afterwards. It's actually where you and I met Darren. It's the one to one line. And the good old days, just hugs and handshakes. Now it's mostly book signing, where they get to share the effect of that message on their life. And in doing so, they share the dark corners of their life that they may not share with their spouse, they certainly don't share with co workers. And then you walk into a big client conference, whatever that might be for you, and these human beings are being extraordinarily vulnerable with you. Like, for me, it's deeply meaningful. Last week, I'll share one that stands up from just. Well, last week, on Thursday, I was speaking at a McDonald's general managers meeting. So McDonald's is a global business major player, but the GM is one of the more difficult roles that I could fathom professionally. It's a. It's a very difficult role. You're. You're working with young employees, sometimes challenging colleagues to customers. Like, everything is happening. The Friar is not working today. Like, there's a million things going on, and you've got a Lot of responsibility coming at you fast. So I. I went out there to give them a leadership session. It's part of this quarterly thing we do with the. These GMs. And one of the questions I asked of them was, share with me one of the most inspirational people in your life. And wine. So they. They turn to a neighbor, they share. And then eventually I said, anybody want to share with the entire room? Couple hundred GMs in the room. And one lady shares about growing up. And just hear, hear what she says, because it's always more than what people say. So you got to really listen. She said, growing up, we didn't have a car like that alone at a gm. That says a lot. And then she said our pastor would drive out on Sundays and Wednesdays to pick us up at the trailer park. There was a lot said there, too. And she said, he made me realize not only the power of faith in my life, but the fact that my life mattered. It's like. But she said something. And like, that is an amazing story. Three people later, at a different table, a woman shares that she spent some time in prison. That says a lot about her life. And then she went on to say, when she got out, she did not have a license or a car. She took a bus to interview for this job at McDonald's. And there was a GM who believed enough in her to make the hire. And then she said, and Shelly, I want to thank you for being that gm. Wow. The previous woman who shared about the pastor coming out to her house was the same leader. Now, who has taken a chance on someone who's got no license, no car, and a record. So what are the stories? The stories aren't about. I think I told the story of Jack Buck really good last Tuesday. Look at. Listen to how I did it. Not at all. The stories are about what the audience are opening up and sharing, not only with me, but with one another, reminding everyone else who's got any ears to listen with or heart to feel with that if they weren't paying attention to o', Leary, they're missing out because this is a story about them. Ultimately, the more we can mix an audience so that the real heroes in the story aren't John and the people he shares from the platform, but the leaders we work with every day, who we've never taken the time to really get to know their stories, that's when we've done something magical, and that's when we've really earned our keep.

It's funny. I've said for so many so many months, years by now. I've always said the story is about you, but it's for them. When you tell your story in a way that connects to them and their experience and they think of their own story and they think they can share their own story, then you really serve them well. And, John, you're doing that time and time again. That's just powerful, really powerful.

Can I add one more little thing on that is just, please, I am not after perfection, and this might get me thrown off your show or never invited back in.

I know people. Don't worry, you're good. I know people.

I sometimes raise my hand at the wrong time and put it in the pocket at the wrong time. And this. The left side of the stage should be humor. On the right side, serious. And I get those mixed up like, I'm all over the board sometimes. But without a doubt, he's a believable character. He's authentic and he's for you. So as an audience member, if you're feeling those things like, that guy is believable, he's extreme, incredibly authentic, and he's for me. They will give you so much grace when you dangle prepositions and use your hands poorly and have the wrong slide up at the wrong time. So, yes, grow in the profession and grow in the craft and become excellent. To do that less than that is a disservice to your creator in my mind. And at the same time, the more you can just be radically authentic and for them, the more they will not only go along for the ride, but offer you a little bit of grace when you misstep.

Nice.

Be radically authentic, man.

As we start to wrap this up, John Mark is going to put together the keepers, the wisdom that you dropped. We love to recap it.

It'll be a short list today, listeners.

I beg to differ, but thank you. What advice? If you were sitting down over coffee with an emerging presenter who really had a story, they really wanted to help the audience, what. What advice would you give them over coffee?

I'd order a large coffee. Because we'll need more time than this question will. Let me take the first is, it's not about you. It's not about you. And I'd say, no, really, I need you to write that down. And they'll be like, yeah, I know, but it's such a good story and I got the diagnosis and then I over. No, no, no. But I need you to hear this again. It's not about you. So that would be the very first bullet, the Second would probably be what's in it for them? Like, how does that mountain experience or whatever else? How does that influence positively their life? What are their key takeaways? Would probably be the third. What's one thing they can do afterwards because they got to meet you today and hear your story and learn about their own life today? How do you interact with the audience to make them feel alive in a marketplace that comes in, dreading the day, utterly isolated, feeling despair, struggling with hope? How does that experience with you renew them? And so these would be some of the things I would ask them. I would probably ask them around how many bullets they have, and I would remind them. I had nine, then seven, then five. I gave an hour and a half keynote yesterday. I had two. And I said, at the end of this, I want you to pick one that you will do. I don't want even you to leave a two. I want one. I want one. So those would be some of the things I would drop while we had coffee together.

And Rafiq said, this is gold. Thank you, Darren, Mark and John. And before we get to the keeper's last question, John, how would people get a hold of you? So I have up that you know, John O' LearyInspires.com social media. How would people reach out to you? By the way, if you're an event planner and you have a big conference coming up, John is amazing. And the connection that he has with the audience is unforgettable and his story is unforgettable. But the wisdom that you walk away with is just amazing. Please consider John for your conference, opening, closing, whenever. So, John, how else would people. And by the way, John has a podcast, if you like inspirational stories. John has a podcast as well as his book On Fire.

Is that daily, John?

It's twice weekly. We drop on Mondays and Thursdays. And that's one more thing I would do as a young speaker, is keep leaving breadcrumbs to further encourage the folks that you had an opportunity and the honor of speaking to. So when I first started speaking, I thought, deliver a good speech, that's it. Then have a good handout to leave behind, that's it. Then those two things plus a newsletter that dropped monthly. That's it. And what if it should drop weekly? That's it. Then a podcast, then a book, then now they're working on a movie, coaching all these things, not. Not as marketing. That's the wrong approach. As service. How do I serve the one that we had the honor of spending some time with today? So your Job as presenters is not to present or speak well. It is to serve authentically and over time so that as we've been doing this for 16 years and we're just. We're servants and we. We love it. So how do you stay in touch? I. I think where you capture the podcast and the book and the newsletter is@John O' Leary inspires.com and there's links there on to social media. This is my phone number there. We're here. Like, it sounds kind of random or radical to use your word, but if you need help, I'm here to surf. So my number's online. My email's online. The answer is yes. Wow.

Mark Brown, what do we got for keepers?

Okay. It'll be a very short, long list. Say yes to opportunities and work to positively influence lives. Focus on your audience's struggle and begin with the audience's needs in mind. Do the bad and ultimately deliver the good. Oof. That one is precious. It's this. Taking risks allows you to be great. Take risks. Change the temperature in the room even after you leave. Not a bit of gold right there. Our best stories have very little to do with us. You know what? It's not about you. Be highly relatable. Move your audience to laughter and tears. Share the drama and the trauma. Oh, I love this. Respect your audience. Meet them where they are. Keep leaving them some breadcrumbs. And don't think marketing, think service, think.

That's a solid. It's a solid podcast right there, man. I don't know who said all that, but she rocked the world, man. That's good stuff.

And you didn't say it this time, but I love the wisdom that getting out of bed doesn't mean you're awake.

Right.

And for those of you who are speakers, getting up on the platform doesn't mean you're unforgettable or unforgettable in a good way. So, John, thank you for being here. Thank you for what you do for the world, that you are a servant of the big Guy, and I know he's proud of you because you have affected me. You make me want to be better. And Mark Brown, take us home.

My friends, John o' Leary has given us a wonderful perspective of what it takes to be not only great, but to be unforgettable. I hope you'll take some of these keepers, apply them to how you live your life. And remember, think service. Think of what you have to offer the audience. And if all of us continue to use that perspective, I can guarantee you you will be unforgettable.

See you next week.

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