Ep. 199 Receiving Tough Feedback

Hey there, Mark Brown, did you ever get tough feedback, especially early on in your career, whether it's from an audience, maybe it's from the event planner, or maybe it's from a coach. How do you receive tough feedback?

Well, let's talk about that today.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? Difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? Ahas, let's dive right in.

And Mark, I forgot one little category for those of you listening who are toastmasters, and maybe in a contest, and maybe everyone in the room told you you should have won and well, apparently you didn't talk to a judge. But that's also very tough feedback in a different category. But that's what we want to tackle today is look at if you're out there speaking, you're gonna get feedback whether you ask for it or not.

Yep.

Whether it's actually verbally communicated to you or you just read the room or get an email or get an email after the fact. Yeah, absolutely. I remember, Mark, you know the story when I bombed at Chatham and I called up my mentor, Rick, I was like, I'm done, I quit. I'm just not meant for this. And I called up my mentor and he gave the immutable two most powerful letters in the world. When I told him I bombed, he said, so how do you argue? It's so, Mark, do you ever get tough feedback?

Oh, listen, when most recently, I mean, the truth is we all get it. I can recall I had recently become a Toastmasters world champion and I wanted to take on the world and deliver my messages. And back then we didn't have have PowerPoint, we had those foil plastic overheads. Thank you. The overhead projection. Now, if you're a millennial or younger, it's okay to ask Siri, ask ChatGPT and Google what the overhead plastic foils were. And I went to a conference and I prepared my slides. I went to the copy machine and I put them on the foils and I delivered my presentation. And a wise, more mature couple approached me afterwards, told me I did a good job, but also let me know how horrendous those foils were.

Foiled again.

If you have been told your PowerPoint slides are crappy it's okay. I got that before PowerPoint even existed. But Darren, what it did was it made me think, okay, that did not go well. How can I do it better next time? And the key for me there was, as we say today, receiving tough feedback was my ego bruised, definitely. I was the world champion, I was a guest speaker, I was a celebrity, I was the individual of the day. They came to see me and hear me and I delivered value. But in the process I did something poorly and I had to hear that in order to goad myself to improve going forward. The concern I have and I've seen this happen is some people don't receive that well and they walk away in a huff and they deprive. They deprive two people, they deprive themselves of the opportunity to share their message again in a better way and they deprive their future audiences of the benefit of gaining wisdom from them. So I have to humble myself and receive that will and think, how can I do it better next time?

Yeah. I love the story by Patricia Fripp. When she was speaking at an international convention and someone came up to her after and she had spoken on the main stage and she was about to do another presentation in a breakout room and someone said, can I give you some feedback? And she said, no, but here's why. The person might have been well meaning and it might have been decent feedback, but she knew she was about to take the stage again and that would have messed with her mind. And that's why there's a time and a place. Now that doesn't always mean other people understand there's a time and a place. So just like that well meaning person, you may get some feedback when you're not ready for it, when you're not open for it. But we're telling you, take it, receive it, write it down. I love the. There was an Oprah interview with Steven Tyler when he was a judge. I think it was on American Idol. And here's what we need to remember about this feedback. To receive it, to put it in its proper perspective. When Steven Tyler, lead singer of Aerosmith, was a judge, he said, when I say you're not the American Idol and they send people home, what he's really saying is, you're not the American Idol today. Today. He said he didn't. He was very clear. He's like, I'm not saying you'll never be, but just not today. And he said, what the. Now he's talking musicians. He says, what these musicians, singers, songwriters, performers need to do is go back into the clubs and learn a few more lessons. And, you know, for those of you who are toastmasters, okay, you gotta go give some more presentations. I love the idea of using the word clubs. And if it's your boss, I didn't even factor that in. If you're doing a corporate presentation, your boss gives you tough feedback. We've got to. The ego's there, it's there, we've heard it. It can get bruised. But what we don't want you to do is stop. Because even in the harshest feedback, there may be that little critical nugget of truth that we need to hear. So even though it may be harsh, it may be tough to hear, please listen for that nugget because it's going to serve you next time. And as Steven Tyler said, it's just one moment in time. And this person could be way off base. This person could not be a speaker. This person might not be a great speaker, they might be a horrible speaker. Yet if you've ever listened to us before, we say there's two kinds of feedback. Here's what I thought and felt, and here's how to make it better. So if they're giving you a thought and felt, they're qualified to tell you that now they're processing it through their life experience and what they bring to it. And what we look for is commonalities, but we've got to take the time to receive it. And look, here's the thing. We love the glory of the stage. We love the applause. Well, with the glory and applause comes unsolicited feedback. And I'm also going to encourage you to. What I always say about feedback is crave feedback. Don't just take what comes to you. And if somebody even comes up and says, that was awesome, take a minute and say, what part was awesome? What was it that was said? Well, when you told the story, your mom and dad, that part. Okay, so if you start hearing that commonality, you know, that's good. Keep it. Study how you did it. And also, that's why we encourage you to record your presentation. So in the moment, you could say, that's stupid. But a week later, go back, watch the recording with that feedback, and you might just see, ooh, they were right. That was kind of offensive.

And there's something that's there. There's two points I want to make here. I want to go back to one thing you said earlier about craving feedback. When we say crave feedback, most of us want to crave the Pat on.

The back, not the feedback.

Don't crave the pat on the back. Crave the feedback. And the mindset must be, what can I learn from this? This is the thing. Here's the other piece to that. The second piece is that not everyone delivers their feedback in a pleasant way. Some individuals can be very direct and they don't realize how direct they are because that's their means of communication. The fact is, to some individuals, words are a means of conveying a message and they don't attach emotion to what they're saying. Please hear my heart, friends. There'll be individuals who will meaningfully tell you what they believe in a manner that you may not find that palatable. But get behind the words to the intent of the words. Don't crave only the pat on the back. Crave feedback. Knowing what you get may not be what you expect. Darren, you used to always ask for feedback and you often tell a story of the two individuals who were more mature with crossed arms and scowls on their faces. I didn't feel anything. Now, when you first heard that, what was your initial response to that?

Didn't make any sense. I don't get it. It's a speech. What are you talking about? Feeling.

But when you took the feedback, you responded to it and you asked yourself, what are they really saying? When you were open to receiving that, it changed the way you delivered the presentation. Now, they're not being very honest here. My mentor went through the same thing. David Brooks, 1990 world champion. He didn't win on his first try. He gave his speech, thought it was great, did not win, and someone said, dave, no. He would have won if you just made a point. And he had to receive that. Go back. And the following year, he went on to become a world champion and one of the greatest mentors of other world champions ever because he was able to receive that tough feedback. You hear. You got to make a point. Doesn't make any sense. You might go, oh, man, it hurt my feelings. It goes beyond that.

Yeah. If you've heard me talk about the most important part of a presentation, it's the thought process in the listener's mind. And think deep on that. It's not your opening, it's how your opening affects our thoughts. It's not your message, it's how your message affects our thoughts. So without tough feedback, we might miss those golden opportunities to truly be unforgettable. We need that tough feedback. Mark. I remember going to different clubs when I was working on my contest speech and I Said, look, my mother has already heard the speech. Give it to me, give it to me. Because if I can't stand up to tough feedback here in a practice speech, how am I ever going to connect with and impress 21 judges in front of 2,000 people? So we've got to crave it. And look, it doesn't mean some of it doesn't hurt. It may it can. But maybe that's exactly the lesson that you need to become unforgettable.

You know, the hard truth is this. You just said, maybe that is the lesson that you need to become unforgettable. That phrase sparked the thought in my mind. Darren, I wonder how many of us are this close to being unforgettable. But one comment, one comment backs us off and we stop just short of that place. Friends, please hear our hearts today. We have all gotten tough, harsh feedback. We've all gotten feedback that was well intentioned, but came across in a very critical manner. And I regret to say this, but I've also gotten communications from speakers who told me that they have received comments from Toastmasters, World champions and pro speakers that were so difficult for them, they choose to step away. So here's what I'm going to. I'm going to turn the dial slightly. We're talking about how we receive tough feedback. Let me insert. Think about how you deliver tough feedback. As well as a presenter, you're also an audience member. As a speaker, you're also a listener and a viewer. So please be mindful of how you deliver feedback. You can give strong advice, but watch your words. Because you never know. You could be the one person, inadvertently, without meaning to, without intending to, who may cause someone to stop and step back. So here's my request. Put yourself in their place. Were I going to receive this feedback, what would I say and how would I say it? That's for me, that's for Darren, that's for all of us and for all of you. Because we want to help each other grow and to become unforgettable. So please, two thoughts here. One, sometimes we stop just this short of becoming unforgettable because of feedback we receive. Flip it and ask yourself, will the feedback I deliver encourage, inspire, or tear someone down? Food for thought.

Yeah, great point, Mark. And look, if you want to be unforgettable, there's a point in your career, if you're just getting started, you need that encouragement. Don't get us wrong, encouragement is important, especially at the beginning of the career. But when you get too good, when you get to great you have to be tough enough to crave that feedback. Because, Mark, I've never had a mentor or a coach nice me into growth.

Same here. Same here.

You just. You got to get to that point of confidence and you got to be tough to receive tough feedback. You've got to be tough to receive tough feedback. And again, it can be painful. But if we can frame it that it's one moment in time, that it's one audience, and then realize that tough feedback will serve us for the next audience and look for that kernel of truth that you need to know, Mark.

I like that. Look for that kernel of truth. Love it. Love it. Here's the thing, though. Ask yourself this question, too. Did that individual say that to me to hurt me? Is there intent to put me down?

Sometimes. Feel bad, by the way. Sometimes it is, but yes, I know.

But when you ask the question, if you understand. No, if you know the person and you understand their intent, perhaps you won't even bother to listen to them because that's their goal. Yeah. But for the most part, ask yourself, do they really want me to be in pain over this? And look beyond the pain and find, as the Darren said, find that nugget of truth. If there's something of value I can use, I'm going to use it. And again, given the opportunity to help someone else or to advise someone else, I will choose my language based upon my experience. I wouldn't want anyone to feel the way I did, but I want them to grow in the way I did. That's one way to approach it.

Yeah. So when we do give that feedback, we need to be careful when we're delivering it. And. And if you can adjust it, like if you're giving tough feedback, if you can adjust it on how it would help the next audience, if you had just mentioned this or if you had framed it, so frame it for the next audience, and that may be helpful. But again, if it's the event planner, look there and consider this. The event planner looks at it from one direction. An audience member looks at it from another direction. A coach looks at it from another direction.

And.

And we need all three. We need all three if we're going to be unforgettable.

Darren. Along that line, we talk about becoming an unforgettable presenter. Yes, that's our main focus on this podcast. But Darren mentioned the meeting planner as well, and the corporate executive. And at times, a meeting planner will offer you feedback that isn't based solely upon your presentation. It also may be based upon the experience they have working with you. And sometimes you learn from hearing what a meeting planner has to say or a producer has to say or the audio video technician has to say. Take everything that they say in a way that will help you. I remember one time I was doing a program in Las Vegas, Nevada. The full keynote fee was great and it was unusual because the event planner and their technical team wanted to get my slides beforehand to convert it to a different format that was going to be images. They put in a master deck. Now, Darren, you and I discussed already where we have often have companies or event planners, they ask for your slide deck in advance. This was different. They wanted to convert to image and they couldn't convert it properly. And it became this thing called. But I wasn't aware of this particular option. It made me realize the importance of having that conversation with the meeting planner and tech team ahead of the event to make sure that piece of my program was going to be okay. Very often, as you know, when we're new and emerging presenters, we don't pay as much attention to the technical side of presenting because we focus on delivering a good presentation and giving value to the audience. Guess what? Your audience is not just the people sitting in the room or behind the camera online. Your audience is a meeting planner. Your audience is the event booker, the agent. Your audience is the corporate CEO or the corporate leaders who are there depending on you to help reinforce their message. So the hard part of creating feedback is you really want to hear what they have to say. And the toughest question I ask is what could I have done to serve you better? I will confess, Darren, I almost cringe every time I ask that question. But in my post event, I always ask that question. I always take notes and sometimes it hurts, but when it hurts, it helps.

Bam. Bam. That's beautiful. And remember too, we're looking for commonalities. Your audience's thoughts can't be wrong. Your audience's thoughts can't be wrong. So if there's a commonality that I got confused when you brought up Barbara walking into the library. If a few people say that, guess what? It's confusing and needs clarity. So they may just point out spots that you need to go to your coach and work with or bring that to them. I remember Mark, I crave the feedback. But it was in bringing the feedback to you, my coach, that we were able to solve the problem. So it was especially the tough feedback was essential to making my presentation my championship speech. Unforgettable. Same for you. The feedback you get the tough feedback you get is critical for you to evolve as a presenter.

I can recall one time I was coaching a speaker who actually happened to be in a Toastmasters contest several years ago. And in my comments, I sent him a note, I said, listen, this is not your best work. Your audience deserves more from you. I know it's in you. I believe in you. I trust you. You have to go deeper. You can do better. Give them more. This individual went on to compete in the Toastmasters contest. They finished either second or third that year and later sent me an email and they said, basically, I was pretty upset with you when you told me what you did. I thought you were pushing me too hard. However I received it, I made the changes and now I'm one of the top three in the world. Thank you for giving me that tough feedback. It really helped. I don't share the story to make you feel, oh, Mark was so great at it. No, I've been on both sides. But I just recall that story when Darren, you mentioned that, because I realized I did hurt them initially, but they were able to divorce the emotion of the moment from the value of the moment. And if we can be careful to do that for ourselves, but also in delivering feedback, separate the emotion from the value that then to me, everybody wins.

Amen. And especially your next audience. And when your next audience wins, you win because you evolve. We need that tough love in order to grow again. Fluffy feedback.

I love that phrase.

Only encourages at the beginning of your career and when you're freaking out, when you're just getting started, we need that. That's essential. But when you get to that good and great level now, you've got to be open to that tough love. You want the applause, you got to be open to the tough love because that will highlight problems and challenges with you, your style, your content, your 32 words on one slide, whatever that is. But do you want to be unforgettable? And if so, then you've got to receive the tough feedback as well as the pat on the back feedback as well as the standing ovation. And we tell you this because sometimes people miss the true value of tough feedback, that kernel of truth that is going to help you evolve and help your next audience as well.

So here's my last thought for you, my assignment for you, if you wish. If you've delivered a presentation recently or a talk recently and you got feedback you were not that willing to receive, if you were willing to receive a written evaluation at a conference or event or for a paid keynote that you've put aside and I've done that myself several times. I invite you to bite the bullet. Suck it up. Go back and look at the feedback. Go back and review the email. Go back and take a look at the comments. And as far as you can, put emotion aside and ask where is the value in all of these comments? Especially when it's 55 or 60 people who gave comments and it was emailed to you in an Excel spreadsheet? Who's been there before? I have. But ask yourself, what can I change as a result of what they've said? With the emotion aside, how can I make my presentation better? When you do that, then you're on your way to being unforgettable.

Remember what Steven Tyler said, you just might not be the American Idol today. You just got to learn a few more things so you can in fact let the tough feedback be a rung in your ladder. So you are unforgettable. See you next week.

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