Ep. 211 Too Many Coaches?

Hey there, Mark Brown. Too many coaches. I can't imagine whether you're a speech contestant or a keynote speaker, we recommend, we implore you to get a coach. But Mark, I think some people have taken our advice so much that they go and get as many coaches as they possibly can, as many people to look at as possibly can, and they might be qualified. So we've had episodes before where we say find a qualified coach because you have to discern the feedback if you've heard it before. But I'll remind you that there's. Here's what I thought and felt, which is important. Here's how to make it better. There's a big difference. We've talked about that before, but I want to just lay that out there as the reminder. What we're talking about today is having qualified coaches. But we've seen it. We've seen this challenge that it brings up where. When you have many qualified coaches and now you got a new issue.

Well, Darren, let's talk about what happens when you choose too many coaches.

Anyone can give a presentation, few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. Ahas. Let's dive right in.

Hey there, Mark Brown. I have to say, there's one thing I did right back in 2001, and I don't know where this came from or why this came from, but I had one main coach who was you, that person that I had that relationship with. And I went and asked for advice from David Brooks, from Ed Tate, from Craig Valentine, from Otis Williams Jr. So I sought out the other world champions and they're all qualified, but because they've been there and done that, they're all qualified. But when I get advice or feedback from either a club or another world champion, I ran it by you because you were the one who knew the whole story. All my insecurities now saw this happen this year with at least one contestant in the Toastmasters speech contest when, look, the stakes are high and if you're a keynote speaker, the stakes are even higher because this is your profession, this is what you choose to do for a living. So contest. Yes. Emotionally super important profession. Yes. Super important. Both. So when you get to the higher level stakes are high and you want to get. You want to get every. Like, I think some people mistakenly think there's this formula out there that the other World champions know, that if I could just tap into this formula. No, no, it's not about that formula. But, Mark, what I did is I brought things to you. I brought feedback that I got from other people to you, but I had you as my main coach. The challenge is if you know Verity is a great. Verity Price, World Champion, great coach. Lance Miller, great coach. Our friend, our former student, Alexandre. Matt, great coach, all qualified. But. But what do you do when you have qualified coaches that give you the opposite advice? Who do you go with then? So it is a challenge and it can actually be very frustrating. Mark, your thoughts.

Well, I can only share my experience. I was competing a gazillion Years ago in 1995, my second round at the Toothmasters Contest. And please, to our listeners, we're not trying to just elevate only Toastmasters. Please take it in context, but apply the principle across your life and your career as well. I had competed in 94, very green, very naive, and my coach presented himself. David Brooks, 1990 world champion. First of all, here's someone who had been where I want to be. If you're in the nsa, you want to be a csp, CPAE Certified Speaking Professional, or a Council of Peers Award for Excellent Speaker. Align yourself with someone who is there and learn from them, no matter where your field of study may be or expertise may be. So he became the one I counted on. But of course, there are those who truly love you, who want to help you. I've been a ToastMaster for under two years at the time. So I was getting advice from experienced Toastmasters who had been in the group for a long time. There was one individual in New York who had been to a World final, and there were always individuals giving me ideas and responses and what you can do. And at one point, I got an idea I thought was really great. I said, I'm going to do this. I told my main coach and he asked me, are you sure you want to do that? And David had a way of asking me questions to make me think. But I went back to him and when he and I spoke and he was very calm about this, I realized I was making a mistake. But it's easy when you have people who are qualified, who are experienced, who will advise you to say, yeah, I'll do what they do. But I thank you, Darren, for saying, you always came back to your main coach. And I Recall David Brooks? Same thing. At one point, he wrote me a letter. I wrote him a letter. And he told me he cherished this letter because it told him, david, you saw me at one point, you knew I was straying from the path you knew was best, but you also had the confidence I'd find my way back home. That's a coach right there, man. I called him the master mentor. And I always went back to what he said in the last day before my big day. My last meeting beside my family was with my main coach. Now, I know that there may be those who say, well, look, I'm not a toastmaster. What does that mean for me? Think about your business, your enterprise, whether you. What part of what group you're involved in, your association, your chamber. Who do you rely on to help you, to hone your skill, to be the best at what you do. And it's very easy when there are people who are qualified, who you might want to tap in, tap in, tap in, tap in. And I tell you, after Darren being confessed in 28 years ago, I sometimes wonder. I don't think I could have handled trying to get 8, 9, 10 different opinions on my presentation. Bearing in mind, very often those who are less qualified will tell you, if I were you, Darren, I would do it this way. I don't mean in a bad way, but they see it from your perspective. When you find the right coach, they begin to coach you based upon your personality, your style, what works best for you, and they give you permission to be yourself. And I've also encountered speakers who were, quote, unquote, testing the waters, asking everyone they know who was qualified, what their opinions were. And it led to massive confusion. I don't know what to do. And a few years ago, I did have an individual who approached me to ask me for guidance. I had a conversation and I learned, Darren, I was not the only individual who was qualified to whom they had come. And what I did was I recommended. I talked to them some more. I said, you know this particular person pretty well. Well, yeah, I had some dealing with that person before. Well, they're also well qualified. I recommend you talk to that person. Let them be your guide. I don't want to get involved in this because I may offer advice that would be counter to what they're offering you. And since you've established that relationship, I strongly recommend you work with them. It turns out that was the right relationship for them. And the result they were trying to get for their project, they received that result, they were successful, and to this day we talk and laugh about it because the idea was I refused to help them. I sent them away, but I knew I didn't want to be one of too many coaches.

Yeah, it's. It's an emotional thing. And. And here's why I believe I made that great decision of Mark, you were my coach. You were my head coach. I still asked other people for advice, but here's. Here's one key. Is that you knew my whole backstory, right? If I got advice from someone else who didn't know my whole backstory, they might say A, and you might know because of my backstory. No, B. B is the choice for this story. Here's the point you're trying to make, right?

So.

That'S. That's number one, that the main coach. Because the other people might just saw your speech or one version of it, but not know the other options that you were considering that we cut out, that maybe could go back in. And then if you have a brief conversation, a brief conversation with them, you don't have time to cover your whole backstory. Look, we're just trying to help you avoid frustration because we realize, get a coach, then people go overzealous and get as many coaches. Now they've got a new issue. So that's number one. Number two, because they don't know your whole backstory. Number two is be careful who you listen to. Because still, some people, one person that we worked with, they got advice from somebody who's known them a long time. And it really bugged me. Now, because of the relationship with this person from their original club. Long relationship, I get it. But that person, quote, unquote, wasn't really qualified. But they were a mentor of that club. Nothing wrong with that. But here's why I got adamant, because I was told. This person told me to take that out. Because it seems. I'm just going to use a different word to not give it away, but it seems cheesy or cliche. But then this contestant told me, but that's why I wrote the speech. This is what I want to say to the world. I said, there's your answer. Bring it back. I don't care who the person was or what they said. If this is the message you want for the world, now maybe we can reword it a little so it's not specifically the cliche words. But we make it. This contestantes, their. Their contestantism, whatever their name is. If it's Robert, it's the Robert ism. So it becomes uniquely theirs. However, if that's the message that you feel in your heart you want to tell the world. How dare anyone talk you out of that? You know, that's. That's wrong. So I was adamant about that because now you're taking away the whole purpose behind it anyway. And then thirdly, each coach has their own ninja skills. We've said this, but I want to remind everyone. So if you have your head coach, but you're working on, let's just say, the delivery of a character, okay? Then you bring it to me. That's my strength. But I have people coming to me asking about, you know, digging, doing a story dig, digging out the content, or how do I say this best? And I said, you know what? That's a Mark Brown's. That's Mark Brown's ninja skill. That's not mine. That. I just know my ninja skill. But every coach has their own ninja skill. It may be part of the process, part of the creation. It may be tightening it and editing it. You know, David Brooks is great at that. There's. Yeah. And wordsmithing. And Mark, that's your. You know, you and David have that in common. That's not my thing. I might be able to help you with a funnier word because my comedy background, but delivery is truly. I remember working with two of the contestants this year the day before and just watching them do it. I was like, ooh, do this and this person. I said, ooh, do that. And it definitely made an impact. But that's my thing. And it was a simple adjustment the day before. Usually we say, don't make any changes the day before, but this was something that was doable. And I asked them both, do you feel like you can do that or is that too much? Because we don't want to make too many changes at the last minute. I was very impressed with both of them, how they used these ideas. But I know my lane, and it ain't Mark Brown's lane. And that's why Mark and I work so well together. And if you go to getaspeakingcoach.com we have a package. The duo, the coaching duo package. We've had a few people take us up on that. We helped one gentleman who was TedX speech. We helped someone with their contest speech. And it's just so much more fun. When I work with Mark, I try not to even do one on one unless it's specifically they got it worked out and it's delivery. That's my lane. So make sure you find out if you're talking or Interviewing coaches, what's their lane, what's their specialty? And so if I was working with someone that Mark was the head coach. Great. Here's what I'd love you to bring back to Mark. You could have this and look up here and talk to the building, the sign on the building, through the window here. Or you could do it this way and bring that to your coach, and then together you make a decision.

You know, Darren, I like to think of it in terms of the sports world. You think of a baseball team, a football team, you got special teams, they got defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator. But there is one head coach. My sport is football or football, European football. He's called a manager. Like in baseball, he's called the manager, but he has a team of coaches. Goalkeeping coach, striker coach, defenders coach. They have a team around them, but it all goes back to the head coach. Am I opposed to having a team of coaches for speaking? Of course not. You do what serves you best. But I will echo what Darren says. Have one individual who you trust, who understands your journey, who knows your backstory, who knows. Who knows your style, who will tell you what is best for you and your style. Falling on the face, on the floor, not my style. Darren Lacroix. It worked for him. And staying down was magnificent. On the contrary, I've seen speakers, and somebody once told me they saw speakers who were trained by a very, very famous speaker in North America. I will not name that speaker. But they said, I went to an event and they had a speaker there, and I could tell right away who trained that speaker. I've seen that happen as well. And funny enough, Darren, at the Toastmasters Convention, someone approached me after, I think it was a semi final, and said, well, Mark, I bet you coach, I think I know who you. I think you coach that person and that person. And I kind of smile to myself and say, well, I know one of them, the other have not met them before. And I go, oh, I could have sworn you coached him. They thought they saw me in that person. I remember one particular individual years ago said to me, mark, I love what you do. You're a great speaker and I want to be just like you. I looked that person in the eye and said, no, you don't want to be like me. You want to be like yourself. I don't want anyone to see me in you. There may be a technique that I use that I have mastered, that you admire. You can apply, adopt and adapt for yourself. But when someone says, that's Mark Brown, that's not you know, John Doe, that would not sit well with me as a coach. Part of my responsibility is to bring out the best of you. So your style, your personality, your mannerisms, your language choice, that works for you is what the audience gets. And sadly, too many people try so hard to be like their coach to they run the risk of abandoning who they are. And here's the and you don't want to abandon who you are. And with a good head coach, so to speak, if you choose to assemble a team of coaches, a good head coach will acknowledge that, will recognize that, will see that, and they will feed that. So the best of you will come forth. And technical skills you learn from others, applied well, will simply help you to be a stronger version of yourself, become more experienced, and really master the platform. That's what you want to look for in that relationship. But to have seven people who have the same title or the same credential and to equally lean on all of them is a risk I would not recommend anyone should take.

Hmm. Two quick thoughts as we wrap this up. So, Mark, I met a lot of people in the hallways at the Toastmasters convention who are already talking about next year. And I just think we have an onslaught of people who join stage time in January and submit their speech, and then we have a lot more people who submit their speech in, like, March, as all of a sudden. What would Tom Brady do? Tom Brady would take a day off, and then the next day he would go back and start preparing or maybe a week. I don't know Tom Brady, however, I know that he would maybe take some time, but then he would be working on next season. He, like, now, now, you're not trying to quote, unquote, manipulate the judges or create that contest speech that's the winning speech. You probably have some skills, some insecurities and some confidence that you need that you need to upgrade these skills no matter what you're speaking about. And that takes time. We can help you with a speech and we can help you make some adjustments. Absolutely. But some of your skills, some of your confidence will take time. If you listen to last week's podcast, when we talked about watching Lisa Nichols, watching A True Pro, we talked about this last week. There's been a good speech and a great speech. A speaker, good speaker and a Great speaker is 100 speeches. Well, guess what? You give that contest speech or that piece of your keynote that may be used in a contest, but your bigger goal is to use it in a keynote. You give that a hundred times, it's going to be amazing. We had a lot of people, Mark, who came to us a couple weeks out and they, they decided to go with a new speech. So they didn't have that time to own it and develop it. Now, the people who are Stage time members, so proud of you, you did it. And sometimes you have that in your heart that you need to change it. And, Mark, you had that too, where you. One of them wasn't working and you abandoned it. There's nothing wrong with that. But what if you started now? What if you started now like the contest was next month? If you brought it now, I guarantee you're going to up level your skills and be in better place. And maybe you'll even get that feeling that this isn't the speech for me, I need to abandon that. But now you still get several months to find that one that you do care about. And then my second idea, Mark, this is overriding everything. The. Mark, you. The thing you and I say to people right when we start working with them, whether it's in Stage time or whether you and I are working with them, two on one, you are the CEO of your speech. You're the owner of the franchise. Nice to see if you're the CEO, you're the one who chooses how, how many coaches. But what we're saying is have that head coach that knows your backstory. Again, if you bring in a super duper expert, and they may be fully. But you do one session with them, they're not going to know your context, they're not going to know your backstory, they're not going to know all those conversations you had with your head coach. So if you get their insights from them now you bring it back to that head coach and you have that conversation with the person who's on the journey with you that you have that relationship with. So there's nothing wrong with having many coaches. The problem is if they're all in your mind at the same level. Now we have a challenge because they may, because of their perspective, they may think go left, somebody else may think go right because they're coming outside of the context, outside of that relationship. So you're the CEO and you determine how many coaches. So it's okay to have many, and that's a great thing. However, if you don't have that head coach, you're gonna get frustrated, you're gonna get confused. Mark?

Yeah. I can recall when I was competing, I had my main coach, David Brooks, but I also had a coach, two coaches who were really masters of stagecraft. In New York City, the late Robert and Randy Gedalia and I went to see them. I spent hours with them and hours with them on how to use a stage well. Again, I was very green at this, my second year competing and not very experienced. What do you want from a computer programmer, man? What can I tell you? But having them guide me through how to use the stage well, they were my early signs of Darren Lacroix, so to speak. But I understood more from what they taught me about that aspect of presenting. And as you said earlier, you may have expertise from individuals who really master different facets of the art of the craft. If you're working on a TEDx speech or a TED speech, as Darren says, don't plan to do it next week. Plan early and decide who can really help me with this area or this aspect of my presentation. You make that decision. I was blessed to have one main coach the whole time. And the last week I went and got help with working the stage. I realized I needed help in that area. Please be mindful of what you really need and who are the best resources to get that need met. There may be a temptation if you have access to several qualified individuals to ask all of them what they think because you trust them so much and they're all well qualified. But chances are you may get some conflicting ideas and then who do you decide to listen to? One who's best dressed, one who you like the most. I mean, I'm making this up, I'm being facetious, but you see where you can give yourself a problem if you don't give yourself a chance to say, look, I'm going to decide to work with one individual whom I trust, who knows me, who knows my heart, who knows my style, who knows my background, who knows my desire, who knows my goal, and let them be the guide who will help me get through it. If it's a contest to be, to be best on stage for the contest, if it's a TEDx talk or a TED talk, a keynote, a corporate event, whatever it may be, let them help you to be your best. Because I don't want anyone, none of you to have the dilemma of wondering what to do if you have too many coaches.

Darren, bring us home as you choose your coaches, if you choose multiple, which we encourage, but you don't have to, but it is your responsibility as the CEO to figure out what their ninja skill set is, what are their strengths. Mark, you and I have a client who will remain nameless, who came to us and he was very adamant about getting my help with delivery. I need your help. I want you to see my delivery. And I was cool with that because that is my strength. And now, by the way, you can't polish a bad speech. You've got to go back and have that foundation. So Mark's the foundation and the wordsmith guy, which I honor that. That's great. So I took the backseat when we were creating the foundation and the wordsmithing, and then when we moved to delivery, I kind of took the front stage, and Mark took the backseat. Mark still had some great ideas on use of stage and delivery. Absolutely. That's why it's kind of cool we work together. But let me leave you with this reiterate. You are still the CEO of your speech. Mark, when you and I were working together, I had my tagline on my Subway joke that I turned Subway into a nonprofit organization. And my other coach, David McElhaney, said, you know what? Drop that. Cut that. It's not funny. And I just thought about it, and I was like, I had to be true to me. I'm like, no, I've done that before. It works. I want that tagline, and it's part of me. And I've been telling that joke for so long, I kind of knew it was gonna come out even if I cut it, because I already have it ingrained in me. And Dave came over to me after the speech, and he said, good job sticking to it. That worked. So even when we were working with some of our coaching clients, and they, you know, I would push back in a couple areas, and they said, no, this is what I feel is best. I said, then that's what you should go for. I also, Mark, honestly, I had to catch myself from being that coach that says, no, this is how you have to do it. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. It's not my speech. Yes, you can have too many coaches, but only if you don't have that hierarchy and you don't have that head coach that knows more of your backstory, more of your context. Because, Mark, I've seen people, like, hire this person and this world champion, this world champion, this world champion again, nothing wrong with that. But if they're all at the same level, you're creating confusion and frustration that you don't need just because you have many world champions helping you. It comes back to, you are the CEO. So that being said, if you want to look at even on our coaching page, get a speaking coach dot com. You'll see. Because I know and I believe in this, you'll see each of our coaches there, but you'll see their strength. I wanted to make sure Mike Davis, his strength is working with TedX. He's a TedX coach. It's part of what he does. I could help you, but Mike does that all the time. We just added Chris McGuire. We did the humor boot camp with him. Kevin Burke, who used to do the humor boot camp, he was the greatest coach I saw with delivery like that's my strength. But he's got it at a whole different level because he has more background in the area, more stage time in that area than I do. Chris McGuire, he's got that process. He's a comedy writer, writes at the top level for late night tv. He's got the process down. So when he taught that at the humor boot camp, people were leaving with the process process and the writing part of it. So I've added him to the coaching page. If you want somebody to punch up your speech and literally write jokes for you and have a conversation with you. So I've added him to that page. So if you're looking for a Coach, go to getaspeakingcoach.com Our whole faculty is there and right at the top you'll see a podcast embedded how to find the right one for you. So can you have too many coaches? Yes, but only if they're all at the same level. Find a head coach. Figure out that head coach if you're going to have multiples and then trust them. And if that's not working, find a new head coach.

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