Ep. 244 ADVICE YOU DON’T WANT TO HEAR

Yes. Heavy sigh. Advice you don't want to hear. Sometimes that truth can be overwhelming. That truth can wake you up. That come to Jesus advice and truth that we don't want to hear yet we need to hear. Why? Because it is the truth. So I have heard this advice from so many folks, friends, mentors, NSA mentors. And when I look back at your career, Mark, my career, Ed's career, Ford Sakes career, Craig Valentine's career, I can see that there's something in common. There's a reason that we're still out there, still relevant, still helping people today when Mark I know in my old days of stand up comedy, some of the guys I was working with have gone to stardom. Dane Cook, super megastar. And these are guys I started out with, but many more of them never made it. Many more of them. In my old NSA chapter back in NSA New England, there's a lot of emerging speakers who wanted the dream, believed in the dream, but didn't understand this one bit of advice that we don't want to hear.

Let's hear it now.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? AHAs. Let's dive right in.

Mark. It's about to get real.

Some, some.

Okay, some tough love. And if you're listening to this podcast because a mentor sent it to you, understand that we heard this too. We had to live this too. And that's one of the reasons we're doing this episode. You may not want to hear it. I didn't want to hear it. However, it's the reason I get to do this for a living. Anything else to set it up? Mark?

Well, look, sometimes we have the dream and dreams are wonderful. We pursue the dream and the work has to get put in. I'll do. I'll say this as a preface, Darren. Over the past several years I have met individuals who have the dream of being world class speakers. And for and for many, the vehicle they choose is the Toastmasters International Speech Contest. And in their minds, if I can just win that contest, it'll be my instant ticket to stardom. Making good money. The world would want to hear from me. And when I advise them, they don't want to hear it. I've had individuals who have sent me emails and they have signed the email, the equivalent of, I am John Smith, the 2025 world champion of public speaking. Because they believe, I don't mean to mock anybody, but they believe they can speak it into existence. I will be champion next year. And you and I have encountered individuals who felt that way, who believe that way, who came to us for coaching and eventually fell by the wayside because their mindset says, I believe it, I'm going to claim it. And we told him what was going to be involved and they didn't want to hear a kind of advice. So as Darren says, we're going to be honest, we're going to be brutal at times, but having spent 30 years in the business, trust us, sometimes you're going to get advice that's good for you that you don't want to hear. So open your ears, tune in, listen up.

And if you're a veteran, you probably know this and you may have even given this advice. So thank you.

Yes.

And you could, if you're an emerging presenter, you can look at this as the test. How you receive this advice is the test. And Mark, going back to what you're saying about Toastmasters, and I just cringe and look, I'm a fan of vision boards. I have a vision board up, I'm fine. But when you start putting in your signature line, I'm going to be next year's World champion. Guess what? Every world champion now doesn't want to help you because you're in it for you. And it's okay to have that internal dream, but when you start projecting that to the world, that's ego. There's a fine line between visualization to yourself and then telling people, this is what you're going to do. And you're almost setting yourself up for disaster. Now, Mark, here's what I never hear. I never hear someone who's in the speech contest who says, I'm looking for feedback. I want to be a world class speaker. What they say is, I want to create a world class speaker. Seven minute speech. I want to create that speech that wows the audience. Well, you have to become the person who can deliver that because now I love all of our world champion friends and brothers and sisters. This is not a dig on anyone specific at all. However, I could picture somebody creating that seven minute speech and then they get invited for Toastmasters for free to come give a keynote, but they haven't learned yet how to train. They might have Gone through the journey, but they don't know how to assimilate that and distill that down. As to wisdom, people can apply, they haven't learned how to do that. So now they give a keynote at a conference for free to 300 people. And everyone's like, well, that was all right, well, you're not going to get rehired from that. Word is going to travel quickly from leaders to leaders, because guess what? The district top three get together a couple times in different places in the world, and they talk. Well, guess what one of their ideas is. Who did you have come in for the national convention? Did it? How were they? Meh is not the word you want after your name. And for those of you who are, let's say, trainers or professional speakers, coaches, authors, and you don't really care about toastmasters, okay, this applies to you. We're just using this because Mark and I get this a lot. And I don't know where this exact advice originated because I've heard it from several NSA mentors, the principal, I've heard before. So I want to honor that. We didn't come up with this idea, and we've heard it by many. But here's the thing. Picture this. You get to sit down with your mentor, the guy, the rock star that you just saw speak, you ran him into in the hallway, or her in the hallway. You offer them to buy him a cup of coffee. They're in a generous mood. They sit down, they talk to you, and they say, and you ask them, hey, I. I want to do what you do. What do I need to do? How do I become a professional speaker? The mentor takes a sip of coffee, slowly leans in and says, go give 100 speeches and then come back and we'll talk. But. But what do I do? Go give a hundred speeches and then come back and we'll talk. But how do I find it stop? You want to know the process? The process is get out there and speak a hundred times. You have to, quote, unquote, get your sea legs in the sailing world, you gotta get your sea legs to be able to be out on the sea and be able to handle the waves where it's no big deal. Deal. And you don't throw up over the side of the boat. Well, in speaking, you might not throw up over the side of the boat, but you will have doubt, and you will not think you can do it if you don't have the right support system. If you don't build your belief. What they're saying the advice they're giving is to go find a way. Well, how do I find speeches? Go find a way. Ask people. Go to Toastmasters. Ask at ToastMasters. Go to NSA, the National Speakers association, or in other countries, PSA, whatever they might call it in the global federation in your area. But start asking, start reaching. Like you got to get on stage. And Mark, I think of you. How many schools did you do before you became a, let's say, high paid speaker? You worked for a company, right? And they sent you out to speak to schools?

Yes, even before that, I was working at Reader's Digest. You know, I had won this Toastmasters contest, but I wanted to get speaking, what I would do at lunchtime. We were in a town, a place called Chappaqua, Presentville, N.Y. at lunchtime. I had booked parks at the local iguanas, at the Rotary, at the Lions. I was doing free rubber chicken, learn speeches or breakfast speeches for free at service organizations. And Darren mentioned Toastmasters, do not discount giving a talk to the Lions, Kiwanis, the Rotary. I went to the JC's Junior Chamber of Commerce in Connecticut, gave a free speech for them, for the young people. But I had to, as Darren says, get my sea legs. And there's something else I know, I realize that you're saying, okay, Mark, you did the youth programs. I did several of those to get my sea legs. And you may be thinking, wait, a hundred speeches, I gotta start there. It starts even before that. I'm gonna rewind Darren's mind. When he wanted to become funnier and become better, you had to endure the daunting task of reading a book. For those who are new to you and your experience there, could you please share about the book test real quick? When you wanted to move ahead and you got advice you didn't understand, explain the book test, please.

Well, when I get a lot of people, especially in Toastmasters, early on after I won a lot of people, I want to be funnier because they know my story of how I started in stand up. And so I have a test. So think about the mentor that I just mentioned you had coffee with. They said, go do a hundred speeches and then come back. How many people do you think actually come back and find that person and ask them for step two? I'm guessing maybe one out of a hundred, maybe five out of 100, but I'm guessing closer to one out of 100. I don't know the number. The number doesn't matter. It's small. But now that person, that mentor, could give step two, but now they're dealing with five people instead of 100. Because I don't know about you, Mark. Almost everywhere I present, whether it's a corporation, association, company, there's always somebody in the audience who wants to be a speaker. Almost always. And so, which is cool, they come to me because they see I'm doing what they want to do. So we give them that advice. But what we're trying to do is see if they're serious. If you can't pass level one and figure it out, you're never going to figure out the other challenges. So I developed my get the book test. So this is my version of go give 100 speeches. They want to be funnier. Now the questions. I use this when the question is, I want to be funnier, what do I need to do? I tell them the same advice because they heard my story. I of how I asked Chris McGuire for advice and he said, go get the book, the Judy Carter book. So I tell them, you gotta go get the book. Stand up comedy the book, read it and then call me. If they call me and they have not purchased the book and they have not read the book. Cause I test them on it. Well, the key thing is I don't have to test too many people because very few come back to me because they realize it's going to be work. And if you're not going to go buy a $12 book on Amazon, you are never going to put up with the tough things.

Oh.

So what I'm doing is I'm taking 100 people and I'm bringing it down to 10. So it's the get the book test. And there's one person, Mark, that you and I know that passed the get the book test. It was Michael Davis.

Yes.

So he went and got the book, came back to me, and now he's one of our coaches in stage time. Understand where that came from. He took the mindset of Darren, said, go get this book. I'm going to go get this book. I'm going to read it, I'm going to do the exercises, and then I'll come back and reengage. I know, Mark. When I got the opportunity to ask Alan Weiss questions, Alan Weiss, csp, CPAE hall of fame, speaker, legend, consultant to consultants. And he was in my chapter back in the day, I would literally, I was so intimidated by him. I would take a page, a list of questions and force myself to ask him because I was so intimidated by him. But here's the key. If he gave me something to do, I Would not dare, dare ask him for more advice until I finish the step that he gave me already. And that's what we're saying here. Go do a hundred. Well, how? Figure it out. Get on YouTube, ask people, find a way. Like Mark said, Rotary Club, Kiwanis Club, start a spreadsheet. If you're a numbers geek like me, get to 100. Because when you come back, you've shown us that you have a lot of what it takes, that you'll figure it out. So now you've just separated yourself from most people because why? A mentor doesn't want to waste their time. So how do they figure out who's actually going to do it? You give them step one and they come back and prove that they've accomplished step one. So Mark, going back to how many schools did you speak at back in the day?

Oh, it was going full time. I was giving my talk at least 150 times a year, maybe more. I'll be doing two, three schools a day, four days a week for 12 weeks in a row. I mean it was just going, going, going. And I had to, when I first began starting, I taken my seven minute toastmaster speech and built it into a 45 minute youth keynote. I really had to put the miles in, put the time time in, put the effort in, find more stories, go through all entire process of building a program that would be valuable and worthwhile for this particular youth audience to hear. And you know, I meet people who will say, man, I, I, I could do that. Yeah, but you don't know the backstory with the work that was done. I mean people who, and again, I'm not picking on Toastmasters. Darren and I are both Toastmasters. I made dues, paying hard, carrying, active member of making Toastmasters club. You can call anybody and ask him. I'm not knocking Toastmasters. But unfortunately many of them see the trophy that Darren has won and I have won and they believe that is an instant ticket. Here's Darren's picture, a trophy in the background. Those who are watching on video, instant ticket to stardom and fame. Not so you have to pay your dues. You've got to put in the work, you've got to attend meetings yourself. You got to be, you got to be learning as well. And many people don't want to hear you got to put the miles in. And it was a lot of speeches, a lot of talks. I can't tell you how many I've done, Darren.

So Mark, just taken, you said two to three a day. I said Two a day, five days a week. And let's just say you're on the road 40 weeks a year. That's only 400. That's not even, that's not even 1,000, but that's 400. Now, Mark had a job where he got a salary to go out and do that. But there's reasons why. But that was setting him up for what he gets to do today. Ed Tate, Craig Valentine, Ford Sakes. Our friend Kathy Kalesha, they do training. At the beginning of their careers, they all worked for public seminar companies like Career Track, Skillpath. They were paid.

Fred Pryor.

Yeah, Fred Pryor. They were paid to go deliver someone else's content. And they would be in one city, do an all day seminar, drive to another city, do an all day seminar, drive to another city, do an all day seminar, drive to another city. Like four, I think a week. I don't know if you remember the number, but I want to say four a week. And they would be on one week off. But that's a lot of stage time. That's some serious sea legs. Understanding how to communicate, how to connect. And what we're saying by the, the first 100 is you will get some breakthroughs, you will learn some lessons that I could never teach you, that you need to discover about you. And one of them is that persistence. One of them is that willingness to ask and be rejected and ask again and be rejected and ask again. But now you get in front of that audience. Yeah. Just because somebody's standing up there in front of an audience doesn't mean they're engaging or captivating. And it might just mean they're polite.

That's very good.

You're horrible. But they're polite. I, that was me early on. And Mark, even early on, I was always animated, but it was more like a train wreck. It's like people would be like, being honest. What is he saying? And until I met.

What is he on, I had a.

Few good stories, but until I met you, Mark, I didn't really get it. Now, all the people we mentioned, Ed Craig, Cathy Ford, they got their sea legs training other people's content, but they still got their sea legs. So now when they were ready to deliver their own content, they were light years ahead of where they were when they started. Now they have to pass a test. They have to be good enough that this company would hire them. But that company does the marketing and fills the room for them. But I will warn you that those aren't the most friendliest audiences. Some of Them are captive audience because their boss sent them. That's not somebody leaning in eager to hear from you and your story. So that's different. But you have to figure it out in front of the tough rooms to get the privilege of the great easy fun rooms. My sea legs was stand up comedy. Like this may sound egotistical, but I don't think there's any better foundation than stand up comedy.

I've done it yet.

When you're in a bar saying, make me laugh, little bald boy. But it was, but it was the same thing. I had to prove myself in the B rooms, in the back of the bowling alley, in the Chinese restaurant function room with standing on a couple of milk crates and a piece of plywood as a stage. But that was cool. I got stage time. And I know if you're listening, you've heard me before. Any day that you don't get on stage is a day that you don't grow. Well, if you do 100 speeches, the advice we originally started about you're going to grow, you will grow. And guess what? You may get the beautiful gift of realizing this isn't for you. And that's okay. Now you can find the dream that is right for you. So that's a great beautiful thing. Now you can let go of that dream or you could realize, this is what I'm supposed to do, this is where I'm supposed to be. But you're going to learn some lessons along those first hundred speeches that will carry you for the rest of your career and give you confidence.

You know, that is so true. Darren, you mentioned some of the difficult seasons. Here's one that I would not normally talk about, but it came to mind because I've heard of people who were unwilling to make changes. A few years ago, the world stopped because of the pandemic and many of us had to switch our business models and many of us became hybrid and virtual presenters. But there are individuals whose businesses disappeared because they were unwilling to do the hard thing and adapt to the virtual speaking world. I'm sure you know of some speakers who, whose businesses die because of it. I don't want to do virtual. It's not me. I want to be on stage live. Well, nobody's hiring you on stage live, but there are those who will pay you to deliver your material virtually and that's not for me. I'll find a way. And unfortunately, some people chose to fight against what was happening and as a result, their business changed forever. Conversely, there were those who said, oh, virtual, I can do that, that's great. And they became very successful because they were willing to do the unconventional, do the difficult, do the unusual, do the revolutionary. Because for many of us that was not where we were. Thankfully, Darren, Ed Tate and I, Ed Tate, csp, also world champion. We've done workshops on mastering virtual presentations. We've been doing virtual since Skype was the way to go. Right? But there are those who were unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape. And our advice to you is there are times we will all have to adjust, we'll all have to make changes. If we need to be successful, we have to be flexible. Some people don't want to hear it. That's the truth. But trust me, we are living that right now.

So the tough truth advice you don't want to hear again, if you're emerging presenter, do that hundred. Do that hundred.

Mark, one more thought to Darren. We have individuals who are experienced experts and I want to clarify, when we say expert, we mean you know your material, you are an expert in your field. But that does not mean you have to assume because I have expertise, I can then go on a stage for 55 minutes and share with the world and be effective on stage. Advice some people don't want to hear. Get a coach to help you. You may have the knowledge, but you don't have the experience or the expertise. When I first got started, I remember the going joke back in the 90s was, oh, Mark you brand new at this. You're going to get your triple X rating. Yeah, triple X rating, exposure, experience and expertise. What was missing was I did, I wasn't emphasizing getting help from the expert themselves. I recommend you get a quote, someone who understands the art, the skill of speaking and the business of speaking. Align yourselves with people who can help you. But hey, I make good money. I'm highly respected in my field. I'm the best at what I do. Yes, you know it, but you may not be able to impart it. It's tough for some people to hear that in Darren Lacroix words. It's ego. Let it go. Get over yourself. It's not about you. How am I doing, Darren? Okay, but seriously, folks, get support and help from someone who can help you take what you have and make it even better and presentable because that's one way for you to become unforgettable. Some people don't want to hear it, but trust us, we've been down that road and it can make a significant difference. Guess what? Darren and I have individuals we go to for help which is a frip. I go to Willy Jolly, hall of Fame speaker. There are individuals I go to to get help as well. For Ford's sake, Sam Richter, these people we can lean on and can help us and guide us. Hall of Famers, we too need help. Take my advice, you don't want to hear it, but trust me, you need to get coached.

Yeah. And if you want to get to that next level, if you're listening to us now, which you are, I think Mark and I are doing unforgettable presentations next week. It's a three day workshop, virtual. And if you want to get more stages, if you want to have more impact, we're going to walk you through our seven step process on how to create an unforgettable presentation. The key to getting booked or rebooked is that you do good while you're up there. So yes, we're talking about get up there, get up there, get up there. But we can help you do better when you get up there if you walk through our seven step process with us. I think we have one VIP spot open for that. As Mark's saying, get expert advice. Look, if you have a budget, go to getaspeakingcoach.com depending on where you are. We lay out each of our different coaches and what their specialty is. What their specialty is. Please, please, please check that out. If you don't have a budget where you could afford coaching, no worries. That's one of the reasons I created stagetime University. Go to stagetime University, click on memberships, look at Presentation Mastery and check it out. It's an affordable way to get some feedback to go through our program step by step. So those are options if you know a coach that you want to go for. Uh, I've heard horror stories of others. Uh, yeah, that's another subject, another call, another podcast. But hey, if you want to deal, join us for unforgettable presentations, use the discount code event25. Event25 and you get 25% off. And would love to work with you and be a part of it. It's a small group. We work with you, you get feedback, we walk you through every step. If not, go to get a coach.com getaspeakingcoach.com or check out Stagetime University. If you don't have the budget for one on one coaching. But either way, get some help or you'll never make it through those hundred.

Hmm.

If a mentor passed this on to you, please thank them. Please thank them because they truly do want to help you. But Mark I have friends who are great skiers and some advice I got back on when I was trying to learn how to ski. They sent me to ski school. I'm like, I don't want to go to ski school. Like, I just want to ski. Well, same idea. Get some advice. Because the instructors know how to help people who are just getting started. They know how to help people who are intermediate. They're going to give them different advice because they've already done some. They ain't going to know how to help experts and make them even better. Or let's see, say experienced speakers and make them even better experienced skiers. Same idea, same metaphor. But here's what I remember. You've got to pay the mountain. You can pay to get instruction which will get you to comfortable, confident, faster. Absolutely. If you're going to try and figure it out on your own, you've got to pay the mountain. You will feel it the next day. It will be painful, physically painful, but also, not only the pain, but it's going to hurt your confidence. When you do it right, you're going to get more build more belief more quickly. So, Mark Brown, next week, I don't know what we're going to talk about because right now while you're listening to this, I'm in Spain. So we'll figure out next week. Next week, Mark Brown.

Hasta la vista, baby.

Make sure you subscribe to our show.

Remember to subscribe because if you miss a week, you miss a lot.

If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out Stage Time University where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker and everyone is talking about, go to stagetimeuniversity. Com. Join us next week if you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.