Ep. 26 STAGE-OLOGY How to Use the Stage with Maximum Impact

Hey there, Mark. You know, one of my frustrations, one of my pet peeves when I see presenters use the stage is that they are the caged lion. They have passion, they have enthusiasm, but they're going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth to use this side of stage and the center stage and then this side of the stage and the center stage. It's like there's three places on the stage and that's it. And they're trying to even it out. You know, the old toastmaster thing where, you know, well, you over here more than you over here.

What?

Mark, what's your thoughts on the use of stage or misuse of stage?

Well, you know what's weird? This may sound like a bad thing, Darren, but there's also an element that has to do with the TED dot. And I want to raise that issue today as we look at how you move on stage with purpose.

All right, let's do this.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. Ahas. Let's dive right in.

All right, Mark Brown. Mark, this. Oh, you know, this drives me crazy.

Yes, I know.

It's just like if you're not doing it on purpose, you're confusing the audience. And our job is to connect our message to our audience and you of stage, like, if you do it poorly, you're just hurting your message. You're diluting your message. And it's just. We get confused, you know? Mark, one of my analogies, when you read a book, when you're done with chapter one, you turn the page.

Yes.

And there's a big number two on the next page. And it's super clear that we're done with one thought or one idea. We're now transitioning to another, which is great in a book. And it's super clear. How do we do that? Mark Brown, on the stage, we can.

Actually use parts of the stage to indicate different scenes, different chapters and different stories, even different points you want to make. Because when you create a scene at one particular point on the platform and the audience sees that scene playing out there, and you use a transitional phrase to tell the audience, I'm going to transition now. To a new point, and you move to a different place on stage, the audience goes with you. Different stories being told, different points being made, and the transition gets you to a different place. And the audience now associates that particular place or spot with a point you've made. A new story, a new concept, a new idea. And it makes learning easier because we associate that spot with that point and that message. As a matter of fact, one of our fellow world champions, I think it was Craig Valentine who mentioned, or was it you who said, use a transitional phrase. Because a traditional phrase means a transition on stage. And when the audience can follow you through that train of thought and see you transition verbally and then see it physically, it just aids in the learning process to gather, to glean, and to retain the points you want to make.

Yeah, that was actually mine, Craig. I've learned rhyming and phrases from him, but that one actually was mine. And Mark Brown, what do you mean by a transition phrase? Explain that. Give me an example.

Well, a tradition phrase gets you from one point, one thought, one concept, one idea to the next. And they don't often have to be really, really big, bold, long, 15 word phrases. They can vary in length. And sometimes that phrase could be the theme or the premise of your speech, a point you want to keep saying. I gave a speech, oh, my goodness, 25 years ago, and I talked about the power of our lives. The idea was my living shall not be in vain. And I wanted to share with the audience that my living, my life is not being vain. If I can help somebody when I pass along, if I can cheer somebody up with a word or song, or if I can show somebody they're traveling wrong, it came from a song by that name. What I did was I made the first point. If I can really help people every single day, then it's a good thing. And I'd say, my living will not be in vain if I can cheer somebody with a word or song. I made the point, told a story of going to a nursing home and seeing people say thank you and all of that. I said, that was a really good feeling. And I'm convinced that my living will not be in vain if I can also show somebody they're traveling wrong. And I use that line, my living will not be in vain if, as a means of transition, to change the idea, change the thought, and we can physically move on stage and paint a different picture and show a different scene. So the transition phrase gives you the room, the freedom to change or to transition to a new thought, new Idea, new premise, new point in a seamless way and maintain the flow of thought, continuity and structure of your presentation. Is that clear enough?

Very eloquent, very unlike me. Very eloquent, but very super clear. Like we need that phrase that tells us when to move and clearly indicates to the audience, oh, they're moving to another point. They're flipping the page from chapter one to chapter two. And Mark and I have seen so many people just kill their message. Strong message, their passion and a great story. And what like, it's just so confusing. If you're not using the stage with purpose, simply said you're diluting your message. You're diluting the power of what you're trying to say. So an example of transition phrase while you transition on stage. In my speech, if you go back to episode three or four when we break it down, but I use the phrase Dr. Goddard had a ridiculous idea. So to me that told me, okay, here I move when I say these words and then I'm about to tell a story from Dr. Goddard, but I use the phrase to physically transition. Now I'm in a spot. Boom, bam. Now here I tell that story without moving clearly in that spot. When I was done with the Dr. Goddard story, I then paralleled my story, but I used a parallel transition phrase that said I remember when I had my ridiculous idea. So I'm walking back the other way on stage while I'm saying that phrase. Most people never take the time or don't understand the reason. And the reason is for clarity. Now that is a little maybe higher level writing. If you're a corporate presenter and you do a different presentation all the time. Like look, your slides can also help you know, when you've got a transition. So we could actually have a transition slide while you transitions on stage while you have a transition phrase. And it could be something as simple as and my next point is. Or something like, so if you want to be a world class speaker, the second idea you must embrace is so we're in one spot, we make our point, we prove our evidence. Now we use this phrase to move to another spot on the stage.

And I'm glad you mentioned slide because one of my catchphrases is let your slide be your guide. Let your slide be your guide. Don't overuse them and fill them text. But the slide can guide you. I'm going to go to my next place. And just a little aside here, Darren, for those of us who use slides, PowerPoint and Keynote and so on, use presenter mode where you can See what slide is coming next, and you can strategically insert transitional slides into your deck that will help you to make those smooth transitions. And you will use your stage well in accordance to what your slides tell you. And that's only a little bonus extra point on that. But I agree with you, Darren. Very often you'll see speakers who aimlessly wander around stage because they're not sure where to anchor themselves. And the idea of using the stage as a means to reinforce the power of the message is not something that everybody fully understands. And conversely, there are those people who may speak in a small area quite often, and all of a sudden they get. They get the Toastmasters, for example, and they get into the contest, they've gone through their club, area, division, district, and they've had a nice, decent sized small stage, and they get to the Toastmasters semifinals, and they get this huge stage. And in their minds, oh, my goodness, I have to use every inch of that stage from extreme left to extreme right, and then spend time in the middle. If I don't use the whole stage, they won't think I'm using the stage well.

And after jogging to the other side.

Using every inch, every single time, going back and forth to make sure I get way over there and then way over there. I think of the old Sesame street thing with Grover when he was telling us what near and far is. He had to go all the way back and say, far back there. I am Grover, and this is near. Why do we do this to ourselves? That in itself is a distraction, wouldn't you agree?

Yeah. They're trying to use the whole stage rather than using it with purpose. So they're jogging from one part to the other. And the problem is they're diluting some of their power lines. They're diluting some of those emotional moments where we might be connecting because they're trying to get to the other part of the stage. Yeah, so, so many people think there's just three places on the stage. There's left, right, and center. And then they try and maybe mix it up. And the other problem is they then become the cage lion, and they're in the middle of a point and they're transitioning without taking the structure of their speech and almost choreographing or applying it to the stage. So there's these different ways that we need to look. Now, if you go back to the theater world, so you have this visual, if you're not watching the YouTube version of this podcast, downstage is like right in front of the audience and Right before the stage. So the front of the stage is called downstage. Upstage is the back, near the curtain. House right is if you're sitting in the house seats, you look the right of the stage. Stage left is, if we're looking from the presenter's point of view, that stage left and house right are the same. So the speaker's left, the house is right. And then, of course, stage right is the actor or the keynote speakers. Right side of the stage and house left. So if you're following along, upstage is like the back of the stage, Downstage is the front of the stage, which seems kind of backwards, but we didn't make up the terms. We're just teaching. So we also need to look at the stage. You know, we talked about the wonders, the people who just are doing now. They might be passionate, they might be enthusiastic, but there's no true purpose to where they place their stories, their stage, their points. The other way that we like to start, at least help explaining to people, is that we look at the stage sometimes as a timeline. So one way to strategically use the stage is a timeline. And this can get a little tricky because sometimes, Mark, we got to think like an aerobics instructor. So if the audience is watching you from their perspective, we want to move to the audience's right. If we're going to the future, we're telling a story for the future. So let's take you to 10 years from now. So that could be a transition line as we transition to a space on the stage, but we want to move from the audience perspective to the right. Now that's our left. And that's why we have to think of us an aerobics instructor. And then if we want to take people back to our youth, let me, when I was six years old, go with me back now till I was six years old. I'm playing in the sandbox. Now we want to go to the audience's left, because in the United States, in Europe, the way we read is left to right. So to us, it's logical if we go back in time where the speaker goes to the left.

Correct.

Instead of to the right. Now, that's a little tougher to grasp listening to an audio podcast. If you're looking at the video on YouTube, then we've got a display up so you can watch it. Congratulations. But we can think of when we're moving to different stories or different purposes as a timeline.

Right.

Other way is. Other thing to consider is the depth of the stage, which most people don't use that's right.

So many speakers don't realize you can go back straight back or back at angles. And you can do so much with that space on the stage to help tell the stories. So, yeah, that's one key point, Darren. I found many presenters just don't really think about because all we've been taught, most of it been taught, come forward, get really close, step forward, in the middle, own center stage. Your right is audience left, past your left, audience right, future timeline. That's great. But we forget that the depth of the stage can actually show mood, it can show emotion, it can show parts of our history. There's so much you can do with the depth of the stage. And I'm so glad that you raised.

That point in one of my stories. When I'm telling this story about being so nervous at my first keynote conference where I'm doing a breakout session with my friend Gary and he's nervous and I'm nervous and I'm standing in the back corner and waiting my turn. And then as I'm all self absorbed, Gary freezes and I have to come up and take his place. But I use the back of the stage as showing me in fear away from the audience. It's part of the character. The actual placement on the stage is helping me to tell the story. And as I move forward to help Gary, I actually almost grow in stature because I'm showing, oh man, this isn't about me. The audience has to leave with something. And so I almost gain confidence as my mind ship, mindset shifts. So as I'm moving forward, I'm actually coming forward in authority and gaining confidence. So as I'm moving, I'm gaining confidence, but it also should boldness as I move quickly towards the front, as I gain speed. Mark your thoughts.

That's interesting because I gave a keynote in Marseille, France in the spring of 2019, and I was telling the story of what it was like for me being a young Jamaican. You know, I was 18 years old, I came to America working in a bank. And I have a very. I had a very strong Jamaican accent at the time, which I can still pull out if you want me to. One of these days I can do it working in the bank in New York, in the Bronx. New York, The Bronx. I kept hearing, what did you say? Huh? Beat yourself. What? And I became so self conscious and so self aware that what happened was my voice would actually begin to trail off when I was talking to customers and they'd say, what did you say? And I'd feel even worse. So my confidence was slipping very early in my banking career. And to show the audience what that was like there in Marseille, I began to walk backwards at an angle into the corner at the rear of the platform to show what it was like as my voice began to trail off and I began to lose my confidence. So my depiction was the exact opposite of yours. And without knowing that we each did that, we're both showing similar examples. Yours one was growing in confidence. In mine, I was regressing in lack of confidence. But using the angle and the depth of the state was a very powerful visual because they commented on it. When I was done, somebody said, yeah, I love the way you did that. You showed us how you kind of got shy, you shied away, you began to shrink away into the corner. You got quiet. It was a powerful visual to support the verbal.

Yeah, I also, in my championship speech, Ouch. I used a lot of energy back and forth when I was talking about excuses. So I did this dramatic energy forward and backwards, showing a lot of energy, but zero progress, because I had set the stage that moving in one direction was actually making progress. And yet here I was going back and forth towards the audience and away towards and away towards and away towards and away. And then I said, and I never took very dramatically that first step. And so it's a dramatic moment. And then I take one small step for Darren, one huge step for mankind.

For speakers around the world. Right. One huge step for speakers worldwide. I love that.

There's another example, Mark, that I learned from Willie Jones when I was talking to him in doing some research with other world champions, he had told me that he realized everyone started in the center. They would walk to the center of the stage, shake the contest master's hand, or if you're at a convention or conference, shake the introducer's hand. And then they start right there. And in an effort to try and differentiate yourself, what he told me he did is he said, I noticed everyone started right there. And so he stepped forward before he said a word and said, hey, thought you might want to take a look at me. And it was just beautiful, bold. And it wasn't the same as everybody else. So using the stage on purpose also gives you a way to separate yourself from every other speaker, especially, like, right at the start of your speech. Like, wow.

See, that was Willie Jones in 1997, I think, world champion of public speaking, who came right to the front stage. I'm going to come right here. I want you to take a good look at this guy, I'm going to turn 50. I turned 50 last year and he made a big deal of it, but he was different and he used the stage in a powerful way. Yeah, pretty cool.

And I think what helped me too, because I'm not good at memorizing as we teach internalizing. My idea came from putting little anchors, if you will. Each story would be in a different spot, which initially was to help me internalize it or memorize it. I had no idea how powerful it become as a point of using the stage to help tell my story. So I had a line, 238,799 and a half miles. That was one story about Dr. Goddard, by the way, Mark, if you ever watch the video, this was before I learned the left to right thing. And I did the headline like I was reading it, which was backwards to the audience. So that was pre wisdom, if you will. I had a story where this woman covered my mouth with and it was like the hand gesture story. And then vni valuable negative information. So I used and literally used each little place as, here's where I'm going to tell this story. Here's where I'm going to tell this story. And so as I rehearsed it and went over and over again, it helped me anchor in my mind, this story is here, Mark.

Yeah, and it's great that the intention was to remember and internalize a message, but what you're actually doing was using these anchor points to tell these stories and again, make the stories memorable in the minds of the audience because of where they take place on the stage. You and I have both seen cases where people would have an idea of, okay, I'm going to use a really cool prop. And they have a prop. It's a hospital scene somewhere on stage. And then in two minutes they're having a picnic in the same exact spot. And you're going, no, no, no, no. You're having a picnic on somebody's hospital bed. Don't do that. And I've seen you get a little concerned about that because you have to realize if we use the stage strategically, deliberately and purposefully, it really helps us to tell our stories and help our audiences to remember our messages.

Another way to use the story or the stage to tell your story is if you follow the Patricia Fripp speech model, the one that Mark and I teach with her permission, of course. But let's say you're going to make three points. You could actually divide the stage into those three points. So you have the left side of the stage, let's just say, is point of wisdom 1. The center of the stage is point of wisdom 2. The right side of the stage is point of wisdom 3. Which means you could start in the center right up front, and then you could say, okay, so if you want to be a world class presenter, first thing you need to understand and own is. And then you move over to that portion of the stage, you give all your evidence, all your different stories, all your different examples from there and then you could transition. The second thing you need to own or be aware of is you need a coach or whatever that second point might be. You give all your evidence from the center of the stage and then you say, and finally thirdly, you need to crave feedback. Let's say you move over to there, deliver that, all of that evidence, and then when you're done, you do your review. And here's the cool part, Mark, once you anchor that part of the stage, you could actually be on the right side of the stage and point way over to the left side of the stage and say, point of wisdom one, you need this point of wisdom two, remember this. And then point of wisdom three, and then you point right to where you are. And that could be a way that you organize your speech.

Yeah. Because you know, if that's done well by simply pointing to that place on the stage, what's the recall in the audience's mind? They recall that first point of wisdom. They recall the story, the anecdote, the stats, the supporting evidence you gave for that particular point. And when you indicate a place on the stage that has been used, well to create a scene in the minds of the audience by simply indicating it, their recall says, yep, that's where he said crave feedback. Boom. And it's a wonderful tool for the audience to collect and recollect and recall what you've taught them.

Thank you, Mark. And you could obviously, number two, you could divide the stage in half. There could be negative, limited, old way of thinking over there. And then on this side, this is positive, happy, abundant, the new way of thinking. And then you could be using examples back and forth. So there's different ways to use the stage, Mark. And I just want to get that point across that be strategic if you want to be unforgettable. Don't underestimate the power, good or bad, of using the stage with purpose.

Yeah, that last point about, you know, you can show two different sections. One of the techniques we have is the then, now and the how. Right then it was like this. Now it's like this. How did I get there? And sometimes simply having the then in one part of the stage and the now. If you're part of the stage, how the lessons you teach, the principles, the ideas, the tips, the tools, techniques, they receive them. But you refer back to then and again you just point to then and they know. Yeah, that was the old. That was when before you gained the knowledge or the expertise or had the experience. And the now is over here. And it's another way just to connect the thought and the words in a visual sense for the audience to comprehend, understand, receive, and then hopefully apply what we teach them.

And I think one more crucial idea, Mark, you know, it's my favorite, what I'm known for is what I sometimes call the burger concept. In n out burger. But what I most commonly talk about this is the hologram. The idea of there's a hologram. When you tell a story, there becomes a hologram in the R. Is it hologram, Mark?

Hologram is fine.

Hologram.

You can ask Mike Rayburn.

Hologram, where a character speaks. So you and I, Mark, next week we'll break down a story in the different elements so people can see all that goes into a story and the power of just a tiny little mini story. But we'll break that down next week. But this is in the delivery of a story where when we're in dialogue, when we're actually become the character, we are on a certain place in the stage. But then when we become the narrator, when we become the speaker again, we want to almost step out of that hologram and point back if we're referring. So when I had the opening of my championship speech, I fell forward on the stage. I stood up and I asked the audience, excuse me, I stood up, I stepped to the side. I pointed back to the hologram of hologram of me lying down, so I'm away from it. And I pointed to where that is etched in the audience's mind. And I said, did you feel I stayed down too long? So as I pointed at that hologram, I was away from it as the speaker, as the narrator. So I was now out of the hologram. So when we here's the character in the story and dialogue and there's you as the speaker. So when Mark and I teach this, I'd love to have you join us at one of our events. We love what we do. Got our big game changers event coming up in March. Think of it as a hula hoop. When the character is in dialogue, they're standing in the hula hoop delivering and only talking to other characters. There's no audience there. It's character talks to character. When you narrate for clarity, you need to step outside of the hula hoop and then you can talk to the audience and then you can refer back to the character. But that's what we mean by the hologram. When you're telling dialogue, oh, Darren, we have a lot of work to do. That's me doing Mark Brown. I'm in character. I can then step outside of the character and say, that day the lesson I learned was clear, if you're not coachable, there is no cure. So now I can say that to the audience. But when I'm Mark Brown, I can only speak to Darren. Darren can only speak to Mark Brown. So think of a hula hoop when you're in conversation. When your character's speaking, think of it. You're in a hula hoop, and then when you're the speaker, you step out. That's the in and out, Mark.

Yeah, that's a great idea. I love when you feel physically bring those hula hoops to our live events and how the audience see it in action. Because when you can grasp the concept of being in that hologram, that sets the scene, that creates a conversation between the characters and the audience's mind, then associates that location with that conversation, those individuals, that conflict that may arise in that situation, it's once again the powerful way to anchor the idea in the minds of the audience. Really powerful. Hmm.

Wow. Mark, we've covered a lot of ground in a short amount of time, but I really think this is so important. If you want to be unforgettable, you've got to use what we call stageology.

I love that word, Darren. But you know what it is? I can't get away from this. And I said it in the introduction. So many people, one of their goals is, I want to be a TED speaker. And they finally get to be on the TED stage and they're confronted with.

The red dot, the dot.

And that red dot becomes you. Do you gotta be there? No matter what happens, stay on that red dot. Now, that could be for lighting and for camera. I totally get that. But if you, you are. If you grew up in the TED world, you're almost confining yourself to what the red dot says. When there's so much you can do with the stage, if you apply the art of stageology. So if you're a TED speaker or TEDx speaker and you're accustomed to being on that Red dot. And I recall one video we saw down. It was one of our speaker friends who was not on the red dot for the whole time because the lighting wasn't right for her to move and.

They told her not to. For anybody knows who we're talking about. They told her not to. So she was following orders.

Yeah. Again, not to. Not a TED system. But if you are not on the TED stage, you do not have to think of. It's just the red dot. You have to think about how can I best tell the story, deliver the message in a way that connects with the audience verbally, visually, emotionally. And there's so much you can do when you apply stageology. See what I did there?

Nice. I think Mark, though, if I have, by the way, I cannot confirm or deny. This is total speculation. I believe they came up with the idea for the dot not just for camera and lighting, but for people that use a stage and go back and forth in their cage lions. Okay, here we're gonna nail Mark. You remember I did, I was coaching somebody once and I literally would frip and I literally got on the stage and I held his feet down. I said, go ahead and talk. And he almost couldn't do it. But it was fun. But it also made a point that a lot of people, I would rather have you not move than move without purpose. And Mark, I know some of our corporate presenters are like, well, I don't have a stage. I'm at the end of a boardroom table. Perfect. Let's just shrink down this idea and minimize it. If you're at the end of a 6 or a 10 or 20 foot conference table, you've still got, let's say, 2ft to your left and 2ft to your right. So you could still use moving over to one side to talk about how we weren't doing it right before or how this customer made these mistakes. But now that we've been working with them, here's the results they get. And so they move to the other end of the table. So they're only moving a step or two. Yet it's still moving with purpose. And then of course, if you close, you close from the side of the stage or the side of the table, which is the way they want to be, where they want to be, and you avoid the other way. And if you're over here, this is what our company does. We help good presenters be unforgettable. So it's minimized, but it's still a use of stage.

Yeah. And that's enough. That is Helpful for those individuals who find themselves doing breakfast events, luncheon events, or any kind of meal event. And you've done several of these Toastmasters conferences, Darren, where you. They say, oh, Darren, you're guest of all. You gotta be on a platform with our president, with our director. And you sit next to the director. You got somebody on your left, on the right. And they say, darren Lacroix. And you stand at a lectern at this box, and there's somebody two feet to your right and they're sitting down. And you want to tell a story and show action. But you really have restrictions there. And I tell people sometimes all it takes is turning it an angle to indicate a conversation. And you combine that with a little vocal variety, a little different voice, a little different demeanor to show different characters. But you can still have movement that means something. Even six inches to one side can depict an emotion, can depict a situation. If you use the space you have. Well. But remember, just because you have a lot of space doesn't mean you have to use all of it. It has to be used wisely.

And Mark, I don't know if you know this or not, but Rick Moranis is coming out with a new movie or a remake of the movie. Another episode of the movie Honey I Shrunk the Stage. No, but he is actually coming out with a new movie. I just saw that on TV last night. But anyway, yep, there's another honey. I don't know. It's Honey I Shrunk something. So I don't know exactly the title of the movie, but anyway, I could not resist. The comedian in me came out, it made me laugh.

And I didn't give you any bad puns today. Let's not do that. Right? I'm gonna be good. I'm gonna be a good boy today.

All right, so Mark Brown, use of stage. Too many people are wanderers. They just use it without purpose. Or they use the left, right and center and then try and use it equidistant. Equidistant.

Nice. I like that. Equidistant of all sides.

I don't even know if I said it right. But anyway, use it the same. I'm over here for 3.32% of the time over here. Like, stop, stop. Use it. I remember Ed Tate when he was on, he tells us about when he used the different scenes not in a certain left to right order, but a different scene. So he had the police officer scene in one place. He had the ticket counter because he was getting his ticket for his plane. And then he had the gate and then he had the food court and he snuck up on stage the night before with little tiny pink sticker dots and put them so he could expand the stage that he was used to using because he was pract practicing in a smaller venue and then expand it proportionally so he could go and hit these spots. But he had the tiny little pink dot that told him this was the police officer, this was the food court, this was the ticket counter. So it was done extremely well. But he knew his stage, he knew his message. But most importantly, he did such a great job with that story and his whole speech is one story, and that's the beauty of it. But he told it in a way, using the stage so strategically and now it's one of the things we use as examples that we teach.

It's a great one. And yes, having that strategy, having that purpose, having it be deliberate and intentional is powerful. I do know, Darren, that you know, and as the time is winding down here, I do know that when you teach presenters, you do have an almost non negotiable about stage use when it comes to the final conclusion, the call to action. And when they end their presentation, what advice do you give the speakers about using the stage to let everyone know. I'm going to conclude my final point. I'm going to bring it home right now.

Well, moving forward, on your close, taking that one step forward, knowing that you're going to close. And little tip from our buddy Kevin Burke when they start applauding. Applause Applauding. He actually steps back and opens his arms up, which actually opens the audience up. It's brilliant. And I didn't even. I never even saw that. But that's why we surround ourselves with great coaches, Mark, because you and I continue to learn and that's what we love to do and teach.

Amen to that. Yeah.

Any other final thoughts on use of stage?

Well, don't forget, friends, that you can use your stage as a timeline to show past, present and future, or at least a progression. Remember that as the audience sees you, time must pass. Audiences left to audiences right. You as a speaker facing the audience. Time passes from your right to your left so the audience can receive it as theirs. Also, with holograms, you can create scenes, conversations, situations that are always going to be seen by the audience to represent something. One of the keys we want to reinforce is this. So many presenters don't realize the value of the depth of the stage, not just the length and not just the left and right and center. The Depth can show so many different emotional components and that can reinforce the message as well. If nothing else, remember that the depth has great power if you use it with purpose.

Thank you Mark, you Sub Stage is a game changer. We've got an event coming up if you want to join. Mark, me and five of the other best speaker coaches in the world including Jennifer Lear, Mark Eaton, Ed Tate, Kevin Burke. So much fun. We're going to have Ford Sakes too. Ford Sakes on the business side. So join us in March. If you want to check out details just go to stagetimelive.com stagetimelive.com you can join us for the event in Vegas or you can join us virtually and get the recordings as well. So Mark, look forward to seeing you next week on Next Week podcast. Thanks for being here. Remember Stageology.

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