Ep. 262 NSA? TOASTMASTERS?

Hey there. Mark Brown, NSA Toastmasters. What? Which one? Which one would be best for me? Should I join one? Should I join the other?

Should I join the. Which one first? I know.

Why would I need nsa? I'm already in nsa. Why would I need Toastmasters?

Questions, questions, questions. Right.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time, stage time, Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. Ahas, let's dive right in.

All right, Mark Brown, welcome. We just. We just went through a ToastMasters convention, an NSA convention. And for a long time since 2002, there hasn't been that symbism.

Symbiotic relationship.

Symbiotic relationship. But at the NSA convention, National Speakers association, which may have different names in other parts of the world. So if you're another part of the world, if you're in Singapore, it's a psa, I think, Professional Speakers association in England, in Australia, so it may have a different acronym, but all part of the Global Speakers Federation, which is an association of associations, but in the United States, we call it nsa, the National Speakers association and Toastmasters. So at the NSA convention, there was a Toastmaster booth, and you and I were there with Amy from Toastmasters. That was super cool. And then over to Toastmasters, there was an NSA booth where we were there hanging out with Maureen and another. Another staff member from nsa, escaping me at the moment, but anyway, but we get this question a lot, and you and I did some plugging for both why NSA members should be Toastmasters and why Toastmasters should be NSA members. So, Mark, I'll let you start things off.

Well, a little background here. Years ago, I had the privilege of meeting with the NSA director, His name was Stacy Tetchner, and Daniel Rex, who's the CEO of Toastmasters, and had a chance to introduce them to each other. And it was a beginning of the idea of building a collaboration and a relationship. And over years, it has gotten better. We were really thrilled to have both organizations wanting to collaborate this particular year, also in ToastMaster Centennial, the 100th anniversary. And Darren, I'm going to be really honest here. I'm going to be very honest and a little bit blunt because for a long time, and I'm NSA 25 plus years Toastmasters, 31 years. For a long time there was this feeling that in some ways NSA was better, or in some ways Toastmasters was different. And many years ago I heard this line. There is a significant difference between NSA and Toastmasters. Toastmasters will teach you how to speak, NSA will teach you how to get paid. And for a long time that kind of idea was in my head. But the more time I spent in both organizations, the more I realized both organizations have value for anyone who wants to be unforgettable. And you had a very unique experience, at least from my perspective, because I believe you were NSA before Toastmasters or at the same time. I'm not quite sure how that worked, but when I met you in 2001, you had already been to NSA before that, right?

Yeah. I don't remember which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Sorry.

But I had both in the same year because I saw the value in what I needed. So I love this. I heard it from Mike Rayburn, but I think it originated with someone else. One of the. Oh, it's escaping me, but long time phrase in the NSA world is if you're not getting paid what you want as often as you want. The problem is your speech. It could also be your marketing materials. But a lot of. And I'm just. This is just our opinion. So Mark and I are members of both. You may have a different opinion, may have a different experience, but what I've found is, Mark, whenever I speak to NSA chapters around the globe, literally, I always make sure they understand the value of Toastmasters. Because if you're not getting paid what you want as often as you want, the problem is your speech. I suggest you need a coach. But even with a coach, you need a place to work on stories, to get some feedback and see how it's resonating with people, real life people. Toastmasters gave me a place to make mistakes. But even to this day, still, you and I are still members of both. I use Toastmasters as a place where I work on new material. I was in the NSA last story standing competition this year. Why? Because I was working on a new story. But I really want to prove to people and Let NSA know. NSAers know even if they've been on around, around a long time, that you know, maybe we need some help. Maybe we do. Now look, I'm gonna be blunt here. I get it. There are some Toastmasters who are not great presenters. That's why they're there. They're there to improve. So you can't judge all of Them by a couple of them.

That's true.

Even in nsa. I've seen a lot of NSA people who aren't that good. And that's okay. I wasn't that good when I showed up either. So if you're in Toastmasters and you want to get paid to speak, NSA is a great option to learn that. We can't try and figure it out ourselves. We can't have that dream and wonder. Dream isn't something you. A dream isn't something you wish for. A dream is something you work for. But are you doing the right work? That's the question. Are you doing the right work? Especially if you're like me and still have a day job when you're getting started. Well, I had a day job, so I had limited time because I was still paying my bills. So what do I do with that limited time? Toastmasters has weekly meetings, sometimes bi weekly meetings. But look, if you're serious about the skill in the business, why aren't you working on the skill? And if you are working on the skill, perfect, keep going. But we need that practice audience, let's say low stakes presentation. Because you don't want to be doing your brand new stories in front of a paid audience until you work out the kinks, until you get feedback, until you see how the audience reacts, until that story elicits emotion. But you're never gonna learn the business side of it from people who aren't getting paid in the business. To me it goes back to that Jim Rohn quote, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. So if you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, who you spending time with and are three of those five people are gonna stretch you. People are gonna call you out on your stuff. People who are gonna encourage you because they know the right encouragement you can get encourage from well meaning people who have zero experience. It doesn't mean the same as someone who is where you wanna be. I have mentors in both worlds and they were critical. They were critical because if it wasn't for Dave McElhenney, my first coach, I wouldn't have met you. Well, I might have met you, but I wouldn't have had the confidence to walk up to you and ask you to help me. Dave was critical to that. So I'm blabbering a lot.

No, you're sharing truth from your experience. I went to my first Toastmasters meeting in December of 1992, over three decades ago. @ the time of this Recording, of course. And I remember when I went, I didn't know much about the organization. It was a chance to learn, to speak better. That's wonderful. But over time I was in a corporate open club. Those NSAers who may not know what that means. Toastmasters clubs are often very, very often community clubs. And sometimes there are corporate clubs at a corporate club at Readers Digest in Pleasantville, N.Y. and corporate clubs are very often closed and are only for employees. We had a corporate open club, which means people in our community could come to our meetings and participate as regular members and even take office. Why do I say that? We had individuals coming into our club from various backgrounds. There was Cynthia who had written a book and she was going to go on a book tour. And she wanted to prepare herself to be better on a book tour for media, short term questions, short interviews, and also to read part of her book and to answer questions maybe at a local library. I hadn't been familiar with any of that. I didn't know that world existed at all. But she was able to come to our Toastmasters meetings and prepare herself for the environment of being in a professional world. As an author. That never occurred to me. In addition, we had one individual who was a college professor who would bring their technical presentations to our meetings and deliver seven to 10 minutes of the opening part of their college lecture for us to hear what it was like and assume the role of university students in their classroom. Those were wonderful ways for them to acquire the skills they needed with a live human audience that was very receptive, along with evaluators whose job it was to let them know what they did well and and offer advice and suggestions in a very friendly environment for them to improve their presentations that wasn't readily available in that format in a National speaker association meeting. And that was one benefit I saw early on the Toastmasters that many of us may not consider because we see ourselves as becoming better speakers, better leaders entering a contest but not seeing the value in the real world that being a part of a Toastmasters Club can provide when you need a wonderful, open, engaging, interested practice audience. And that to me was one great benefit. When I first went to National speaker association and I was urged to do so by a legend, Willy Jolly of the nsa. I saw all these pros getting all these high tech experiences and instruction and how to build a business and had all these metrics and I'm like, whoa, what's going on here? And I realized the function at the time or the direction, the emphasis was a little bit different you combine both of them, man, it could be a powerhouse. But we don't need. I would encourage everyone who's hearing this, who may not be familiar with either organization, to not jump to any quick conclusions. Check them out, see what's there, and find out where the value is. And as one, one small point I want to make also, please do not think that being in the NSA does not mean you will improve or you don't have time or work on your presentation to make it better. That's why the NSA chapters have academies, which I'll go into more a little bit later. Darren?

Yeah, I mean, think about this. Think of Toastmasters as a scrimmage. If you're a professional athlete of any kind, you need that real world scrimmage. Toastmasters is a great place to scrimmage to work on your material, work on your open and close, see which one is stronger. Maybe the opening needs to be the close, but until you're out there with a real life experience scrimmage ing, you're not going to truly get the feedback you need. And Mark, early on in my National Speakers association career, I kept hearing about relationships. You know, it's about relationship and relationship marketing. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what do I do? But what do I do? How do I get bookings? And now I can see clearly the importance of relationships. It wasn't for a National Speakers association, you and I wouldn't have written a book with Patricia Fripp. You and I wouldn't have shared the stage with Patricia Fripp.

Right.

There's just so many relationships of people who've helped me in NSA and so much encouragement that I got through Toastmasters. So when I'm speaking at NSA chapters, I tell everybody about the value of Toastmasters because some people aren't aware of the value that you can squeeze out of it. If you're serious about getting paid, you know, the business and the skill. Because we need to be good at both or we ain't gonna get any bookings, never mind high paid bookings. Mark?

Yeah, I'm glad you said we have to be good at both. I think it was Mike Rayburn, hall of Fame speaker, who said, you know, the best marketing tool is your speech, and where do you go to really make your speech better? The environment between the NSA and Toastmasters is different in that sense, where much of the emphasis in a Toastmasters meeting is upon what comes out of your mouth as a presenter, and they assign an evaluator for that specific reason. Hopefully our evaluators have enough experience to understand how they can best help us. Now, again, being very brutally honest, there are times in a Toastmasters Club because the level of experience may be different and evaluator may not see what a seasoned pro may see in an NSA environment. That notwithstanding, having the idea of someone who's always there to evaluate, to point out what you do well, to make suggestions and recommendations of how you can improve that is a step in the right direction from taking a speech that you have at one level and continuing to hone and improve it. Now I know I'll get some Toastmasters a little bit frosty when I say this. Being an old school legacy Toastmasters member, I can remember when assignments were you give a speech, it's evaluated and then boom, next assignment, move on, move on, move on. To get your first ctm, Competent Toastmaster, an old designation, you had to do those 10 speeches in a certain time, get them signed off. Evaluate is great. However, there are times it's wiser for us to take a presentation. It may be good, but how do I make it better? How do I make it better? And nsa, because you're working on being a professional, a talk you will give several times over, there's always a continual push to make it better. A Toastmasters Club is a wonderful place to go and continually make it better. Improve what you bring to the audience who is paying you. So there's definitely value, not only in the live practice audience, but having the benefit at times of very experienced speakers who can really help you in that way. And that's why, Darren, I would advocate that even seasoned NSA members be a part of a Toastmasters Club. Not so much for what you can get out of it, but what you can give you can bring the experience, the knowledge, the vision, the understanding of a presentation. So when you deliver an evaluation to an emerging speaker, they get quality, not just quantity. You can deliver a more concise but clear, focused evaluation to help them improve their presentation. And they can get even better with your qualified expertise pushing them forward. There is benefit not just in what you get from the organization, but what you can give as well.

Mark, I think it was Joe Calloway that originally said that if you're not getting paid what you want as often as you want, it's your speech. I think Mike said that when we were interviewing him, so I just want to give credit. We heard it from Mike, but he passed it on from Joe Calloway. Look, we highly encourage you. Here's the thing. If you've never been to a Toastmasters Club. Go as a guest, check it out. You can say no or it doesn't fit for you, but here's what I'd recommend. Visit three clubs. Each club has their own personality and you might realize you jive with one, but maybe not another. So go and check them out. This is your profession. Take it seriously. And if it's not for you, that's okay. But at least you checked it out for yourself. You're not wondering. But what's cool is if you are a paid speaker and you go to a Toastmasters Club, like Mark just said, you walk in as a hero, you're already a hero. You're where a lot of them want to be. And you know, there's a lot to be said for the feeling when you give back, when you help other people. And by the way, it could also be a great place to get people to join your chapter to check out your chapter, you know, and you can join one Toastmaster Club and give some presentations at other ones as a member of one club. So it's a way to possibly build your chapter. So what we're saying too is NSA Toastmasters.

Yes, definitely. And Darren, you mentioned about chapters. What you will find is there are significantly, proportionally more Toastmasters clubs available to you than there would be NSA chapters. NSA chapters generally are based upon a state or several states, depending on the state size or regions within states. Like you have NSA Central Florida, we have NSA Georgia, we have members who may come from Tennessee because they can get to us. Had a call yesterday with NSA Kentucky, and they serve a couple of other states as well because of their proximity. You may have a Toastmasters Club, you may have four or five Toastmasters clubs in the same city. And there are even corporations that have different clubs within the corporation. So there are more physically more Toastmasters clubs to be available, available to you. And there may be one NSA chapter within 100 miles of you. It doesn't mean. Well, they're far away. I can't go. My NSA chapter, George, chapter is an hour and a half to two hours drive from me on a Saturday when I go up or Thursday in good traffic going into Atlanta from where I live 100 miles away, this happens. But that's my chapter. And the chapters I mentioned earlier, chapters also have for those who are emerging, who want to learn the speaking and the business, NSA speaker academies, that's an investment for the member, but they go through a prescribed program with a cohort of other academy members. A prescribed program over a period of time, at which time they kind of graduate with a showcase and everyone gets to hear what they've worked on for several months. A part of the Academy program is also the business of speaking how you are introduction, a business plan. What will you do going forward? What tools are you going to need? So the NSA certainly provides more in terms of the professionalism. But to combined it's a double blessing to have both the NSA membership and the Toastmasters membership. Both organizations have national international conventions or national convention influence for nsa and of course the annual Toastmasters convention. And there are ways to meet other professionals, other speakers. And I have found I have met NSA Toastmasters members at both of those national and international events. It's a family of individuals who want each other to grow. In the nsa, you'll hear about the spirit of Cavett, how do we help and serve each other. And in Toastmasters, some Toastmasters club recite the Toastmasters mission and what the club is supposed to do to create the environment where they can all be supportive. They're very similar objectives there. We shouldn't be at enmity. We should say, okay, what value can I receive from each and what value can I bring to each? And with that mindset, not only will you grow as an individual presenter and as a professional should you choose that path, but you also find ways to help others grow. And as well, it's a wonderful opportunity and I recommend you check out both. Check out the nsa, visit your local chapter, ask about the Academy, what's involved and consider, is this something I'll want to do? One last thought. I know there's also concern regarding the investment. The investment in the NSA is significantly more than in Toastmasters. But the value of what you're going to get and decide what's best for you. We're not saying pick one or the other, we're saying check both out. Decide what would serve you best, how you can serve best, what fits your budget. And you'll also find you'll be able to build relationships with individuals who can help you, who you can help as well. For me, Darren, being in both is a win win.

Yeah. And a little context too. Mark explained there's one NSA chapter in your state or maybe two in the state like Florida or California or maybe one that covers a few states. I know I was involved with NSA New England when I first started. Now they have two chapters. Now they have NSA New England and Connecticut. Wasn't that way before, but context of Toastmasters. By the way, if you want to get more info, go to nsaspeaker.org nsaspeaker.org if you're in another country, go to the global federation and you might be able to backtrack to the one in your country. Or do a Google search of the Professional Speakers association of whatever your country is and you can find that or you contact us, we can help you find that for Toastmasters. As Mark said, there's one in a city or a couple in a state in Toastmasters in Las Vegas. To give you an example. NSA Las Vegas is one chapter. We meet once a month for a half day, second Saturday of the month for Toastmasters. There's about 59 clubs in Las Vegas. So now there's morning clubs, afternoon clubs, community clubs, corporate clubs. But if you go to toastmasters.org you'll see a button that says find a club near you and you can put in your zip code and it will help you find them. And then you can sort by day of the week based on your schedule. But highly recommend. Again, check out three clubs. Even if you don't join, just go as a guest, see what you think. See if this would help you grow. We believe it will. So NSA or Toastmasters? Yes, we hope you check them out. By the way, Mark and I are just doing this because it's the right thing to do. We get nothing for this. Tell them we sent you. You know, we'll get a pat on the head or pat on the back or something but we just, this is our experience. If you've been around us, if you listen to us, you know, we just share our experience from our heart and we love what we get to do and want to help others do the same. Final thoughts, Mark?

Yeah. Nsa question mark. Toastmasters, question mark Again for me it's both. But do yourself a favor, check both out and see what value you can receive, what value you can bring and be unforgettable.

See you next week.

Make sure you subscribe to our show.

Remember to subscribe because if you miss a week, you miss a lot.

If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from from Mark and Darren, check out Stagetime University where they provide experienced presenters a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about. Go to stagetimeuniversity.com join us next week if you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.