Ep. 270 UNFORGETTABLE SERMONS WITH PASTOR SHANE PHILIP

Hey there, Mark Brown. When I see a sermon that's unforgettable, I must know more. If you're listening to this and you're not a pastor or you don't present in the Christian or Catholic or any of those kind of audiences, you are going to learn a lot from Pastor Shane. I attend the Crossing Church in Las Vegas. I saw this sermon two weeks ago, and I was just like, we have to talk about this. There are three incredible moments that any speaker, any presenter can learn from. Mark Brown, your thoughts.

I can't wait. Let's do this, my friend.

All right, let's go.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? Ahas. Let's dive right in.

Mark.

It's been a long time since I've, like, gotten had some anxiety. Like, I love Shane. I look up to Shane and I'm like, he's here. I told Regina, I'm like, shane, finally. I'm so excited. So, Shane, Pastor Shane Phillip from Las Vegas, the Crossing Church, thanks for being a guest here today.

Oh, man, I've been looking forward to this. We've been trying to make this work for about six months, and I'm glad to finally be here on the podcast.

Well, good to meet you, Shane.

Thrilled to have you here. And again, if you're not a pastor, you're still going to get some insight from this. And we love taking different aspects of presentations and going honing in on what makes them unforgettable. Think about this. If you're not a pastor, you might not get this. They have to create a new presentation every week. Okay. I've been doing this for 30 years. I have like four. And they're really good and they keep getting better. But to do another one each week and make it stick, that just blows me away.

It's overwhelming, to be honest with you. One of the things that we say in my line of work is Sundays come faster than you can imagine. And so, you know, it's that pace of true. And what's funny about in church work is even when you use something you've used before, people will come up to you and go, well, you used that like three years ago. And I'm like, yeah, but it was a great story. I mean, what are you talking about? You know, it's just part of what we deal with.

Oh, man, we appreciate it. And by the way, just for our viewers and listeners, I know sometimes people see pastor or reverend and they may think, okay, where are these guys going with this? Our intent is not to proselytize or to make any converts. We genuinely believe. And we'd like you to understand there's value in learning from what pastors have to go through week in and week out that can inform the way you prepare, plan, and present your next presentation.

Yeah, absolutely.

And one of the things I love about Pastor Shane, Mark, is he just. Levity is part of what he does. It's not like, ooh, let me try and be funny. It's organic. And there were three moments in this sermon that we're gonna hone in on, and then we're gonna back off and kind of learn Pastor Shane's process. And everyone, look, lean in. And Pastor Shane, I always say, be a spongebob. If you want to be unforgettable, be a sponge. So we're doing a new series Made New, and you'll be happy to know I'm actually doing the work. Pastor she.

I'm impressed, Darren. Good job.

Study group tonight, so that kind of. I'm behind, but I'll catch up. Anyway. There are three moments in this, and what I'd love to do is hone in on the moment, show them the humor in it, and then just ask you a little bit about how do you come up with this and. Or how do you tie it into the biblical passage or the biblical message? So, Mark, I don't know if you've had a chance to see this or not. By the way. Mark does a lot of sermons at his church as well. Mark, I don't know if you've seen this, but here's a moment from this sermon called Chosen Made New. You can look it up. The Crossing Church, Las Vegas. Chosen Made New Week one of a series. And you just. I'm dying in the audience. But anyway, let me just play this little clip, and we'll talk about it.

However, the APostle Paul spent three years doing ministry in this city, and so he can teach us a lot about how to thrive in a hostile environment. It was a few weeks ago. I was sitting at my computer, and I got one of those spam texts, you know, where they start off like, hey, Julia, are we still meeting tomorrow? Well, I guess I got bored, so I decided to respond now before you tell me, I know you shouldn't respond to these things. I know, I know, but I did. So I actually took screenshots of this spam conversation. So this is it right here. They start off and they say, good afternoon. What are you doing today? And so I respond, just waiting for your text. Like, oh, that's great. Do you have time tomorrow? I said, sure do. Did you get my invitation card yesterday? I sent you. I said, yes. Tell me what you read in it. I said it was an invitation card. Huh? Are you kidding me? I respond, didn't you send me the invitation card? Was that not from you? I thought you sent it. Excuse me, I'm confused now. Am I talking to Julia's phone number? Yep. Am I no longer invited? Then they say, can I get your picture? So I respond, I thought you sent the invitation card. I don't understand. They go, what you understand? So I respond, what you understand? Said I just tell you. I just tell you to send me your picture if you. I go, huh, Julia, yes. I go, why do you need my picture again? I'm very confused why you don't send me your picture. I go, did you not send the invitation? You have my picture. Why are you asking for it again? You know you have it. And so they respond, because I have doubts with you, Julia. Never talk like that with me. Trying to talk like they did here. I go, are you joking? What are you talking about? And they respond, what rubbish? I said, you've never used that word before. They said, tell the truth. I am telling the truth. You've never used rubbish before. If you don't tell me truth, I will block you. I said, are you for real? Is this a joke? And am I no longer invited?

Aw, go.

I'm not joking with you. I said, I'm not joking. You've never used rubbish before. Block. This is the first time a scammer has blocked me. Nice.

Man. You are just funny, period. I love that. But for everyone, he's not just funny. There's a lot more. And how you tie that into the message, I'm just blown away.

Well, you know, it's funny about that. That is, I did not make any of that up. That is absolutely 100% what happened. And so it was just one of those things. I mean, I was actually sitting at my computer working on a message. It takes me about 20 hours a to work on a message for Sunday. And so I'm sitting at my computer and I was probably bored in the midst of doing my message. And this comes through, and I just decided, I need a little distraction. And I responded, you know, and so it was one of those things that when we're speakers, everything in life becomes a story. We begin to take these things that just happen in everyday life. And one of the things that I love to do is, is that is I tell these stories because everybody has one of these stories. These happen all the time. So when I tell something like that, people are like, well, this happened to me, too. And so I've drawn them in because the relatability, this personal experience with this. But. And. And I actually, I. When that all happened, I just saved the spam conversation, and I'm like, I don't know when I'm going to use it. I will use that. So I have a file of all of these things, a little stories and tidbits. But then what I did with it that particular Sunday is I was talking about, you know, how I. How I came out of that. As I said, you know, we don't respond to these because we know it's somebody trying to steal our identity. And then I just pivoted and I said, I think what we're less prepared for is that we have an enemy who's trying to steal our identity in Christ. We live in a world that tries to steal our identity, and as a follower of Jesus. And this is nothing new. And so it was just a landing point for me just to be able to go into our topic that day, which was talking about our identity in Christ.

And do you intentionally use humor like that near the beginning to create that connection?

It's absolutely what I try to do as I'm putting together, and we'll talk about this a little bit later. But my style is, is I start with a humorous story or a personal experience to relate to them. Listen, I don't tell canned stories. I know a lot of pastors. You know, we've probably all been at churches where, you know, the pastor starts out and says, you know, in 1776, George Washington braved the winter. Okay, whatever. Maybe somebody relates to that. I tell personal stories, and I don't use any canned stories. And it's got to be really, really good. But I tell personal stories because everybody can relate to them, and I want to bring the defenses down. So I love to be able to start off with just humorous things. And number one, it makes them feel like I'm a normal person. You know, I'm not somebody up here telling everybody else how to live, that I live the same way. I've Got, you know, my kids do stupid things, I say stupid things to my wife. You know, it helps them feel like I'm a normal person. And then it helps them to relate to whatever I'm going through because they've got a story just like that. So I want to draw them into the topic and set up some kind of a tension then that gets us going. And so that's kind of the way that I like to start out a message.

So it's about creating the connection near the beginning.

Absolutely, yes.

I mean that was like comedy club funny. Like that was good.

You know, it was one of those, you know, I don't have something that good every week. And I was telling my team afterwards, I'm like, I thought this was funny. You know, I mean, it's one of those. Sometimes you make something kind of funny that's not that funny, but just the way you can even self deprecating, you go, well, that was funnier than I thought, than you guys gave me credit for. But the audience responded to that way better than I thought they were going to. And so, you know, and obviously that, you know, feeding off of the audience, it was one of those things that just made it unforgettable.

Yeah. And the confidence that you had because you believed it was funny, that's one of the things we taught this weekend at the humor boot camp. If you believe it's funny, you're more likely to deliver it with confidence as opposed to, let me see if this works right.

And you know, and what I've learned over the years, listen, I've been, I've been doing this for a long time. I've been a pastor for, gosh, like I worked my way through college as a pastor. So I've been a pastor for like 38 years. I've been a senior pastor where, you know, I have the opportunity, you know, I'm the regular communicator for over 24 years. And so what I have learned over the years is. You're exactly right, Darren. That, that I think a lot of times people come into these things and they're, they're timid. And I've just learned that, that if you just exude confidence and it's one of the things I encourage people with, you get up there, you be confident in your material and even if it's not as good as you would like it to be, your confidence breathes confidence in your audience as well. And so, you know, I just get up there and I just do my thing and I'm going to Tell this like this is the greatest story ever because they're here today, you know, I mean, they're here to, you know, and so let's, let's make that connection now.

Question for you. This is a real life experience which you thrive on.

Yes.

You ask yourself, how can I use this in a sermon and try to create the environment where you can use it or do you allow it to fit into your message or your idea organically?

I try to do it organically. You know, I mean, there's times, honestly, when, when we got to do this every week, you know, we got to come up with a new 30 minute talk every week. There's sometimes you're like, okay, I need something here and I need something to fit, but I like it a lot better when it just happens organically. And I think I have done this long enough. And, you know, I've been, I've been doing messages, you know, I've got a file of messages that I've been doing at this church for 24 years now. Honestly, some of them are really bad. You know, I go back and, you know, to the early years. I'm like, okay, I will never use anything in that ever again. But a personal story, you know, so a lot of times I can take something I've used, you know, three, four, five, ten years ago. And okay, that was great. A couple weeks ago, I was needing a story on injustice. Now it was a, it was just a. I needed something humorous and funny. And so I actually, so I load all of my messages into Chat GPT. And so I just asked ChatGPT, I said, is there a funny story I've done about injustice happening? And it gave me 10. And I started going through those of my own stories. I mean, it was incredible. My own stories. And I'm like. And so it brought one up where my wife was teaching my daughter how to drive. And I'm like, oh, this is good. And I like, four years ago. But listen, you know, the people who have heard it before. It was four years ago, the people have never heard it before. And so I was able to take that. I dislike it. It's so much better if it can organically fit. And so that's where I just keep a file of all of these things. I'm like, okay, that was a good experience, a good conversation, whatever. I'm just gonna hold on to that. And then, you know, and I'll just, I'll just do a search on my computer of, you know, I try to tag them. And, and so then to Pull those up because those are the ones that really work.

So real quickly saying you're using an AI tool to help you to, to draw out what's in the massive catalog of 28 years of sermons. So for somebody who's starting out now and they say I'm beginning to collect my stories, how would you recommend they use a tool like Chat GPT?

I'll tell you how I use it. And let me tell you, I am a novice at this. I'm, I am just learning it. So I've got some, I've got some friends, pastors who are really good at this. I'm actually switching over to a new platform called Church Tech and it's designed, it's on the platform of Chat GPT, but it's designed for pastors. But, but I've been using Chat GPT for about the past six months. And so I, I catalog all those in there. But the way that I will use Chat GBT is, is like in this instance, you know, I'll, I'll say, do I have a story? But a lot of times where I will use it is like yesterday I was writing a message and I had it, I had a phrase that, that I used and you know, some type of application phrase, but I knew that I needed to do a second application phrase. You know, it's just one of those that if I just say it, if I just do once, it's going to be gone, people are going to miss it. I need something else to follow up. So I just put it in Chat gbt. I said, I need a follow up phrase for this right here. And I put it in there. It populated one. I'm like shorter and so it made it shorter. Then I said, I gave it a couple other prompts and then there was something in there that I'm like, okay, that's a keyword that I can use. And so then I plugged that in there. And so a lot of times I'll use Chat GPT that I think it's with every single tool. It allows for some dangerous things, for good things. You know where ChatGPT could be dangerous in my opinion is if somebody in my profession said I need a sermon identity and it gets it out there. You know, I just believe in the power of God working through us to create. But for me, I use it as another resource. You know, I use books and commentaries and podcasts and I'm, and so for me it's just another resource I'll put in there and I'll say, what are Some application points for this verse right here. And you know, it'll spit them all out me. And I'm like, oh, I hadn't thought about that one. And I can take that application point and then I can write around that. And so that's how I'm using. That's how I'm using this tool right now.

Now, I appreciate that because I know some people think I'll have chat GPT just do it for me. But what impressed me initially was you said, I uploaded all my sermons and I asked it to go to my material.

Yes.

Have I had previously a story from my life about injustice and it found 10 of my stories and I really had to respect and admire that because you're not asking to do it for you. You're asking it to look at my own work and find for me more quickly what will take me two days to find kind of things.

Right.

Yeah.

You know. You know, Mark, to follow up with that, I'll just tell you that again in my profession, and this is probably to a lot of your speakers as well, is they will use stories that are not their own. They tell them as if they were their own. Now, I just think that is. That's a lack of character. I will never tell a story that did not happen to me. I will now, honestly, I might embellish something to make for humor's sake, you know that, you know, but I am not going to make up anything. I am not going to tell something that didn't happen. You know, if I tell a story, it is my story. And for me, I love learning from other great speakers. You know, I mean, I love watching TED Talks and I love watching other pastors. And when I hear. It's the same way, when I tell a story, people go, oh, I got a story just like that. Well, when I hear somebody tell a story, I'm like, oh, I've got one just like that. And now I can use my story to illustrate whatever point that I'm making.

Nice.

Yeah. And I've always said your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it. And many of us don't think our stories are sensational enough to be used in a message, in a sermon, in a presentation. But I always say this also, Marcus, is your story need not be remarkable. It only needs to be relatable. Your story need not be remarkable. It needs to be relatable. And when we think about it, we do have everyday experiences that the audience can connect with. As you said, hey, I have A story just like that. So I'll just use mine.

I think that is so well said because I think a lot of people tell these remarkable stories and what you're actually doing is the opposite. Yeah, you're making yourself the hero of the story and yourself the hero. But now all of a sudden, nobody relates to you because they think, well, my life doesn't work like that. You know, pastors, I don't go into an airplane and have a conversation with an atheist and all of a sudden they're, you know, wanting to learn more about God. You know, I mean, come on, give me a break. That doesn't happen. And, and so I think remarkable stories are rarely relatable stories. You know, if it is a, you know, if I have a remarkable story and it works, yes, but man, I would much rather just tell the normal, everyday. This is what life is like for all of us. You can learn from this.

And Shane, one of the reasons I personally love your sermons is you have a similar style to me. And two things. Number one, you like using video clips. And I use more video clips than most people. And I'm going to show a clip from that same sermon that really illustrates a point. And one of the things Mark and I teach is whether you're using a video or a story that we learned from our friend Michael Haig, it must elicit emotion. So that's how one of the ways we choose. But I'll be curious after I show the clip. How did you choose this clip from all the others you could have used? And why did you say, ooh, we need a clip here to get the point across? So this again from the same sermon here. I love this about adoption. So check it out.

It's based on something that was done for you. It is Jesus who makes you holy and blameless. Number one, you're chosen. Here's number two, you're adopted. You're adopted. I want to show you a video that I think captures adoption better than I can explain it. Watch this.

If you're listening to the audio version, there's a young girl given a box and a man and a woman coming next to her and she's opening up the box. I'm going to be adopted. And her face, the emotion, and the mom and dad who are adopting her just zoom in on her, can hear the audience applaud. And Mark, I would say that whole video clip is maybe 12 seconds, something like that. So, Pastor Shane, why a clip? Why that clip? When do you use clips?

Couple. Couple things is I. It was A point of my sermon, point of my message where I felt like I needed. I need a breather. I've given them a lot of information, and I wanted them. I wanted to elicit an emotion. And so I picked that clip for adoption. I had run across that from. Actually, another pastor friend of mine used it, and I'm like, oh, again. I mean, I just made a mental note. This is really good. When I have an opportunity, I will use that clip. I just knew that if I talked about adoption, most people know somebody who is adopted, but they don't feel it, you know, unless you've been adopted, you don't feel that. And so I wanted them to feel the emotion of somebody who has been adopted into a family that they were not born into, because that's what God says about us, is that he adopts us. So I just didn't feel like that. That the information of adoption would get the response that I wanted, like the emotion to draw people in at that moment. A lot of people will use video clips as a crutch. You know, it's like, I got to have a video clip every time I talk. Well, if it's good, maybe, you know, But I want to use it as an enhancement to be able to do something that I cannot do with my words or in my message.

Well, I like the idea of you chose it. And you said, this video will probably explain it more clearly than I can. And you did say you wanted to give them audience a breather. We talk about, Shane, what we call case elements in a presentation, particularly when you're virtual. You see a talking head all the time. All the time. But the video clip changes the experience the audience in your case congregation has. And you said, give them a breather. It's a different experience. And then it had the emotion in it. And you were wise enough not to talk too much about it afterwards. But let the emotion do its job. Let the audience applaud, which. And that in so doing. And please hear this, friends. When the audience applauded for the video clip, they were telling Pastor Shane, we get the message. He no longer needs to pound it into them again. Because the tool he applied was effective for the goal he had. So think of your. Your visuals, your illustrations, and your video clips as tools to help you deliver the message in a unique, interesting, and unforgettable way. And what I really admire here is, is, Shane, you don't think of your ego here. You're thinking, what's the best way for the audience to get the Message? Use a 15 second clip to support it, it do its job. And as speakers, you know, we have, we need a bit of an ego, wouldn't you agree, Shane? To be on a platform every week.

I don't know what you're talking about, Mark Brown.

But to find that balance, where this can actually be a visual aid, as in helping me and choosing it wisely. Darren said earlier there were moments in the message and that was a moment moment. So to drill down a little bit deeply, more deeply on this very quickly, Shane, how do you decide which moments to use? Visuals.

I think you said it well. When the visual can say it better than I can say it and when, when I can add that in, we, you know, I mean, we're so used to video clips that we are a video generation in society and so we're used to that. And so when it can say it better than I can. And you just said it so well, Mark, that, that video that I, that I used, I just said, hey, this can say it better than I can say it. And then I came out of it. The only thing I said was that's how God feels about you. Then I'm off, I'm on drop. I don't even say anything. They've got it exactly, you know, so then I talked about, you know, what the Bible says about adoption, you know, what the Apostle Paul said there in Ephesians, and. And then we're back in it.

There was one more thing though, Shane. You said it a while ago in a sense that you realized that it would be better to have that clip used there. And you also said we are in a video high visual generation. The wisdom I received from that one statement, Shane, is that we as presenters have to be aware of what's happening around us. What does a culture call for? What does the industry call for? Now I'm older and I may want to resist some things. I have still not yet mastered TikTok. The way Darren has. It's not worked for me the way it has worked for him. But I have to be aware if I need to reach my particular demographic in a way that's going to be effective. What are they drawn to? What works for them, what will be effective for them. And the brilliance was it was not an extended video clip. Darren teaches keep it as short as it needs to be. He pounds that into my head. And of course our clients as well. But the value there is understanding what the culture appreciates, accommodating them without losing your vision, your focus and your purpose. That's gold right there. So thank you, Shane.

Yeah. And then the third moment that I wanted to talk about, I personally am an illustration guy. I love illustrations. And one of the messages in the Made New series is about sealed, that we are sealed. And I would have never, ever thought of this. And I know you mentioned. And by the way, he gives credit that he saw this this week. Now, for those of you who are professional speakers, we don't encourage using other people's illustration who are professional speakers. But in the pastor world, look, this is for God. So it's acceptable, especially when you give credit that you didn't take it on. Like, here's my brilliant idea. But I love how you get this across. And it was. I was in Darren Euphoria on illustration. So let's check this out.

I saw an illustration this week just to kind of help understand this. I've got two cans here. They are exactly the same. I bought them at the same time. They were manufactured in the same place. The aluminum that they're made out of weighs exactly the same. There's one big difference. One is filled and sealed and the other is open and empty. And if I apply a little pressure to this one that is open and empty, something very predictable is going to happen. It crushes. It crushes under the pressure. Honestly, this is how some of you feel about your life right now, that the pressure of life has been so overwhelming that you just feel crushed by it. Well, this other can that is filled and it's sealed. If I put the same pressure on this, I'm going to balance myself here. It withstands. What's the difference? It's filled and it's sealed. It's the same pressure. It's the same force. Wow.

And Mark, I timed it. The whole illustration, I timed it about 10 seconds less. The whole illustration is 1 minute and 25 seconds. Seconds.

Wow.

And what a powerful way. Filled and sealed. Oh, my gosh.

You know, it was. It was interesting because as I was. As I was thinking about it, I actually had seen a pastor by the name of Josh Howerton do that. But Josh Howerton gave credit to another pastor who he got it from. Which is kind of the reason why I didn't just, you know, a lot of times, I'll give the name. Hey, I got this from. Sure. It was.

So we don't know the actual origin.

Right, Right. I just know it wasn't for me. Yeah. And I'm not this smart, but you don't need to be, you know, I mean, there's nothing new, but it was one of Those things that, as you know, again, there's some people who just go overload on object lessons. You know, I call it an object lesson. And so I was a student ministry pastor, so I was a pastor for junior high and high school kids for 10 years. And so, man, you gotta have an object lesson every week, you know? You know, and so sometimes, you know, you. You don't want to be the prop guy, you know, I mean, you don't want to be the. The guy who's known for props. And again, unless that's your less, that's your gig, you know, I mean, but, man, when you've got the right one, it makes it unforgettable. And what's funny about when we have the right object lessons, the right props to make a point, people don't remember anything else you did, but they'll remember that. And if they can remember the point of it, look, mission accomplished.

Boom.

Mission accomplished. And if we have time, I'll talk about this in a minute. You know, I mean, I don't remember my talks. You know, I mean, I can't remember what I said. How do I expect people to do it? But if I can give them some nuggets that they walk away with that they don't forget, as obviously, you know, we're talking about unforgettable presentations that we can give some things to make them sticky and stick. You know, in my world, it's not just for comedy's sake, which is great, I love it. But, you know, we believe that there's something deeper, that we want people to have an authentic relationship with God. So if we can help them with that, then that's going to be all the difference in the world.

Yeah, it's like those moments. So an unforgettable sermon is filled with unforgettable moments, and that's what we need to create, where we elicit emotion. And Pastor Shane Mark knows this. This is my pet peeve about some pastors. Not you, but some pastors that when I talk to them, and they're also a toastmaster or a speaker or something, they do pastoring part time and they say, I ask them about their preparation process and they're like, oh, I don't prepare. I just choose a passage and I just let the Holy Spirit speak through me. I'm like, no. Yes, the Holy Spirit's amazing. But the Holy Spirit can do more if you prepare a little. And maybe he could help you in the preparation.

Yeah. What makes you think the Holy Spirit doesn't work on Tuesday and Wednesday? And Thursday, to me, when somebody says that you're either lazy or you don't value your audience enough to be prepared and give them good material, but, man, if you're walking up unprepared, there's a problem with that. And, you know, obviously there's times where we're impromptu, hey, can you get up and see a bird? Well, sure, that's different. But I want to be as prepared as I can be because I've been given this incredible responsibility and privilege to talk to all of the people who come to the Crossing and who watch us online. And so they're going to get my very best.

Yeah. Pastor Shane, the. The night before the World Championship in 2001, when Mark was coaching me, you know, I was one of eight finalists and I, you know, or nine back then, and my ego, the night before my ego was start, I'm like, I got a chance at this. I, like, I could really win. And Mark Saab me and kind of pulled me aside away from everyone, and he said, darren, tomorrow morning, you have the privilege of 2,000 lives for seven minutes. What will you do with that? And that brought me right back down, refocused and re engaged.

So good.

Just exactly what you're saying. So what is your preparation process?

Well, so as I'm thinking about a message now. Now, for me, honestly, my. My process is I just call. I'm a scavenger, you know, I am. I listen to. Because I'm a. I'm a pastor. I love hearing good preaching. So I've got, you know, six or eight pastors that I listen to all the time. I listen to them every week, you know, and the reason that I listen to these particular pastors, it's like what you said, Darren, is our styles are the same. So when they, when they say something, I'm like, oh, I love the way you did that. You know, I mean, some people, I'm like, I'm never going to be that person, you know, I'm never going to say it that way. And so sometimes I'll use them just for inspiration. I just want it. But. But I've got six or eight pastors that I listen to who are my style. I like the way they teach. And so it's just every week I'm listening to them just to feel myself to learn my craft, that I want to hear from good communicators because I learn from them, learn how they use a joke, you know, I think the best kind of humor is when you catch people off guard. Again, I will never Tell stupid pastor jokes, you know, the priest, rabbi, you know, went to a bar. It is. It's such the lowest hanging fruit of, if we can even. It's the rotten fruit of, you know, so, you know, I think the best humor is when you catch them off guard. You're telling a story and then you just take them this way. And. And those are the best laughs. Those are the ones that catch them. And so I love to hear a speaker who can do that, you know, and so I'm learning from them. So every week I'm not only feeling myself, because as a pastor, I'm speaking to people who are coming to church and they need hope and they need inspiration. They need to know that God's working in them. And so I need the same thing. So I've got several pastors who just pour into me and they don't even know it. But I'm listening to their podcast every single week. I'm listening to podcasts and I'm getting ideas. I'm reading books, I read the news because I want to know what's going on. You know, I had a professor in seminary who said you ought to have. Now people don't know what a newspaper is anymore, but he said you ought to have a Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other hand.

Cross reference, maybe say it today is.

You gotta have a Bible in one hand. And the Internet on the other hand is, yes, God speaks, but how does it apply to people's lives today? You know, that's the newspaper, what's going on? And so I am constantly just a scavenger. And so then, you know, as I begin to put together, I'm beginning to hone all of these things that I've been doing. But the three questions I'm asking every week, okay, so I'm doing three things. I take them as head, heart, hand. So the head. What do I want them to know about what I'm teaching today? Okay, that's the head. It's the head. Knowledge. Number two, how do I want them to feel? What emotions do I want to exude? And then number three is, what do I want them to do? How do we apply this? Now, you may know a lot of pastors who only use one of these. They may be a great Bible teacher, but at the end you're like, so what? This is what happened 2000 years. So what? What does this have to do with me? That again, because we're all pastors, and so I understand people may not be in the same place. We are and that's okay. I'm just using this as an illustration. You look at the way that Jesus taught. Jesus told stories. Jesus was the greatest storyteller there was. And why did he do that? Well, he was drawing people in. But then he is going to apply it. This is what we do with it. And so, you know, so you have, you have certain, you have certain people who just, they tell head knowledge or, you know, and it's like, for them it's like, well, I, I feel like I just left a graduate level class, I suppose. But if it doesn't push you towards change in the way that you live, so what?

Right.

I don't, I'm not a seminary professor, I'm not a graduate. And so I want them to know certain things. Things. But how do I want them to feel and what do I want them to do? And so I am going towards all of those things every week. And so I'm going to do all of these things. I learned to give credit. Andy Stanley is a famous pastor in Atlanta and he had a book that I read probably 20 years ago that drastically changed the way that I write messages. And so he has this, not an acrostic, he has this point. He called it me, we, God, you, we. Okay, so the me is, I'm going to start with me. How do I relate to this topic? So what does this have to do with me? So then the we. So that's the me. You start out with the me. Then the we is. We all deal with this issue. Here's how we all have this problem, this tension. So that's the we. So then the God part of this. What does God's word, what does the Bible say about this? So now we're going to turn to the Bible. So I've now set up this idea that I'm relating to you. I deal with this issue and you deal with this issue. That here's how it applies to you and people. Yes, I'm here. I feel it. Well, what's God's word say to that? And so now I'm going to drive into a passage of the Bible. Now as a pastor, I'm not just, I'm just going to pick a verse here and a verse there, you know, I mean, no, I want to teach people God's word. I believe that God's word changes lives. It's just my, it is my passion, it's what I believe. And so I want to take them to God's Word. And we're going to drive this down. And so Then the you, so it's the me, we, God, Then the you is how does this apply to you? What do you need to change? How do you need to feel about this? And for me, then what I will do and then the last we is how does it apply for us as a church, you know, together, Corporately. So not just personally, but corporately. So what I will try to do then summarize my entire message or what I want them to take home, I summarize the bottom line in one sentence or a phrase. And so the way I was taught in seminary is you have a three point sermon. You know, we all go towards three point sermons and they're great. You know, Jesus taught in three point sermons. If you look at it, Jesus would use this and I could, you know, go to his most famous sermon teaching, which was called the Sermon on the Mount found in the Gospel of Matthew. You will see all of these three points. And so obviously it's very helpful. But what I found, and I mentioned this earlier, you asked me three weeks from now what my three points are, I don't remember. And I spent 20 hours on it. How do I expect other people to remember it? So I try to leave them with one phrase that they can take home. And so like for instance, in this message that we're illustrating, I was talking about our identity. So my last phrase, my take home phrase was our identity is found in Christ. That our identity is not found in what you do, you know, what you do for a living. It's how we always start. So what do you do, you know, or what you did, what is in your past? You know, we're ashamed of something in our past or what we desire. No, our identity is not found in any of that stuff. For followers of Christ, our identity is found in Christ. I did a series, a four part series on the Lord's Prayer. We all know the Lord's Prayer. You know, our Father who art in Heaven, we know the Lord's Prayer. My phrase, the first week was the purpose of prayer is to align your will with God's purposes. That was it. That Obviously I've spent 30 minutes teaching all of this. This is what I want you to go home with, where it says, give us the day, our daily bread. My take home was to put your trust in the provider, not the provision. I don't put my trust in the daily bread. I'm putting my trust and so I will try to bring it all down. So that's kind of how I prepare a message, is I'm thinking Through all of that. And so at the beginning of my message, I don't want them to know anything yet. Okay? So I'm not going towards the head yet. I'm going towards the heart. So I'm trying to evoke some emotion, trying to build a bridge. And we're not going to talk about what we're going to do yet. Just emotion. So it's just heart. I'm going after their heart at the very beginning. So obviously when I'm going to God's word, you know, that's going to be head. But hopefully it'll be all three. You know, I want them to get some head knowledge. There's some things you need to know about what God says. And I want you to feel. Here's how God feels about you, and then here's what God wants you to do. So we've talked about all that, but the application is, here's what we need to do to change our lives to do that.

One principle that Mark and I teachers right along with that. What's that one line? And we just put a phrase on, we call it your foundational phrase for each presentation, for each sermon. When I. I don't know if you know how Vince found out that I was a. Vince Antonucci, another pastor, found out that I was a coach, he came up to me and he said, would you coach me? And I was like, how do you say no to a guy who works for God? Like, you can't. And when I told him about that idea that was, he goes, you know, I wish I learned this long time ago. But it's that foundational phrase. So we say it should be 10 words or fewer and it should have rhythm to it.

Yes.

Doesn't have to rhyme, but it should have rhythm. Like the, the one you just mentioned about. Put your faith in the provider, what was it?

Not the provision. Put your trust in the provider. Not the provision.

Yeah, provision. Rhythm There is rhythm there.

Yeah, we. We try, depending on each phrase, you know, we try to say always end in the positive one that. The sticky one at the end of the phrase. But we use a tool called word hippo. And then there's a rhyme or tab. So like if provision was the line you wanted to get to in there, you put in the word provision, it gives you all the words that rhyme with it. Again, it doesn't have to rhyme, but it could. It's a great little creative tool that we love to use.

I'm sure there's also AI that could do a similar role. If you ask if you, with the right prompt, you could get AI to do it as well. The point being that we found, we have found that tools can be helpful when used wisely and well, not to dominate or to do the job for you, but to help you as an aid.

Yes. It's just another tool. It's another tool that's in your arsenal to use. Absolutely.

I gotta respect your time. I know you gotta go. Two quick questions. So one question and then Mark will go to the keeper question. But the first question is, okay, so you put your sermon together. How do you internalize it? Like how much time or how many days before? What's your process?

Well, okay, so my process is I actually, I have a two week process. So I write my messages. I'm done like nine days. I'm done on Friday, nine days before I'm going to deliver it. So my process is. So I will start my message. On writing my message, you know, I'm collecting all my stuff. I'll start writing my message on Wednesday. I'll go all day Wednesday. Then on Friday I'll pick it back up and the goal is to be done by Friday. So then the next week on Tuesday, I'm wordsmithing it now, getting all of the graphics to my teams because we want to emphasize certain things. So I'm going to have stuff come up on the, on the video screens and all that because you know, obviously that the visual that's going along with what you're doing. So I'll do that on Tuesday. So then on Thursday I begin to put my notes into my iPad and I am, for me, I just make notes on. Here's how I want to emphasize that word. So, you know, I might put a highlight on it or you know, make some note or I'll write notes to myself on my, you know, on my PDF, you know, Word document. And so then I'm doing that on Thursday. So then on Friday I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna do, I'm gonna speak this out loud. This usually takes me two hours to two hours. I'm speaking it all the way through. I like to, I like to have my opening and my closing memorized. Work on both of those. And then the rest of it I'm using notes and so I like to have those memorized. So I'm going to go through my opening and I'm going to do it six or seven or eight times and I'm going to say it like, oh, I don't like that. And I change it. And then I have spoken this thing out loud all the way through over these two hours, several times. Then I get up on Sunday morning and I pull it out again. I'm going to speak it out loud all the way through again. And then I go to church and we do it. And so that's my process.

Is that one or two services, Shane?

We have three services.

Three.

We have three services. We used to have pre Covid, we had four. So we had one Sunday morning and one Sunday night. But now we just have two Sunday morning and one Sunday night.

Okay, cool, cool. Is it a different talk on Sunday night then?

Oh, same thing. So not like you grew up in where you go Sunday night and you get something, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

Just curious because he didn't have time. No, we do. It's the. It's a identical service. Two Sunday morning, one Sunday night.

People have different schedules. I pretty appreciate that. Now, you notice my head was down a few times while you were talking. I was not being rude. I was literally taking notes. Two pages of notes, by the way.

Oh, my God.

I'll try to quickly go through some of your.

Okay, hold on, Mark, before we do, one more question, but one more idea. If you're a newer pastor, one of the challenges, as you heard, like, I still am amazed that you do a new one every week. Shane, when we work with the CEOs, we do what's called a stage plan. And we have them move to different places on the stage that goes along with the story. But now when they're walking the stage, as they internalize it, it helps them just kind of know, oh, this is when I talk about parables, not PowerPoint or whatever that might be. So we kind of map out a stage plan for the people that we work with. So.

Good.

So last question is Mark puts together his notes. All right, you're sitting down for coffee with a new up and coming pastor. And he says, pastor Shane, I love you. I just admire what you do. And you do this every week. How do I make my sermons unforgettable? What would you tell them?

Well, and I think it is one of the things that I would tell them is, you know, is we're trying to make them unforgettable. Trying to have to make them stick, to make them sticky is a lot of times. And this, sometimes I will get an object lesson or something. I'm like, okay, I can, I can write a whole message around that. But for me, it's like I want to start with as, what is. What's God's Words say about this. I'm going to start there and let that, for me, begin to build out where we're going from there. So I'm just going to tell them, number one, you listen to great pastors and communicators. You learn from them, but begin to put this a process. And so for me, the me, we, God, you, we became a process that I'm like, oh, now I got the. You know, the God part is wherever we're going to be studying. But now I need to think through what. What do I. How am I going to relate to my audience first? How am I going to create the tension for them and so on and so forth. And so I'm going to do that one other thing. And I know we're about out of time. I'll tell you my pet peeve for pastors. It drives me crazy.

Bring it.

Is when any communicator, they tell you what they're getting ready to do. I've got a great illustration that will illustrate this point. I'm like, stop it. Just do it. A joke that will help relate to this. I'm like, stop that. Do not introduce what you're doing. Just get rid of all of that. But I think a lot of people do it because they're uncomfortable. It's what you guys said earlier. It's. Somebody's getting on stage and they don't believe in their material, so they've got to lead with. Okay, I'm going to. I want people to know that this is something that's going to illustrate my point. Just illustrate it. Just tell.

I'm going to tell you a story. Don't tell us you're going to tell us a story. Just tell us the story.

Don't get him started, Shane. We haven't got time for this.

Yeah, Worst is I'm gonna tell you a joke now. It's like you just ruined the cheese.

Ruined it. You ruined it. Yeah.

Oh, Mark. I have one. One. One sound for that.

Yeah, the one I hear my puns. I know.

All right, so, Mark, what do you got for hot? Or do you have a question or. I'll just go to the highlights.

Well, if anyone wants to get hold of Pastor Shane Flume. How do they get hold of you, Shane?

Well, our website is thecrossinglv.com and I've got an executive assistant. Her name is Beth, and you can find her online. You can communicate with me. Anything I can do to help would be glad to do that. And so TheCrossingLV.com is the end. And obviously all of our services are up there as well and we're on YouTube and you know, everywhere else. So.

And if you want wisdom from.

From Shane. Is there any.

Go ahead.

Yeah, I just going to say if you want to see this, the full sermon that we dissected today, just go to put in the search and YouTube. The Crossing Church Las Vegas chosen made new and it should come up like first or second mark.

Week one, week one Darren chosen WK1. Okay, don't get, don't get that. Okay, so here's some Shane wisdom, right? Everything in life becomes a story and people relate to our stories. So keep a file of interesting stories. Find ways to connect your stories to your topic. Right. And always start with a personal experience, a humorous story.

Why?

For relatability. Draw the audience in early and establish a connection. It's important that you're confident in your material because your audience will gain confidence as well. Use AI and similar tools to catalog your stories and bring back the best ones. Remember, normal everyday stories work for all of us. Use visuals that can say it better than you can and attribute whenever you can the source of your material. The right object lesson for the right point is unforgettable. Value your audience enough to begin by being prepared. Learn from good communicators, hone your craft and the best humor will take your audience off guard. To really prepare, fill yourself so you can fill others. Read, listen to podcasts, listen to the news, scavenge from multiple sources. The material is out there. Apply the head, heart, hands principle. What they know, what you want to know, to feel or to do. Always leave your audience congregation with one clear idea. Connect with your audience's heart first. Rehearse out loud several times. And to be unforgettable, know you're open and your clothes cold. Wow. Such wisdom from an unforgettable sermon. Presenter Pastor Shane Phillip. Darren, take us home.

Hey. Final thoughts, Shane.

Well, you made me sound a lot better than I really am, so thank you.

Your words, my friend. Your words.

You know, I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I love what you do and I just love the opportunity to be a little small part of it.

Sweet. Thanks for being here, Pastor Shane. Check out the crossing in Las Vegas. You might see me there. Vince there. But thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. Please pass this on. If you know a pastor that maybe isn't that interesting, please pass this on to them. It's a subtle way to say, hey, I don't know if you heard this before. Thanks for listening to our podcast. We'll see you next week.

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