Ep. 282 COMMUNICATE UNFORGETTABLY WITH LEE COATE

Hey there, Mark Brown. I am thrilled to have Lee Coat here with us today. He's part of the Crossing church that I attend. And Lee, I didn't even warn you about this, but one of my favorite times with you and Pastor Shane on stage was when you were talking football and your teams were going against each other. Thrilled to have you here. Let's just dive in. Mark Brown.

Sure, anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time, stage time, stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. AHAs. Let's dive right in.

All right there. Mark Brown, please meet Pastor Lee Cote. Lee, thanks for being here.

Pleasure.

Thanks for having me. You guys, thanks for having me. You guys be on here. I love the topic. So I'm just glad and honored to maybe contribute a little bit to your listeners on their journey of communication.

First time meeting. Thank you. By the way, before I forget, Lee, I didn't warn you, but at times my head will be down. I'll employ my trusty 2 inch pencil here because I'll be taking notes. I want to capture the wisdom, the insights that you share, which I will summarize towards the end of our broadcast. How does that sound?

Sounds great. You probably only need a 1 inch pencil, but we'll see how it goes.

Now, some people are listening, some are watching. Those who are listening are wondering, what's he talking about? Yeah, I got a two inch pencil here. I run my pencils down to the very end and I have an old school pencil sharpener that I use because I'm just old. But I digress. Darren, take it away, my friend.

All right, well, Pastor Lee, thanks for being here and let's just dive right in. So we help pastors tell unforgettable, deliver unforgettable stories to be unforgettable in their sermons. And where did you start? How did you start your process? Or tell us a great story of the beginning when you didn't know what you were doing.

Yeah, it's interesting because being someone in pastoral ministry for over 30 years, you typically take some sort of a journey. The journey has changed slightly in someone who's in professional ministry now may look slightly different. But when I was emerging into ministry, adulthood, typically, most people would cut their teeth in more of a student ministry area. Right. So you're, you're directing, ministering and speaking, communicating to, you know, 12 to 18 year olds until they figure you've done enough of that and you either graduate or force yourself into speaking to adults. And I actually don't, in hindsight, hate that because I think it's also a great training ground. Obviously, it's important the audience you're communicating to. I would never want to defer the importance of speaking to students, but they're also way more forgiving and also way more challenging. So when you think about, when you think about having to keep the attention of individuals, there's nothing more challenging than a seventh or eighth grader and having to communicate truth that you believe is eternal in nature to them. And so in some ways, I think, you know, a lot of the trajectory nowadays for ministry skips that stage. A lot of people feel like, yeah, that's not my calling. I don't want to work with students. Totally understand that. But from a communication standard, I think it skips a phase that's very helpful in learning that weekly preparation, that weekly rapport. And how do I use illustration and story to actually engage students because they need to be engaged with story and narrative generally. And so my journey really started there, right? Where it's like, go to college, go to seminary, you take a class or two. I don't know if anyone's been on your podcast and had to describe this, but typically administrative ministerial training schools, they're actually putting you in classes where they're teaching you similar to what you guys do, but probably not as well. Kind of the structure of a good sermon. And 1, 2, 3, and do this. And then they expect you to follow that structure. So you're graded not on your ability to communicate, but on your ability to follow the structure.

Was there a name for that, Lee? Like hermeneutics?

What do they call that? Homiletics.

Not Ralph Kramlin, but homiletics.

Okay, gotcha. Homiletics. Again, I don't actually want to badmouth that. I think there's probably, again, a role in structure and learning, basic communication structure that I learned. Right. How do you form a good introduction? How do you have two or three main points? How do you build illustrations? The problem is you come out the other side with a structure, but not necessarily the ability to communicate, because you guys are in this world where communication is more than just what's on the page. Right? It's how do I then Communication draws a response. It initiates action it inspires. The structure itself doesn't do any of that. It's the. It's the person taking the structure and actually, actually using it and leveraging it as a tool. And so I think those years, seven or eight years of speaking to students in large and small groups probably helped me to take that structure, right, that I leaned on early because I didn't know any better, and develop my own personal voice. What's my style? What's my voice? What is my style? And then coming out the other side, probably more prepared to actually be as effective of a communicator as I could be. And so that's. That's kind of the early journey to where I am now, which is, you know, for the last 25 years, on a regular basis, communicating to rooms of adults in different settings, mostly church settings, trying to help them figure out how can the words that I have to say help them in this journey of life that we believe has greater purpose and cause and how can transformation happen? The interesting part being a pastor, right, is we don't actually do the transformation. That's somebody else's job. But to lead people to that place where that's actually possible is a very interesting challenge.

Well, you know, there are some who would say, Pastor Lee, that can't just call you Lee. Lee's Lee.

Good, please.

There are some who would say, well, communication really involves a great degree of influence, especially in leadership. What is your perspective on communication and influence and leadership in the context of ministry? Because here's why I asked the question. It's a tricky question because some may wonder, is there a line between influence and manipulation when you have the authority of a minister? What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I think that the quick answer is, I think manipulation is a potential dark side. And we see that, right? I mean, we've seen that over and over again where the ministerial platform or stage can become a platform for other things. Manipulation, abuse, lack, lack of truth, misinformation alongside manipulation. So I think that is a communication issue, but I think it's a character issue, right? So I think communication actually is a byproduct of the character of the individual and should reflect that. I think that someone. I'm going to mess this quote up. So if I get in the middle of it, I'm going to mess it up. Forgive me, but I heard someone say once, if. If who you are off the stage is not who you are on the stage, you're an actor, not a past. I think I got that right. And so that always that Always stuck with me. You know, the idea of if I step on the stage and I'm a great communicator and I'm a great preacher, but who I am off the stage is not even closely reflective of that. I'm an actor, right. And there's stages for actors. But we believe in ministry, obviously, that the stage is there to inspire, not as a place to. To perform. And so that's. That's a. That's a tricky. I grew up in an era, you guys, where the pastor did have a performance voice, Right. And it probably still exists today, but not in the. Most of the circles that I'm in. But it used to be a thing, right? You. You talk to the pastor, and then the pastor would get on stage, and there was a homily voice that they would go into, right. A cadence and all this. And some of that's kind of cool, right? Like, it would grab you and. And do all of that. But I think there's also. Right. I think in this season that we're in. In the area that we're in, I think people appreciate degree of vulnerability. I mean, Darren and I have talked about this. Like, Darren wants to meet me in the lobby and suspect that I'm the same individual that he just heard speak on the stage. Obviously, there's a level of preparation, there's a level of skill and clarity that you would want to have, but you want to see the same person. And I think that's people's desire now when it comes to communication. And maybe the challenge for communicators that are listening is how do I take who I am naturally and transfer that to the stage where I'm presenting very valuable information that communicates well but does not get outside of who I am.

I really appreciate that because. One quick thought, Darren, because we've been teaching for a while, Darren and I, about how to deliver presentations, and. And one of the things I try to inspire my audiences and our clients to understand is you bring you to every presentation yourself, your experience, your personality. So I really appreciate what you just said, Lee, about who you are being on stage, being who you are in the hall as well. Darren.

Yeah, yeah.

What you just described, we have in the speaking world, too. It's like you're one person here. You go up on stage, and all of a sudden they, like, turn around and become this superhero, and you must believe in yourself. And it's like, who are. You're not the person I was just talking to.

Yep, yep. I've actually found it for me Guys, in my personality, I've actually found it helpful in my communication to actually lean into who I am. So I'll give you an example. I'm pretty self aware. I have lots of flaws and I just doesn't work for every pastor. But. And there's an appropriate filter. But. But I have found that it's endearing for people to get a peek into those flaws or into those experiences. So when I am on stage in a pastoral way and I can tell some sort of a story or a narrative where I'm in a driving incident and I'm not happy and I'm angry and I want to flip the bird at the person next to me in the right appropriate fashion. Everyone sitting in the crowd has experienced that. Right. And so now we're, now they feel like we're speaking eye to eye, not up here to down here. And so that then I look at that as it allows me a space then that I've opened up to be able to speak into that moment because I'm not speaking into. There are a lot of pastors who present a very clean life and they're either not telling the truth or they're boring as heck. And so, you know, I want to give them enough truth. Right. I mean, I don't want to, you know, there's certain things that are just not appropriate. Right. But there's a level of like, I can relate to that, the level of authenticity around that. I use the term self deprecating. I think part of my communication skill that I developed early was the ability to self deprecate that people appreciate. Right. Like, okay, I don't take myself that seriously. And here's what I experienced this week and here's how it relates to the conversation we're having.

And Lee, I took notes. I was watching your sermon on Inside Out a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, I took notes.

Uh, oh, no, I, I literally. Kid you not. I got choked up and I was tearing by the end, really.

Okay.

Sincerely. And I loved how you actually in that sit. I'd never seen you do a sermon before where you're on location. So Mark, he filmed it in San Francisco while he was talking about Inside out when he was talking about Riley the 11 year old and you know, Inside Out.

Oh, the cartoon.

The animated movie. Movie, yeah.

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

It's not a cartoon. We call it animation. Animated fields.

I apologize.

Yes.

Pixar animated film.

We know it's a cartoon, but it's sophisticated now. Okay.

And you talked about the, you know, stirring up Emotions like in Toy Story, Cars, Ants, all these movies. And I just think it's a powerful thing to relate to and pass on to presenters and pastors that like Pixar does it at another level. But there's something that we can all take, which is that emotion, that relatability of the emotion, which is kind of what you were talking about just a second ago when you're authentically telling us, look, you wanted to flip somebody off. That emotion is the connecting part. We don't need to know whether you did or not, but.

Right. It relates, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I loved it. It was one of my favorites. And I realized you can't put that one up because it used clips.

Yes. I have ways of getting that to you, Darren. But yes, it did not post because of the copyright stuff.

Sure.

So yeah, basically what we do. And Darren, I'll let you look at your notes there for a second. But basically one of the things that there's a number of church that are doing it now, you got to be a little careful with it because it can get, it can get cliche and sort of. But where I, where I love it is the idea of like all truth is God's truth. Right. We would believe if it's literally true, then it's got to be connected to the one truth. And so what we're trying to do is take the art of modern film, be it animation or other films, and communicate within that film the truths that are coming out from a biblical perspective. And people love it because they don't see the whole film, but they get enough context that they see if we do it right. They tend to see the film through a different filter than maybe they saw it at their initial watch. That's the communication art, by the way, Darren, because a lot of us watch films, like you could watch Gladiator, the new one, right. And you could talk about the hero always wins and evil and like there's very low hanging fruit, which is fine. Where I like to push in is to go, what is it behind there that people aren't necessarily directly connecting? Right. So like an inside out, it was the idea that all the emotions are actually powerful and that joy and sadness need to integrate together, that the goal of life is not just joy, but that sadness has a key role in our life to play and that in some ways joy is produced by our, our acceptance of sadness. Right. So think about when someone passes away. There's a level of mourning and sadness, but also there's kind of a little bit of joy mixed in There when you think about the experiences you had with that person and the life that they lived. And so it's this weird, almost mysterious, sounds, biblical mixture of things that was fun to explore in that movie. And it's easy to do too, Darren, because when people are watching the movie and they're drawn in, it's a funny experience. Because you want to see more of the movie. Right. Because you were watching like show me the next thing. Right. And then there's Lee talking. But it's a fun journey to take people on and I think it is sort of a lesson in communication. And how do you. How do you do that? Right. In a good way. Yeah.

One of our favorite coaches that we work with, his name is Michael Hague and he works with a lot of big time movie stars writing their scripts and helping them with their story. And one of the things he taught Mark and me was the purpose of story is to elicit emotion.

That's good.

And if you don't elicit emotion, it just means you haven't found the whole story yet. And trying to get pastors and presenters to really get that like a story is a story, but unless there's emotion, it's never going to be unforgettable. Like the unforgettable factor, the relatable factor is what gets us to connect to it. And Mark, questions?

Oh, no, no, I.

Okay.

The use, the use of film is a lot of people now. Not a lot, but several presenters now. Lee will use Darren video clips, they'll use images, they'll use visual aids. 21st century tech is part of who we are. Was it difficult for you or do you see it difficult for more seasoned pastors to adopt and adapt technology as part of their presentation package and style?

I'll talk to both ends, so make sure I do. Let me talk to the question you asked around. The more seasoned communicators. Love the way you put that. The more seasoned communicators, I would. My answer would be yes. I think that the more. The wiser ones will continue to lean into the availability of the technology that is there. Right. Some will dig their feet in. Right. And. And not. But there are things that, especially in the preparation process which can be very time consuming and grinding. I think some of the modern technology that's there, you know, there's a lot of conversation around AI and with the use of AI and all of that, some of that is going to be very useful in the efficiency of preparation. Then there's also the use of technology in the actual presentation itself. Right. I think that it's a mistake in our visual tactile world to not leverage that to a certain extent as you can to visually come alongside what you are communicating. Right. The visuals are important. One warning I would give to the more seasoned guys out there is you can also fall into the trap of using technology poorly, which is almost worse than not using it at all. So it's the guys who go, man, I got to use technology. And then you watch it and you're like, that's not good. Or that's distracting. And that's. That's unfortunate. And so, you know, to use technology well is good. Like, we use a teaching screen. A lot of pastors do now. That's not new. But we always are fighting the idea of how do we allow this teaching screen, the visuals that we're pointing at, et cetera, to not be a distraction, but to be an accompaniment of what we're saying. Right. To the younger guys, I would say technology can be a crutch. So to the older guys, it can be a distraction. To the younger guys, it can be a crutch where you just. You just throw technology all over the place and you're not really. At the end of the day, people like, huh, I was a little stimulated. I saw some things, but I just went to lunch, and I don't really know what they said. I just saw a lot of things, and there was a lot of that going on. So that would be. That would be the thing. I have a couple of guys on our team that we work with that are emerging communicators. And one of the things we have to always guard against is I've got one guy who. And I can be this guy, too, who really loves props. Really, really loves to have something, you know, a prop there that they're sitting that at some point, and I can be that guy. I'm speaking here in a couple weeks, and there's a prop involved, but I've always wanted to be careful that I didn't become prop guy right to where the crutch is. I got to have a prop. I got to have a prop. I got to have a prop. Because at some point, I.

That's.

That's. That's making up for some lacking that needs to be there. And so I always want the prop to be complimentary, not. Not. Oh, there's. There's Lee. He's got to know. Wonder what prop he's going to have today. You know, like, what's, you know, what, What. What lesson is he going to have. So anyway, I think that's really in the way of technology. I think that's probably the different generations handle it a little bit differently. That's brilliant.

And Mark, that's why I knew I just get Lee to show up and there'd be some wisdom spilling out. So thank you. And when it comes to props, one of the things Mark and I teach is the point is to emphasize a point, not to distract. Because we've seen a lot of people, even in the world championship, they use a prop and it's like. And, you know, one guy had like a pink thong, and he was a guy, and he put it on over. Yeah, it's funny.

He was trying to make a splash, get everybody's attention, and then he throws.

It on the ground. And then everybody's looking at this pink thong on a black stage. And you, like, it becomes an attraction.

You can't look away.

Yeah. So now, selfishly, Lee, I was so blown away by the fact that you went to San Francisco and filmed that it was not a green screen. And I was just, selfishly, why'd you put in that much effort? I was just very impressed.

It's good. So the. The genre that we're doing, as I mentioned a moment ago, there are other churches that are executing it in different ways. For example, some churches will do a very similar format that you saw, Darren, but they will do it live. So, like, the parts where I was speaking would have been live on stage, and then there would have been a cutaway to the screens. We found that to clunky and distracting and not as smooth. Let me use this word. Not as immersive as we like. Right. And so for us, we felt like when we can get on location somewhere, not always involving flying somewhere, but if we could. So we've done them in the past where we did Top Gun. And so we go out to Nellis Air Force Base here in Vegas, and we get a spot where there's some fighter planes and we. It just. It's immersive. And what people really love is that when the. When we go to the opening and you know this Darren, right. The music plays of whatever there is. It's like they're in it and they're watching this thing for 30 to 35 minutes, and their eyes are on it and they are not coming out of it. And so when we talked about it, I mean, at the end of the day, there's an roi, right? There's a return on investment. And we said, you know what? I'll tell you a funny Story. So we said, you know what, we can fly to San Francisco in the morning, we can go film it in a few hours, and we can fly back. And It'll cost us $700 to fly myself and two videographers there. And it'll be well worth it because in our case, to scale, thousands of people are going to see it. And so am I going to do that, or am I going to stand on stage with the LED wall behind me with a. With the Golden Gate Bridge, you know, and so that little extra 10%, we call it. We call that the last 10% made a difference to you, right? The funny part is when we looked at flights, and this is a little bit of a tangent, but you'll appreciate it. We first flight in to San Francisco, SFO landed at like 10:30. This was fine. You know, so we land, we rent a car, we have gear, we get in, we got to drive to the Golden Gate Bridge to that area, get to a spot that we thought would be fine. Again, you don't know, 45 minutes. So we get to the spot at about 12:30. Well, now reality is the. The flight we needed, the last non stop flight, was at 4:30 out. Oh, wow. So we're literally now, you know, guys, we. We have like an hour and a half, maybe two hours to film this thing at this point before we have to turn around and go back to the airport to fly home. So we were. We were under the gun a little bit to get that done, but it ended up working out because I'd rather spend less time traveling, as, you know, I travel a ton, so I was not interested in hanging out in San Francisco. So it did work out. And we were able to get it in the can. Keeping in mind that I think it was about 35 minutes, Darren, and so probably 18 of that was me, you know, so you're really filming about 15 to 18 minutes of content. And so we were able to do that, and I think we did it in a couple locations as well.

Yeah, yeah. I was impressed. There was like. At first I was like, is that green screen? I was like, no, that's.

It was not green screen. I know it looked like it a little bit.

And then you went to the neighborhood and I was like, oh, wow. I was. I was blown away. All right, so my one question real.

Quick, Darren, real quick for those who are listening who may not have seen the film. I'm trying to figure out, where did he go? What's behind him? Just a little. Just a little bit of clarity for Those who are wondering, I'm not quite seeing what they're talking about, Lee.

Yeah, so basically the film takes place in San Francisco. So every time we do one of these, we do four or five times a year, mostly in the summer, we think, okay, what's a location that we communicate and connect to the film? And so really San Francisco was a primary character in the movie. And so we thought, based on, again, the previous conversation, the investment of time to get us there and to film it was well worth it. And so we did the segments. That was my communication explaining the movie truths along the way. We filmed those and then they were interspliced with the appropriate clips to create a 30 to 35 minute holistic immersive sermon. It really is a sermon. It's just presented in a, in a visual context.

I must say, Lee, we often say to our clients when telling a story, don't just tell us, take us. You just took us to a new level, my friend.

So they literally took us there. We appreciate that. Yep, that's it.

And so my question, so if you're listening to this, they use clips from the movie as well as bible passages. Psalms 139, John 15, 11, Mark 9, 19. So he connected it to the biblical truth that he was getting out there. It wasn't just a movie for the sake of a movie, but it was about emotions. Like Jesus literally flipping tables. He had emotions. Guess what? We're normal. Even if we're Christian, we can still have emotions. That doesn't make us non Christians. How we, how we process it, how we handle it. So my, my one question is, how did you know? And for anybody presenting, whether it's a pastor or presenter, I'm a video clip guy. I go crazy minor all things that I've seen and done and trying to get a point across. However, how did you know, like, which clips of the movie to use and like, how much where it wasn't too much movie, right?

Yeah, there's a, there's a level of. That's the prep. Right. So the part you guys often talk about in your podcast world and in your coaching world is like the preparation is a large percentage of the, of the deal, especially as people become more seasoned communicators. I would actually say for me, as a seasoned communicator, it's dangerous because I can get away with things now. Like, if I had to get up and talk in front of people, that doesn't intimidate me anymore. And I can BS it pretty well now. And that's a Good and a bad thing. Because now it can hijack the right amount of preparation and thought that I can put into it. So with the inside out, it's like the movie is so powerful in and of itself. So the key was, how do I. How do I. What do I want to talk about? Context wise, Darren, it's multiple watches of the movie, for sure, right? It's like sitting there with that in mind and kind of going, okay, that's an important piece. So you're trying to set enough context to start with. And then there's. You're basically kind of putting together different timeline markers that would tell the complete story. But you don't have time for an hour and a half movie, right? So every movie has important stuff that just is not relevant to the primary things. So we highlighted mostly the parts that really told the story of Riley's emotional journey because of her moving and how her feelings interacted to get her to that journey at the end. And so that really drove some of the clips and the ones that we picked as far as how that worked. And so I like to say my content drove the clips. I don't think you can separate the two. I think they're so intertwined of like, okay, this clip's coming. I would say there was a funny thing that happened when I watched it back. And Mark, there was part of me. There was a couple times where I came out of clips and if I had to do it again, I would have done a better job of transitioning from the clip. To me, I think there was a. Because we don't have the clips when I'm filming, I'm literally just doing my parts. It's almost like those parts are going to get added later. And I think I probably would have loved a second shot at doing a better job of knowing what people had just watched. I don't think I ignored it. I don't think I ignored it, but I would have loved to maybe in the moment, captured the emotion that Darren, with tears in his eyes, was feeling a little bit better. Because when I'm standing there in San Francisco, I'm disconnected from what Darren just watched a little bit. I mean, I know it intellectually, but I didn't just watch it. I probably should have stood there and watched the clip for five minutes and then stood up and looked at the camera. Probably in the future would have been a good strategy because I think there was probably a. And Darren, he had a great experience, so it's fine. But firstly, I would have loved to amp up my Emotional connection to the cliff a little better. That would have been my critique of myself in that.

And I actually took a note. I was impressed that you matched your own energy when you change locations. Because I'm like, in front of that, and if it was me sometimes I might be overly animated in one clip and then, you know, different energy level. But I was like, he matched it. I'm impressed.

Well, good. I appreciate it. I think the ability to critique ourselves is pretty important. I know you guys would agree, right? Yeah.

And do you teach? I know you work helping develop pastors, not necessarily in the delivery of sermons, but that's still a part of it. What are, like, some of the mistakes that you see them make?

I think. I think partly. I think pastors will tend to lean out of narrative and more into theology as an end and of itself. Right.

So.

And I can be guilty of that. In other words, I might be reading something that really resonates with me, like something deep and thick, and it's just great. Right. The problem is it's resonating with me because I'm sitting with a cup of coffee and I'm in the mode where, like, it just jumps off the page and it's contextually relevant to whatever's going on with me. That doesn't necessarily can, but I need to have an appropriate filter to go. When I'm standing there in front of thousands of people, is it actually going to translate the way it translated to me at my kitchen table? And a lot of times it doesn't. And it's like, I should have cut that, not because it's not brilliant, but because it just didn't have the same punch as it felt to me. And I think that's a hard. I think for a lot of guys, that's a hard discipline to go. What's the difference between what resonates with me and what resonates holistically? And there's interplay, for sure, but sometimes we've got to be honest enough to go that. That quote. I'm just throwing it up there because I think it's great, but it really doesn't move the ball at all in the. In what I'm trying to communicate. And I. I'm still learning that. So I'm still learning because sometimes it'll slip in where I'm like, no, this is just so good. People need to hear this, you know, and they don't. Because they don't. Yeah. Just. It just blows by them, you know, because backstairs. And I think part of it Is because communication as an audible thing is different than when you're reading something on the page and you're interacting. You're rereading it a hundred times, Right. And I'm reading it once to you out loud, and it's like, gone. And that's happening in the same way. Yeah. I'll have this great. There's this great poem I love to read where it's a William Yates poem, and he talks about the idea of now. The last line is something like, now may I wither into the truth. You know, it's this idea of my life. And now I'm. I'm at the point where I'm. And it's just such a great thing. And every time I use it, I think people are just staring at me, like, what the heck's he's saying? You know, I'm like, no, this is amazing. Like, you got to get it. And they just don't get it. Because it's the kind of poetic line that you have to sit in it. You got to sit in it a little bit, and you got to be like, okay, what is it? Right. And so it's. It's. I'm learning. I'm still learning.

And my one pet peeve, I asked Shane this when he was with us too. My one pet peeve when I have worked with pastors is when I had a pastor say to me when I talk about preparation, and he's like, well, I don't need to prepare. The Holy Spirit will speak through me. And I'm like, oh, God, I've listened to your. Some of your sermons.

The Holy Spirit's not speaking. The Holy Spirit went to. Went to brunch. That's what the Holy Spirit did.

I was like, you know, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can help you prepare, too, you know?

Correct.

I'm saying, lee, did he go to Chipotle? The Holy Spirit, did he go to Chipotle?

He might have chipotle or ramen. I'm a big ramen noodle guy. So he probably went and had some ramen or something. But, yeah, he was out.

We got to wrap things up. We really appreciate your time. I have to show you this one short clip that Mark and I use a lot. We were over in Ukraine, and the way we pick clips is we test them. See, that's the one advantage we get as presenters. We can do the same presentation and let it evolve. You have to do a new one every time you present, which I could never do that. That's when Mark and I were in Ukraine. And this was long before all this stuff happened over there. The event planner brought us in to talk to some executives. And this woman's name is Alona, and she didn't speak English. But Mark, when I tell a story about him, I said, if you don't know Mark, he stands about 6 foot 2. He has a heart of gold. He's a native of Jamaica, and he's got this beautiful, booming laugh like the guy from the old 7Up commercial. And when I do that, this woman who doesn't speak English, she's the event planner, she's sitting in the audience, she starts cracking up. And I started realizing that laughter connects us all. Laughter is the language. And so we were setting up the next morning, doing another presentation, and I captured this moment.

You want to hear?

Let's hear your laugh.

No, let her hear alone aloud. Let her laugh alone.

Let Alola laugh alone. That's great.

I love that.

That is so awesome. Made my night wonderful.

And so we try to just train people that it's just short enough. It's like eight seconds long, but it works. The audience reacts, and that helps make our point stick. So final question for you. Well, one, if somebody wants to ask for your guidance, follow you where. Where can they find you?

Yeah. So I'll just give you my email. It's just Lee atthe crossing LV.com. i also. I spend most of my time here, but I also work with an organization called the Grow Mentum Group that I help lead that works mostly strategically with churches all across the country, Helping them align strategically, communications a part of that, and helping them kind of, you know, accomplish their. Their mission. And so if they reach out to me at any of those email addresses, if they've got questions or they're like, what the heck is at the movies thing? Or any of that stuff, I would be glad to respond. So I appreciate being with you guys. Thanks for having me.

So it's Lee L. E at the Crossing LV as in Las Vegas dot com.

That's correct.

Mark, as you gather your notes, my final question is, Lee, if somebody came to you, a pastor, and he's really eager, or she's really eager, and they really want to be unforgettable. They care about their delivery. What advice would you give them?

They want to be unforgettable. I would say watch people that you would love to be like. Let me say this. Find people that resonate with you stylistically. Okay. Because they're different styles. So you need to find a style that resonates with your. Either your style as it is now or what you would desire your style. Style to be. And then secondly, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch. Right. And. And allow that to absorb some of the techniques that they are using. Right. And so example would be like, I loved Tim Keller. He was a great. A communicator in New York City. I do not speak like Tim Keller. So when I listen to Tim Keller, I'm listening for me, because there's nothing Tim Keller does that's gonna mimic what I'm gonna do. Okay. And that's okay. It's just. It's a different style now. There are guys out there that are Tim Keller ish and they should absorb Tim Keller all day. Right. I had to find people that resonate with me. Right. And so for me, it's the rich balochis of the world. It's the Andy Stanley's of the world. It's the. Yeah. There's other names of guys that, you know that I will listen to, both for personal growth, but also because their style resonates with me and I pick up on things that they're doing that will help me in the future.

I think I am second. I think that was one of Tim's series from his church.

Yeah, probably is. Yep.

So, Mark, what do you got? What are the highlights?

Well, some words of wisdom and the first one kind of got me to thinking and I wrote down, what's your training ground? And you mentioned that talking about those you began with young people and then went on to adults. And many of us don't realize we have a chance to get training with a different audience that we want to meet in the first place. So I'm thinking, who can I talk with to get experience to train myself in? So here we go. Communication is more than structure and what's on the page.

True.

Develop your own personal voice and style. And remember that communication is a byproduct of an individual's character. Don't be an actor and don't perform. Inspire. Avoid speaking down. Speak eye to eye. Appreciate when you self depreciate. Use technology well and wisely. Tech should accompany and not distract and avoid using it as a crutch. Beware of going overboard on props and be aware of what resonates with your audience. If you're emerging, find a speaker whose style is like yours. Watch, listen and learn.

Nice.

Thanks for being here with us. Least sincerely privileged to work with a guy that I look up to. Thank you so much. If Mark and I can help or you know, any place that we can help. We'd love to working with pastors as well, but we'll see you on Sunday. Thanks for listening.

Thanks everybody. Appreciate it.

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