Ep. 287 ARE YOU TOO CLOSE?

Hold on.

Do that again. Recording in progress. Hey, hey, hey, Mark, easy.

What?

You're too close. Back up. It's not that I don't want to count your nose hairs, however. Yeah, I mean, you're a handsome man, but that close. Yeah.

No, Darren, for our viewers, our listeners who aren't seeing the video. Yeah, I kind of had my nostrils in the camera just now and Darren says I was too close. But. But here's a question. At times, are you too close?

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcast with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas. Let's dive right in.

Hey there, Mark. We just got off a coaching call with one of our CEOs executives that we're working with out of Malta. And, and this was fascinating too. Cause he got it, he said it. We had him write out story version 1.0, write out the big block of clay, which we need to do. Sometimes people just try and write a seven minute speech or a six minute speech or a five minute speech, and they just try and write that. The challenge is you're too close. You're too close. There's some key elements that you will miss if you don't take the time to give us the big block of clay or any qualified coach, give them the big block of clay. Because even Mark in his longer version, there were a couple places that you said, hey, let's tell us a little bit more about that moment. And he gave us some great background insight that was not in his version. And that's one of the big challenges a lot of presenters have, myself included, that we're too close to our own story. We missed the gold. And. And because it's our story, the whole thing is emotional to us. Each moment is emotional to us. But that emotion may not be connected to the point when we're driving home. The point of a story like Aesop and his fable, the point is that the audience walks away with that message. This is not about you. It's about how you help the audience. And Mark, we see this again and again. I need the reminder on occasion, but when I remember, I'm like, okay, I gotta have you look at my story. Or Michael Davis or Jennifer Leone look at My story, because I'm too close.

And there's one other dimension to that, Darren, you mentioned about having. It's all emotional to us. And in a strange way, because it's all emotional to us, it can become almost mundane to us. I often say one man's mundane is another man's magnificence. And I don't mean man as in male, only it's mankind. So please, nobody yell at me for this. But here's the point. We're so close to our story, we're so used to our story that we can talk about our story and not think twice. What's fascinating is to you, it's my story, it's mundane. But to someone who was just hearing from you for the first time, who is just meeting you, who is just becoming familiar with your story, they may end up wide eyed and amazed. And I've often said it on this podcast and in our trainings, Darren, I can be guilty of that. I mean, think about this. How often do we read our own bio? I mean really stop and read our own bio as if we were a member of the audience reading it for the first time. So I read Mark Brown migrated to the USA at the age of 18 with $40 in his pocket and a dream for a better life. Here's the weird part. If I read that about somebody else, I want to know what happened. It's mine, I'm used to it. Yeah, that's it. And so often we have presenters, we have clients, we have students of ours who will begin to tell a story and they'll say, yeah, but you know, I was there for like six months, but it was no big deal. Wait, wait, you were out in a desert for like six months in a camp? What happened there? But because it's so commonplace to us, we don't realize that we're so close to it. We don't see the colors, we don't see the vibrance, we don't see the nuance, we don't see what's going on. This might sound kind of silly, but I saw a photograph pop up in my memories on my Android phone, on my OneDrive, was a picture of a beautiful yellow flower. It's just lovely. I kind of had a close up picture of the flower and it was peeking up its way through some snow. The flower is beautiful, it's yellow, the petals are vibrant, it's lovely. But when I pull back and I realize one single yellow flower in a garden that's covered by snow, I begin to wonder how in the world. Did one flower survive with all that ice, all that snow around it? And pulling back to a higher level, I see the bigger picture. It becomes that much more magnificent. So here's a question for your friends. How often do you pull back in your own stories? View it as if you were hearing it for the first time, as if you were a member of your audience. And if you did, what might you find that you did not think was there? I offer a challenge. Your most recent story, you look at it again as if you were in the audience. If necessary, tell the story on video and watch it from the audience's perspective. And you might see, Wait, I could have said more about that because you were just too close.

Yeah, Mark. And you say one man's magnificent and another man's mundane. There's also a flip side to that. When it's our own story, we think everything is magnificent.

Sometimes we do. Yes.

But to the audience, there's a lot that's mundane. And that's just it. We're too close. We don't know what is interesting and intriguing to the audience. Now, you and I as coaches, we've developed an eye and a sense for what truly could be interesting. This is what we do. This is the perspective that we've been developing for years of coaching. That's the average person. They might know what's interesting when they hear it themselves, but not get what's interesting to the audience.

Ah, that's true. What is interesting to the audience, that's a good question to ask, is, what did Trip say about the topic of a speech? It's important that it is of interest to the audience. Right. And if we can understand from the audience's perspective and see through their eyes, it could really transform what we provide and how we deliver it. Because there are nuances to every story. And you might be more interesting than you think. Or less interesting than you think, depending on your perspective.

Yes, and yes. That's why it's so important to have a coach, whoever that coach might be. And so, number one, have a coach. B, number two, test it out. Test it out and ask the audience what is interesting. And Mark, when I was working on my speech, and still to this day, I ask a few questions of my audience, even if I'm doing a quote, unquote, practice speech, which there's no such thing because I have real, live people in front of me. But even if I'm doing a speech with preparation to get feedback, I want to know what the audience is thinking. So I asked them what Made you think. What made you think? Number one. Number two, what inspired you? And when I was working on my championship speech, it kept going back to the mom and dad story. Really? I didn't. I didn't think that was magnificent. But almost everyone who I got feedback from, I would say 80% of the audience mentioned that. So here's the key. I handed out paper, if you remember that far back. Not quite bamboo, but paper. You have everybody at the same time, so they're not influenced by each other, writing down what, you know, what captured them. So what was. What made you think and what inspired you? And then what was unclear? I should add a question. You know, they wouldn't understand the question. But if we can see what was so interesting, it sends them off on a tangent. That needs to go. It was so interesting. Sends them off on a tangent. And we'll mention name Mark. But one of the CEOs we were talked. Just talking to on a call, he was born with six fingers on both hands. And we said. And it was in his video intro from his mother. And that's gotta go. Because that sends the audience's brain off on a tangent. And some of them are gonna be walking up to him now, looking at his hands, wanting to know, well, how'd you handle that? And I was just like, for the. Oh, man.

I had to do one bad point. It's been a while, Gareth. How did you handle. Handle. Anyway, go ahead.

All right. I don't have the sound effects ready.

Okay, I'll take that one.

But seriously, it will be. It's off topic, it's interesting for the wrong purpose of this setup. So it's part of an introduction. But even if it was in the middle of his speech, we would have him take it out. Unless that tied in to a challenge, a conflict. It got worse. Or the path to his outcome and transformation. It's got to relate to one of those ideas, one of those insights. The structure of that story. Or his keynote. If it was a keynote. We're just talking about story coaching now, but if it was part of his keynote, if it was somehow relevant to the big picture, to the outcome, to the transformation or the challenge, that then it's relevant. If it's not, it could be interesting for the wrong reasons.

A couple thoughts on that, Darren. One, we can be too close. We can be so close to our favorite stories and too close to our favorite stories, we not only fail to see the relevance, but we may fail to see it's not important to that audience at that time for that presentation, it's my favorite. I love this story and I'm so close to it. I don't realize as much as I love it today, that audience doesn't need it. That's an ouch. But I have to be honest about that. Sometimes our favorite stories are not the most important or best or most appropriate for the audience, but because we're so close to it and we love it so much, we fail to realize our perspective has shifted. We're now embracing what we want and not giving the audience what they need. That's important. And I want to kind of poke you in the eye here, Darren, because 24 years ago, when you and I worked together, you were so close to the story of your failure, you didn't think it was important enough. And when I asked you, you're like, yeah, I told this joke about this thing and it was as if you wanted to throw it away. But when I said, no, tell it to me. And I went, that's it. You're like, what? But you were so close to that failure story. You lived it. You had suffered through it. Having to go back home, live with your parents. You hadn't thought that would be significant for the audience. But as I said. You said, was it related to your topic? It was dead on perfect. It was the perfect story to support your message about getting back up and taking that step after the ouch. But time, it wasn't even in your original draft because you were so close to it. So, friends, what are we saying to you? You may have gold, but you're so close, you fail to see significance. And conversely, you may be so close to it, you believe it's always going to be significant. But you don't always tell your signature story. You've got to find the ones that are important for your audience, which is why taking a step back, getting a big picture look can be so helpful, can be so significant, and can be indeed a very productive as well.

Yeah, Mark, I'm going to push back on you. You said you may have some gold. I believe they do have some gold. If you're listening to this, there's some gold in your life that you're not even thinking of. You don't see its importance. You don't think of it as significant. I get that Mark just gave you an example, but we're telling you, in this is my opinion, not the opinion of Mark Brown, Toastmasters International or the National Speakers association, or the Global Federation. This is my opinion. I believe that most presenters will never get the impact that is truly inside them because they don't get the feedback or the coaching that they need.

Wow.

I honestly believe that and I live that. That's why I know that Mark. There's a real estate investor gentleman in town, superstar rock star. He's so good, naturally. And he's always been good, naturally. And I sat and listened to him and I was like, yeah, no dialogue. He said the I want to share with you thing, like there was three. And I wrote down the notes and I'm meeting with him to tell him about it. Now here's a guy who could buy and sell me and he doesn't need it. But I convinced him to sit down with me because I truly believe, whether it's his real estate investing or his work with the God's kingdom, that I could truly help him. So I, I pleaded with him, I said, just give me nine minutes. That's all I asked for, was nine minutes. But the reason is that he's so naturally good. But there's a couple of blind spots. Yeah, of course there would be if you were never formally trained by, you know, world class coach. He is great. He's great on his own. However, there's a few things that boom. If he adjusted these things. Excuse me, Patricia. These insights, if he had them, I think it would be even better and more unforgettable.

Just today, Darren, we were, we had a client in Australia, we were coaching and I vividly recall him asking us for our opinion on one particular line. In his speech. You recall what he said? He said, guys, I'm too close to it. I need to know what you see. He literally said, guys, I am too close to it. I, I need to get your opinion. Highly coachable, very credible, Amazing story. But his mindset is I'm too close. Let me ask the guys who are the pros to give me their opinion. And we ended that coaching session. He seemed very pleased with the final product. He's going to work on his talk and we're excited about what he's going to share with the audience in a couple of weeks. But just the mindset that says, you know what, I'm too close. What do you think? There's a question, are you willing to ask someone who is qualified that same question are you willing to ask, hey, I'm too close, does that sound right? When you collaborate with the right people, get the right kind of coaching, qualified coaching, you can elevate the quality of what you present and you'll understand what it means to be too close. We urge you to Think about the sources of your information, your direction, your inspiration because it can really help you elevate your presentation.

Yeah, Mark, as we record this too, it's story jam time or excuse me, last story standing contest in NSA and Toastmasters competition. There was someone who is in last story standing and sent it to me to look at one of the stories and the person is a great presenter. Done amazing things with business far beyond what I've achieved. However. Oh my gosh. The story had such potential and I had some great ideas but I found.

That yeah, not everyone is open to ideas and it happens. Okay, But I want to believe our listeners and viewers are coachable and they'll find ways to identify when they are too close. Pull back to a higher perspective and see the big picture and then find other parts of the picture that need to be developed to be mined. That can really give the audience not just a good presentation of a great story, but an unforgettable experience.

The audience deserves your best and no one becomes great alone. Every sports team doesn't just have one coach, has several. You join the service, first thing they do is send you to basic training. You become a first responder, first thing they do is train you. You become a doctor, first thing you do is you have to go to school for it. With a speaker, they hand you a microphone. The problem is, yeah, and hey, some people have some natural talents. But truly, please understand, whether it's Mark and me or someone else, please get some coaching. Every week we do what's called a story dig in stage time where people just come with an idea. We have never, as far as I know, Mark never failed to find so much more than the person who had the experience themselves would have ever found on their own. We do this every week. If you'd like to experience that, hey, check out getaspeakingcoach.com or join stage Time and join us on one of our weekly calls. Because you two just like me, just like Mark. We're too close. See you next week.

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