Ep. 295 “NARRA-LOG?”

Hey there, Mark Brown Naralog. What? What is that?

That's a good question. That's a good question. And we hope to answer that. For those of you particularly who are concerned about how well your speech can flow and finding the right balance between two key components, let's do this.

Anyone can give a presentation few deliver. Unforgettable. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown. Mark Brown.

Your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. AHAs. Let's dive right in.

All right, Mark, so let's, let's, let's set the tone first. This is a brand new word we just coined, so I'm going to see if we can reach out and get a trademark on this, but let's set the tone for it. So when I first started working with you, I had the problem that all my stories were told in narration, right? And so they were told in past tense. So there was no emotional connection or very little emotional connection in the moment. So. So one of the principles that we teach at stage time and when we, when we duo coach with our clients, we try to get them to understand the value of dialogue and the importance of it, because that's where the emotional connection happens. So dialogue. So we go from 100% narration to dialogue. And now we have the pivot has happened where we start over here we go to add some dialogue, but they keep going and then it becomes a stage play. So we had one of our CEO clients that we were working with. It was a little too much back and forth and hey, it's our job to notice this. And how do we make it better? How do we make it better? So we, we said, okay, we gotta bring you back in the middle. So there is some dialogue, but not too much dialogue. We don't want to have a stage play. So in talking to him, we just popped out just a few minutes ago, narrow we narration to set up the dialogue and maybe some narration after the dialogue. We look for where the key emotional shift is because we want that dialogue so we can see a shift in character, but we don't want left and person one and person two, a f. A son, the son, the father. And we don't want to turn it into a stage play. So we've got to kind of reel in the dialogue because Some people, like me, guilty, like to do a little too much dialogue. So it's the right amount. So we coined the phrase narrow log.

And it's interesting, when he first told him, he said, oh, I think of a narrow log. And of course, me being the corny person that I am, I say, yes, it's a great narrow way to bridge the gap between the narrative.

I gotta get my sound effects going.

But no, his brain envisioned a narrow log. So I'm going to run with that for a second. Okay, you've got, on one end of the spectrum, you've got the narrative, the story that you tell. But very often, if the story that we tell is always in narration, we find ourselves in a place where we are telling the story. The audience sits back and they're hearing it, and they're hearing it and they're hearing it and they're. And there is no emotional connection for them. Conversely, on the other end is this dialogue. It happens, it's in the scene, it's real time, it's emotional. And if you have been around us for any length of time, you'll know that. Darren talks about props almost overtaking a presentation. And what happens is with dialogue becoming excessive, as Darren said earlier, it can almost feel like you're at a stage play and seeing two characters go at it and even the most insignificant of communication becomes a dialogue. So on the other end you're like, wait, I thought I was going to get a presentation that was a speech. So we have this gap between the narrative and the dialogue. But if you take that narrow log that comprises components of both the narrative and the dialogue, you might do what I call find the right balance by reeling in the dialogue, by modifying narrative, we can find the right balance. And that's one way you can become unforgettable. Because now you don't just give a speech or reenact the stage play, you truly give the audience an experience where they can feel invested. But the trick is, here's a Mark Brown isn't. For those who are new to us, when you are selective, you are effective. And to build and find that narrow log requires a significant degree of being selective. It's not done haphazardly or flippantly or as some would say, willy nilly. This really is part of the work that good presenters put in to deliver a well rounded presentation that the audience can enjoy, connect with and relate to all at the same time. So I guess the corny question would be, how narrow is your log and do you need a narrow log? I'M sorry, Darren, I can't help it. But you said reel in the dialog. I'm going to make a note of that.

Oh, boy. Yeah. So we're looking for that niche, that mix. As Mark says, when you are selective, you're effective. So we look at the story. What needs to be set up? What is the emotional moment we need to witness? And then maybe there's some aftermath that we can also narrate. And we don't want to have some dialogue. So we don't want to narrate. Have some dialogue. Narrate, have some dialogue. Narrate, have some dialogue. We don't want that. We're looking for the key moment where there's maybe there's always an exception. We always find somebody who does it beautifully. And it's outside of the suggestion, outside of the. The rule, if you will. It is the fact that we want to have two or three back and forth switches from one character to another. Two or three, tops. Tops. Again, there could always be an exception to the rule, but let's just say if there's more than two or three, we need to pull it back if there's just one. And here's the key, you can't just have one person say something.

Right?

Isn't that a lot of the reaction? Now, the other character doesn't have to necessarily say something, but they must react. We just were working with this CEO and. And he had a big diagnosis and then there was no reaction. And then the next day and it's like, wait, what? So we need that reaction at least. So it might not be dialogue back and forth, but it might be dialogue reaction. Sometimes that's enough. Sometimes we got to go back and forth. Mark, what's your thoughts?

Yeah, I agree with that. And I said earlier, that is part of the process whereby good, really good presenters work at this. And it does require some work. We recommend to our clients, first of all, create a script. Because when you have a script to work with, you can't edit. Darren says, what you don't write down. And we talk about how to create a quick script without having to write for two or three hours. I don't want to belabor that point. What I do want us to do is to create a script, first of all. And you can simply narrate into a tool like Audio Pen or use a dictate function in Microsoft Word and just tell the story. You'll get an instant transcript that way. But we recommend you go through your script and look for those key moments where something Shifts, something happens, and aha takes place. The voice of wisdom or the guru delivers something meaningful to the hero or the main character. And the guru need not be a human being, but if it is, it's kind of good idea to have that person actually say the words. It is a key character who may play a small but significant role in the presentation. We want to hear that character speak. You got this word of wisdom. Who said it? Well, it was my grandmother. Well, what did she say? She told me about going down the street. No, no, what did she say? Ah, that's where we get her words delivered in her voice that hits you. And as Darren says, then we have to find out, what was the reaction? Did you respond to your grandmother? What did you say? How did it make you feel? But the moment, the audience now witnesses that interaction, they're engaged with the emotion of the moment. And that's where dialogue can be very, very significantly helpful. There are times narration is better because it helps to move the story along in a certain way. And we don't need to have every single human interaction recorded in conversation. If you happen to see someone down the street, you don't need to say, and I said, hi, how's your day going? It's wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you. That does not advance your story moving forward. So be again, by being selective, you can be effective, but it does take work. It takes going through that script line by line. Ooh, I should use dialogue there. Oh, that's too much. And quite frankly, we were really impressed because our client actually told us he realized he had too much drama dialogue. We didn't tell him. We were going to tell him. We were going to tell him, but he told us, I watched my video, and you know what? It's too much.

And then same client, his wife backed him up.

I didn't like it. You said. But the point being, because he. I got to tell you, we really appreciate the particular client because he is a sponge, an eager listener, eager learner. And he said, I obsessed myself, and I realized I had too much drama. It was not enough of me just telling the story. Now, when your client tells you that, you feel really good, because they are the ones who are coming up with the realization that we need that narrow log to cross. Cross the gap between narrative and dialogue. So we invite you in the same way to revisit your presentation. Timeout, Mark. I'm like Darren Lacroix in the day. I don't need a script. I just know what I want to say. I flow and I Wing it. And it works. Now, if you're on audio, you can't see Darren put his hand in his face and do a face palm because he'll tell you and he will tell you in a second what his experience was without a script. 24 years ago when we met.

Yeah. When I looked at the words, because I thought, you know, because I'm so passionate and animated, I was interesting, but in a car wreck kind of way.

That's interesting.

That, that it was interesting. But no change happened. No story was being told. I was just interesting to watch, which wasn't enough. And when I first saw the words of what I said, because our. My other coach, David McElhenney, said, okay, if you can't write it down, go deliver it and then transcribe it. And when I did that, okay, that's reaction. Reaction tells a story. I realized that, yeah, even though I was animated and passionate, the words were, let's just say, extraneous, like extra boring, not interesting. So if I can add my passion to well written stories now, it becomes more intriguing. And Mark, I want to back up when you're talking about what moves the story forward. So think about this again, just a guideline. But what moves the story forward is there dialogue that increases the conflict. So three quick ideas. If it increases the conflict, if it's part of the revelation, the aha. Or if it's part of the aftermath where we can see the character has changed, where we have proof of transformation. So maybe it's little kids saying, wow, mom, you're different. When the lady pulled out in front of you last week, you would have got mad and yelled and screamed at her, but now you're just letting it go. Cool. You know, whatever. So a character can observe the transformation as well. So either adds to the conflict, enhances the revelation, or shows us the revelation that the character has or shows us part of the aftermath that the transformation has happened. Those are. That's what we mean by advancing the story, Mark.

Yeah, and some very simple examples. We talk about the revelation, okay. And the dialogue is sometimes what we call internal dialogue. I could easily say in a presentation, that's when I realized I was doing it wrong all along. I had to change. That's valid, it's true, it's narrative. But then it hit me. I've been doing it wrong the whole time. If I change my process, I'll change my results. Wow. Now that's internal dialogue to show the revelation point one Darren just made. And again, I could say I realized then I had the Wrong process. If I change my process, I get my results differently. That's fine. It's narrative. But consider if you have the audience hear your internal dialogue in that moment of the aha, it's a bit more impactful. Similarly, if it increases conflict, one could talk about. It was then I realized this, that our relationship wasn't going to go anywhere. And I told him, it's time for us to get out of this thing. Which is true. I talked to them about it. It was not working out. Let's break it off. But if I conversely reverse it and say we sat down over coffee and I said, listen, I've tried to make this work. Clearly isn't working. We need to go our separate ways. That's a dialog. And then Darren says, wait for the reaction from the other character, which could be verbal or could be nonverbal. You could use narration. Said, I could tell by the look on his face, he didn't take it very well. Okay, that's one way to do it. But here's the point. If we look at our script and ask ourselves, okay, here is a conflict situation. Do I use dialogue here or narrative here? And invest the time to almost live it out at times, it'll come to you. Yeah, I need to hear that particular conversation, and I need to see the reaction from the other individual for the audience to really feel the emotional part of it. This is not to be taken lightly. When you are selective, you'll be effective in choosing that narrow log and which part of the log you will stand on, because that'll create the bridge that. That facilitates a seamless, meaningful conversation. By the way down, and the last one, you just gave an example of transformation proof the aftermath. Okay. You know, you could say, and after that, man, the kids could see how much she changed, right? Yeah, the kids saw her change in the moment. It was really great. That's true. That's narrative. But, Darren, you said. And the kids said, mom, wow, you're different. Mom, you don't do that anymore. That's awesome, Mom. We really appreciate that. Mom. We are hearing someone's voice. We are feeling their emotion. By using dialogue in the aftermath, as in proof of her transformation. If we really drill down on these three simple techniques with the idea of the dialogue and investigate. Revisit our script, and you need a script to investigate this, you will find key moments and ahas and situations where it would be very clear to you when you realize it. Wow, definitely I need dialogue here. And you might say, huh? I didn't need dialogue. There I'll take that out, I'll put it back to narration. It's a process, but when you do this well, you really will transform your presentation.

Yeah. One more quick insight. You probably heard this from me before, but we say reactions tell the story. So in the example that Mark just gave, okay, we need to go our separate ways. So the story is told in the reaction because the person could a say, hmm, you know what? You're right. That's wisdom. It's time to go our separate ways. A, B, it could be. What do you mean? That's stupid. What are you an. You know, and, and so it's not just the dialogue. We need that reaction to know what happened in the with the characters. Because it could go one of 12.

Ways and one of which could also be there. It all could also be silence. When you went home with your parents with this big dream after going business school, I'm gonna be a comedian. You use dialogue. But we saw they were met by silence. And here's the funny part. Darren did that 25 years ago. He had no clue what NAR log was back then, but he saw the technique worked. And we worked on that particular scene together way back in 2021 and 2001. 20 years ago. But we could see now, years later, it actually was very effective. But we have to realize, as Darren says, there are different ways a conversation, a conversation can go. But using narrow wisely create the atmosphere, the experience and the for the audience to get.

Darren, hey, thanks here for tuning into this podcast. We appreciate it Best, best compliment you could give us. Pass this episode or one of your favorites on to a friend. So it could help. We would appreciate that. We love that this is a passion of ours. Another idea, join us in Stage Time University and get some direct feedback on your stories, your presentations. I always say you want to hit your full potential. You can't do it alone. And I say that because I live that without David McElhenney and Mark Brown, I wouldn't be the speaker I am today. So take this, absorb this, be a sponge. What are we going to talk about next week? I don't know.

Idea. See you then.

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