Ep. 3 The Story Behind Mark Brown’s World Championship Winning Speech

Did you hear our cheesy opening yet?

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You're about to hear it.

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Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tilt a story. And there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time, Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas? Let's dive right in.

All right, welcome to episode three, where we're going to dive deep behind Mark Brown's speech. Welcome, Mark Brown, my fellow friend, my fellow world champion in csp.

What's up, my friend?

How are you today?

So far, so blessed. Always, man. Always.

And to make this extra special, we wanted to bring in the Coach, Ed Tate, CSP World Champion of Public Speaking 2000. Our friend, our brother. Welcome, Ed Tate. How are you, buddy?

I'm great. I'm here with two of my brothers, and thank you for inviting me on the program.

Delighted to have you here. So we're going to go into Mark Brown's speech, and for those of you unfamiliar, this is the Toastmasters World championship speech called Second Chance. You can check it out on YouTube, but we're going to find out the stories behind it, and we're actually going to dissect some of it and bring up the devices that you can model for your presentation to make your presentation unforgettable. So, Ed, please, if you've got questions for Mark, you know Mark's one of the hosts, but it's his turn to get grilled, if you will, because we want to dig in for content.

Well, first of all, I just want. I have a couple of insights from the very beginning. Number one, Mark, I hate you, because you still look the same today as you did in 1995. I'm looking at him, I'm thinking like, man, I got, like, crow's feet around my eyes. You know, my neck is not looking that good. I'm saying to myself, this is the same guy. You know, what the heck, man? But the other. I had two other insights. I had two other insights. The other insight is the message that you have is still relevant for today. And you didn't give us a speech. You actually gave us a courtroom drama where you were the defending attorney. You were defending the actual beast from Beauty and the Beast, and it actually was a whodunit because the Beast from who? From Beauty and the Beast. Didn't actually do it.

No, it was.

It was the three eyes.

It's the Forensic Files, my favorite TV show. Mark, do the voice.

Well, we get there. We'll get there later.

Anyway, so, like, I. Looking at it through that lens, through that eyes, it was. It was. It was beautiful to watch it. And it was. It was a. It's a masterpiece, my friend. And I really, really enjoyed analyzing it.

Excellent. So, Mark, let's back up. How did you even come to Toastmasters?

Very strange story. I first heard that word and I was living in New York back in the 1980s. I had an uncle who has since passed on, a Supreme Court judge in Jamaica. And he said to me, he wore a Toastmasters pin. And he said. I said, what? It was Toastmasters. We help people to speak more effectively. Turns out my uncle was the first toastmaster in Jamaica. And for those who are Toastmasters here. Yeah, he brought. He got 19 friends to join him, and. And he began the very first club in Jamaica. And that one club became the seed of what's Now Toastmasters, District 81 across the Caribbean. And I went to work at Reader's Digest Roundabout, Pearl Harbor Day, December 7, 1992. And I was there, I met a fellow who I worked with before, and he said, mark, we have a Toastmasters Club here. You ought to join. And immediately I heard Toastmasters. My uncle does that. Let me check it out. And the truth was, it was that simple invitation. But I went to my first club meeting in 1995, December. And it took me five or six months to join the club. I was that intimidated. I didn't think I was that good. And I finally took the plunge in the spring of 1993 through a series of accidental events. I entered my club speech contest in 94 on two hours notice to replace somebody who couldn't make it. And I ended up in the world championship in 94. Didn't win.

Wow.

And 95 became the world champion. A very strange journey. All true. That first year, 94, I had no clue what I was doing. My second year, I got a coach.

Let's back up, Mark, and let's back up to the end of 1994. You even tell a story about how did your kids react? And then what was the question?

Well, in 94, I had lost. And my family had come from New York to Kentucky to Watts. My son Joel was then 7 years old. And I was sitting back about four rows of an empty ballroom, and my son was crying, daddy, you tried so hard. You didn't win. And he was really down. And in that moment, I tried to comfort him. Son, it's okay. Daddy did his best. Is always next year. And right then, David Brooks walked into my life, told me, you're a good speaker. You have potential. If I can help you in any way, let me know. He handed me a business card and he was gone. I called him the following day. When I got home, I dropped my bags on the floor. I picked up my phone and I pushed button, called him on those old phones. And when the phone rang twice, somebody picked up. I said, hello, Mark Brown for David Brooks, please. He said, this is David. Said, david, it's Mark Brown. Do you remember me? He said, mark, I met you yesterday. True story. I said, dave, you promised to help, will you? And he said the magical word, yes. And with his help, he became my mentor. I call him to this day the master mentor because of one thing he did. David helped me to answer my questions myself. I'd ask him what to do. I'd ask him what to say, what to write. He would never do it for me. He would then ask me a question that prompted me to think, to dig deep into myself and to bring out the potential he saw in me. And the weird thing is, with his help, I went back to the final in 95. But I learned that I was not the only one to whom he made the offer to help. He actually offered to help seven of us. But of the seven of us, I was the only one who said yes. I was the only one who was willing to be coached by someone who had been where I want to be. The power of getting a good coach. And I was the only one who returned to the stage that year from 1994, and I won the World Championships. And Darren, you and I always talk about getting a qualified coach. I lived that. I don't just preach it. I have lived that. I have reaped the benefits of it. And I value good coaching. That's how this whole thing came about. With a second chance.

Well, Mark. Mark.

Yes, Ed.

Both David Brooks and you helped me win the World Championship public speaking in the year 2000. And you in particular gave me one tip that had you not given me that tip, I would not be here today. And we could hold that for later.

Cliffhanger.

Yeah, we'll tell them. We'll tell them. We'll tell them.

Okay.

And that's basically have an emergency ending. And in my particular case, for those of you who are listening, who are unfamiliar with the World Championship, it is a timed competition. And if you're. You have 4 minutes and 30 seconds up to 7 minutes and 30 seconds, and if you're 1 second short or 1 second long, you're disqualified. And it looked like I was about to be disqualified. And the advice that Mark gave me was to have an emergency ending. And what happened is the audience was bigger than I had practiced in front of. They laughed longer. They laughed in places they had never laughed before. And my timing was completely thrown off, and I knew it. And I needed to have a way to end my presentation but not make it look abrupt. And I found a spot in the speech. I ended the speech right then and there. And thankfully, I ended on time. And, Mark, thank you forever, my friend.

Hey, thank you, brother. I mean, I won't forget that meeting we had in the lobby of the Fontainebleau. I was dripping wet. I had gotten in the elevator, and Ed said, hey, Mark, you got a second? I said, sure.

Now explain why you were dripping wet.

Yes, yes. You need to explain that. You need to backstory. Backstory. Context.

Fountain, blue Hilton in Florida by the beach. It was a great day by the beach. I'd gone to the beach with my wife. I was going back to my room. I was dripping wet. I stepped off the elevator into an area near the lobby. It was 64 degrees in that lobby, and I'm dripping wet. And Ed's two minute question was an hour and a half. Oh, man.

Sorry.

No, no, it was really great. I knew who you were, and I knew you had the goods, and I was happy to help you, my friend. Honored to be part of the team. Now. We're brothers, man, so we love this. And now the shoes on the other foot, because Ed gets to evaluate my speech. Whoa. That's going to be interesting.

Yes.

So, Mark, back up a quick second. What was. How was the process different in 94 when you didn't have a coach or did you have any type of coach? In 94?

I called someone from New York named Mark Laverne, who had been in the final in 1989. He didn't place, but he was the only person I knew who had been to the big dance. So he let me to get this audio cassette tapes.

So for the younger viewers.

Yes.

We're gonna explain what that means a little bit later.

And one of those was the top three finishers in 1990. Of course, David Brooks was on the audio tape. So he was merely a voice on an audio cassette tape until I actually met him in Louisville, Kentucky, at the end of my Contest having lost in 1994. So I got an idea or two from Mark, but it wasn't the kind of qualified feedback a qualified coach can give. It was miles apart. Nothing wrong with Mark. Mark and I were never engaged to work together. I simply hit Mark. Any resources? Yeah, I got two tapes. There you go. I didn't know. I didn't know what it meant to actually engage someone who was qualified until David Brooks made the offer and I accepted it. And my world was opened up to a brand new. And I've never been the same speaker since I worked with David Brooks.

And I think that's a commonality, too, that you don't understand what a coach does or how it affects you. I mean, there's so much power if you want to be unforgettable. One of our first bits of advice is get a coach. Doesn't matter what level you're at. We need somebody qualified to give you that specific feedback about your story, your style, your delivery. Ed, anything to add to that?

Well, I was coaching a client who lives in London, and here's a person who has actually paid for multiple coaches, if you will. He says, that's been the secret to my success. He says, I always hire somebody who's ahead of me. And today he ended our call and he said, when I hired you, I had no idea the depth of knowledge that you had. I had no idea. I thought, like, I was going to, like, you know, talk to you for a couple months and then I would have all your secrets. And he says, we've just scratched the surface. So that was like one of the highest compliments. And that's the benefit of having a coach.

Yeah. I remember when I went to Mark, all transparency. I thought if he just gave me a few tips because I was enthusiastic, I was passionate, I was animated, but I wasn't saying anything. So a lot of people can fool themselves into thinking they can figure it out themselves. There's that 2% that are natural born amazing. I hate them, too, because for the rest of us, we need a coach. Any other insights in terms of working with David in general? And you had said, just make sure everyone picked up on this. David offered that to everyone, and you didn't even know that at the beginning.

I did not know you were the.

One person who said yes. You came back and they didn't. The defense rests.

There was one more thing regarding his coaching me. The speech I delivered to win the world title back in 1995, that was the first time I was delivering it for an audience for real audience. Because I had planned to deliver a different presentation. I worked for six weeks on the speech, and I knew it was not my best work. I told David that now for Millennials, a letter is okay. And with his advice, he guided me to it in a different direction. And I wrote him a letter at the end of the process after I won. And I told him in the letter, I said, like a wise father, you allowed me to stray from the path you knew was right, confident I'd find my way back home. And he kind of gave me some nudging and some guidance, direction and correction, right? And eventually I tossed the speech I had planned out. I had 20 days to prepare something different. And I took an old speech, had given call, take a second look, and rewrote the whole thing. And it was transformed. The only people who heard that in entirety were my two stage coaches, Robert and Randy Gedalia of New York City, both longtime toastmasters, and my family, my wife and my kids, and David. When I delivered that speech in August of 95 on that stage, that was the first time for a for real audience delivering that presentation.

You said something very, very important. The difference between what I call an amateur coach and a real coach. And you said the phrase David provided you. He did several things. Number one, he provided you with the Socratic message, I mean, method, if you will. He asked you questions. He didn't tell you specifically what to do, but he just asked you questions and you found the answer on your own. Number one. Then the other phrase you used was direction and correction. And this is what an experienced coach does. They provide direction, correction, and they have you do it again. Whereas the vast majority of amateur coaches, what they do is they criticize. Well, you know, this is what you.

Did wrong, or they hand you the answers and it's the answer for them as opposed to what's best for you and your style and your delivery.

Exactly.

So you talked to. You've touched on some very advanced techniques of coaching.

And for everyone listening, if you're a corporate presenter, if you're a pastor, if you're a professional speaker, we're talking about the speech contest, but it's a metaphor. All these same tools are going to work in your situation. Given a sermon, given a corporate presentation. So this is a seven minute timed speech. And 25,000 people compete every year. And there's a judges form, 21 judges sitting in the audience judging you in different categories. But we're just sharing our experience to help you so you can make your presentations more unforgettable all right, Mark, go to just before this presentation. You're five minutes before. You've prepared for months. What's going through your mind?

I'm thinking, let me add him. I had the mentality of, listen, honestly, I had a mentality of a caged bronco at a rodeo. I believe with all my heart. I had invested fewer than three weeks of intense work, but I believed I had a message for that audience. I believe I had a message for the world. And I could not wait to deliver it. So much so before they mic me up backstage, I was doing push ups. I'm serious. I did 20 pushups. I felt good. My blood was pumping. I hadn't eaten anything because back then it was a morning contest. I just got enough fluids to keep my body going. I didn't want my brain thinking about digesting eggs and sausages. I was thinking, I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm here for a message. I got mic'd up. There were steps back there. I had one foot on the bottom step. I had my hand on both railings saying, let me at him, let me at him. I need to deliver this message. That was my mindset. The mindse was, what do I have for the audience? Not to impress them, but to impress upon them a message worth sharing.

I remember you describing it to me that you literally had your hands on both handrails and you're pulling yourself, like, ready to launch. Like the bobsled guys ready to launch on stage.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. I was that eager to share my message. I really was.

And did David give you any guidance on clarifying your message or any good questions?

Well, when he asked, he would ask questions like, why would you want to say that? And he would have me defend. Defend.

Going back to the jury.

Yeah.

Really love that metaphor.

Yes.

And it's funny. I watched my process evolve from, should I do this? I feel it's sumi centered. Should I be saying that? I don't know. And the last few times I would correspond, I'd say, david, I chose to do this. People think it's inappropriate, but for me, it's right. Therefore, that sentence remains. I was making declarations, no longer asking questions, and he brought me through a process of thinking and deciding and as Ed would say, and freezing the design. Because that's what I know was best for me. That's great. Guidance from a coach. Excellent guidance from a coach.

And Ed, you've got a technique where you call when you take two pieces of material or Two thoughts and you make it into the final four.

Yes. It's called a main draw. And the main draw and then you take one idea and it's like if it was in a game, it's competing against the other idea and then only one of the ideas could advance to the next round. So that's a way of deciding, okay, what's going to be the best piece of content or what's going to be the best idea.

Yeah. What's going to help move forward this message or what's going to plead the case? If we're sticking to the jury theme, what's going to give or be better evidence?

Well, and you know, we have a friend, his name is Mike Rayburn, he's in the speaking hall of fame and.

He was on episode two, the previous episode. Go ahead.

And I heard this. I'm going to give him credit for this idea. I'm pretty sure it was his idea where he said that I will take a presentation, I will throw everything out. And this is a mixed metaphor and everything has to audition to get back in. So it's a very similar idea.

Those of you listening, if you haven't heard episode two, he does talk about that in details. Go check out episode two. Mark, any other insights from the preparation process?

Like anything else, you will have to eliminate some things, test things out and see what works best for you. To my advantage. I only had 20 days to get this ready and I didn't have a lot of time and I began to really focus. And my encouragement, believe it or not, came from my family, especially my then 11 year old daughter who was just so insightful, if I lack humor, she would let me know.

Gotta love the truth.

And listen, my daughter now is an attorney. I can't argue with her.

I take you back to a metaphor.

The legal theme is running rampant today. Yeah, but it's knowing what's best for you and the message you want to deliver. Because most people, when they advise you to tell you what they would do, you know, if I were you, I would do this. But you have to know in your heart what's what works for you. And the thing is, I was trying to find three, a triad of stories to make this speech memorable. I believed in the triad and at some point I said, wait a second, why do I need three? I had Beauty and the Beast and I had one other true story that I had observed. I didn't need a third piece. And at the time I had been taught by so many people the power of three. The power of three. The power of 3. So triads were ruling and reigning back then. But I said, no, I've got Beauty and the Beast. I've got Pat Harper. That's all I need. I need a strong call to action. So my call to action is very, very clear. It's not the last two seconds. It's a strong call to action towards the end.

Yes, Very, very emotional, very powerful.

And going back to what you said about, like, your coach and what's right and what's in your heart, I remember when you and David McElhenney were working, I had one of my best punchlines, and I had a tagline on that about the nonprofit organization. He's like, nope, nope, nope. And I was like, no, this stays. I know it works. And after the presentation, he came up to me and said, you were right. And so you've got to stick with your heart. And we'll cover my speech in the next episode, Episode four. But right now, this is about Mark.

Well, and again, you have this great aphorism that you tell all your coaching clients, you are the president. You're the CEO of your speech. We, as coaches, are the advisors. Our job is to provide ideas, tips, tools, idea, you know, strategies, techniques, et cetera. However, it's the CEO, it's the president of the speech. He or she must make the decisions in terms of what will work for them.

You're 100% responsible. All right, Mark, you had some great tools, the best I had ever seen. I want to go over a few of them. I have some audio clips from Mark's speech. If you want to watch the whole speech, just go on YouTube and put in Mark Brown world Championship Speech, and it will pop up first. But the first tool I want to cover is the thread. The thread that you had throughout the speech. Your speech title was Second Chance. Before I play the clip, Mark, what were your insights on? Did you know you were putting that together? Was that a strategy you and David came up with?

The Second Chance idea came from David. The original title was Take a Second look, but A Second Chance gave me the opportunity to use a quote early in the speech. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and to let people know. It's a very common phrase, but it should hold greater meaning if we dive a little more deeply. So that became the theme or the sub theme, the thread that ran throughout the whole speech. And honestly, I hadn't analyzed it in the way you and Ed have done. So I'm almost nervous to hear what you.

In that idea for everyone deserves a second chance. What I loved that you did was right away you acknowledge this is a common phrase, but you were going to go deeper. See, if I was coaching someone, they came up with that, I would be like, that's cliche. Don't use it. But the fact that immediately you acknowledge that allowed me to say, okay, we're going deeper. I'm accepted to that.

And again, you're an attorney who made your case. So there's. There's actually two trials going on here. Number one is the Beast, and number two is this theme. For example, again, I wrote down cliche alert with your opening line. However, at the end of the speech, your last line is, don't we deserve a second chance?

Everyone deserves it.

So you've twisted the cliche and you have presented evidence, strong case as to, yes, everyone should be given the second case. So that's the thing I loved about it.

The speech is layered and learning from movies. And our friend Michael Haig, the movie expert, he talks about every movie has a desire line that is the thread through the whole movie. And with you and what you did here, we're gonna listen to just that thread. So what I did is I assembled some little clips and just put them back to back to back. So in a seven minute speech, you're gonna hear this thread and we'll count them as we go, how many times? And it just, it keeps you on track, it keeps the message clear. All right, Mark, anything else before we play the clip?

I wait with bated breath.

All right, so we'll count them here, Mark, maybe you can count them. Make sure, since I'm not going to be able to see the edits. Here we go.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. We don't always give a second chance. For years, the Beast had lived in isolation, but no one took the time to say, wait, what's he really like? Who is this Beast? Oh, no, he wasn't given a second chance. Oh, my friends, do they not deserve a second chance? You see, Bell gave him a second chance. Yes, kill the Beast. Because everyone deserves a second chance.

Nice.

So, Mark, how many did you get there?

I saw six and the speech was 6:42. It's about once a minute. Wow, I didn't realize that.

Yeah, and if you're doing a 60 minute speech, you don't want 60 of them. By the way, thanks for the tip, I appreciate that. But in this case, it worked beautifully.

Well, the insight I had, you said the Beast wasn't given a second Chance. The Beast wasn't actually given a first chance.

That's true. That's true, that's true, that's true. But we can say that now, and we're safe. It's only been 24 years.

So, Mark, did you logically or strategically come up with that? Did you even realize it was in there six times or.

I did not. I did not know it was there six times. I was more concerned about what flowed well, to get me to my destination. And I didn't say, I need one here, I need one here, I need one here. But as I began to craft the speech, I realized that the phrase would work in this place for the Beast. It would work with us not giving other people second chance, and then it would work with all of us deserving a second chance. So I was able to use a title in a cliche, but applied to the first person, the character who was a cartoon character, the Beast. And then I was able to apply to us, do we. Do they deserve a second chance? And then apply to everyone, that everyone deserves a second chance. So it went from a cliche to a cartoon character to real life, to you, to me, to all of us. And that was a cool part. And I didn't really see it developing that way, but with the correction and direction from a coach like David Brooks, that's the kind of result you can get.

Yeah. I also saw it serving well as a transition, and I love that you just what you said for everyone. He applied it to different characters. He also wasn't delivering it the same way. He had a different intonation each time, which kept it interesting, but really was a smooth transition.

Well, you also, again, going back to the defending your case metaphor, you said, this is a children's story. However, there's a message or lesson in this for us all. And I counted four specific situations where I said, okay, that's a lesson for us all. This is a lesson for us all. This is a lesson for us all. So I'm going to. As we go on, I will point those out.

Okay.

Mark, anything else on the thread?

Oh, no, it's soaked together. It's all tied up right now. That's good.

All right, so we're going to move on now to your iii, which was your message.

Intolerance, indifference, and ignorance. Dave and I talked about what would be a good. What would be a good rhythmic sound to use, having some alliteration, because that would make it memorable. And here we chose a triad. We went for the triad here. Intolerance, indifference, and ignor. When I put a speech together, I was really touched by the message of the Disney cartoon, but also by the behavior of people in New York City, somebody who appeared to be home. I mean, I saw this and it really moved me. And it made me realize as human beings, we are guilty of intolerance, indifference and ignorance. And if I could use this, a cartoon and real life together, combine those to deliver a strong message, I may have something there. That's where that came from.

So let me play that clip.

He was a victim of the real Beast. Intolerance, indifference and ignorance. Oh, well, it's a movie, it's a fantasy. But intolerance, indifference and ignorance are a reality. We've got to deal with it every single day. But the real beast was in the hearts of those who treated her with disdain. Oh yes, the beast of intolerance, indifference and ignorance. Do you remember the pain you felt when you faced intolerance just because you were different? Do you remember when you faced indifference? Because like Pat Harper and so many others, well, your situation, that's your problem. And do you remember when you faced ignorance like that of those villagers, because someone felt as they did? We don't like what we don't understand. In fact, it scares us. Do you remember how deeply it hurt? And the fantasy will never become reality unless we attack the Beast, the real Beast. Intolerance, indifference and ignorance.

Such great rating, man.

That was very, very powerful. Here's again another insight for me. Again, I take you back to our legal metaphor. You balance the scales of justice. And what do I mean by that? So there is a speaker and her name eludes me at this moment. And she says that when you are given a speech, you're co creating. That is, we are listening to Mark's speech, but at the same time we're actually listening, we're actually replaying our own experiences which are similar to that. So we're co creating. So when you talked about intolerance, indifference and injustice, do you remember the time? So guess what? During that time we're co creating, remember those very specific situations in our own lives that took place. And then you balance the scales and you flipped it and he says, hey, have you been intolerant?

Brought it back to us.

Have you been indifferent and have you been ignorant? You balanced the scales. And again, without being accusatory, but I loved how you balanced it. You had us recall times when we were the victims. And you also recall times when we may have been the perpetrators.

Yes, that was deliberate, by the way. That was deliberate. And it's risky to try to tell you don't want to accuse the audience. So I said, perhaps you have participated well worded. And then I offer suggestions. Is there someone out there, someone in your neighborhood, someone in your workplace, someone in your home who has heard your beast roar? So I do kind of poke the audience in the eye a little bit, but I want them to realize first, you've been a victim, but maybe you've also been guilty. So think about it. Again, it was a call to action, to think differently. We always teach what you want, your needs to feel, to think, and to do what. I want them to feel the pain and to think about their own actions. And then what's the do? Let's kill the beast. That's a do piece. I mean, I was going right down the line. Think, feel, do. That we teach every single day.

I also love, for everyone listening, he used what we call you focused questions. He brought it back to us. And there was also a great subtle point that you make. I don't think it was in this clip. But you said you were guilty of the same.

Yes, I admit I've done it, too. But we don't always think about it until we come faced. Yeah, I did say that. I admitted it, which.

That transparency is what connects us. It's not like, oh, you're perfect. You're Mark Brown, blah, blah, blah. It's like, I did it too. And it's hard to, you know, it's hard to put up your own barriers and think, well, I don't have this problem when you, the speaker who's talking about it, admits that you did it as well.

What's cool is when we are vulnerable and honest and our audiences know that they're that much more receptive to what we have to say.

Exactly. All right, Mark, you just mentioned another. So I'm going to play another clip here where you. This is. All right. This is a big word for me. Onomatopoeia.

Oh, nice, Darren.

It's the only word that I know that's that many syllables long. And I had to look it up. My other mentor taught it to me. Mark, when you talk about someone in your family, have you ever heard or has anyone ever heard your beast roar? And now this. Again, this isn't for everyone, but Mark is just so charismatic and can pull this off and make it authentic and powerful in his delivery. Again, this may or may not work for you, but we want to go through all the tools that Mark used. All right, let's take a listen to that clip.

Is There someone out there, someone in your workplace, someone in your neighborhood, someone in your home who has heard your beast roar.

All right, Mark. Mark, can you give us a roar to be clear?

To be clear, Onomatopoeia is where the sound and the meaning coincide. That's correct, Darren.

Like splash or crash or bang.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, right.

So thank you for clarifying that.

No, it was a tricky one, but I had spent so many years reading cartoons to my kids and doing voices and sound effects that I thought that might be a good effect to have the audience not only hear the words, but hear the sound in that way. While I stood straight, clenched my fists, kind of had a look on my face like I was a lion roaring and, you know, like a beast roaring. So the sound of the beasts roaring over the word roar and my demeanor, all three were designed to create the visual image for the audience to think about their own lives and their own behavior. Because now I'm asking you, have you really been a beast yourself? But not the beast who was the victim, the beast who was guilty of roaring in people's faces and putting them down. So that was how that kind of developed in my head.

Also in that clip, you're also using another rhetorical device. It's called anaphora. And you said, is there someone in your blank? Is there someone in your blank? Is there someone in your blank? Whenever you use the same exact phrase at the beginning of a sentence, that's called anaphora. And again, it uses the tricolon, the rule of three. It makes it memorable. The opposite of that is a rhetorical device called epistrophe, and that is you repeat. You have the phrase at the end of a sentence, and that is like, for example. Like. The only example I can think of is like, the song, you know, put a ring on it. If you liked it, you should have put a ring on it.

If you bum it, you should have.

Put a ring on it. You should have put a ring, ring on it. But you get the example. But again, that clip had multiple rhetorical devices.

Yeah, and I love how you said this without saying it or without being mean, but with being truthful of the anger that you put behind your words and really encourage everyone to go, watch this, because you were talking about when we lash out at people, when we're in hurt mode or we're angry, we're upset. And so your delivery in the voice as well as your body language just so, well, says, look, maybe you were abusive in this one moment while you were under the emotion of Anger. And I just think it was so well done. Without saying you're abusive. You're not. Like, we all have that tendency. Mark, another tool of yours that I would never do. But everyone needs to look at. Everyone needs to look at your own tools and talent and background. And if we want to be unforgettable, we've got to use the talents that we have. Like Ed, when you do yours, audience participation, like no one else. And in a future episode, we're going to talk about your story, which was beautiful. Funny, because I'm jealous you got more laughs than I did. But you have this way of engaging the audience that I don't do well. Mark, with you, one of your talents is singing. And so what I love that you did about this too, is you used that talent that. But you didn't sing a whole song. You didn't overdo it. It just was such a beautiful explanation point. Did you talk to David at all about whether or not you should sing or how did that come about?

Well, you know, to my recollection, it just seemed appropriate because don't forget, the root of this was literally, I sat one evening with my kids, who were probably, you know, 6 and 10, or even 6 and 8 when the movie first came out. Cartoon back in the 1990s. And I saw this scene and honestly, I stopped the video, the VHS video from. Google it. Google it.

We don't have time.

I stopped the VHS videotape. I rewound that scene and I played it again. It was so powerful to me, and it was my daddy moment to teach my kids a lesson about life. And for me to make that real, I could talk about what happened. But to me, to relive that scene would be more visual and more vivid for the audience. So I took that risk of singing the part of the angry mob and having that, because the tagline is kill the beast. And it would come that much more meaningful, more powerful if the audience sees me reenact that scene in that way. I thought it would drive the message forward, so that's why I chose to do it.

You know what? Before we move on, one thing I want to compliment you on is that if a person has never seen the movie, you were able, in a very short period of time, to give us. You told us, you gave us the people, the place and the plot in a minute and 30 seconds. So if you had never seen the movie, you caught us up in under a minute and 30 seconds. So I also thought that was brilliant.

I think that's one of the Mistakes a lot of people make is they bring a reference that they think everyone knows if it's a sports reference. Well, there's a third of your audience that doesn't follow sports or doesn't follow that sport or don't.

They don't follow American sports.

You know, they want cricket and football, man. Soccer. Soccer.

Or badminton.

You know, badminton. Yeah, it's true.

All right, so let's take a listen to that clip.

This angry mob cuts down trees and they make clubs. They brandish knives, pitchforks and torches, and they march through the forest singing. We don't like what we don't understand. In fact, it scares us. And this monster is mysterious. At least Bring your guns, bring your knives, save your children and your wife. We save our feelings and our lives. We'll kill the beast.

Well, I have a different take on this. Go for it, Mark. I think one of your superpowers, or as Darren would say, your ninja skill.

Ninja skill.

Ninja skill Is imagery. Because when this scene right here, again, I have never seen the movie. However, I was there.

You're gonna start now that you have.

I will also watch it. Like, was it 10 times in one week, But I was there. I saw the villagers, I saw the pitchforks, I saw the knives, I saw the guns, I saw all the weapons, etc. I saw the lights, you know, the lamp, et cetera. So the picture that you painted, the imagery was so vivid.

Well, and that's the cool part, when you can take two tools and bring them together in one place in your speech, that's what helps make it unforgettable, that not only the imagery, but Mark's beautiful voice and singing. So bringing those two together, it was just. And I cut the clip off, but go watch the speech. Because right after that, my favorite line of the whole speech, and it was, watch Mark Brown's face. Because he just says, why? And the audience loses it. Because he had created such an energy that just saying the word why was like, boom. It was a release of the tension that he had created. It was brilliant. But watching your face be like, they never laugh like that in rehearsal.

And that was one of the bigger, biggest laughs in the speech.

It was. Yeah, it was. It was. I was. I did not anticipate that. But lesson for anyone who. Not only contestants, but speakers. I sure, Darren, you'll also support this. As Ed said, there are times when audiences will respond in unexpected ways.

Yeah.

So when we coach those who are toastmasters who want to do the competition, we say, basically, listen, write a six minute speech. And deliver it in seven. Give yourself room. Because I have had clients say, well, you know, my talk is 7:15, I've got 15 seconds of room. No, you don't. And they laugh unexpectedly. You could easily laugh.

Ask Ed how he knows that.

And they laugh longer.

So you never know. So. But that particular why I hadn't rehearsed it with that inflection before and it was almost a spontaneous shift in the infection, but the reaction was, wow. And my face says, why are you all laughing? Watch the video. You will see that. Very puzzled there.

So that's imprisoned. That was real and authentic.

But Darren, the point is this. Like you said earlier, as individuals, you have a gift, a talent, something about you that works for you. Don't be afraid to take a risk. Get out Aaron Layman and try it, Test it out and see if it will enhance your presentation. Because you never know that what you have in that moment, in that way with your style and personality, can make you a stand competition. I speak to every professional speaker to be memorable because you want your audience to remember you and to repeat your words and say, he or she gave me such value. And I like their style. You have to be you.

It's not easy to be unforgettable. And when you can, though, whether it's a pastor, corporate presenter, professional, it makes your message stickier, makes it unforgettable. Now there's a clip, a funny clip. And we always hear people say, you got to have humor. You got to have humor. And they want to just take it and like paste it on like a band aid because they're trying to get a joke in and we do not recommend it. For those of you who follow the world Championship speech contest last year, Sherry sue, she gave one of the funniest speeches and definitely the funniest and got the most laughs last year, but she didn't win. And I just love that as proof, like, Ramona was the world champion, but it wasn't funny. There wasn't a lot of humor. There was a few laugh lines, which is good, but we can't force humor. So let's take a listen to this.

Let me explain. Recently, my wife Andrea, our three children and I sat down to watch a very important film, Beauty and the Beast. Oh, you've seen it? Then you know that this is a.

Film you can't watch. Just one.

Your children won't let you. I've seen it 13 times since last Monday.

I love how relatable that is. So that's three laughs and a joke line and Two taglines. That was just so beautifully done and so relatable.

He got a laugh line from Beauty.

And the Beast, but that was set up by saying it very sternly and sending us in the direction that this was like an educational film and not what we expected, a Disney movie. So that delivery of the seriousness set up the change of direction, which got.

The laugh line and he got multiple payoffs.

Yeah, it was. It was boom, boom, boom.

And that, by the way, Darren, I think our audiences need to know that there is a technique to that which I didn't fully understand because the line was going to be. I've seen it 13 times. Hahahaha. And a buddy of mine at work said, ad since last week. I said, okay, sounds good. So I said since last Monday, because I was trying to find a word within that rhythm. Since I could say last Thursday or last, I chose Monday. I've seen it 13 times. Pause. Since last Monday. And the audience laughed again. I didn't know, I didn't understand time. You could get an extra payoff by tagging and tagging and tagging. But that evolved over time, and over the last 24 years, I've now had a greater appreciation for how that works. But it was really effective on the day for me. Definitely.

What's beautiful too, is it came from an audience member. See, all of us got to remember that your presentation evolves, especially if you're giving the presentation over and over and over again. Listen to your audience. Sometimes they've got a great line along the way that we would have never thought of. But again, then we got to go back and say, okay, does this make it better and does this work for me?

And that also speaks to a process. Yes, you are the creative, but sometimes your audience helps you write your speech. And as you have often said, Darren, you listen to responses. If I get an extra long laugh here, why they laugh, what did they hear? What did they see? In a written feedback, if you get comments, eight comments on a particular line, you get 13 comments on a different line. Okay, 13 people commented. Something resonated. It's a process. It is a process. You can learn, you can apply to becoming unforgettable. We can't cover it all here, but that's one nugget. Your audience will help you.

Something happens between our lips and their ears to dilute. We know what we're trying to say, but often it doesn't land the way we intend. All right, so let's go to one more tool that you use. Mark, we talked about alliteration before or the iii, But I want to go into alliteration. You are just so talented with your writing and your words. Another ninja skill that you have is standing out and pleading your case with well written words that sink deep into the audience's mind. So let's take a listen.

Don't get me wrong. Movies, great for children. The music, the magic, the mystery. But the message. The message is important for all of us to appreciate their circumstance. She dressed as they dressed. She walked as they walked. She lived as they lived for several days. Some looked right at her and yet right past her. Others looked right through her as they thought homeless, useless, worthless.

I'm gonna cry, dude. Like, that is beautiful writing.

Yeah, man.

I love the magic, the mystery, and then how you change your delivery. But the message, my Mark Brown impersonation, like that was just like, you set it up with three, but then you went down to that so sincere, deep tone to get your point across.

Well, here's a bonus one. Fuels their fears and whips them into a frenzy. So there was another example of alliteration there. So it was just. I mean, beautiful.

We bow down to the wordsmith.

Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Well, I tell you, that was not. Clearly, that was not.

Was that spontaneous?

Yeah, not spontaneous. But now the funny thing is, over time, 25 years later, I can sometimes spontaneously find something rhythmic to use. But that was careful. That was writing. That was an investment of time and effort with the idea of how can I get this message across to my audience? Again, the theme is, the idea is, how do I serve my audience well with my writing? And that did not come easy. But when your heart's in it and you want to give the audience that gift you have, there are times you can wax eloquent. Be careful, though. You don't want to wax eloquent all the time and sound contrived and sound like you're trying to impress people. But words do have power. And words can create images, words can trigger emotions. And I was particularly passionate about, they thought homeless, useless, worthless. That was real for me. So I had to get that message across. And that was the best way I found using that triad. And it worked really well.

I remember hearing it the first time when you said, they looked right at her and yet right through her. I could feel that or past her. I could feel that this person was just. They were there, but the passersby looked at her as she was invisible. And like, I felt that it was beautiful.

The. At her, passed her through her. That was also real. The. At her Pastor through her. And if you watch the video, you'll see when I mentioned past her, my body language supports that. And then, yes, if you watch careful, it's a very, very, very nuanced movement. But it was done deliberately. And when you see the video, you'll see what I mean by that.

And when you work with David, how did this writing come about? Like, did he have insights in that? Did he help you with that or point it out?

Yeah, because David was a writer. He is a writer. He was an English teacher at one point. So he taught writing and journalism. That was his ninja skill. But he guided me. He didn't say, say that word, use this word. You use those words. No, he guided me to think it through. And the idea of there's a rhythm to speaking. And many clients don't realize there is a rhythm to speaking. And words provide that rhythm for you. I have one client in Barcelona, Spain, who's a pro speaker. His name is Florian Muick, also a toastmaster. And he'll hire me for every new keynote. And I told him one time, Florian Flo, there is a rhythm to speaking. And it blew him. Professional speaker, well paid, doing well in Europe. But it was like an eye opener. You're right, there is a rhythm. That's why it makes so much sense now. And the rhythm has an emotional impact on your audience as well. And David helped guide me through that. So it's really, really. I must give him credit for the guidance he gave to me so many years ago.

Rhythm. Not my ninja skill, nor singing. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Not till they get to know us on a few more episodes before we can really open up.

I had promised earlier that there were you. You said, hey, this movie relates to us all. And you had another thread. So I'm going to talk about the four threads that I identified as to how this movie relates to us. Number one, we fear things that we don't understand. So that was number one. Number two, intolerance, indifference and ignorance are reality. Again, this is something that we can relate to. Number two of evidence proving your case. Number three, perhaps you have been a victim of the beast. Again, this is how, again, how this relates to us as the audience. And then finally, number four, or actually, it's actually five now, perhaps you've perpetuated this. And then finally you talked about when you're actually telling the story again, this issue of co creating. Have you ever had these experiences? The audience is again going through that again. So I love this theme of how this you Just hammer home this movie. It is educational. It is a documentary in terms of how we can live our lives a lot better.

And you dissect it so beautifully, Mark, and really bring the message out. And I love that you. I love you used the movie and then the story of the homeless woman, like, boom. You didn't need a third.

Well, that's where I was gonna go with this. What Ed did not point out. What you did not point out was this one more sub thread. It is the contrast between fantasy and reality.

Oh, I haven't. That was gonna be my clothes. You stole my clothes.

You stole my clothes. We can edit. We can edit this out and we can just not do it. No, no, no, no.

I will not have that.

No, no, no. But like, I. I have it right here. I call this a tweetable, repeatable. And it's such a powerful line that, hey, that's something that if I'm in the audience, I'm going to take out my device and I'm going to tweet. This fantasy will never be reality unless we attack the real beast. Intolerance, indifference, and ignorance. To me, that was like the most. One of the most powerful lines. And that line took place at the end of the speech.

And I use the contrast three times. The first time I say, oh, well, it's a story, it's a fantasy, but in reality, towards the end, I say, but the story is a fantasy, but reality, as we know, is not so romantic. And I again say, and the fantasy will not become reality unless we. So that was a third, like a Millie's theme, but the movie's a fantasy past the reality, and it carried through. You're right, Darren. I used the fantasy and the reality to drive up the same point. And that, again, was the result of some really hard work, going levels deep in making sure the message got across in different ways. And I'll be honest, Ed, I have never done that level of analysis myself, so I really appreciate it.

Ed's the man. That's why we brought him in. High stakes, Ed.

Oh, man. I mean, there's so many different layers to your speech, Mark. And again, now that people have heard our analysis, now I encourage people to actually watch the video. And what are your observations? Let us know what you saw. What are your insights?

Let's recap the keepers from this podcast from episode three, Mark, if you have any. Mark, please love to hear that. For me, it's like, you got to have a thread. The thread is what keeps. It gives you confidence and gives the audience Clarity. I loved the fact that you use alliteration so well. And then even your message was I, I, I, which helps make your message unforgettable. The presentation is one thing, but if they leave with the unforgettable message, that's the point of the presentation. That's what we want them to leave with. Go ahead, Ed.

Well, I love your use of rhetorical devices. You have made me fall back in love with rhetorical devices. How's it pronounced?

Onomatopoeia.

Onomatopoeia. Anaphora, rhetorical questions, imagery, the tricolon. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. These different rhetorical devices that you use to enrich our listening and viewing experience.

I love what Ed brought up about your amazing use of imagery. When you can paint a picture in the audience's mind, even though it was written by Disney, delivered by Mark Brown, bringing that imagery into your storytelling makes it unforgettable. And then, Mark, again, your ninja skill was the onomatopoeia of the roar as well as the singing. Again, something I wouldn't do, but, like, that's you. That's who you are. And your beautiful voice. Not just the beautiful voice, but you can sing as well, which, again, helps make it unforgettable.

And, Mark, the thing I love the most about your presentation, this speech, is it stands the test of time. It's still relevant to this day. And it's also. It's outside of Toastmasters, because sometimes Toastmasters, we have a tendency to be, like, a little insular. And what I mean is we talk about Toastmaster topics or issues and things of that nature, but this is a message for the world. And the purpose of Toastmasters is not to be a good Toastmaster. The purpose of Toastmasters is to be great outside of Toastmasters, and this is perfect illustration of that.

And when we're done, Mark, I'm gonna have to jump on Dictionary.com to look up a lot of these words. Ed used onomatopoeia. That was my only one. After that, boom, I'm done.

Darren, you always say, and this could be my keeper kind of that. For anyone who wants to craft a good presentation, if they want to use these devices, there are online resources like rhymer.com thesaurus.com to give you the words, the language, and you can then apply and build into your own presentation for impact and for effect. It applies not just to Toastmasters, to anybody. You could be an attorney doing opening or closing arguments and find that these tools can be very, very effective to give your Audience, in your case, a jury or a judge, a picture of what you want them to see. So thanks for the metaphor, Ed. I appreciate the judge and jury and.

Lawyer, Honorable Ed Tate.

One final thought I didn't mention is, and I want people to, when they're watching your video, I want them to go to the 22 second mark. Mark has not said a word. And there are three qualities of an effective presenter. They are authority, energy, and awareness. Authority means that the speaker, the presenter, he or she owns the stage. Energy means that, hey, listen up, this topic is important, so that means that the subject is important. And awareness means that the audience is important. Mark does not say a word. He gets two of the three. He has authority, he looks like he commands the stage. And then awareness, he makes the audience feel as that, hey, this message is just for me. He hasn't said a word. He's just standing there. And I just want to. That's another insight for me.

Mark, your final thoughts?

Well, I'm going to piggyback on Ed's words there. You don't always, as a speaker, find yourself seeking after two, three, four or seven people. But if that does happen, it's important that you own that space, you own that stage. Because now you're tasked with having the audience forget the person who just spoke before you. Not just to forget them or disregard your content. No. But in the moment, they need to focus on you, your message, your style, your personality. And you need to give the audience time to. To decompress from the other speaker and to get to know you. So your opening will be really, really key. And Ed has always done that very, very well. And we'll get to the Ed Tate technique in a later podcast.

Ed Tate, high stakes presentation coach. If people want to learn more from you or get coached by you, how can they find Ed Tate?

Just go to the website edtate.comE-A-T-E.com cool.

Ed, super pleasure. I love watching you coach, man. You have such insights that even Mark and I don't see. So it's thrilled to have our brother here with us. If you'd like to know more from me and Mark or get connected to us, get some feedback directly from us, check out stagetimeuniversity.com. thrilled to have you here. Next episode, we're going to be dissecting my championship speech. Ouch. So we'll see you on episode four.

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