Ep. 41 Be Unforgettable In Multiple Markets with Mark Scharenbroich

All right, Mark Brown, take it away.

Hey, Darren. You know, as pro speakers, we often hear about being in our lane, having our niche. I mean, you've been done humor and comedy, and you also teach people well. But there's very few people in the world who have done very, very well in different areas of speaking. Continue to do well. And today I wanted to meet a buddy of mine who has just mastered this completely. What do you think, man?

Well, it's one thing to be good. It's another thing to be world class. And it's yet another to be world class in different areas. And, Mark, you got me pumped up. I've been studying him. I've heard of the legend. But to sit down with the legend, the man that can just reach in and grab the heart of the audience, like, I'm pumped.

Listen, let's meet our friend Mark Skahrenbach. Pause. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Sharon Brock. Come on, man. What happened was.

What do you do?

Let's rewind that, Mark. I'm gonna rewind that. Let's do it. Take two. You know what it is, Darren? His story.

He used to be called.

Somebody was gonna intro him one day, and they saw his name, Sharon Brock. And they said, scherembreich. And he told me that story 20 years ago. And it's in the back of my head all this time. So take two one more time.

Just so you know, I'm using take one and two as the opening.

Okay, here we go. Let's go. I'll go slower. Let's tell me where to go.

Go.

Hey, Darren. As pro speakers, we are often told to find our niche. You've done humor and comedy and also teaching, and I'm an excell guy. And performance. But very few people are like hybrids. They can do youth, they can do comedy, humor, serious. And my buddy today has mastered all of those. I can't wait for you to meet him. What have you heard about my friend Mark?

Well, he is the legend in the industry. And I remember I was watching a clip of one of his stories, and I like, in 30 seconds, I got teared up. I was like, how do you do that? But to have the ability to not just be good in one area, but be world class in one area. But then to change lengths and be world class in another area. Who does that? And what's the secrets behind Marc Sharonbrock?

Let's find out.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable presentations, podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas. Let's dive right in.

Man, I am so jazzed. I'm so thrilled. I might grow some hair for this one, man. It's so awesome. Mark Shat. Darren Brock, you are truly a legend. I can't thank you enough for saying yes to Darren and me. How are you, sir?

It's great to be with the world class speakers and coaches. You guys are incredible. I'm nervous because nobody coaches better than the tag team of the two of you together or individually. So it's great to be with you.

Well, Mark, I'm just so thrilled I see you're up in the cabin in Minnesota hanging out, just kind of chilling with your beautiful wife. And it's really, really.

Are you kidding me? Chilling. Ever since the pandemic, we've been here. There's no other place to go.

Listen, I'm so happy you're here with us because, you know, my mind goes back 20 years. It had to be late 90s. I had a gig in Canada in Nipple in Saskatchewan, Canada, and I was going to be one of the two Marks on the program. And the airlines were on strike and you could not get to this forsaken place in the middle of Canada. No offense to the Canadians, but I ended up being Mark Brown and Mark Sharon Brock. And of course I'm not the only one who first saw that name and said, okay, Mark. And I think you told me after we met that somebody was going to introduce you and they called you Mark Skerenbroich, which is kind of really interesting. But I knew you back then as a youth speaker. And over the years you've gone through so many different iterations. You've done so much, you've mastered so many things. And I'm really curious to know how it all began for you as a presenter. Mark.

Yeah, If I had known I was going to be a speaker, I should have changed my name to Brown instead of Sean. Why didn't I pick that lane? Memorable, you know, attending the Holy Spirit school in St. Cloud, Minnesota. The good sisters told us that God gave us all a gift. It was our job to find what that gift was. And if we couldn't find it, they'd find it for us. So they had us go into, they had activities, little Catholic school. From sports to music to the art festivals to the science festivals and speech, everybody had to get up and do a presentation. And I was the first one to sit down the spelling bee, but I kept going on this speaking thing. And so they were very big into it. And then. So in the elementary schools, we had speech competitions. Everybody was doing Classic Thurber. And way back then, and I was a sixth grader, and I had an elder, an eighth grader, that told me, hey, you know, there's this. There's this comedian named Bill Cosby, and he has an album called why Is There Air? And I pick it up and I played that thing until I wore it out. And I was doing Cosby when everybody else is doing Thurber, because good material is good material, especially when it's fresh and new and different. And you can win on good material and especially when it's somebody else's. But, you know, we got. So comedy early on in speaking started very early on, and then to a comedy group in high school and college. And when the group broke up, because of my wife, Yoko Ono, I started out as a solo speaker speaking in high schools. There's a difference between speaking and. Mark, you know this since you've been there, Darren, I'm not sure how much background you've had with the youth market.

I avoid it.

There's a difference between speaking to Fellowship of Christian athletes and 4H and talking to kids in a gym. There's a difference between talking to student council kids and 2,000 kids in a gym that are hoping that you fail just for the entertainment value. I think you do 3,000 or 500 presentations in gyms. It teaches you the art of speaking in a very painful way.

Wow. You learn the art of speaking in a painful way.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

That's.

Darren, you know it. It's. You've got to have the reps. You've got to. You've got to take every opportunity you can to get up there and in any situation possible.

You know, you. So you began in the youth market. You've done so much. I mean, you did film, you did books. You got. You got an Emmy award for your work with youth. Now people say, oh, Mark, you have an Emmy nomination. Say, yeah, I have a nomination. But this dude, the legend, he got the actual Emmy. He's got the real trophy in his house. I got a plaque.

But you begin with the youth.

And when I first met you, you were doing. I mean, you were rocking it with the youth. I remember seeing you in One program you had, you come up to end like a closing speaker, and you did not do what we all did. I was there. Norm Hull was there. Our crew from the circuit were there. And you went on stage and you sat at the edge of the stage and just talked to these kids about connecting the dots. That had to be 20 years ago, but I remember that you sat at the edge of the stage and I thought your style was so keyed on how do I connect with these kids in a way they can understand. And to know that you've done that with adults, with teens, with various audiences, people want to know, what kind of chops would it take to develop that kind of skill, to be that unforgettable? What lessons do you learn? What mistakes do you make and how you. How do you master just knowing how to reach that particular demographic? Wow.

Just in 30 seconds or less.

Some of the greatest lessons I learned were in the youth market because business people are just old high school kids. Instead of a gym, they're in a Marriott. And I think, because I remember the good ones, but I'll never forget the bad ones. I'll never forget the bombs, the failures, the painful ones, the ones where you had to win over or where it's. You don't think it's going well at all. But then afterwards they go, that was great. I mean, it's just. I see some speakers that are failing on stage and they don't know it. I know it because I know what it feels like, looks like, smells like. Just as now with the killing of George Floyd, this country learns from some of its darkest moments. The greatest light comes after the darkest moments for speakers. Some of the greatest insights come from when we walk across that stage saying, I blew it. I could have done better. And that's when we really learn how to get out of our own way. Darren, you talk about that all the time. Put your ego in your back pocket and know why you're there. Mark, you feel the same way?

Darren often asks. He asked pretty much all our guests about a time when they bombed or what they learned from it. Is there any particular time that you can think of? Because we hold you, honestly, Mark, in such high. Regardless. I mean, the NSA gave every single one of us the DVD from 2015 as a gift for the whole organization. That's how much we respect you. But are you willing to share a bomb and a lesson that you learned when you bond?

Take your pick. I mean, if you have a career that's long enough, quickly. Mark, did you ever speak the National Student Council Conference. The National Student Council?

Not that particular one, no.

All right, so if you're in the youth market, which I was for 20 years, being at the National Student Council Conference was. That was the event you wanted. That was a million dollar roundtable.

Mdrt. Right. Yeah.

Because that's where the opportunities would come. I mean, you've got to put yourself in a place where you can have opportunities, where people see you and bring you forward. You do great there. And then all these people bring to their state, local school conferences. And it was supposed to be in a performing arts center, but the planner decided to have it in an arena, a horse arena. It was in Oklahoma and it was in a horse. So they had. And instead the beginning of the day was the end of the day and everything ran late. They put the kids in buses, brought them to this horse arena. Now it's 5, 5:30. As soon as they're done, they get to go to a water park, an amusement park. They're hungry, they haven't given enough water. They do a horse show. And then this guy comes out and does song and dance ice. They had nothing left. I mean, it was like an audience that had been to a big buffet, eaten everything there was, and on the way out you go, do you want a steak? Are you hungry at all?

Wow.

And I rode out on a horse and got off in boots and stepped right into a pile.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Both literally and figuratively. And it was horrible. Even my wife Susie wouldn't walk next to me.

That was the boots, though. That was the boots.

I went on a fishing trip after that with my buddies. And the joke throughout the trip was, what do Mark schermbrock and Timothy McVeigh have in common? They both bombed Oklahoma, you know. Wow. Yeah. So that was a painful one. So what I learned from that, which is the key.

Yeah.

Don't always let the meeting planner decide where they're going to put you in the presentation. You have more input than what you think you do. Do not allow yourself to be put into a presentation. That's just. It's the last session, everyone's leaving, there's an audience, there's thousand seats, and there's 300 people in the room. Know that you need to control your situation. That's what I learned from that one.

Oh, that's heavy.

And Mark, when you switch from one brand to another brand, when you switch lanes, what was like the first thing you started attacking or learning or what did you bring over? Because like Mark said at the. Mark Brown said at the beginning is that to switch lanes is one thing, but to switch lanes and become world class in another lane, what did you bring over from that? What do you think was the essence or the strategies that most speakers don't know of or aren't aware of or need to own?

Yeah, you guys keep bantering the words legend and world class. And I really am uncomfortable because I think every time you're up on stage, you've got to earn it. Every time you walk up there, you got to say a prayer that I can hope I can earn this one this time. So that's very kind of you, but I don't see that at all. But as far as switching lanes, Darren, I had the chops from performing 3,500 times in front of students. And I'm now into my 40s, which quickly moves to 50. And instead of being that young speaker or that speaker that looked like the young dad or the speaker that now looks like their dad, I was turning into their grandfather look, which isn't good. So I can hear the talk clicking. So I've got to get out. Problem was I didn't have a message. I didn't have anything to say. I had the ability to stand up on stage, but no message. And I would start to take events like my aunt Loretta made me speak to the Central Minnesota Square Dance association, not even state association, the Central Minnesota Association. I started taking very small events with what I called adult groups, you know, which is a non student group. And I would slowly work material. It's kind of like when you see a comedian, the Jerry Seinfeld's of the world, when they still go back to small clubs and have notes in their hands. Have you seen the documentary called the Comedian Jerry Seinfeld? It's a great one for speakers to watch about how to develop and how painful the process is. And I guess I follow the same way of working small adult groups to find a comfort level, to find a message. And I just dinged around a lot. Thank goodness I had the youth stuff to keep me employed to keep the money coming in. But I had to make that transition. And I actually bumped into my message of nice bike, which was the aha. I think I found it now, Mark.

I remember when I first began to see that chair. I think at the time the first phrase I heard was something like little acts, big impact or something like that. But at the time I first heard that only a couple of times. The Nice Bike brand had not yet been created. But it seemed that you begin to focus on doing Little things to have big impacts on other individuals and people in society. And at what point did that idea hit right? You know, this is what my heart says. I need to get this message out. Having gone through all those thousands of talks to young people, was it a matter of trial and error? No, that's not it. No, that's it. That could be it. Ah, that's it. Because people are saying, I want to speak, but how do I find my message? And maybe your answer could at least guide them a little bit, you think?

When you work the youth market, what I learned is if you're in a gym, you've got to keep an eye on every single core, every single segment of that gymnasium. Because if you start to lose attention a little bit, it's like a cancer that grows within that section. And so you're constantly working every part of the audience, maintain eye contact. There's a number of different things you do to get it back. So some speakers are giving their presentation, but they're unaware of the audience. You've got to be aware of the audience. You've got to know in your heart your story, your material, where you're going to so, well, not that you're on autopilot, you're not, but that you're so aware of the audience, you know what's going on. If I'm with a group of executives in a Marriott ballroom, the last thing I want to hear is a pitcher of ice being poured into a glass. I want to have them so engaged that nobody's pouring water. I don't want to see anybody look at the agenda to see what's next, because then I know that I'm losing people. So, I mean, you keep an eye out for those things, right? And you also keep an eye out for the good thing. And I fell into the Harley Davidson 100th year anniversary and I'm not a Harley guy. I've never even, to this day, I have never even sat on one in the showroom. I've never been on a motorcycle in my life. I'm more of a pontoon boat guy. Not like Sanborn with his five Harleys and really nice looking black leather jacket. He does look, you gotta admit, Sanborn does look good in black leather, doesn't he?

He does, he does.

You and Sanborn, you are some period guys now.

Mark and Mark playing in his sandbox. The guy is brilliant. When I pulled over the venues, you'd see all these bikers around. I just kind of pulled over because I was curious, like we all are. And you'd see this big tough guy standing by his bike, and somebody would walk by and go, ah, nice bike. There's this instant connection being made. And the next day I'm talking to a group of teachers kicking off their school year in Neenah, Wisconsin, and I just kind of started rifting ad libbing on what was happening. You have to be aware of what's happening. You have to weave it in. Whether it is the pandemic, whether it is George Floyd and what's happening in our country right now, whether it's somebody that falls over in the audience, you have to react to it. And I just said, boy, have you seen the Harley Davidson thing? Yada, yada yada. When students walk in your classroom tomorrow and you go through all the names morning. Or you can say, oh, Darren, I'm so happy that you're in my class today. I've heard all about your wonderful speaking. That's nice bike. And the audience members nodded and a couple of them grabbed a pen out and I went, oh, oh, I think there's something here. The ad lib turns into a short story, the short story turns into a longer story, longer story turns into a segment of your presentation, turns into the premise, turns into the brand, turns into turns into everything. Because people kept coming up to us going after a presentation, hey, nice bike. And sue and I were going down the road one day kind of saying, what's our brand? Is it a nice bike? Is it simple acts, big impact? God, where should we go with this thing? And all of a sudden we were passed by this crappy little red car with a huge, big Harley Davidson logo in the back window. And we went, okay, we get it. Than.

A crappy car with a Harley logo. That's God's voice right there.

Nice logo.

But see, you just told us something, Mark. You were thinking, is it simple, active impact, or is it nice back? So you're willing to really put the effort in, collaborate with your wonderful partner sue, and to find out what is the best gift that I can offer to my audience. And throughout your remarks, you keep saying about the audience, you ask, you know, be aware of your audience. It's almost as if your audience is telling you, hey, Mark, this works. You kind of want to run with it. And has that always been your mindset? Let the audience guide me and help me to know what works?

Yes. I mean, most of my writing comes on stage. I wish I had the talent to sit down and grab some notes and come up with a really nice presentation to type it out. It doesn't work that way with me. It does with others, but for me, I just try things out. I think you have to be playful. You have to be playful on stage and make comments and tell a little story or say, have you seen? I mean, and just start with, it's not a presentation. It's a conversation to connect with the audience and the audience will react. And when they react, you write down what happened, and then you start to delve into that area more. Sometimes it develops into something special. Sometimes it's good, but not great. I mean, I had a really good thing with airline peanuts. Except Susie, my bride, Susie, she runs our business, does all the market. She does everything. She's incredible in the love of my life. She's also my speech coach. It would be nice to have a Darren and a Mark Brown in the back of my room every time to critique my presentations. I have sue that critiques my presentations because what we think we say and what the audience hears are sometimes different. So I did this little piece on airline peanuts, and when I got off the stage, he said, yeah, this, this, whatever. And by the way, I'm in the back of the room. When you hit the word peanuts, make sure you hit that T, Mark. Because the audience did not hear peanuts. They heard Caroline penis.

Yeah.

So I changed the story to almonds. It still didn't work.

Well, I love what you're saying, too. I think what you're keying on, just to paraphrase what you said, it's like you almost see what resonates because you're so aware and a lot of presenters aren't aware. But find what resonates and. And then build on that. I remember, Mark, you were around when this happened. In 2002, when I started touring for Toastmasters, I would say the cherry tree effect. And I said, here's what I'm saying. What do you want the audience to think about differently when you're done? And I would just see the heads go down and take notes, and it was just consistent. It was the middle of my speech, so I turned it and moved it to the end and developed it a little more. But I just love what you're saying, what works. And one of the golden secrets we give sometimes is record yourself every time, but keep the recording going when people are coming to talk to you after because you're on that speaker high and you get that cloud of wonderfulness going around you and you don't sometimes pick up those nuggets of what resonates.

Darren, that's a great Point. Susie and I went to hear a comedian at a comedy club and I thought he was great. And we're walking out later on, there he is in the hallway and when I go up to him, I go, that was a great show. But I was nervous. I don't know, I didn't. Not a famous comedian, just comedian. And it hit me, boy, if I'm nervous coming up to somebody and to say something nice to them, how do other people that are never on stage, how do they feel? Which means for people to come up to you. Because for years, especially when I talk to teacher groups, somebody come up and they'd always start with, yeah, you know, I got a cousin in Minnesota. Yeah, he's from Minnesota. They needed to give me something to start the conversation of why they could come up. Right. The point is when people come up to you, that takes a lot. For some people, instead of listening to the compliment, you always want to follow up with the whys. Wow, that's the best presentation I've ever heard. Well, first of all, you take that with a grain of salt, which means they've only heard a couple speakers. So the follow up question is. That's very kind of you. What made it different? Wow, that was a powerful presentation. What part impacted you? What really resonated with you? Well, I love that story about. That's so kind. Why did that make a difference to you? I think we have to use that as a sacred opportunity. Both number one, to show our appreciation to them, but number one, number two, what do we learn from what they're saying? Because I think that you do that enough. You find out which stories really do have an impact. More so than you thought. You find out that. And it shouldn't be just one story. You should hear about four or five different pieces within your presentation because there's different people out there in the audience. So I always take that opportunity a to be gracious and appreciate it, but baby, to learn from it.

And Mark, when I was studying you again, you talk about this hook with every story. You've got to find that hook. What does that mean and how do other presenters do it? Who want to be unforgettable?

Great question, Darren. First of all, we think people remember our names, but they don't, especially Sharon Brock. I mean, I heard a great speaker. What was his name? I have no idea what he talked about. Engagement, connecting with each other. No, what people will say is, oh, the nice bike guy. What's his name? I don't know, but he's the nice bike guy.

Google.

Nice bike. You might find him, I mean, Marilyn Sherman. Oh, the front row girl. Mark Sanborn. There's a lot of marks. Oh, the Fred Factor guy.

Yeah.

Okay, number one, that's a hook from a marketing standpoint, right? What will people remember you by? What are you, what are you going to. What's the story that they can Google and look up and find you? Number two, what do people remember? And you guys talk about this a lot. I really admire that about you. What do they remember an hour a week, six months, a year later, 20 years later? What words will come back to them? What powerful statement is going to stick with them? Imagine this. So you're speaking at a nice Marriott. It's. It went well. And Bob was in your audience. And Bob goes out to the pool where his friend was because the friend didn't go to the session because he's by the pool and the friend says, hey, how was the speaker? He was really good. What'd he talk about? He talked about, bam. What's that person? What's he gonna. What's Bob gonna say to the guy by the pool that missed the presentation? So that's what a hook is. A hook is something that is going to just stick with people and grab them and have them easily tell that to somebody else. What it meant and why now, Mark.

You having your arsenal. I mean, you don't want to hear it, but you got the total package. You invested time in a comedy troupe. You've done humor. We've seen you on the NSA stage, come out as a 200 year old guy and people wondering who was behind the hat and the beard. And about eight minutes in, oh, it's Sharon Bra. And you have done all that so well. Some people think they don't want to do drama. I'm a speaker, I'm going to deliver a message. Others say, well, I need to have something to complement my message. What advice would you give to even the emerging speaker who wants to be unforgettable, but they think I need less of this and more of that or vice versa. What would be your general advice be to an emerging speaker who's got this quandary in their head?

Mark Sanborn and my buddy shared with you that he wants to get people to think right. I want to get people to feel. Hopefully we can do both. I wish if I had the intellectual capacity of Sanborn, I'd get people to do both, but I don't. I'm reading right now. I brought it with me in case it came up two books, one Is this one's easier. It's a great piece.

Is that Tim Guards.

Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin about Lincoln, Lincoln's election, Lincoln surrounding himself with his rivals. But a lot of the book, it's an incredible read. It's an incredible story. It's about our history. You have to read it from the standpoint as an American to understand slavery and what we've gone through, where it came from, where we're going. But part of it, the reason I bring it up, is because Lincoln was a storyteller. His rivals were all well healed, well educated, came from money, and this guy was back in the sticks. But he was a storyteller. He put things in common, language, he moved people. He was not good looking, he was gangly, his clothes didn't fit well. But once he started talking, people were just in awe. When you talk about to a young speaker or to those of us that have been at the craft for a while, it's those stories and the relevancy of the story. Again, Sanborn, hit it really well. The relevancy. Look at every single audience member with every story you tell. And on the forehead you see the word so what? Great story. So what? What's this mean to me? How's this going to help my life? I'm happy you won the Olympic gold medal, happy climb on Everest, happy came from rags to riches, happy that you won the nascar. What's this do for me? What am I going to learn? How's this going to help my life? And what you'll find is you'll start to cull your stories because some of them have no relevance to the audience whatsoever. They're just a very entertaining thing for you to do on stage.

That's wise because, you know, Darren and I have been teaching for years now about stories and presenting and being unforgettable. And one of my mark isms is I tell people, look, a story, it's about you, but it's for them. And I have to go back to the story Darren referenced earlier because I played a DVD again, Mark, the story of your father and his buddies, not even discussing what they went through. And I was, I was gonna watch a clip, come back and watch another clip because I was doing. I was multitasking or trying to, but I could not get up. I watched you tell that story from your heart. You weren't trying to be impressive. You simply told a story. But it touched me so deeply. I'm thinking about my father and people who have served. I'm an immigrant who Came to this country with very little. But I know because of people like your dad, I get to live here and build a life. And I was just so moved. And it wasn't manipulative. It wasn't meant to. Let's get him and hook him. I didn't get any of that. I just got you sharing a part of your life in a meaningful way. And so many people don't realize a story well told, that's honest and authentic has such great power. Rely on our intellect and our big words and our knowledge. We fill the world with what we know. But it goes back to your first idea, simple acts, big impact. And when you first coined talking about simple acts, big impact phrase, what was the motivating factor behind that idea when it first came up? Because you applied it in your storytelling.

Again, we dropped. We had that for about that logo for about six months. It went nowhere. Mark. It's a good philosophy. I think a lot of us can perform. I'm amazed when I watch a Broadway show when they come to Minneapolis or if you're in Broadway, that these amazing performers in Les Mis or any other show make just under 2000 a week. They do seven shows a week. Incredible performers. And they make about under $2,000 roughly scale union. And we have. And we're out there making a bit more than 2,000 per presentation, I hope. My point is, a lot of people can perform, but the difference between a performer and a great speaker, that unforgettable impact is the writing. And I think when the writing comes from your own life, in your own life's experiences, although they seem simple to you, told right. With the right relevancy, can have a big impact. To answer your question, you can tell the story from your own life so much better than a Google story that you found.

Preach it, brother.

Nice. Mark.

I got to jump into on that story. When you tell it and all your stories, I think a lot of speakers have their own ninja skill or style. And I resonate with you because you are just that facial expression. When you take on a character you own, that character, like Will Ferrell has nothing on you. When you, you know, I came from.

Good.

I made him laugh. Yes. Okay. So when I came from the Toastmasters world, as Mark and I both did, and everyone has a different backstory.

You know, they talk about mastered the Toastmasters world. You didn't come from it. You. You were top of it.

They. They have the word gesture. And I hate the word gesture because gesture is an inauthentic body movement that has no Emotional. Emotional connection to that moment and to the emotion of the character. So for you and what you do, you have that ability to take on characters. Is that something you've always been good at? One of your ninja skills? Or did you really develop it from nothing? Just a. Where did that come from?

Two things regarding the gestures, Darren, that you understand so well. High school students taught me, you know, the word I learned a long time ago. That's recent with us is the word authenticity. Right. Programmed. It doesn't look authentic. And so high school students taught me how to be authentic. Because the moment you weren't, they had you for lunch, so you had to be real in front of them. It was a great. You can fake adults, you can't fake kids. But when it comes to characters, I don't use those who haven't heard me speak, which is quite a few. I don't use visuals, I don't use PowerPoint. I use nothing. I want to create the experience on stage. I want to create an experience. I want them to laugh, I want them to feel, I want them to think. I want them to go through an emotional roller coaster. So part of that, within my stories that are creating vignettes where these people come alive. And I always imitate people that no one's ever heard of because I can do a dead right imitation of them because nobody knows what they sound like. Yeah, Most of them are from my own life. And so there's a difference between putting on a mask for Halloween and putting on stage makeup. When you put a little plastic mask on, that's still you behind it. When you put the makeup on, you become that character. Sorry, it's a relevancy to our speakers are if you're going to do a piece, which you should. If you're going to talk about your parents, you talk about someone you want to do, and they've got a kind of a cool voice or characteristic start to play in the sandbox with. What do they sound like? What do they feel like? How would they do it? And then once you kind of develop your confidence, you go all in. You don't put the mask on, you put the makeup on, become that character. I mean, one of my characters is Leroy Radovich, a high school industrial arts shop teacher who I just love. Like, what did Leroy stand? Like, what did he sound like? What did his hair sound like? And oh, my God, I added the part. What does he smell like? He smells like Old Spice. A lot of Old Spice, which has become one of my favorite lines.

A lot of Old Spice.

Because you get three, four, five jokes out of it. Four laughs. As you understand. Leeward or Old Spice. For those of you young women that aren't familiar, Old Spice is a very expensive clone that us older guys wear. That when you walk by some of us older guys in the room and go, what's that smell? And then you kind of. You know, I used to leave the line like, that's Old Spice. And I got a laugh. And then I added, I'm wearing it right now. Which I was. And they laughed and went, no, seriously, I am wearing it right now. I got four laughs. Five. Out of one piece.

Out of one bit.

Yeah. Again, what's the thing? You keep playing with it. You keep. How far can I take this? Push it a little bit.

And Darren, you always say, test, test, test. Stage time, stage time, stage time.

Yeah, I like.

I like what he says. Better sandbox. Play with it in the sandbox. I think that's even better than what I say. That's awesome.

I'm. Stage time's good. I think I'd stick with that.

Well, I'm not switching over. I'm just saying yours is more brilliant.

So help us get inside your heart a little bit, because I know you are one of the most humble guys I know, and you don't like being told how awesome you are, but deal with it. You're on our show, so take it. Okay, But NSA comes to you and tells you your presentation is going to be the one that gets sent to every member of the organization. What's going through your mind when you hear that, Mark?

It was very humbling. It was a great honor, that presentation. I'd wake up in the middle of the night every night for three months and couldn't get back to sleep. I knew that would be my one last shot on the main stage for a full presentation. So that one scared the bejeebers out of me. I didn't want to overwork it, but I wanted to make sure that it hit properly. So it was. I was relieved that it played well.

I tell you, I have it here. Any NSA member should get a going. Going to your box of DVDs and find this thing.

And now we got to go buy it. We got to go buy a DVD player, though, because nobody has any.

Hey, listen, I could have a VHS player in my living room.

I have no doubt, Mark. I have no doubt.

That's the humbling part. Send out every member of WatchPlay 3.

Mark as a speaker in the audience to other speakers. Growing up in the speaking Industry. What unforgettable presentation do you remember being in the audience of? Who was it and why do you think it was unforgettable to you?

Oh, it's a great question. I remember Dennis Waitley. Remember Dennis Waitley? That name legend. Dennis was in the world of Zig Ziglar, Charlie Tremendous Jones, all the classics, right? And Dennis did not move, didn't gesture, no facial. And his storytelling and his relevancy and his insights were Just blew me away because of what he was. Because he was totally different than anybody else. Dale Irvin, his brilliance of being able to see something and then not just reference it, but come up with an incredible observation. No one has a mind like he does. Connie Podesta, I mean, boy, does she have the chops on stage that when she's up there. Talk about owning not just the stage, but the room. I mean. I mean, there's. In the world of NSA and outside of it, but those are three that come to mind that are incredible. I mean, Jeanne Robertson. Is there anybody greater than Jeannie Robertson as far as the writing? I asked her once, because I'm paranoid. I always have been about people stealing my material. To take my stories is like to take my children. You can take my car, but don't take my kids. And that's what my stories are. And so I hunt people down when I. We all hear about it. You can think you're in Omaha and nobody hears about you telling somebody else's story. We hear, and then we hunt you down because you steal from the creator and you also steal from your own creativity by using somebody else's material. And I asked Jeanne, I said, aren't you afraid of people when they take your material? She said, I just stay ahead of them. I just keep writing. They can't catch up with me. I mean, her performance ability, her timing, longevity, and writing ability. Is there anybody better?

Nope.

I have in my other office a picture of Walt Disney with his quote, they can copy me, but they'll never out create me.

Ah, same.

Yeah, that's.

That's. Wow. So, Mark, you listed so many great presenters, and when you were, you know, moving along in your career, was there any particular character trait or particular technique that you saw consistently being used by these greats that you said, I need to develop that so I could be unforgettable? To use our line from our podcast.

My greatest fear was to end up generic and be like everybody else. So the people I admired up on stage were the ones where I had my notebook out and my paper and I stopped critiquing and I went with them on the ride. That's when I know I'm with a great speaker. When I stop as a coach critiquing like you do, and I find myself saying, screw it, this person's great. I'm just going to listen and feel what's going on. That's when you know you're in the midst of an unforgettable speaker. And so my fear was to be generic and look and sound and be like other people to say what they're saying. And we can all talk about similar themes, but you better have a memorable approach. You go back to hook. Here's a great example, in fact, in this room, we were Preparing for the 2015 National Speakers Association DVD presentation. You talked about Mark.

Yeah.

And within my Nice bike premise, I talk about. I have a line about over delivering. But people hear the word over deliver a lot. And I was sitting to sue and I said, because she helps me write, I said, I need a better word for over deliver. And she said, baker's dozen. Said, what do you mean? She said, how many donuts in a baker's dozen? I said, 13. What's your 13th donut? That's over delivery. Oh, honey, that's really good.

Nice.

Yeah, the very first time I liked it, I thought, okay, I am going to use this with the speaker. I think this would be a good piece of. And I said, how many donuts? As big as a dozen. 13. What's your 13th donut? What do you bring that other people don't? What are you delivering on stage? That's above and beyond. People wrote down 13th Donut. So, I mean, it's a hook. It's different. It's saying the same thing over delivering, but it's with a hook or a phrase that's a little more memorable. Get it?

Oh, yes, wonderful. I remember that. What's your 13th donut? And you said you didn't want to be generic. So at one point, did you and sue kind of collaborate and say, okay, what's going to be the nice bike 13th donut? I'm just curious.

No, no. We just got every website possible with 13th donut, so we can come up with a book.

I love too, though. Here. I want to just pull back and make sure everyone's sees and highlights what you did. You saw that word that was overused, kind of cliche. And you said, what's a better way to do this? And I think that's what a lot of presenters don't do. And that's part of what makes you unforgettable. The question led her to the brilliance that you guys both agreed upon, you made happen and realize it stuck.

Yeah, it's almost like a 13th donut was your 13th donut, you know what I'm saying?

And go back to Abraham Lincoln. What you read in Team Arrivals is how he used very simple language analogies and metaphors that resonated with people.

Sounds like another guy we heard of.

Mark, I tell you, I just find this whole thing fascinating and I kind of want to just touch on the totality of the Mark Sharon Brock experience. You cut your chops in the youth market. Many people avoid it and many people sort of, let's be honest, you've been around for a lot of years and you know, some people think of it as, oh, that's just the youth market. What advice would you give to emerging speakers or even fairly established speakers who are in the youth market, but hear people say, oh, that's just the youth market. They're going to pay you less. It's not like the big league. How do you respond to that? How would you advise people who are in that market in terms of how they think about it?

Well, it's absolutely true, Mark. You know that when you go to NSA as a youth speaker, you can see it. Youth speaker?

I was youth program chair the year you won. You gave that speech. I was in the other room with the youth. That was.

I get it now. You feel like a. That's really sweet. That's nice. You play with the kids. Someday when you grow up, you work Marriott's, let me know. Yeah, look, it's just the way it is. All I know is I was at a school once. A big name speaker came in thinking that they would do a favor for the kids and do a presentation. They bombed terribly because they couldn't relate their stories. Was horrible. And they told the principal on the way out, I will never ever, ever, ever do that again my whole life. I mean, look, it's just the way it is. It's just the people that are out there, the Ed Garrity's or Chester started there. Mark Sanborn started there. There's so many great young women that have started there. Mark, you did the. Cut our chops in youth market. It's, it's undervalued as far as what, what they have done. Kevin Wanzer, I mean, go through the list. Norm Hall. I, I don't know. I don't know how to address that. It's just, it's just the Way it is.

But if we can understand that what we're doing is valuable in the youth market and see that we are actually having the impact with simple acts, having a big impact on young people. I mean, Willy Jolly began doing youth as well. Oh, yeah, I love Willy Jolly.

Willy Jolly. Just one of the greatest honors I've ever had. I received the cpae, which is the hunter of fame, Darren. I hope you're up for it again, Mark. You should be up for it again. You won't say whether you got it this year or not, Darren, but you should be getting close, brother.

I've never even been nominated, as far as I know.

Yeah, well, I kept nominating Willy Jolly because it was unfair that Willie didn't have it, and I kept fighting for that. The night that Willie Jolly received his cpa, he invited Suzy I to be at his table, which was my greatest honor at Innocent say, to be at Willy's table the night he received his cpae, which was so overdue.

You know what I'm hearing, Mark, is this. For those who may be unfamiliar with how things have gone in the National speaker association, many of those who we see as greats now did cut their chops in the youth market. It's not a market to be undervalued. It's a market that keeps you honest. It brings out the best in. When Darren. I remember Darren called me one day, he was in a panic. Mark, he's like, mark, Mark, I gotta talk to you. So what's wrong, dude? I got a high school. Said, when? In a couple of days. What do I tell these kids? And he was literally in a panic. And, yep, to me, it was like.

You know, well, you know, scariest audience ever.

Hey, Darren. How'd it go?

Thanks to Mark's techniques and help. Like, I didn't even know what the kids were talking about. It went better than it would have had I not sought the advice. But I just. I tried not to win them over. I tried to just be real and be with them and speak their language and just, you know, have the right intention. I guess that that's. That was the saving grace. Because most of my jokes and stories and humor are like, you're saying they were geared towards adult audiences. So I did not take it for granted and did not walk in with an ego.

Well, all right. So there's the lessons. You don't have to talk to youth, Mark, to understand the lessons. Number one, as Darren just said, your ego doesn't enter the room before you do. Your ego trails way behind you too many speakers, egos on their talent and who they are are way out in front of them, which they shouldn't be. Number two, the reps. Stage time. As Darren had mentioned, so. Well, I was doing 150 presentations a year, and I. I remember I spoke at a chapter meeting saying, boy, if I had less than 50 presentations, I don't know how I could perform. And a guy came up to me and said, I'm hoping to book 30 presentations here. What are you talking about? So it's the reps, it's the stage time, it's being up in front of it. And when you do some of these presentations where the sound isn't perfect, the light isn't perfect, the setup isn't perfect, you've got to learn how to adjust in these lousy situations to overcome them and connect with your audience. I feel bad for the speakers that are overnight wonders and they've never paid their dues because when they come down, it's going to be really painful because it's a short ride.

We want to honor your time, Mark. We really thank you for being with us. I got two important questions. One, when I see you on stage, you just have this unbelievable presence with the audience. What is the key or what's part of the strategy to connect with yourself before you go up on stage? Because I think a lot of people, they're trying to connect with the audience, but they forget they got to connect with themselves first. And you just have that presence. Where does that come from?

I don't know, Darren. I mean, I've always believe that you have to earn it. Remember the movie Saving Private Ryan? Yeah. The end of the movie when Captain Miller, which is Captain Miller, Tom Hanks, whispers something to Matt Damon, he whispers to Private Ryan. Earned this. Very first time I saw the movie, I didn't really understand. I couldn't hear what he said. And I've seen that movie 15 times. I watch it every D day. Earned this. That's been one of my core values in life. It was the amazing, graceful Naomi Rhodey who said the privilege of the platform.

Yeah.

To be able to walk up on a stage and be in front of people. Earn this. Earn this right to be up here. Earn this right to be in this profession. That's why I'm uncomfortable with anything that says master, legend, or anything else like that, because every time you're up there, you have to earn it. And I think that's what helps me get in touch with what I'm trying to do. Derek.

And do you do anything five minutes before. Do you have any like pre presentation routine at all?

I walk the audience quite a bit on what's happening before me. I'm totally astute to what's happening, what's said and done before me so that I can do a tee up, meaning if I can comment on something that happened just before me, something that was said, whether it was something powerful said by the CEO or marketing director, or whether something that happened that was kind of silly and I can make just a comment about it. If it's a common experience for all of us, we either feel or laugh. And I'm looking for an opportunity to open up with other than it's nice to be here today.

Call that king. I want to ask you one last question myself, Mark, in terms of your longevity and successful longevity, what are your views on mentorship? Having had mentors or being a mentor to others to help them to be unforgettable.

Just like the two of you. And I know it's happened. You have people that call you and ask you for advice or can we have a cup of coffee? And you both have had amazing careers. You've worked hard at it and you've got great careers ahead of you yet. And so all I would say is those people that say, hey, can I ask you some questions? Or take time out. 95% of NSA members go, Absolutely, happy to help you out in any way I can. I would just say to the person making the request, take a time out to write a thank you note when you're done. Because nine out of 10 people that ask for advice or insights say thank you very much, hang up the phone, read the email, call it a day. But they don't pick up the check. They don't say thank you. They don't do anything.

That's real, man. That's keeping it real.

If you want to learn from the Mark Browns and the Darren Lacroix of the world, say thank you to them when they're, when they give you some gold. That's all.

Thank you. And Mark, one of our other audiences is pastors. Any specific advice for pastors to deliver better sermons?

Okay. I come from a Catholic background or I went to church every Sunday with the priest reading the gospel and then retelling the gospel from the pulpit. No relevancy. And Father McGuire came to our parish. Irish priest. Can they tell a story? Yes. He left the pulpit and he walked into the pews, into the aisle and it was, it broke. It broke that whatever you call it, he was the most amazing speaker I had ever heard. Because he didn't do what was predictable. He didn't repeat. He prepared. He brought it to common language. He talked about the prison at St. Cloud that he visited and the man he had visited and his story and how that relayed to the gospel. I mean, stories. Who was the greatest storyteller ever? Why do we remember the stories of Jesus? He told us parables and stories that have lived for 2000 years. Stories and how they relate to our audience. Love God, love your neighbor as yourself. And there's never been a time where we need them more than right now.

Sage words. Mark, I can't thank you enough for sharing your heart, your honesty with us and being unashamed to touch some touchy subjects because you think they're relevant. You're still doing what you do people want to get hold of. Mark Sharon. What do they do?

I know people do Facebook and I don't check that very often. Just because you use instant messages mean that I read them, not instant message. There's gonna be something else and I'm just. I'm not there. I mean, I. The fact that I turned zoom on today is pretty impressive. Markicebike.com works really well, Mark. M e r k at nicebike n I c e b I k e nicebike.com is the best way to get ahold of me.

And nicebike.com is your website. They can see you in action, see, hear what you've been doing, man.

I nicebike.com. yeah, that's a great place to go.

I'm so pumped, man.

Darren and I just want to say, please tell your wife thank you for helping you be unforgettable on stage and really appreciate your time. I appreciate your humility, but we think you're a legend. And it's because every time you get up on stage, you earn it. Thank you, Mark sharonbrock.

Thank you, guys. You're amazing. It's been fun.

Mark Brown, take us home right now. Mark Sanborn is the one to beat.

I got notes and I used this nice pencil. Okay. Some of the. Mark Sharon, Brock Keepers. Okay. Some of the greatest lessons I learned, I learned in the youth market. The greatest insights come from walking off stage and bombing. Don't allow yourself to be put in a bad situation. As a speaker, always be aware of your audience and of what's happening and weave it into your presentation. Your audience tells you what works, and your talk isn't a presentation, it's a conversation. When someone compliments you, listen to the Compliment, Listen to it. But then follow up on the why dig deeper. Now, a performance and a good talk are different. How? It's the writing and the writing that comes from your own life. And listen to this. Your ego does not enter the room before you. It follows way behind. And always be aware what happens around you before you speak. Don't just come and speak. Be a part of the experience. And he did say this. I don't want to change your mind. I want to change your feelings. Thank you so much, Mark, Darren.

All right, we got two more and these are brilliant. We learn from the audiences that we had to win over. That's when we take a new lesson and we internalize it. It becomes a part of us. All right, three, the sandbox. Like, play with the sandbox. Take the idea, take the story, play with it, have fun with it. And I write like you, Mark. Mark Brown made me write out my speech. I'm like, no, I don't work that way. I gotta work it out on stage. So, Mark Brown, thank you. It helped though, Mark. But here's the best one. Are you wearing the mask or are you wearing the makeup?

Oh, yeah. How did I miss that?

I don't know, but sometimes you leave me some bread crumbs. Mark Brown, take us home.

Mark, Sharon, Brock, it has been such a joy hanging out with you today from a beautiful cabin in Minnesota while we're here doing what we do. Listen, my friend, I want to thank you so much for giving us the wisdom, the depth of your insight and no matter what you say, to many of us you are and you'll always be a legend. Friends, stay with us. Well, listen. Listen to us. Every single week. We want to help you not just give a presentation. We want you to be unforgettable.

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