Ep. 55 The Art of Unforgettable Story Crafting with Craig Valentine

Hey there, Mark Brown. How are you, man?

I am doing really, really well today. It's near the end of the week. It's a nice day outside, and we've got some great company inside. Don't you agree?

Absolutely. Probably the most quoted person ever on our podcast. Well, Craig says. Well, Craig says. Craig says. Thrilled to have him. We've been talking about him all along. Ladies and gentlemen, we are about to dive into Craig Valentine, who I believe I don't know about you, Mark, is the greatest teacher and of storytelling out there. What do you think, man?

I can't wait. Let's do it, brother.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix.

And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas? Let's dive right in.

All right. I don't want to waste any time. Craig Valentine, welcome.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was glad to be here. I'm glad to be the most quoted person on the show. Hopefully I can quote myself today. I can remember what I talk about. I was glad to be here. Like I was telling you before the call that life is happening. And we dropped our daughter Tori off at school, at college, and it was one of those. One of the hardest things you had to do. The move in was two hours. We took seven hours because we just didn't want to leave. And I can tell you, Mark, you probably know about this, but when it was time for her to finally go in the dorm and we were about to leave, my wife and I just started hugging each other. And I could feel the tears coming. And right before the tears came, my son ace, who was 15, he said, you did it. You did a good job. You got that first kid out the way. Great job. Let's go home. And I just started cracking up. We started cracking up. And it just goes to show you that sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying, as they say. But also makes a really good storytelling point, just diving right in that you gotta bring people back up, right? Like, I don't know about you, but I've coached people and their story just goes down and down and down. And I'm like, are you a demotivational speaker? I was happy before I got in here today, so you gotta have some levity. You gotta be able to uncover some humor. And if you take us through a problem, make sure you take us through a payoff. So many things when it comes to storytelling that we can dive into today, but that's what I'm going through now. And, Mark, I know you've been through it.

Oh, well, here's the cool thing. It's one more story to use in a presentation down the road. Right?

Well, I'm working it out with you two today. That's the story I'm working out right now. But, yeah, and Mark just married his daughter off, so life happens. But when it comes to things like that, I'm always looking for what is the point that that story makes? Or what is the story that can go at that point?

Right.

That's what my whole life is about. That's it. What is the point I can make with that story? Or what is the story that can go at that point?

And if some people don't know, you won the 1999 World Championship of Public Speaking. I've known you since 2001. But let's go back to. First of all, how did you even get into presentations or speaking?

A tough transition from college into the real world. And I remember I was living with. You know, I'm Darren. I live with my roommate, Scott. You remember, Scott did the program for us, and I didn't know what to do. And I went to him one day. I was like, scott, because I had five jobs and I failed every single one of them. And I went to him and I said, scott, I don't know what to do. I got these five jobs and I failed them all. And I said, I got these good jobs I can't even hang onto. And Scott said, well, don't forget about that bad girlfriend you can't let go of. And I was like. I said, well, what do I do? But from that day, he told me, Scott was like, why don't you go to the bookstore and read and start developing yourself? So, Darren, that's exactly what I did. I went to the bookstore. The first book I got was Live youe Dreams by Les Brown.

Les Brown. Yeah.

Right. And it just kind of struck something in me, so I started reading more and more and more books. Well, to make a long story short, Darren, most of the authors were speakers. And that's what kind of put the bug in me to speak.

Gotcha.

But it took years to gain the courage to join Toastmasters. And I ended up joining Toastmasters. And the very first meeting I Did the table topics, and I won. And then I was hooked. Little did I know that my club always makes the guest the winner.

Nice.

Yeah, they want to bring you back. That's one way I was hooked. And then I joined the contest, and the first contest I got into was the humorous speech contest. And I lost at the club level. Wow. At the club level. I'll never forget Alan Mish, a speaker, a seasoned toastmaster, came up to me afterwards, and he was like, craig, you can win the world championship of public speaking. And I was like, what are you talking about? I just lost a humorous speech contest at the club level. He said, that's okay. He said, the only thing wrong with your humorous speech was that it wasn't funny.

Real confidence builder there, right?

Real confidence builder. He's still a friend of mine to this day, and if it wasn't for him, I probably wouldn't have gotten into the contest. So I've got to thank him. But what a world we live in. That comes full circle, because a couple of weeks ago, guess who I get a call from? Les Brown. Oh, wow. Les Brown. And he says, this is how the world works. I was in such a place where I was so busy, I didn't even call him back right away. So I called him back about a week later, and he answers the phone and he says, craig Valentine, I've been walking around all day today, and I ran into 15 people outside who were just crying. And I went to them, and I said, why are you crying? And they said, because we can't believe that Craig Valentine treats you the way he does. Then we started having a conversation. He said, you know what? I really believe that you're the best trainer in the industry, and I would love for you to do a product with me. And I said, well, that's kind of interesting, because I'd love to do a product with you too. And so we're putting together a product called Legendary Speaking. And I'm so excited to be working with him, but it just comes full circle because it was his book, Darren, that got me started in the first place.

And Vigo is a great story right there, Darren.

Yeah. And what was the draw? The magnet to storytelling? Because you could teach a lot of things, and you do end well, but, like, storytelling seems to be, like, one of your strengths. I just. I can hear a story from Craig Valentine 13 times, and I even know what's gonna happen, but you just. You have it down. How did that get?

Well, thank you. And honestly, you've heard my stories more than 13 times. So I appreciate you for continuing to listen. It wasn't me. It was the market. I was just speaking, and people were telling me, we like your stories. Can you teach me how to do that? Like, I remember in 1999, Mark, soon after I won the world championship, I got a call from a guy who said, craig, this is Wade Randolph, and I would like for you to coach me on my stories and on my speaking. And I said, wade, I'm not a coach. I'm just a speaker. I said, I wouldn't even know where to start. He said, I'll pay you. I said, that's a good place to start. And I'll never forget we met at the Martin Luther King Library in Washington, D.C. and I started coaching him. And as I coached him, I had no idea what I was doing. But he kept wanting to come back for more, and I got more and more clients. And Darren, for some reason, people just kept saying, I want you to work with me on my stories because we like your stories. And so understanding that your market will create your message for you if you listen hard enough, I started looking at myself as a storytelling person. And then I really started to dive into the craft of it. Darren, I can't remember the name of the person who came to one of our. I think it was even lady and the Champs in Vegas. He was a football player, an ex football player.

Do you remember Steve Watson? Watson.

I knew it was Steve Watson. Yeah, Watson. He taught me something very important. And I had already been doing this, but he kind of crystallized it for me. Once I learned that storytelling was my thing, I didn't just study speakers and storytelling. I studied around the periphery of it. And that's what Steve really got across to us. Even though I had been doing it. I studied screenplay writing, right? The best book I ever read on storytelling was how to Write a Damn Good Novel. I believe the guy's name is James Gray. So I studied just the periphery around it and started really seeing from a lot of different angles what makes a good story. What makes a good story. And I tell you this just to tap off the story that I was telling you before. What I didn't tell you about when I bought that book called Live youe Dreams by Les Brown was when I was walking out of that bookstore. The lady who rang me up, as I was walking out, she said, hey. And I said, yeah. And she just looked at me and she said, good luck living your dreams.

Oh, that's nice.

It was really nice. So, Mark, after I won The World championship. I said, I gotta go find that lady, right? Cause now I'm living my dream. I gotta go find that lady. And my wife Casey said, why don't you drive back up to Cockeysville where you used to live, because it's only been like four or five years and you can find her and you can thank her. And that's the only thing I wanted to do. So I drove back up to Cockeysville. I went to the place where the bookstore was.

Oh, wow.

And it was no longer a bookstore, but that's where it hit me in that moment. And I tell my audiences this all the time. I wasn't supposed to find her. I was supposed to find you.

There you go.

Boom. And let you know that, you know, good luck living your dreams. So it's kind of a. That's a. That's a story that I end a lot of my keynote speeches with. There's more to the story than that. But Darin, to make a long story short, my market told me that I was a storytelling guy. So shouts out to Wade Randolph. He's still a good friend of mine and a certified world class feeding coach.

And this journey you've been on, I mean, you create your own storytelling model. You teach you coach, and it found you, but you were ready to receive it. And it has literally transformed your life. And the idea of being a storyteller wasn't forefront in your mind, but as you said, the market will create your message. And it found you. And since you had the epiphany, the revelation, what has driven you to help people develop their. What is your main function when you quote someone on the art of storytelling? What is there one overarching lesson you want them to walk away with when they work with you?

Well, there are a lot of lessons. I think the first thing is to figure out what are you really trying to say, you know? And that's why I focus on the foundational phrase that Darren and I talk about a lot. So, for example, I talk about how I should have brought it over here. I got the trophy right there. But I talk about how being a world champion is a blessing and a curse. Because two days after I won the world championship, if you've been walking towards me in the Chicago airport, you would have seen my wife on one side of me and me holding that gigantic crystal trophy, just walking through the Chicago airport. Mark, Everybody's looking at me like, who is that? Yeah, I'll be honest, Mark, I thought I heard some lady say, is that Denzel Washington? Hey, man, you didn't have to laugh that hard. But this is my real life.

All right, my man. Okay, okay. All right.

That's a training day, Denzel, right there. But this is why I realized my life would never be the same. This particular petite lady in a pink dress runs up to me in the middle of the airport. Everybody's watching, and she starts reading the bottom of my trophy. And she says, 1999, world champion of public speaking. Wow. Say some things. And I'm speechless. But that's when I remember thinking, no matter where I go in life, people are going to say, would you mind saying some things? So I came to a fundamental understanding about my life as a speaker. Really, really about yours, too. When it comes to speaking, I can no longer get ready to speak. I have to stay ready to speak. My new motto is, don't get ready, stay ready. So, Mark, let's just stop right there. When I first started telling that story, I didn't have that foundational phrase. I didn't have that point. I just told the story and just kind of let it go and let people get what they got from it. But now, when I started driving home, the point, don't get ready, stay ready. People tweet it, they retweet it, they repeat it, they remember it. And that's the way you're gonna make a longer term impact on your audience. Because then when they get to that next fork in the road, are they gonna get ready or are they gonna stay ready? Are they gonna realize that their dream is not for sale? Or are they gonna go and work for somebody else for another hundred years? That's one of the most important things that I wanna get across to them is tell your story, make your point. Foundational phrase, fewer than 10 words. And the reason it should be fewer than 10 words is when I asked my audience, they said, what? So it can be remembered. But the number one reason why it should be fewer than 10 words is because it forces you to be crystal clear on what your message is. The number one reason a speaker won't get his message across is because he's not crystal clear on what his message is. So fewer than 10 words forces you to be crystal clear. And here's the other thing, and I'm getting this across to, believe it or not, scientists. I'm getting it across to scientists next week when I work with the alliance for the Chesapeake Bay out here, because sometimes when you're a scientist and you know so much about a topic, you can start going off in tangents. So I always tell people, you ever wondered what to keep in your message and what to keep out? The phrase determines what stays. The phrase determines what stays. If what you say supports your foundational phrase, keep it in. If it doesn't, toss it out, even if it's good. So all the scientific information they know about the contamination of the water and the milliliters and this amount and this, you don't need to have that in. If it doesn't support your message about there's a way for you to save the bay. If it doesn't support that message, you don't need to keep it in. Give you a real quick example, Darren, real quick example of what I'm talking about here. 2012, the Summer Olympics were in London, right? And the oldest Participant was a 74 year old equestrian from Japan. 74 year old equestrian from japan. So my 7 year old son Mark knows, and both of you know him, Ace. My seven year old son Ace and I were watching this on TV and unfortunately all the commentators kept harping on was the guy's age. They just kept saying he's 74. Can you believe he's 74? By golly, he's 74. And finally my son looks up and says, well, how old is the horse?

Love that.

Exactly. About a week later I couldn't get that question out of my mind. So I googled it and they asked this man, they said, well, how long will you continue to compete? Guess what his answer was. He said, I can go on forever, but my horse is 15. And that's when I realized that Ace's question was much more relevant than I thought. And even though he was only seven years old at the Ace, not the horse, seven years old at the time, he taught me something very important about being great at anything, about being remarkable at anything. Never Stop asking questions. Now let me stop the foundational phrase for that story, which is not a great phrase, but it's a memorable one. Never Stop Asking questions. So let's look at that story for a second, Darren. The reality of that story was my wife was with us, my daughter Tori was with us. We were in Houston. Not only were we watching the Olympics, but my kids were competing in the track Junior Olympics and they were winning national championships. And guess what? None of that made the story. All of that ended up on the cutting room floor. Because of what? Because none of that supported Never Stop Asking Questions. Right? So it always goes back to what is the foundational phrase and that's what you're going to use as the barometer for what sticks with you and what doesn't. That concept alone right there can save people a lot of time on developing their stories. And I always tell people the more time you spend on a story, the shorter it should get.

That's right.

Amen. And, Mark, I love that Craig has rhythm and rhyme all the time. I think he must.

That sounded rhythmic right there. That's good.

When he explains his foundational phrases and teaches about it. The way he explains it has rhythm to it. You know, you gotta leave it in.

And I'm having fun. Oh, man, you're starting to rhyme. You're starting to have that rhythm.

Oh, I pick it up.

I can't.

Yeah, I can't help it. Are you related to Nipsey Russell?

No, I'm not. I'm not. Big fan, though. Big fan. Oh, man. I even. I like Cassie Russell, too. I like all the Russells. I'm good. I'm old school.

Nice. So, Craig, before, I want to go a little deeper into storytelling, because this is about unforgettable presentations, and unforgettable presentations, really, the key to making them unforgettable is storytelling and the foundational phrase, that's what gets it to stick. But you have one story, because I know we have some super pros who are eager to get better. We also have some emerging presenters. If you could just tell us you had a job setting up meeting rooms before you were a speaker just to inspire people. Could you just let them know where you were and what you were dreaming of?

I was an events planner for a technology expo company where we would go around and companies like Microsoft and Dell and intel and all them would set up. One of my responsibilities was setting up the stage for the speaker, just like you said. Now, can you imagine that? All the while wanting to be the speaker. So I would go into these ballrooms, and I would lay down the power cords, tape them over. I would move the chairs around. I'd move the lectern up front. Mark, I'd move some more chairs. They used to call me the chairman because I used to move so many chairs all. But it never failed. Every single solitary time, and this was pretty much daily. I would go into one of those ballrooms. I would walk to the front, and I would stand behind the lectern, and I'd look out on an empty audience. And I'd always hope that one day people would show up to see me. And Mark, I knew I would be sharing this one day. So it gets kind of emotional. But every single time I stood behind One of those lecterns. I always said the same thing to myself. I said, today I move the chairs, tomorrow I move the audience. That was really the start of it. I would say, if you can see it, you can be it. You can view it, you can do it. I had to see it first. I had to do what I call. What I like to call now, TEG T E G. Where you temporarily experience your goal. You can't just imagine it. You got to find a way to temporarily experience your goal. Like, even the house that I live in now, I went to. This was all sparked because we went to visit my friend Mara, and she had this beautiful house, and we were in it. And when I was in the basement of the house, just relaxing and real comfortable, I said to myself, this is how we need to be living, right? So just being with her for the weekend and my family for the weekend, we temporarily experienced that goal. So as a speaker, find a way to temporarily experience. I'll tell you something else, Darren. I don't think I ever told anybody. One time, when my wife, Casey, she was my fiance at the time she was at Georgetown, we went to a play. And at the end of the play, the audience gave them a standing ovation. It was a small theater. Sounds kind of selfish to say this, but I closed my eyes. And when they were given the standing ovation, I imagined it was for me.

There you go.

But I've never forgotten that moment. I've never forgotten that moment. And that was another way to temporarily experience it. So, Darren, that's that story.

Cool. And so, Craig, we have people who are super pros, and I know a lot of people give the same presentations and tell the same stories over and over again. And you said something once that still sticks with me today. You kept getting asked over and over again to give your championship speech. And you said something brilliant. You said that I don't live there anymore. I think that's a key principle. To tell an unforgettable story is knowing when you've got to let go of a story because that message or that issue doesn't resonate with you anymore. To find the new ones that do. Could you speak to that?

Yeah. There are several stories I don't tell anymore. First of all, Darren, so many people contact me nowadays and say, I can't find your world championship speech online. I said, you won't. You won't. But the other thing is, when they've asked me to give it or to give the snake bite, which was another speech that people really loved I said, I don't live there anymore. Think about this. The snakebite was a speech about forgiveness. I had to forgive a girl who did something wrong to me back when I was getting out of college. Well, guess what? I've been married for 22 years. I've got kids. I'm not worried about that girl. I don't live there anymore. And it's something I tell my audiences all the time. I say, you know, if you're holding a grudge, that grudge is also holding you, right? It's holding you back from being what you can be, doing what you can do. Like people say, you gotta let it go so you can grow.

And so does anyone else in your family. Think in rhymes?

I don't know.

I'm better at it because of you.

Little phrases, right?

But that's gonna be remembered, you know, people will remember that. You know when you're holding a grudge, when you're holding a grudge, that grudge is also holding you. And I know when Tori was giving a speech, my daughter was giving a speech at school, she quoted that line and her classmates clapped. And that's not something that usually happens in high school.

What I appreciate about that comment is, and as Darren says, for seasoned pros, as you know, as a pro speaker yourself, we have this concept of our signature stories. We all have them, and we are endeared to them. And they're us, they're our experience. But the point you make is about it. Sometimes the experience that we have is ours. It's not worth resurrecting it and sharing it, because every single day we have new experiences. Every single day we have new interactions, and every single day we have new stories. You have a brand new signature story about bringing Tori to college and your interaction with Ace. And when you flesh that thing out, it's going to be one of your signatures. So we want our listeners, viewers, to understand not every story from your past may be the most valid story to tell. We're going to bring you back 22 years to an old girlfriend. You really need to do that. I see the point. So I would ask everyone here to think about your treasure trove of stories. And we say keep story files, but are there stories there that really won't serve you and your clients well? There may be one or two. I'm not saying to dump your story file. No, no. I'm saying maintain your story file. But ask yourself, will these stories best serve my audience in the context of my life? Now, based on where it was, it's a new concept, Craig, that nobody has shared with anybody on this podcast in over a year. So, personally, I'm glad you mentioned it. And it makes me think about stories I have in the back burner. Will they really serve my audience best or serve me best at this point in time? So it's worth thinking about, really.

For me, I've always said this. It comes down to the 8020 rule. From year to year, 20% of my stories that I have probably are going to drop off. Okay, I'm going to keep 80% of them. The other 20% are going to drop off and make room for new content, new material each year. I always say abc, right? Always be creating. Always be creating. That's what I said earlier on the podcast, that whatever happens to me in my life, I'm always looking for what point can that make? Or if I'm thinking about a point, I'm always looking for what story can help make that point. Because, Mark, it also comes down to the audience. Right. You can't give your signature story if it doesn't fit that audience. And sometimes earlier in my career, I tried to force that. I was in Grand Island, Nebraska.

In there.

Yeah. Yeah. And I went to speak to Principal Financial Group. Same thing. Right. I'm glad you were. I don't know if you went before me or after me, but hopefully you didn't make the mistake I made. I went there and I gave the story about your dream is not for sale. That's one of my signature stories. Your dream is not for sale. Well, most people in corporate America are dreaming about working somewhere else. Right. So that story was more for entrepreneurs rather than people working in corporate America. And I'll never forget the person who brought me in. She contacted me afterwards and said, craig, people were so excited about your speech. One of our vice presidents was so excited, he left the company. Yeah, he left the company, asked me if I've been invited back. So sometimes it comes down to who is the audience. But I can agree with you and Darren Moore that sometimes there are some stories you just have to let go because you just don't live there anymore. I'm glad you brought that up because nobody that's interviewed me has ever brought that up. So that's very important.

Here's one of the key critical technical factors too, Craig, and speak to this. I think it also affects your personal delivery of that story. If you're not living, you're not excited about that message, so you're not gonna deliver it with that passion and enthusiasm. You're just gonna tell it. How do you think it affect delivery?

I think it does. I think you even my imagination story, where at the end you say, you know, imagination donation and this and that, It's a really good story. It's about imagination. It's about visual. But I got tired of telling it. It just for some reason, I just wasn't living there anymore. And I would get to a point in my speech and I would. And I would say, oh, no, that story's coming up next.

Oh, man. Ouch.

Oh, wow.

I don't know if you've ever been there, but that I was like, oh, man, that story's coming up. I don't want to tell it. And so that's another clue for you to know. Hey, it's about time to retire that one. People can still listen to it on audio or see it online and on video, but it's just. It's time for something new to take its place. It definitely affects delivery. Now, there's some other stories that I tell over and over again. And people say, well, how do you keep it fresh? And I use what I call the bounce method. You know, the dryer pads that you put in bounce. You put one dryer pad in, it makes the whole load fresh. Well, that's what I make. One change in the story. It might be a change in a word, it might be a change in a look, it might be a change in us, whatever. One change. And it just. And I'm like, how's the audience gonna get that one? How they gonna react to that? And that makes it fresh for me. Again. So that the bounce method has been a really good one for me.

And I wanna be clear. You're not telling our listeners to toss all their old stories out. That's not what you're saying. But there are times when you realize, you know what? It's gone to its expiration date. Some are timeless, some are endless, and some are truly our signature. We'll always tell them. But I like the idea of assess what you have. And if you're feeling, oh, boy, not again. Your heart and your desire to serve your audience is telling you it's time to change it. So one small change, freshen the whole.

Load, the whole thing. And the other thing about storytelling is, you know, you got to make sure it's for them. You got to make sure that you're telling the story for them and not for you. And then you also have to realize that it's important to be able to sell your message. So I always talk to people about selling. And I talk to them about, you know, never sell a product. Always sell the result. Always sell the result. Never sell a suggestion. Always sell the result. I give this example years ago when I wanted to buy my first car ever in life. I went to the dealership. Salesperson came up to me, says, are you looking at that car? I said, yes, sir. He said, great, let me tell you about it. This car has these types of features, this type of window, this type of this, this. What's he trying to sell me the car, Right? I said, I never sell a product, Always sell the result. So I went to a different dealership same day, different salesperson, same car. Now, Mark, I gotta be honest. This guy must have anticipated where I was mentally in my life at that time. You know, young and single and looking to mingle.

There you go.

Feel free to get more rhyme. Walks up to me, he says, are you looking at that car? I said, yes, sir. He said, you're gonna look good in that one. He said, yeah, man, you're gonna be flying down the road. The wind's gonna be blowing through your hair. And the girls, let me tell you, the girls will be all over you. I said, where do I sign? But see, he made the sale not because he sold me the car, but he sold me the result. And he lied. I'm lonely in that car. Just me and my payment. But I always tell people, don't sell the product. Don't lie, but don't sell the product. The idea, the change, always sell the result. So what's in it for them to hear that story?

You know, I really appreciate that because I've been teaching this one concept. Your story is about you, but it's for them.

Oh, I love it.

Yeah, it's about it. Thank you, Darren. Your story is about you, but it's for them. If all they see is you, they can't. If they can't see themselves else in the story, they can't connect. If you can't tap and transport them into your story, if they can't connect with you, then you wasted the point. And as a storytelling expert, I reference one of a Craigism. Tap and transport. We don't want to reveal all your secrets, Craigs. I'm going to add one more.

Since I brought it up, if I said it, you spread it. No problem.

This guy's Russell, move over. This guy's got it going on. So I mentioned you want to tap and transport a Craig Valentine concept. Could you briefly share with our listeners and our viewers what that Represents.

Yeah. You want to make sure that your audience has a reason to come on that journey with you. Right. So, for example, with one of my signature stories, I'll say, what do you think is the number one thing that stands between most people living their dream? And they give me answers like fear, lack of time, lack of money, this and that. I say, those are great answers, but they're wrong. They're not wrong. They're just not my opinion. The number one thing that gets in the way. The number one thing is not what you think. See, I used to work for Home, and then I'm going in my story, right? Right. So I'm tapping into my audience's world with a question or a statement or something that gets them to reflect upon them and then I'm teasing them to want to know more. No, that's not the number one thing. The number one thing is not what you think. And then I transport them into my story. So it's important to make the audience curious.

Yeah.

I might ask them, you ever gone to a drive thru restaurant, placed your order and been misunderstood? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, for legal purposes, I can't mention the name of this restaurant, but its initials are kfnc. And then I'm going through that story, right? So tapping into their world just to make them know, hey, there's a reason for you to come on this journey with me. And at the end you'll have something that you can take with you. So as Mark, you say that it's about you, but it's for them. And I always like to say, let your story become their story, then we can make history. If you do that, I think that's very important for them to. And I also learned a lot from Darren in terms of mimicking correctly. And every workshop that I give Darren, I mention you so often in this section because there are people who will talk about being on the phone last week and they'll say, I was on the phone last week, right? And Darren and I are always like, what phone is shaped like that?

Last week, last millennium, maybe.

Next thing you know, you're gonna be dialing like this, right? So I tell people, I say, put the phone up to your ear, take it away, there's your phone, right? And then when I quote Darren is when, you know, we're talking about people who get up on stage and they're like, I was driving around the road the other day and I say, I was doing a workshop with Darren Lacroix and he asked the guy, were you driving space shuttle? Why Is it so big? And last example I'll give, I was in. I was in Guangzhou, China, the southern part of China, and a lady got up to give her speech and she said this, she said, I went to my 4 year old daughter and I said, honey, wow. And I was like, I'm in China. So I was like, is your daughter Yao Ming by any chance? I'll tell you what, I gave that to the Chinese, to their audience, they just broke out.

They were Yao Ming, tiny basketball player. For those who don't follow basketball, Yao.

Ming was what, seven, seven feet seven.

I think, tall, Chinese pro basketball player.

Awesome. Yeah.

And if you're listening, if you're listening to the podcast, Craig looked up talking to the four year old. So that is. Obviously there's a disconnect in the audience. And now their brain has to go figure out, wait a minute, what does he mean by that? When, when you're in line and it's quote unquote, realistic, pantomiming, like you're there, it enhances, it clarifies the story.

Everything has to be clear, right?

Craig? We work with a lot of pros. We actually, we recorded one of these podcasts and we coached Michelle Villalobos. Villalobos, like. And it's great working with pros who are eager to learn because a lot of them are like, it's good enough. I'm booked enough and that. So they don't wanna do the work. So it's refreshing when you meet some people who are good and want to get better. Here's the question. What are some of the mistakes that you see even pros doing in storytelling that are disconnecting them or ruining their story?

I would say too much narration, not enough dialogue. Not enough dialogue. When I look at my storytelling model, conflict is the hook to a story. But dialogue is the heart of a story, right? Dialogue is what really pumps blood into the story. So, like, for example, they would say something like, and then I was expelled from. I was expelled from my high school by the principal. Okay, that's one thing. But what if you said. And then the principal looked at me and my parents and said, Mr. Valentine, you are expelled. You can feel that, right? And it's very important to use dialogue so that you can feel it. And here's the other thing that speakers don't talk about, people don't talk about, Darren, is you can't react to narration. You're the one who told me and taught all of us that reactions tell the story. You can't react to narration. You can only react to dialogue. Think about it. Let's go back to that same scenario. If the person was using narration and said, and that's when the principal told us that we were extolled from the school. You can't react to that.

Well, you wish you could see their faces face on audio.

What?

You can just, just imagine what he looked like just now. Friends.

Yeah.

Giving a look of confusion and like, so. But if you say. And the principal looked at us and said, Mr. Valentine, you are expelled. See that? I'm like, what, what, what? You know, so you can react to that. You can't react to narration, but you can react to dialogue. And when I'm working with prose, sometimes I always say, you always have to put the most important lines in dialogue. Some of them have been diagnosed with cancer and they're not even telling it from the doctor's perspective of putting it in dialect. It's a life changing moment. So we need, and this is the key, and this is a secret that a lot of speakers don't know. The character is actually talking to the audience. The character, it should feel like they're talking to the audience. When I get to my signature story and my signature story, I'm talking about how I have an opportunity to make six figures by staying in this job, okay? And I said, I went home to my wife. I said, honey, I don't know what to do. What should I do? And my wife said, take the money, fool. Right? But I said, if you've been sitting beside my wife and me just a few moments later on our old beat up black leather sofa with the chocolate chip cookies baking in the background, you would have heard her say something that can absolutely change your life. And I know it because it changed mine. She said, craig, this is all you've ever wanted. Ever since we met, this is all you've ever talked about. I don't care how much they try to compensate you. Your dream is not for sale. Boom. Darren. The audience is hearing it the same way I heard it, Mark. The audience is hearing my wife tell them, your dream is not for sale. So, incidentally, when I get to that point in the story, whenever I'm in front of a live audience in person, I look for a person who looks like they've sold out. And I look them directly in the eyes and I say, your dream is not for sale. And try to connect with them like that. Okay? So that's the real secret of storytelling, is the character is actually, in a way, talking to the audience and they can hear it how you heard it. They can experience how you experienced it. And that's what it really means to put them inside of the story, and it puts them in that present moment. So that's the number one mistake I see by even pros, Darren, when it comes to storytelling.

And you made an adjustment, because what I love is you're a sponge, and you are learning as well, constantly. And then you pass on what you learn. I remember when that line evolved, because you used to say it, craig, your dream is not for sale. And then you realize just the principle you're talking about right now, that the audience hears it for you rather than for themselves. So you drop the Craig. Right?

That's it. That is it, man. You remember everything. You're awesome. Yeah. This is fun. Yeah. I had dropped that one word so that they wouldn't feel like I'm talking to Craig, but they feel like I'm talking to them or my wife is talking to them.

I'm responsible.

You know what, Craig? I'm gonna get another touchy area here because of the power of that story. It's so powerful. And we work with individuals, clients, who often say, well, I got nothing. You know, Craig Valentine, What a great story. Darren Lacroix. From chump to champions. Mark Brown, he was 18 years old. He had 40 bucks in his pocket. Now he's a world champion. And they look at the sensationalism of our stories, and they often think they haven't got good enough stories. And we've heard several speakers over the last 25 years. I've heard some of them telling Readers digest stories and Chicken Soup for the Soul. Matter of fact, two years ago, at nsa, last year, nsa, the big running joke for the whole convention was the starfish story, because everybody was telling the starfish story. And the admonition is, stop telling the star of your story. And you have so many clients who you've coached and trained. And the idea of using somebody else's good story and kind of tweaking it has been around for a long time. And you've been on the sour end of that as well, because your story is so powerful. What are your thoughts on really finding your story even though someone else's story is appealing to you?

A great speaker once said, your stories don't have to be sensational. They just have to be sincere. And that great speaker is Mark Brown. And I think what people think is that story has to start off being sensational. It doesn't. I told a story about my son and me watching the Olympics, and I can Make a point with that. Right. I tell a story about how I'm actually glad to be on Zoom Nowadays, because 11 years ago, when I was traveling so much, my daughter, Tori, she wrote me a note. And imagine if you received this. It says, dear Daddy, I miss you. You are the best daddy in my whole family. Up until I got that note, I thought I was the only daddy in the whole family. Hey, look, maybe I should stay off the road and make sure no more Daddy is. That's not a sensational story. It's a note that she wrote me. The thing my son said was not sensational. So they just have to be sincere. And I think that takes the pressure off of people. But, Mark, to go back to that moment, and you helped me with this. There was a gentleman in Europe who was using my youy Dream Is not for Sale story. My story, my signature story. All he did was change the name of my wife to his wife's name. And he was using. And he went out to Africa. Africa. And used it. And somebody told me. Then he went to. And I confronted him. So what I did was, and I'll just make this a long story short. I went into my shopping cart to see, did this guy purchase anything from me? And the answer was, he purchased everything from me. And he started using my story. And he built up a great big following using my story. And then the hardest thing was he gave the story somewhere else. It was either Australia or somewhere in Africa. And somebody recorded it.

Yep, I remember.

And they sent it to you, and you sent it to me, and I listened to it, and I was like, he's not even doing my story justice. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to listen to. So the answer is, you know, we got enough stories in ourself, in our own life and our own experience for you to go back and uncover and understand and use the words of Mark Brown. Understand, they don't have to be sensational. They just have to be sincere.

Well, man, I appreciate that, and they make a point. But thank you, because Darren and I have been teaching for a long time. We have stories. We have discussed different ways to find our own stories. Matter of fact, a few weeks ago, we interviewed on the podcast. We had Jeannie Robertson, and she is amazing. And that was, I think, episode maybe 46. Episode number 46 ought to be unforgettable. Year after year. And Jeanne taught a technique of finding story ideas. She finds 400 story ideas a year, every year. And 56 years she's been doing that, and she Reinforces the point you just made. All of us have so many stories available to us if we just know where to look. And the cool thing is, part one is finding the germ, the seed of the story, or using Craig Valentine's techniques. You got so many ideas you share with us today, how to really take those stories and make them come alive for the audience. And I just can't thank you enough for sharing some of these ideas with us. But I gotta go back one more time to 1999 with a story that you told about your life, story you no longer tell because you've been past it. But in the world championship, you told the story of this point in your life. You had to face yourself and to get to talk to yourself and to make some decisions. And you did an amazing thing. You said when the contest was over, you're in the airplane with a trophy, and someone said, say something. And you were speechless. You were the first person I ever met who ended a speech speechless. And I'm curious to know where the idea came from and what made you do it and do it so effectively as part of your bigger story.

Thank you. Well, the speech was called A key to Fulfillment. And the speech was about taking five minutes of silence to listen to where you want to go in life and do that every day. Now, in truth, I was taking way more than five minutes of silence in my life, But I knew that would be a hard sell to tell people. Meditate for 30 minutes in the morning and meditate. You know, it'd be a hard sell. So I was just. So it's about silence. And so I figured, what would be a good way to end this story? Well, how about silence? And so I said something to the effect of what you're going to hear now is something more important than anything I've ever. Anything that I've said so far, Something this and this and that. What you're gonna hear is the most important thing. And I just went silent. And then somebody in the audience yelled out, oh, yeah, silence.

They broke the silence, right?

And when I was finished, I felt like I had connected, and I felt like the audience had gotten that message. And I'll never forget at the end, when you're standing up on stage and people are coming up to meet you and to greet you, and my wife is handing out these homemade business cards. And this sounds almost like it's too good to be true, but there's a huge long line. And toward the very end of the line, there was a guy who was on at least One crutch elderly gentleman, and he just came up to me and he said, you just changed my life today. That's the only thing I remember, really, about being on stage afterwards, because that was the moment I realized that was the real trophy. That was the real trophy. That's why I got in this in the first place. When I was going through the world championship at the club level, the area level, the division level, the district level. Back then we had region levels. You had change of speech twice and had three speeches. All this and that, after every level I would win, people would come up to me afterwards and give me awards and rewards and congratulations and attaboys and this and that. But it never failed. There would always be somebody who came up to me afterwards and said, great job, man. You gonna win the next one? You gonna win the next one? And I would always say the same thing. Even back in 1999, I said, I don't know. I just want to touch lives. I just want to touch lives. But, Darren, Mark, the interesting thing is every time I reached out my hand to touch a life, somebody put a trophy in it. But here's the key. I never reached for the trophy. I always reached for the life. So when I'm working with people, I always ask them one question. What are you reaching for? Wow.

Bam. Story drop.

Oof.

Man, this is gold.

All right, Craig, here's a new one you tell. I was trying to come up with a term for this, but you tell nudge your neighbor stories. When you nudge your neighbor and say, you're gonna love this one because I've heard it before. But it's so good that I'm excited for the person next to me to hear you tell it, and I enjoy it again. And I also get to relive it through their reaction as well. And, dude, thank you so much for being the person you are, the dad you are, and the speaker you are and the mentor you are. You've been a brother to me, an inspirer, a teacher, and it's just been cool going through life with you. So thanks for giving back and being on our podcast, Unforgettable Presentations and Craig Valentine, if somebody wants to learn more from you or know about the new program you have coming up with Les Brown, how do they get in touch with you?

Well, I think the most important thing, I always ask speakers. And first of all, Darren, let me thank you because you had called me one day, I think, back in 2001, and then you sent me a book, and I was like, wow, this guy Is awesome. I didn't even ask for the book, but he sent it to me anyway, and I'm happy to have it. It was wonderful. And I love this whole journey with you, man. You're my brother. I love you, Mark, you know, we go way back. I know that you wanted those $5 sandals that I end up getting back in Miami, but love you, man. You and the fam. You taught me how to be a better father. I appreciate you.

Oh, appreciate it.

So, Darren, I think I might even have forgotten the question.

How do we get hold of you?

Oh, how do you get ahold of you? I'll tell you this. I always tell my audience, raise your hand if a year from now you'd like to be three times better than the speaker you are today. Their hands always go up. I say then, great. For absolutely free, for no fee, you can go to one of my websites, which is 52speakingtips.com. That's 5twospeakingtips.com, and every week for a year, you're gonna get an audio lesson from me. And by the end of that year, you will be at least three times better than the speaker you are today. So 52speakingtips.com, Darren, and I'll see them there.

All right, Mark Brown, what do we got for keepers? We got to recap the whole podcast again, so it's gonna be twice as long to.

I might need three deep breaths for this one. Okay. In your stories, take us through the pain, but take us through the payoff. Ask yourself, what is the point the story makes? And what is the story that'll go with that point? Whenever you're processing your stories in your head, learn this. Your market will create your message, but you're going to look for it. I love that. Don't get ready. Stay ready for anything in life. Don't get ready. Stay ready. Why you want to be repeated and retweeted? I love that Speakers. Be crystal clear on your message and come up with a foundational phrase. Why? The phrase determines what stays. And never stop asking questions. Goal here. The more time you spend on the story, the shorter that story should become. Okay, I like this one, too. If you're holding a grudge, that grudge is also holding you. Don't let a grudge hold you back from being the best you can be. Abc, Always be creating warning. Don't force your story to fit the wrong audience. Apply the bounds theory. One small change can refresh your story. It's like bounce and dryer sheets. Your story is for your audience, so let your story become their story. Two More Conflict is the hook of a story. Dialogue is the heart of a story and you can't react to narration. You can react to dialogue.

Darren Craig Valentine, thanks for being the incredible storyteller that gets us to nudge our neighbor and say, you're gonna love this. Today I move the chairs, tomorrow I move my audience. Craig Valentine thanks for what you do and how you do it and just for teaching us all you help presenters be unforgettable.

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