Ep. 61 Humor for the Un-Funny

Hey, sorry. No, that's perfect. That's perfect. You want me to lead perfect for this one. We both TALK OVER EACH other and again, it continues. You gotta laugh, Mark. You gotta laugh. Especially because both of us were born unfunny. Oh, my God, it's terrible.

I'm telling you, man, people said to me, you're funny as a. No, I'm funny looking. And you can't deny that. But listen, Darren, you know, in high school, my nickname was Sour Brown. There's nothing funny about a guy who's always sour. So trust me, I was not the funny guy growing up. Trust me.

Yeah. If you don't know my story, my story is. That is my story. I was not funny. My brother told me. Yeah, the only time I've ever made my brother laugh is when I told him I wanted to be a comedian. But I'm timing, timing. So, hey, we've interviewed some amazing people about humor. We've had some great guests. We encourage you to go check out those episodes. But we thought, hey, let's just sit down and talk a little bit about two guys who weren't funny that still use humor as part of what they do to hopefully inspire you. If you're listening to this and you're not funny in your own mind, or maybe you know somebody, maybe not you, but somebody else who isn't funny. This episode is for you. You.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? AHAs. Let's dive right in.

All right, Mark, this is our episode.

I'm laughing because as I'm thinking about this, you know, humor for the unfunny. I can remember 25 years ago when I was competing in the Toastmaster International Speech Contest and I was getting ready for the level five of six. Back then it was called the region. You know, all of Canada and northeast of the USA down to Maryland and Maritimes, this big old region. I'm going to compete in this contest for a chance to get to the big stage. And I write this speech and I'm at home and I'm practicing and I'm gonna do what. I'm gonna inspire the audience and my 11 year old daughter who's now 36. My Princess Andreen, she walks by and says, dad, you're not funny. Your speech has no humor. Dad, it's not funny. Now she's 11 years old, Darren, and my ego went. I'm like, what? That's how unfunny I was. I'm going to compete. I want to be in the world championship, and I am not funny. And I tell you what, man, if you think you're unfunny, this episode is for you. We're going to share some ideas. I'll tell the rest of that story later on how it worked out. But I'm going to tell you, man, if you think you're not funny, there was hope for me. There's hope for you too, right, Darren?

Just call Mark's daughter and my brother and there's some proof. But what's really cool is we've found a way to develop some humor. And so we just wanted to just have a conversation about a few of the secrets that we learned along the way. For those of you who wanna be unforgettable, you wanna add some humor, but really we wanna teach you how to uncover it. This came up because last week we have live coaching calls in Stagetime University. The third week of the month, we have the humor calls. So the humor buddies get together and we had so much fun last night, we laughed, Mark. We went for two hours and, and we did a few exercises. But we were preparing next week for the Humor Bootcamp. So it's our two day event. And as I went through those slides, it gave me this idea. And I want to share this because I think this is kind of where it came from. So we're talking about humor for the unfunny. So, Mark, as you know, I work for Bose Corporation. And when I was working for Bose Corporation, I worked with this guy named John Yates. And John was this guy, if you could picture the old crotchety Fisher from Jaws. What was his name?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Played by Robert Shaw. Played a play apart. Yeah, it'll come back to me. Yeah.

And that's what he looked like. And he was just this great guy with this great attitude. But I was working on writing the book Laugh and Get Rich. And I was starting to think about it. I realized, here's a guy. Now we were selling. We were selling the Bose wave radio. And here's a guy who worked half the hours that I did and he sold twice as much as everyone else in our department. So he works half as much, sells twice as much. And like, what is your secret. So I was just asking him this question, and he said to me something that was brilliant that ended up getting right in the book. He said, the days I don't make people laugh are the same days I don't sell much either. And that was a big aha. He wasn't trying to make the sale. He was trying to just connect with people. So don't, like, try to write jokes. Don't try too hard. Let the ideas come to you. Let friends and people who are funny give you ideas. But don't try too hard. My favorite quote, though, talking about the why that this matters. Ego is one of the reasons, because I want to get laughs. It feels good to get laughs. But I love this is Brilliant by Jeffrey Gittamer. He says, at the end of laughter is the height of listening. Ooh, I love that the end of.

Laughter is the height of listening. Cool. Wow.

If you made them laugh, they're leaning in. They want to hear your very next words. And that's when we slide in our message. Another brilliant humor quote right out of the humor boot camp. A mentor of mine, Rosemary Vary, said, a laugh is inversely proportional to the amount of words it takes to get there. A laugh is inversely proportional.

You told me several months ago that it was Jerry Seinfeld who invests a lot of time to cut out the number of words in his bits to make it more poignant, make it tight, right?

Yep. And we say that for stories, too. You know, the more you tell your story, the shorter it should get. Leave out those extra words. So for a comedian, if you have five minutes of time and you have, say, a thousand words, well, if you bring it down to 800 words, it's going to mean those eight punch lines are now closer together. So. And I love this. I heard this on a Westwood One interview decades ago by Bruce Springsteen. He said, our job is to shorten the distance between ourselves and the audience. And I just think if you want to be unforgettable, we need that closer connection. Humor is a way to do just that. One more. A jest often decides matters of importance more effectively and happily than serious. More effectively and happily than serious. A little bit of homework for the unfunny. One of my favorite things this will give you hope is go check out the documentary, rent it, find it on Netflix, wherever you can. But it's called Comedian is the name of it with Jerry Seinfeld. And you watch Jerry Seinfeld go back to the very beginning of his career. Let me rephrase that all of the sitcom Seinfeld was based on his material. Well, after Seinfeld ended the TV series, he went back into the comedy clubs and created all new material. So you watch Jerry Seinfeld Bomb. It's inspiring. So even though he's this funny guy, when you see him start with a little bit of material. And Mark, this is one of the things that I think is the big hope for unfunny people is the fact that if he struggles working on new material, why should I think it's gonna work? The first time, when I came from Stand up into Toastmasters and I heard people testing out a story, a funny story, they would try it, and then if it didn't work, they would throw it away. The difference between me from my comedy background is if there was one tiny little laugh where somebody right at the right time, right after the punchline would go, huh? I would be like, yes, that's it. I'm on it. Like, it means they laughed at the right point. Something worked. I just need to make it clearer. So I think one of the things is people give up too soon. And finally, last idea is, humor is in the mind of the beholder. Humor is in the mind of the beholder, the person who's listening to you. That's why if you deal with big corporations and the middle managers, well, they have a certain perspective on life. If you're talking to entrepreneurs, they have a certain perspective if you're talking to frontline people. So we need to know what's funny to them. That's the cool thing. That's one of the added advantages that you have as the unfunny, giving a speech over the average comedian, because the average comedian is playing to the people who are there in front of them from all walks of life, you have this commonality. So if I can help you do one thing and give you a little hope, you actually are way ahead of the game if you know what to do. Mark, your thoughts?

Couple things. First of all, Seinfeld Comedian is actually available on Netflix. I found that. And the second thing is you made a little point. I think you kind of went by a little too fast. And for those who are watching this, you can see it's called Comedian. It's on Netflix. Get it? You said you had a little reaction. We often think we're not funny unless we get the big laugh from the audience. And thanks to your help, I realize now that's a mistake in our thinking. You may think I'm being unfunny. I didn't get a ha ha ha ha belly laugh for eight seconds? No. A reaction, a response from the audience tells you you've made a connection and that's all you need for humor. Darren, you and I have been coaching people for years now who want to become great speakers and contagious winners. And they say, darren, Mark, I need to add humor. People aren't laughing enough. I did some research. You need to get a laugh. Every 1.25197086 minutes, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't be so formulaic. You want to give the audience an experience. If they chuckle, it means you got to them. If they laugh out loud, great. But your whole goal isn't just to get the laugh. It's to make the connection and leave a message. So within the context of a presentation, humor done well doesn't have to be upright, roaring eight seconds of laughter. It has just to be a response and a reaction that says, hey, that was humorous. I like that. I get that. I connect with you and I appreciate it. So please, please, please. You may think that not getting big laughs makes you unfunny. Not so. You simply want to connect and get a response from your audience.

It's a process. It's truly a process. And Mark, a lot of people who've. Let's just say they've never met us one on one, they've never listened to any program. They sit in our audience, we use our best material, we get the big laughs, we walk off stage and think we're funny.

That's true.

And it's not. They're like, oh, you're so funny. No, you're seeing me with a script that works, that I've tested, and now I know it works. So now I have confidence, which increases my own delivery, which is important. Your delivery's got to be there. So at the beginning, when I would test out the jokes, it would be like, does that work? My delivery is like. And then. And then if it did work. Oh, that did kind of have that. That landed somehow. So I think just knowing it's a process. We go through the process. When you see us on stage, just like a comedian at a comedy club, you're not seeing them testing new material. When you're at a comedy club and they're paying, they're working on their best stuff, and maybe they test a little bit right in between, but you don't know where it is.

And.

And if it doesn't work, they then go to something that's tried and true. Just like my buddy, my comedy mentor, Dave Fitzgerald, when he was gonna be on Caroline's Comedy Hour or on Evening at the Improv. Well, he would go all week to two or three comedy clubs in LA if he was in la, or in Boston, if he was in Boston. Testing those five minutes to tweak it to see if there's just. Well, maybe I need to raise my eyebrow right when I deliver that line or change my facial expression. So there's these little tweaks. So it's. It's like a laboratory. But we give up too soon for the unfunny. Realize that there's so much you can do. But don't give up too soon. Mark one of the early strategies that I highly recommend. Talk about the quote, Jim Rohn's quote. You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And I remember early on when I was just getting started, I had some friends that were really funny, and I started a public access TV show to get camera time because I wanted to be an actor. This was long before I wanted to be a speaker. But what I did was I brought the funny people with me. I produced it so they would show up and they have a producer now for this show. So I produced it. They were there, and we made funny skits. And it's like I just put them in front of the camera. But I was around it, I was listening, I was seeing what was funny. And one of the guys was just brilliant. He was a great editor. I realized a lot from editing that a lot of humor comes from editing in commercials. Not only that, it's the same when you and I do this. You had a great huge laugh that even shocked you in your world championship speech that you didn't even see coming. And you didn't even know what you were doing and why, ironically, why you were why they laughed. Why?

Not one word why. Yeah, I learned I was delivering a line about the Beauty and the Beast scene where the people attack the forest, attack the beast castle, to get rid of him and to kill him. I was questioning their motive with the word why. And in all my rehearsals, I had this poignant, reflective why. But in the delivery, and I didn't understand it then in the delivery, on the spur of the moment, I changed my inflection. I changed my. My expression, my face, and I kind of like, why? And the audience busted out laughing because my inflection was different. And you said, darren, sometimes just a raise of the eyebrow, just a change in your expression, just a shift in the way you say a word or a line changes the atmosphere, changes the mood. And in that particular case, it was like comic relief for a very tense situation. An angry mob is attacking somebody in his castle and he hadn't bothered anyone. Why are they doing this to him? It was like, why? And the reaction was totally unexpected. But here's the cool thing. If you keep track of how your audience responds to what you say, you will get an aha. Wait, that's funny. I didn't realize it. And I bring it back to when my daughter said, daddy, you aren't funny. And in my rehearsal I threw what I thought was a really stupid corny line into my rehearsal. And my 11 year old girl said, daddy, that's funny, you gotta use it. I'm like, sweetie, that's a really stupid line. Daddy, it's funny, you gotta use it. And against my better judgment, I put the line in my contest speech. I drove from New York to Maryland, I got on that stage, I gave the speech, I dropped the line and I got a 13 second laugh. If you under Toastmaster, a speech is seven and a half minutes long maximum. And to expend 13 seconds of your time on a laugh, one you don't budget for that is huge. All because I thought I was unfunny. I thought the line was corny. But in her wisdom, my 11 year old princess Andreen saw humor in it and said, use it. And it worked again. Two different times in the same contest cycle were the unexpected on my part turned out to be humorous. Why do I tell you that? Because the hope is this. You may think, darren, Mark, you don't understand. I am unfunny, okay? I can't make anybody laugh. You never know what may seem to you. Maybe just the one thing that makes somebody smile, makes them chuckle or makes them rip, roar and laugh out loud. Darren.

Yeah, So I think one of the principles, just to distill it from what we're saying here, is ask for help. You didn't ask her to give you that help, but she volunteered it anyway. But I think if we surround ourselves with funny people, if we ask our funny friends for help and insight, sometimes people want to help you, but they don't know what to do. You've got to give them some guidance. If you're a toastmaster, get around your funny toastmaster friends, not all of them, and just ask them if they would take a look at your speech and, you know, deliver it the way you deliver it. Now everybody's got their own delivery style and One person being funny one way isn't going to be the same way as another person being funny. I loved Robin Williams. I loved his antics on stage when he was just this playful kid. Billy Crystal never made me laugh with his standup. Okay, but that doesn't mean he's not funny. It means he's not funny to me. But in this movie, City Slickers, he killed me. It's a different modality. It's a different thing. So what I'm saying is Billy Crystal couldn't deliver Robin Williams material, and Robin Williams couldn't deliver Billy Crystal material. Or Steven Wright. Steven Wright was one of my other favorites from Boston. I just loved his deadpan humor. But Robin Williams couldn't do Steven Wright material, and Steven Wright couldn't do Robin Williams material the same way they do it because they have a different Persona on stage. So understand that. But the key principle is ask for help. After I won the world championship, I got invited to give the speech again in 2002 for NSA. And knowing this principle, I said, okay, it's good. How do I make it better? And I sent it to Tim Guard, one of our funny friends, because I wanted to get. I wanted to make it better. How do we make it better? How do we make it better? If you're unfunny, ask for help and continue the process. So we took a line where I said, die debt free, and we reinvented that same line. It was the same joke, but it was different words. It got not only laughter, but the laughter turns into applause, which is agreement, and it was a rewording of the same joke. So it may be your delivery, it may just be the wording, but ask for help. Mark got it unsolicited from his daughter, but solicit it. Ask for help. Run it by your funny friends. The cool thing is we're doing the same script or routine over and over again. So if you get it to work, you can use it for years to come. And that's one of the things I like, is that when I got the Judy Carter book early on, Stand Up Comedy, the book by Judy Carter, she shows you exercises that comedians go through. And it didn't even dawn on me that there's a process to follow. So when we created the humor bootcamp, we realized there's secrets and formulas. So that's what we teach. We do 17 laughter generating exercises. But the fact that there are formulas that even big comedians use, and I think, Mark, that's one of the things about surrounding yourself with funny people is there are patterns of speech and patterns that are out there that just work. So the more you're around them, you're going to get some of them through osmosis. So stop hanging around with your boring friends.

And Darren, you mentioned about Robin Williams and Steven Wright and Billy Crystal. We often talk about this one little factor as well. We quote our fellow world champion, Jack Elliot, who says, my words won't fit into your mouth. So even though you may think, well, I'm unfunny, but if I find funny friends, I can do what they do. You can learn from them. But you have to be your own individual self. You have to apply your own style. And you might be surprised when the true you comes out, how transformational it can be coming how you receive. Like I said in high school, I was not the funny guy. I was the serious guy who you would never expect Mark Brown to make you laugh. I began doing youth programs, and they thought you were so funny. But as Darren said, what the audience saw as funny was I had to work on it, I had to hone it, I had to twist it, I had to turn it, I had to tweak it. So you can be funnier. Even if you think you're unfunny, don't forget, you vary your verbal and your visual and you find your funny friends. Love the alliteration there, Darren.

Love it.

These are simple tools and techniques to bring out the funny inside you. What else works for you, Darren?

Well, I think the bigger principle for the unfunny to understand is where humor comes from. Now, there's comedy, which is meant for a comedy club. For us as presenters, we're assuming whether you're a presenter or pastor, it's different. Comedy cuts down, humor lifts up. So comedy cuts down, humor lifts up. Meaning in comedy, there's a victim in that world, that's okay, it's accepted. That's part of the charm of that world, if you can say charm. But in humor, it's lifting up. So here's the mine to start looking for. And again, as we started off the podcast, talking about the commonalities that your audience has, if they're entrepreneurs, if they're marketers, whatever their commonality is, humor is a release of tension. But we have to create the tension in order to relieve the tension. We got to create it in order to relieve it. So in my championship speech, when I was lying on the floor and all of a sudden, out of Nowhere, I said, Mr. Toastmaster, and I pointed to the toastmaster from lying down on the Floor. It got a huge laugh. Why? Because it wasn't expected. However, going deeper in the humor principle is that I created the tension by laying down and staying down, thanks to Mark's coaching and saying nothing and letting the tension build in my audience before I relieved it. If I got up sooner, it might have been a chuckle.

It might have.

It wouldn't have been a huge laugh. And it's just taking everything I've learned, plus Mark's coaching, putting it together and testing, testing, testing. It was again, the weird thing is, if you're at a Toastmaster club testing out material and there's 12 people there, a small chuckle is gonna be a big laugh in front of a bigger audience. And, Mark, you said something earlier. I know I put a little different label on it, but when you're connected, and I like to say, if you're super connected, when you're at one with the audience, you're going to come up and say things that you've never maybe said before and never in that way, because you're at one with the audience. You're just. You're feng shui ing together back and forth. So that's why one of the other principles from the comedy world is record yourself every time. Because that magical audience, that magical connection, you're gonna do or say something, it's gonna get a huge laugh.

Well, you.

You're gonna forget what you did and how you did it unless you go back and listen to the recording. So, please, for the unfunny, record yourself. Guess what? It will be painful to listen to some of them, and you'll also capture some gems that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Yeah, the key there, Darren, when you record yourself, you know, better yet, record yourself on video. And the key is to really watch, but not just to watch, but to watch with a critical eye geared towards learning something. We have so many clients who say, oh, I can't stand to watch myself. It's terrible, as you would say, Darren, looking at a pimple on their face. It's about what you deliver to the audience and how they respond. If you listen closely, the reaction will tell you something, but you have to watch it with a critical eye to learn from it, to grow from it and build from it. You'll be surprised how far funny you could be if you pay attention to all those kind of details.

So sit down and watch the recording with one or two of your funny friends and just say, how can we make this funnier? And think of it this way, too. How can we create more tension and then how can we relieve it? Mark? I think you know, Len Tran, last night he was doing a story, getting coached on it, and he wanted to make it funnier for a humorous speech contest. And he had this moment where he bought two cars for his wife. She wanted this sedan and he wanted a van. And so he ended up buying both. And he was gonna surprise her, but she comes home one night and she's upset and she's mad and then he hides under the bed. So he's hiding under the bed cause she's upset and he thinks it's cause she bought two cars. Anyway, that's not the case. And she's like leaning over him and leaning down. And so there's this tension filled moment. So I said, now this isn't necessarily the truth, but sometimes we gotta let go of the truth and use the emotional truth so it's not lying. But if she leans over him and looks down and he just says, oh, you're home. Okay, so just like that made you laugh, he was hiding, obviously. And so it creates the tension. We've got to create that tension. That was a way to possibly relieve it. And he didn't see that again. But that's why you almost need that outsider to help you see what you can't see yourself because you're too close. You're too close.

Yeah, I like my little quotations to make me remember. You want to create and relieve tension. So also a comedy, it kind of breaks down and humor lifts up. I wrote down comedy denigrates. Humor elevates, you know, and I want to go back to that real quickly. But the idea of creating and relieving the tension, that concept, Darren, I think is something that if we understand how that really works, it generates the kind of humor that we expect. I didn't realize that when I did my why 25 years ago, I actually had built that tension. Here's a angry mom. They cut down trees, they get clubs and knives and they have torches and they're going to march through the forest and they're going to attack the castle. Why? And all of a sudden the audience in that release of tension, that's where the laughter came. So if you have done, if you have recorded yourself at some point in time, go back over those recordings, you may be your most recent one, and look for two things. One, look for that spot, maybe you got that one laugh and see what created the laugh. And two, if you did not, with what we have told you today, what we're telling you today, go back and Say, ah, I could have done something there that might have release some tension or might have caused a chuckle already you're ahead of the game in revising what you currently have to make the unfunny more funny. When you understand how these principles can really help you. Right, Danny?

Yeah. And think about it this way too. Humor is in the mind of the beholder. Look for tension in order to relieve it. But what you're looking for for your audience is what's the common tension and frustration. So when I'm going to do so, I just did a customer service keynote for customer service, big convention conference, like a thousand people is virtual. But I want to go and ask and interview people who are in that world. When I'm in for Wells Fargo, the Treasury Department, I'm presenting to them. I want to talk to 10 people ahead of time, but I want to ask them. And here's some of my secret questions I asked them. You know, in your day to day business, what are some of your pet peeves and frustrations? So even though pet peeves and frustrations are the same, they actually jar different parts of the brain. So I'm trying to just like get in there and I say, look, if you think of something in the next couple days, call me back. I read their newsletters and I'm looking for what's top of mind that is frustrating. Okay, I did one for Berkshire Life Insurance and when I was researching them, the challenge was the parking lot because they were repaving it and so everyone had to park far away. And if that's a common frustration or tension, specifically with that group, now I'm only going to be able to use that bit of humor for that group, but it's about them. So it's even better. Even if it's not funny, it's about them. They love that. But if you talk to bankers all the time, well, what are their common frustrations? That humor you can use again and again and again. So what is their frustration? What are their pet peeves? So before people come to the humor bootcamp, we have them create a list. What are your own frustrations? Because you create better humor from that. And then what is your audience's pet peeves and frustrations? We're looking for that common and in the comedy world, call it fodder for potential punchlines. We find that subject, then sit down with one of your friends, one of your funny friends and say, okay, what can we come up with about this? Now remember, as a presenter, we're trying to make a point with this. But we just opened their brains. We created that connection because again, humor is in the mind of the beholder. So the trick happened in their mind. The tension was relieved in their mind. So we've got to think, what's top of mind? What's frustrating? How can I relieve it? What's frustrating? How can I relieve it?

Yeah. I have had several talks to school board associations and educators conferences. And to my benefit, education runs five generations deep in my family, so I can understand some of the frustrations. My son right now is director of staffing in the D.C. public schools, so he sends us WhatsApp articles every single day. What's happening in D.C. so when you can identify what that group is dealing with, you have room to be funny. If you're doing a family style program, parents, kids, marriage, you have information right there. And one of the funniest routines I ever saw. I shouldn't say routine. It was actually a presentation done by some guy named Darren Lacroix. Something, I think it was, for the American Payroll Association. And one of their things was the acronyms they use in their industry. Darren and I laughed so hard, I think I peed a little. Just briefly explain to us who may think ourselves unfunny, the power of understanding what that client was dealing with and how you applied it and the reaction you got from them.

Well, acronyms is a common thing in the corporate or association market. So it's almost like I ask about them and I look at, do they have a lot of them? And is it overwhelming if there's only a two or three? Like in Toastmasters, we have some acronyms, but we wouldn't say it's overwhelming because it's not a big part of our business or our association. Like, they're there, but it's not like, oh, I can't keep track. So the new person coming in might not understand it, but when you're in this situation, American Payroll association, they had so many, and for the new person, it's overwhelming. So I kind of use that as my setup. And I created this routine and it just kept coming and flowing and flowing.

It was funny.

Here's one of the keys. I had a comedy writer from Boston. I asked this woman, I hired her to sit down with me and go through these list of acronyms to help me uncover some of the best lines. So I asked for help. Nobody in that audience said, oh, I wonder if he wrote that one himself. They don't care.

That's right.

They just care that they're entertained. So Kevin Burke is a great coach that you could hire to help punch up your speech. I know Ford Sakes hired him to literally help punch up his. And the cool part is if he punches up your speech that you do over and over again, that those punch lines you can use again and again. And by the way, if you're. If you're liking this and you want some more humor, a few episodes to continue, consider I wrote them down. Jeannie Robertson, episode 46. Thank you. Episode 51. I can't even. Oh, is Butch, our friend and comedian Butch. That is one of the highest episodes that we have. So Butch, episode 51. He says everyone is funny. Tim Guard, episode 30, Kevin Burke, episode 28, and Jason Hewlett, episode nine. And while you're writing, hey, we just created this today, literally, if you're listening to this, you want to join us for any of our live workshops or virtual workshops. Write down pod 25 p o d25, which means you listen into this podcast, you can get 25% off of any of our events. Just go to stagetimeworkshops.com if you want to join us for the humor camp next week. Give us two days and we'll make you funnier for life. Use that discount code, Podpod25.

Mark, one more thought. If you think you're unfunny, if you understand your audience well and you can relate to the audience well, if you collaborate with somebody to help you, if you ask questions about your organization, it can really, really help you. I mean, Darren used to do a routine, I don't think you still do, about being a toast aholic, which was perfect for Toastmasters, because everything in that particular routine they could relate to. So if you think you're unfunny, if you can relate to the audience, you have in some way and have that connection, if you can share their understanding, share their frustrations, you can go from unfunny to hilariously funny, and they'll see you as a humorist. I remember the first time I got lifted Darren to do a program for a Girl Scout organization. And someone put my name on the program as Mark Brown, humorist. I just about panicked. I found out the day of they had me with these Girl Scout leaders as a funny guy. I had to go back to my experience of being a husband of a woman, being a father of a daughter, what my wife and her friends. I had to draw on every relationship I could think of, on what they go through, what women deal with. My sister was a Girl Guide in Jamaica back in the 1970s. I had to draw on all of that and to connect to these women and relate to these women. But the thing is, if you look at your life, if you examine your relationships, if you go to your family and then consult individuals who are funny, chances are you're not so much digging for humor, trying to add humor. The humor will kind of unfold itself if you're willing to look and to listen and to be aware. So I encourage you to know humor is everywhere. And one of the keys is you want to vary the verbal and the visual in how you say it, what you say. You want to find funny friends to collaborate with you. And remember, comedy denigrates, but humor elevates. And don't forget to make people laugh, create attention, relieve the tension. And these few tips have helped me tremendously in the last 25 years to be transformed from sour Brown to a guy who makes even Darren Lacroix laugh, too.

Amen. And one secret formula that comedians don't want you to know, but we teach people, have a whole exercise about this. But the rule of three. But the rule of three for laughter. So whenever you list something, as a presenter, you always want to list three, because three is the most succinct way to get your point across without belaboring the point. But what we teach and what I say, say to you is the first two. So when you list something, the first two are logical, the third one is exaggerated. That's where the humor comes in. That's where the change of direction happens. So it's a formula that anyone can use, and we teach you how to use it. But I'll give you an example. It's a joke I've been literally telling since that one, since way back away, 2001.

Anyway, 20 plus days, these videotape days.

And it was, I tell a story about going to my first Toastmasters Club. I said, I walked into the Toastmasters Club and I noticed something different from the comedy clubs right away. These people were warm, encouraging, and sober. And that always gets a laugh. Warm, true, encouraging, true, sober, change of direction. And so the rule of three is the first two are logical, the third one is exaggerated. Judy Carter would say, big, big, small, or small, small, big. For saying, for example, you know, I play if I was bragging, braggadocious. And I said, I played all the best convention centers in the world. I played LA Vegas and Pahrump.

Wherever that is.

So Pahrump is in the. In Nevada. But two things, number one, the third one is, if you know Pahrump, it's a tiny little Podunk town known for things that are unmentionable. Yeah, there's the sin city is outside of Pahrump. I mean, outside of Vegas. But anyway, so the first two are logical. Big. The third one is small. And Pahrump is also a funny word when you enunciate it properly, which also. So now you have a funny word combining with a change of direction. Bam. That's where the laughter explodes. Now, it may not always be a huge laugh, but it's a comedy formula. There are comedy formulas out there that you can use, and that was my biggest. Aha. So if it gives you hope at all for the unfunny, it's find the formulas, use them. And like in the humor bootcamp, we walk you through the trainings and the exercises. So you literally create, create humor right there. But what you're more importantly doing is training your brain to look for the patterns and the formulas that are out there in the world. But now you're applying your content to them. We just thought it'd be fun to have a conversation Mark and I have in that unfunny birth and youth growing up together and thought, hey, let's just have a conversation about what it's like and where you can get get started. If you want to be unforgettable, look, the more you work these, get them to work and then make them better. And then make them better. Great jokes aren't written, they're rewritten.

Yeah. It's a process. And we encourage you to take these ideas, to apply them, to use them. Because you know, eventually as you begin to rehearse, begin to practice, and begin to think differently, before long, you will add humor to your presentations that will make you ultimately unforgettable.

All right, if you want to look into any of our workshops again, Podpod25, we don't have any sponsors for this. We just want to let people know. Hey, if you want to learn more from us, here you go. So go to stagetimeworkshops.com use pod25 and you get 25% off of any our events. So, Mark Brown, take us home.

Hey, make him laugh. Make him smile. Turn the unfunny into the funny and be unforgettable.

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