Ep. 65 Live Coaching With Denise Marek, Worry-Management Expert

Hey there, Mark Brown. I'm super excited. This is one of those episodes where you coach someone. Someone who's already an established pro. Just to be clear, this is not someone who is a wannabe, an emerging speaker. Denise is the real thing. She's out there. She's an author. I don't know, like 82 books or something. I might be exaggerating a little. She's done sermons, she's done keynote, she gets well paid. She's got a big publishing deal. So, Mark Brown, how do you feel about doing another coaching episode?

I am thrilled out of my gourd. I know some of our listeners appreciate the live coaching and the tips, tools and techniques that we get to share live will help anyone become unforgettable.

All right.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches. Mark Brown. Mark Brown.

Your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, AHAs, let's dive right in.

All right, Mark. Denise Merrick. Oh my gosh. Thanks for joining us. A great friend, a fellow accredited speaker, and I was thrilled to introduce you to Mark. And I love Mark. Nothing more than somebody who's a pro who wants to get better.

I love that too. The truth is, somebody I know, some guy named Darren, something has always said, if you're not coachable, there is no cure. And what I admire is seasoned professionals who still say I could learn something new. I can try a new technique, I can apply a little nuance to make my presentation even better. And all of us, including Darren and me, like the opportunity to learn from somebody else, to learn to hear, to see what they see, to hear what they hear, and then go back and enhance our presentation. So, Darren, I. I am XI ted today to meet and work with Denise.

Hey, Denise, welcome. Hi.

So excited to be here. Looking forward to this. It's remarkable to get coached by world champions.

Yeah, Aaron, it's remarkable. Nevermind. I had the worst puns ever, Denise. And I've been good for the last four episodes. I've not dropped any bad puns. So I was due today.

Oh, boy. All right, so you're just gonna have to put up with him, Denise. He's got a lot of great attributes as well. But Denise, give us a little bit of your background before we. We wanna get to the coaching quickly. But who are you? What's your subject? Let's start there.

Well, I'm internationally known as the worry management expert. So for nearly two decades, I've been teaching individuals around the world how to stop worrying. And I do it through keynotes, I do it through the books that I write, I do it through online courses. But it's my main passion to really help people to connect with peace and get free from all of that stress and all of that worry and all of that anxiety.

And there's nothing like having a pillow behind you that has your message. You just see a pillow and it's.

Like.

Well, Denise, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having the courage to get coached live here. We're thrilled to have you and love helping people who are already out there doing it. But people have a message who it's going to be replicated many, many times. And I think one of the things that people don't. Pros don't get about being coached is the that when we make your story a little more engaging, even going from good to great to unforgettable to a little more unforgettable, that difference matters. It reaches deeper into someone individually in the audience that just carries your message on and makes it unforgettable. Mark?

Yeah, I agree. And that's why you and I, Darren, did a program for the National Speakers Association a year and a half ago on this very idea of helping you get your stories, your sentences, your images a little bit more clear, a little bit more insightful and really connect with the audience. And I can't wait to hear Denise's story and hopefully help her to find some little tweaks that'll make it even that much more unforgettable.

So Denise set us up. Where is this a story you do all the time? A section of your speech? Is it the middle, the beginning, the end? So set us up first with where is this section in your speech?

So my speeches are built around an acronym, calm, and it's C A L M C stands for challenge your assumptions. A is act to control the controllable. L is let go of the uncontrollable, and M is master your mind. So where I'm putting this story is in the A. Take action to control the things you can.

Gotcha. Perfect. And who is your typical audience?

It's so varied. I can be speaking one moment to real estate agents, another moment to CEOs of top corporations, first nations groups, you name it. I'm speaking all over the Board. And I think it's because worry is very universal. But for this particular story that we're talking about today, next week, I'm speaking to thousands of real estate agents across Canada. So it'd be great to get some tips on making this unforgettable.

Yeah, because worry is counterproductive, right?

Absolutely.

So what you're trying to do is get them to do something, get them to act. So mark your questions before we have her tell the story.

I am really eager to hear how she applies this to real estate agents because I don't speak to them a whole lot. But as you said, worry is a universal experience. And now with COVID 19 and the pandemic, people tend to worry some more. So I think it's very apropos and applicable and I'm eager to hear what she has to say so we can work with you on this.

And Denise, before you start, what is your outcome of this section? So number one, and by the way, if you're listening to this, get clear the questions we're asking, Denise, we want you to ask yourself. So in this section, what's the intention of this section?

The intention of this section is for people to take action to control the things they can and get over the fears that block them. Because it's really important that we create an action plan to again take action on the things that we can control. But so often worry stops us from following through on those actions.

Excellent. And if we had to say, what was your goal of the whole presentation? What's your premise of the keynote in its entirety? How would you answer that?

It's a four step process to transform worry into inner peace.

And there you go. Well, let's do it, my friend.

All right. So, Denise, so for everyone listening, you've already heard her opening, she's engaged you. You've already heard the C. We're on the A now. So, Denise, if you could transition maybe out of the C and into this section, that would be awesome. And just go, we're not going to stop you. We just are going to take notes as you go. So, Denise, action.

So the second step in the comm process is the A. And it stands for act to control the controllable. Because sometimes worry serves you. Not all worry is bad. Sometimes worry is serving you as a prompt to take action. Sometimes it's saying, hey, wake up. You need to pay attention. There are some things you can do to protect yourself. Your health, your wealth, your family, your business. The key is when you're worrying instead of sitting there brewing and stewing. Get up and start doing. Ask yourself, is this prompting me to take action and then act now? Sounds simple, right? The challenge is there are a lot of fears and worries that stop us from following through on our action plans. The fear of making mistakes, fear of looking foolish, fear of what other people think, fear of losing the sale, fear of rejection. When I was trying to find a publisher for my first book, I went through years and years of rejection, and it started with literary agents. I would submit my book proposal and get rejected, submit my proposal and get rejected. But that's okay with me because I actually love rejection. Said no one ever. Rejection is painful. And that's one of those uncontrollables that we deal with because we. We can't control other people. You can't force someone to want what it is that you're offering. And that's okay, because what you can control is your ability to keep moving forward. Act and move forward, act and move forward. So when you're feeling worried and stressed, stop and say, okay, is this prompting me to take action? And if it is, ask yourself these three questions. Ask yourself, what could I do? What could I read? And who could I ask? So what I could do and what I did do was decide to target the literary agent that I most wanted to represent me. And that was actually Dr. Phil's literary agency. And the reason I wanted them is because at that time, Dr. Phil's books were selling like hotcakes, and I wanted my books to sell like hotcakes. So I went to the bookstore and I took one of Dr. Phil's books off the shelf, and I opened it up to the acknowledgement section. And sure enough, in the acknowledgment section, he thanked his literary agency in Texas. And I thought, there it is. I have the agent's name now. What am I going to do to stand out? And you've likely asked yourself that in your own business as well. There are often times where you think, how am I going to be unique and stand out from all of the other agents in my community? So I was thinking about it, and I thought, I really need to do something different because I've already been rejected for years. Then I had an idea. I went home, and on my computer, I drafted a mock cover of my book. And then I printed it out and wrapped it around another book that I thought would probably be about the same size my book was going to be once I'd finished writing it. And then I took that book back to the bookstore and I put it On a shelf underneath a self help sign. And I took a panoramic picture of it. And then I had that picture developed, and I put it in a really nice frame and I wrapped it in Christmas paper because it was just before Christmas. And then I attached a handwritten note. And the note said, you probably won't recognize the title of the book in this picture. That's because it hasn't been published yet. But you don't want to be the agent kicking yourself not getting the commission when it's on the bestsellers list. And then I sent the framed picture and that note to the agency in Texas. And about a month later, I was actually on vacation in one of the happiest places in the world. I was in Disney World. And I had a call from one of the agents in the firm. I called him back and he said, who are you? What is this book about? And so we talked for about an hour, and he said he'd be willing to represent me. And then near the end of our call, just before we hung up, he said, by the way, I thought this was a Christmas present. And I said it was. Merry Christmas. Do you remember your first sale? I was so excited. I mean, I was doing the happy dance. I was happy dancing all over Disney World. And in fact, I continued to happy dance until a few months later when the agent sent me a handwritten note. And in the note, it said, hi, Denise. I've tried nine different publishers, and the proposal was rejected by all nine. Let me know what your next idea is. I thought, oh, man, come on, nine. Nine is really not enough rejections by which to measure success. Can you imagine if you'd have given up on your business after nine rejections? So I knew what I had to do. I had to fire Dr. Phil's literary agency. But I didn't held on. And I held on because it sounded so good when people would ask me how the book is coming along. And they asked a lot. And I also held on because I'd already told so many people that I had Dr. Phil's literary agent representing me, and I didn't want them to know that I failed. And so I held on even though he was no longer trying to find a publisher for the book. As entrepreneurs, oftentimes we're so worried about standing out from our competition. And oftentimes our biggest competition is not the person down the street. It's not the business, the organization down the street, it's the person staring back at you in the mirror. It's often our own self Doubt that holds us back and derails our success. We sometimes wonder, am I good enough? Am I smart enough? Am I worthy? Am I deserving? Don't let the thing that stops you be you. You are deserving. You are smart enough, you are good enough. You are worthy. Let go of the self doubt. And so I did eventually let go of Dr. Phil's Literary Agency. And I thought, you know what? I am going to cut out the middleman. Enough rejections from literary agents. I'm going after publishers on my own directly. And then after another year, just more rejections. So what do you do? Act and move forward. Act and move forward. And I thought, okay, what could I do? What could I read? Who could I ask? Remember, those are the three questions. What could I do? What could I read? Who could I ask? And I had a colleague, you might know him. His name is Nicholas Boothman. And the reason you might know him is he's a best selling author of several books. He is also a very tall, slender, distinguished British fellow. And I called him up and I said, listen, I am being rejected all over the place with this book proposal. Do you have any idea why? And we were sitting there and he said, I know what's wrong with your proposal. I asked him what it was and he said, it's a crap title. Those are his exact words. Pretty blunt, right? It's a crap title. It is that part of how to make people like you in 90 seconds or less. Listen, the thing about criticism is it's almost as much fun as root canal. But you don't have to take criticism from just anyone. When you put yourself out there in a big way. And when you're striving to achieve certain things, listen, there'll be no shortage of people who want to give you their two cents. So when this is happening, consider the source. Ask yourself, is this someone who loves me? Is this someone who wants the best for me? Does this person actually have any expertise in the area in which they're critiquing me? I decided to listen to Nick Boothman because as I said, he has a track record of success when it comes to publishing. And I asked him, why is it a crap title? And he said, no one can say was the truth. I had been presenting seminars on the same topic and same title that the book was called. Originally it was called From Warrior to Warrior. And I'm telling you, MCs and people who are introducing me had a heck of a time saying it. Sometimes they would say From Warrior to Warrior, which is the same thing. So you come and hear me speak or read my book and no change. Or worse still, they would get it backwards and they would say, from warrior to worrier. So you come in to hear me speak and you feel great, and then you leave feeling all worried and anxious. So I knew I had to change the title. And a month of more wrestling with this, and all of a sudden, I don't know why I hadn't seen it before. The entire book was based around the acronym calm. So I changed the title to calm. I fixed it on my book proposal, and then I decided to send it to one of the largest publishers of self help books in all of North America. Sent off that proposal, and four weeks later I get an email from Hay House. I'll tell you, I wasn't expecting too much because I'd already been rejected so much. And I open up the email and it was from the president of Hay House. And he said, hi, Denise, I'm interested in your book. My assistant will be in touch with you in the next couple of days to set up a time for us to talk. What the president of Hay House wanted to talk with me. And I remember the day of that call, I was so nervous. My heart was pounding. It really kind of felt like make or break time. So we're on this call. And he asked me similar questions that that original literary agent did. He asked me about who I was and more about the book. And at the end of the call, he said, we'd like to publish your book and offer you a $20,000 advance. What do you think I said to that? After years and years of rejection, I said, I need 38,000. He said, you need 38? Okay, I'll have to call you back. We hung up. I thought, what? Why did I do that? I don't know what's happening. And I didn't actually find out until around a year later. I was cleaning out a closet in my office and I came across this box. And the box was about the size of a shoebox. And inside the box I would toss in goals that I'd written on scrap pieces of paper. And so this year later, after I'd found this box, I opened it up and I was going through the scraps of paper and I found a check that I'd written to myself in the amount of $38,000 for the advance on Calm. So it's amazing when you know what you want. It can really help you in those moments of decision. So think about it. I changed the title and landed a substantial Book deal, in your own business, you could be one small adjustment from everything coming together. Act and move forward. Act and move forward. When you feel worry brewing, instead of sitting there stewing, get up and start doing. Ask yourself, what could I do? What could I read? Who could I ask? And then act and move forward.

All right, so, Denise, congratulations for the courage I have taken. Three small pages of notes. Mark, would you like to dive in first? Mr. Mark, the master coach.

Three small pages of notes.

Two and a half.

I don't have a page and a half. I have some high level thoughts I want to share. One of your greatest assets could be a little bit of a liability. That great asset is your beautiful smile, your radiance, and your positive attitude. And one of the things I've learned from a story that draws the audience in is an an ability for the speaker to get us to identify with their pain. And through all your rejections, through all your pain, you had this beautiful, radiant smile with a lovely, beautiful face and the blond hair perfectly in place. I wanted to feel some more of the pain in your reactions, in your being stunned to silence, not knowing what to say. So in a general sense, I want you to think about what one of our partners, Michael Haig, always says. Michael Haig is a Hollywood script consultant to the stars, and he has told us on numerous occasions the purpose of a story is to elicit emotion. I wanted to feel more of the rejection. There were nine or ten. I'm not sure how many you had, but each one should be that little stab to the heart. Oh, man, I really, I thought I was gonna get it, reject it. Oh, man, we want to feel that pain, but yet also feel the resolution. I'm not going to quit. You know, I have no way out. You know what? I'm going to do this myself. So feeling the emotion of the roller coaster, of the excitement and the rejection, the thrill, the disappointment, give us the emotional reaction so we can feel with you what you endured as part of the process. I want to feel what it was like, what when Dr. Phil's agent said, you know what? Can't do it. This is a bust. It's not going anywhere. So in a general sense, remember, a story has to have an emotional link to the audience where we not only sympathize with you, we want to empathize. And I simply define the two in this way. Sympathize, I feel for you. Empathize I feel with you. Is that helpful?

Yes. That's so good.

You know, you're so pleasant. You're so sweet. You're so beautiful to look at. But I want to feel. I want to see the angst. And there are times when you got that call from the A House president, oh, my gosh. I could see the reaction. I could feel that the more reactions that we can feel from you, the more we're going to feel with you. That's pretty high level. Within your presentation, you have some threads that run through. It's stewing, brewing, and doing. You mentioned what can I do? What can I read? Who can I ask? And you say act and move forward. Those are three refrains that come through your presentation. The power of the refrain is the fact that it can stand alone. So when you have a phrase like act and move forward, a pause before and a pause after lets that phrase stand out. Let us hear it, let us absorb it. Let us receive that you use stewing, brewing, and instead of doing twice, the beautiful rhyme, beautiful metaphor. I want to feel the stewing, I want to feel the brewing, and then I want to see the doing. But you do that so quickly, you don't let them stand alone and therefore become memorable in my mind. So much so when you said, what can? You said, what can I do? What can I, who can I ask? I was trying to write that down. And I wrote down, what can I do? Who can I ask? What was the second one again? But when you repeated it the second time, I wrote it down in the margin. So think of these as nuggets of wisdom for your audience to hear. And let these nuggets stand on their own sometimes repeat them for clarity. I wrote down, stop, pause. You're going too fast. I want to hear that one more time. You have these memorable foundational phrases that need to stand on their own. And there was one visual I was hoping to see. You told us about this mock book, that you created a picture of it in panorama and you sent it visually. Think of the impact of you showing that to your audience, what you actually did. Maybe just a photograph in a slide. And I created this. Boom. So now we see what the agent saw. We're now invested because we get to be in his shoes and see what you sent to him. That was the gift. That was smart. Wow. And give me an idea visually of something I can do creatively in my own business, to sell my own product or my own service. Is this helpful? A couple more thoughts very quickly because Darren's got a whole page full and this is just the way I think. You spend a lot of time. Sorry. You invest a lot of time sharing your message and you tell the story. And it's wonderful for your consideration. What if you asked us more questions? You talk about how we're disappointed, you talk about our fears. Do you recall the part where you mentioned all the fears that we have and being imposter syndrome? Do you recall that part of the speech?

Yes.

Can you say it again? Can you say it again real quick?

Oh, do you mean the part where sometimes what blocks us? There was two different kinds. The fear of making mistakes, fear of looking foolish, fear of rejection. Is it that one? Or was it the one where I said we have self doubt of not being good enough, not being worthy.

In both cases you're telling us what they are. But if you ask, what are you afraid of? Do you ever face a fear of rejection? Fear of not being worthy? So now you're asking us to look into our own hearts, you're telling us all of this. That's fine. But sometimes the ask is more powerful than the statement. At times the question. Because now I'm thinking, you know what? She's right. I have thought to myself, they'll never buy from me. I mean, I'm brand new at this. Make us feel, question us, challenge us. Do you ever feel that you're afraid you're gonna get rejected? I felt the same way. So now we have a relationship, you and I, you feel what I feel. So change the statement to a question and invite us in. You introduce us to this gentleman. His name was Nick, I believe.

Yes.

And you said you might know him. I might not. If you don't know Nick, I'll tell you. He's tall, about 6 foot 4, distinguished. He kind of reminds me of. Then give us a point of reference. Think of. And who could you think of who's tall, stately, with silver hair? Maybe a Hollywood actor. Think of Harrison Ford as he gets older. Or Clint Eastwood with gray hair. Give us a point of reference. So we can now visualize him that much more clearly. And he sounded like. And give us a stately, well known English voice. Not Michael Caine, who's a cockney. But think again. The more you can give us to compare with, the clearer the image becomes in our own mind. So when he speaks, we're picturing someone. If you said Sean Connery, I'm thinking vodka martini, shaken not stirred. Her name is Bod, right? Darren, stop. Okay. The point being, if you give us something. Thank you, Darren. If you give us something as a point of reference, it gives us a clearer picture in our minds of what he looks like what he sounds like. So you add that visual to a description you already give to us, makes us see that person that much more clearly. I'm gonna stop there.

No, no, I just wanna piggyback on that one. Quick thought. Patricia says something. Patricia Fripp. When she's coaching, she says something. It doesn't matter what they see, okay. It matters that they see something.

Right?

So they can. The image doesn't matter, even if it's not accurate. Denise. But if I have that image in my head, I'm gonna be with you in that story. I'm gonna be with you having coffee with Nick. You could even, you know, what was the coffee shop or what was one thing in the coffee shop. Just bring us. So, Mark, I didn't mean to cut you off. I just wanted to take you back. That's great.

You're right. It could have been Starbucks. It could have been, you know, the local. What's the name in Canada again? The coffee shop.

Oh, Tim Hortons.

Tim Hortons. Thank you. Yeah, local Tim Hortons. Whatever your audience can relate to, use a name that they can relate to so they can see themselves there. Continue. Darren, go ahead. I'm done right now. Go ahead.

Yeah. So as Mark is saying, too, the content is great. The content is solid. It's you, it's your experience, it's helpful. We're just trying to twist it just a little so they absorb more of it. And Mark, I don't think we've ever, ever in the history of coaching people had anyone smile to the coaching as much as Denise.

I'm loving it.

Yeah. So, Denise, look at me for a second.

I'm just writing notes, like so fast.

No, I want you to write notes, but for one second I just want you to look at me. You tell me what's wrong with this. So Nick said to me, you have a crap title. I do. Thank you. And obviously I'm exaggerating, but that's what you said. And that doesn't go emotionally with the reaction you're trying to get us to relate to. Okay. We love your smile, but your smile will mean more if you do it less often.

Wow. So good.

Yeah, it will mean more when you do it less often. So otherwise it's confusing the message. Does that make sense?

Oh, 100%.

And you also. And we're getting nitpicky and we're just going to go to random places. So you'll have to go through this again and look at your notes again. But again, it's really good. My biggest Picture for Denise and Mark. Tell me if you agree with this or if you want to back this up. But we need more moments. Moments where you had the thought. You told us. You thought things. You told us. You went to the bookstore. You told us. But I want to feel and hear your internal thoughts. That's what's going to connect us more like, no one can say it. So when he gives you the feedback, no one can say the title. And then you went on to say, yeah, he's right. I want to hear you absorb it. So he looked at me, said, denise, no one can say your title. Watch my face for a second. He was right. That's right. I've had introducers introduce me, and they stumble on it. That moment where he says it, and all of a sudden you get the revelation. Ah, he's right. Okay, then explain it. But you'll connect more if we have a few more of those magical moments when you had the aha. Guess what? We'll have the aha. But you kind of skip right over that important reaction shot. So think moments and reaction. Moments and reaction. And I would even look at your story, and it's really good if we can make it a little tighter. But ask yourself, what are the moments of transition? What are those moments of transformation? So even when you decided. I want to hear the moment that you decided, wait. Dr. Phil. He's selling millions of books. I want to sell millions of books. Let me figure out who his literary agent is. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I have one of his books here. Let me pull it over. There it is. Bam. I'm coming after you.

So I just got goosebumps on that one. That's good. That's golden. That's golden, Jerry.

Well, it's also dialogue. Yeah.

It's taking two different things that happen and, like, compressing time. So think of that compressing time when you had the thought and you looked up who that person was. Reality doesn't matter. Here's what Mark and I teach. The emotional truth of what happened. Okay? So those two moments are individual, but bring them together. Because the key is we, as your listeners, take away that moment rather than you being logical. Well, then this happened. And then this happened. And then this happened.

Mark, along those lines, the emotional truth and a moment. You had a powerful moment near the end, and you didn't realize it. Picture this. Why in the world did I say $38,000? It didn't make any sense to me. One afternoon, I was in my closet, and I found my old Dream drawer. All my dreams had been in that drawer for years. And it sat there, and in it, I found a check I'd written to myself for $38,000. Then it all made sense. Of course, that's why I said it. It had been in my dream drawer in my closet, but it had been a dream of mine all along. Do you feel that?

Yeah.

I use the word dream drawer. Just create a name for it. Because do you realize you can do that so well? Very early on in the speech, the story you gave, you personified worry. When worry spoke to us, you let an inanimate object talk to us. There. We could feel that if you created this dream drawer that sat there for so many months and you revealed to us in the back of your head, that $38,000 check had always been part of your dream. That's why you did it. And the dream drawer was a reminder. But now you're bringing us on this journey, and the aha for you becomes the aha for us. So now what's in our dream drawer that's been sitting there for several months that we need to pick up again and resurrect? See how that works. Just give some thought to that as well. Back to you, Darren. But anyway, please, any comment on that? What's your comment on that?

Wow, you guys are incredible.

Well, but it's your story. It's just our perspective of doing this forever. It's in you. And that's what. If you're listening to this podcast, we want you to know there's gold in you. We're just uncovering it. We just are minors. We do this all the time. It's Denise's story. We're just uncovering the goal. Couple more thoughts. I think you have a great opportunity and a great metaphor here, too, where, by the way, you could say that. Do that moment just like Mark did. Or we could even have you go. Let's hear your internal thoughts when you go into the dream draw. So he kind of. He brought it up, and it's. Either way, doesn't matter. These are options. But you could say, wait, and I went into my closet and I picked it up, and there it was.

Wow.

I wrote myself a check for $38,000. That was my dream. Wait. That rejection that. That agent that I thought was going to get me the dream, that was not a. That was not a disappointment. That was a catapult to this moment. So you could even remind, you know, we all need the reminder that seemingly negative moment was necessary part of your journey to you going back and finding that check that you wrote to yourself. Here's another one. Okay. You're doing a happy dance.

And it's not so happy in Disney.

No, no. In Disneyland.

Happy place.

And you don't give us any visual. Denise, you're in Disneyland.

I did a little dance.

No, no, no, no. But I want to paint the picture. You're right next to the Cinderella's castle.

Yeah.

You were, you know, walking down Main street, usa. You were next to, you know, there was Goofy, like, you have the most. The most.

You're in the happiest place on earth.

In the happiest place on earth.

Show us where the dreams that you dream come true. Ooh. Then it can link back to the dream box.

So here's my thought on this. So hold. Hold your thoughts for just a second.

Yes, yes.

So you give us an image where, by the way, where were you? Do you remember where you were in Disneyland when you did that happy dance?

I was standing out near Cinderella's castle, as a matter of fact.

Okay, so you're standing near Cinderella's castle. Remember, it doesn't have to be the literal truth. It could have been to the side of you.

I remember seeing it. I remember being right there thinking, this is like, so insane that this is happening.

Yeah. Don't share that part of the story. Don't share the magical part ironically. Okay, so here's one of the things. So you give us that moment. And again, not a lot of detail, just one thing. You could see the blue glow of Cinderella's castle. Just short, specific. Don't paint the whole thing. We'll paint the rest ourselves. But we need that one specific being in Disneyland is not clear enough for me, the listener in that moment. But you put me right in front of Cinderella's castle with da, da, da, da, da, with the smell, with the whatever. Give us one little thing with the children giggling in the background. Oh, come on. Like, this is Hollywood here. Okay, now, now, now you go back and there you are. You get the call or you remark, let me know where this might fit best. But then you get the gig. You get the call for the $38,000. The second the callback for the $38,000, then that Disneyland dance was not as wonderful as this moment. This was a happier dance. So that was the happy dance. This is the happier. So you could call back to that. And then you realize that that moment was critical to getting you to this moment. Or something like that. Mark your thoughts.

Your point's good, because it's A callback, but magnified. And the idea of the magnified callback brought to mind. I'm going to yank the wheel a second here. Brought to mind the power of the contrast between that happy moment and the deepest disappointment you've had. We heard you mention your disappointment of nine rejections. Right. Let us feel the depth of the disappointment so we can enjoy the elation of a success. The greater that contrast, the more powerful the contrast, the deeper the emotional link. Okay. We want to see that contrast. So I know you want to smile all the time, and you're a very cheerful person. Let us feel what it was like to get rejected because you told us it took a number of years from the first time you sent that out to somebody to getting that advanced check. I mean, that's a long time to have to wait. Some people quit after one year, after six months, but you still push through it. You acted and moved forward. Let us see the depth of disappointment so we can rejoice with you as the example of acting and moving forward. And you need to be very, very clear on what your refrain or your foundational phrases mean. When you said, what can I do? What can I read? Who can I ask? It wasn't clear to me what those three steps represented in your story. What can I read? I wasn't clear for me to go out and read something in particular. If you told I read how to Get a Book Published, I don't know what you read.

I did read that was that. I did read that.

Read what?

How to Write a Book Proposal and also the Writer's Guide to Literary Agents and Book Proposals.

Pick one.

Pick one.

We need a specific. You tell us to read, but you don't give us a specific of what you write.

What do we read? Pick one and give it to us. Right.

Okay.

That one represents several. That's fine. One of the books. So you don't mention the other one. It doesn't matter. It's not the literal. It's that you're doing what you're teaching.

Right.

And I don't buy it until you're more specific. When you're more specific, I'm more likely to take your advice because you took your own advice. Does that make sense?

Right. So when you said, who can I ask? That was Nick. Okay. And the thing is, you really want to magnify him as a guru. You said he's got several books published on the best seller list and he's distinguished. So we know who you asked. I didn't know what you read. Right. So you say, what can I do? Give me an answer. What can I read? Give me an answer. Who can I ask? Give me an answer. We may not all have access to Nick, but who can be our Nick? So he has to represent a concept. He was the successful writer who was published and on bestseller lists for real estate agents. Who would their Nick be? The million dollar sales agent who will give them a half an hour of their time. You want to send them to that, to their Nick. What should they read in their industry? Send them there. What can they do? What procedure, what course of action can everyone in that particular field take to get where they need to be? So you've got to make sure that what you teach is doable for them, where they are helpful.

Yes.

And each industry you go to, that's a place to customize. So ask the people in real estate who are hiring you. And I always get a list of like 10 names of people I can talk to, have some conversations. Chances are they already read the book. Well, maybe they need to read it again. But I love what Mark's saying. The last time you go over your three questions, answer what you did, each of those three and then ask us, what book do you need to read or read again? Who do you need to ask or ask again or something like that. I got another one too. Like I hang around with Mark and like I channel.

You're very kind, my friend.

Here's another thing that goes back to your down moments and let us ask you this as coaches. When you were getting all those rejections and you had your dream, I'm gonna have a proposal. Who did you tell that to? Like your best friends, your husband? Were there people in your life that you told that to? Or more importantly, were there things in your life that when you didn't get the book proposal, it was hurting you financially? Like, what were the things Denise worried about that we could relate to? Like, I got rejected one more time and I thought, but man, like, how are we going to pay the mortgage? Or how am I going to tell my mom? Think about it. You don't have to necessarily answer this, but you see what I'm saying is when they're getting rejected, they have their real estate dream and they're not getting any gigs. We need to relate that you. It was suffering someplace. It wasn't just a down moment. It was a specific down moment and a thought that you had. Because in your life this could happen. Or how am I going to pay for my kids tuition?

I noticed as you were talking my smile Started to disappear because you were actually connecting me to my past pain of the rejection so that I could feel it again, which I'm grateful for because I think when I was telling the story, I forgot what it felt like. And then you just reminded me. So that's why I was smiling, because it's like, yeah, that's gone. I'm already published and successful, so now I can keep smiling. But now you just reminded me of the pain of that. Because back then it was really a matter of if I didn't make it. I just felt like I was a failure. To me, my dream was to become a speaker and the next step was a published author. And I thought if I didn't make that, then I haven't made it. So it was really all about my self worth at that time.

Guess what?

That's what the real estate agents are thinking.

Yeah, take us there. Take us there. Don't just tell us about it, take us there. If we can go. If you can go back to that place in your mind and in your heart, the emotion becomes that much more genuine. And we feel, like I said, we don't just feel for you, we begin to feel with you. And we see ourselves reflected in your experience. That's the power of the story being real to all of us. We need to be able to see a little bit of us in you.

That's good. Wow. It's like a therapy session as well.

I do have one client who always brings her Kleenex whenever we get together. I won't go into any more details.

Another specific that we could relate to that you said you held on for. You said you held on. How do you remember what you said about that? Denise Publisher.

You held on even though he was no longer. I held on because I.

Your ego.

So I failed. Right. It was self worth and.

Okay, but here, here's. Here's what I want to know. How long, too long did you hold on?

I think probably almost a year.

Okay, so here, if there's a way.

Can I tell you what made me let go? This is a really interesting part that I didn't have time to tell in the story. And it's this. I was holding on and I went to see a movie. And in the middle of the movie, the main character said something to another character, had nothing to do with the movie. And he said, Call Mr. So and so and tell him his services are no longer required. And that was the name of my literary agent. And I turned to my husband and I said, did you hear that? And he said, yeah. I said, and then I fired the agent. I kept holding on. And then suddenly in the movie, they said a specific name. Tell him his services are no longer required. I'm like, who?

Don't bother sharing that amazing, magical moment.

I was just trying to make my story shorter.

Right. And that's a mistake a lot of people make is they cut out the wrong things. It's a moment. It's a transitional moment when you made a decision. Yes. Okay. And here's the other thing. When you said that you hung on for too long. Guess what? They're hanging on to bad things too long. They're hanging on to. Okay, so I want a specific length of time. It was 11 months and 13 days, whatever it is, because I'm going to remember 11 months and 13 days rather than too long. Yeah, you get it. It's more impactful. So figure out if you. To the best of your ability, but the specific thing is. And then you choose a specific number. Okay. If it was 11 months and 13 days, and it was actually 12 or 15, who cares? But the specific one we're gonna remember, and it was 11 months and 13 days that I just knew. And I went to a movie with my husband. And we're watching, and near the end of the movie, the lead actors or the character says, like, we don't need to know why you went to the movie. We want to hear the line. And then guess what, Denise? We want to see your non smiling reaction.

Reaction.

Your. Oh, my goodness. Because why? Because that got you to call.

You have an opportunity. Darren Lacroix in 2001, early in his speech, falls on his face. You've seen his speech, right?

Yep.

Falls on his face and he says, you think I stayed out too long? Yeah. Have you ever stayed down too long? Have you been holding on for too long? If you say 11 months and 13 days, I've been holding on for too long. Let me ask you this. What have you holding on to for too long? And let it sit for a second again. Suggestion. You ask the audience, what have you been holding onto for too long? Pause. Let them think about that. And then you move on. Because in the middle of that moment, again, it's an option for you. You are now asking us, you're now challenging us to look at our own lives. One is, is it the fear? What are we holding on to too long? What do we need to let go of so we can move forward? I do a whole piece on holding on to the past and doing a thing called your forgettery. To forget what's holding you back. That's my thing. But it's an option for you to ask the audience about their 11 months and 13 days. Is it time for them to let go? Just think about that and see where, if, and where it might fit. It's merely a suggestion for you. One more thing to consider, and then.

Two quick comments that I have. The biggest one is definitely moments. Just bring us to those moments where transformation happened. Mark said this earlier, but I want to remind you of this. We need to absorb what you're saying. So I'm not saying change your rate. I'm saying, stop. Let us catch up. Go at your rate. Let us catch up. And there was one question that was missing, that when we saw the initial version of this story, before you told it today, you had a beautiful question that I didn't hear today. You said, did you know that not all worry is bad?

Actually, she did say she said it early, but she kind of blew right past it. You said it one time. You didn't ask it. You said it. Not all worry is bad. Worry can make you do this. Yeah, but that's what that is, Denise, is a contrary thought, an idea that's not foremost in our minds. You need to give us time to hear it, to absorb it, and maybe to stew and brew on it for a second. Not all worry is bad. Yeah, I said it. Not all worry is bad. So worry will prompt you to. Then you drop wisdom on us and we go, oh, that's an early aha. Very early in the sector. It's an early aha. But you blow right by it. You don't give the time to absorb it and just say, you know what? I'd never thought of that before. What's the point you want to make about? Knock all warriors back. Give it to us again.

Oh, yes, I know what he says. Not all worry is bad. Sometimes worry serves you. Sometimes it's saying, hey, wake up. There's things you need to do to protect yourself or your health or your wealth or your.

Okay. Now if you switch it up. Did you know that not all worry is bad? Some worry is actually good for you. That's right. But now I'm thinking, what are you talking about? You want to get to your. You want to get to your point so quickly, you don't give me a chance to really absorb the weight of what you're telling me. Because when you think about it now, if you remove Denise's experience from that idea and the average person always knows how bad worry is, you just told me not all worry is bad. Wait a second. What are you talking about? Hang on. What? Give us time to absorb that before you unpack it, because, again, you're used to it. So there goes Denise.

Mark, we've done this at our live coaching. We've never done this in one of these before. So, Denise, we're going to do a little quick exercise with you. You're going to say your statement. But watch. Watch my video. And I'm going to hold these hands up until I. Until I bring them down. You can't say another word. Okay? Okay, so we're just going to do a couple sentences. It's going to feel weird and awkward. Okay? So you just give a line, and then I'm gonna put my hands up. Don't say a word. Don't say a word. Don't say a word. And then your next statement. And whenever I do this. Stop talking. So just for a second.

Indulge me.

Indulge me. That's too long of a word.

But anyway, I recommend you ask the question. Did you know that not all worry is bad? Start there. Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Did you know that not all worry is bad Sometimes?

All right, take two.

It's a bit of a delay. Okay.

Oh, okay. Take two.

Did you know that not all worry is bad? Some worry is actually good for you. It can help you to pay attention to what you need to fix in your family or your health. I'm sorry.

Okay, so I'm trying to work with the delay, but you got the point. And did that feel uncomfortably long?

It felt like a really long time. You're right. So it didn't sound long to you?

It was only seconds. It was only seconds. If we were in a live setting, I would have the audience give their opinion and go with you. So for everyone, we always. Or we usually speak longer and we don't take that time. And remember, the most important part of a presentation is the thought process in the listener's mind. Because here's Denise, here's how this would sound. Mark, work with me here. Okay, so, Mark, you know what I'm gonna do? So I go out for coffee with Mark, and I just haven't seen him in a while and. Hey, it's Mark Brown. Mark, how are you doing? Hey, it's good to see you. Like, I just saw this movie. It was so cool. I don't know if you've ever seen. It's called Heaven is Real. Have you seen that? Well, when I sat down and watched it. Do you get It, Denise, that's great.

That's what you're doing.

Yeah, that's what you're doing because you're not pausing to let us have those thoughts that are connecting us to what you're saying.

I get it. And I like to be a very good listener. So now I'll think of myself as a listener in my speaking engagements.

What happens to us as speakers? Is it all of us? We are so familiar with our material. We, we know it cold, left, right, up, down, backwards and forwards. It's easy to flow from our lips. But we have to bear in mind what is the audience seeing? What are they thinking? What are they feeling? Are we giving our audience time to process what we have to say? Especially if we have just dropped a brand new idea into their laps. Worry is good for you. Say what? Give them time to process that and then continue to, to inspire them with more information that they can absorb and then apply going forward. We hope that's helpful to you, Denise.

Mark. It is. And I know that when I present this, I'm going to be seeing your face. I'm going to say, did you know that not all worries bad. Yeah, I said it. Yeah, I said it.

And attitude suit, little head shake. And then one more little visual to go. Mark said earlier those important lines that we need to absorb. And he said, put a pause before it and a pause after it. What I Learned from David McElhaney, my other coach, is he said put it on the pause pedestal, thus taking the line and lifting it up to show its importance. And you do that by giving us a three heartbeat pause before it and a three heartbeat pause after it. And it will be like the U2 lyric scream without raising your voice. It will show. Look, this is something I need you to absorb, okay? And you and I need to know that as experts to allow them to have that time. So we know those things that are, bam, we're dropping wisdom. But if we don't stop, we're just going to run over it and they're going to miss it.

Your line you mentioned stewing, brewing and doing. What's the line about stewing, brewing and doing again?

I was a little insecure about that line, actually. I didn't know if it sounded a bit.

No, no. Let me hear it again, please.

I actually just came up with this after listening to you coach Michelle, I believe her name was. I said, when worry starts brewing instead of wait. When worry starts brewing, instead of sitting there stewing, get up and start doing.

Okay, now watch. When worry starts brewing, Instead of sitting there stewing, get up and start doing. Instead of stewing, get up and start doing. Now, the pacing is different. So when worry starts brewing, don't sit there stewing, get up and start doing. Just the pacing alone gives us a different feel for it because, you know, you're thinking, I'm going to go through the line. It's a powerful line done well in the right way and at the right time. It's also memorable when trouble is brewing, when worries brewing, don't sit there stewing, get up and start doing. So now what can I do? Right? What can I read? Who can I ask? You can link it there, but if it sits by itself, it becomes memorable.

Darren, by the way, here's a great opportunity to set that up with your mistakes and the things you were doing wrong. Denise, to bring that message to life by saying 11 months and 12 days into it, you were realizing that, you know, you were complaining. You give us a moment where you were brewing and stewing and not doing that way.

Yeah. You're saying your thing is to act and move forward. Right.

So we want a moment.

Oh, just worry.

Yeah. What were those internal thoughts that Denise had when she was. Oh, my gosh, you know, I really should stop telling people I got Dr. Phil's thing. But he's not doing anything. He's not agent. He's not doing anything. And he got rejected nine times and he said he's done with it. What a. Maybe I could get him to. How could I convince him to what could I. And the next day I went to the movie, or is that the movie? So we can feel you brewing and stewing and not doing. And then the character said the line you realized I'm not doing tomorrow I'm calling him. Okay, so we can emotionally relate to where you were at. Because guess what? That's where we're at right now, now. And you're trying to get us to act. Remember, it goes back to what's the whole point of this section? Because we never hear you. We hear the time that passes, but we don't hear any of your brewing and stewing and your internal worry or your internal, you know what? Maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm going to fail. Guess what? All those real estate agents are thinking the same thing. Guess what? Every other professional speaker right now is thinking the same thing. Guess what. Guess what. Guess what. Guess what.

There is such power in the internal dialogue that the words you say to yourself going through different situations, we call it the internal dialogue. There Is great power. When you break the fourth wall and we get to hear your thoughts, we get to hear your worries, we get to hear your epiphanies, we get to see these revelations. There's great power for everyone listening. There's great power in the internal dialogue because now we see your thought process and the flow and the sequence of what you went through to get where you want to be or get to where you have come. And that makes it more real for us because we've had similar thoughts. You just said, what are you worried about? What are you fearful of? Imposter syndrome? Can I do this? Are we going to fail? We're in the pandemic. We all go. We hear you worry, we hear you stew, and we hear your thought process. It becomes more real to us, and it. It becomes inspirational. And before you know it, you are a merchant of hope. Messenger of hope. Darren's line, right, Darren? Messenger of hope.

Yeah, exactly. And that. Yeah. So I really believe we need to hear you brew and stew and not do until the catalyst happens. And then after that, you go back. Who do you ask? Who do you read? What can you do? What can you read? Who do you ask? I read. This is what I did. This is what I read. This is who I asked.

Great.

There you go. Has this been helpful to you?

Helpful? Oh, my goodness. I wish I had done this years ago.

Happy to be of service.

Oh, thank you so much. I mean, the advice, there's really no words for it other than pure gold. And I feel very blessed by both of you, sharing your time and talent. I know all the listeners will get so much out of this.

We've got a question for you. Did anything in particular really stand out or stick out to you? Any. I mean, thankfully. Thank you for a very kind word. Did anything in particular really just kind of hit you and say, wow, I should do this more often?

Yes. I think what I'm really walking away with so many things. One is the pausing so people can absorb what I'm saying. And the other one is to move from being more dialogue focused to more story focused in terms of showing people what I was going through with my facial expressions as well.

Yeah. Because you know, what is what. Here's one technique we always teach people. If you. You have a video of you. You recorded a video telling us a story, you had that video available to you. Watch that video with the sound off and look at, you know what you're saying, look at your face, you know what you're saying, and ask yourself, are my facial Expressions congruent with the emotion I'm trying to depict in this particular part of my story. You are the best judge of that because you know where you are in the story and you'll say, you know what? I just failed nine times and I'm smiling gleefully. That doesn't fit right. And it's a simple technique, but if you watch it and see what your face says, you can also watch it play it again with the audio on. But just listen and ask yourself, is my inflection, my tone of voice, my pacing, Are they reflected correctly in what I'm saying? Do the words sound? Do the words I say and the way I say them, are they congruent? There's much to be learned by simply watching the video with the sound off or by simply listening to it without watching. It tells you what the audience is hearing. It shows you what the audience is seeing. And you'll see the incongruities and you'll see the consistencies. So you'll know where to improve, where to enhance, and what works perfectly well. Simple technique. Try that and see what happens.

I love it. I really understand what you're saying about sympathy and empathy and bringing them along the journey, and I want to take them on emotional journeys. So that's wonderful advice.

And what would you say to someone who's a highly paid professional like yourself, who maybe doesn't think they need coaching or don't want to take the time or effort? What would you tell them?

I think if you are at any level, you still need coaching. You're never at the top. You always can learn and grow. And the moment you stop growing is the moment you start going backwards. In order to keep growing, you need to be able to listen to coaches and take their advice. And I'm taking your advice. I have written pages and pages of notes. I'm going to listen to this podcast over and over again. Because of the coaching. It'll go out and change a ripple effect, go out and change a lot of other people's lives. They're going to start taking action and believing they can do it as a result of that emotional journey that now I'll be able to take them on as a result of the coaching. So I highly recommend it.

And by the way, if you're listening to this, we really want to let you know that this is what we love to do and we hope you've gotten value from this. If you have any interest in joining us, Mark and I have an event coming up called Get Coached to Speak. The beginning Very, very beginning of December. And if you're listening to this podcast, we appreciate it. Please tell other people too about this podcast and what it can help them with. But if you go to stagetimeworkshops.com we do all the events virtually at the time of this taping. So you can join us from anywhere in the world. You can get the recordings, you get the MP3s as well. But go to stagetimeworkshops.com and because you listen to this podcast, use the code PODPOD25POD25 and you can get 25% discount off. By the way, we have a coaching seat open a VIP coaching spot. So you can take advantage of that if you would like as well and join us for that event where we go not just for an hour like today, but we go deep, deep, deep. Two days, two full days. We love what we do and thrilled we can help people in the process and help people that others will be in front of. So, Denise, looking at your notes, what's a couple of your takeaways?

Oh, my gosh, slow down the nuggets. Show a picture of the book. That was a really great takeaway. To show the picture I do have. I actually did duplicates of that framed picture so I have that exact picture that I could send to them. It doesn't matter what they see. It matters. I forget what that is. My handwriting is atrocious right now. I was trying to take too many notes. So many. Who can your Nick be? We all need a Nick in our lives. Thank you so much.

Well, we know it's a fair amount of work, but what's cool about coaching is you already are telling this story and for the rest of your career, you work on it. It gets multiplied. All of your effort gets multiplied through every time you're on stage. And you might not be able to incorporate all of this by next week or by when you're giving the presentation. But if you can incorporate a few ideas and then go back and listen again and pick up a few more. But Denise, by the way, Denise, if somebody wants to reach out to you or hire you to help them become in all of this craziness, where would you send them?

My website, denisemerick.com.

Can you spell that for him?

Yes. D E N I S E M A R E K dot com.

Wow. Denise Merrick, thank you for having the courage to be coached on a podcast. We appreciate that. That's inspiring alone. And thanks for what you do because people need your message. Mark Brown, take us home, friends.

The idea of always trying to improve ourselves is a powerful idea. Find ways to learn more, to do more, to go from good to great to unforgettable. We'll see you next week and you'll see us either on stage, online Be unforgettable.

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