Ep. 67 Create Unforgettable Analogies With Pastor Josh Teis

How do you do that?

I don't know. I've been doing it for 20 years. People laugh for 20 years. They still laugh at that.

Those were old enough.

They still laugh at that.

So it's a gift. It's a gift.

Exactly what it is. Yeah.

Hey there, Mark. I'm gonna leave that on the recording, by the way. I'm gonna leave that on the recording. Rewind, take three. Darren messed up. All right, here we go. So, Mark, you know, one of the things we teach is the cherry tree effect, that we ask our audience before they sit down to create a presentation, ask themselves what do they want the audience to think differently when they're done? Yeah, that's like the starting point. It's that new perspective. And I sat down in a church, I heard this pastor, Pastor Josh Tice, and he gave this analogy about something I heard about many times, and it just made so much more sense. So for you listening, if you're a presenter and not a churchgoer, no worries. You're gonna get some great insights out of this. Because when we leave our audience with a free perspective about our subject, they think differently, which means we did our job.

Yeah, Darren, I got to see one of his videos. I tell you what, this is really exciting. I can't wait for us to meet Pastor Josh Tice.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Undisturbed Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix.

And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. AHAs. Let's dive right in.

Hey, Mark. When we leave our audience with a new perspective, and analogies are such a powerful tool to do that, like, that's what helps make it unforgettable. You never forget that time that your perspective shifted.

Yeah. And you know what? I just can't wait to sit down and talk with Pastor Justin, because I saw the video. Wow, this dude's got some good skills here. But since you got to meet him personally, I'll let you do the official introduction.

You know what? Before I bring him on, I gotta just set it up with the analogy. Cause I know as soon as we start talking to him, we're not gonna stop until we gotta end. So, Pastor Josh, forgive me, but I'm gonna start off just with the very beginning of One of the sermons that really made me go, wow, I get it now. I just did not understand. So check this out.

First Corinthians, chapter number 11 and 12 are like trying to understand a list of answers without having the questions. Let me explain what I mean. This is what happened. The Apostle Paul planted a church in Corinth and then left. And he began to start other churches around the Roman Empire. And the church was doing really well. A lot of people getting saved, baptized, and becoming disciples of Jesus. But they had a lot of culturally issued questions that the Apostle Paul needed to answer. So this is what they did. They sat down and they wrote him a letter of questions. And the Apostle Paul received those questions and decided to write a letter back answering those questions. We have the list of answers found in First Corinthians 11 and 12, but we don't have the list of questions, which means it's really difficult to understand culturally, a lot of the history and contextually, a lot of what the Apostle Paul was trying to tell the Corinthians, because we have the answers and not the questions. Plus, we have this problem. This took place 2000 years ago and 6000 miles away. So not only are we spanning 2000 years of history, we're spanning 6000 miles of culture. And so for us to understand these verses can be difficult without a lot of study of the history itself. And this is why chapters 11 and 12 have a lot of misinterpretation. I'll give you an example. Suppose the church in Las Vegas could write a letter to the Apostle Paul today. How cool would it be if Southern Hills could write the Apostle Paul and. And get a letter back from the grave? How many of you think that'd be kind of cool?

Right?

It's not possible. Relax.

All right.

But if it were possible, we asked him a bunch of culturally appropriate questions of the day. Maybe things about the Raiders stadium, maybe things about Las Vegas politics, maybe things about wearing masks to church. We would ask all sorts of questions, the Apostle Paul, and then he would write a letter back to us explaining his thoughts on these things. Now, imagine those questions were transported, or, excuse me, those answers from Paul were transported 2,000 years in the future. People would have really no context of what we were talking about unless they understood the history and the culture of today. For example, maybe this would be the answer to one of the Apostle Paul's questions. Let's go ahead and see the answer to one of the Apostle Paul's questions to the church in Las Vegas. He says, concerning the question you asked me about the Raiders on Sunday. Yes, it's absolutely appropriate to go to the Raiders on Sunday, have fun and scream and eat some dogs. But you'd better go to church first. Okay, so that's the answer to the culturally appropriate question that we asked the Apostle Paul. Now imagine that question gets picked up 2,000 years from now, or that answer without knowing the culture or what the question was. So now I'm a pastor 2,000 years from now, and I'm trying to explain this passage. Well, okay, I've studied the word raider and the word raider. The definition is one who attacks a home, a business, a territory with the intent to steal into plunder. Therefore, I believe that Paul was telling the church in Las Vegas it was appropriate to attack, steal and plunder on Sundays, but only after going to church. Also in that culture, it's okay to scream and eat dogs. Okay, so I'm not sure what that means. The misinterpretations would be vast because of the cultural distinction and changes. So as we study the next four weeks, keep this in mind because we have the answers without the questions. 6,000 miles away, 2,000 years of history. But Paul's first answer has to do with a great question.

All right, I'm going to stop there because I want to spend our time diving in. Pastor Josh, welcome. Pastor.

Hey man, I'm glad to be here. I'm sorry that you were introduced to such a difficult passage with the sermon that I gave. I mean, that is a difficult passage to understand for sure. And I have other simpler sermons that I preached, I'll tell you that.

Yeah, but that's why I love it. Because I think when people try, when the people watch it, when they're trying to be unforgettable, they're trying to get across abstract concepts that their audience might not have known about or understand. That's why we're put in that position. That's why we get paid the big bucks. Or for pastors. You're trying to help people who may not have that understanding. I just thought it was brilliant. In fact, my friend Mark Camp and Janet Camp, we talked about this sermon. Cause this is about the battle of the sexes and that's not even brought up yet. But it was brilliant. So, Pastor Josh, so just bring us back to the beginning. How did you end up being a pastor and delivering sermons?

Sure, yeah, absolutely. So I was raised in the church. My father is actually a pastor. My mother and father work in full time ministry, have since I was born. And so it was kind of my heritage from the very beginning. But just because I was raised in a pastor's home didn't mean I was necessarily a follower of Jesus Christ. We know this to be the case. If you've ever met somebody who grew up in a very religious home, like I did, a lot of times you might find that those people have actually run away from God or not really followed the faith unless something specifically happened in their life that truly brought a belief in God and a call to Jesus. That's what happened with me when I was young. I became very aware of my own personal foibles, problems, difficulties. The Bible calls it sin. And I personally did go through a few things that made it very aware in my life there is a God that God loves me. He died for my sins, was buried, rose from the grave. And so I personally put my faith in Jesus Christ. So when that happened, I. I went off to college and I began to study broadly a lot of different things. And my faith was challenged in a way like it had never been challenged. But in the end, it was strengthened. And as it was strengthened, I felt a very strong calling in my life to dedicate the rest of my life to public speaking. We call it preaching, public speaking, to explain the good news of Jesus Christ. And so that's what I've been doing ever since we came in 2004 to Las Vegas and started this church, Southern Hills Church, and have been here ever since.

And you've got this humor, this wit about you that just seems to be natural. And of course, for me personally, that's one of the things that draws me to listen to you. And I just love listening to you. And I know you get this a lot, but when I saw you that first time, I was like, oh, my gosh, it's Martin Short giving a sermon.

Well, I get either Martin Short or Gilbert Godfrey. I prefer the first.

Why don't you want to be Gilbert Godfrey? Wouldn't that work for you, Josh?

Oh, wait, I'm sorry.

That was bad.

I'm so ticked off that I'm multi.

So had you always. Because it's part of your delivery, and it seems to be a natural thing. Had you always loved humor. Have you been passionate about humor?

Oh, sure, yeah, absolutely. I was the class clown in the Family Cutup. Right. But when I discovered comedians as a teenager, I mean, to this day, I will sit there and my wife will wonder, why are you rewatching that episode of Comedians in Cars Getting coffee? And I love it because it's public speakers talking about how to deliver humorous things. Now, Just because my content is the good news of Jesus Christ and the gospel message of the Bible doesn't mean that I'm not my own person and personality. And my own person and personality loves humor. And I think it would be a shame to not allow that. That to shine through as I present the topic that God has given me to the world.

And we always ask people who are great presenters, because I think some newer presenters need to be reminded of. Do you ever bomb. Do you ever have a thing that just died? Because people need that hope and courage.

Well, Darren, one of the things that I love that you talk about is just the amount of time you need to spend speaking. Platform time. Platform time. Platform time. Is that. That's your statement, right?

Yes.

I'm in 100% agreement. I tell young pastors and young evangelists and young missionaries all the time, just get in the pulpit as much as you possibly can. And when you do, forget everything that you said and did and move on, because it's gonna be terrible. When we first started the church, so I preached many, many times prior to becoming a pastor. But I became a pastor at the age of 24. I don't know who would come to a church when the pastor is 24 years old, but nonetheless, people started showing up. Man, I got to tell you, there were times, Mark. There were times, Darren, where I was so embarrassed by the presentation, by the sermon that I had given, that I would walk off of the platform. I'd end in prayer, very solemnly, dear Father in heaven, O God of mighty creation. I would say, forgive our sins and heal our land. And then I would walk off of the platform. After I said amen very properly, I'd walk off the platform and go to the public restroom. We had private little individual restrooms. It was storefront church. And I would hide in the bathroom until everybody in the building left. And then my wife would know to come and knock on the door, all clear. They're all gone. They're all gone. And I would come out and she would give me a hug, and we'd go to lunch. Oh, my word, have I bombed. Many, many, many times. And as a preacher, when you bomb, you have pressure that God doesn't like you anymore. So it's really. It's really a lot of. It's really a lot of problems.

You know, Josh, as a. As a pastor, you have to do this week after week after week, get fresh material. And how do you come out of that feeling so low, knowing in six and a half days, I'm going to Be here again. What kept you going in those situations?

That's a great question, Mark. I think the answer is a positive outlook that says I get another shot at this. I get to go again. Like I. You know, like the comedian who stands up in the club and bombs. It's not about the last set. It's about the next set.

It's about the fact that I get.

To try this again, about the next opportunity. Plus, for me, when it comes to coming up with material, I have a whole book, you know, it's great. I don't have to be original. I've got this entire book that I can go through. And I gotta tell you, I've been doing this for, golly, 2004, so 15, 16 years, week after week, couple times a week, and I haven't taught through everything yet. I love. I'm telling you, I know a lot of people that listen to this are not necessarily believers, but even if you're not, pick up the Bible, even for its literary value, you're gonna find a lot of great content, a lot of powerful stories, and a lot of humor, to be honest. A lot of humor. So all my content comes from the book. And then trying to explain it and analogize it in a way people can understand, that's my passion.

And I always try to remind people. Yeah, Proverbs is actually the original quote book motivational quote.

I've not heard that. That's a great way to say it.

Thank you. Tack on Ecclesiastes, if you can even say that one, too, as sources of great quotations and wisdom.

Mark uses big words. I usually have to go look up during the podcast.

So.

Welcome to presenters on Zoom. Having coffee with Josh.

Well, I'm having something else, but I've got my sippy cup right here.

Amen. Give us a high level, like, what is your process for creating a sermon? So when we sat down with Vince, he told us that he creates these folders, and throughout the year, he just throws things in the folders. But for you, what's your process for having to do this? Because we as presenters are like, I've got, like, three keynotes, and I just do them over and over again. So eventually they get good. But you got to do this every week. What's your process?

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so the church that I serve at is very gracious. They allow me time to prepare, and I dedicate two or three days at a time to go away to a desert place, Literally. There's a desert resort in California called Ironwood Christian Camp. And I go out there for three days at a time, and I will then block off 10 hours a day during that time. And I'll block off so that I can begin to plan out all of what I'm going to do over the next three, six, or 12 months. That's what I'll do. And I'll spend that time saying, okay, there are 52 Sundays coming up, and I normally do this in October. I just came back a couple weeks ago. I'll sit down and say, there's 52 Sundays coming up in the next year. What are the obvious Sundays? Well, there's Easter and there's Christmas, and then there's our church anniversary service. There's Mother's Day. Got to talk about Moms. And then between those obvious Sundays, then I'll have blocks of Sundays, five weeks, six weeks, three weeks, whatever it might be. And then within those time periods, three weeks or five weeks or six weeks, then I'll say, okay, what is a big concept that needs to be discussed in our society? Either the audience being unbelievers who are interested in Christianity, or the concept being Christians who are in the midst of Christianity, but they need to understand this concept. And then I'll take a big block concept and I'll say, okay, let's see what the Bible says about this. Let's say, joy in the midst of sorrows, or what is the difference between a Christian and an unbeliever, whatever it might be, you know? And then I'll take that big concept and then I'll break it down in three or four or five smaller concepts, just like you would in any speech by giving three or four or five points. What I do is I take that one point and I make that one sermon. Then I take that next point, and I make that one sermon. I take the next point, make it one sermon. So the big concept we're in the midst of at Southern Hills Church right now is the concept of the afterlife. The Bible calls it the Resurrection. It's a doctrine or teaching called the Resurrection. The afterlife, that's a big concept. So I broke it down into four distant parts, and we're talking about the four different parts of what the afterlife will be like. Well, there's a lot of great content there. And this book is filled with all sorts of information on the afterlife. So this is how we don't run out of content.

And specifically, like that analogy that we showed at the beginning, you're really good at that, and you make it clear and concise. You don't drag it on. And that's one of the things that impressed me the most, especially how that one was so unforgettable to me because it helped me understand that, oh, he had the answers. We don't even know the questions. Well, duh, of course. And your Raiders analogy about interpreting the raiders and eating dogs, come on, that's not. You don't hear that every Sunday at your average traditional church. So how did that analogy come out? Or how do you look at. How do I get this point across? Because I think every presenter should have one or two really good analogies that help the audience understand their concept.

So the most difficult concepts to get across are not problematic. They're opportunities for you to be memorable. They're opportunities to make difference in somebody's life. Everybody is talking about the easy concepts. The reason they do is because they're easy to talk about. But if you can attack. I do this myself. I'll listen to lots of preaching, I'll read a lot of old commentaries. And what's amazing to me, Darren, is what people will often do is they'll come to a difficult concept or difficult passage in my case, and they'll skip right over it, you think? But I really already know about what came before and I already know what came after. I want to hear about this. And I've come to the realization that if you spend enough time really breaking down whatever the concept is, you're trying to get across. And for me, because I'm a believer in God, I spend time praying. I say, God, can you help me explain this to the people in a way that would be easy to understand? That time of prayer and meditation really does help me. And then the Lord will often, God will often give me a concept of a way in which I could explain that. First Corinthians 11 and 12, once I found out what was really going on in those two chapters, that the Apostle Paul really does care about this church. And they had all sorts of questions. And when I came to the realization that this letter was a back and forth conversation, well, I thought, man, how bad would that be to only have the emails to somebody? Without the emails from somebody, you would have to be filling in the blanks. And when I realized that's what was going on, we have the answers without the questions, I thought, well, my gosh, no wonder. And by the way, within Christian circles, you know this to be the case in First Corinthians. There's a lot of misinterpretation and we don't realize why there's a Lot of, I should say misinterpretation. Different Christian traditions interpret those things differently. Why? And the answer is we only have half the story. So going back and explaining, hey guys, we only have half the story. That's why it's so difficult to grasp some of these concepts. That puts the entire audience at ease to say, okay, got it. Now what do we pull out of this? What can we pull out of this? Knowing we only have limited information. Wow.

I'm curious, do you do this process of God? Show me a really powerful way to make this real, people. Is that every week or do you have certain go to techniques that help you to really connect with the people who hear your messages either live or by video?

Sure, yeah, I do, every week, Mark, thank you for asking. But I also don't want to make this sound so supernatural that somebody say I could never tap into that kind of thing because, you know, God doesn't talk to me every day. Well, look, here's, here's the reality. It's a lot of just time meditation and contemplation on the subject matter and asking, okay, how would I explain this to somebody who is new to this concept? There's a funny scene in the show the Office. You remember the show the Office?

I do. I saw the whole series. My kids made me watch it.

There's a great scene where Oscar the accountant is trying to explain to Michael the manager why they have an overage in funds. And he explains it three times. The first time he says, tell me what I need to know. And he explains it, he says, tell me that again is if I'm in fifth grade. And he explains it to him as he's in fifth grade. And he says, okay, okay, try to explain it again as if I was four years old, right? So I try to do that. When it comes to the concepts, if it's a difficult concept, the question is, can it be broken down to essential elements to where the five year old in my congregation literally can understand what I'm doing without necessarily disenfranchising the 30 year old Bible student. And I gotta tell you, the people that are the masters at this are Pixar, man. Pixar is equally entertaining to Darren, to Mark, to Josh, as well as every seven year old. I think we can do that in our public speaking.

Wow, it's funny you say that. My wife and my adult children roll their eyes at me because one of my mantras is talk to me like I'm five years old, I want to be clear. And they literally roll their Eyes. And for you to say that kind of tickles me because you touched very, very important. Your thinking is, how can I get a 5 year old to understand this without Darren disenfranchising the 30 year old who is also in the room at the same time? And that is not enormously easy. So how does one find the common ground between the adult and the 5 year old? Is there a technique for that?

That's a great question. How do you find the common ground? Boy, I don't know. I mean, gotta be honest, I don't have necessarily a session written on that. I do keep them in mind as I'm speaking. I will literally have a five year old in the second row looking up at me and at the same time a woman who has studied the word of God for 40 years of her life sitting two rows back. For me, I think, and I think this can transpose to every type of public speaker. For me, I genuinely care about the audience and if I'm genuinely caring about the audience, I really do want that five year old. They're not going to understand everything that I say. But will they walk away with something that can help them as a five year old and can I get something across to the 60 year old that will genuinely help them? For me, I think it comes back to, and I know this is a little bit touchy feely, but I do think the speaker that cares about the audience will analyze and adjust to every person they're speaking to. And I think that that comes from a sense of care.

A speaker who cares will analyze and adjust to every audience member. I think Darren was trying to figure out what disenfranchising means. So I'll let him speak next.

Oh, you're killing me, Mark. You're killing me. I have to see him next Sunday. Come on. I want to go back to that Raiders analogy. So you come up, you realize, okay, here's the challenge that we need to let people know that, hey, we only have the answers, we don't have the questions. Okay? So you get that across, but then you give us an example to solidify the analogy. How did you come up with the Raiders and the hot dogs? What was your process going through that?

Yeah. So for that process I thought to myself, okay, if we could. It's all questions in the contemplation process. Okay. The Corinthian church was a lot like the Las Vegan Church. Corinthians were a lot like Las Vegas. Okay, so if the apostle Paul was traveling today and he was my pal and I Was able to write him a letter. Hey, Paul, bro, I got to tell you, these people are crazy, and this city is insane, and I don't know what to do next. Can you write them a letter? He would probably want to know what issues we were struggling with. And I would say, well, people are upset about politics right now, and people are really upset about this virus right now. And people really have a lot of questions about sports right now. And, oh, the Raiders stadium. And I began to think, okay, what are the pegs on which people can rest their mind easily? What are the thoughts that people are thinking about right now? And, you know, I was preaching that sermon literally during the raiders game. The stadium had just opened, and politics was in the high, high end of people's minds, the virus and everything else. And I thought, okay, we would ask questions about these things. Okay, so then I wonder what his answers would be. Well, he would be true to what he says to all the different churches, what he said to Colossians, what he said to the Galatians, and what he said to the Romans. He would say the same thing. So how would he. I could figure out what he would say to us because he said the same type of things to different cultures. So what would he say about the Raiders on Sunday? Well, he would say, have a great go. There's nothing wrong with going to a sports game, but just don't put it above God. Go to church first and then go. And I thought, oh, that's hilarious, him addressing the Raiders. But again, my big perspective is how pastors will often analyze the text and pull things out that are not there by. By dramatically looking at a word rather than looking at the context historically. And what pastors will often do is they'll look at a word and they'll be like, that word raiders. Raiders means. Well, maybe the word raider doesn't mean that in that city and in that context. So that's where I found a lot of the humor. And I thought, oh, gosh, this is classic church. This is classic pastor. And we've got to make sure that that doesn't happen so we can explain it away. And I was really trying to set up Darren, for all of the frustration people have with chapters 11 and 12 as it relates to the battle of the sexes and other things. The reason why we misinterpret so much of that is because we don't understand the culture of the time, the day of the time, the place over there, and the original questions that were asked.

All right, the hot dogs. Come on. How'd you come up with the hot dogs?

Yeah, hot dogs. I don't know, man. That just came to me. That's the part of being a demented dog. Yeah. Eating dogs. That's the part of being demented that's really problematic.

Problematic or a gift. You choose. How you look at it. That's from watching the Jerry Seinfeld show or from studying comedians too much. It's that little Weisenheimer voice in the back of your head.

Yes. It's there, isn't it? It is, it is.

That's why I have to apologize. Sometimes I'm like, I'm sorry. That was the comedian talking. Because I spent so much time in comedy clubs, it just comes out on occasion. And one other question that I have for you is I think when presenters or pastors are unforgettable, there's just a presence to them that helps create that connection. And you forgive me, you are just delightful. And it seems that you just are having fun. You're like, I'm gonna have fun. You can come with me or not. But do you have this mindset when you go up, hey, let's come on down, let's have some fun, as they say in the improv show. Do you work on that? Does it just happen naturally? Do you give yourself a little pregame warm up exercise to get you in that space, but you just, you have fun up there.

Yeah, no, I figured long time ago if, if this is what I was going to do with my life, I better enjoy what I'm doing and I'm going to have a good time, even if nobody else is going to have a good time. I mean, for me, the content that I'm studying, it's not only eternal and beautiful and poetic and applicable, it's fun. Like, it's amazing to know that God wrote us a letter. We call it the Bible. And I have an opportunity of being surrounded by a bunch of people that I don't know and a lot of people that I do know and be able to talk about a passionate subject that I'm passionate about. Look, look, if you, if you, if you spend enough time to develop a presentation and a speech, you know that you care about that topic. Otherwise, why in the world did you write that speech in the first place? You're having a chance to sit down and talk with 50 people, 100 people, a thousand people, 2500 people about a subject that's passionate to you have fun with it. So, yes, fun is an essential element. And I think confidence, confidence, not projecting confidence for the sake of pretending to be secure but genuinely saying, I know my subject matter, I know my analogies, I know that these people like me and those who don't like me love to watch because they hate me. And I'm just going to go up there and have a great time. I think you said it right. It's the word fun. It sums it all up.

You've mentioned, and I think I'm hearing this idea of it's helpful to study comedians and to include humor in your presentation. Some may think, well, he's a pastor, he's preaching the word, he's got to.

Be haram, harrum, harump, serious, because God said in his word.

But you're saying, hey, have fun. And two, study comedians and humorists. Are there those who think that's inappropriate in your line of work? And what is your position on the power of humor in a presentation as a technique?

Sure. Yeah. Well, I would say the scripture is filled with humor, number one. I mean, there are just some very, very funny things that take place. But I'll tell you, even the Apostle Paul quotes comedians in his own writings. In fact, First Corinthians, chapter 15, he says, Evil company corrupts your good lifestyle. That's actually a quote from a comedian of the day named me Nander Meanander was a satirist. And he actually quotes this comedian to grab ahold of the attention of the Corinthians, who would have known more about Menander than they would have known about the Apostle Peter. And so he quotes a common comedian of the day in order to connect with the audience. So I think that that's unfortunate that people would think that way. Now, I will say this. I heard a pastor say this years ago, and I agree with him. He said, if, if you are naturally filled with humor, if you're a naturally humorous person, then use humor liberally. If you are not, then don't try to be funny all the time unless you know a joke is going to work. And so what I have found is there are great speakers, there are, you know, well known, even television speakers who you can notice they're not the best with humor. I'm talking about even pastors and preachers. They're not the best with humor, but they have studied a specific joke and they know the specific timing of that joke and they'll say it in the perfect cadence as they've practiced it and it'll be funny. Now, they don't try to be humorous throughout because that's not their natural giftedness, but what they do Attempt to do is still use humor, but they have to practice it more. It's not going to be this natural off the cuff thing. And I think pastors and presenters ought do just that. If you don't have it, naturally you practice it and only attempt to be the humorous area in the humorous area where you know that you can accomplish it. Otherwise, stick to what you're good at.

So back then in his day, was there a two wineskin minimum? Oh, man. Peace out.

That's good. I'll give you that one, Darren.

As soon as you set me up, I was. My comedy brain in the back goes. All right.

Two wineskin minimum. That's good. You know, I real quickly gotta ask one question because your methodology seems so structured. Pastor Josh, I gotta ask you, to what degree do you rely on or allow yourself to be spontaneous in your sermons?

That's a great question. When I speak to audiences where the vast majority are unfamiliar to me, I'm less spontaneous. So I would do a lot of public speaking out. I just came back from Indiana and I spoke to a large church there and I'll go to different places. I love to do that. I'm less spontaneous and that's where I would find the presentations. As you've spoken of, I've got four or five presentations that if it's a new place, I probably go to one of those four. And those are going to be relatively structured in our audience in our local church. These are my family now. Even though it's a large family and there's many, many, many, many people that come now, I still consider them my family. They're my friends. So I'm very much more comfortable there. So I have it written out. But when it comes to spontaneity, there are going to be times where I just speak off the cuff and I feel like God wants me to say this or I'm just going to tell this joke when I know the people, I feel much more comfortable doing that.

I wouldn't say as a rule, but you'd recommend spontaneity is helpful. When you're in your own house, you're not gonna take a risk.

That's a great way to say it out there. Absolutely.

Or I would think if you feel a connection, because sometimes we can be in front of a group of strangers, but you just know and feel you're with them, that there's that connection. And my final question. Cause I know you got a meeting that you need to go to. Your wife, does she give you feedback on sermons? Does she roll her eyes. Does she like, correct? No, that's not funny.

Only after she knocks on the door in the bathroom.

Wow, that question is so intuitive. And I've never been asked that guy. I'm telling you. Yes. So before I was ever a pastor, I was a Sunday school teacher at another church, and I would just do lessons, and there would be about 30 or 40 people that would show up. And every single Sunday after church, we would drive away. She would break down everything that I said, and I got to tell you, honestly, it's extremely uncomfortable. But the best thing that ever happened to me. The best thing that ever happened to me, I tell young preachers all the time that are getting started out. Get with your wife and let her be honest with you and don't be so sensitive. Let her tell you the goods and the bads. Let her praise you and let her rip you apart. Because what's going to happen is over the next couple years, more platform time, Platform time, platform time. By having them go back and listen or having them speak it. And then the other thing that's helped me is if you record yourself and then watch yourself, I still, to this day, almost every single week, will watch my sermon from the previous Sunday and I'll say, oh, see, I messed that up again. Oh. I said, hey, how many of you? Rather than you. So I will go back and watch and I'll pick up on problems that I've had. Always room for improvement, as Darren always says.

Did you know I was in the audience when you caught yourself?

I don't remember. I still have been catching myself. I don't remember. I may have caught myself several times that week because I've been really working on it, actually.

And, Mark, if you could put together the keepers. So, Josh, last question is, Mark kind of gives us the keepers for this episode. What advice would you give to a presenter or a pastor who really strives or wishes to be unforgettable?

What would you tell them over coffee to be memorable? Yeah. I would give the one number one piece of advice. Be yourself and don't try to pretend to be somebody else. I know within the preacher world, we have that problem. I think in the comedian world, we have that problem. I think in the presenter world, I don't think that it's a problem like a young child looks up to his father might walk a little bit like dad and talk a little bit like dad, but eventually the child needs to become his own man. And the same thing is true with the presenter, the preacher, the comedian, the speaker. If you get to know yourself and are comfortable with who you are and comfortable in your own skin. People like you and those who don't like you, it's okay, they'll find another speaker to listen to, but just be you. And I would say it this way, because I'm a believer. God created you. He likes you. He loves you. He made you exactly who you need to be to accomplish exactly what he's called you to accomplish. Stop trying to be somebody else and just own and who you are.

Excellent. Thank you very much. Mark Brown, what do we got for keepers this episode?

Before I do that, I want to ask real quick, you said own who you are, did you find yourself very quickly, Josh, starting out admiring any particular preacher or pastor who you said man, he or he's so good. I want to be like him. Did you find. When you're starting out, did you find yourself thinking that way by any pastor or preacher?

Oh, oh, yes. Oh, yes. And not just starting out. 20 years in, I still watch other preachers and admire and I learn from and I grow. I love. I mean, I mean, the reality is there are oftentimes I'll listen to another preacher and I think, man, I wish he was here on Sunday to tell that, you know, I want him to be there. But then I realized if God wanted that person in that pulpit, he would have done that. If God wanted that person to give that presentation, he could have easily made that work out. Instead, he put me in this situation. So therefore he wants me. Which means this is crazy to think. Which means if God puts you in that situation, you are the perfect person for the moment. And that gives me a confidence to be able to say, yeah, I guess, I guess I am the. Out of all 7 billion people in the world, I'm the one person that God wants to do this right now. And that is like, wow, okay, I can do this. I can do this. And that's helped me tremendously. Okay.

With that thought in mind, then I'm going to give my keepers. And that one is so in my mind, I'll say that one first. Remember, you are the perfect person for the moment. Keepers allow your personality to come through in your presentation. Love that. When you fall or fail, tell yourself I get another shot at this. Difficult concepts are opportunities to be memorable and make a difference. Ooh, that's a good one. Reach the five year old without Darren disenfranchising the 60 year old. And one of my favorite keepers, the speaker who cares about their audience, will analyze and adjust to their audience. Have fun have confidence, be authentic, be yourself. Own who you are, admire and learn from others, but be yourself. And most important for me, listen to your wife's honest feedback and let her rip you apart. Darren, over to you.

All right, you missed one. And by the way, Pastor Josh, Mark is a wordsmith like that. He is the alliteration king. He just. Anyway, we always have to daren it down so I can understand it. But Mark, you missed one time meditation and contemplation. Oops, wrong. One time meditation and contemplation. And that's truly what we all need to do to truly connect with our audience. If you're interested in hearing that whole sermon from Pastor Josh, you can just go on YouTube and type in messy church week one. Pastor Josh and it's a Messy Church was the series and that one was on Battle of the Sexes. So, Pastor Josh, Southern Hills Church in Las Vegas. Thanks for joining us. And I hope somebody who just meets Gilbert Gottfried says you remind me of a pastor in Las Vegas.

Hey Don, I want to ask if anybody wants to find out more about Pastor Josh. What's the best way to do that?

Pastor Josh yeah, feel free to follow me on Twitter, on Facebook and Instagram. I'm always oshtice and I'd love to connect with you. Or you can go to our YouTube channel. Just search Josh Tice preaching and you'll find lots of my sermons up there. More than you'll want, trust me.

And that's J o s h T e I s J o S h T e I S Josh Tice. Darren, take it away.

All right. Thanks for being with us this week. Join us next week. Pastor Josh, thanks for your time and your brilliance. Really appreciate it. Thanks for being on coffee with pastors and presenters on Zoom. We'll see you all next week.

Thank you.

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