Ep. 85 Unforgettable Body Language with Blanca Cobb

Hey there, Mark Brown. This is a different episode. We've never really done this before. And if you're a follower of us, you're a ToastMaster. You're in NSA. You've probably heard all of the legends that we've brought in. You have not heard this amazing woman, Mark Brown. Are you pumped?

I am flat excited and a little bit scared because she can see me and she can see everything I do. She'll read my face, she'll read my body, and I want to make sure I make the right impression on this amazing guest. Darren.

Yeah, if you don't know me very well, you know I'm energetic, I'm animated a little. In fact, if you haven't had seen Mark Brown's impression of me, it's pretty hysterical. But we're sitting down with a body language expert, which is like one of my favorite things. I used to love this TV show called Lie to Me, and it was just awesome. He just would see all the little quirks and know when people are lying. But Blanca has been on The Today Show, NBC, Dr. Oz, CNN, and she's Good Morning America. Dr. Drew Fox. Go check out her website, blancacob.com the credits. Mark, you and I have a few credits. A little bit of street cred, but hers just go on and on and on. But anyway, you don't want to hear me brag. We want to get the brilliance of Blanca.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation, Ahas? Let's dive right in.

All right. Blanca Cobb, thank you for joining us. We are thrilled. And then, Mark, I've never been a little self conscious because she's. I'm like, no, she's reading me. Oh, man. Anyway, Blanca, we're thrilled to have you here. Thanks for joining us.

It is my honor to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Cool. I was kind of kidding when I said, you know, I'm a little bit nervous because we get a body language expert to watch what we do, but I'm really, really curious because I know that Blanca has some wisdom for those of us who get a little nervous on stage. How do we look? And now we're in the virtual Mode. Everyone can see us in a small window. And little nuances of our behavior as presenters can really have an impact on the people who we serve. And I can't wait to hear what you call the brilliance of Blanca.

So, Blanca, first of all, where did you learn the. This body language expertise? Where did it come from?

That's a bit of a story. So I have to take you back to my childhood. When I was a little girl, I was abused, and I spent a lot of my childhood scared. And I didn't know who I could trust. But one way to protect myself, I learned, was to watch people's behaviors, watch their movements, and they unwillingly reveal who they are and what their intentions are. And I had no idea that surviving that childhood trauma would lead into a successful career as an Internet nationally recognized body language expert.

Wow. Wow.

That's how you turn something tragic into triumph. I mean, that just touches me. The idea that you could, as a child go through this, but find a way to literally flip it around. And now you're serving people all over the world. That's truly remarkable. I really admire that. Veronica.

Thank you. And as I got older, I pursued a master's in psychology, and I did formal training with well respected body language experts and detecting the deception experts, and I've combined the two together.

I'll get to the question. I can't resist this. You probably get so many requests to look at presidential debates, press conferences, interviews of famous people. I'm sure you get requests like, oh, yes, I see. You must have seen the Oprah with bacon and the prince who was lying and who was. You must get so many of those coming your way. Do you do it for fun or all just for work?

I do it for both. I find a lot of enjoyment. And it keeps me sharp. Right. It keeps my behavioral skills very sharp when I'm continuing to look. But there's also messages when people don't realize they're sending messages. Even if you're sitting down across from Oprah and she's asking the question, but you're just intently listening. Your body is sending signals that you don't even realize yet. That's super fascinating. And part of communication is body language. You cannot have a conversation or interaction without body language. It's impossible.

Wow. And Mark, if you haven't seen the clip of her in the Today show when Al Roker is there and you talk about 50 Shades of Awkward, I just lost it. I was like, that's funny. And that's my dating life from years ago. So Blanca, obviously When people get on stage, because our market and the people listening are presenters, what would you suggest? Because they're telling stories, but they also have to show confidence. And I can't even imagine what you see when you see presenters. Let's maybe start with mistakes that you see presenters make. That is unintended, let's say communication.

It starts in lack of preparation. When a presenter isn't prepared and doesn't know their material inside and out. Those nervous behaviors come across as soon as they walk on stage. Or if you're on zoom, as soon as the camera is on and you start speaking because you're nervous, you're anxious. It's just like if you can remember being in school and the more confident you were and the more you studied and prepared for a test, guess what? You were feeling pretty good. But think about the kids or even yourself who are like, oh, my gosh, I think I failed this test. They're so nervous because they're unprepared. It's no different. Even if you're an adult and you're presenting, the more prepared you are, the more confident you're going to be. It's just a natural byproduct.

Yeah. So it's authentic communication. So if you're nervous and you try to, quote, unquote, put on the mask and pretend you're confident, we can see it or you can see it. Well, the audience has that sixth sense. I see. But what we love about.

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

What we love about you, Blanca, is you can help us by pointing it out. So what are some of the tells, if you will, vagus term?

Yeah. What happens is when people are nervous, a lot of times their breathing changes from the diaphragm, from their belly, and it moves up into their chest and it's a little hollow and shallow and they can start breathing faster and you can actually hear that difference. And depending on how close you are to somebody, you can actually see their chest moving up and down more at a much quicker pace. So that is a very big tale. Tell people that you have to take a calm, deep breath to regain your composure in order to move on.

Ah. So that actually informs me because I saw a speaker one time on the stage. I could hear the. As they were were speaking now, they were rather heavyset and I thought maybe their weight was the issue, but it could really have been their nerves at the time because the shallow breathing and. Wow. So now I know if I find.

Myself, it could be a combination mark.

It could be both. Yeah. It could be Both. So if I. If I find myself breathing in that way, my body's actually telling me something. So our body has tells for the audience, and our body has tells for us as well. And no doubt many of us try to mask our nervousness. What is somebody think? What does somebody think you see people doing in their attempts to mask nerves that just fail? Doesn't work. You can tell they're nervous. Besides the breathing, smiling people will smile.

But it turns out to be an insincere smile, a fake smile, a polite smile, not a real genuine smile. And this is how you can tell the difference. When you are truly smiling a genuine smile, you're going to smile. And normally the top teeth are going to show, and these cheek muscles move up. And when they move up, you're going to get the natural crinkling at the corners, the outside corners of your eyes. That's how you can tell. And the eyes get a little smaller because you're smiling. Now, the problem with that is because a lot of people like to slow down the aging process. Some might choose to get Botox. And if they were to get Botox on the outside of their eyes, that muscle becomes paralyzed, and then it really looks awkward, even though they're giving you a genuine smile because they can't move their eyes. So it looks like this awkward, and it produces that result. What you two are doing is laughing.

I'm gonna bow down to. She's got me beat. No one's ever had me beat before in facial expressions. You win. You win. We're not worthy. No. This is beautiful. Keep going. Sorry.

Before I forget, before I forget, Darren. Darren did a program we did together. Darren showed a photograph. Actually, he showed two photographs of a visit he had to India outside Mother Teresa's home. And he had those photographs up, and he had one was a zoom in, and one was more of a long shot. And he asked our attendees for a program. Which photograph is more expressive? And you can see, when he came in closer, could see his eyes. He had a second photograph where he was hiding behind a mask. And he asked us to identify which was when was he really genuinely smiling. And he made us look at this thing. And he showed us the crow's feet, the wrinkles by the side of the eyes, and the way his eyes got smaller. We could see his eyes were almost dancing. And without realizing it, he was reinforcing to me and everybody else, the power of the body language just in the eyes. That became more real to me, particularly during the inauguration of our president, when we see People with masks on trying to speak. I've seen ministers on their platforms trying to speak. I've seen other presenters behind the mask and it's that much more difficult to really interpret what they mean when the mask is on. Are the eyes the only clue during a pandemic, when someone is wearing a mask, that they're being genuine and authentic? With us, is there something else we can look for?

There's a lot you can look for. Even though you might have a mask on that covers your nose to your chin, you can still see the top bridge of the nose, which is important, so remind me to come back to that. You can see the eyes, the eyebrows and the forehead. Depending how people are moving their face, that upper part of their face can reveal a lot. For example, if someone is surprised, what happens? The eyebrows, they come up and they arch. You can see more white of the eye. And then depending on what type of mask they're wearing, their jaw falls open. And what happens? It's like an accordion with the mask, how it pulls out. So that is a signal of surprise that you can pay attention to. So it's really important. And then going back to the crinkling of the nose, even though you might have a mask on, when people make a look of disgust, what happens? It's almost like if you're smelling something really, really bad or rotten, your nose just crinkles, right? So even if you have a mask on, you can see just a little bit of the crinkling right near the corners of the inside of the eyes. That's another hint of what someone is feeling. So even though you're reading the facial expressions, you can still look at the body and see what their body is saying, because there has to be a congruency in what they're showing in their facial expression as well as what they're showing throughout the rest of their body. Because if there isn't a congruency, then that leaves the. Leave someone going, wait a second, what just happened? Are they really feeling scared? Are they really feeling nervous? Are they really happening? Because as Darren said earlier, everybody has this sixth sense, you know, something is off, even if you might not be able to pinpoint it at the moment.

Oh, as far as the audience is concerned, it's. They almost wonder about your credibility because something's not right, even though they might not be able to pinpoint it. Now, you can probably pinpoint it, but they can't. But it takes away from our credibility. By the way, Mark, I feel. I feel like I'm going to be the closed caption guy, as she talks and brings out her brilliance. I'm up here, like, doing the expression she's talking about, forgive me, I can't help myself. I just love this stuff.

Well, you know, it's truly fascinating because I have one of my mantras. As Coaches Blanco, we try to instruct our students to become better presenters, not just with their words, but their whole. And one of my mantras is authenticity plus vulnerability equals credibility. And I encourage our clients. When you deliver a message, a story has an emotional piece to it. We say, watch yourself on video, but don't play the audio. Watch yourself and see if you know your speech. See if your body language and your expressions are congruent with the words you're going to say. And very often we find presenters, in their zeal to get the message across, they end up reporting but not reliving the experience. And they can come across as incongruent and also disingenuous. So what is your advice to presenters who are so caught up in the words that they're not showing the similar expression to match it? How would you advise them to make sure there is congruence in their presentation?

First, they have to slow down. A lot of times they get on remote talking and they really have to slow down to feel it. There's power in words, as we know. But when you slow down and there are certain parts of your story that you will naturally slow down because it's more impactful to you. If you experience something and then sometimes you want to say a message or share a story and let the audience marinate with it, let them enjoy whatever it is you're sharing for a few minutes, that's impact. It's not only talking, it's feeling. So you have to feel that emotion and you want your audience to feel that emotion. And one way of doing it is slowing down. And if I can go back a second to what we were talking about earlier, we were talking about ways that people show their nervousness. People will start to walk on a stage and there's a difference. When you're walking with intention and you're walking because of nervousness, and the way you can tell is when people are walking faster and they just walk, there's. It makes me wonder, like, why are you walking? You're making me dizzy in the audience. But when you're walking with intention and you're making a point and you're walking towards one person that you're seeing in the audience and you're conveying an emotion, a sentiment, A thought to them, that's power, that's impactful. And people don't realize it as presenters.

So you wonder why they wonder around.

Yes.

I'm sorry. My first bad one.

You wonder why they wonder why they wander.

But the key is walk with intention. Darren has a phrase you say move with purpose. And I didn't realize that wandering was really a sign of nervousness. I thought it was maybe a lack of confidence or it could be just, you know, they don't know where to anchor themselves on the stage. But the fact that wandering around could be an indication of nervousness, it's good to know that. I'm hoping those who are listening to us, you know, we will all examine ourselves, check ourselves. We encourage people to record themselves on video. If we watch our own videos, we can learn so much about ourselves based on what you're telling us right now. This is all quite fascinating and so intriguing. Another question regarding what we can do as presenters or mistakes that we make so our faces can tell, can give, can be tells, or movement can be tells. And we talked briefly about the incongruence of our words and what our face.

Shows, how our body language, it's not just the face, it's all body language.

So when you say, oh, yeah, we think of our expressions, and we, you know, it's a joke. We smile. I was sad. My face fell. I was angry. I scowled. But you're telling us it's more than that. There's full body. Body. And we think of body as, okay, I move left or I move right or an anchor. But what else do we need to know about how our bodies speak to our audiences?

Blanca, your body can betray your nervousness. So a lot of times, speakers don't know what to do with their hands. And with their hands by their side, they can be playing with their cuticle. They can be twirling their fingers together. Sometimes they might even tap their leg. No, I always talk about hands being like an emotional highlighter of what you're talking about. You have to move your hands with precision, with intent, with purpose, because that's impactful. Even in my role, we even have what's called anchoring. So if you're telling a story and you talking about all positive things, and let's say you're using your right hand when you're talking about positive, and then when you talk about something negative, you use your left hand. So what you're doing is you're priming people's brains to pay attention to that. And when you move your right Hand. Again, subliminally they're like, oh, right, that's positive. They may not realize it, but that's what's happening. And it really helps people remember. And so you're helping people who are different have different modes of learning. So it's not just all the auditory learners, but it's also the visual learners. And when you use more than one mode of learning, then people are going to. It's going to help people remember more of what you're saying. It's a longer impact.

Hands are emotional highlighters. That's a keeper right there.

I refer to it as anchoring, too. So, Blanco, we're glad to have you here. That's my right hand. If you're listening to the podcast and forgive Mark for the horrible puns. That's my left hand, Mark. Not with a guest. Come on.

I apologize. I did forewarn her before we began to record, so she knew it was coming. I have one and I think I've used up my entire store of bad jokes for the day. Now, you mentioned earlier, Blanca, just now about hands and positive and negative and how our hands are emotional highlighters. We have found many presenters use either an overabundance of gestures and I call it histrionics, or some are like, you know, hands are beside their sides the whole time. If I'm doing a 35 minute presentation and I hardly use my hands, am I in effect sending a signal to my audience?

Yes, absolutely. People tend to trust people more when they have their hands out and up, palms facing up. The problem is, and you already talked about this, Marc, you cannot stay in this position with your palms up the whole 35 minutes of your presentation. It's creepy. People are going to be like, what are you doing? Stop that. Stop that. So you have to be very careful. So going back to my quote, that hands are like an emotional highlighter of what you're saying. You have to do it with intention. Even when you're counting. Use your fingers when you're counting. That's another visual. It helps people understand your message and it also can help clarify when they realize, oh, she's still on point one. Got it. And then, oh, now she's at 0.2. Oh, now we're going to point three. It just helps. It really helps the flow of the conversation, the flow of your communication and your message.

We did an episode not too long ago about structure, so it helps clarify the structure because we always say that 99% of what we coach on is clarity, clarity, clarity. And you're Bringing up some ideas and insights we've never even touched upon. So thank you again. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I know you also have a program on how not to suck on video.

Yes.

I love the directness. Mark. I think she must know Ford sakes or something because he's very direct as well.

Yes.

In that program that you have. And I know you also consult. If you're listening to this and you want some help, please reach out to Blanca blancacob.com but what are some of the things that you advise now that we're in this little box? How we can bring it to life or mistakes that you see?

One mistake that I help my clients avoid is rambling. You have to talk with meaning you have to talk with the message. So I train people to be better calm, confident and charismatic. Whether you're on TV or whether you're on video. You cannot talk just to talk. You have to have a point to your message and you want it succinctly, particularly with your on television because segments are timed. Segments are tight. So say the most with the least words you can and use pausing. Pausing helps to slow you down. It helps your audience, your viewers, their mind can marinate on your message, what you're saying, and it really helps with retention and clarity of your message. So that is a big mistake. And then when people get on television, they want to talk about themselves. I'm just going to lay it out. Nobody cares about you. They care about your message. How can you change their life? What is in it for them? That is what's important. That's why they're going to invite you back on television. Because you're taking your message and you're making it usable, relatable, adaptable to all the viewers who are watching. I've done. I've been very blessed and fortunate to have done so many TV shows. But part of what I do when I talk about body language is I relate it to the audience. How you can use this. If I'm talking about the trial du jour, the court case of the day, I will talk about what I'm seeing on a witness stand. But then I'll turn it and say, this is how you can apply it in your own life. Because that's impactful, it's important.

And that's so valuable because now we realize it is. So Darren has a phrase. Blanca. Darren says it's not about the pimple. That's my very bad Darren impersonation. We get caught up on how we look sometimes and we forget the message. Is really what's important. But you know, so many people now over the past year have had been forced to leave the platform and use a new platform, a virtual platform, the zoom platform. We get caught up about our backgrounds, what behind us, the lighting and all that. We get so caught up in that there were one or two very basic things we need to be aware of, of how we come across on the screen. How can we not show the nerves we might feel? Because it's a new idea. I've got to talk to a camera. I'm so used to seeing people. Hey, Darren, it's so good to see you. Oh, Blanca. And we're not having eye contact with the camera. How can you advise us to make us more relaxed with the idea of being presenters in the virtual environment?

I will answer that in one second. I want to go back to what you just said when you were talking about background. Background is important because it needs to be neat, clean and tidy, period. It doesn't have to be fancy. And there's a difference. People want fancy, doesn't need to be fancy. Clean, neat and tidy is what I tell my clients. If not, you know what's going to happen. They're going to. Someone's going to see socks on the floor and they're going to start not paying attention to you. They're going to look around and be like, wait, is that what's happening? You've got to be kidding me. Is that really a T shirt, those socks? What's happening? You're not going to pay attention. So your background is important that it cannot be distracting. Clean, neat and tidy.

Clean, neat and tidy.

All right, so going back to what you said, a tip that I have for my clients and I will share with you all. When you're nervous and you're in the moment and you're already on camera, there is something that you can do to help calm yourself. So what I want for both of you to do right now and do this with me, because I'm going to do it with you as well. I want you to squeeze your toes really, really tight. Just squeeze them so tight, almost to the point where it hurts. Keep it there for a couple of seconds. Now I want you just to release it and notice the difference in that sensation, in the feeling. So that pent up tension when you were squeezing your toes and that relaxation, that's a difference. It's a way for your body to help process and get rid of some extra angst and anxiety that you're feeling in the moment. And nobody knows that's the beauty of it. We're looking at each other right now on the zoom call, but we can only see the top halves of our body. And even if you're on tv, it's rare that the camera is going to focus on your feet. No one's going to know.

I have not done TV for a long time. In a previous life I used to do school presentations and my employer would book me to do Good Morning LA or something. You get three minutes at 6:38 in the morning. And I'm not sure how many people have those kinds of opportunities. But when we do get a chance to be in media for a three minute segment or a nine minute segment, Darren has done several of those also in Las Vegas. What advice would you have for us if we do find ourselves being interviewed live to sort of shed that nervousness and to present to the audience a picture of confidence so that we won't suck on tv?

So you don't suck on tv. You want to make sure that you're looking at the interviewer. So all the tips that I give, just so your audience knows, you can use this if you're making your own videos to promote yourself, your product, your company, your service. So it goes both ways. So when you're on TV and you're talking to an interviewer, you just want to focus on the interviewer and make sure it's a conversation. It's not an interrogation where they're asking a question and you're giving an answer. It's a conversation. You're sharing information. One thing that trips up a lot of my clients when they're talking, whether it's on video or, or on tv, is if they say something in the wrong order from what they really wanted to say. Guess what? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what you were gonna say. So if you mess up your own order, that's okay. Fill in the blank, don't make a big deal. If you make a big deal, then everybody else is gonna take it as a big deal. You say, I wanna add or this is another point I wanna illustrate. Sometimes you may not even need that. Just slip it right in. The only time it's a problem is if you're talking about something that's Chr and you miss a step in that situation, you're like, oh, Darren, I forgot 0.3. Let me go back and talk more about 0.3. Just subtle. Don't make it a big deal. It makes it very, makes it easier. And I talk about having a conversation because if you think like you're talking to a friend, that automatically helps decrease the nerves that you're feeling because it's a chat, it's a talk. And then if that doesn't work, then think about the one person who's watching whose life you're changing with your message. What that does is it helps get your ego out of the way because you're not thinking about yourself, you're thinking about the one person who's watching in that moment whose life you're changing with your message.

I have a question regarding that because now what we're finding, Blanke, is so many people are now being podcast guests, many are becoming podcast hosts, and we're doing these Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn Live programs. And Darren and I do get requests to present or be part of a podcast. And invariably the podcast host asks you about yourself. And at the risk of sounding arrogant or being self serving, what advice do you give to those who are being interviewed on TV or in a podcast? The questions directly are about you and your life, but you don't want to come across as me, me, me, me, me. And you don't want to see seem arrogant. Are there techniques for one, how we physically present ourselves and two, how we respond that might help those of us who are navigating that tricky place between seeming egotistical and simply wanting to answer the question.

That's a fabulous question. And if we go back to the beginning of when I introduced myself, I gave you a story, I gave you a snippet, but then I told you what I did with it. And that's a very powerful way of talking about yourself and how whatever it is you're saying helps other people. I got into becoming a personal trainer because I weighed an extra £50 and it was impacting my health. So this is what I have done. So you keep it short and sweet, but this is something you have to practice before you even get on camera. What is it that's important? So this goes back to what I was saying. Preparation is so important. This isn't something that you can wing anymore, that you can wing your presentation and you need time to think about it and leave it alone. I'll tell my clients this too. Once you start creating a message, you can walk away from it, think about it, do something different, take a walk, come back to it later on that day or another day and you'll be amazed of how differently you can see it and how much more you can add richness to what you are working on.

One of the behind the scenes thing that I do to do exactly. What you were talking about is I have a little post it note, like it's the last time you're gonna be able to help someone. So right next to the camera, it's that constant reminder, like, this could be the last time you don't know who's listening, that one person, like you said that you could be helping. So that's my reminder to get back to my intention. Get back to my intention. I have one question. We coach people in pausing. So I have a term from. I grew up in Boston, so we call it shut up, Boston term. But saying it and getting presenters to actually do it are two very different things. How do you coach your clients to pause or know when to pause?

When I'm actually working with a client, we work on their message and when they're starting to deliver their message, I get a sense of how they're going to present it and I will actually physically tell them, stop, stop, take a breath. If you're in front of a group of people, then you can look around and just see the impact it has. Or you can just stop for a minute if you're on zoom and just take a deep breath and then continue. Because again, the message is for your audience and you're doing them a disservice if you're rushing through your presentation because they're not going to get those messages, they're not going to get the impact of what you're trying to deliver. So I physically tell my clients to stop. And this is where a lot of presentation training is, self training, meaning you have to go through your own presentation. And when you practice it and doing dry runs or video recording yourself and watching it again, you need to think as though you're an audience member. How is this impacting me right now? Watching this, listening to the voice inflections, that's important. Am I rushing through? These are questions you should be asking. Am I rushing through my message? Or if you get stuck on something, how can I say this differently or better? I will tell you one thing that I do when I'm on national shows. I practice. I rehearse up into the minute I'm on stage because I will check myself. This is what I want to say. Is there a different way to say it? Can I say this differently, more impactfully? How can I change my words? That's something my mind is constantly doing before. Before I get on set and it's time to go live. Majority of the work I do is live well.

What I really admire there, Blanca, is this. We are Talking with Blanca Cobb, a body language expert. But you say you prepare your presentation and you rehearse your presentation because you seem to have cracked the code of the synergy between the spoken word and the presentation of the spoken word. And much of what we encounter are those who are very strong on the verbal, but not as strong on the presentation. So we invest time coaching the presentation itself as well as the words. So if what I'm hearing correctly, if I'm hearing you correctly, I'm hearing we need to work on both equally and as professionally as possible so that we can serve the audience and they get the message and they get a takeaway and they have something that they can do with what you have to say. So I walk into this meeting today to this podcast, hearing, okay, I'm going to hear all about body language, about my eyes, my hands, my knees, but I'm hearing so much more about how the message can be crafted well, finding the right words to coincide with the image that we present. So therefore, you are actually reinforcing what Mark Brown teaches. Don't give a speech, deliver an experience. One of my Marcus. Don't give a speech, deliver an experience. And thank you for the practical ways that we can do just that. Darren.

Mark, I think this podcast episode is the most npm, most nods per minute when she's talking. When she's talking, you are like, huh, huh, huh, huh. Yep, she's right about that, too. And I love that she's coming from a different angle than we do usually as well. And one more quick question on the pause, because I think this is so important. Our mentor, her name is Ms. Patricia Fripp. She has coached us, and she's from the other side of the pond. She loves my impressions of her, but she says we must pause to reflect. So don't pause for effect. Pause to refer, reflect. Most important moments of learning come in moments of reflection. And so how, again, do you help them other than you pointing it out? How do you help them figure out, okay, you need to take a breath here. You need to shut up here. I get that they got to watch it and feel it for themselves as well, but how do you identify those moments?

How do I identify it for them?

How do you help them identify them? Or for our listeners? How can they identify, self identify?

Well, this can go hand in hand. Actually. What I do is what I teach them to do for themselves. When you're going through your message, you have to think about what is most impactful. And when you figure out what's most impactful, Then you pause because that gives people time to think and reflect on what you actually said. And it gives you an opportunity to look around the room. And if you're on Zoom and you're on the gallery view, you can see how your message is resonating with other people. The only problem is sometimes people take that to heart, which they should to a certain degree. But you have to qualify some things. Not everybody is going to be as engaged. So what that means is not everybody's going to be riveted by what you have to say at the edge of their seat and leaning in and nodding. That's not going to happen. So what I do tell my coaching clients is this. Don't be discouraged by that. People are going to be on their phone. Some people might zone out, but here's the deal. You don't know what they're doing on the phone and you don't know what they're thinking about when they zone out. So I try to flip it to the positive because maybe they're texting someone or maybe they're writing notes on their phone, or maybe they're tweeting something that you just said. Maybe the person who's zoning out and you're thinking that they're not interested. They're really thinking about what you said, thinking about a situation that generated a thought.

Hmm. We recounted so many speakers who get concerned about the audience member who's got the closed posture. They don't want to be there. Their boss told them, you got to attend Mark Brown's seminar. And you walk in and you go, ooh, hostile audience. Their body language tells me they don't want to be here. They have to be here. How do you advise a presenter who encounters this and now gets distracted by the clearly obvious closed posture? And those of us who are not seeing this, I've got my arms closed, I'm kind of scowling, I'm leaning back, I'm telling you I don't want to be here. How do you advise that speaker who hadn't handled that before?

Don't care, don't care. Your message will not resonate with everyone in the audience. It's just not. And that's okay. But when people, people start thinking about someone's liking and not liking it, they're listening, they're not listening. It. It's a head game. Then you're so focused on everybody else, you lose yourself in that message. It throws off your mojo. So that's why it's almost like a double edged sword. You want to pay Attention to it, but you don't want to put complete stock into it.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. Pay attention to it, but don't put too much stock into it. You're aware it happens. Of course, we all want perfectly loyal standing ovations every time we present. That's not going to happen. But it has become a real concern. I mean, Darren has a background in comedy and he. To tell the story of, you know, a ceiling fan, give a joke and then. But there are also some openly hostile audience members which I really can't speak to. I'll let Darren kind of address that because we present in different circumstances. Some people do want to get. Get their chops doing the stand up comedy and they go to an event and the crowd is hackling and hassling them. It's not as body language. It is actually hostility towards them. And again, don't care. Sounds great in a corporate environment, but if it gets kind of dicey in a comedy club, how could I. Because I haven't done it. I've not done it before. How could I face that with confidence? What would you advise me to do?

There's.

I would say yes. And so you're acknowledging what they're saying and you're moving in a different direction. Okay, if it's a yes, but that's confrontational. I hear what you're saying and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because a lot of times people want to be validated. They just want to be acknowledged. And I know as a speaker, as a presenter, sometimes that stinks because you're like, I don't deserve this level of disrespect, which we all understand and I get that. But when you're in the moment, what else can you do? If you ignore them, maybe they'll stop. But in psychology that's what we call it, an extinction burst, which means a bad behavior gets worse before it gets better. Or you give them an acknowledgement and then you can move on. Yes, and seems to be very helpful.

I had a lot of extinction bursts in my early days of stand up comedy, which is why I became a speaker now. I love what you're saying. And just going back to the pause for one second, one of the things that I love is the lyric by U2 and they say, scream without raising your voice. And my other coach that helped Mark coach me, he said, put a three heartbeat pause before that important line and a three heartbeat pause after that important line, thus holding it up. It's important importance. And I think sometimes we've got to See, what are those important lines? We think we know what they are, but sometimes the audience will give us clues. So we've got to listen for those clues. Ooh, when your mom said this or when who said that? And so I like to then go back and say, okay, this is the key line of the story that they need to absorb. And usually, too, it's when there's an emotional shift. But anyway, this isn't about my coaching. We're tapping into you and what you have to say.

Mark.

Question for you, Avlanca. I'm a presenter. I've gone to an event, and I feel not just that the audience is disengaged, but I feel I'm bombing. I'm off my game. How do I not become a human, tell to the audience and throw myself to the sharks? How do I protect myself from them seeing that I am bombing? Is there anything I can do to sort of shield myself from that awesome vulnerability?

Yeah, you do. What is you really wish you could press a button and this curtain would just fall in front of you, right? Yeah. And that doesn't happen. So in the moments like that, really, you have to condition yourself and do cognitive self talk and say, okay, what can you do differently? And if you switch to an activity or you invite someone in the conversation, it gives you a momentary break, so you're not in this panic mode. And it might help you regain control of yourself and where you're going in your conversation.

I like the ending of that. You said regain control of yourself and where you're going. Because in my experience, the mindset often is, how do I regain control of the situation? How do I regain control of the room? How do I regain control of the event? You are saying regain control of yourself and then you regain control of the event. So I'm going to yank the wheel very slightly here and kind of put you on the spot. So, Blanca, what have Darren and I been telling you by our body language for the last 45 minutes?

And that's all the time we have.

Thank you.

What your body language is telling me, and I will tell you, when I do these interviews, I tend to look straight into the camera so I can see through my peripheral vision. This is how I make eye contact, is making sure I'm looking at the camera. So what I've been able to tell is that you're both very engaged. You're letting me know that you're interested in what I have to say. You're nodding heads, I'm hearing you. Which to me says, I'm hearing you, I'm agreeing with you. And please continue. And then I can see the expressions on your faces are like some wow moments and they're engaging, they're inviting. So just looking at those three things in my peripheral vision says a lot.

Yeah, it's fun.

You're relaxed.

When we stop recording, you can tell us the bad stuff. So. But you're very kind. Thank you. Hopefully there's no 50 Shades of Creepy. That was actually the TV show.

Well, really quickly, the reason I ask is, I mean, for those who are not watching and listening, I have been. I have had my head down several times. I'm taking notes, copious notes, and it's kind of hard to take a note and look at you at the same time. And I didn't want to offend you, but I appreciate the fact that you realize that because, you know, even the way we laugh can be disingenuous. A laugh can be unreal. It can be ha ha ha ha. Sure, you can almost tell if the laugh is not real or if I could do my, you know, my Jeffrey Holder. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Seven up his Krispy Kreme laugh. It's a humorous laugh. But it occurred to me that you taught me to even listen to the way people laugh in response to a line I might think is funny because some, sometimes people give you a pity laugh. Oh yeah, that's really funny. We all kind of get that. Well, not Darren. He's a comedian. He's funny. I'm just funny looking. But I realize now, I have now been attuned in the last several minutes, Blanca. I've now been attuned to listen more closely and to look more carefully at audiences when I'm presenting, but also at presenter when I'm in the audience, both physically there and also virtually. So I found this to be highly, not only entertaining, but informational, educational and informative. And now when we're all done, Darren and I do two full two day programs together. So I guess we're going to be assessing each other differently now to make sure we're sending the right message. Because one day Darren called me on it. He says, mark, you need to smile more. The audience is seeing you. And I confess that to everybody here on this podcast. There are times I've been off my game and thankfully Darren has drawn me in. So thank you for the reminder and for encouraging me to look for that more closely. Blocked by what you have said. I really appreciate that, Darren.

And is it illegal for you to play poker?

No. I get this question from time to time, do I play poker? And I don't. I don't play poker. So I'm never. I'm not watching. Although maybe you should.

Maybe you should. You could be a millionaire and be like, oh, he's lying, he's lying, he's lying. All right, I'm all in. All right, so back. Forgive me for that one dorky question, but I'm a dork, but I own it. So there you go on speakers, telling stories. So there's the person who's the narrator, who's the speaker who's explaining it. And then they go into a story and they're taking on a character. What advice would you give when they're trying to take on that character to express the body language or the quote, unquote, tells of. Of the emotion in that dialogue?

One thing that I tell people is you want to make sure your character that you're assuming isn't standing in the same place you are, so you physically want to move. And then if they're feeling happy, you need to make sure that you're feeling it. This is where acting comes in. We can see the really good actors from the actors. Like, we're like, oh, my gosh, I hope they're never in another show again. But you want to feel whatever it is you're conveying. So let's say you have someone who smacks gum and has her hand on her hip. So when she's talking, you got to make sure that this is how she's talking the whole time, smacking gum. And then when you're narrating or you're you again, then you go back into your original position and your original body language. That really helps distinguish the two. And it conveys, okay, this person, this character is really different from me, what I'm talking about. And it's entertaining. Part of what we do needs to be entertainment, and it's engaging, and people seem to enjoy that. And it also helps, again, with the visual learners.

When we have live events, we used to coach people, and we'd bring a hula hoop, and I would put a hula hoop down and say, step into the hula hoop. I called it a hologram. You become the character, you step out, and then you're the speaker again.

Yeah. Regarding that acting piece, I find, though, where I have an issue is when the character shifts so dramatically. Somebody's crying, they're in pain. How will I ever handle this? And, you know, all of a sudden, you get jerked out of this character and there's no transition. It almost seems overly done. So when you say become the character, we have to find a way to transition from one to the other without it seeing, like, an emotional yank for us. How would you advise presenters to portray those characters in a smooth, seamless way?

What you can do is you can have some kind of nonverbal sign before you jump into that character. So whether you. You're standing in a different position and let's say you just move your hands down or your hands up, so that's a cue to the audience that a change is happening. And it doesn't have to be those motions. It could be something different, a different gesture, but it also puts in this pause because you do want to pause, which helps with that transition. Also.

This has been so helpful to me, and I found myself saying, do I dare make the comment? I'm going to be bold. I'm going to dare make this comment. I am trying to imagine what it must be like to be a young man who was dating someone who's a body language expert and wondering, how is she gonna read me on that first date? You know, I just. I'm just curious to know if you. If in your travels and in your work, you ever had people who were nervous around you because they thought you're gonna read everything they do. You're gonna, you know, you're gonna figure them out. What was that like for you?

I'm curious what happens when I tell people, when people ask I should say, what do I do? And I tell them that I'm a body language expert. They do what I call this body lockdown. All of a sudden, they're protecting their body, arms crossed, legs crossed, their shoulders chunking in, whatever, and they're like, what am I thinking? Are you a mind reader? And I'm not a mind reader. I'm a body reader. So your emotions dictate how you're going to behave. So if you're angry, more than likely you're going to show that you're angry. I'm going to be able to get a sense of that, the same as if you're nervous, if you're happy, if you're scared, whatever that emotion is, even if you're skeptical, I can just read the outside. And a lot of times the outside, what you're showing corresponds strongly with what's happening inside your body. What you're thinking, that's the mesh there. And that's why people are like, wow, you really get what I'm saying? It goes one step further because people Feel like I get them as a person and that's really impactful with body language.

I feel a lot less intimidated now because. And I'm being a little facetious, but I can imagine individuals being a kind of concern. Wow, she's going to read me. She's going to know what I think and what I'm hearing is. And friends, trust me, Blanca Cobb is a wonderful human being. Don't think that she's going to try to intimidate you or find out your darkest secrets by watching her face. No, no. I just. I realized that I'm learning that if we can figure out how to accommodate, how to serve, how to bless, how to be clear in our communication, our body language can really support our message in a way that serves our audience as well. And as presenters, it's a tool to magnify the message, to increase our level of service and for us to truly be unforgettable to our audiences. Darren, I'll let you get her info while I gather my thoughts and get my keepers together.

Mark, before we do, I have one more question that would involve you. One of the things that we teach thanks to Mark's mentor is there's six basic human emotions. He said. David Brooks, world champion 1990, said, we all have different stories. We all share the same six emotions. Any advice on maybe how to express. And Mark, you can list them off. I know you have a photographic memory. And by the way, Mark, I wasn't nervous until you brought that up. Now I'm like, she's reading me. I'm like, anyway, so what is it, Mark? Happiness, Sadness.

Happiness, sadness, anger, fear, surprise. And disgust. Happiness, sadness, anger, fear, surprise, disgust. Six.

I'm going to add a seventh. It's contempt.

Oh, yes. Well, the one list I had was first arrived back in the 1950s, I think I forget his name. Psychologist, but add contempt. Thank you. I'll do that right now.

There you go. I love when we learn stuff. This is awesome. So, Blanca, in getting those emotions across, and I know we don't have time to go in detail because we're wrapping up here, but any advice and okay, my character is sad. My character is disgusted. So obviously we talked about. You have to feel it. Any advice on how we could try and capture that emotion?

You can trick yourself. You can try. And that's if you start making those muscle movements that look like the emotion you're trying to convey. So with disgust earlier, let me use that example since we talked about it. So if I feel disgusted, I can just imagine walking into a Public restroom and there's vomit and overflowing toilets of diarrhea. I mean yolk. So see, look.

Good job.

Strong visual, Jonka.

Wow. That's how you can start priming your brain to think that way. Visualize the same thing with happiness. What is the time that you have been really, really happy and excited, whatever that is. The same with sadness or anger. Nobody has to know what you're thinking, but you want for them to see that emotion. So you have to really, like, put yourself in that situation and that helps.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And as Mark ties up his notes, I have one last question for you. Usually when we sit down with someone, we ask them, okay, if I'm an emerging presenter. But I'm going to ask you that. If you were sitting down to have coffee with, let's say, a highly paid professional speaker or presenter, what advice would you give them? If you had one critical piece of advice, what would you say to them? Or ask them.

You've stumped me. Let me think about this for a second. What piece of advice would I give an experienced speaker?

Right. If they. Let's just. Let me give you a little more of scenario. Let's just say you've seen them present and you've seen that, yeah, they might be highly paid, they're enthusiastic, but they got a couple of issues or a couple of concerns. What advice might you give someone who sincerely wants to be better but doesn't really know what to do? They truly want to be unforgettable. They're good, they're confident, but what could take them to become unforgettable?

Great question. And the answer is I would have to watch them. It's like going to the doctor, not telling the doctor symptom and you're expecting them to diagnose the problem. I can't do that. So what that means is I would have to see them in action. What are they really good at? Are they conveying the emotion that they're trying to. What is their message? And then once I look and see how they present, then I'm able to spot, okay, this is what I would say in order to take you from this level to this level, to bump it up.

Fair enough. Well said. Like a true expert and blank. If somebody wants to reach out to you and get consulting or take your program hownottosuckonvideo.com how would they find you or reach out to you?

You can find me on my website, blancacab.com, you can find me on a majority of the Social platforms. I'm on clubhouse, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. Blancacab, Facebook and YouTube is blancacab dash body language expert. Or you can send me an email blancalancacob.com and I'm happy to chat on how I can make you calm, confident and charismatic on camera.

Nice. All right, Mark Brown, what do we have for recaps for keepers?

A few keepers here. I like this. There is power in words, but when you slow down you are more impactful. Love it. Regarding movement, you wonder why they wonder. Walk. Talk with intention. Use of hands supports the structure of your speech. Talk with meaning and talk with a message. I love this one. Hands are emotional highlighters of your message wisely. For those on camera, keep your background clean, neat and tidy and for economy of words, say the most with the least words you can Being interviewed. It's an interview, not an interrogation. So have a conversation and share your information. That's so poetic. Always think as though you're an audience member and in keeping with slowing down, remember you must pause on what is most important. Blanca, I have enjoyed so much the brilliance of Blanca and I want to thank you for sharing your wisdom, your time, your love and expertise with us. I'll let Darren bring us home.

Yeah. Blanca, thank you for joining us. She also has a new ebook coming out, Emotions behind the Mask. Blanca Cobb, thank you for your time. I hope we can bring you a lot of our listeners who need your help and thank you for blessing us with your personality and wisdom today. Thank you Blanca Cobb for helping us be unforgettable.

Make sure you subscribe to our show.

Remember to subscribe because if you miss a week, you miss a lot.

If you like this episode, please leave us a review. If you want to get more from Mark and Darren, check out Stage Time University where they provide experience, presenters, a proven path and world class feedback. To become the speaker everyone is talking about, go to stagetimeuniversity.com join us next week. If you're going to take the time to prepare a presentation, make it unforgettable.