Ep. 86 Live Coaching With Denise Banks-Grasedyck, Speaker, Author

Hey there, Marc. We haven't coached anyone in a while and I really just, I love the value of people kind of pulling back the curtain and seeing what we do behind the scenes. So, Mark Brown, who do we have today?

I am delighted because today we have a pro, a true pro who's unique. We have Denise Banks Grasvenik, an American living in Germany who was an author, a coach, a trainer and a presenter in English and German. She's a delightful person to get to know and I can't wait to let our listeners, our friends and our viewers meet this amazing personality who will help us learn how to be unforgettable.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unknown unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? Ahas, let's dive right in.

Mark, Mark, Mark. I love the courage that Denise has. Anyone who gets coached on our podcast live. I just think for people who truly want to be unforgettable, if you're not willing to get coached, why should anyone pay you? Why should anyone listen to you? If you're not willing to be world class, we need that coaching. So it takes courage to get coached. And truly, Denise, you embody that. So that's one of the reasons I, we invited you to be here with us. Mark.

Guten abend, Denise. Wie this evening.

Guten Aben.

That's my German. Just good evening to her. Good afternoon. That's all my German people. I can fake it well. But Denise, what a delight to have you with us today. How are you?

I am very well and I'm so, so happy to be here. I'm looking, looking forward to having you kind of take me apart. So you and Darren. I'm really looking forward.

Awesome. Well, you have a story that you've been doing for a while, but you're re energizing it. You're giving it an upgrade and so you're going to work with that today. Tell us a little bit about who's your focus so the listeners can get an understand of who you're trying to connect with, who you're trying to help. So who's your focus?

The focus of the audience that I want to reach with this is leaders in organizations, leaders who are in the community, people who see themselves as leaders.

And you are a believer, you teach value based leadership, correct?

Yes. That's your first values based leadership. All right, so that is what I.

Do for our listeners. We're not going to tell you the main message because together we're going to discover it and make sure it's clear. So she's just going to give her presentation about eight or nine minutes and then we are going to dissect and tweak and Mark is going to give his ninja skills about asking questions and help Denise to upgrade the story. And all of us need this. Mark, you know when I just got coached recently on my new Game Changers keynote, I got coached. We get it. We get coached in what we do. So that being said, Denise, I am going to give you a little background applause here to make this official. And is this the opening of your presentation or in the middle somewhere?

No, that we're going to start right at the beginning and what we'll see is that I've taken it and condensed it so it could be a smaller version of a keynote. And I'm looking forward to what you say as to how we can, how I can expand it or make it into a full keynote, maybe be able to. What I'm looking for is to be able to use this in different settings as well. So we're going to start right at the beginning and it usually there's a lot of interaction. So I'm taking the presentation and presenting it a little bit differently for this audience so that it also makes sense in this context of not being in the room.

And if you're watching the YouTube version of this, she's going to look at her notes and that's okay. That is welcome. Because we're in the laboratory, we're behind the curtain, working, tweaking, trying a little of this and a little of that and see what explodes and one just goes flat. Mark?

Yeah. Please, friends, take note of this process. This is what so many presenters go through when you do not see in the background. It's a in depth work to get a story that sounds unforgettable on stage. But this is part of the process behind it. So let's get started, shall we?

And what would the title be, Denise?

The title is going to be Step up and share.

Step up and share. Ladies and gentlemen.

Good morning. Here we go. We're gonna make a change. Good morning. Here we go. We're gonna make a change. Join in. Good morning. Here we go. We're gonna make a change. I Know what you're thinking? Why did she come out here singing? It's too early for that. And why did she want me to sing along? It's a keynote, not a sing along. I came out singing because I can and because someone in this room needs to see that it is okay to use every and any gift that you have in service to others. And I came out singing because if I sing well, it might inspire you to use a talent you've been afraid to share. And if I don't sing well, you'll see that it didn't kill me, no matter how painful it might have been for you. And why should you sing along? Because you can. Because maybe you want to. Because it's a chance to add your voice, your power, your presence to this space, to make an impact. And that's why I came in singing. And that's why some of you joined me. And yet some of you wanted to sing along, but you didn't. This is especially for you. Our topic is stepping up Sharing, creating impact. We're always creating impact. And as leaders, we want to ensure that we are creating positive impact. It reminds me of a quote. When we share our expertise, experience and stories, we change lives, improve organizations, and positively impact our world. Okay, I wrote the quote anyway. Three of our strongest human desires are to belong to matter and to make a difference. In other words, to have a positive impact in the world. One of the best ways to fulfill those desires and make that impact is to step up and share our gifts in service to others. What keeps people from stepping up and sharing their expertise, experience and gifts? After two decades in the corporate world, another decade plus educating and coaching people. I see some of you doing the math, so cut it out. Through working with people, I've seen that what keeps most of us from making the impact we could is fear. This is going to be an uplifting talk all about fear and not letting it stop us. We fear we are not enough. Who am I to think that what I have to offer is good enough? I'm not special enough? We fear success. More precisely, we fear criticism and rejection that often come with becoming more visible. Because of our success. We fear failure. What if we put ourselves out there and make a mistake and it was all for nothing? If fear blocks us from sharing, serving and impacting others, what can free us? Well, the answer is the decision to act despite our fear. Some call it courage. How do we make that decision to act when fear of not being enough shows up? You remember what you bring to the table. Not long ago, I was working with a young scientist and she was preparing for her first TEDx talk. We'll call her Lisa. Lisa has a great message on how to sustainably feed the world's population and protect the environment with a simple shift in habits. She is smart, funny. She knows her stuff. And she showed up full of doubt. Who am I to be talking about this? There are famous scientists and experts. They know so much more. And my response was, yes, there are others who know a lot and none of them have your same why? Your exact viewpoint, your passion, your smile. It's that unique combination that you bring to the table. Step up, share impact. Lisa did a great job on that talk. And just like Lisa, most of us know the fear of not being enough. When I first started speaking, I remember thinking, I'm just sharing what I know and what I've experienced. I didn't die and come back to life. I didn't overcome a handicap and climb Mount Everest. And I don't have some genius invention. I didn't even see it as a gift. But my thinking changed the first time I shared my story in public about being assaulted on a subway platform. My thinking changed because that story impacted so many people. That night when I told it in Berlin, someone said, thank you so much. Something horrible happened to me. And what you said tonight makes me think maybe I can finally let go of that pain. Friends, no one can tell your story, teach your lessons, or do a better job of being you than you. Heck, Einstein couldn't even be a better me. And I'm pretty sure he would look ridiculous in this dress. So when fear of not being enough strikes, you can still decide to act, to step up and share your gifts. Anyway, how do we make the decision to act when fear of judgment and criticism shows up? Remember, it's not about you. Fear of judgment tells you, be quiet, dim your light. Because the brighter it is, the harder it gets for others to stay in the shadows. It makes people uncomfortable, so they criticize and judge you, hoping you'll be quiet. In 2007, I was a District 95 champion preparing to compete in the World Championship of Public Speaking for the first time. I was in London at a practice event, and the room is full of people. I begin my speech. It was a high energy day. In the speech, I share how in one day I helped a blind woman, helped an elderly woman cross a busy street, and I ran out of my house at 1am to help a man bleeding on the sidewalk because no one else did. By the end of the story, a woman in the audience actually jumps up. You are goody two shoes and I don't believe you. Her criticism was a punch in the gut. Maybe more people would judge me, call me a liar. Fortunately, a wise friend once said, tell your stories. Period. On the flight home, a man asked about my trip, and I got to tell him the story. He stared for a second and said, I have been that person who doesn't stop to help, and from now on, I'll do better. When you step up, you impact lives. So decide to act despite that fear of criticism and judgment. Finally, when the fear of failure rears its head, trust that your efforts are not ever in vain. In 2018, I competed again as a semifinalist, this time in Chicago. My competition story is about my daughter and I missing our international flight while sitting at the boarding gate. Yes, I have many talents. I spend the next three hours in that airport talking to a stranger who's having a crisis. We talk about struggles. She ends up wondering if I am an angel. Ordinary stuff. After the competition, a man said, I have been struggling in my business and feeling like giving up. After hearing how you kept going, I've decided I'm not giving up. This man, his business, his employees, all impacted by one story. I didn't win that competition, yet I made a positive impact. There's no failure, I say. You'll be fantastic or you will learn a lot. I share these stories not to impress you. Instead, I want to impress upon you that when you step up and you share, you often have a bigger impact than you'll ever know. Friends, if you want to fulfill your desire to belong, to matter, to make a difference, I challenge you. Step up. When the fear of not being enough rears its head, say to yourself, I am enough. And if it helps, you can picture Einstein in this dress. When the fear of rejection and criticism rears its head, don't dim your light. Dare to be yourself, even if you're a goody two shoes. And when the fear of failure shows up, have the courage to act anyway, because there is no failure. You will either be fantastic or you will learn a lot. In this room, there are 70 or 80 people. As leaders, in our workplaces, in our communities, in our homes, let us step up and share. Because when we share our expertise, experience and stories, we change lives, we improve organizations and positively impact our world. In this room full of people, as leaders, in our workplaces, in our communities and in our homes, let us step up and share. When we share our expertise, experience and stories, we change lives, improve organizations, and positively Impact our world. Here we go. We're gonna make a change.

All right. Thank you, Denise. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So in the words mark of David Brooks is terms of feedback. Denise, would you like the high gloss finish? Would you like the satin finish? Or would you like the unvarnished truth?

Oh, my goodness. Please give me the unvarnished truth. The truth will set me free.

Yes. Yes. Look, friends, as you're listening to this, admire her courage, okay? She worked on a presentation she'd done before, but then she condensed it down so she's trying to compress it. She gave it and now she wants to. Unvarnished truth. If you want to be unforgettable, if you. You're not willing to take the feedback from qualified coaches or anyone to just tell you how they thought or felt, you'll never, ever reach your full potential. Mark, this story always rears its ugly head. When you first said, oh, Darren, we have some work to do. What? And I wasn't coachable, but I became coachable through God's grace and Mark's grace. And that made all the difference. If you're gonna transform a story, a presentation or yourself, you've gotta be open to that. So thank you, thank you. Thank you for permission.

Mark, I gotta go first.

I'll go first if you want.

No, that's fine. We'll do this together. It's not just Mark and then Darren. We're gonna do that back and forth and again. Applause for your courage. Kudos, as I say in English, for your. For your courage. At the very beginning, opening with singing I happen to like, because you've. You reinforced that by talking about we have gifts and talents and if we have ways to use them, we should. And I also use singing in my talks sometimes, and it' okay to think poorly for impact because either you're going to be fantastic or you learn a lot. Okay, call back to your own words. And very briefly on the opening, when you said, I know what you're thinking, that may not always be true. My recommendation is something like that you're probably.

You might be thinking.

Might be thinking or you're probably thinking. The app, the use of absolutes in that context is not. Is not advisable. So my first thought was, you're probably thinking or you might be thinking, and the answer is most likely correct. In that situation, Darren Folleth taught him that.

Just a piggyback thought. For people who are listening to this. If you say you are thinking and I'm sitting here, you just opened your speech and that's not what I'm thinking. You just disconnected me from your audience. I'm gonna lean back and you just lost me because you said an absolute. So I love what you're saying, and you're probably right with most of the people, but just add the word you might be thinking or you may be thinking. So does that make sense to you, Denise?

Yeah, absolutely.

Cool.

Mark, you also used the phrase early on about to belong, to matter, and to make a difference very early in the script. What does that line exactly say?

That those are the three things that most people desire.

Yeah. Well, I'm saying in the actual script, what's on the script there? We use those words.

Yeah.

I want to go back for a reason.

Says three of our strongest human desires are to belong, to matter, and to make a difference.

Okay, good. Again, I was. I was trying to find out, was it also an absolute statement, but three of the strongest human desires are right? Three of not the. Not the strongest. Very good. It's clear. But again, it isn't absolute. So as a principle for everyone listening or watching, be very wary of the use of absolutes immediately. I can't think of any case where you will use an absolute unless you're saying, we're all absolutely breathing right now. I hope we are, or something of that ilk.

You'll have one wise guy holding his breath just to prove you wrong.

And I picked up, in principle, I picked up with your story, Lisa's story, I picked up three nuggets regarding the concept of fear. You did tell the audience that this is about fear. And you mentioned the fear of not being enough, the fear of judgment and criticism, and the fear of failure. Interestingly enough, the second one of those, judgment and criticism. Goody two shoes story. The last time you. When you recap your three, you say rejection and criticism. It's a small thing, but consistency, when you have a pattern, when you have a list, when you have specific principles, you have to be consistent. Because there's always some weird word nerd in the audience like Mark Brown who picks up on these differences. And for me, the repetition that is consistent helps me to remember it more clearly. And I don't go, what she said judgment. The first time, it's rejection. This time they're two different things. And I get caught in my brain trying to parse this and figure it out. And you've moved along to something probably even more important. But I miss it because my brain says disconnected. What does she really mean, Darren?

Yeah. And that is the one absolute. If you're going to use a phrase and come back to it, it's got to be the exact same phrase. You can say it a different way, you can give it a different lilt in your voice, but the words must be the same. So that is an absolute. Mark, I'll jump in with one.

Yeah, please, go ahead.

I loved if you were watching the YouTube version of the podcast, you saw this. If you weren't, I loved when, while you were singing, you were waving us in to join along because that's what you wanted. And I just love the metaphor and the example of some of you sang and some of you didn't. And you. You might have missed one. This could be another point where you said, you know, some of you sang, some of you sang, some of you didn't. Because you said some of us were thinking about it. Well, you left out the other ones who weren't ever considering it at all. You know, you just missed an opportunity that, you know, some of you are thinking about it, and some of you, like, oh, no, I ain't doing. So it's like a possible humor. Some of you. I ain't singing. You know, I don't even sing Happy Birthday to my own mother. You know, something like that. Because I was in that category and you left me out. And I was. Because I was like, mark, sing. Sing, Mark, sing. Because I knew I wasn't. Nobody needs. Nobody needs that. So I like that you did it. And what is important that you did right, I want everyone else to hear is you didn't sing for too long. You did not sing half a song. You know, if you go back. Anyone listening is go back and watch Mark's. Mark Brown's speech on YouTube and see, he just salted it enough. So I'm just. This is not a criticism. This is, you did it right. And it's a great example for people to see. The one reason people might not have sang is this is not a song we're familiar with. This is a Denise song, which is okay, but I'm wondering if you need, Mark, one more stanza or something to really get us to, you know, I have to hear it a couple times. I don't know. That's your call. But I like. You did not sing too much. One more overriding thought, Mark, and I'll pass it back to you. When you condensed it, did you condense out any stories?

I did.

Okay, because.

Is it obvious?

Well, what's missing is the. If you want to be unforgettable in your presentation, you have to have unforgettable moments. You told us a lot. You forgive me with the word, but you preached a lot, which was good preaching. But I need that story. I need those moments. So just to point out a couple, I would have loved to see the picture of when the woman rushed the stage and said that to you. Like that's a great moment. Yeah, but you just told us about it. You didn't let us experience. So where were you? You were walking off stage or da da da da da. Or you were standing next to the stage like let us see the scene. And then out of nowhere this woman rushes up. You're a good eat two shoes, you know, and have more fun with the characters. But you said the line. But you didn't let the woman deliver the line with her attitude. And I just think that would be so much more powerful.

Yes, just a question about that because I actually cut those stories out to condense it. So maybe you can speak to. How do, how do I keep some of that in when I, when I don't have a 25 or 30 minute keynote and giving this.

If we don't, and this is for everyone, if we don't remember some moments, we don't remember anything. When we have that opportunity to influence for everyone, I would rather you make one point and one story really deep or more deeply. Mark. Sorry.

Very good.

It's like frips in this side of my head. Mark Brown's in this side of my head. I'm better because of it, but it's not a fun place to live in my head anyway. I would rather you make one point stick and let me because your whole thing is about impacting lives positively. Well, if you're brushing over those key emotional memory pegs, you're missing the point. So if you get the opportunity to do a 30 minute speech, okay, you do it with the stories. If you get an opportunity to do 10 minute speech, okay, you let go of a few of your points. You have one point on what fear is costing you, costing your family, costing your business or your organization. If you hammer that home and I love you, Denise, I'm going to want to know, hear more of you. But if you're just glossing over and just give us these logical points which are good reminders and good content. But I want to go, I want you to go more deeply the story of the scientist, the, the woman, Lisa, who's giving the TEDx talk. Mark, we did an episode about this. Open loops. I want to know what happened. Did she nail it? Did she do okay? Did it take her out? Did she not deliver the speech under the conditions? But I want to hear and feel a moment of you and her having that conversation. And then what was the result, good or bad? We still want to know what happened. One other quick one, just in the same vein. The guy in the plane, I want to see him. What did he look like? Give us the setting. And I wanted to hear him say it because I just. I just think there's a powerful moment there when. When he said that to you. The guy in the plane, when he said that. But you've got to almost set up the moment and let us feel the moment, let us hear him say that to you, and then it becomes more powerful. Mark.

Darren, you said, in several words, what I have in seven. Darren, you mentioned the moment and everyone. A moment is a key point in any story, in any presentation. Darren, you mentioned characters. So to answer your question, Denise, about how do I condense all this down and still be meaningful? The characters, the setting and the reaction to what is said alone in a short time can be significant. I'm picturing you on a platform. We're not physically distanced now. On a platform, in a room, delivering the presentation about. For somebody who's bleeding on the street in the morning. In the morning. And you're helping them. And I'm picturing a cranky woman, probably embittered by life because nobody ever helped her. And before I was able to set foot off that stage, this woman rushed to me. I could see there was fire in her eyes. And she said, you are just a goody two shoes. I don't believe a word of what you said. I was taken aback. I. But see the reaction. You're trying to lead the stage. You're on the edge of the stage. She rushed up. You're not good at two shoes. I don't believe a word you said. You're phony. I don't. She stormed off, and I was stunned. But I realized in that moment. But see the way I deliver that. I'm making this all up. But see the way I deliver it, you get the reaction. Yeah. What just happened? And I don't know what you're following, what the next line was, but don't leave the moment until you. We get a chance to connect emotionally with you. One of Mark Brown's mantras is your stories are about you, but for us. So until I can get that emotional connection, I want to feel what you felt. How do I feel what you felt? It's how you react to her. It's how she approached you. It's her attitude. And then she stormed off in a huff. So we know she's not hearing you. But what was the impact on you? We see it in your emotional response. When your voice shifts, it gets quieter. And then I realized just the way you react, the contrast in how the characters respond and behave, those are small things in a small window of time, which, done effectively, will magnify the moment and reinforce the message. So characters and contrast will magnify the moments and reinforce the message. I'm just gonna make a keeper here that I made up just now, Darren. Okay, I'm gonna write it down so I won't forget it. Characters and contrast will magnify the moments and reinforce the message.

Wow.

I hope I can use it again.

Write that down. Add that into the bookmark that you and I and Frip are.

Okay, I'm gonna put it. It's right here. We'll meet on that tomorrow. But really, I realized, just as Darren says, the man on the plane, I have to guess how old he was. I have to guess if he. I mean, I don't know. What can you tell us in a couple of seconds about him? About the way he dressed, about his voice, his demeanor, Any little thing to give us a picture? Because if you can give us mental pictures, we will get it. I saw a dimly lit streetlight, darkness, somebody on the ground. 1:00am when you mentioned that. Because I think in pictures I could see that. You know, I saw Lisa being afraid to go on that TEDx stage and being stuck in this red circle. But if we get the end of her story more clearly, if we can understand through all of these narratives, if we can make an emotional connection, remember, it's about you or about your character, but it's for us, your audience, so we can embrace. You want us to step up? You want us to see ourselves as Lisa, but say, in spite of that, I will share. You want us to see ourselves as a man on the plane. But in spite of that, we will now step up and share. We want to see ourselves as Denise was attacked on a subway station. But being bold enough to step up and share at the end of all of this, if nothing else, I must feel inspired to step up and share, despite the fear not being enough, the fear of rejection, judgment and criticism, and the fear of failure, all of that, I must walk away inspired to do one thing, share my story. And you're getting us there. And for someone who is still doing a work in progress on short notice, I applaud this, I do have a couple of ideas for you regarding us, your audience, Darrenite and Fripp often preach let's be conversational. So we ask ourselves a question, we look at our script and we ask ourselves, okay, will I say that with my buddies at the local smoothie store or having a coffee? For example, you were talking about Lisa and how petrified she was. And as an insertion here, word selection can be very, very effective. Words like fear is a very well used word. It's an overly used word. You say terrified, petrified, mortified. These kinds of words carry extra weight. So we see how petrified Lisa was or terrified she was. Your script, you say my response was, now if we're talking together, you know what? She was scared. And I told her, look, Lisa. And I told her is more natural conversation than well, Darren, when I talked to my sister, my response was if you normally speak that way and there are times I will wax eloquent so I get grace on this. But if you normally would say, I told her, look Lisa, don't worry, then talk to us just like that. We want to feel a level of comfort with you. We want to connect with you. And the more conversational it becomes, the easier it is for us to connect. The other piece is now we're in a virtual environment. It's hard for us to see people eye to eye and have that conversation in a room. However, I still think that singing works on virtual because I was actually singing along. The second piece is look for portions and places in your presentation, Denise, where you, rather than speak to the audience, you could ask the audience a question. Are there times during this nine or ten minute presentation where you could ask me to perhaps use the reaction button and give a thumbs up or give me a Y or N in the chat? If you've ever felt fear of not being enough, put in the chat. Put yes or put the word fear. Just ask me to physically do something which tells me two things. One, you are interested in what I have to say and two, you're not just going to come and give me what you know and walk away. When you ask for a reaction or a chat input, you're telling me, Mark, Darren, I really want to hear what you think. I want to know how you feel so I can make sure I'm connecting with you and giving you value that serves you. Because everyone, not just Denise, everyone, you need to hear this. It's easy for us as presenters to see ourselves as giving the gift the audience needs. And I really, I've worked hard on this, they need this. I'm going to give this to them. But do they really need that? And one way to find out is when appropriate, interact with them. And just as an aside, Darren and I did a two part series about what your audience really needs. I forget the numbers, Darren, but we did that series in our podcast a few a couple of months ago. It might be worth your while to watch that everyone to see what your audience is thinking, what you're really thinking and what they want from you. So look for places where you could interact and ask the audience how would you respond? Have you been there before? Just give us a chance to connect more deeply with the characters and find ourselves in those situations. And when we get to hit a button, do a thumbs up or type in a yes, we feel in some way more connected to you, Darren.

Excellent. And tell me a little bit more about your friend Lisa who was giving the TEDx talk. Was she talking to you just before it or. Help me out because when we're taking notes and we're coaching, we miss some details because we're capturing the important details.

We had actually been working together a couple of times the first time. So what you're getting is the condensed version of the day the first time we met and the process of us meeting a couple of times and her going from. I mean, I can share this. Her name isn't really Lisa. She actually was.

That's fine. You don't have to tell us her name. That's. That's okay. So you're working with her. Where were you working with her? Zoom.

We met a couple of times. The very first, the very first time we, we met was in. Actually in her. At her place and we did the first coaching session there and then another time we met in. She met me after another engagement. So it was in a hotel and different places.

Yeah, no problem. So what I, what is helpful is again and for everyone listening, we're taking and we're condensing a story. It might been three or four scenes. If you've ever heard Craig Valentine's story where his wife told him, your dream is not for sale. That was a conversation over five days brought down to one line. So for this, pick one of them and just. I was sitting down to coach her and this is just an idea and remember, we're just consultants. You can throw away all of our ideas. I wouldn't recommend it, but at least. But some of these are really good. But they've got to work for you, Denise. And with your truth. But a possible Just metaphor is what you're trying to talk about is sharing our stories, right? Everyone knows about TEDx. People may or may not be aware of the, the red dot, but I think that if you choose to, that could be a cool metaphor. That look as a leader, you don't know when you're going to get that opportunity for your red dot. It could be in front of a large audience, it could be one on one with someone in a boardroom, but share your story, you know, when the lights are on. I just think it could be a metaphor because you're preparing her for the red dot. And oh, by the way, you're a coach, you know, this is also helping selling what you do. If we know like why did she come to you? What did she ask you? I just think there's more to the story. And what did Lisa look like? Like again, don't use her real name or if that's fine, but give us an idea so we can picture her. You can even take one of your other clients in your head or something like that. But we as the audience, it's telling the story in a way that we take the message. That's the whole point of it. So I need to picture her and you, where's the setting? Where's this conversation happen? And she could say, take a look at her dialogue, maybe condense it a little. But she could say, look, this is really important, but I'm not, you know, there's so many more people who are much smarter than me and da da, da da da, so why should they listen to me? And then you can say, even though set up your metaphor. Look, this is your, you get the opportunity, not those other scientists. This is your red dot moment. Anyway, run it through the Denise Mill on that. And I also would love to see you create some Denise isms, some foundational phrases that aren't overused or that are fresh and they're yours. And look at each point. If you look at the points you're trying to make about fear, what phrase could you create that would be sticky? That at the culmination of the story, you then deliver the cure, you know, you then deliver the carry out message. Like for me, after the mark story, if you're not coachable, there is no cure. What's your Denise line? And look at your two or three points and create one for each of them because that's the whole thing we're going to cling on to and what makes it unforgettable for you to take away. And I think I don't know why I'm locking into this red dot because I'm a visual person. But it could give people in your audience a visual. Your whole goal is to get them to. People want to belong, they want to matter and want to make a difference. Well, when you get that red dot moment, you never know when it will be your opportunity. So you're trying to take us from fearing the red dot to see it as an opportunity. That red dot moment is not about you, it's about your opportunity to influence. So Denise's words. But does that make sense?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Awesome.

Mark and I just heard a little rhythm here. You want to take us from fearing the red dot to facing the red dot. Just for argument's sake, you'll get we'll tennantas phrases around. We have to be careful. You mentioned towards the end, change lives, improve organizations and impact the world. Earlier we had belong, matter, make a difference. So there are a number of different lines that have a similar message. Consistency is key. Consistency is key. So if you say change lives, improve organizations and impact the world, which came near the end, which is solid. If we hear those same three phrases earlier, you don't need to have eight triads in a 10 minute presentation. We know it's fear of not being enough, fear of judgment and criticism, fear of failure. We know that if we step up and share, if we face already that moment, we can change lives, improve organizations and impact the world. If I hear that twice, it's reinforced. Couple of really nitpicky things I want to point out to reinforce what Darren said. Stories have characters and they are more powerful. When we can not only see the characters but hear their voices, you magnify that. If we hear their voices with the mindset, the emotion and the demeanor with which they deliver their lines, we want to go from reporting to transporting the audience into the moment. You made mention of being the District 95 champion. It's possible there are individuals in the audience to whom that means absolutely nothing. If you say toastmasters, District 95 speech contest champion, which gave me the opportunity to compete against 30,000 other people or to be one of nine people in the world, just to give a little context, because very often we know exactly what we mean. We live in that space and we'll say something and somebody will not get it happened when I did one of my blog articles about my high school track and field team, Calabar High School, Kingston, Jamaica, going to Pennsylvania and winning these trophies and how these boys had done so well and someone said, how come you didn't mention the girls. Well, Calabar High School is an all boys school, but you don't know that. So it seemed almost a sexist representation of what the men could do. Hum, hum, hum, Champions. I went there for seven years, I knew that, but I didn't think that my audience didn't understand that and I had to clarify that. So similarly, if we use common references to us that we're familiar with, we have to ask ourselves, is our audience going to get this or possibly miss this? It won't apply to this particular presentation for your target audience. Now however, many people who watch this and listen to this are Toastmasters. And the Toastmasters world has truly become global thanks to us moving to virtual meetings so people can attend meetings all over the world. So references that are common to us or local to us may have less or no meaning to those outside. And even Denise, you may have a group of leaders who are able to come in virtually from all over the world who may not be familiar with that reference. So I don't mean to beat you up on that, but for all of us, let's ask ourselves, is there a potential for this to be misunderstood or not understood by somebody in the audience? I want to make sure that they get it. You are rich with stories, Denise, and I believe even though you have condensed them, if we can make them more vivid by characters, their faces, their words, their manner, the reaction, the contrast and the condition, the thoughtfulness helping us hear their voice, you are going to be two shoes. Wow. I will never walk away again when somebody needs my help. Do you think that? Why would they come to me? I mean, I think way smarter than I am. If we can hear the characters voices and become more real to us because eventually you want us to see ourselves somewhere in those stories so we can take this message of getting past the fear to stepping up, having our red dot moment, sharing our stories to change lives, improve organizations and impact our world. Last thought on the power of the triad. You mentioned expertise, experience and stories. So you got two X's expertise, experience and something. Now Darren and I always recommend you go to thesaurus.com and look for words that may be similar. Could I get a word that fits? Or we use rhymer.com r h y me r.com to find words that rhyme for rhythm and musicality that make the phrase more memorable. And I don't know what the answer is because stories are key to your presentation. You want us to step up and share our stories. So I'm not sure if the answer Even exists there. But the thought is, when we use triads, we want to have either rhyme or rhythm to make the triads memorable in the minds of our audiences. That's my last technical thought, but I find this really, really interesting. And there is one more thing that I was going to say to you, and I don't know where it is. I didn't write it down. So I'll just stop talking and let Darren say what he has to say.

Nice. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So, just an idea again to consider. Denise, you got to take this and you've got to just see what works for you. But when you were talking about that, Mark, when you said expertise, experience, I was thinking examples. Now, I know you love stories, but what if they were the stories of your expertise, the stories of your experience, and the stories of your example, or share your expertise. Share your experience. Share your stories or examples. So it's just an idea. It's an X that if you wanted to keep it in line. But I know stories is important. I think a lot of people have that fear of being in front of a larger audience. Well, what if you brought it down to what would you do over coffee? Have you ever had a conversation over coffee where, in private you helped that person or and that person helped you? Look, if you want to have an impact on a community, your red dot could be over a cup of coffee. When you're in front of a big audience, you're just having a cup of coffee with a hundred of your closest friends. Stop trying to be so formal and just help people impact the community around you. You're a leader, and leaders share their experience. They share their expertise and they share the examples from their life. Again, a working idea. And here's the cool part. You can remind them when you share, you both win. You win because you've helped someone, which makes you feel good. They win because they've been helped, which makes them feel good. Good. That is impact or that is influence. Mark.

Yeah. The idea of examples, expertise and experience. You could flip the sentence and say, use your stories to share examples, your expertise and your experience. So stories doesn't become the punch word, but the triad is strong enough as the justification of the story tell. You just step up and share your stories. You know, use your stories to share your expertise, your examples, your experience, and that's how you transform lives. That's how you change communities, and that's how you. But again, this is all a work in progress. You massage, you move things around and it has to sound like Denise in a most conversational way. And I like where this is going. One more thought for you regarding. You made mention of what? Of the story you told in your first Toastmasters contest about being assaulted on a subway platform. I put a note to myself. Did you make us curious about what happened that day? Because I don't believe you want to go into the whole story again. So the question to ask yourself, Denise, and viewers, listeners, is this. If I make a reference to an experience, could I possibly leave the audience curious with an Open Loop Episode 82, Open Loops in our podcast? But you want to ask these questions because you want to view your presentation from the perspective of the individual, either in a seat in an audience or behind a camera and a laptop watching your presentation. And that's why we always recommend, as part of your process, record yourself and then watch yourself as if you're in the audience. Is there a reference? What does he mean by that? Okay, I need to tweak this so the audience can get it. I need to pause there so they can drinking the power of that particular metaphor. All of these tools are part of the process, Denise, of the rehearsal, the tweaking, the changing, the adjusting. And Darren and I know that you are the president of your presentation, but we get to be the consultants on the outside who make suggestions. As I said before, you receive and use what works for you, but you own it and decide, I won't use that, but I can tweak this and I'm definitely going to use that. You own it. It is yours. And we're thrilled to play a teeny tiny part in the process of developing this unforgettable presentation.

Darren, my final thoughts are you could actually create the structure, Denise, of experience, examples, and expertise that. That becomes the structure. Structure your expertise, and then you tell the story of coaching. Lisa, she came to me because she was giving this speech and she was afraid, da, da, da, da, da. But now you have a structure that is reinforced by your triad as well, which reinforces the whole structure and reinforces your triad. So just an idea. And then my last question. The goody two shoes. Like, I think that's a powerful story. Did you learn anything from that experience? What did Denise learn from telling that story? And then that woman saying that.

I learned that in. In that moment, of course, it was a very embarrassing moment to have someone stand up and say, you know, basically, you're lying. It was really in that moment when I realized that it's not about. It really is not about me. This is whatever she's experienced what she's. Her experience in the world. And the fact that afterwards she even came a second time because she immediately stood up, I was still on the stage, and she pointed at me to get. I don't believe you. You're a goody two shoes. And in that moment, I moved on to. There were questions and I just moved on to those. And later she came back to me and said, I just wanted you to know that. Because this reinforced that she did not believe that, that this was, that this was my story. And I just realized that it made her uncomfortable because I feel like, you know, we've all been in a situation where maybe we could have reacted or responded differently and maybe we let that moment pass by out of fear, out of whatever it could have been. And I felt like that that kind of triggered her in that moment and her feeling like, you know, who do you think you are, stopping to help people and remembering a time perhaps when she didn't. And you can't let that stop you from telling your stories. You just. I was actually reminded of someone who had said that to me how people respond or if they, you know, get upset. That's. That's not about you. You have to tell your stories, period. I remember that.

And that could be experience. So the TEDx could be expertise. That one is an experience you had. And guess what? That's what everyone's afraid of on the red dot. They're afraid of that somebody calling them out or saying something like that. So I think it's a great. Or it could be an example, whichever one you, you need to fill if you choose to go that way. I'm also wondering if. Did anyone else give you any feedback like that? Because I'm wondering if maybe there was not a guru who taught you to go and do those things. Does that make sense? I'm wondering if it was how you told the story that she. That triggered her. And again, you can just think about that. We don't have to talk about it if you don't want to.

Yeah, no, she was the only person that responded in that manner. I actually had never had that kind of a response before. And it just made me, of course, in that moment, take a step back and also later on thinking about it. And then when I was on the plane going home and I sat next to that young man, he happened to be an Italian guy, by the way. And in. When I was sharing the story with him, his response was really, he said his exact words were, it makes me kind of sad now. Because I've been that person who hasn't helped and I'm going to change that. So that's, you know, I had those two situations that I could compare to each other. The one person who stood up and said, you know, you're a goody two shoes and nobody does that. And the other person who said, wow, this made me think about the times I have been that person who doesn't help and I'm not going to do that anymore.

Mark, let me jump on this because it's exactly related. So I don't remember if you said this, but I love, love, love the contrast of those two. And I don't remember if you did and if you did perfect. But if you didn't, that's the time to bring it back to the audience and say, what if I didn't tell my story on the plane? Because I think you said of, you know, the ripple effect or something like, to that effect. But just know that that is a moment to bring it back to us. What's it costing ourselves and our community and our family and the people around us if I let that one lady not let me share that same story to a man who needed to hear it. I don't know what happened to him, but I'm pretty sure he started doing and helping people that needed it. Something to that effect.

Mark, I actually wrote a note to myself. Expertise, Lisa, experience, go to two shoes example, the passenger on the plane. Because as an option. But just now, Denise, you said he was Italian. Smile. Yes. He was cute. Your hubby's okay with that, I'm sure. Literally, for three seconds, I felt something. When you used his words in the way he said them. You said you became him. You became him for three seconds. And it touched me.

I felt that too.

Darren felt it too. We don't realize how powerful that is. When we become the characters, let's hear their voice, their own word, their intonation. Let's feel the fury, let's feel the regret in their voices that touches us emotionally, that connects us to your message and that'll drive us to say, you know what? I will be silent no more. I will step up and share. And I am. I'm going to sound very Toastmaster. Evaluator. Ish. It's such a word. But I really am eager to hear when this is completed, what it sounds like, but more importantly, the result of the impact on the audiences, either in English or in German, that get to hear this message.

Darren, I don't know if it's tell your stories or Share your stories. But I like stories as the overriding way that you deliver things. When you share your stories, when you share the stories of your examples of your da da da, like that is how they will have that impact. So Denise, that being said, what have you taken from this experience? And I know you still need to process some. I know there's a lot to process and we hope you go back and listen as well to absorb more. But right here in this moment, what kind of striking you about the feedback?

So one of the things that I am going to use is what you say about keepers and that is don't sacrifice the connection to be concise because that's what, what I did and cut out some of the, the most important things that you know and kind of put the words together, but cut out some of the connection and the, the things that really matter. So that, that's one of the big things that I got from what you have given me today. And there's so many, there's just so much I have to go back and I tried to take a few notes but I also was hanging on your words. So I'm going to go back and watch this again. Really, Really. I think the most important thing is taking a step back and not worrying about, not worrying so much about the perfection of the story, but really the impact and as Mark said, stand on the other side and be in the audience and let that kind of, let that kind of wash over me and see if there are any things that I may have, I may have left out or left them hanging someplace, that kind of thing. And there was so, so much that I'm taking away from this. I feel like, yeah, the red dot, the, the red dot opportunity. I really like that imagery. I like the, the idea of being able to place that red dot in whatever setting we're in. Is your red dot moment going to be in the coffee shop? Is it going to be in your office when you're having a one on one? Is it going to be when you are out there trying to get your entire workforce motivated about something or have to share something that isn't as pleasant? But it's your red dot moment of how are you going to show up with your, your expertise and share your examples and just all the things that you, that you said. There are just so many.

Yeah.

You could also remind people that they, they had, they've already had three red dot moments today. That interaction you had with the cashier, the, the server, the Uber driver, you might not be on a stage under the lights. But you have this opportunity to impact, influence. You've had three already today. It's what you and I do with them. And, you know, you might, even if this works for your metaphor, you might even say, look or remind people they're called TED talks. They're talks. They're not TED formal presentations.

PowerPoint shows.

They're talks. Just that being said, Mark Brown, your final thoughts?

Well, I have to ask the obvious question. We said, denise, do not tell us where you are going with this. So I'm curious to know how close we have come to understanding, to grasping, and to receiving your intended message.

I think that you have understood it, that it really is about taking every opportunity as leaders to impact the people around you, to show up in the way that, you know, aligns with what your values are and to live that out. Because it doesn't help us if we, you know, we have our values and we don't get out there and take action on it. We let whatever fear of. Of all the things hold us back. We are doing a disservice to ourselves. We're doing a disservice to the people that we want to lead, to the people that they in turn, could impact. Yeah. I think you are close to understanding it from the feedback that you've given me, and I appreciate it so much. I thank you so much. I'm looking. I'm totally excited now. That is a good thing when you get excited about.

Your own stories. Yep. And, Mark, I don't know if you got a thought for this, but I just had one that hit me. If your idea is to step up. When Lisa talked to you, AKA Lisa, did she by any chance, when she was saying, but who am I? Was she looking down, almost submissive at all?

She was actually in tears. She stood in front of me and I was holding her voice.

Yeah.

Don't tell us that moment. A moment. What.

She was in tears.

Context. Oh, my goodness.

Kids.

What Kids.

That would be a good thing because we can see that it's a visual. We can see a tear, you know, coming down from her eye. Describe it how you would. But that. That just. That you just upped it.

That's a game changer right there.

Yeah.

One of the things when you were talking about it, what, and you said, you know, what does she look like? The thing that came to mind was because she's. She really is. She looks like she could be on a magazine. She's beautiful. As you were sharing that a moment ago, Darren, I was envisioning sort of this idea of the covergirl looks and the courage of a mouse or something like that was kind of going through my head when you were talking about, what does she look like? And what was the setting? Because that's in that moment. That's what I was thinking. I was like, she's phenomenally smart. She's absolutely gorgeous. And she's standing in front of me like, who am I to be giving this talk? And, you know, why would anyone want to listen to me? Yeah, go ahead.

If I can clarify, I think this might be the idea of the point you're trying to get across. And Mark, I'm trying to think of a down. So I was thinking, look down. Or if we're afraid, what do we do? Something down and turn it into don't look down. Step up to every opportunity. You know, if your thing is step up. The opposite.

Opposite.

What's the opposite that people do? What's that fear? What are you trying to get across of the fear? He shrink, you shrink down. Don't shrink down. Step up to every opportunity. When you're with the Uber driver, when you're talking to the server, they might have had a horrible day, Someone really mean to them. Step up, You're a leader. Step up to every red dot opportunity. Or something like that. Because, Mark, you know how I feel about titles. Remind me your title.

Step Up.

Oh, I. Actually, the title was just kind of a working title, but it's share. Step up and Step up and Share is what I was saying.

And Mark, Mark, please be my buffer on this. When I hear the word share, I kind of cringe in a title just because it's like, shit. It's like, I don't know. And forgive me, Denise, I'm just being honest because I really want to help you. I just think of, I go to Romper Room. Okay. You know, let's share. Okay. And then we'll do milk and cookies right after. And again, that could just be a Darren thing, but especially for your title. And I know it's just a working title, but this is why I'm giving it feedback. So I love the step up part, but, you know, step up and tell your story.

Or step up, you want a more active verb, a more powerful verb. And again, you may find that by saying a few things, by going to thesaurus.com and seeing what's there. But I think what he's saying is a much more active, vibrant verb there would give us reason to lean in to. To invest our time and money to be a part of this Because I want, I want to get the value that that title suggests.

Because the alpha male guys, if I heard someone was coming to give a talk about Step up and Share, the alpha male guys are going to be like, yeah, I can miss that.

Yeah, I'll be on the links. I'll be on the links.

Exactly.

See you on the links.

But now if your audience. Denise, please forgive our stereotype.

We're kidding. We're not being stereotypical. Please, please don't send us nasty.

Why the guys who have the egos are agreeing with me, Mark?

I think it's perfectly fine because it's just a working title for.

Absolutely.

And I agree.

And a female audience, they might like that. Again, not being stereotypical. But you got to figure out your audience what speaks to leaders, you know, what do they want to hear think of for everyone. When you're creating your title, your title is critical. If we don't get past the title to read your subtitle, you're done. You're not going to get booked and you're not going to tell other people to come, oh, hey Mark, this woman is coming to speak about Step up and Share. Will you join me? We can hold hands and kumbay.

I know, I know where you're going with that.

Right, so. But again, to a leader, a different thing will resonate from someone else. So for us when we're creating our titles, we want to be unforgettable. We got to get them in the door. You don't get them in the door, you don't get booked. If they don't like your title, read your subtitle, read your description and say, ooh, we need that. Denise, if somebody wants to find you or follow you, how could they get in touch with you?

They can follow me, find me on LinkedIn under my name, which is Denise Banks minus Grozedic. They can also find me on my website, which is impactandripple.com so www.impactandripple.com. you can also find me under my name at the same website, which is banksgrozedig.com Grozedik is CK.

Well, thanks again for your courage. For I think you're helping more people than you know who are listening to this, but you had the courage to be coached. And Mark Brown, before I hand it over to you, if you want to join Mark and me, depending on when you're listening to this, we have an event coming up, Unforgettable Presentations, which is a seven step process to create that world class presentation. There's A different process for creating a good presentation, a great presentation and an unforgettable presentation. Anyone can create a good presentation. But join Mark and me if you want the seven step proven process that we learned from Patricia that we're passing on to you. And if you join us, just use the coupon code POD P O D25 and you get 25% off for listening to this podcast. Mark Brown, take us home. And Mark Brown. I heard rumors. Les Brown maybe. What?

Well, you know, wouldn't it be nice to get Les Brown? Yeah. Join us 4-21-22 for our program, but we're going to get some of the best in the world. Today we had a very unique guest who was willing to let us help them through the process. Friends, if you want to be unforgettable, commit yourself to the process of learning and growing, using every skill, every tool. Tune in next week for another podcast. We want to help you be unforgettable.

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