Ep. 90 The Unforgettable Storytelling Technique Of Kindra Hall

Hey there, Mark Brown. I'm sitting in the audience in 2017 and this woman walks up on stage, a storyteller. Another storyteller. Oh, I haven't heard that one, but. And oh, my goodness, I was out of my mind. I became an instant fan when Kendra, when you showed that video of the before, which was really good, and then you showed how you changed it and you could feel it, I just said, wow, this is amazing. She gets it like no one I've ever seen. Big fan. Both Mark and I, we have our audibles here, stories that stick. And then you got a new book coming out, the beginning of 2022. Mark Brown, your initial thoughts?

Well, I was there also at Toastmasters, Darren, and I was also quite blown away. And I can't wait, as I always say, to. To unleash on our audience the wisdom of the inimitable Kendra Hall. Let's do it.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the Unforgettable Presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time.

Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation. Ahas. Let's dive right in.

No one does. Teaches and inspires people to tell better stories. Better than Kendra Hall. Kendra, welcome.

Oh, thank you so much, Darren and Mark, it has been a long time coming. I am thrilled to be here with you and, you know, to share the story.

Yeah, stories are the heartbeat of presentations, but it's how you tell it. It's what you choose to tell. And I just never found someone who is even close to being as good a teacher as you. Love your book. You're so transparent. You have 48,000 followers on Instagram. That's today. 40 million. Excuse me. Sorry. You know, tomorrow you'll probably have 51, but thank you so much for joining us. You just have that insight that I think most speakers need, so we're thrilled to have you, Mark.

Yeah, I'm just glad to be here and I'm going to jump right in. Kendra, where did the connection between Kendra hall and stories begin?

That is a great question. It started in fifth grade. I was 11 and it was an assignment for my fifth grade English class. Now, we didn't really have gifted and talented at my elementary school, but there was definitely this English class that was taught by this woman named Mrs. Sprain. And she. Everybody at the school feared her because she was. Well, everyone said she was the meanest, but it was really just that she was the oldest. And when you're 11, like, the old people are scary. And that's all. That's all that mattered. And I think the other aspect of Mrs. Sprain was she demanded excellence. And so it was the. At the end of the year in fifth grade, we had a storytelling lesson, and we were supposed to choose a children's book and then go read it. And so it was kind of the beginning of presentation skills, I guess you could say. We were supposed to go read it to a third grade classroom. So I chose my book. It was the Giant's Big Toe. I was actually just cleaning out my daughter's cubbies in her bedroom over the weekend, and I found it in there. So that was. It was really sweet to find that copy of it. And I remember reading the story and thinking that it was pretty good, but that maybe I could, like, add something to it like, that I could bring it to life in a way. And so when I went into the third grade class, there was actually a girl who read the book. What's that book called? It's. I'll like you forever I'll love you for always as long as I'm living my baby, you'll be right. So she sat down in front of these third graders and was, like, reading this super emotional book to them. And third graders don't care. And it was the end of the day, so they were just. They were crazy. And I knew even then, I think I had this sense for the audience. I knew I was gonna have to do something bigger than that. And so I put the book down and just told the story. Even then, at 11, I could sense there was a change in the room when I wasn't. And you can see this, too. Whenever you're giving a presentation and you're focused on the information and the message. The assignment, if you will. My assignment was to read this book. But by putting that down, in some cases, breaking the rules, just telling the. They were right there in the palm of my hand, like I could make them do anything. And what happened was I just didn't go back to fifth grade. For the rest of the year, every single classroom had me into their classroom to tell that story. And that was really the beginning. Storytelling has been a part of my life and now a very big part of my life ever since.

To say the least. And I know that you had a. I still remember, physics class story about physics class. Would you share that? For people who haven't heard it, the.

Physics class stories, I think this is true for anyone too, as you, you can look at someone's journey and where they are now and you can say, how did this all start? And we all have different stops on our storyline. So for me, there was that fifth grade moment. There was a moment in physics class where at that point I kind of testing could I like I had come up, I had to write a five page paper and the assignment was due and I only had four pages and all that matters is how many pages have words on them. And I remembered that storytelling had worked really well on the speech team. This is when I was in high school and I wondered if maybe a story could work here. So I started testing the power and the validity of stories to fill in gaps. So now for me, it was a physical gap. I needed one more page of text on paper or I was going to fail. And this paper was my only chance to pass physics class because I failed all the time. Really bad at physics. And so it was really a test to see if I inserted a story there, would that not only fill in the gap, but maybe bring it up an entirely different level. And it did. So. And then when I was in, what's funny is that I went to college and I had a paper due and it was supposed to be heavily researched paper. And once again, I left it to the last minute. And so I thought, well, telling a story worked really well in my physics class in high school. Maybe I can do that here. And so I just wrote, it was supposed to be 10 pages and I just wrote like a really long story that didn't go over so well. That was not so, you know, I was testing. I'm like, okay, there does need to be information when it's a research paper and not a creative writing paper. So. But all along, just testing where, where can stories be used? How can they be effective? It started when I was 11, went through high school, went through college, and has just followed me all the way since.

And you also, the video that I mentioned early on that you had showed in your keynote speech, it really was professional and was really good. And they came to you, is that correct?

Well, actually, let me tell you the story behind this story and no one has heard the story behind this story. So yeah, I knew the founder of this company was a purse company. We were friends, like we were in the same community. And I knew her story because she had told it to me casually before. And then she showed me she put a lot of work into creating this video to go on her website. And she just showed it not as a storyteller per se. She was just promoting her purses and sent the video to me. And I remember watching the video and looking at my husband Michael and being like, oh, my gosh, she totally missed it. Like, this is. This is exactly where people go wrong with stories. And that's kind of where it ended, actually. But then I had a mentor of mine as I was trying to. As I was trying to put together my message about storytelling, the message that you would have seen on stage. And I was talking to a mentor of mine, and he's like, you know what you really need? You really need like a before and after. That shows the difference a story could make. I remember we were sitting at an airport in Las Vegas, and this is before I was speaking. I really wanted to. And he's like, that's what you. You can't just talk about storytelling. Like, you really have to make people see it. And I remember getting on my plane, my flight. He was going somewhere else and sitting there, and all of a sudden I was in the air, and it came to me, and I was like, wait, soul carrier like her. And I was thinking about that video that I had seen, and I'm like, she missed it. Like, this is such a. I mean, it was a great video, but it wasn't a story. And so I called her and said, hey, I think we can make this better. That's how that came to be. And then, yes, now it has been a staple in my. Because it's such a great example of what a good video could look like that doesn't tell a story and then what it can look like when they do.

Great contrast. Yeah, it was definitely a before and after. And I love that the first one was so professional and so good. You just didn't feel anything. If it was a cheesy video, then it's not. Well, it could have been just the production quality or something like that. But definitely you proved the story.

Mark, that is so fascinating. We hear the beginning. 11 years old, fifth grade. And now you're changing the world through stories. So somewhere in there is that journey. And you gave me a nugget earlier. You gave me a keeper. You said, we all have moments. There are stops on our story journey. Now, those who are trying to improving stories, was there a part of a journey? Were there stops on the way that included like a story festival or a moth or elocution contest or what were some of Those mile markers on your story journey, to keep the metaphor going, Kendra.

Exactly as I said, I had several of them. So this was back in high school I mentioned I was on the speech team. So as a speaker, it was a very natural progression that started, you know, very young, of course. And while I was on this speech team, I competed in storytelling. And of course I did well, but who knew, who knew what it could be after that? It was more kind of a party trick than anything. And I was telling fairy tales like they weren't even my stories at that point. I was taking classic fairy tales and like I had in fifth grade, just adding energy and characters and emotion and everything to them. But while I was competing on this beach team, there was a coach from another team actually who gave me a flyer. I remember it was like, it was bright yellow and I think somehow I got a second flyer that was bright orange. You know, that fluorescent flyer color, paper flyer color. And it was about a storytelling competition that happened at East Tennessee State University. And you could submit your video to your VHS tape to this storytelling competition. And on the back, each state had a different representative that you could mail your VHS tape to. And honestly, I didn't want to do it. I was in high school, I think it was a senior, junior. Somewhere in there was way too cool for this storytelling thing anymore. Like, what was I going to go tell stories in libraries? Like, this was. I was coming to the end. I was going to get a serious job in advertising or TV or something, sales or something. And the storytelling thing was going to be behind me. So I wasn't going to enter the contest. And then my mom was all over me about writing scholarship, like doing my scholarship essays for college. And I was getting so annoyed with her. Like, teenagers tend to do that. I decided to rebel. This is how I rebel. I was going to film a video of me telling a story and submit it to this storytelling contest. I don't know what the logic. I don't know how I thought that was really going to stick. It tour, I'm not sure, but I did. I submitted. I submitted the video. I ended up making it to the final round. My mom and I traveled to East Tennessee State University. I tell my story there, I win the competition. And the grand prize is not a college scholarship. It meant you got to tell at the National Storytelling Festival. And I didn't know there was really a festival at that point. And the festival happens every October. It is in Jonesboro, Tennessee, which is this tiny little, no stoplight town, but from all over the country, all over the world, really, for that first weekend in October, tens of thousands of people flood this town. They put up huge circus tents and people come just to hear the storytellers. And that was another pivotal stop on my journey. I remember sitting in the audience because I got to tell like one 8 minute story as a youth storyteller. But the whole rest of the weekend I was there to listen to the stories. And I remember sitting in the audience taking in these stories and looking around and seeing that there were people around me from all different backgrounds, all different ages, all different, and yet they were all united around the stories that these tellers were telling. And I also noticed as I was sitting there that I saw stories differently than anyone else than I assumed anyone else did. As the tellers were telling these stories, I wasn't just enjoying them, of course I was. But it was almost like when you see in one of those movies like the Matrix or any of those, where it's like there's like this holographic. And like I started, I could see the flow of the story and the components that I talk about in stories that stick were coming out at me. And I was kind of looking around and noticing that nobody, although everybody, was enjoying the story, nobody was experiencing the story the way that I was. And I think that was one of those. Now, of course, when you go to these events, you end up meeting other people. And each one of the storytellers who I met had bits like little clues. And I pick up on clues, like I told you about my mentor. It was like, I think you need a before and after. And I picked those up like Hansel and Gretel and the breadcrumbs going back home. So that was another one of those stops on the journey when I think I started to realize that I saw stories differently than most people did. Wow.

I got to ask you one more question again. You're going on this journey and there are individuals who are hearing now the power of story for business. Don't just sell a product, a car, a house, whatever, but tell us your story. What is the most common question people have about how to use their story in their business?

I think that's it. And that's actually what then inspired me to speak, to write about storytelling is. Yeah, a lot of people were talking about it. There were books being written about it. I would buy the books and I would read them and get very mad because actually I mentioned I was going through a bit of spring cleaning this past weekend and I was taking out some of Those books. And I'm like, should I just throw them away? And it was paging or donate them. But that's what it was. It was paging through and to see if I should donate them. But then I saw all the comments that I wrote in the margins. I'm like, I can't donate that. That's gonna be offensive to somebody. But I think that the question then that people ask is. Is how? That is the question. We've gotten to a point where it's very much, you should be telling stories, and we need to tell stories. And for some people, I think that's where they stop. And they think that's just knowing that they should is good enough. And then they think that by knowing they should that they are. But that's not the case.

They're not telling it well. Anyone can tell a story. Very few people can tell it well. And to get the right outcome, that is desired.

Exactly. So just knowing that you should be telling stories, even though. And I can see where the misconception would be, because humans are natural storytellers. This is what has made us able to evolve into the creatures and the societies that we have here today. But just because it's natural doesn't mean it always comes naturally, especially when you have specific goals. That's why we talk Stories that stick is about strategic storytelling, not manipulative storytelling. But when you have a goal, information you want somebody to have or a behavior you want somebody to take, it's not good enough to just know that you should tell a story. It doesn't always equate telling one.

Well, I will not get you off the hook. You are going to donate these books because you read all these books about storytelling and you would get mad. So double question. What made you mad? And what was the basis of those notes that said, I need to fix this because the world is not getting enough information?

Yeah, it was the books where they were just. They were just missing it. Like, some of the ones that I read were focused on the performance aspect of storytelling. So it's like use gestures and how to change the tone of your voice, which, again, that is all very important, but it's not the first step. Right. And then they were using. It was so funny to read the books and hear them using examples of storytelling, but they weren't actually even stories. They were just examples. So there wasn't any of that. That feeling of being drawn into it or losing yourself in the story or turn, you know, like turning the page. That's where I was like, none of these. How can these people teach storytelling when none of them know how to tell a story? So that was a little. I think there's. There. There was just an essence that I learned in the stories that I've shared with you. I'm sure it's obvious that I didn't come to storytelling in business through business first. It's not like I was in marketing and was like, ooh, I need to be telling a story. I think that's what happens for a lot of their business people who realize that stories are important and then try to teach stories from a business background. I came first from a storytelling background. And so the things that I learned at the festival and from. From my classic storytelling mentors who were not business people, that was the piece of the conversation that I could bring to the table that I felt like was missing in the other texts about it.

Yeah, there's so much that you do. And I think what I'm hearing as well is there's people have been convinced they need to tell stories. They just don't know how and they don't know the right elements. And I love that you come from non business background and yet you're so savv. Such a hard worker. For those of you listening, Kendra is one of the hardest workers. I think the only person who rivals how hard I work now. She's more successful than I am. However, she's got that work ethic. And I think that's one thing that impresses me. Now, a lot of speakers, they really the one story. If they were going to start somewhere, I would recommend their founder story. And you have a whole chapter of that in your story. Stories that start. And I just love the story of you going to Vegas. You go to the exhibit hall and there's a guy standing there trying to sell his wares. He doesn't know who you are. Doesn't matter. He's there to sell his wares. You come up to him and you talk to him, yes, I am the artist. These are decorative plates.

Yes.

Then he finds out who you are. He's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. And it's like, too late. And I think a lot of speakers miss the opportunity on their website in their demo videos. And some of them have stories in there, but it might be not the story. You have this way. And our friend Maureen Zappala, I have to mention her because she reminded me of this. You have this way of number one, being open and transparent, which is very connecting. But you also have this way of not like a Marketer of making your stories personal to the listener. And I just think that's critical and that's missed by so many. And I'm gonna actually shut up and let you talk.

Yeah, I think that that's where I like that you bring that up. Because as speakers or anyone who is given that honor of a stage, regardless of what that stage looks like, maybe you're an executive in a company or you're on a zoom. Now that so many events are virtual, it's easy because of the nature of it, to think that you are there to share your story so they know who you are and what you're about. And yes, that's part of it. But that's secondary when storytelling is done. Right. It's done with this very clear understanding that the reason you're telling this story is not for your own. Not even. Not even enjoyment, but not for your own esteem or to build your credibility. It is for the audience. And the most effective stories are the ones that the audience can see themselves in. And so any, you know, like, we're there in the story. Yes, it's your story. Like, we can't. And I see people do this. They're like, well, I don't want it to be about me. So I'm gonna. And going to say, imagine yourself in a. Blah, blah. No, that doesn't work. That's not it either. You're not trying to create hypothetical situations. There's a balance between, I'm going to tell you a story about me because it's my story, but you're going to be sitting right next to me the whole time it's happening. Because even if our experiences are different, there are going to be points that I intentionally include where that audience member can see themselves in it. I think where that disconnect happens is people forget that the story isn't about you. It may be your story, but it isn't about you. It's actually always for the audience.

Yeah. Mark Brown has a great quote. He says just what you're saying. In different words, he says, it's your story, but it's for them.

It's about you, but it's for them. Your story is about you, but it's for your audience. That is like gold for us, you know?

And is there any insights that you could give us to help us do that? Because I really think that's what's lacking.

I would say, number one. And this is. And this is the most important insight as people are for presenting. Right. This is unforgettable presentations. I Feel like a misconception in a way that your story has to be really big and emotional and dramatic and that you have to find the most dramatic story of your entire life in order to deserve the honor of that position of giving a presentation in the first place? The stories that, Darren, you mentioned and that you remember from my presentation, I would say I'm a successful speaker. And one of my opening stories is about physics class. Like, it is so small. If you think about it, like, nobody gets hurt. Nobody's dying, nobody. Like, there's nothing over. I had an assignment that I needed to hand in, and I was gonna fail because I didn't write enough words. That is it. So. So that would be the piece of advice that I would give you, is there is this tendency to find the saddest, biggest, hardest story of your life and share that. But again, what story does the audience need to hear in order to prep them to be in the place that they need to be in order to take in what you're about to teach them? And sometimes, And I think, Darren, as you're talking about, like, so relatable or whatever it is, those very. It's because the stories that I tell are very small. They're little things that happen. But it's recognizing the value in the little things that happen. And the connective. Like all humans have little things happening to them all day, every day. Those are the stories that end up being the most relatable and therefore the most memorable. And you get all the benefits of that follow thereafter.

And just to piggyback on that, how do you teach people to find those? If we have all these little insignificant things or seemingly insignificant, how do you know which one? Ooh, this could be a story.

Yeah. I think that that becomes part of the practice of it when you see things happen. So I'm going to take you kind of on that end of the experience. So, like, even yesterday, I was walking home recording this Monday after Mother's Day. So I'm a mother. I was walking. What I did for Mother's Day was go to SoulCycle and then walk home, which is about five miles, and I'm in Manhattan. So as I'm walking home, I see this dad and this teenage daughter and this mother, and they're all rollerblading. But clearly, the dad and the teenage daughter have done this before, and the mother has not. My first thought was, that seems like a really mean thing to do to a mother on Mother's Day. But she's wearing. She. You know, she was in a trap like, she was. She was wearing a helmet, elbow pads, knee pads, like, wrist guards. And they were. They were crossing the street. And it was a one lane. Like, it wasn't one of the big streets. It was a one lane street. And the dad and the teenage daughter just kind of rolled ahead, and the mom was like, on the. On the curb, like. And so she started rolling down the curb and into the street. And they're like, you got it. She's like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And then she was approaching the other curb, and one rollerblade was clearly, like, about to go up the ramp, and the other rollerblade was just gonna ram right into the curb itself. And we're all watching like, no, what's gonna happen? And then the daughter's like, turn. Lift up your foot. And the mom made it to the other side of the street. And everyone around was just like, yeah, you did it. And we cheered. It was this very, very small moment. So when I tell it. That's the problem when you are a storyteller. When I tell it, it makes it sound much bigger than it is. There was a. Literally a mom trying to rollerblade, right? Like, if I were to say, yesterday I was walking down the sidewalk and there was this mom trying to rollerblade, you'd be like, all right, but. Because, you know, like, I. This is what I do naturally. But so what happened is I saw that happen, and I was like, oh, that piqued my interest. Like, I noticed that sometimes we just notice different things. And so now I'm in the practice of anytime I notice something, I'm like, I wonder why I noticed. I wonder why that matters to me. And I realized that the reason this mattered to me is because that mom on the rollerblades kind of has felt like motherhood for the past 14 months. Like, you're just trying to get across this little street, and even the smallest things and your feet are all over, and you feel like you've never done it before, even though you've been a mom for 10 years. So what I would say is number one. And I feel like I'm starting at the end of the spectrum. But now that you've heard this conversation, because to. To be a great storyteller and to use great stories in your presentations, you need to be aware that they're happening all around you, little moments all the time. So on the end of the spectrum, as you start putting this into practice, be aware of the things that you notice. Why do you notice Them and then like, build. Put that moment in slow motion and be like, oh, yeah. Actually, all these things were happening but before. So that's what the experienced storytellers do. If you're just getting started, Darren, you mentioned this. The founder's story is a great place to start. When did you. So here are a few questions you can ask yourself to uncover what might be one of your stories. And that is. And I discuss them, of course, in stories that stick. But one of them is, when did I first discover this and go all the way back? Like I did. I went all the way back to fifth grade, and that's when I discovered this. Or, mark, as you asked, what were some of the other stops on the journey? Each one of those stops, and of course, I have many, many more, could be an entire story in and of itself. I would also recommend, kind of to piggyback off of that is to think about firsts. The first time you've done any of the things that you do in your life that are relevant to what it is that you teach. So if you're a marketing expert, the first time you were moved by a piece of marketing, if you are someone talks about leadership, when was the first time you experienced the power of a great leader or the wrath of a bad one? Firsts are often emotionally charged. I'm thinking about the wrath of a bad one. And right away, even asking yourself that question. You can start like, I think back to when I worked at the Outback Steakhouse in New Mexico and my boss was a tyrant. And I could tell even right there, just asking myself, well, I'm asking you to ask yourself that question. But even me saying it out loud suddenly unlocks stories that I'm going, I can see the wallaby darn machines. And like, I'm right back at the Outback Steakhouse in New Mexico. So I think that's the most important thing. When you're thinking about your stories, people get really stressed out about it. They think they don't have any. I hear a lot. I have a bad memory. This has nothing to do with having them or not. You definitely have stories. And then in terms of the. You just haven't been given or equipped with the keys to unlocking them. They're all there. You just need that key. Those few of the questions that I just shared and the stories will start pouring out.

A couple things that I picked up from the book. Even though I've been studying this and doing this for 20 years, I'm hungry and eager for great teachers, not just for any one of them. That's why I even think back what you were just saying and how I felt when I was in the audience. When I first saw you go on stage, I felt like I was preparing to be bored. I was preparing to be. Here's the same stuff I've heard many, many times. And then boom. Which brings up my other question, one of the other insights I got from you that I loved. If you could share the three parts of the story, this part, that part, and the explosion.

Yep. So I learned this. This is the variation of what my storytelling mentor, Donald Davis articulated. So my ver is a little bit of a variation. The three parts of his story are. Instead of beginning, middle, end, which isn't necessarily wrong. It just doesn't help very much. Is normal explosion, new normal? And where people often go wrong is they start in the middle of the story with the thing that happened. Maybe not so much in for presentations. If you're an experienced presenter, this might be something that you're. You're already making progress on. But certainly saying, like in sales conversations where someone will say, well, we worked with such and such a client, so that was like, they hired us. So that could be the explosion, the thing that happened, or the decision that was made, or the action that was taken. And now they're doing this, this, this, this, and this great thing. And you're like, I don't care. Right. Because why? Like what? You don't. It doesn't. This is why we can watch the news without sobbing all night long. Because they go through the very. Now, they're not always actual explosions, but they go through all of the happenings very, very quickly. And it isn't until they. Maybe there's an expose or. That's why I think documentaries have become so popularized is because they go into that first part of the story, which is the normal. That's where we get to know the characters. That's where we feel the emotions. And in terms of strategic storytelling, and particularly in. That's where your audience is joining you, that's when they're being drawn into that. That's when they're starting to see themselves in this story. And make no mistake. And Donald always would say this. He would say in the normal, you can sense that trouble's coming, like something's going to happen. There is a happening on its way, but the natural human inclination to just become a part of the story takes over. So when that happening does happen, you're experiencing it like real time. And then because we started with the normal and then you take us to the explosion. What's possible in the new normal makes so much more sense. It seems so much more believable because we understand the starting point.

This sequence is really interesting because so many of us, you say we want to do the cold open, the Hollywood opening, where action takes place, but a proper setup can really draw the audience in and make them want to hear the story. And then we get a full context when the story runs its course. And there's so many different techniques to storytelling. And I don't want to pour fire, sorry, pour water on the idea of having a cold open with a dramatic start to a story, because it does have its place. What I'm hearing is there are ways you can tell stories differently to get the emotional connection and then get the audience drawn in. And I go back to what you said earlier. I'm going to paraphrase it with my own thinking. We need to have our antenna up to what's happening around us to help us to connect with the audience where they are so they can then relate and connect with our story. Now, many speakers, especially emerging speakers, we hear a phrase that can be intimidated. It's called your signature story, right? And you probably have heard it, Heard it, and you probably said it as well. Is there a simple way to define that and to encourage our, especially our newer speakers to not only define it, but defined it, hone it, and own it?

Yeah, I think that the. And what you said in the way that you said it, the signature story, it goes back to that pressure that we put on ourselves to have it be really big. Like, it has to be something big. And the most important thing, your signatures, like, I'm not. Here's. I'm not known for. Now, there are some speakers who are known for their stories, right? Like this is there. Like that is. That's there. I kind of feel like there are different types of speakers. There are some that they have a really big story, and that is. And so they have this signature story for me, for I think a lot of us, I'm not known. I'm not the. Like, Darren, you'd never call me, like, oh, the physics story girl, right? Like, that's not known for that. I am known for the. And for me, it's different, obviously, because it is about storytelling. But I am known for the content that I. I teach. And my stories, signature or otherwise, are tools that I use to teach that content. And so I think you should have an opening story. I believe that all presentations should open with a story for Several reasons. Number one, the audience wants to get to know you. You're the person standing in front of the room. And some people may be really excited that you're. Some people may be skeptical. Like, Darren, you said, like, oh, here she is. We're just going to hear the same thing over. And I know all of these things. I remember once I was sitting, I went to the bathroom after my keynote in just the bathroom that all the women were using. And I was in the stall. They didn't know I was in there. And the one woman was like, yeah. When she came out on stage, I didn't think I was going to like her. I was like, ooh, I don't know if I want to hear this rest of this. Right? And she said. But then she started telling the story about. And I can't. Whatever. Maybe it was the physics story she started and I, I realized, like, oh, I. That's exactly what high school was like for me or whatever. I know that there are. And it's not like I know that when I get on stage, there are people who are not going to like me for whatever reason. And it's not my job to make them like me, but it is my job to share through story, give them opportunity through my story to get to know me better. So maybe instead of a signature, I think for some people, maybe there is a signature story and they're known for that story. But if that has never really felt like it fit for you, be thinking about what is your opening story, the thing that A, allows the audience to get to know you, and B, as I mentioned earlier, preps them for the content that you're about to share. Beautiful.

My last question as we start winding down, because I want to honor your time and really thrilled I have learned so much from you. If you haven't, check out the book Stories that Stick. I'm an Audible fan. And Kendra has another one coming out we'll talk about in a couple minutes here. But when you are a presenter, you see a lot of other presenters because you're at the same convention and conference. What are some of the common mistakes that you see presenters make telling stories?

I think the biggest one is two that I'll share. Number one, when they're telling a story because they know it's a good one, but it doesn't actually do anything to enhance the message, but they know that maybe because it's funny or maybe because it's emotional or maybe whatever, they tell the story because it's. It's a good one. Now Maybe that's just me, maybe the audience doesn't notice, but I think that that is definitely one of the mistakes. And the other mistake is. So I went to that storytelling festival as a youth. I was a youth teller. I got to tell one story. But for the traditional storytellers, telling at the National Storytelling Festival in Jonesboro, Tennessee, is the greatest honor there ever was. And you can go a lifetime of telling stories for in schools and in services and all these things and never be invited to tell at the festival. So when I was in my mid-20s, I was invited to what they call the showcase, where they feature five up and coming storytellers. And it was kind of cool because I had told there when I was 18, and now here I was like a young adult, and the pressure was on. I got eight minutes. And basically it's understood that if you do well there. And at this point, I didn't know how to be a professor. I didn't know what my life was going to look like as a storyteller. I really only knew that there was this festival. And then if you tell at this festival, people hire you to come tell, I don't know, at their schools, I wasn't really sure. But the pressure was on to do well. And so I chose a story, and I practiced it, and I practiced it and I wrote it down and I memorized it, and I had every single word perfect. And I got up and I told the story, and I told it perfectly. I did not miss a word. It was exactly how I wanted it to be. And yet people were like, I failed. And afterwards, Donald, my mentor, was there, and I didn't even want to ask him because I was kind of hoping it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, because I could just tell it didn't go well. And he came up to me and said, well, you told the words, but you didn't tell the story. And as I've heard you talk about your experience in my audience, that now looking at that, you can see I learned that lesson. And now that I've told my story so many times, the words are pretty much the same, but there is a lot of room and presence so that they are alive and not recited. And if I see speakers make a mistake with their stories, it's that they tell the word, they get it perfect, and they tell, and the audience can feel that. So with stories, that's the beautiful thing about stories is they don't have to be perfect. And in fact, they're better if they're not. They're better if you're in the moment and it's a living, breathing thing instead of something you're reciting, writing off a piece of paper.

Wow, that is great. That is wonderful. I gotta get one last question for you about story and business. Should emails have stories in them? Is that too long?

No, you know what? I'll tell you. I had it happen once where I was trying to. And it ended up being a huge. It ended up being huge that I got the gig. So there, you know, how the story ends. But I was in the running as a keynote speaker. It was between me and another guy who talks about storytelling to be hired for this event. And I was on the sales call. You know how this. You're on the sales call with the client. And I told everything that I talk about and my experience and my da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And I got off that call and was like, I feel like I nailed it. And. And I didn't hear anything for a couple days. And so I just wrote her and said, hey, just wanted to follow up. I still have the date held for you. Why? Why you hired me. And she said. She wrote back and said, you know, we're still trying to make the decision. I feel like I just need something more. And I was like, oh, shoot. And I couldn't get on another call with her. Like, that wasn't. It was clear that I was supposed to send her an email back with whatever that something more was. And I was racking. I remember my son was home sick from preschool that day, so I was like, trying to toggle between him. And then all of a sudden, it hit me. My gosh, I am such a fool. So don't beat yourself up if you realize that you miss storytelling opportunities. Even the storyteller misses storytelling opportunities. I was like, the one thing I didn't do was tell her a story. So in my email, I wrote a very short story. But it was. I thought about that that potential client was asking herself about me. And they're basically asking, am I going to get what I need from my hour with you? Are the people in my audience going to get what they need? And so I knew what she needed was a story about a time a client like hers got what they needed out of my presentation. And it just so happened that recently I had had the day before, maybe even earlier that day, I'd had another call with a woman who had been in my audience and who gave me so I story of this woman who had been in my audience, what she Said to me on the phone, it was very short. I sent. It was. A story is very short. I sent it. And five minutes later she wrote back and said, all right, well, we're sending the contract over and it was a huge deal for me. It was a big. We've done multiple projects since. Yeah, I mean, email is a good time for a story.

So.

Well, I will confess real quickly. Go ahead now.

Just question to piggyback on that real quick. So in your email, and I know you said it was a shortened version, did you do the normal explosion, New normal?

Mm. I said something like some little introduction and said, actually I was on a phone. I was on a phone call yesterday with a woman who. And what I said, what the woman had said to me is exactly what you said to me, Darren. She's like, I've heard the storytelling shtick before. I was. She said, and this is where I use a specific detail that that woman was planning to use my presentation as the hour that she caught up on her emails. Wow. That's what she told me. And so I'm really grateful when people say those things to me. And this is, you know, this is outside of the realm. That becomes a great story. Right. And so then. So that was her. So I basically explained that woman's normal. The explosion was our time together and then the fact that we were even on a call afterwards of what had happened. So yep, it still followed. And if you think about it, that normal that I shared about the woman in my audience is very well aligned with the questions that my future client, potential client, was asking herself. Like, is this going to be the session where people think they're going to catch up on their emails? I'm not going to pay for that if that's the case. And so I answered the very question she was asking herself through the story.

Well, I'll confess as a loaded question, because 11 months ago, it's now May 2020. In June of 2020, I wrote an email that I tried to frame as a story. I'm going to change the first two words from in 1980 to once upon a time. Here's the email. Once upon a time, an 18 year old boy left his island home of Jamaica bound for New York with two suitcases in his hands, 40 bucks in his pocket and a dream in his heart. He had no idea that one day one person would inspire thousands with his story or that someday one person would inspire him with her story. Today, 40 years later, he invites her to share her story. Hey, Kendra, I'm Mark Brown, a pro speaker and speaking coach.

I feel like that sounds familiar.

Exactly. I tried to reach out to you with my story and your assistant said, hello, Mark, your story is awesome. And Kendra thinks so too. And she's underneath harder. But we have a scheduled issue. She'll get back to you later on. But I tried to reach out to you with your once upon a time 40, you know, and all that. You did it and you liked it. But hearing you talk about the story today, now I can use that technique but improve on that and that for on that format. And who knows, maybe one day I'll land some big gig and I'll say, hey, somebody who forgot my name named Kendra. She taught me how to do that.

Love it. Love it. Good work. Good work. You know, we don't get. We don't respond to everybody. I'm not surprised that Andrea got you back.

Well, thank you. My wife is Andrea too, so I really appreciate that. Aaron, if you're.

Well, if you're listening to this, you've got to check out stories that stick. Please, please, please. Because as you know, as the story my old normal waiting to hear Kendra, I was prepared to be. You know, I still thought, well, I'll get a tip or two. So I wasn't gonna do emails, but I was preparing to be under underwhelmed and please, like she lays it out. And I learned. I also. You reminded me of a technique that I had forgotten about when you're telling the stories to create that visualization of the character right up front and paint the picture. It's funny because I like teach that. And then I go back and I'm think listening to your audible and I'm like, I need to do that with this story. And I took a few more of my stories and overhauled them because even if you're a storyteller and it's part of what you do or you're a presenter, maybe it's time to look at your stories again and upgrade them now that you know more. But you really lay it out. I just thrilled to meet you and know you and I thank you so much for being here. And you also. I know we can't talk about the title yet, but you have another book coming and this was about for business how to. And the next one is about the inner.

So stories that stick was all about. Yeah, the stories that we tell outwardly, whether that's outwardly in our organizations or presentations or. And it's a lot of how to. But after, you know, of course I'm A whole storytelling is just all over my. It's what I. It's just who I am noticing that some of the most prevalent and persuasive stories are actually the stories we tell ourselves. There are stories that never see the light of day, per se, but they exist within us. And ultimately we get to choose. Within us are stories that can propel us forward, that are times where we did rise to the occasion or where we overcame something, or maybe where we even made a mistake, but learned something important. And then, of course, we all have stories where, you know, it was something bad happened to us or, you know, things that we regret or we beat our up about. But at the end of the day, in any given moment and in any area of our life, we get to choose what stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. And those choices of what stories we have on repeat are extremely important. And I would say, just to put it into context of the conversation we are having here. I used to have a really, really hard time speaking, even though I've been doing it my whole life, even though I know that this is what I was meant to do, even though I know all of these things logically. But in the hours, sometimes it would go on for days. In the hours, in the minutes before any given keynote, I was an absolute wreck. My stomach would be in knots. I would be just telling myself these stories of. They don't. At the high level, you don't know what you're talking about. They're not actually interested in this. You didn't do enough work to know what this audience really needs. And then beneath that were, you know, I had. Early in my career, I had a few events where I was still getting. I mean, they were free. I got paid with a chicken taco, you know, where I was testing my message and I was trying to figure out. But for whatever reason, those were the stories that were on repeat still subconsciously, but on the front of my subconscious mind as I'm about to walk on stage in front of 2,020, like, why would I be telling myself? And it was automatic. I didn't even notice that I was doing it, except that I was miserable. And I would get out on stage and I would have to realize all over again that I love what I do and that the message that I delivered, who wants to learn that over and over again? I wanted to quit my job as a speaker because I would be so miserable before my speeches. So I made a very specific decision to choose to tell myself very specific stories before I went out on stage. And they were stories of it wasn't just like, oh, remember that time where you got a standing ovation? Because even that wasn't good enough to, like, overcome the negative stories I was telling myself. So I told myself the story of the time that I got this stomach flu the morning before a huge sales keynote for a tech audience, which I'd never done before. It was 90 minutes instead of 60, and I was in the bathroom. Like, I had to shower twice. Okay, that may be too many details. I show up at the event, I'm like doing the sound check. I'm like, don't come near me. I am so sick. I had to run to an urgent care to get like anti nausea medication. And quick, come back. Before my keynote, the sound crew put a bucket off stage for me and had very strict instructions to cut the mic if I went over to the bucket. And I. I nailed it, right? And so I had to tell myself these stories of extreme circumstances where everything else was against me and yet I could still deliver. That was the only way. And then putting those stories on repeat, that I was able to overcome the fear the negative stories were creating for me. So in the book, we have a whole just like in stories that again, I don't want to be like, choose better stories to live a better life. And then not. And then have you be like, but, but how. So this book has a whole method on how to do that, how to find the stories. So it comes out January 2022. I'm super. It seems like a good time for that kind of book to come out. Super excited about it. So that's the next project.

All right, well, hey, Kendra, thanks for being here. Mark Brown, what do we have for keepers?

Keepers. There are so many. I love this one from. From her fifth grade time. Don't just fulfill the assignment. Tell the story. We all have moments that are stops on our story journey. Test your stories and ask, where can I use a story? Add energy, characters and emotion to your stories. Share your story for the benefit of your audience. Because your audience should see themselves in your story. Always ask, what story does this audience need to hear? And you must acknowledge the value in the little things that can make stories. How? Be continually aware what's going on around you. And to enhance your stories, put your moments in slow motion. How to do that?

That's good.

Precious. Find your firsts. They're great story sources. Always have an opening story so the audience can get to know you. And remember, your story prepares your audience for the content that you want them to Hear and don't forget, don't tell the words, tell the story. Story.

And Mark, I'm going to piggyback on that. Don't forget normal explosion, new normal. Whether it's a story you're telling in an email or telling on stage, take a look at the stories you're telling and are those basic elements there. What was life like that we can relate to or the customer, the client, potential client can relate to what happened. Boom. They learned about you, your story, your presentation, your book, whatever it was that was the explosion in their life. And then how are they different now because of that? Please go and check out Kendra Hall. Sign up for her newsletter or her her YouTube videos that come out her emails just like she is somebody. If you're serious about being unforgettable, you just gotta put Kendra hall in your top five. Kendra hall, thank you so much. Thrilled to have you here. Please, please, please go check it out. Get the book. Get her next book. Buy the book that she hasn't even thought of making yet. She will rock your world and help you be unforgettable.

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