EP. 98 COACHING RESULTS Denise Marek

Hey there, Mark Brown. We have never, ever, ever done an episode like this before, and Denise is the perfect person. Sometimes we get coached. We go through the coaching process, and it's enlightening. It shows us this new way to look at our own story. Yet it's what you do with the coaching. So, Mark Brown, I thought it would be really cool if we brought Denise back after the fact and see how the coaching affected not just her story, but maybe her writing. Where else did it permeate her life, Mark?

And I can't wait to hear this story. As you said, it's her first time doing this, but one of the beauties of doing a job well is getting to see the results. And today, we get the results firsthand from Denise herself. Let's do this, Darren.

All right.

Anyone can give a presentation. Few deliver unforgettable presentations. What's the difference? You're about to find out. Welcome to the unforgettable presentations podcasts with your hosts, world champion speakers, and coaches, Mark Brown.

Mark Brown, your life tells a story, and there's someone out there who needs to hear it.

And Darren Lacroix. And Darren Lacroix.

Stage time. Stage time. Stage time.

Ready for some powerful presentation? AHAs. Let's dive right in.

All right, Mark, so this is how this came about. I happened to be talking to Denise, getting her advice in another area, and she started telling me all the impact that the coaching had. What I love about Denise, which is rare, is the fact that she dove all into the coaching, and when she started listing all these things, and I was like, ooh, we need to do an episode about that. Mark, your opening thoughts.

Well, again, I'm thrilled because we don't always get to see the results of our coaching firsthand. So for us, it's a blessing. Yes. But our greater thrill is to share this with you, our listening and viewing audience. Let's do it, Darren.

All right. Let's welcome the woman who smiled too much. And for everyone, smiling is good. But go back. Mark, do you remember which episode it was?

Are you gonna make me look at that? Yeah, I'm gonna find it for you real quickly. Episode number 65.

From the number 65, if you're listening to this and you like what you hear, go back to 65, the actual live coaching. So, Denise, I don't know if anyone's ever told you you smile too much in your storytelling. And for everyone, she's got this amazing smile. It just melts you. However, in her storytelling, it was coming out at the wrong places. But Denise, welcome back. Thanks for coming and joining us again.

Oh, I'm super pumped to be here. I've got some stories to tell you about the results. It's. It's been remarkable, actually. As you know, I have finished writing my third book, and when the. I've had two different editors. It's quite a bit of a process. When you've written a book, you have editors go through it back and forth, and both editors have said, your stories are so good, I forgot I was working. Both of them said they'd get through a bunch of pages and then realize, oh, no, I'm supposed to be editing this. I have to go back. So in the coaching that you gave me, I actually changed how I tell stories, even in my writing, because there was something that happened. So I've been speaking for over 20 years, and sometimes people would say that I could be a little scripted at times, and I thought I didn't know how to get free from that. I didn't know if it meant I should stumble on my words more or pause or what. But you helped me to understand. I had the aha moment. I thought, oh, I understand what you're talking about. Instead of saying things like, so I was thinking, and I thought, and I said, just say it. Just tell what you were thinking. Explain it. I use sound effects more. Rather than saying, oh, I really fell down. I can say things like, oh, you know, it was just. Because sometimes, for lack of a better word, everybody knows how your day is if you go.

We got to add that to our coaching mark.

Yeah. How do you now, for those who are listening, that, again, you kind of have to see it for you to understand it. And if I know Darren, he'll also publish this episode on YouTube as well. We wouldn't give you the first part visually and not the second. So when you watch it, you know what really means when that time comes. Now, Denise, I want to. To dive a little deeper on what you just said. You said, I'll paraphrase in my Jamaican way of saying it. You said, you change the way you tell your stories and even the way you write. And you mentioned a specific. You said, rather than saying, I felt like you just say it, you use sound effects to give the audience the visual and the auditory of what actually took place. If we were to ask you specifically to delineate two or three ways in which you can, say, identify, I definitely changed my storytelling in these ways. What will one of those ways be?

Well, first of all, one of the things you had said is to really help the audience to see what you're saying, see the story. I think it was, it's better that they see something than. What's the Patricia Frick saying? You said it's better that the audience it's.

Oh, what does she say? She says it doesn't matter what you say. It only matters what the audience sees when you say it.

And they gotta see something. Yes.

Right. So when people go back and look at that episode, I think you said it was number 65. I talk about meeting with best selling author Nick Boothman for advice. And then I, in the story that I'd originally told you, I'd say, now some of you might know Nick. And then I just went on to tell the story and then I remember Mark said, but if you don't know Nick, let me tell you. And so now I have so much fun sharing this story with audiences because then I get to go back and relive it. So I describe Nick and I say he's a very tall, slender British fellow who kind of reminds me of a tall Hugh Grant. And he's got that posh British accent too. And so it's really fun to describe him. And I describe the restaurant that we're in. And what I'm finding in doing that is because some of my stories, I'm doing this with all of my stories because I've been doing this with some of my stories for years. They're kind of mundane to me now when I tell them. But now going back and setting the scene, I'm reliving it. And I'll give you another example. When you had mentioned it helps the audience if you let them get behind the wall, let them get behind the thinking to say what's going on. So, you know, one of my issues was I'm a big smiler. And so I would talk about that rejection. And so now one of the things I'll say is, and I think this was you, Darren, you say, oh, reject it again. Now I get it. And I can go back and I can experience that rejection. In fact, I did a sermon this Sunday. If anybody's interested in watching how the story evolves, they can watch your episode 65 and then watch the sermon I did on my YouTube channel at Denise Merrick. And it's called the God who Closes Doors. And you can, you can, you can see now and experience and feel the rejection. In fact, my daughter was watching Livestream and she said, mom, I thought you were going to cry two times. And it wasn't something that I tried to force. But I started to relive the stories myself again. And so, rather than just smiling all the way through it, I experienced it. And I have had people cheering more. I have had people crying. And it's just changing the way they experiencing. They're experiencing it. And again and again, I keep hearing people now say, you have the best stories. And I think they've always been the same stories, but now, because of the coaching, I'm telling it at such a higher level that honest to goodness, they're unforgettable.

Nice. Bam. Yeah. And I think, Mark, one of the principles that she said, I just want to make sure we're emphasizing it, is she. She's having more fun, which enhances the delivery. So if the deliverer, if the storyteller is having more fun, it's gonna come across in a much better way, much more memorable. And the fact that holding it up, what we're saying too, is what Denise said, if I rephrase it in different words, is she stopped acting and she started reliving it. And I think when a presenter can relive it now, it's not gestures, it's body language. It's not fake gestures. It's authentic feeling that's communicated and that's what the audience connects with. It's not the words. It's not the pretending to show an emotion. It's actually feeling that emotion and expressing it. Mark.

Yeah? Go ahead, please, go ahead.

I was just gonna say this one thing. And you know what? You're so right. It's not acting. Because I even let the audience know more about my personality, because I know that I will still smile too much at certain times, because that's just who I am. It takes a lot for me not to smile. And so now when I talk about Nick saying at one point in the story, for those who rewatch it, Nick said, it's a crap title. So he said the title of my book before it was published was a crap title. And when he said it, now I can share with the audience. When he said it on the outside, I looked like nothing was bothering me. I had this big smile on my face. I said, except to maybe a trained eye, maybe an FBI agent would be able to see the tiny little quiver at the corner of my smile. But then on the inside, I was thinking, oh, no, if it's a crap title, maybe the whole book is crap. Maybe it's a terrible idea. It's never going to happen. It's not just a crappy book. It's me. I'm terrible. So now I can let them behind so they can understand even more that, oh, she even smiles when she's feeling this way. So it's beautiful.

And what's interesting is one of my mark isms is don't give a speech, deliver an experience. And you've explained to us, Denise, that your audiences are now emotionally more invested. They feel what's going on, they're able to empathize with you. And I'm curious to know again a little bit deeper. How has the reliving the story becoming the characters? You say they're now unforgettable. You set the scenes, you give the audience a frame of reference, you relive the story, you use sound effects. How is that not only changing the way you deliver the stories, but how is it changing you as a presenter and as someone who delivers sermons and messages both in the secular world and in a faith based world? How has that changed you?

I think it's just really reminding me of the whole miracle of my life. So as I relive the stories, rework the stories and look for the magic, I think one of those things is you had said last time in the coaching, oh, don't tell us the magical moments. And so now I really started to look for those transitions, those really big aha moments. And then you can even just start to, even when you're not speaking, you just see more and more of them showing up in your own life and you think, wow, that is a significant part of the story. So I'll give you a for instance. And I know that mark you said when I talked about that I a mock cover of the book in order to get a publisher. And you said, I really want to see what that was, what I had created.

Right.

So this is actually what I had created on my computer. So this is the actual book from 2005. Here's an interesting part of the story. This book. So remember I had wrapped this around another book and this book is called Worry, Make Money. So I had made this mock cover and wrapped it around this book because I thought this will probably be the same size my book would be once I finished publishing it. Well, when my book was finally published, and here's what the copy came out as, I had the advance copies, 11 copies sitting on my kitchen counter and I said to myself, wait a minute, I think, I think this is the exact same size as that other book that I had been using as a visual, as a dream and sent to the literary agent. So this is it. I pulled this one off the shelf flipped it open and wouldn't you know, they both 223 pages and that's where they stopped numbering it. And this book where they stopped numbering it, 223 pages. These little things that maybe I hadn't said before in the stories are those big wow. Those big aha. And it was an aha for me as well. So.

Wow.

Now do me a favor. Stack those two together and show me the spines together. Remember there. Now that's one more visual. A little bit different in length but you can see. Yeah, that's really interesting. Wow. 223 pages. They're both the same.

Wow.

You tell that story now with the page number included, right?

I haven't yet because I was going to ask you how do I. I think last time you had said to show the book what I had created because you'd be interested. But part of me wondered and this is why everybody needs coaches even at a top level. It can help with any areas of self doubt because I have a little self doubt. Wondering is the imagination of the story I tell better than showing them this?

I think showing them the actual and making sure this is what Mark says so brilliantly. It's your story, but it's for us. It's your story but it's for us. So this is a check for everyone listening. Are you trying to tell it to make you look good or to get a principle across? So I think the fact that it's 223 pages and 223 pages is powerful. So if you're in a big venue and you can show a slide, I would put it on a slide and show this is what you actually did, this is what it turned into. And then have another slide showing the page number. Now you can hold up the book.

That's easier.

Yes, you can hold up the book. But in a bigger venue, like even in a small venue, they're not going to see it. If they're in the sixth row, they're not going to be able to see that. So I would have the actual book and the original visualization that you used because then people can say it's real. And what you're also teaching them is the end result might not look exactly the same. It's okay. It moved you forward. And then, oh, by the way, the inside was 223 pages. So you're confirming what you're talking about with some details, as we like to say.

Mark, I completely agree. I had the same thought. Use a slide to show 223223 moment but you said something else that I don't think you realize the power of what you just said. You said you are now looking at your life and seeing the magic moments around you, which suggests that was not part of your practice or your process prior to our coaching sessions. So herein lies the lesson for everyone. We all can experience moments in our lives. We have to be aware. Our antennae have to be up for when these moments come so we can share these moments and we can include the moments in our everyday conversation. But as a presenter, these moments are gold. For your stories, for your anecdotes, for your experiences. And here's the bonus. It is quite likely that someone in your audience at some point in time will have not only very similar experiences, but almost identical experiences. Will everyone know? However, when you acknowledge the moments and relive the stories well, what will happen is you will emotionally connect to similar experiences. Your audiences, broader will have similar emotions and that's how they will relate to the story. We can all relate to rejection. It may not be nine do's for a book proposal. We can all relate to waiting too long to make the right decision. Guilty. So look for the moments in your life in your stories. Don't stop. Find them and include them. That's a gem right there. That's a keeper.

The other thing you had suggested was a lot of times I would give a list. So I would say you might feel self doubt, you might feel afraid, you might feel this. But then you said to ask questions instead of listing it. And so now I have so much fun with that. So this past Sunday I said, have you experienced a closed door in your own life? Do you know the feeling of rejection? And so then rather than just going on and saying I felt rejection, I gave them some more questions so that they could dig deep and absorb for a moment. So I said, thinking about your entire life, have you ever applied for a credit card, a loan or a mortgage and got denied? Have you ever pursued a love interest only to find out that here she's just not that into you? So it's kind of fun to be able to play and ask questions, give them time to reflect before you move on so that they know where to apply my story to their lives?

Yeah, make sure. And I know we're just having a conversation, but make sure you give them longer than you're giving them right now. So I know we're just talking it through, but let them feel it. And also for those of you watching online or the YouTube version, make sure you're talking to one person over here with a complete thought and then you ask another question to another person for a complete thought. And if you have a third question now you. So you're not like machine gunning, you know, your eye contact, you're saying it to one person. One other thing that came up in your example there is the fact that you didn't notice some of the big transformational moments. People in your audience aren't. So I'm wondering if that could possibly. Your book could possibly be an example. Is that the moment you realize 223 pages. 223 pages. Wow. The work I did, the faith I had, what led me to this saying, you missed some of the own blessings in your life, getting us in the audience to look for them. So our job as presenters is to sometimes get the audience to see things, things in their own life that they didn't see, see the blessings in their own life that they missed. So when Denise, who gets the privilege of the platform, when she realizes she missed some of those things, you're going to help us to realize we missed some of those blessings.

I think that the coaching is so invaluable for people at any level because like you said, our stories, we tell them, but they're for the audience. No matter how high up you get, when you have the right coaches, if you're coachable, there's always room for improvement. You can always get better. I think coaches are so important.

You know, Darren, there's something else you mentioned earlier about finding these moments. There's something else that you acknowledged, Denise, during our last session. It was the power of having the space around the key points you make. The aha moments, the revelations, the questions, and also the key phrases. You had some very cute phrases that you used, you know, and the calm acronym in that particular presentation. If you have a point of wisdom you need to share, put some space around it so it's isolated, and that way it becomes that much more memorable. And I love when Darren had you make a statement, pause. Make a statement, pause. That space allows us to, one, absorb, but also two, reflect. And number three, I think the best part is it allows us to introspectively receive what you have said, especially when you turn some statements into questions. Perhaps you felt unworthy. Maybe you felt. Have you ever felt like you were unworthy, that you'd never ever make any progress, that you'd never ever be accepted in those spaces? You're asking a rhetorical question, but in our minds, we are trying to answer Those questions. And all of us have to understand when you ask the audience a question, you give them room. We have to give them room to process and respond to those questions. And, Darren, perhaps one day we'll do a short podcast episode on the questions that we create for the audience that we have to answer as well. So as you go over your presentation, Denise, you actually create some questions in the audience's mind as well. And you have to be careful to answer them clearly, succinctly, but in a way that it becomes memorable for them to answer. I'm so excited that you said, not only did you change how you deliver your presentations, it changed the way you write as well. And I really want to ask about that, but I want to make sure Darren has his questions or comments answered before I go a little more deeply into the writing piece as well.

Go for it. I have one question, but it's a different vein. So let's stick in this vein and we'll get to mine.

We're just kind of shooting the breeze here. We're talking about pausing and emotion and connecting and reliving stories. But you said it changed the way you tell your story, but also the way you write. Editor says, oh, I forgot. I'm supposed to be editing this. So a little more deep dive. Why do you think they were so caught up in the words you wrote? Because as presenters, we know you can write for the eye what is being read. We can write for the ear what is being heard. You seem to have cracked the code of being effective, both verbally and also in writing. So what do you think was the difference that caused the editors to say, wait, I forgot to edit. Story was so good. What do you think it was, Denise?

Well, one is letting them behind the wall. Letting them behind my thinking process. And my main editor, who's been working with me for over 15 years, she said that she notices now that when I put my thinking process, I put it in italics. So some of the other words in the book that I would use as emphasis, she put them in normal text because she said, I just want. I want the readers to understand that that's behind your thought process. And so that's all in italics now. So I noticed that it's a lot more of letting them in on those ahas of what's going on in my mind. Another thing is being very descriptive. So not only is Nick Boothman now a tall Hugh Grant, there's a story I tell about this sales lady when she was squeezing me into a dress, and basically, she almost had her foot on my back, and she was like, I can get you into this dress. And she. But, you know, I thought, people need to understand. I mean, this saleswoman was a character. She reminded me of Salma Hayek. So then when I. When I describe the sales. The sales lady as a Selma Hayek running around, and I give her more of her personality coming to life, it makes the story so much better. Hadn't thought of that before. And I use more. I really want to. It's about that setting the scene. So, like you said before, I've got great content, great material. It's very helpful. But now I really want to set the scene for them. So, for instance, when I talked about getting the book deal and how happy I was and that I was not even the time when I was in Disneyland, which I do describe being in Disneyland and Cinderella's castle, but I also described. Because I thought when I finally did get the book deal, I said as I was writing it, at one point, I was getting kind of tired during my writing, and I said I was as happy as. I'm like, ugh, I don't know how happy I was. I'm tired. And I'm like, you better know how happy. So I said, okay, think about it. How happy were you? And then I said, oh, I was as happy as Ted Lasso in that Apple TV show, Ted Lasso. When he said, I feel like I fell out of the lucky tree, hit every branch on the way down, and landed into a pool full of cash and Sour Patch Kids.

That's a point of reference right there.

That made me feel so happy, even just going, yes, that is how happy I felt. So as presenters and writers, when we're describing our story, it's very important to remember, if you're getting tired, take a break, but don't give up those opportunities to really describe the situation. Describe how happy you are. Let everyone, like you said, have those highs and lows with you. Bring them on the journey so they can't get that high unless I describe how high or again, how low. One of the things you were talking about in the last time we did coaching was when I'd say, oh, and I got rejected again. And then I'd have a big smile. One of my lines is the first time I said I'd submit my proposal, get rejected, submit my proposal, get rejected. But now I go through it and try to remember what it was like with years of rejection. So I. At the beginning. So I say, I'd submit my proposal, get rejected, submit my Proposal get rejected. My proposal get rejected because I started to talk slower, because I was feeling slower, and things are happening more slowly. So it's just all of these beautiful little details all coming together to form unforgettable storytelling.

Marker. A little baby is growing before our eyes.

I know. I mean, I see that. Darren, you need one of these.

Darren, I need a tease.

Any one of these. I'm so happy. The beauty of that is this. Real quickly. Darren, hold that thought. Yep. You just showed us, Denise, the regression in emotion from happy and bubbly. And it was done with the face. It was done with the shoulders. It was done with the pace. It was done with the pitch of the voice. I was waiting to hear Eeyore, you know, from Eeyore pickling Christopher Robin, you know, from Winnie the Pooh. But you showed us, and we could hear it in your voice. These are simple techniques where you. Where you magnify the impact by including all of those components. That's one massive change. And I give you two thumbs up.

And what I love, too, is we didn't just help you with that one story. We changed your trajectory of your storytelling. Yeah. Both writing and verbal, from the stage and online. And, like, that's the power of a great coach. That's what Mark did for me, and I'm thrilled that we get to now do it to help other people. And, Denise, one of the things that I really wanted you to explain when you told me behind the scenes what you were doing is you are so coachable. You know, some people, they want coaching, but then they're like, oh, that was awesome. And then they don't do anything with it. Explain a little bit about the process that you had told me about that you reviewed it before every time you presented. Tell us about that. What did you do? What's the Denise application or execution process?

Well, there was so much good information that you were both giving to me, and it was coming so fast. I was trying to take notes, but I wasn't able to, in that moment, absorb all of the goals. And then I watched it later, and I thought, oh, wow, I missed that point. I thought I understood what you were saying in that moment. Moment, But I actually had missed what you were saying until I listened again. And then before I. Before I tell that specific story, I listened to the podcast again because it's difficult to implement every single solitary suggestion the very next time. It's not as though you're going to get coached once, and then suddenly it's going to be perfect because there's so much information and decades of me saying things the way I had said them. So there was some unlearning to do, some learning to do, and I know that there's still more learning to do. In fact, I'm enjoying pausing more in presentations, but I know I could pause a whole lot more. You say three heartbeats. To me, three heartbeats feels like the entire hour when I'm up there. I do pause a little more, which is allowing me also to stop and enjoy myself. Nice. Because before I would get up and I would speak and it would be over in a flash, and it was just me going, and now I remember to pause, I can just breathe and be with the audience because I love my audiences. I love them, and I love being with them. And so it helps me to be there.

Nice. That's so important, because the joy that you have that you're creating that connection, you're taking the time to allow them to connect with you, and then you feel the joy even more. Mark?

Yeah, a little more drilling down. You said you. You reviewed. There was so much material coming in. Have you gone back and reviewed the podcast again? After giving two or three talks and saying, you know, there might be something else I may have missed and gone back to it? I'm curious.

I did. I went through. Because I told the story again on Sunday, and I went through it again. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I know there were other things because I was listening while I was out for a walk, and I thought, I should have brought a pen and paper with me so I could have been jotting those down. There was one other thing that you had said. And, you know, one thing I've often struggled with is I thought, okay, my message is great. The content's great. This is solid. I didn't see where I had room to really customize, but you gave me a great area to customize. And I'll tell you how it opened up the doors with my clients. So one of the things in telling the story is I ask when you're stuck, when you're faced with a closed door, ask yourself, what could I do? What could I read, and who could I ask? And you had said to me at the end, I could say, you heard what I did, you heard what I read, and explain that. And then you said, you heard what I read. How to write the perfect book proposal. But what is it that you need to read or reread? And so with those three questions, I now ask the event organizers, is there something in your industry that everybody knows. This is the thing you need to read and reread and you talk about it over and over again. Who is your go to person? So I said, you heard who I asked. I asked Nick. Who's your Nick? And here's how. I was opening up the doors not only for the customization, which is great, but also with the event organizer. Suddenly they're saying, oh, you know what? It used to be this person, but they retired and we don't go to this person yet. And here's the inside joke. And here's the inside joke here. And then they say, oh, you know what? I'm gonna think about it tonight. If there's any more inside jokes, I'll let you know. So I'm finding I'm building a better rapport with the event organizers. And then on stage, I'm able to be one of them because I'm like, you know what? I'm in on all of your inside jokes. And it's brilliant.

Nice, Nice. Again, you are the rare person who is really putting it to action. And my last question, Denise, would be, what would you tell somebody who is already comfortable and confident and they really want to make a deeper impact? What would you tell them about coaching or finding a coach?

I think one of the things is to ask yourself, why wouldn't you have a coach? What's stopping you? Because could it be what's stopping you is that you're afraid of opening yourself up to criticism? Is it stubbornness? Are you thinking, listen, I'm good enough?

I don't know anything about that, Mark Brown. I don't know anything about stubborn, says the Polack. Sorry. Go ahead, Denise.

I think the thing is, if you're not getting coached to ask yourself, why not? What's stopping you? Because what I've discovered is there's so much more growth available to you, and not only in terms of just making your presentations better. It makes you have a much more enjoyable time on stage. It freshens things. It freshens things up.

It's like it's brand new again, gets you excited again. And tell me if this is too strong. This is one statement that I always make. But I would love to hear you agree or disagree. And feel free to disagree. I always say there's two kinds of presenters. Those who see the value in a coach and those who will never, ever reach their full potential. What would you say to that?

Well, if you think about it, not even just in speaking, but to get to the Olympic level, what do you need a great coach? If you're on a top football team. You need a great coach. We all need great coaches to excel. And if you're not willing to say, you know what, there are some things I could learn and a coach could be helpful, will you reach that level? I'm not so sure.

You know, it's funny, I'm going to admit that this is a pearl of wisdom I got from Darren Lacroix. And he says, listen, if you are not coachable, there is no cure. Tiger woods has a coach. The great Usain Bolt had coaches. Everyone who excels at anything that they do, they have someone or other people who coach them and help to bring out the greatness within them. And I tell you, I have a wonderful coach, Patricia Fripp. She'll take my Mark Isms and tell me how to do them better. Right? And okay, fine. But no, I received that because I know from whence it cometh. From a source of somebody who's where I need to be. When I was competing, I went to David Brooks, who was the world champion in 1990. He was where I wanted to be. And Darren often tells a story that when he and I, he forced to for me 20 years ago to work with him. He had a coach. But his coach, the late great David McElhinney, did a very wise thing. He said, darren, I need you to meet Martin Brown. He's a world champion. I've gone to level five of six. I have not been to the world championships. And I cannot take you where I have never been. I cannot take you where I've never been. So he was a coach who understood his own limitations. But as a coach, he wanted to see Darren reach his full potential. And Darren was willing to do what was, what was necessary at the time, before he became stubborn and it. But he saw the value. And coaches also see the value of getting coached and being coached ourselves as well. So we really appreciate what you have shared with us as your perspective of the value of a coach. And I'm glad you're pointing out to people that we all need coaches to continue to grow and excel. And here's my thought. Personally, I said this for decades. When I stopped learning, I stopped living. Your comment, Denise.

I just wanted to make one. I didn't want to forget this part. So during the coaching, the most unusual, miraculous thing had occurred. So we were talking about the length of time that I was holding on too long. Do you remember that? I was holding on to the literary agent who was no longer trying to find a publisher for me.

Right. Dr. Phillips agent. Right.

Darren throws. He says, listen, listen. Use a number so that people can say, don't just say too long. Tell them how long he said, maybe 11 months and 13 days. If that's true, he says, okay, so I dug out the letters of when I got the rejection letter from or well, it was a rejection letter. He just said I was unsuccessful in finding a home for your project. I'd love to work with you on something in the future. Keep me posted until the day I actually let him go, which was a termination of the author agent agreement. And it was 11 months and 13 days. That's 365 possibilities. You picked the one right on.

One of those.

Revelation. That's amazing. Wow.

Thank you for bringing that up. That's crazy. If you guys are listening to this podcast and you're not a believer, I'm just suggesting maybe it is true.

That is fantastic. That is really great to hear. Thank you.

And as we start to wrap this up now, if you're listening to this, if you are serious about getting to that untapped level, finding those untapped stories, taking the stories you already have and making them so good, someone believes they're unforgettable, wants to pay you for it, go to getaspeakingcoach.com you can work with Mark one on one or if you want to say take another route and get some feedback from some world class coaches. But say maybe you financially can't handle one on one. Join us masteringpublicspeaking.com Join us inside a stage time. We'll give you a path to go on as well as we have weekly coaching calls where just for $47 a month you can get some some world class feedback and we will take you to places that you'd never be able to go on your own. So check that out. Either getaspeakingcoach.com or mastering public Speaking. And Denise, if somebody wants to reach out and just hears, okay, they don't even have to see it, but hears that smile and wants to connect with you because calm is your superpower. That's the name of her upcoming book is Calm. Correct. So tell us your upcoming book as well as how can people connect with you?

Well, the third book that's coming out is specifically for moms who worry. So it's called Calm for Moms. And if you'd like to watch presentations, you can see, you can see that on my YouTube channel at Denise Merrick or you can go to my website@denisemerick.com Nice.

That's D E N I S E M A R E K correct?

Yes.

D E N I S E M a r e k.com thank you so much, so much, Denise for being willing to have us work with you as we have. And this, you know, the follow up, the coaching results, this is again brand new for us. It's very encouraging, it's certainly entertaining and enlightening. And here's the best part I want everyone to catch is a nugget I received that Denise said she realizes now the process of being able to see her talks differently. Finding those magic moments using the tools she has learned are tools she will now use going forward for all her presentations and all her books. When you find the gold, don't use them just once. Continue to make this a part of your practice so you can go from good to great to unforgettable. Darren, take us home.

All right, so Denise, any final bit of advice? If there was a speaker, storyteller, writer sitting across from you having a cup of coffee, what's one Tim Hortons? What's one one thing that you would tell them?

I would say everyone has a story and you really can tell it in an unforgettable way. Sometimes you just need a little bit of help to pull out those nuggets.

Denise Merrick, thanks for joining us. Thanks for just being willing to sit down with us and let us know what you did and how it's affected your writing and your speaking. Denise Merrick, you are unforgettable.

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